wanda’s warping is faster than thanos’ use of the glove. to add to that wanda also knows how dangerous the stones are. wanda starts the fight by saying “what hand” and the gauntlet is gone….the end
wanda wins, although without them having met each other the winner would be whoever strikes first
Does her reality warping work on high tiers? We have seen more durable characters have higher resistance to reality manipulation. An example would be how Thor no sold the Reality Stone’s powers point blank. Another example would be how Thanos was basically immune to all of Dr Strange’s attacks.
Even ignoring that, MOM Wanda is a walking Infinity guantlet and rivals the potential use of the stones itself and not just Thanos' application.
She can replicate/counter everything Thanos ever showed with the reality stone with her own warping powers
She can not only stop but rewind time too so Thanos has no advantage with the time stone at all.
If anything, the mind stone would just be a defensive tool for Thanos as he doesn't have any offensive feat with it and even then it's hard to tell if he can properly utilize it against a mind manipulator of Wanda's current level.
The Space and power stones effects on Thanos can also be handled and replicated by wanda like enhanced durability, teleportation, powered attacks e.t.c.
I would say Thanos should win based on potential of the stones together but Wanda should win based on Thanos stats and application of It ( although we haven't even seen Wanda's full potential too).
Ill even say by intent that Wanda is likely even more powerful than the stones itself since Wong stated that she could rewrite reality if she chooses or destroy the cosmos. Her destroying every darkhold in multiverse is a much better range feat than the IG.
Wanda has TP, reality warping, TK, energy absorption, and other hax to pull some wins here.
@darkrealm: Statements without proof are meaningless. She's not Multiversal without feats to back it up. And her current ones are barely planetary.
I'm not denying Wanda is powerful. But saying she's gonna win against Thanos via TP isn't enough. Because he was barley held in place by Mantis, who could put Ego, a giant planet, to sleep. And yet she was screaming and heavily struggling to keep him subdued.
Wanda’s telepathic abilities are yet to be proven to be God-tier. Her stomping the featless fodder that was MoM Xavier isn't enough to say she wins with TP GG, here.
reality warping,
Same as Thanos. And unlike her. He actually uses it in alot of his fight when In-Character. The only people Wanda reality warped were BB, who got his only power exposed by Reed. And the latter, who is featless.
It's important to mind that she was Bloodlusted during that whole encounter. And even taunted Reed before killing them. But she fought Carter, who scales MASSIVELY below other characters, who also scale below Base Thanos. And Maria. Who is now thanks to the new info, unironically a sub-statue level character. She didn't warp them and instead fought them when she was at a disadvantage (her being heavily nerfed due to being in the alternate body.) But it still didn't seem to affect her reality warping. Since she did it casually to BB a few seconds ago.
TK, energy absorption,
Things the stones can easily counter. And Thanos is the best at using them.
and other hax to pull some wins here.
Such as? Cause what you listed above was her entire arsenal in MoM and every other appearance (and her draining the fodder Maria quickly, doesn't mean she can do the same here.)
And we have no idea whether her h2h skills got any better ever since either last time she met Thanos in EG. (who pushed her down on one knee when he was nothing but a brick with no versatility. And she only managed to get him off of her with a TK blast that broke his weapon and staggered him. Which is impressive considering how very little things phase Base Thanos.) And the Wanda he fought is definitely >>> the one that fought Maria & Carter due to a HUGE difference in performance + the already mentioned nerf.
Statements without proof are meaningless. She's not Multiversal without feats to back it up. And her current ones are barely planetary.
I'm not saying she's multiversal in power but range her destroying every darkhold in every universe is a multiversal ranged feat. Wanda has:
She sent demons throughout the Multiverse to acquire America Chaves powers which requires Multiversal range to do this.
She's able to view through universes and control her variants across the Multiverse which requires Multiversal range
Wanda destroyed the Darkhold in every universe which is a feat that nobody in the Mcu has been able to replicate
Able to hear her children from another universe.
It's important to mind that she was Bloodlusted during that whole encounter. And even taunted Reed before killing them. But she fought Carter, who scales MASSIVELY below other characters, who also scale below Base Thanos. And Maria. Who is now thanks to the new info, unironically a sub-statue level character. She didn't warp them and instead fought them when she was at a disadvantage (her being heavily nerfed due to being in the alternate body.) But it still didn't seem to affect her reality warping. Since she did it casually to BB a few seconds ago.
A toned down version of Wanda was able to instantly warp away Black bolts mouth with a thought. Thanos would have to close his fist in order to replicate what Wanda did and she draws her magic much faster than Thanos can.
Things the stones can easily counter. And Thanos is the best at using them.
Stones aren't countering her TK she could either restrain him or stop him from closing his fist which he doesn't have a counter for. Wanda back in IW was able to blast Thanos while preoccupied destroying the mind stone. Seems to me Thanos had nothing else to do but resort to use the space stone to shield himself from the blast. Plus she has auto shields (possibly passive shields) that could take anything anything Thanos can throw at he. I think you also forgot she can stay in the air and while continuously attacking Thanos leaving him at the disadvantage.
I'm not saying she's multiversal in power but range her destroying every darkhold in every universe is a multiversal ranged feat.
That's a statement made by Strange after he seees the darkhold burning. It's not proof. And is contradicted by this:
So, no. She only destroyed 2 Darkholds. Maybe 3 of them. There's no proof that she destroyed every one of them. Other than a remark from a Strange who has no way to know that in the first place. Nor confirm it.
She sent demons throughout the Multiverse to acquire America Chaves powers which requires Multiversal range to do this.
Then what was the point of her wanting America? She doesn't have Multiversal range, just because she sent demons to one or two universes. Even Ultimate Scarlett Witch did that, when she pulled two Squadron Supremes. And she doesn't have the Darkhold or anything.
She's able to view through universes and control her variants across the Multiverse which requires Multiversal range
So Strange has Miltiversal range as well? No. It was a dream-walking spell that allowed it. It's literally explained in the movie as the reason she can posses her alts. Just like Strange did. And that's why she calls him a hypocrite.
Wanda destroyed the Darkhold in every universe which is a feat that nobody in the Mcu has been able to replicate
First, see the above. Second, no one in the MCU could replicate it, because no one has the power (other than Thanos with IG who is universal, and other high-tiers that scale above Wanda) or even knew about it in the first place. This is a moot point to bring up.
Able to hear her children from another universe.
That was in her Astral form, mate.
Wanda being Multiversal requires is a reach. The best reality warping feat was her town level dome during WandaVision. Also, Thanos has TK of his own with the Gauntlet as demonstrated when he pulls gigantic pieces of Titan's moon, and makes it hit the ground at an insane speed.
Saying he has no counter to anything Wanda does is a lie. He can do everything she does and won't hesitate to reality warp from the start. Unlike Wanda, who only did it on two featless fodder.
So, no. She only destroyed 2 Darkholds. Maybe 3 of them. There's no proof that she destroyed everyone of them. Other than a remark from a Strange who has no way to know that in the first place.
This is literally headcanon it was explicitly stated that she destroyed every darkhold in the universe and until you can provide proof that she didn't your point remains moot.
Wanda being Multiversal requires is a reach. The best reality warping feat was her town level dome during WandaVision. Also, Thanos has TK of his own with the Gauntlet as demonstrated when he pulls gigantic pieces of Titan's moon, and makes it hit the ground at an insane speed.
I already provided feats of her multiversal feats it's just denial at this point. Your grasping at straws and using mental gymnastics to discredit her feats when it was explicitly stated in the film that she destroyed every darkhold in the universe. I'm not sure why you brought a comic cover, even if she destroyed 1 or 2 her powers still extended to the other universe.
Saying he has no counter to anything Wanda does is a lie. He can do everything she does and won't hesitate to reality warp from the start. Unlike Wanda, who only did it on two featless fodder.
She still has shown to reality warp and you can't provide proof that Thanos could resist her reality warping and neither has she shown to resist reality warping but she's able to do it with a thought. Wanda has knowledge of the IG no reason why she wouldn't warp it away like she did to Strange's ring that allows him to teleport across the multiverse. If Thanos could reality warp more than she can why would he need to resort to a shield attack instead of outright warping her beam or utilizing the other stones to counter it? He wouldn't waste his time blocking a weak blast.
Let's also not ignore the fact that Wanda could do this which is a perfect counter for geared equipped characters.
Saying he has no counter to anything Wanda does is a lie. He can do everything she does and won't hesitate to reality warp from the start. Unlike Wanda, who only did it on two featless fodder.
She draws her draws her magic much quicker than Thanos can. She already has shown to restrain his entire body, and like I've previously said if Wanda has prior knowledge on the gauntlet she could either prevent him from snapping or take it away from him. Still can't get past her auto shields. If he can resist her TK than I'll gladly concede this point. I'll gladly waiting for you to show thanos has a counter for the following: Reality Warping, TK, auto shields (Plus she can stay in the air attacking leaving thanos to do nothing but block).
This is literally headcanon it was explicitly stated that she destroyed every darkhold in the universe and until you can provide proof that she didn't your point remains moot.
Burh. The only evidence that Wanda destroyed every Darlhold in existence is Strange's remark after seeing Sinister Strange's Darkhold burn. So, unless you're gonna say that Strange is Omnipotent or something to know this, you have no proof other than a baseless statement. And I already provided evidence by using the Darkhold 2021 run. Which contradicts every universe's Darkhold being destroyed.
I already provided feats of her multiversal feats it's just denial at this point. Your grasping at straws and using mental gymnastics to discredit her feats when it was explicitly stated in the film that she destroyed every darkhold in the universe. I'm not sure why you brought a comic cover, even if she destroyed 1 or 2 her powers still extended to the other universe.
I'm using mental gymnastics? Lmao. You're the one who ignored a well known, recent Marvel run that almost every 616 Wanda fan knows about at this point. That shits on the idea that she destroyed every Darkhold (which is, again. Stated by a Strange who has no right to even say that. Other than seeing another Darkhold burn.)
As well as ignoring most of my other arguments that counters Wanda having multiversal range. Such as, my example of Ultimate Wanda pulling in many people from different Squadron Supremes + Halving their Power-levels. Equally.
But just in case you miss it:
Gallery
She brings them in and halves all of their stats. And that includes the likes of Hyperion. A PLANET BUSTER by her own will. And she did that with her regular powers. No amps at all. So, using your logic, does she have multiversal range as well? Yes or no.
She still has shown to reality warp
Against 2 fodder who have no reaction or speed feats that puts them above bullet timers. Good for her. Acting as if she can do it as easily to Thanos is the real display of mental gymnastics here.
and you can't provide proof that Thanos could resist her reality warping and neither has she shown to resist reality warping but she's able to do it with a thought.
The reality stone goes BRRRR!!!
Also, the fact that Thanos has consistently used the reality stone on multiple occasions. Reality warping isn't an auto win button, when the person you're fighting can do it on an equal, or greater scale (He made the entiretyof Knowhere look different than it actually is. And Knower is the head of a Celestial. So this feat >> Wanda's Hex.)
Plus the fact that Thanos with the IG is undeniably Universal. While Wanda hasn't shown anything above city level without the Darkhold.
Wanda has knowledge of the IG no reason why she wouldn't warp it away like she did to Strange's ring
Cause Strange is = to Thanos. Am I right? Lmao. The dude barely kept up with a holding back Thanos during Infinity War. This comparison is what's considered mental gymnastics/NLF
Also, her knowing about Thanos goes both ways. You're making the assumption that Thanos doesn't get any info about her here. Or doesn't have any in the first place.
If Thanos could reality warp more than she can why would he need to resort to a shield attack instead of outright warping her beam or utilizing the other stones to counter it? He wouldn't waste his time blocking a weak blast.
He used the Space Stone (as shown by the blue light from his shield.) to block and merely pushed forward with his own strength. You also have to consider that Thanos at that point wasn't in a hurry, because he got the time stone. And after Wanda destroyed the Mind Stone. He merely comforts her before casually turning back time and pimp-slapping her away when she spoke up.
But it's easy to ignore context when you're grasping at straws to lowball a high-tier who has Universal-level erasure that he can use twice. And still stay alive.
Let's also not ignore the fact that Wanda could do this which is a perfect counter for geared equipped characters.
Yes. Because Strange was obviously ready for this and had counters to such a thing. Right? He also has amazing reaction speed on the level of a going all-out Thanos to not allow this. Right?
But if you wanna go there. There's nothing stopping Thanos from snapping and ending her. Since his only goal here is to kill her. And unlike Wanda. Who relies heavily on statments for Multiversal level of power or range of whatever. Thanos has actual feats. And his erasure is Universal-level.
She draws her draws her magic much quicker than Thanos can.
Proof? Thanos has reacted to characters who are superior to the likes of America Chavez. In both combat and reaction speed. And Chavez managed to punch Wanda before she can react. Unless you're gonna argue that like miss America is above Tony, Thor, and Worthy Cap. I'd like for you to explain why she managed to punch Wanda multiple times before she stopped her.
God, I love the lowball game.
She already has shown to restrain his entire body
She only did that when he was a brick with 0 versatility. This situation is completely different. Also, she didn't do that from the get go. Only after she fought him and he pressured her to break his Uru sword.
And everyone can clearly see that Thanos kept up well in the fight and her blasts did nothing more than annoy him(skip to 0:47) And he then managed to press Wanda and force her down on one knee. Until she used a TK blast to break and send his Uru sword (which speaks about how powerful that TK blast was. Since we see he was pushed back by it.) flying when he was pressing her TK with brute strength alone (Skip to 1:22):
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And the Wanda he fought us >>>> the nerfed Wanda from the Illuminati fight. From her performance alone. Plus the fact that she isn't heavily nerfed with an alternative body. And she was also Bloodlusted here and fresh from Vision's death.
and like I've previously said if Wanda has prior knowledge on the gauntlet she could either prevent him from snapping or take it away from him.
And like I previously said. It's easier said than done. This Thanos has reacted to characters that are superior to America, Strange, the Illuminati in reaction and combat speed. As an example. He threw his sword faster than Carol's Captain Marvel could reach the van. Which speaks about how high reaction and movement speed is. And he was only stopped from snapping by Carol coming in clutch the first time. And Tony stealing the stones via his nanotech suit. Which Thanos wasn't expecting to happen.
You only look at only one side and ignore everything the other has done.
Still can't get past her auto shields.
You're right. Chavez & Souls of the damned >>> Infinity Gauntlet. I kneel.
If he can resist her TK than I'll gladly concede this point. I'll gladly waiting for you to show thanos has a counter for the following: Reality Warping, TK, auto shields (Plus she can stay in the air attacking leaving thanos to do nothing but block).
See the above. But just in case you're gonna ignore it like you did the Ultimate Scarlett Witch example. She didn't do that from the start. And she only caught him in a TK grip that covered HIS WHOLE BODY when he was staggered and was a brick with 0 versatility. But we can clearly see him move his body parts even in the gif you posted. Don't see why he can't snap even in that position. Or use his own, superior TK (pulling down giant pieces of a Moon in seconds level of strong.) With the Reality Stone.
So far, everyone can see that you have ignored some evidence that pokes giant holes in your "Multiversal range" logic. As well as her destroying every Darkhold in every universe. Which relies on a statement from a Strange who has no way to confirm such a thing. Other than seeing one Darkhold burn. (Which is the reason he made that remark in the first place.)
Wasn't the dark hold not enough for Strange to beat Thanos on titan even with the illuminati as back up? I don't see how it is bringing Wanda to just above base Thanos to above him with 5 stones.
Burh. The only evidence that Wanda destroyed every Darlhold in existence is Strange's remark after seeing Sinister Strange's Darkhold burn. So, unless you're gonna say that Strange is Omnipotent or something to know this, you have no proof other than a baseless statement. And I already provided evidence by using the Darkhold 2021 run. Which contradicts every universe's Darkhold being destroyed.
So again moot point even if she destroyed 1 or 2 darkholds her range is still at the bare minimum universal on par with the IG. They wouldn't add pointless lines to the film if she didn't destroy every darkhold in the universe and I'm pretty this point was already addressed by the studio somewhere I have to find the quote. The comics don't usually correlate to eachother. The darkhold is set up for each universe for Wanda to become the Scarlet witch so no reason why she wouldn't be able to destroy every darkhold in the universe. If her powers are enough to extend to one universe to destroy a darkhold it wouldn't make any sense if she can't be able to extend her powers to other universes to destroy the darkhold.
I'm using mental gymnastics? Lmao. You're the one who ignored a well known, recent Marvel run that almost every 616 Wanda fan knows about at this point. That shits on the idea that she destroyed every Darkhold (which is, again. Stated by a Strange who has no right to even say that. Other than seeing another Darkhold burn.)
I could frankly careless about that comic issue or whatever were discussing the mcu stay on topic.
Also, the fact that Thanos has consistently used the reality stone on multiple occasions. Reality warping isn't an auto win button, when the person you're fighting can do it on an equal, or greater scale (He made the entiretyof Knowhere look different than it actually is. And Knower is the head of a Celestial. So this feat >> Wanda's Hex.)
Not combat applicable. Wanda already displayed the same feat at her orchard the same fashion Thanos did it in.
Against 2 fodder who have no reaction or speed feats that puts them above bullet timers. Good for her. Acting as if she can do it as easily to Thanos is the real display of mental gymnastics here.
She still used it against someone and saying she won't use it against Thanos doesn't make sense if Wanda already knows what the stones are capable of. Instead of you providing me a feat of Thanos resisting reality warping you decided to say she used her reality warping against fodders. Which the same thing can be said against Thanos because who did reality warp again?
He used the Space Stone (as shown by the blue light from his shield.) to block and merely pushed forward with his own strength. You also have to consider that Thanos at that point wasn't in a hurry, because he got the time stone. And after Wanda destroyed the Mind Stone. He merely comforts her before casually turning back time and pimp-slapping her away when she spoke up.
No, he used the space stone because he had no other way to bypass her magic.
e. There's nothing stopping Thanos from snapping and ending her. Since his only goal here is to kill her. And unlike Wanda. Who relies heavily on statments for Multiversal level of power or range of whatever. Thanos has actual feats. And his erasure is Universal-level
She did destroy the darkhold in every univers that would lack the motive of her destroying the temple if she were to only destroy 1 or 2 darkholds. The point of that was for her to free everyone from the corruption and toll the darkhold has on the user. Op states that Thanos only has 5 stones here which he will be unable to snap here. We could say the same thing for Thanos. How many people did Thanos erase again? Writer states that it's up to people's interpretations if she died not her destroying the darkhold.
Proof? Thanos has reacted to characters who are superior to the likes of America Chavez. In both combat and reaction speed. And Chavez managed to punch Wanda before she can react. Unless you're gonna argue that like miss America is above Tony, Thor, and Worthy Cap. I'd like for you to explain why she managed to punch Wanda multiple times before she stopped her.
Wanda has already consistently reacted to Maria's Photon blast that are relatively comparable to that of Carol's. Plus it's already stated that Wanda can draw her magic with thought and doesn't need extra hand gestures like Strange for example. Chavez punching Wanda was show that she can't beat Wanda and even states this later on. Wanda was merely toying with her we can clearly notice this as Wanda starts to take it seriously as Chavez was about to punch her down the cliff.
And like I previously said. It's easier said than done. This Thanos has reacted to characters that are superior to America, Strange, the Illuminati in reaction and combat speed. As an example. He threw his sword faster than Carol's Captain Marvel could reach the van. Which speaks about how high reaction and movement speed is. And he was only stopped from snapping by Carol coming in clutch the first time. And Tony stealing the stones via his nanotech suit. Which Thanos wasn't expecting to happen.
You'd have to calculate that. Carol isn't moving fast there at all.
Anyway back on Topic. How does Thanos win here? She has a shield that disperses nothing but red magic. TK that's already a huge counter for him I just don't see Thanos winning this at all. And you haven't really convinced at all in this debate on how Thanos wins. Wanda has TK to prevent him from snapping, Shields to protect her from any attack Thanos throws at her, and energy absorption.
Don't see why he can't snap even in that position. Or use his own, superior TK (pulling down giant pieces of a Moon in seconds level of strong.) With the Reality Stone.
Strange prevented him from closing his glove a few times. So Wanda could also do this if she knows how much of a threat the gauntlet is.
I'll be willing to cav this since you dipped out of the last CaV.
That statement IS cannon and im fact if she only destroyed two or three they would have said so not all..
What statment? Strange's? Are you seriously using the words of a guy who knows very little about the Multiverse as evidence? Is Strange Omnipotent or something? How the hell are we gonna tale his words seriously, when the only proof he had is seeing Sinister's Darkhold burning. Also, if Wanda has Multiversal-range, the entirety of the movie would've been pointless. Since why would she bother going into the body of a variant, when she could've negged Strange from a universe away, when he had no way to defend, or know about it. It's too absurd to be considered a legit feat. How do you think other characters who earned the status of a Multiversal-threat did so? Surely no through the words of a guy who has almost close to 0 knowledge about the Multiverse.
also you are using Comic scans to counter MCU thread that doesn't work here mate totally different...
Actually, it does. Cause the MCU isn't Earth-616 as some believe. In the Offical Handbook of the Marvel Universe. The MCU Has been officially designated as Earth-199999:
And it's not the only universe that was given an official number here. Multiple other universe were also finally given official designations in this Handbook. Such as, Invincible Iron-Man TAS. Along with other Universes that had official crossovers with the real 616. Such as Earth-90715.
The MCU having it's own Multiverse is nothing but Fanfiction by people who unironically believe Mysterio, Christine (A scientist who admitted to giving every universe a number by herself. So she's not as experienced about the Multiverse as some believe.) And the MCU TVA, a group that we learn by the end of Loki, has multiple versions that don't even know about the existence of each other or the events that happen to their alternates, as credible sources.
The MCU is in the same multiverse as the 616. Same goes for all these other worlds. Heck, we even have TAS & PS4 Spider-Man appearing and helping during Spider-Geddon and even interacting with other spiders:
This is all Canon, by the way.
So comics isn't limited to a comic only multiverse as some falsely believe. And If anyone disagrees. Please provide evidence.
I'm not denying Wanda is powerful. But saying she's gonna win against Thanos via TP isn't enough. Because he was barley held in place by Mantis, who could put Ego, a giant planet, to sleep. And yet she was screaming and heavily struggling to keep him subdued.
Wanda’s telepathic abilities are yet to be proven to be God-tier. Her stomping the featless fodder that was MoM Xavier isn't enough to say she wins with TP GG, here.
Thanos’ only Mental Manipulation/Resistance feat was resisting Mantis, and while yes that’s impressive, it’s disingenuous to compare Wanda and Mantis. They’re on entirely separate tiers and even then Mantis had Thanos nearly docile until Star-Lord made her break contact.
Firstly, Mantis is an Empath, Wanda is a Telepath and has a far more varied assortment of ways to manipulate the mind scape. Mantis has really only shown Emotion manipulation and sleep (awake) inducement.
Wanda has:
Age of Ultron
Successfully ambushes 5/6 Avengers to induce their worst fears, she also sees their dreams (Dream manipulation)
Severs the telepathic hold the Mind Stone had on Cho (Cancels out another power)
Forced 10s-100s of Sokovians to evacuate (Mind control)
Read Ultron’s mind when he was transferring his consciousness into Vision (Mind reading)
Sensed Pietro’s death (Sensing)
WandaVision
Passively mind controls the entirety of (at least whatever her Hex encapsulated) of Westview for days.
Gets into Agatha’s (who had TP resistance) dream and interacts with the world
After becoming the Scarlet Witch she imprisons Agatha, making her believe she’s actually Agnes, the character she played in WandaVision. (First instance of beating an established TP user and mind controller)
Multiverse of Madness
Is able to view, see, and hear throughout the multiverse
Dreamwalks and overtakes 838 Wanda’s mind. (An already city level telepath by AoU power levels)
In 838’s body (Who is Weaker than mainline Wanda)
Kills a Charles Xavier variant (in practically every iteration he is planetary level Telepath. It’s consistent with the Intent and status of the character)
Easily controls America’s powers by TP’ing and opens portals with no issue
America is an anomaly btw. She’s the only one of herself to exist in all multiverses. Her powers are completely unique to her and she exhibited mastery through someone else’s powers just using her own telepathy.
Should also be noted that Wanda killed Xavier while dreamwalking (her focus was already split with controlling 838 Wanda)
So, that’s ample uses of her TP, and 3 established TP users she beat in the Mindscape. Wanda wins on the basis of TP alone. Thanos has no defense for it. Even if that doesn’t work, she has multiple other ways to win. She’s a living IG herself. “What gauntlet?”
@angeljax: Dude Yes We take Strange iat his word that's the point.....
Multiverse Was not only referenced A million times in several movies it was shown So not matter how you try to deny it It Exist...
Just because you say so doesn't change the facts. YOU have to prove it doesn't exist and not Your conic scans bot MCI related don't count bot sure way you can't see that Lol.
We will Not agree there So Ill end it with a good day
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