Thanos (Endgame) vs Captain Marvel (MCU)

When she was draining power of the gauntlet. Otherwise not.

He had to win the fight for the gauntlet first and CM had it in her hands and lost it.

Yes Captain Marvel failed her mission and even with Thor and Iron mans help she wasn't able to get the gauntlet back.

To use the opponents momentum against themselves is legit. Never heard from Judo or Aikido? Anyway, Captain Marvel had the gauntlet and one job: To protect it, she lost it and couldn't take it back.

He actually thinks throwing someone that is much smaller in size than you with their momentum is an impressive feat. He's thinking purely in terms of who he likes more and not of who actually showcased better strength. I guarantee you if Thanos and CM swapped feats, he'd still be of the opinion Thanos had better feats. You cannot rationalize with this type of thinking. I don't even like CM and she was clearly (literally they spell it out for you with the expression on his face) overpowering him and he had to rely on the PS. She damn nosells his headbutt. I guarantee you if Thanos did this to her people like him would be wanking the feat into oblivion.

As if the size would matter in a fight with opponents that powerful. Was being small a problem for CM when she destroyed the gigantic ship?

Any way I didn't believe even for a moment that Thanos had trouble with her. It was easy for Thanos to snatch the infinity gauntlet from CM.

Just the snap proved to be a little difficult, because it was not the uru gauntlet and CM was able to drain the stones energy and wearing the inferior gauntlet hurt so much, that Hulk was bending his knees.

The gauntlet Thanos wielded when fighting Captain Marvel was not the one made of Uru forged with the use of a Neutron star, it was a inferior duplicate.

I've read about Cap Marvel's powers in MCU wiki (just to check if they count energy absorbtion as one of her powers) and I've noticed there is written that Carol broke few of Thanos' fingers before he used Power Gem.

That's strange. I've watched the scene again and it doesn't look like she broke any Thanos' finger.

Does anyone think she actually did it?

Endgame Thanos without the Gauntlet would probably still win. IW Thanos ragdolls her.

Thanos won the fight for the IG without the powerstone so yeah he wins

Wiki has gotten something wrong about Cap and Ultron's fight in the past. Not sure if it was corrected. The MCU usually makes it pretty clear when there's a lasting injuring and Thanos was not in pain nor was he reacting in any way that implied anything broke. He was also able to snap, so I question where that came from.

I think this is close tbh. No one stomps. The fact this can be debated with both sides giving good arguments shows that. The power stone definitely sped up Thanos's victory because if the fight went on much longer, other Avengers could interfere (and one did anyways). It's interesting that Thanos only ever attempted to use one hand against CM before the power stone. The head-butt feat was good, but then we have Thanos being less affected by CM's attacks than Mjolnir. Cap's shield strike when wielding Mjolnir hurt Thanos more. So it seems to me that they'd have a long fight where they'd very slowly wear each other down. Thanos definitely didn't want a long fight. They're similar in strength and durability, and while CM has speed, Thanos has skill. All I know is that Thanos wins if he has even one stone, but I don't know about base.

@rebake: Agree. But I think Thanos felt some pain as seen in his facial expression after the headbutt.

OT: that fight is close, but I feel like Russos wanted to show that Cap Marvel is stronger (headbutt scene). This isn't completely consistent with their earlier interactions:

1. when wounded Thanos seemingly started overpowering her before other Avengers intervened,

2. when he basically no-sold her attacks and threw her away, only to get almost overpowered few seconds later.

Maybe Carol was absorbing Space Stone's energy - it would explain a lot. And I'd like it to be true as I prefer Thanos to win. But I still feel that she was meant to be just stronger with all that hype from Feige.

@nn5: I too get the sense she was getting amped. But was it from the stones or just herself (kind of like Thor unleashing his lighting power)? Base Thanos is definitely stronger than Base Captain Marvel since even his crispy arm was overpowering her leg. Could it be that CM was putting all her energy towards strength and durability during the head-butt, but not speed, explaining why she was able to react to the power stone punch but not move out of the way in time? I still don't fully get how her powers work. By her expression, she seemed concerned about that punch (wasn't confident she could tank it). It seemed like CM was getting an amp, then Thanos decided to amp himself much more than that using a stone. But here, Thanos doesn't have a stone to guarantee victory. So I see it being a drawn out fight, especially since Thanos has the durability to even perform the power stone punch. The only power in EG Thanos really had no defense against was Wanda's tk. He was literally immobilized and getting slowly shredded.

@rebake:

Logically, her taking energy from Space Stone is probably better. But I think that in-universe explanation will rather be about her own power (again Feige's hype). Also, when Thanos takes out Power Stone, the rest are not glowing if I remember correctly (and Space should probably glow if she was using it). So she's probably stronger than Hulk with better energy projection than Thor, as much as I don't like it.

On the other hand, Thanos' sword (I assume he has it in that battle) may give him the win.

Thanos

@immadnice: Lol, you already have villains like Dormammu, Sultur and Ego who she ain't fodderizing.

IMO it was pretty clear that a Thanos without the gauntlet couldn't have beaten Carol. He was really struggling, dropping the power gem in his other hand and blasting her with it saved his bacon.

Good Point. I think a lot of people just choose to omit that part.

@sawed_off_it: maybe she was clearly never smart enough to use that MFTL speed flight everybody talks about to fly away with the Gauntlet, or just put it on herself instead of flying toward something Thanos could intercept. Honestly, out of 14,000,000+ outcomes, saying that only one where Tony puts on the Gauntlet to save the day is an insult to all the other characters' intelligence.

@batman242: I mean, it isn't what Strange said, it's what he viewed via the time gem. I don't see it as an insult to anyone's intelligence if the possible scenarios were so clear to him that even Strange saw it fit to hand over the stone.

There was only one outcome. Maybe she wasn't smart enough to combat Thanos correctly but that doesn't change the fact that over 14 millions realities, Thanos emerged holding the gauntlet.

.

@sawed_off_it: Dont you think it's mostly incompetence on the teams part, though? I'm sure there was more than one possibility Carol got hold of the Gauntlet, in any of this she could've put it on, chucked it in to outer space, something. Earlier in IW they were about to beat him and get the Gauntlet off his hand, but we later find out they only have one in several million chance to beat him. It's just weird to me that the most powerful among them never did anything competent enough in Strange's view to prevent Thanos from winning.

I thought Endgame made it official, CM > Thanos.

Captain Marvel.

Dr. Strange himself could just teleport Thanos to space or sun in Endgame before he got the Infinity Gauntlet, bye-bye. It's obvious that Thanos had a plot armor, nothing more. It's just bad writing, that's all there is.

This.

Also this.

Pretty sure Captain Marvel had the upper hand + better versatility

Thanos cuts her down.

That's what MCU Strange saw and he isn't incompetent. Bad writing or not, it is at it is. It's their universe and their characters. They know them better then someone who claims that MCU Dr Strange can teleport Thanos into the sun.

Anyone who thinks he can write something better, good luck with finding a studio to finance your vision.

@azrael1973: You not seeing anything wrong with it at all is just a lack of thought or creativity on your part, you mean to tell me that Strange opening a portal under Thanos leaving him in the mountains of Tibet like they did Cull and letting Carol put on the Gauntlet as she's clearly the most durable among them beside Thor and letting her snap and survive isn't something that would work out of 14,000,000 chances? Seriously?

I don't hate it, I loved the movie regardless, but by god, I'm not gonna sit here and say that's not bad writing when it clearly was.

My creativity is not important and yours isn't either. If Strange looked into 14 million realities and couldn't find a way to defeat Thanos just means that he knows more then we do. Probably Thanos has something he can do about it , but didn't need to show it.

We can't use the timestone, he could.

Marvel was dominating Thanos, and he needed to cheat via the Power Stone to fight her off. It's clear that she would beat him in a legit fight.

Thanos wins unless it’s that time of the month Ms Marvel ??

@azrael1973: You're right, our lack of creativity and thought are irrelevant, but the writers' lack of thought and creativity is what makes the bad writing and it's their fault. I stand by statement that it's an insult to every character in the 14,000,000 scenarios and what we KNOW them to be capable of.

But our knowledge is limited. The writers and MCU Stranges is not. He is like someone who has played a RPG and died 14.000.000 times and found a single way to win. We don't know if it's bad writing because we don't know how he failed each time.

@azrael1973: You say this as though the writers themselves are limited to in-world knowledge and aren't the ones who create every decision and outcome made. They could've said 5 scenarios and 3 where they won and you wouldn't argue against it. It's bad writing based on us knowing what each character is capable of. They had to nerf Thor, make Carol incompetent and preoccupy Strange in order to execute this specific scenario. It's just bad writing.

Well their job is to make a exiting movie. But it was never in question that the odds of Thanos suceeding were overwhelming. Otherwise the timestone would be a useless peace of junk.

@batman242: CV deals with direct statements and feats, especially when it is live action. You are not permitted to be "creative" (in your sense of the word, apparently) or accuse others as having a lack of thought simply because you don't want to accept what happened on film.

It is not being creative. To embellish a feat/statement that you don't like because it must've meant something else, it couldn't have been that attitude, makes your argument or disagreement less than. The time gem told him what route to take and he did. It worked and even when Tony's question could've halted the process, Strange stuck to what the time gem showed, and it worked.

If it showed Captain Marvel doing anything of significance then he would've just said, "We have to find the blue and red energy girl".

@sawed_off_it: It's clear that I went off on a tangent. I have accepted the feats for exactly what they were. My points were based on the writing and how that affected the characters abilities.... Because writing is always what affects a characters abilities. Call it a critique on the film, just we critique any other movie.

@batman242: Ok but that is just a critique on the film. Not the thread itself.

Just because someone didn't do something, doesn't mean they can't. It's that simple really. Plot armor, they exist.

Even this site's rules rejects PIS and WIS showings. This is pretty much both at the same time. By your claim, you're suggesting that Thanos could survive being teleported to the sun, and somehow could escape its gravity, because Strange definitely has seen it happening, yes? With what feats? Non-existent. It's writer induced stupidity, and isn't backed up by anything but a vague statement, and assumptions.

I'm not saying our vision has to happen in the movie, I'm just ignoring PIS and WIS in Battle Threads which is what we're supposed to do in this site, and pretty much anywhere else in fictional debate. It's common sense, really.

Also, did you just reference to my post without tagging me? It's obvious that these directors are just as clueless as us, the feats are decided and done by the VFX team, science consultants, choreographer, and more, not just them. This is the same movie that can't even be consistent with their time travel rules, with the directors and writers disagreeing with each other on this matter after the movie is released. Please don't even mention "durr durr this guy knows better than the rests of us", they really don't.

This is absolutely wrong. We're permitted to ignore PIS and WIS if it doesn't align with their feats and consistency. You must've visited the wrong site. You should take those kind of statements with a grain of salt. It's not that we don't like the statement, it just contradicts their on screen feats.

Thanos got solo'd by Scarlet Witch on screen. The same Thanos that was stated to be the strongest being in the universe (do you see how inconsistent these statements are?). Does that mean, Strange had to say "we have to find the red energy girl"? Probably... Did he say that? No.

Captain Marvel came even without Strange's interference, so your argument isn't even valid by your own logic.

I forgot to mention that Kevin Feige said Captain Marvel was the strongest Avengers, and we've seen Thanos getting solo'd by Scarlet Witch. So we have to accept that as a fact as well, right? Again, do you see now how dumb and inconsistent these statements are?

I've seen Thanos tanking a lot of shit. I've seen him beating the Hulk and Thor within 10 seconds, I've seen him beating the Trinity without a single stone easily. He's been stated the most powerful in the universe by half the galaxy in something like 5 movies. Strange never saw CM beating him. She never showed an impressive strength apart from ripping spaceships apart. She never used speed to blitz somebody. She was just holding the gauntlet for 5 seconds before being one-shotted by the power stone.

No matter what Kevin Feige says, it is still Thanos in a god stomp by feats and logic.