TFU Darth Vader and Starkiller vs ROTS Sidious and ROTS Yoda

Who wins?

Vader solo them

^^^

Team 2 stomp. Neither Vader nor SK can compete in sabers, and they can't last long in the Force.

Reasoning?

Yoda has Tk on par if not better than both of Team 1 and Palpatine scales directly to it:

Also ROTS' Palpatine' Lightning is way better than Starkiller's:

Gallery

(Right to Left, idk why it didn't format out properly)

I don't dispute Sabers though, they can hold out against Team 2.

@spider-simp: Trust me; don't. You are right, however. Yoda and Sidious are significantly above either of team 2.

As for sabers, both are well above.

@eredin12: You just claimed SK can react to MFTL speeds and is moon/planetary level based upon two showings that are not consistent across any media. It's blatantly dishonest.

Yoda farts, which causes Galen to go into oneness and explode, with Vader dying from the blowback. Sheev sits back and indulges in his latest hobby of electrocuting oversized space worms (poor fellas never did anything to deserve such misfortune).

Seen this feat being thrown around so let's address it.

Starkiller is providing the power to restart a cannon and provide the energy for it to push it to return to maximum power, not he alone providing the power to destroy the ISD. Per the Prima Guide, he only "powered the cannon"; he didn't show the capabilities to destroy it on his own. I assume I don't need to explain the simple logic of how powering something doesn't mean you're equal to the power plus the weapon's energy output and kinetic force:

He provided the power to kickstart the process; he didn't destroy the ISD itself. And before Eredin inevitably writes a wall of text yelling about how there's a gif of it "before" and "after" he powered it, remember that the ship itself was undergoing constant power surges and faults, that affected even the door controls, let alone the far more demanding energy inputs of the cannons (the weapons systems were also affected):

Here's an example of how capital ships can do similar damage when operating at full power (skip to 1:04):

Now, let's look at the nature of the energy SK provided. Starkiller provided Force Lightning to the cannon, producing an attack similar to an EMP, as can be seen by the energy surrounding the shot:

The Empire used the exact same kind of weapon to punch through the Salvation's shields and disable the cannon; an EMP:

Now, let's look at what kind of cannon the main cannon of the Salvation was, shall we? It's a Fusion Accelerator Cannon, a prototype cannon. The device works by building huge amounts of heat and converting it into electricity, which it then blasts as a single shot at the opposing ship.

What SK did was jump up and provide the machine with electricity after it was disabled by the ISD. As he powered it, the machine came back online and was boosted to full power, releasing a shot that could split the ISD in two.

In short: SK himself did not produce "power" to destroy the ship. He provided enough power to restart the machine (hence why it's described as disabled, not destroyed):

The machine uses fusion energy to produce its attacks. What this means is that energy or a chemical reaction is initiated within a magnetic field, which contains and maintains the energy:

Plasma must be kept at very high temperatures with the support of external heating systems and confined by an external magnetic field.

What SK is doing here is "powering" two of the coils of the "deactivated" cannon, which causes energy to flow back and forth, increasing as it goes through the coils and travels along the weapon. Eventually, it reaches the point where it is ready to be fired (when SK Force Pushes the back of the cannon), causing the cannon to shoot forth and release the shot, destroying the ISD. SK himself is not powering the cannon at that level; he's providing the energy that the cannon didn't have because it was running at a decreased voltage.

TLDR: The cannon was originally running with a limited power input even before it was "deactivated", due to the energy surges across the ship that were even disabling the weapons. SK stood at the coils and pumped an unquantifiable amount of power into them, which flowed into the other coils and back and then along the cannon, gathering power from the process as it did until it was ready to fire. The cannon did most of the work; SK just provided the kick it needed to begin the process, and then fired the round itself.

@spider-simp You might be interested in this. Are you new, btw? If so, welcome.

Team 1, at least in a Force battle. Vader tanked the Oneness attack of Galen, and the latter, even before that, replicated Yoda's feat against TFU Palpatine who is far more powerful than Yoda, with the Emperor being described as "desperate", thus Vader is, by feats, capable of enduring Force attacks from beings far above the grandmaster and Rots Sidious, which fits very well with all his Vader>Anakin quotes (which, mind you, refer to ANH Vader, 2 years after TFU), and keep in mind he did this when his life support system was compromised due to losing his helmet and chest panel, both of which are the most important elements of his suit, meaning he had to keep himself alive through sheer willpower while tanking Galen's attack.

Note: this has nothing to do with Vader's power relationship with Galen, so there's no need for Vader and Galen fans to be in disagreement, at least in this context. As Vader said to Ahsoka: "We need not be adversaries".

I could see team 2 winning a lightsaber duel, though. Indeed, I think they would.

@zapan871: Sidious is described as being "desperate" before the lightning hits him, suggesting that he's just trying to shake him off, not drastically increase the power of his lightning (he'd sense SK barely hanging on as it is). Similarly, he's not tanking it so much as he is clinging onto consciousness through sheer willpower. By contrast, Yoda matched Sidious' all-out lightning and forced it back until they stalemated.

I'd also argue that Sidious wasn't going all out with his lightning, given that his body was falling apart and he had - at this point in time - no real way of preserving his spirit should it be destroyed. For instance, he had yet to properly master Essence Transfer. Sidious was very wary of how power he conducted through his body at this point.

@zapan871: It isn't clear to me that Marek "replicated" Yoda's feat when he literally gave his life to hold Palpatine off, which is hardly the same as a contest of (near-)equals. "Desperate" or not, Palpatine was unharmed by that explosion which left Marek dead. TCSWE confirms the disparity by stating that "Starkiller was no match for the power of Darth Sidious".

By contrast, sources generally acknowledge parity between Yoda and the Emperor, indicating that he could not defeat Sidious, but usually not stating outright that he simply wasn't a match for him.

Forgot to add the quotes for SK using everything he had just to cling to consciousness:

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

-

The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice’s mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

Everything he has is barely enough to keep him conscious, and he couldn't have lasted much longer, anyway. That, plus the quote Nova mentioned and him tanking the Oneness explosion with little more than a few burns and a damaged robe whilst at the epicentre of the blast, indicate a lack of parity.

Would edit them into my post but CV is being rude, again. >:(

@eredin12:

He did not though, he gave his life because he let down his force defenses unlike Emperor, force defenses are the very thing that makes force users super durable in the first place, without it Sith Emperor would die when that droid used flame thrower on him, Glen let that down and then used all his energy for one huge AoE blast, not to hit Palpatine or hold him off but to kill Stoormprers that were about to gun down Rebels, to allow them to escape, that was his purpose with that final movie, to save them, not to hold Palpatine:

Stormtroopers are complete fodder in comparison to the two of them, so it isn't clear that they required particular effort. They could've been, and were, killed as collateral damage of Marek's efforts to combat the Emperor.

Holding Palpatine was absolutely pivotal to saving the Rebels. We see in the DS version that Palpatine could easily hurl the Rogue Shadow to its doom if he was given the opportunity, so it's evident that Marek had to keep Sidious from having the opportunity to use TK.

Emperor himself was not even the main target, stormtroopers about to gun down Rebels were and they got atomized, only fraction hit Emperor and still gave him a lot of burns

This makes no sense. The stormtroopers, being non-Force sensitive would've died from any kind of contact from the explosion, even if they were on the periphery. The Emperor, being the most powerful Force user in the galaxy, was obviously the far more demanding target. He was also right next to Marek, meaning he was at the epicentre of the explosion, and you think he was only hit by a "fraction" of the blast?

Regarding the burns, that's nice for the comic, but the novel from which you're drawing the desperation quote makes no mention of it, and the various game renditions have the Emperor completely unscathed:

https://youtu.be/pD4oEpHIqG0?t=545

https://youtu.be/WVx0viv3Q1A?t=665

The majority of sources indicate that the Emperor is totally unharmed, and even the burns in the comic are effectively aesthetic damage anyway.

Above all, you're forgetting that this was a sacrificial feat of Oneness. If he can't even hurt the Emperor beyond a superficial level in such a state, then it seems pretty clear to me that there was a significant disparity indeed.

2. As a result, the same statement can be applied to how Yoda fared against Sidious in RotS.

The quotes all say that Sidious was too strong to defeat, which doesn't preclude approximate parity. That's still clearly distinct from being "no match", since being a match for someone would still make you too strong for them to defeat.

@shootingnova: This makes no sense. The stormtroopers, being non-Force sensitive would've died from any kind of contact from the explosion, even if they were on the periphery. The Emperor, being the most powerful Force user in the galaxy, was obviously the far more demanding target. He was also right next to Marek, meaning he was at the epicentre of the explosion, and you think he was only hit by a "fraction" of the blast?

Interestingly, the comic reinforces the idea that he's directing the explosion at Sidious, and the others were distracted by the rest:

As do the games:

@eredin12:

It is not that they require much effort, indeed they do not, it is that he was distracted fighting Emperor and could not spare any effort at all, fighting Emperor requires 100% of his effort, if he turned around to kill soldiers even for a moment and save Rebels, Emperor would kill him from behind when he is exposed/ unprotected and they would still die.He could not waste any effort on that while fighting Monster like Emperor himself, so he had to use all his energy for that AoE that was the only way, but the main purpose of that AoE is to kill those Stormtroopers about to gun down Rebels/ his friends, as well as stop Vader, not to hold Emperor. Hence why he cried no when he sensed they are about to gun them down before using this AoE, and also it was not just soldiers, Vader himself was leading them, and he is extremely strong force-sensitive, even if he somehow killed Stormtroopers Vader himself who was leading them would still kill them had he not this did, it goes without saying that Marek could not afford to try to deal with Vader, even if injured, while fighting Emperor lol

Your quote doesn't support the notion of the Emperor being a secondary target of the explosion. It states that Marek wanted to lash out at the Imperials, which includes Vader and the Emperor. And given the Emperor can instantly end the Rebels with the slightest effort, Marek's task was to both hold off the Emperor completely as well as halt the Stormtrooper advance.

Agreed that Marek's only option here was a suicide Oneness blast. However, it's fairly obvious that the vast majority of what necessitated the Oneness was Palpatine, not the Stormtroopers.

Emperor was at epicenter sure but that still does not mean he will take much of energy when blast expends to island size after, only if he blocked it all like Green Lantern cage would he be hit by all of it, as it is, he took few % but not most of it by any chance

The size of the explosion doesn't preclude the epicentre from being the most potent part of it. There's no basis in suggesting that the potency of the explosion was concentrated in the periphery.

That is true, he also had to keep him from killing them as well, that is the entire reason he engaged in this clash in the first place, but that is not why he used all his energy for AoE, dropping all his force defenses, it is to save Rebels from soldiers about to shot them if he did not act

There's no reason why saving the Rebels from the Stormtroopers is mutually exclusive with saving them from the Emperor. Again, the latter was an infinitely greater threat. Suggesting that he was a secondary target is tantamount to suggesting that killing the Stormtroopers required a greater output of energy than keeping the Emperor at bay.

The novel also does not say he was not burned either, only in-game he looks unburned, but as a comic is equally canon, I think using it is valid

The text spends time accounting for Vader being damaged by the blast; that it neglects to do so for the Emperor is a testament to the fact that the latter was unharmed.

And the game has gone through numerous renditions, none of which include the Emperor being harmed. So it's clear that the vast majority of sources swing in favour of Palpatine being unhurt.

well not really, even if 2 people are equally strong they still can defeat each other, it can go either way then, but the fact that Yoda could not do it, shows that he was a bit weaker, just like Galen in moment( due to being weakened) , but still near equal

Two equally powerful opponents can still defeat each other due to circumstance, but then, even a less powerful character can do that. Clearly this isn't what the quotes are referring to, but the act of overpowering another, which isn't possible if you're only equally powerful.

Stating that somebody is "too strong to defeat" doesn't preclude approximate parity, while being "no match" for somebody does.

Much context has been left out of the various analyses on this thread... Plan to address many of them over the next few days. I'm sure the responses will be... creative, to say the least.

Hi Nova, it's great to see you back, how are you?

Anyway, my point wasn't just about Marek's Oneness blast, so much that he clearly made the Emperor "desperate" and was advancing on him, something Yoda was not capable of, being pushed to his limits by a far weaker Sidious.

Being no match simply means Marek was not an equal to the Emperor, but then again neither was Yoda, given that he lost, and it doesn't indicate any kind of vast disparity between them. You might argue that Galen died, but that happened because he was trying to give his friends the opportunity to flee, whereas Yoda was alone, and it doesn't change what happened before the blast anyway.

A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

-- The Force Unleashed

Sidious factually wasn't really harmed by Yoda either, just pushed back, and the fact remains that Vader tanked an attack far above the grandmaster's power level given Palpatine's growth between ROTS and TFU, and mind you we have examples of lesser Force users like Zannah growing hugely in even less time, yet Vader endured such an attack in a gravely hindered state, ergo beings far below TFU Sidious can't really harm him with the Force, which was my point.

@eredin12:

It includes Emperor as he is Imperial but he is not one about to gun down Rebels, he is not imidate threat to them, Stormtroopers and Vader are, they are main targets and more importantly actual reason he did this AoE. Yes Emperor can easily kill them if he does not fight him, but even if he fights him and hods him Rebels would still be killed by Vader and Stormtroopers had he not used this AoE, as he could not afford to turn around and help them himself as that would allow Emperor to instantly kill him from behind when he is unprotected

The reason he did the AoE was that he knew he had to fight all the threats at once. The Emperor was equally a factor in his decision to commit to the blast.

The Emperor can kill the Rebels with the barest fraction of his power. Marek needed to occupy 100% of his powers in addition to holding off the Stormtrooper advance. We seem to agree on this, so there's no need to keep labouring the same points.

Not at all, he made him desperate before it, he did not need it for him, he needed this suicide blast to actually kill Stormtroopers and stop Vader despite also fighting Emperor since if he turned to help them any other way, Emperor would use it to kill him and they would still die. It is not that Emperor is a bigger threat to them, it is that fact that he is such huge threat that requires 100% of Glaens effort to fight near equally with in his weakened state means that he cannot afford to turn around and deal with the army and Vader at the same time, he would die for nothing then

You're repeating yourself over and over. He made Palpatine desperate by grabbing him and making Palpatine shock himself.

This entire debate is pointless anyway, since it's narratively apparent that Marek was planning to sacrifice himself from the beginning. Even if the Stormtroopers hadn't been present and he hadn't resorted to the explosion, it's obvious he was going to give up his life to hold Palpatine off.

Regarding weakened states, that's not observed in any source as a consequential factor (cf Vader in RotJ). Usually characters willing to go to the death are breaking previous limits anyway, as the text indicates here.

Nobody denies that epicenter is most potent, just that when blast expends to island sized in all directions, it is clear that most of energy wa snot absorbed/ blocked by 2 human-sized characters at the epicenter, only a fraction of it

Then there wasn't really a point to arguing this.

Not at all, only if it stated that he was would show that he was unharmed, yet it did not, the novel often does not need to state everything that happend in an event. It is just 1 source, game, the game is one source, with comic showing that he was and novel saying nothing

The novel mentions Vader being further damaged immediately beforehand, then goes on to mention the rubble that was left in the explosion's wake. It was clearly within the author's scope to indicate the damage caused by Marek's blast, which evidently didn't include the Emperor.

Even if we disregarded the novel, there are more than enough game renditions to outnumber the novel and comic. The comic is simply vastly outnumbered.

Not on circumstance, MMA fighters do not need special circumstances to beat MMA fighters as strong/ skilled/ fast as them, often it is luck based really, quote does not say that he cannot overpower him but that he cannot beat him at all, and that means he is weaker, which still allows him to be near equal like weakened Glen just not as 100% as strong as Palpatine

But these aren't MMA fighters. Narratives can include characters who are actually perfectly matched, whereas real life virtually never does.

There's a whole lot of intellectual gymnastics to contort around a rather simple observation that not being able to defeat somebody =/= being no match for them. For the record, there are a number of quotes that do describe Yoda as a match for Sidious.

Team 2

@zapan871:

Hi Nova, it's great to see you back, how are you?

I'm good, how are you?

Anyway, my point wasn't just about Marek's Oneness blast, so much that he clearly made the Emperor "desperate" and was advancing on him, something Yoda was not capable of, being pushed to his limits by a far weaker Sidious.

Disagreed. Per the junior novel, Palpatine was desperate to the point of being unsure he could win against Yoda and was disarmed at a later point. It was very much a life-or-death contest for him. Even in the RotS novel where he outright defeats Yoda, he's left in a comparable state to post-Marek despite shocking himself and enduring the suicidal explosion in the latter scenario.

Are you suggesting that Marek wasn't pushed to his limits by Sidious? Even before the Oneness blast, he was prepared to lay down his life to buy time for his friends.

Being no match simply means Marek was not an equal to the Emperor, but then again neither was Yoda, given that he lost, and it doesn't indicate any kind of vast disparity between them. You might argue that Galen died, but that happened because he was trying to give his friends the opportunity to flee, whereas Yoda was alone, and it doesn't change what happened before the blast anyway.

Per the film and junior novel, Yoda lost by circumstance (being smaller and knocked further without anything to break his fall). The novel and comic depict Yoda being outright beaten, but they appear to be based on an earlier script.

A number of quotes do state that Yoda was a match for the Emperor, with quotes often simply stating that the Emperor was too strong to defeat, as contrasted to simply being "no match" for him.

Sidious factually wasn't really harmed by Yoda either, just pushed back, and the fact remains that Vader tanked an attack far above the grandmaster's power level given Palpatine's growth between ROTS and TFU, and mind you we have examples of lesser Force users like Zannah growing hugely in even less time, yet Vader endured such an attack in a gravely hindered state, ergo beings far below TFU Sidious can't really harm him with the Force, which was my point.

He wasn't, but he was exhausted by the fight, which is at best an inference from the TFU fight. I'd accept Sidious having grown significantly, but the nature of the feats are different enough for me to think that Marek was not replicating Yoda's showing at all.

Sidious and Yoda win pretty decisively.

Whut, team 2 stomp

@shootingnova: I'm fine, thanks

Disagreed. Per the junior novel, Palpatine was desperate to the point of being unsure he could win against Yoda and was disarmed at a later point. It was very much a life-or-death contest for him. Even in the RotS novel where he outright defeats Yoda, he's left in a comparable state to post-Marek despite shocking himself and enduring the suicidal explosion in the latter scenario.

Are you suggesting that Marek wasn't pushed to his limits by Sidious? Even before the Oneness blast, he was prepared to lay down his life to buy time for his friends.

Of course Marek was, with the novel even describing his nerves as going on fire among other things IIRC, and I don't doubt he would have eventually lost in a different scenario, my point is that Sidious is far, if not massively, more powerful than he was in ROTS, and Galen advanced on Palpatine's lightning (and keep in mind he was even somewhat distracted at one point, i.e when he told Kota to protect the senators), something Yoda was unable to do.

Per the film and junior novel, Yoda lost by circumstance (being smaller and knocked further without anything to break his fall). The novel and comic depict Yoda being outright beaten, but they appear to be based on an earlier script.

A number of quotes do state that Yoda was a match for the Emperor, with quotes often simply stating that the Emperor was too strong to defeat, as contrasted to simply being "no match" for him.

The fact remains however that Yoda was also unable to harm Sidious with his attack (unless you count being blasted back a few meters as harm), and you are talking about an external description of events, which in this case is contradicted by the source material if we take "no match" as an indication of being beaten easily. Yoda wasn't Palpatine's equal anyway, and just to be clear, I don't think Marek was either. All I'm saying is that Marek isn't far below TFU Palpatine, which should still position him well above Yoda's league even without Oneness.

He wasn't, but he was exhausted by the fight, which is at best an inference from the TFU fight. I'd accept Sidious having grown significantly, but the nature of the feats are different enough for me to think that Marek was not replicating Yoda's showing at all.

Actually, Sidious would have grown massively given how much people with way lesser potential than him are capable of improving in less time than the 17 years separating Palpatine from his Rots incarnation. A great example of that would be Darth Zannah's huge growth from ROT to DOE (a 10 year gap), and she is the least talented and powerful Sith in the Banite line (aside from Bane himself of course). And I think we both know potential also determines a Force user's growth rate, hence why Zannah could catch up to Bane and surpass him in spite of the latter being able to snap her neck even without his orbalisk armor at the end of ROT.

What is so different when they were both pushed to their limits by different iterations of Sidious, and Vader tanked the attack of someone far more powerful than Yoda, with Galen being in a Oneness state at the time? Keep in mind that Yoda didn't have to protect his friends, and he wasn't surrounded by stormtroopers and Vader himself, but was forced to flee anyway.

Considering this, Vader even as of TFU can't be far below Yoda and Rots Sidious, especially when he is fresh. If he was, he would at least have been brought near death by Marek's attack, and then healed by the Emperor or be forced to recover for weeks/months in an Imperial facility, or he would have been incapacitated at bare minimum, all of which didn't happen. And he had 2 years to grow until ANH (which is where his >Anakin/MF Vader quotes apply).

But I'm actually curious, especially given Dooku's newfound hype due to his near equality to Yoda in power, at least as of Aotc, which seems to be pretty consistent: do you have prime Vader above him, on his level or below him?

@zapan871:

Of course Marek was, with the novel even describing his nerves as going on fire among other things IIRC, and I don't doubt he would have eventually lost in a different scenario, my point is that Sidious is far, if not massively, more powerful than he was in ROTS, and Galen advanced on Palpatine's lightning (and keep in mind he was even somewhat distracted at one point, i.e when he told Kota to protect the senators), something Yoda was unable to do.

Galen advanced because he was ready to lay down his life even before he entered the Oneness. It was a suicide attack that only built in severity because he was willing to give up absolutely everything anyway. Characters willing to kill themselves often perform monumental and superstandard showings. Note that the pain he experienced (and pushed himself past) isn't attributed to Yoda in any comparable terms in any source.

If we look at how easily he's demolished in the dark side version, when he isn't doing that, he doesn't compare nearly as favourably against Yoda.

The fact remains however that Yoda was also unable to harm Sidious with his attack (unless you count being blasted back a few meters as harm), and you are talking about an external description of events, which in this case is contradicted by the source material if we take "no match" as an indication of being beaten easily. Yoda wasn't Palpatine's equal anyway, and just to be clear, I don't think Marek was either. All I'm saying is that Marek isn't far below TFU Palpatine, which should still position him well above Yoda's league even without Oneness.

I see no reason to believe that the "external description" is contradicted. Galen pressed Palpatine while literally burning himself alive, then released a surge of energy in a state of Oneness that still failed to harm Palpatine at all. With respect to failing to harm Palpatine, Yoda isn't just in the company of Galen but of Galen in Oneness.

Yoda's standing relative to Palpatine depends on the source. There's definitely some, both primary and secondary, that depict him as Palpatine's equal, while others don't. That's a sharp contrast to Galen's universally depicted inferiority to the Emperor. Again, if we look at the dark side version, Galen was beaten easily.

What is so different when they were both pushed to their limits by different iterations of Sidious, and Vader tanked the attack of someone far more powerful than Yoda, with Galen being in a Oneness state at the time? Keep in mind that Yoda didn't have to protect his friends, and he wasn't surrounded by stormtroopers and Vader himself, but was forced to flee anyway.

The difference is that Yoda was pushed to his limits, while Galen went beyond his limits because he was willing to kill himself to hold off the Emperor. Without that factor, as in the DS version, he was creamed.

As you mentioned, Yoda fled instead of trying again, a fact which indicates that he wasn't prepared to sacrifice his life in the same manner that Galen was. Galen knew he was facing certain death so he was putting in 300%; Yoda clearly didn't have the same inclination (and if I recall correctly, is suggested by some source to have felt the call to live another day).

Actually, Sidious would have grown massively given how much people with way lesser potential than him are capable of improving in less time than the 17 years separating Palpatine from his Rots incarnation. A great example of that would be Darth Zannah's huge growth from ROT to DOE (a 10 year gap), and she is the least talented and powerful Sith in the Banite line (aside from Bane himself of course). And I think we both know potential also determines a Force user's growth rate, hence why Zannah could catch up to Bane and surpass him in spite of the latter being able to snap her neck even without his orbalisk armor at the end of ROT.

Zannah was also much younger at that point than Palpatine, but I don't dispute the point that the Emperor grew significantly. That wasn't a factor in my comparison of Galen and Yoda's feats; I was contesting the description that Galen replicated Yoda's showing when I think they're fundamentally different feats, without regard to the quality of the opponent faced.

But I'm actually curious, especially given Dooku's newfound hype due to his near equality to Yoda in power, at least as of Aotc, which seems to be pretty consistent: do you have prime Vader above him, on his level or below him?

This isn't really newfound, since at least some variation of the quote had been found years ago but it was considered outlandish by most. Even Silver recognised sources like that, and I found the Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force quote many years ago. What none of us wanted to consider was that Yoda grew significantly from AotC to RotS, so we simply dismissed it as a case of power creep since Yoda went on to equal Dooku's superior in Sidious during RotS.

We know that Yoda eventually surpassed Tyranus in power, so it's only as useful as we can qualify AotC Yoda's powers. That said, it's still very impressive, considering that Yoda can backwards scale over any Jedi Master before him and the Count himself grew over the course of the Clone Wars. I'd say Vader is probably still more powerful, though not necessarily an entire level's difference.