Team vs Solid Snake and Big Boss!!!

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Aressword

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#1  Edited By Aressword

Agent 47, Sam Fisher, B.J. Blazkowicz, and Gordon Freeman.

vs

Solid Snake and Big Boss.

Rules

  1. All lore is allowed.
  2. Standard Gear; I do mean standard gear.
  3. No In fighting.
  4. No morals.
  5. Win by death.
  6. No Prior knowledge.
  7. Random Encounter.
  8. Both have a location of where the other is at, but have to guess and move from there.
  9. Both are set on killing each other not escaping or anything.
  10. No BFR.
  11. Both teams have 1 hour of prep.
  12. No outside help, but outside intel on background history, general weapons, etc can be given/researched.

Environment; start 500ft apart one team on one side the other team on the other.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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Oh boy. LOL.

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The_Caped_Crusader

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Team 1 stomps?

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BeaconofStrength

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#5  Edited By BeaconofStrength

Not sure about Freeman and Blazkowicz, but Fisher and 47 are borderline non-factors.

Fight me.

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MErulezall

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Team 1 stomps, Hitman and Sam should be able to do the job solo. I don't know much about freeman, but B.J faced a tough nazi army that'd put him easily on Big boss or Snake's level.

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BeaconofStrength

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@merulezall: Fisher and 47 don't have a chance in hell taking out the Snakes by themselves.

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Stormdriven

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Freeman solos, crowbar OP

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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@beaconofstrength: are you kidding??? 47 Damn near can 1 shot them both and I mean 1 shot if it is lined up right. Your sleeping on 47, and Fisher on top of that fills the gap with his supreme stealth and h2h combat.

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renamed040924

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Sam solos luljk

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NotATreeABush

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Snakes win

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BeaconofStrength

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#13  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@dajhonmccloud: Both the Snakes have physicals that'd make 47 and Fisher's look like child's play, in comparison. The Snakes are also stealth and H2H masters, too. They're better marksmen, too, from what I've seen of 47 and Fisher. Not to mention the Snakes constantly takes down enemies that Fisher and 47 could never dream of beating.

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Eisenfauste

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Shoulda made it movie version of Agent-47, he casually moved after a bullet was fired and placed his cuffs in it's path to free himself.

Then they would of had more of a chance then they do now.

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MErulezall

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@beaconofstrength: Yeah they do, they have the skills to do it. Both have better hand to hand feats, and both have better overall personal gear. Sorry, snake isnt taking either of them in a fight.

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BeaconofStrength

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@merulezall: 47 and Fisher don't have physicals comparable to the Snake's, considering they've been able to keep and and beat hypersonic enemies, tanked huge explosions, are able to casually break concrete walls and punch out enemies that could tank bullets, explosions, and even a cyborg who could resist a 500 ton tank stomping on it. Both Snakes have been able to shoot hypersonic enemies, effortlessly dispatch helicopters with their accuracy, and more. When it comes to H2H the Snakes have been confirmed to be masters of over 30 formal martial arts, mastered every weapon, and are masters of CQC, the most effective and advance form of combat on earth. They also have ridiculously good gear, depending on The game.

47 and Fisher don't have a chance in beating them; your lack of knowledge on Metal Gear is very apparent.

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renamed040924

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#17  Edited By renamed040924

@merulezall said:

@beaconofstrength: Yeah they do, they have the skills to do it. Both have better hand to hand feats, and both have better overall personal gear. Sorry, snake isnt taking either of them in a fight.

What better hand-to-hand feats do you have in mind, exactly? As far as I know, neither 47 nor Sam have ever really taken down anyone with established skills of their own, just fodder and a few named characters who were featless. Both Snakes on the other hand regularly combat superhumans through sheer skill, like the Cyborg Ninja, who in addition to super strength and the speed to move faster than normal humans can perceive, was also a master fighter in his own right, yet Snake's CQC and tactical skill was on such a higher level that it was alone enough to compensate and allow him to win. And also Vamp, who was a true master of martial arts, to the point where he fooled most people into believing he was an actual supernatural vampire, when in reality he was a normal person, albeit nanomachines in his body enhanced his healing, but other then that he had no powers, his skill was the only thing supernatural. Yet even as an old man, Snake was able to combat him in CQC and take the upperhand, securing him in a chokehold long enough to forcibly inject him with nanomachine suppressants. Then there are characters like Revolver Ocelot who was a GENIUS in all manners of warfare and strategy and was even able to master CQC to the point of stalemating its originator simply by watching him do it back when he was just a teenager. Snake defeated him as well.

Snake uses CQC, which stands for Close Quarters Combat. It's the most advanced, effective, and powerful style of fighting in history, combining aspects and techniques from all forms of combat into a single, unified system of grapples, throws, strikes, and gunplay. Sam has mastered Krav Maga, but that is rather basic in comparison, and I don't think 47's skills have even been elaborated on at all.

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MErulezall

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#18  Edited By MErulezall

@beaconofstrength: First off, why does everyone bring up grey fox so much? Second off a knife can hurt snake, a gun can hurt snake. These are going to end him, you call this "better hand to hand combat?"

Snake almost lost..

Loading Video...

Still get punched, so all that talk literally means jack... Seriously hyper sonic yet still gets punched by this guy. Nice, let me guess next you will say hes bullet proof and can't be harmed by knifes?

Have you even played Splintercell or Hitman at all?

Loading Video...

Seriously takes them all out with stealth and good attacks, something your snake honestly lacks unless in gameplay, which is honestly a joke as always use cutscenes not gameplay feats. Otherwise we get those people that say Gears of War characters have extreme healing factors and so on.

Sam fisher's feats as well or well at least one of them, thanks to Tparks though it saves me from quoting it and so on,

Hits hard enough to stop the human heart... Hes going to hurt either one no matter how you put it, I've got more waiting for you.

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BeaconofStrength

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@nickzambuto: I'll let you handle this one. It'll be fun, Nick.

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renamed040924

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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@beaconofstrength: Everyone who covers for the MGS characters use this logic where they can beat these extremely powerful enemies. WE DONT CARE about who they beat in there own silly world. Its so unrealistic is annoying. And 47s enhanced speed and skill should be enough to take on 1 of them he's No pushover in the h2h department niether. Fisher on the other hand is no pushover. Sam easily carries around huge body mercenaries and hangs himself from pipes while pulling a man off his feet to choke him out. So neither team is bad but the Mgs feats your using is just to unrealistic, Those things would never happen. Hopefully mgs v stays close to the realism.

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PreCrisisBardock

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Snakes take it handily.

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BeaconofStrength

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@dajhonmccloud: You're trying to act like the Snakes are normal humans, when they're already confirmed to be metahumans, in canon; they have the perfect "soldier genes" that are said to be the pinnacle of perfection. They fight unrealistic enemies all the time; it's their thing. Your only argument for the team winning is by ignoring all their feats.

Also, if you're expecting the Phantom Pain to be realistic, you'd be horribly mistaken; Snake is fighting Russian cyborgs, telepaths, and ghosts.

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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@beaconofstrength: Ok so basically super humans . Why is boss outrunning gunfire but get hit in combat? Why is he able to punch out toners but can't throw a truck? Its too inconsistent , i don't understand how you can rely on it. 47 Is actually fast in combat speed. Fighting in hitman absolution slows down the enemy while in combat showing you how fast 47 reacts and how quickly his brain can process by letting you sit for at least 2 seconds to choose what you want to do. Another showing is 47 taking on the saints, I'm sure you already know about that.

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Baztet

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Team 1, and I agree with you @dajhonmccloud that game is really inconsistent and they over wank it by far, its almost reaching fan wank level.

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Savageslayer

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Team 1 would win. But that half life guy is going down, and maybe hitman and sam. Blazkowicz tanks a lot of damage from giant robotic nazi, neither snake could take him in close or at range.

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colliderz

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Team MGS

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MErulezall

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@nickzambuto: when did I ever say that was a low showing? I said if he can dodge bullets this means he shouldn't get punched, this means that their punches would be incredibly fast. This means when Ocelot punched the ground it should of made a bigger decent, just because they have a little bit of above peak human stats doesn't mean they will win against people who are peak human. Example we can see of this is the bat family winning against people they technically shouldnt be. Either way 47 has been in a room full of men and plenty out within like a second with ease, just because its fodder doesn't mean anything. Ocelot besides his fights with snake has what again under his belt? Oh yeah that's right just being some random threat with no feats or little to no feats that would make him a match for snake, so for you to sit here and say that two people are non factors on team 1 is rather silly due to the fact no prior knowledge and standard gear, both of which have more than a pistol and a dagger, all of which will prolly never tag team 1 with a round to the head.

@beaconofstrength: Ok so basically super humans . Why is boss outrunning gunfire but get hit in combat? Why is he able to punch out toners but can't throw a truck? Its too inconsistent , i don't understand how you can rely on it. 47 Is actually fast in combat speed. Fighting in hitman absolution slows down the enemy while in combat showing you how fast 47 reacts and how quickly his brain can process by letting you sit for at least 2 seconds to choose what you want to do. Another showing is 47 taking on the saints, I'm sure you already know about that.

^ 100% right,

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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@savageslayer: Sam and 47 would be the last to go down. Especially 47 in the endgame of hit man absolution the amount of bullet suppression is insane.

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Savageslayer

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@dajhonmccloud meh i think the wolfenstein guy could last a little longer. then again i havent played that much hitman

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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@savageslayer: Endgame 47, is not far from ridiculous. When he slows down his own perception of time you basically stopped time. And his accuracy is insane i mean the lock on is an example of his headshot accuracy.

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hatemalingsia

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Interesting.

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Thewhiteronin

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#34  Edited By Thewhiteronin

Gordon Freeman stomps. He's a scientist with no combat training, but in a random encounter, he basically thwarted an entire alien invasion from a hostile dimension, killed the giant alien creature mastermind that was controlling the entire invasion, single-handedly killed entire battalions of special forces soldiers in toe-to-toe battles, soloed a giant 20-feet alien creature with enough durability to tank airstrikes, and defeated an army of genetically-modified alien super soldiers. Gordon Freeman did MOST of these things with no prep in accordance to the storyline.

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Baztet

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Enemybird

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Big Boss Solos

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AllStarSuperman

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@nickzambuto: @beaconofstrength: How can you possibly say Sam's Krav Maga is basic in comparison to CQC. Visually it makes more sense, and in game it's certainly shown to work faster. Sam fodderizing squads of armored Splinter Cells in milliseconds is much better then Snake and the Genome soldiers dancing around at snail speed. (Obviously the Snakes are faster based on rail gun and showing against Grey Fox, but they don't constantely show that).

Sam's KM is just as effective as CQC (especially for the sake of this fight, since neither are fighting metahumans.)

No Caption Provided
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Sam has inferior stats, but not so much that he is a non factor. He's a bullet timer, that blitzes squads of bullet timers. He's dodged a helicopter missle point blank. He's survived 2 helicopter crashes and wasn't even harmed in either. He's picked up a guy, and snapped his neck with one hand. And he wears bulletproof armor, which I don't think the Snakes do.

Also, Snake is basically untouchable in H2H, and he has fought more then fodder.

Douglas Shetland, I don't recall everything about him, but he was a high end military dude and then became a leader of mercenaries.

Loading Video...

28:30ish

Sam threw away his gun, dodged his bullet and speedblitzed him with a knife. And this was directly after Sam just killed tons of Shetlands guys.

Sadiq, ex MI6 and leader of the Engineers. He previously beat the hell outta Briggs, an ex military and CIA agent, who Grim was impressed enough to hire for Fourth Echelon.

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Sam still won even with the odds stacked against him.

And just a showing of how awesome Sam is in combat.

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Sam might not be able to win a straight up fight with either of the Snakes, but calling him a non factor is a tad insulting.

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DarthAznable

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CQCpotence solos.

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renamed040924

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@allstarsuperman: Did I call Sam a non-factor? If I did I take it back. He's obviously a very skilled agent. Assuming the other characters in this thread are on par with Sam, the team could very well overwhelm either one of the Snakes with their combined numbers and tactics. Both Snakes are good, but four agents of that caliber at one time is tough to keep up with. I just don't think the team can win in this scenario, and Sam certainly can't defeat either Snake one-on-one, even if he makes a respectable rival.

Looking at their respective fighting styles, CQC does take a clear advantage. It's one of the most dangerous and encompassing fighting styles in fiction. You have to keep in mind that in the real world, CQC is just a generic term denoting actual combat in close quarters. It isn't an actual style itself. However the fighting techniques that Snake and Big Boss utilize in Metal Gear Solid is not limited to any one style, whether it be judo, or jiu jitsu, or krav maga. The military advisor, Motosada Moori, takes any number of techniques from any number of fighting styles and freely implaments whatever would be the most effective in every given encounter. He'll have Snake using jiu jitsu to disarm one opponent then immediately switch to a judo attack to floor that same opponent.

This creates CQC, which in-universe is a system of combined-combat techniques taking only the most effective methods of combat and unifying them all together under one style. CQC makes effective use of pressure point strikes, joint locks, throws, holds, all for the sake of immobilizing the enemy as quickly as possible. The best part is that even though out-of-universe Motosada Moori just takes techniques from any fighting style he wants, in-universe Big Boss and The Boss are said to be the ones who invented all of these techniques. They didn't just look at judo and say "hey that's a cool move, lets incorporate it into our new style." No, every technique in CQC was originated by the two of them, from the ground up

This is why the style gets the generic title of simply Close Quarters Combat instead of something specific like Krav Maga-- because it is free to utilize ANYTHING. Krav Maga is Close Quarters Combat, but the Close Quarters Combat that Big Boss and The Boss created is much bigger than Krav Maga alone. I hope this all makes a bit of sense, it's kinda tricky to wrap your head around without actually playing the games and doing some research.

Of course other characters in Metal Gear like Gray Fox and Vamp use fighting styles besides CQC. They are never able to compete with those who have mastered CQC though, only another CQC master is able to do that. Old Snake fends off the metahuman assassin Vamp and restrains him in a hold despite being exponentially weaker, yet immediately after he can't counter Ocelot's attacks, when Ocelot is a mere human. Many people use this fact to try and downplay Snake, a regular human beats him when a superhuman can't. But that's missing the point. It's all about skill, and CQC triumphs over all. Even when Snake is facing a superhuman, the CQC style is able to counter anything. But another CQC master can counter those counters. Get it?

Snake and Big Boss have even been tested against other masters of CQC and proven to be the true masters of it within the MGS lore. Gene was Big Boss's shadow. He had all of Boss's training and skills, they held the same ideals but twisted from each other, Gene even took the CQC system that Big Boss developed and modified it into a more destructive version, which he appropriately refered to as "CQC Enhancer." And on top of all this, Gene went through the Philosopher's Successor Project and became a metahuman. He possessed ESP, telekinesis, mental manipulation, and the reflexes to weave through Gatling gun fire at close range until the chamber ran empty while moving so fast he appeared to be standing still, as well as blitz a precog faster than his thoughts could reach her mind. Like I mentioned, Gene was a master of CQC too, and this made him unbeatable against anyone who did not know CQC, which he proved by stomping fellow metahuman ninja Null. Yet when he tried to take Big Boss on, THE legendary Big Boss, greatest warrior of the 20th century... he got put in his place. Big Boss physically beat him to DEATH.

Same goes for Solid Snake. He didn't even use CQC for most of his career, he had the knowledge but was too shamed by Big Boss's betrayal to use his style. For most of his career Snake used the inferior CQB style, and look how far that took him. So imagine Snake with CQC? Well by 2014 when the world was plunged into a state of eternal warfare and mercenary companies were the backbone of the economy, CQC became mainstream among the private militias. Now EVERYBODY knew the style, so Snake started using it again. Except he was old by this point, accelerated aging put him in the body of a 70 year old man with arthritis, a bad back, an enlarged heart and inflamed lungs, the list goes on. Doctor Naomi stated that the only thing which kept Snake on his feet by that point was the sheer force of his will, and he was scheduled to die within six months. Yet even in such a horrible state, he was still Solid Snake, the legendary hero and greatest fighter in the world. Through his sheer skill he was able to make short work of up to seven nanomachine-enhanced super soldiers in Close Quarters Combat, who were all armed with rifles and had him surrounded, almost casually and without any weapons of his own (he would disarm them and use their weapons against them). Snake did this nonlethally within less than two minutes. And he STILL got fodderized by the equally old Revolver Ocelot, despite having a rifle, a sidearm, and a knife all ready to combat the completely unarmed cowboy, who effortlessly stripped Snake of all his weapons one at a time and completely brutalized him in his own style. Ocelot was such a combat prodigy, he was able to master CQC just through observation and fight one of the style's originators to a stalemate back when he was still a teenager. Yet when Snake was on willpower-overload and fought Ocelot again, both unarmed, he beat him. It was the most grueling duel of his life, but Snake beat him. He is truly the best soldier in the world.

(Also the physical difference between Sam and Dave is quite substantial to say the least)

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Enemybird

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@lubub55 said:

@enemybird: Hahahaha no.

hahahaha Yes. Big Boss has taken on opponents much more capable than these run of the mill action heroes. Need examples?

Gene, Volgin, The End, The, Pain, The Fear, The Boss, Ocelot, Metal Gear RAXA, Metal Gear Zeke, Grey Fox, Pupa AI, Chrysalis AI, Cocoon AI, Peace walker, Countless tanks, helicopters and soldiers. I am sorry but this team stands zero chance of winning.

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deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

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@enemybird: And what feats do these people have? BJ Blazkowicz would beat either Snake in a 1v1, and potentially both at the same time, although not guaranteed. He has taken down legions of Nazi's, giant robots and a Mecha-Hitler. Gordon Freeman could also beat either in a 1v1 and possibly a 2v1. He has fought off an alien invasion, been to their home planet and killed their leader, fought off an army attack and led a resistance and freed humans from a powerful alien force. These 2 could do it alone, and adding 2 more characters to their team only strengthens their chances of winning.

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deactivated-6314d3d11bddb

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Agent 47 is so underrated it a disgusting. I mean this dude really snipes a driver from 4 blocks away from a rooftop.

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Enemybird

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@lubub55 said:

@enemybird: And what feats do these people have? BJ Blazkowicz would beat either Snake in a 1v1, and potentially both at the same time, although not guaranteed. He has taken down legions of Nazi's, giant robots and a Mecha-Hitler. Gordon Freeman could also beat either in a 1v1 and possibly a 2v1. He has fought off an alien invasion, been to their home planet and killed their leader, fought off an army attack and led a resistance and freed humans from a powerful alien force. These 2 could do it alone, and adding 2 more characters to their team only strengthens their chances of winning.

If you don't know who big boss has beaten how can you say he doesn't win? Bias? For an example I've seen speed feats from:

Grey Fox, 12:00

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Gene,

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the boss :40

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Your turn. Show me the feats that put these jokers on a level above these people that failed to kill big boss.

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Enemybird

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Agent 47 is so underrated it a disgusting. I mean this dude really snipes a driver from 4 blocks away from a rooftop.

Big Boss defeated The End and The Fear Those cobra unit member's parasites were used to create the parasites that Skull face used on quiet. In other words,

Quiet =/= The End when it came to sniping ability. Based on what i've seen from Quiet namely when she shot down that jet she is above 47

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Team one.

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Team Snakes

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Team 1

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@enemybird: For the first one,Grey Fox is showing inconsistent feats, being able to stop bullets with a sword one minute and failing to the next. Big Boss is just waiting for him to reload to attack him, something which any of these characters can do. As for Gene, he doesn't look to be that impressive anyway, and I would like to see other feats of his, since this is the only one I know of, and it is hi fighting the person you are making an argument for. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I heard somewhere that Portable Ops isn't canon. As for the last one, it is just Big Boss getting beaten up easily. She didn't "fail" to kill him, she could have if she wanted to. She clearly left him alive.

Let's start with BJ Blazkowicz...

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Here he fights Mecha Hitler...

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Gordon Freeman singlehandedly kills the leader of the invading aliens...

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He also manages to assault and destroy the Citadel, the Combine headquarters on Earth...

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On top of that, he swings his crowbar at ridiculously high speeds, and carries more weapons than the Snakes, and most of it is better. I may go into Fisher's and 47's feats another time, but I am too busy at the minute.