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#1 Edited by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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THANOS DR FATE KNULL AMAZO ULTRON

VS

GORR FERNUS VOID P5 CYCLOPS LARFLEEZE

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MORALS OFF 616 PRE 52 WHO WINS ?

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FIGHT TAKES PLACE HERE

WHO WINS ?

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#3 Posted by skywalker95 (4271 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 Wreck

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#4 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by skywalker95 (4271 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Soratoumiga (2158 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 should take this.

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#8 Posted by green_skaar (12144 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to admit I never heard of Knull and had to look him up, assuming this page is accurate, going with Team 1. Anyone that is a legit threat to Celestials is beyond most or all of Team 2.

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#11 Edited by Cergic (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 one shots. Knull knulls (heh if you are swedish) them with a strike to the face and literally cleaves them out of existence.

In fact, he literally takes control of Team 2 captain Gorr

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#12 Posted by hurricanefunnel (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1 wins in an EXTREMELY close match

team 1 wins based on combined energy

team 1 wins extremely high diff

opposite of a mismatch

this = based on the each character's abilities and skill

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#13 Posted by miekskywalker (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Knull tells his team to focus down gorr once he gets the sword back he should win comftorably

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#14 Posted by destinyman75 (13938 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorr is a beast but Null is the original and would erase home and show him how it's done. Team one wins this

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#15 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#16 Posted by Kingant27 (16899 posts) - - Show Bio

Knull is inconsistent.

Pictured Ultron isn’t anything special.

Could make a case for either team, however edging Team 2 ATM IMO.

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#17 Posted by Laurus (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm an all caps title, and wadda ya know, it's your thread.

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#18 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Which version of Dr Fate? I think that makes a big difference here.

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#19 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. Ultron and Knull don’t belong here. And team 1 doesn’t really have a solid answer to Fernus’ TP.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5c7e935d3a5a1 (302 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Cognitive (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 due to Larfleeze. (Gorr should theoretically win against Knull due to having more feats).

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#22 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by phillip33 (3926 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one pretty solidly. Amazo can copy anyone’s powers here, knoll is powerful enough to solo at full power and so does fate depending on the version.

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#24 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. Ultron and Knull don’t belong here. And team 1 doesn’t really have a solid answer to Fernus’ TP.

I think classic Fate could do something about that.

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#25 Posted by Batvibe12 (5570 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless Knull has some good feats, Team Gorr.

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#26 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio

@batvibe12: knull has he one shotted celestial with necrosword

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#27 Posted by Batvibe12 (5570 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by comic_book_fan (11219 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2

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#30 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Knull can one shot anyone but at the same time he lacks the feats to say he could tank anything from the phoenix force.

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#31 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

Knull can one shot anyone but at the same time he lacks the feats to say he could tank anything from the phoenix force.

Same goes to PF Cyclops. Apart from harming God Doom(which is actually impressive but I don't think its makes any neat difference given Doom broke his neck then and thereafter), all of his fts happened due to plot from AvX.

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#32 Posted by SmoothSanta (2189 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Knull is a damn Celestial killer.

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#33 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Can’t remember any TP feats from Fate that put him on Jonn’s level.

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#34 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Can’t remember any TP feats from Fate that put him on Jonn’s level.

Honestly I'm no expert on classic Fate feats, maybe @beatboks1 can help us.

But, the fact that Fate could tangle with the Spectre on several occasions and not be immediately incapacitated by TP should tell you that he's way above that.

However, here he uses his magical abilities to telepathically sense someone across dimensions:

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And Fate can amp his powers to a level that can be felt across universes:

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#35 Posted by Supermanthor (16300 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#36 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Neither of those are really offensive/defensive TP feats. So I wouldn’t say that’s enough to say he can shut down a TP barrage from one of the most powerful offensive telepaths in DC.

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#37 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Neither of those are really offensive/defensive TP feats. So I wouldn’t say that’s enough to say he can shut down a TP barrage from one of the most powerful offensive telepaths in DC.

I know, but they show his level of power. Since he can use his magical abilities to do things like TP (the first scan), there's no reason to think he cant use that offensively. As far as defensive, like I said he's fought the Spectre and done well against him, being able to hold him off for a while (of course the Spectre would eventually win). If he did not have very high TP resistance, the Spectre would just have taken him down immediately after the fight started.

While someone like Fernus is extremely powerful in TP, I dont think he can actually do much to a classic Dr Fate. If Spectre cant do it, he's not doing it. In this fight, I see him just casting a spell to shut down TP from the other side completely.

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#38 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I don’t believe Spectre has ever tried to mindrape Fate. But if he has that would certainly be a valid enough feat to say that he could last in a TP encounter, but he’d definitely be out the fight. All he’d be doing is stalling Fernus.

And again, that’s IF the Spectre has tried a TP engagement with Fate, which I’m pretty certain he hasn’t. On top of that, Spectre varies wildly. He doesn’t necessarily always have TP superior or even equal to that of MMH.

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#39 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I don’t believe Spectre has ever tried to mindrape Fate. But if he has that would certainly be a valid enough feat to say that he could last in a TP encounter, but he’d definitely be out the fight. All he’d be doing is stalling Fernus.

And again, that’s IF the Spectre has tried a TP engagement with Fate, which I’m pretty certain he hasn’t. On top of that, Spectre varies wildly. He doesn’t necessarily always have TP superior or even equal to that of MMH.

He would not be out of the fight because all he'd have to do is cast a spell just like in the first scan. He can do many things at the same time.

It wasnt explicitly stated that Spectre tried TP on him, but then again the Spectre was trying to take him out and there's no reason to think he just forgot about the glaring weakness if Fate indeed cant defend against it. Spectre won this fight finally by sending Fate through infinite dimensions such that Fate would take too long to get back to continue to oppose Spectre.

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And that brings up another thing that Fate can do here... which is to summon very powerful monsters from the "netherworlds" to fight for him.

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#40 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well if Spectre never used TP against him then we can’t say Fate has a counter for it.

So again, Fernus mindrapes him and that’s it.

I see what you’re saying, Spectre SHOULDVE used TP against him. But its comics, people don’t use powers that they should all the time. So since Fate has no feats showcasing TP power on the scale of Fernus, he gets mindraped just like everyone else.

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#41 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well if Spectre never used TP against him then we can’t say Fate has a counter for it.

So again, Fernus mindrapes him and that’s it.

I see what you’re saying, Spectre SHOULDVE used TP against him. But its comics, people don’t use powers that they should all the time. So since Fate has no feats showcasing TP power on the scale of Fernus, he gets mindraped just like everyone else.

You can assume that if you're only going on feats, but I dont. Oftentimes characters at high levels dont have certain feats because they are irrelevant. Does TOAA have TP resistance feats? If not, he gets mind-raped as well by Fernus. Right?

Sure, in the fight the Spectre didnt outright use TP, but given the situation, it's reasonable to assume that if that was an option he'd know it and he'd have used it. Sure it's speculation, but then again... we're talking about who'd win between fictional characters that dont even occupy the same universes and have never met each other. So speculation and assumptions are the name of the game.

I'm not sure who wins between the two teams, but classic Dr Fate is likely the most powerful entity in Team 1. I'm not that familiar with Knull... maybe he's above Fate. Overall both teams are stacked with very powerful people... the fight could probably go either way.

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#42 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: That’s a poor example, because TOAA has omnipotence, which naturally includes TP. So to answer your rhetorical question, no Fernus can’t mindrape TOAA.

Speculation may be the name of the game, but we like to back that up with feats. Can’t just be applying powers to characters that have never showcased said powers.

And I’d agree that the fight could’ve gone either way...if Team 1 would’ve had someone to protect them from TP. But they don’t, whereas they’re pretty equally matched in other areas. So Team 2 wins.

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#43 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: That’s a poor example, because TOAA has omnipotence, which naturally includes TP. So to answer your rhetorical question, no Fernus can’t mindrape TOAA.

How do you know TOAA is truly omnipotent?

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#44 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well, recently that notion has been questioned in-universe.

But to answer your question, the writers have confirmed it, they’ve confirmed it in universe, it’s a very commonly understood.

Again, you just had a bad question mate. I get your point, but you’re going about it the wrong way.

Fernus can’t mindrape anybody on a completely different cosmic level than him. Fernus has never, to my knowledge, mindraped any multiversal being, or on a multiversal scale, so he couldn’t do so to any multiversal being.

That’s how feats work my man.

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#45 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well, recently that notion has been questioned in-universe.

But to answer your question, the writers have confirmed it, they’ve confirmed it in universe, it’s a very commonly understood.

Again, you just had a bad question mate. I get your point, but you’re going about it the wrong way.

Fernus can’t mindrape anybody on a completely different cosmic level than him. Fernus has never, to my knowledge, mindraped any multiversal being, or on a multiversal scale, so he couldn’t do so to any multiversal being.

That’s how feats work my man.

So you want feats, except when you dont. What happened to:

"Can’t just be applying powers to characters that have never showcased said powers."

Many in Marvel have been described as omnipotent, from Odin, the Galactus, to the Beyonder and the Celestians.

And Fernus cant mindrape anyone who's on a multiversal level, but he can mindrape Dr Fate who I already showed has multiversal-level feats? Dr Fate who once imprisoned Ynar and Vandaemeon, two multiversal entities... one a Lord of Order and the other a Lord of Chaos.

You're not making sense. You made a claim about wanting feats, but then quickly disreguard that for specific characters because it's "commonly understood". But, maybe I dont "commonly understand" it, so how about you give me feats instead. Then you also ignore that Fate is indeed multiversal, which by your second claim would also make him immune from TP from Fernus. You need to make up your mind what rules you want to go by.

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#46 Posted by beatboks1 (9912 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow: @willpayton:

To be honest the only TP feats of Classic Fate I can think of are all from his half helmet era (no Nabu in the mix and no where near the same level of power - very limited magic). During that era he often tp communicated with Inza.

He shouldn't however be MMH level based purely on the grey man story. Grey man mentally dominated Fate and he was released by MMH.

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#47 Posted by beatboks1 (9912 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by willpayton (22076 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow: @willpayton:

To be honest the only TP feats of Classic Fate I can think of are all from his half helmet era (no Nabu in the mix and no where near the same level of power - very limited magic). During that era he often tp communicated with Inza.

He shouldn't however be MMH level based purely on the grey man story. Grey man mentally dominated Fate and he was released by MMH.

I think the reason why there are few or no such feats is because it's kind of irrelevant to him at the level he operates at (in classic form). He was going up against universal and multiversal level threats. As I pointed out above, when he was going against an enraged Spectre, if all the Spectre had to do to stop him was telepathically put him to sleep or some such thing, he'd have done it instead of wasting time and then having to resort to BFR'ing him into infinite dimensions.

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#49 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12335 posts) - - Show Bio

I like team Gorr

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#50 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: What are you talking about? I literally said I always want feats. TOAA has feats.

Dr. Fate is not multiversal in basically every consistent iteration.

Stop putting up strawmen dude.

Even beatboks admitted that Fate would get TP’d by Fernus. The guy you consider an authority on the subject said that Fate has been TP’d by a guy LESS capable than Fernus.

You lost this one dude