Death or KO.
Fox is out to kill.
RWBY are in character.
Yang still has her arm here.
Start 10 feet apart here.
Death or KO.
Fox is out to kill.
RWBY are in character.
Yang still has her arm here.
Start 10 feet apart here.
Um...shouldn't they like stomp???
I dont think so. Not at all by feats. Fox is clearly higher skilled, and has the better weapon. He also is as fast by feats, even to Ruby. The real kicker is he is a 500 toner to a bunch of 10-20 ton strikers.
So I dont see why Team RWBY stomps.
I feel like your trying to bait me.....
@sirfizzwhizz: All that one chick has to do is freeze him right?
@jashro44: I have a mixed opinion on him...but overall my view is positive. I'm certainly not as high on him as nick and fizz...but overall I think he is a solid mid tier. If he decides to go straight invisible then he could wreck...but IDK if he really does that in character or not or if he likes to mix it up visible and invisible...
@sirfizzwhizz: All that one chick has to do is freeze him right?
If she nails him, though 500 tons can easily break the ice with a laughable thought.
@jashro44: I have a mixed opinion on him...but overall my view is positive. I'm certainly not as high on him as nick and fizz...but overall I think he is a solid mid tier. If he decides to go straight invisible then he could wreck...but IDK if he really does that in character or not or if he likes to mix it up visible and invisible...
Form what few feats we have, he uses Invisible attacks on various soldiers, and Ocelot. he also used it on Snake initially, and again if you do not fight fair game mechanics wise. The only time he fought un cloak was against Liquid and Snake.
So mixes it up it seems.
@sirfizzwhizz: So it could be a stomp either way IMO, if he goes pure iniviblse there's nothing they can do but get slaughtered...if he fights visible I still feel like they overwhelm him and stomp. He may or may not be able to break free, but he would be frozen momentarily and get hit with a bunch of attacks from the rest of the group...
@sirfizzwhizz: So it could be a stomp either way IMO, if he goes pure iniviblse there's nothing they can do but get slaughtered...if he fights visible I still feel like they overwhelm him and stomp. He may or may not be able to break free, but he would be frozen momentarily and get hit with a bunch of attacks from the rest of the group...
Fair enough.
So it could be a stomp either way IMO, if he goes pure iniviblse there's nothing they can do but get slaughtered...if he fights visible I still feel like they overwhelm him and stomp. He may or may not be able to break free, but he would be frozen momentarily and get hit with a bunch of attacks from the rest of the group...
This is what I was thinking
@jashro44: I have a mixed opinion on him...but overall my view is positive. I'm certainly not as high on him as nick and fizz...but overall I think he is a solid mid tier. If he decides to go straight invisible then he could wreck...but IDK if he really does that in character or not or if he likes to mix it up visible and invisible...
This is my current view on Gray Fox (assuming composite)
Overall I think Gray Fox is a powerful character but I think it might be possible for street levelers to fight him if they can work around his invisibility. I think Ruby might have a shot of soloing if it weren't for his invisibility.
@jashro44: your assumption is wrong on durability. While he said he felt Snakes blows he never stated they injured him to any real degree. Fox took Rex ramming him into a wall, and two foot stomps after that blunt force wise.
@highaccuser: how do they outclass his speed or strength or durability? He is a 500 toner, took anramming attaco and hen two additional stomps from Rex, and has speed to cut in half dozens of bullets at a time. How does Blake, Yang, Weiss, or Yang outclass these stats? If you mean combining their stats, fine, though it sounds like you feel the individually outclass him lmao.
I just want to throw this out there because people are now spelling gray foxes name wrong but gray is suppose to be spelled with an A. I remember Nick taunted me one time when I spelled gray fox with an E.
@jashro44: your assumption is wrong on durability. While he said he felt Snakes blows he never stated they injured him to any real degree. Fox took Rex ramming him into a wall, and two foot stomps after that blunt force wise.
I remember discussing the rex feat with Nickzambuto. Gray Fox was able to avoid being crushed for a bit but he was crushed eventually. There is a pretty big contrast between class 100 hits and peak human hits. Either snake shouldn't be able to hurt him or snake can and gray fox can't take 100+ tons of damage.
Unless we are assuming gray fox's exo-skeleton is incredibly durable and his internal organs are human, and snake was able to hurt him because his organs were rattling around? That is the only way it makes sense.
@jashro44: itnmakes no more sense than Captain America tanking blows from Hulk or Wolverine losing to Spider Man guys but tanks Hulk blows. I mean, sounds like double standards to me. However, Blunt force wise I recall nothing in the Snake fight as hurting Fox. He freaked out before Snake could have been said to win, and was perfectly fine by action and dialogue with Psycho Mantis right after the snake fight.
Then consider Raiders feats in MGS4 who had the same exo suit treatment from the guy Fox did. There feats are consistent with damage soak and strength.
@jashro44: itnmakes no more sense than Captain America tanking blows from Hulk or Wolverine losing to Spider Man guys but tanks Hulk blows.
Captain America CAN'T tank hulk level blows. He was accidentally one shotted by agent venom.
Wolverine's durability comes from his healing factor and a popular theory with wolverine is that he actually gets knocked out a lot and that he just recovers so fast that no one notices he was ever knocked out. Wolverines durability isn't similar to gray foxes.
Regardless this is a red herring.
I mean, sounds like double standards to me. However, Blunt force wise I recall nothing in the Snake fight as hurting Fox.
You mean aside from the fact Gray fox was on his knees, panting and says "I felt that snake"? Or aside from the fact that during the fight gray fox is screaming "Hurt me more!"?
@jashro44: there is nothing red hearing about it lol. Cap, Winter Soldier, Gambit, Punisher (a lot), Daredevil, Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, and more peak humans have tank blows from 20-100 toners and he fine lol. Don't try to say Inam Red Hering anything. That's superhero fiction.
Yes. He said I felt that. Though in the digital graphic and novel fight he never cries "hurt me more", at all. He never says this in the Cinematic sequence either lol. But whatever mate, you don't like the high ends he has. You just want to focuse on the low ends, I get that, but your being bias here. The common sense of Raiden and other Cyber Ninjas in the MGS franchise abilities and stats as well Fox's own high ends is overlooked blatantly by you, and you are brushing away the high ends of Fox from one single quick fight with Snake. If that is the best case you can make to justify your low opinion of Fox, then that is a weak opinion to me.
@highaccuser: how do they outclass his speed or strength or durability? He is a 500 toner, took anramming attaco and hen two additional stomps from Rex, and has speed to cut in half dozens of bullets at a time. How does Blake, Yang, Weiss, or Yang outclass these stats? If you mean combining their stats, fine, though it sounds like you feel the individually outclass him lmao.
He's not a 500 tonner he caught the leg of the Metal Gear not the full thing. Also IIRC there's one handbook entry that states his strength is only peak human so that feat is very shaky and boarders on just being an inexplicable miracle. Also Yang tanking a hit that sent her across the city is a better quantifiable durability feat anyway and I frankly don't imagine Frank doing massive leaps like Blake and Sun were recently. They were damn near cloud height.
Cutting bullets in half means pretty much nothing at this tier. He doesn't get to lose to Snake and still be this good. I'm not dropping that.
1) He caught the hydraulic empowered foot of a pedal machine and flip it on its ass in some versions. A machine that weighs 550 tons there about. This feat is further supported by Cyborg Ninja suit a Raiden who break dances two 30 ton Geckos like a boss lol.
2) nothing states he is peak Human. Other than human self that was as Null.
3) damn near cloud height lmao. They had to help Ruby scale a small mountain, and Blake need Sun to propel her 1000 feet area. Really...
4) Yang took no hit that sent her across any city. Not that punching matters when a sword can cut her arm off fine.
5) Fox being rammed by 500 tons of momentum moving over dozen MPH is very quantifiable.
6) how he lost to Snake when there fight never finish? Hell he even stated he will hold back that second fight anyway. Now you look silly :)
@sirfizzwhizz: Before I address any of that, what's your answer for MGS4 Raiden who had the same enhancements (possibly better) as Grey Fox getting his arm pinned down under a boulder that was nowhere near 500 tons and struggling with Vamp and in general clearly not possessing notable strength in his arms (though his legs were strong)?
@jashro44: there is nothing red hearing about it lol. Cap, Winter Soldier, Gambit, Punisher (a lot), Daredevil, Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, and more peak humans have tank blows from 20-100 toners and he fine lol. Don't try to say Inam Red Hering anything. That's superhero fiction.
It is a red herring because when have I or anyone else posting in this thread argued that these characters can take 20-100 ton blows? Or when have I or anyone else in this thread argued these characters being beyond "enhanced" durability? Even when I do use feats of 100 tonners hitting people like batman I always make sure to note the force they were hit with can only be quantified based on what is shown or stated on panel. For example:
In instances like these even though the 100 tonners who hit batman are bloodlusted and are actually trying to kill batman I don't argue nonsense like "batman can take hits which launch him into orbit". The way I argue these feats is we can only judge the force that we see these characters exert on panel. For example superman hits batman and sends him flying into the batmobile. Martian manhunter hits batman through some gym equipment, and than tackles him through a wall in the bat cave. And wonder woman slams batmans face into the ground to create a crater.
Basically I would never use these sorts of feats to argue that batman's durability is massively super human and that daredevil would tire himself out from punching batman for days. At best I think there is a middle ground when it comes to feats like these. And what even is your point? Because the characters you listed can take 100 ton level hits than so can gray fox?
Yes. He said I felt that. Though in the digital graphic and novel fight he never cries "hurt me more", at all. He never says this in the Cinematic sequence either lol.
Well the "hurt me more" line is still something scripted into Gray Foxes dialogue. I don't think its really game play mechanics since its scripted.
But whatever mate, you don't like the high ends he has. You just want to focuse on the low ends, I get that, but your being bias here.
Nope. You don't always get to bring up solid snake "defeating gray fox" and than in another thread argue that snake didn't even hurt gray fox. Likewise if I were biased I probably would have said gray fox loses here. I gave him the win.
The common sense of Raiden and other Cyber Ninjas in the MGS franchise abilities and stats as well Fox's own high ends is overlooked blatantly by you, and you are brushing away the high ends of Fox from one single quick fight with Snake.
First of all Raiden is suppose to be an upgraded version of Gray Fox. His feats don't apply to gray fox; and do you not constantly use gray foxes fight with solid snake as a feat for snake? So why am I all of a sudden not allowed to bring up gray fox and snakes fight when its inconvenient to you?
If that is the best case you can make to justify your low opinion of Fox, then that is a weak opinion to me.
I think its fair to argue either Gray Fox has enhanced durability; or that his exo-suit is very durable and his internal organs get bashed around when he fights peak humans like snake. He was hurt by snake. And if people can bring up snake beating gray fox to support snake than it shouldn't be a surprise when people use that same fight in gray fox threads to convey the limit of gray foxes endurance.
1-2) Fair Enough.
3) No, My point is snake taking a punch from Fox. Though I agree mostly with your explanation stricking strength =\= lifting strength. This further makes sense with Raiden vs Vamp too. Though Fox strength would overpower any weapon lockups or grabs.
4) meh, I find it questionable. Maybe he does feel pain still. Fox durability feats vs Rex, and Raidens own suit in MGS4, which is made by the same guy for Fox, make it seem impossible to harm via punches.
5) I don't feel Snake beaten Fox decisively. He kept up in speed enough and out skilled him. Much like Deathstroke with Aquaman or Wonder Woman twice now. If the fight went on to the death, Snake would have died.
6) Raiden suit is not upgraded to the original at all in MGS4 timeline. Infact Raiden underwent the same procedure as Fox by the same guy. The second person to be a Cyborg Ninja. It was not till MGSR timeline that Cyborg Ninjas became more common, and upgrades existed for Raiden.
7) except never beaten Gray Fox. All he did was put skilled Fox and kept up against a holding back Fox in the second fight. Snake did well the first fight in lasting a moment, setting up a possible stalemate, but would died for sure first fight with Fox too.
@highaccuser: I don't see why the heavy boulder matters. Raiden was dragged and crush to hell by 1000s of tons of force. Damaging his arm and losing it as a result after that context is not something to use for your argument.
Now I totally get the struggling Vamp thing. That I'd do get. But then again I have two counters.
1) He engage Vamp in a pretty honorable fight considering his options, and taken note Raiden was still weaken from blood loss the second fight. The first fight had little to do with strength. Vamp had full healing on Deadpool level the first fight, and mostly dodge Raidens blows anyway.
2) maybe it's the simple fact lifting strength =\= stricking strength.
I am leaning to the latter due to Jashro argument.
3) No, My point is snake taking a punch from Fox. Though I agree mostly with your explanation stricking strength =\= lifting strength. This further makes sense with Raiden vs Vamp too. Though Fox strength would overpower any weapon lockups or grabs.
OK.
4) meh, I find it questionable. Maybe he does feel pain still. Fox durability feats vs Rex, and Raidens own suit in MGS4, which is made by the same guy for Fox, make it seem impossible to harm via punches.
Well I mean he says during the game that he feels pain. Unless your arguing its inconsistent.
5) I don't feel Snake beaten Fox decisively. He kept up in speed enough and out skilled him. Much like Deathstroke with Aquaman or Wonder Woman twice now. If the fight went on to the death, Snake would have died.
Deathstrokes fight with wonder woman is bad writing since it was actually said that deathstroke is faster than wonder woman (and common sense will tell you that he isn't). Aquaman isn't a speedster and Slade used a flash bang against him. Yes Slade has fought out of his weight class but those aren't the best examples....
6) Raiden suit is not upgraded to the original at all in MGS4 timeline. Infact Raiden underwent the same procedure as Fox by the same guy. The second person to be a Cyborg Ninja. It was not till MGSR timeline that Cyborg Ninjas became more common, and upgrades existed for Raiden.
Well Raiden didn't even bleed blood in metal gear solid 4 so that right there shows he is different from fox.
7) except never beaten Gray Fox. All he did was put skilled Fox and kept up against a holding back Fox in the second fight. Snake did well the first fight in lasting a moment, setting up a possible stalemate, but would died for sure first fight with Fox too.
OK.... But what does this have to do with durability?
2) well, in the bio he is stated to have sloppy work done on his nerve endings, done on purpose from Para Medic so Fox is in a constant state of agony, relying on drugs 24/7 to control it. So why Snakes blows are felt at all through a ripped up Nervous System.....
3) there is tons of examples and I won't go through them all of Street guys tanking well over their weight class.
4) I say you have a point, except for this.
'A chassis patterned after Gray Fox's body circa the Shadow Moses incident, but functionally equivalent to recent cyborg bodies. Though it was termed an "exoskeleton" in those days before the advent of modern cyborg technology, it could not be taken on and off at will.' - Gray Fox description in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
So by this, Fox equivalant of the MGSR cyborgs. Add to this, Cyborg Ninja was a product of several dozen research experiments. Altering him with cybernetics and genes therapy. Then all that research was destroyed. Side note I was wrong on the same man making Raiden as Fox. The research was all destroyed, nothing left, but the guy who made the older Metal Gears starting from scratch replicated that research to make Raiden. Add to this, Raden body is not superpowered. The exo skelleton is the super stats. Nothing about his armror is better by lore or descriptions. No reason at all that Raiden is not a good standard in MGS4.
5) my point of the Snake and Fox fight is referring to the argument of Snake beating him when he never did, or could IMO.
2) well, in the bio he is stated to have sloppy work done on his nerve endings, done on purpose from Para Medic so Fox is in a constant state of agony, relying on drugs 24/7 to control it. So why Snakes blows are felt at all through a ripped up Nervous System.....
Bad writing? Or maybe gray fox didn't take his drugs when he was in shadow moses?
3) there is tons of examples and I won't go through them all of Street guys tanking well over their weight class.
OK but keep in mind what I said above.
4) I say you have a point, except for this.
'A chassis patterned after Gray Fox's body circa the Shadow Moses incident, but functionally equivalent to recent cyborg bodies. Though it was termed an "exoskeleton" in those days before the advent of modern cyborg technology, it could not be taken on and off at will.' - Gray Fox description in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
So by this, Fox equivalant of the MGSR cyborgs. No reason at all that Raiden is not a good standard in MGS4.
Fair enough.
5) my point of the Snake and Fox fight is referring to the argument of Snake beating him when he never did, or could IMO.
Alright.
1) yeah, Fox had no drugs at all. He killed everyone and was out of medicine for awhile. It was the stated reason he freaked out from built up agony and nerve action causing the electrical discharge. So Cyborg Raiden claim.
I do believe ruby's combat speed aint as fast as gray fox who was casually blocking bullets from a rapid fire gun which is a famas. This is no stomp at all. I really dont see them beating gray fox nor have they dealt with anyone like gray fox.
@highaccuser: He caught a leg of a robot trying to squash him. The applied force would have already gone beyond 500 tons. His combat speed is clearly faster than the eye could see. Casually blocking submachine gun fire while making it appear he wasnt weilding his sword was already something. The rwby team aint that hypersonic yet.
YUP!
Feats for grey fox?
Fox is the only member of the unit to receive the title Fox in Foxhound for his outstanding work in infiltration and war missions. He was stated to be at the time of outer heaven the best mercenary in the world. He was also the go to soldier for the Gene Research to make the Genome Soldiers much like Big Boss was the go to guy for the Snake Clones.
As Cyborg Ninja he is able to detect minuet movements from the air itself.
Stated that Fox is skilled enough to movement read, and learn a ennemies movement faster than any normal human could. Also stated that Fox was the only human to complete this Perfect Soldier Project and conditioning.
Kills enhance humans (Genome Soldiers) with a blow. Causing large dents and craters in the metal wall with the soldiers bodies.
Easily kicks with great force this slab of concrete that easily weighs near 1000s of pounds.
In both the Playstation game and official comic adaptation we see Fox catch the foot stomp of the 500 ton Metal Gear Rex. Even throwing the leg off him causing Rex to fall over.
In both the Playstation game and official comic adaptation Fox is able to withstand the 500 ton Rex slamming him at full charge into the wall. Then foot stomps him after this. After both forms of attack Fox is able to stay alive, and cause some damage still.
As a human still, Fox was able to cut into pieces 4 soldiers faster than they could see, or realize they been cut to pieces at all.
As a human still, 4 soldiers are mere foot away from Fox before he decides to take any action, and cuts them all to pieces last second.
Fox as a human is fully able to block, and cut out of the air the bullets of accomplish marksmen like Big Boss himself.
Fox fully able to after image his sword to parry full auto gun fire at point blank range with ease.
Fox cuts a bullet in half, after it is fired by Solid Snake.
Fox at point blank range cuts four bullets fired from Ocelot out of the air.
Fox cuts out of the air the near hyper sonic rounds of a Vulcan Canon. In one cut scene he cuts down several while in mid air.
Liquid Snake can shoot out of the sky sonic speed fighter jets with a Hind attack copter, in a blizzard. A impossible feat of accuracy. In the best condition withing Rex, Liquid is unable to tag Fox. Fox is dancing around near hyper sonic Vulcan Canon ammunition.
In both the Playstation game and official comic adaptation Fox is able to speed blitz Ocelot himself, and then cut down the various trip wires connected to C4 explosives with such speed that the explosives do not even register to go off right away.
Gray Fox moves too fast for Solid to see, and wrecks the room around Snake as a unseen blur.
The Fox Blade is a High Frequency Blade that is on par with Raidens best weapon, the Murasama Blade.
The Sun Canon is a weapon attachment. It fires energy bolts equal to the Stinger Missile Launcher. Damaging the Raydom that the Stinger Missile Launcher itself failed to damage.
Gray Fox suit is a unique combination an Exoskeleton combine with cybernetics and gene therapy. It is a suit made and perfected over many decades of research. Research that was completely lost in fire thanks to Naomi. Research of the more modern Cyborg Bodies was built from scratch. It is suggested that the Cyborg Ninja project with Exo Skeleton combine with gene therapy and cybernetics made Grey Fox more than a match for the modern Cyborgs of MGR timeline.
This suit also packs a near perfect stealth camouflage. Which Fox can use in combat.
@sirfizzwhizz: Thats why I really dont see team rwby capable of taking out fox. The high frequency blade is more than enough to deplete their auras in one go. With the way the blade works it can cut virtually anything so that kinda render's yang's semblance useless. In terms of combat speed I only find them supersonic at best. Blocking famas fire bullet by bullet proves he was already good enough to be hypersonic at least. I dont really find this fair for rwby let alone have him use the stealth camo.
@sirfizzwhizz: a little late with my response but yeah, I don't see how team rwby wouldn't win based off what you shown.
@thewatcherking: A lot of damage soak, more fluid combat, has an H/F blade that doesn't care if you can take a Nuke or you are immune to rockets. Most RWBY weapons are titanium. H/F went as far as cutting carbon nanotubes. Also none of team RWBY should be capable of harming Fox enough before they get sliced to pieces. When Fox could move faster than Snake could see Snake was also capable of dodging bullets and could react to Railgun fire which is a lot faster than a bullet. Fox was also deflecting Famas rounds with absolute ease and this is a submachine gun. He just walked up to the soldier shooting straight at him and keep in mind he wasn't dodging but doing full swings deflecting bullets a few feet away before cutting him down. Keep in mind he was able to dodge each individual bullet from Rex's dual machine guns that could destroy Gekkos in seconds which are as durable as tanks. He is also a lot, A LOT, stronger than the team combined. Fox has more than enough feats to take down Qrow.
@thewatcherking: A lot of damage soak, more fluid combat, has an H/F blade.
Damage soak won't help you when you're dealing with people who can cut you in half, and based on the durability feats shown nothing says Ruby or Blake couldn't.The deal is sealed when you look at the speed feats and see that Grey isn't faster than Team RWBY.
@thewatcherking: I edited my post. Check them all. They have no way of cutting him down.
@thewatcherking: You also have to consider that team RWBY has never beat anyone on the cyborg ninja caliber. Raiden for example was able to get shot right through a mech the size of a kaiju that could tank nukes knowing Rex being 5x smaller is able to do so. Fox was comparable to modern cyborgs. Actually the most successful. More powerful than mgs 4 Raiden.
@thestarwarsguy: Good luck dealing with his strength and speed. He is much faster. Blocking famas bullets while walking up close and personal with absolute ease. Keep in mind these shoot a lot faster than the ones Blake deflected and he was onle a few feet away. Moved so fast Solid Snake ( who reacts to mach 7 railgun rounds ) could not see, and dodged each and every individual bullet from Rex whose DUAL vulcan canons ( pierces tanks, is faster than regular rifle rounds ). Also the H/F blade one shots them.
@jashro44: Solid Snake did not hurt Gray Fox. Gray Fox only felt the pain he longs for. That longing made him rather sensitive to the feeling.
@jashro44: Solid Snake did not hurt Gray Fox. Gray Fox only felt the pain he longs for. That longing made him rather sensitive to the feeling.
Feeling pain from snake means little durability wise anyway with feats like this.
In both the Playstation game and official comic adaptation Fox is able to withstand the 500 ton Rex slamming him at full charge into the wall. Then foot stomps him after this. After both forms of attack Fox is able to stay alive, and cause some damage still.
Just saying.
Fox could put down the girls and Qrow all at once. It is debatable if Snake can beat either team members. They are nothing new. Fox who is vastly more experienced. Is so much faster I am pretty sure they won't see Fox coming with or without camoflouge. Also how is titanium weapons supposed to harm Fox when he is made from stuff that is over 100x stronger than steel.
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