Team metal vs the Red Lotus

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vengefulshot

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#1  Edited By vengefulshot
Lin, Su, Toph and Kuvira
Lin, Su, Toph and Kuvira

VS

Ghazan, Zaheer, Ming Hua and P'li
Ghazan, Zaheer, Ming Hua and P'li
  • IC but determined to win
  • Zaheer cannot fly but has his staff
  • Battle takes place in Zaofu
  • Standard gear for team metal
  • Ming Hua has enough water for 2 arms
  • Show and comic feats allowed
  • This is Toph as of imbalance
  • Time is perpetual twilight
  • Random encounter, no prep
  • Basic knowledge
  • Starting distance of 15 feet

Round 1: Team metal can metalbend only, only Ghazan can earthbend

Round 2: Team metal can earthbend only, no metalbending including no metalbending of gear

Round 3: Earth and metalbending on, MingHua has enough water for 8 arms.

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vengefulshot

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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I think this is the second Metal Clan vs Red Lotus thread, although the first had Korra instead of Toph and Void Zaheer.

Anyhow, Kuvira is seriously hindered by lacking earthbending OR metalbending, because it's her combination of those that makes her so deadly, and every single member of the Red Lotus is a bad match up for Toph, for different reasons (Zaheer and Ming Hua are agile, Ghazan has lava, and I don't think she can handle combustion at all due to sensing issues) which makes the first two rounds one sided.

Round 1: Team metal can metalbend only, only Ghazan can earthbend

Red Lotus mid-dif at most. Just metalbending limits Toph a lot and hurts Kuvira quite a bit as well (Lin and Suyin are less affected, but still hindered). Individual match ups favor the Red Lotus by quite a bit (P'li beats anyone with the possible exception of Kuvira based on distance, Ghazan probably beats Lin, Suyin, or Toph, Zaheer can beat anyone here IMO and Ming can probably do so as well). A team fight is also an easy win for the Red Lotus; lava moat + combustion bending is too much for the Metal Clan to deal with.

Round 2: Team metal can earthbend only, no metalbending including no metalbending of gear

Red Lotus low-dif at most. Individual match ups are one sided; Toph could lose to anyone here and definitely loses to P'li and everyone else gets beaten by anyone. P'li could probably solo the modern benders restricted to just earthbending. A team fight is equally one sided; the Metal Clan can't defend against combustion or get through Ghazan's lava moat.

Round 3: Earth and metalbending on, MingHua has enough water for 8 arms.

Could go either way, but I narrowly favor the Metal Clan. Individual match ups favor the Metal Clan: Lin and Suyin can beat Ghazan or Zaheer, and maybe Ming, Kuvira might be able to take everyone in this environment, with distance being the deciding factor, Toph still struggles due to match up advantages, but I could see her beating anyone but P'li with both earth and metal). A team fight favors the RL because of the aforementioned moat + combustion that they used last time they were in Zaofu, so it depends on how the fight breaks down. P'li might be able to carry the Red Lotus, as she's probably the strongest here.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Round 1) Ming takes down Toph with the agility and speed advantage. P’li takes down anyone that she fights. Zaheer can stall Kuvira until Ming comes to help. Ghazan can stall Lin until P’li comes to help.

Round 2) P’li could solo, but her and Ming duo easily, the only way to defeat a combustion bender is by either using their power against them (as shown in the show), or overpowering them which is only achievable by the avatar state. The metal team has no defense good enough to counter P’li’s agility coupled with her raw power.

Round 3) Ming solos Toph. P’li solos Su. Ghazan can’t tag Lin due to her massive speed and agility edge, but Ming will defeat Toph first and then help him take Lin out. Zaheer defends against Kuvira until P’li blows her up.

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vengefulshot

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@mialthefencer: Kuvira with just metal was able to contend with an angry Korra in the finale, though the environment was more favourable and Korra lacked water.

You think Ming with just two arms can beat anyone here?

You reminded me I didn’t set a starting distance so I’ll add one.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@vengefulshot: Ming with 2 arms fodderized Mako in a neutral environment which I don’t see any of the metal team replicating (Kuvira can only do this with the combination of metal and earth)

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@vengefulshot:

Kuvira with just metal was able to contend with an angry Korra in the finale, though the environment was more favourable and Korra lacked water.

It's not so much earthbending per-say that Kuvira needs, it's the environmental manipulation that goes along with that. In an all-metal environment she doesn't need it, but in a more neutral area like Zaofu, being restricted to just throwing projectiles isn't going to cut it.

You think Ming with just two arms can beat anyone here?

Depends on the round. Definitely not round 3, but she could probably do it with the Metal Clan restricted. They can't remove her water (since they don't have evaporation) so I don't think the lack of water is a huge deal, and IMO two arms Ming has better feats than octo-Ming anyways, but YMMV. Her style is a really good counter to both pure metal (incap techniques aren't going to work too well against a nigh-psychic bender) and pure earth (grounded offense doesn't work against an aerial fighter, and she can smash smaller boulders). IMO, Toph could probably take her with just earth without anything to swing from, but I think she can beat anyone else here restricted to just earth or metalbending. Kuvira in particular needs both to be fully effective in this fight, and Lin and Suyin aren't as good as Ming in general IMO.

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@vengefulshot said:

Kuvira with just metal was able to contend with an angry Korra in the finale, though the environment was more favourable and Korra lacked water.

Kuvira uses her earthbending mostly to unbalance her opponents through enviromental attacks. She was able to do the exact same in her fight in the cockpit, as the whole room was made out of metal. She didn't really miss earth there. In this fight the ground isn't made out of metal, so her lack of earthbending would hurt her quite a bit.

As for the fight, I think Mial summed it up very well.

Edit: F, Mial already said this.

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geekryan

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R1 and R3 go to the Beifongs + Kuvira. R2 goes to the Red Lotus.

Close fights each round though

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viking1205

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R1: Red Lotus high difficulty

R2: Red Lotus mid-high difficulty

R3: Metal Clan high difficulty

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Tektonic

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R1: Red Lotus high difficulty

R2: Red Lotus mid-high difficulty

R3: Metal Clan high difficulty

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chloros

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Round 1: Team metal can metalbend only, only Ghazan can earthbend

  • All the Zaofu metal will help them to defend against Ghazan's lava and P'Li's combustion blasts. I can see them putting up a really good defense. Metal cables and sheets are also good against Zaheer. I'm thinking a cable could be used to incapacitated him a bit like Kya's water arm, and the sheets can destroy his glider. I know these circumstances are different so it wouldn't work the same way, but it's a possibility. Defending against Ming-Hua will be harder, as they don't really have a strong counter to her. Oh wait, when you say Ghazan can only earthbend does that mean no lava for him? If he doesn't have lava he is a definite weak link.

Round 2: Team metal can earthbend only, no metalbending including no metalbending of gear

  • This one puts the metal team in an awkward spot, as three of them heavily rely on metalbending as their biggest strength. Toph is the strongest earthbender here, but I don't see it being enough to win it for the team. They are much to vulnerable.

Round 3: Earth and metalbending on, MingHua has enough water for 8 arms.

  • With earth and metal back on, the team can pull this off for the majority. It gives them a solid combination of defense and offence. The location couldn't be better suited for them with these bendables in mind. I still think dealing with Ming-Hua will still be difficult though. But Zaheer and Ghazan are going down fast enough for the others to duo up against the Red Lotus ladies.
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red lotus barely ever used more than 10% of their potential and power

metal stomps all rounds

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BigDreamer48

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Round 1: Ghazan's a bit of a weak link with only earthbending against the metalbenders, but if Zaheer can take out Toph or Kuvira relatively quickly, then I could see RL winning. The distance also gives P'Li a much bigger advantage, and Ming-Hua can probably 1 vs. 1 any of them. Zaheer might even be able to as well. Air is a good counter to metal and he's very mobile. Favoring Red Lotus.

Round 2 goes to the Red Lotus for sure but after a decent fight. Only earth makes team metal much more vulnerable to P'Li and Ghazan's lava (he still has it right?).

Round 3: Ming-Hua is very dangerous here, but Zaheer is going to have a much harder time and they can defend better against P'Li. Narrowly thinking the metal clan.

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freestyler1999

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@chloros said:

Round 1: Team metal can metalbend only, only Ghazan can earthbend

  • All the Zaofu metal will help them to defend against Ghazan's lava and P'Li's combustion blasts. I can see them putting up a really good defense. Metal cables and sheets are also good against Zaheer. I'm thinking a cable could be used to incapacitated him a bit like Kya's water arm, and the sheets can destroy his glider. I know these circumstances are different so it wouldn't work the same way, but it's a possibility. Defending against Ming-Hua will be harder, as they don't really have a strong counter to her. Oh wait, when you say Ghazan can only earthbend does that mean no lava for him? If he doesn't have lava he is a definite weak link.

Round 2: Team metal can earthbend only, no metalbending including no metalbending of gear

  • This one puts the metal team in an awkward spot, as three of them heavily rely on metalbending as their biggest strength. Toph is the strongest earthbender here, but I don't see it being enough to win it for the team. They are much to vulnerable.

Round 3: Earth and metalbending on, MingHua has enough water for 8 arms.

  • With earth and metal back on, the team can pull this off for the majority. It gives them a solid combination of defense and offence. The location couldn't be better suited for them with these bendables in mind. I still think dealing with Ming-Hua will still be difficult though. But Zaheer and Ghazan are going down fast enough for the others to duo up against the Red Lotus ladies.

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FanFeatRT

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r1: lotus r2+r3 metal team

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Aystarr

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@vengefulshot: I love how I'm not in my taglist, my life in a nutshell, lol.

Honestly, I see them winning r3 only. They lack the resources to win r1 and r2

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#19  Edited By Aystarr
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deactivated-5f19437aca87d

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it would be interesting a 4 round where zaheer can fly

Is there anyone who can use ironbender and lavabender?

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RL stomp up every round, the sisters are so weak.

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byondeon

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RL wins first 2 rounds in close fights.

Round 3 goes to the metal clan. Ming is overrated

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vengefulshot

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bump

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chloros

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The Red Lotus for the first two rounds and Team Metal for the final one. For the last round, with both earth and metal available in Zaofu they have the means to block Ghazan's lava and P'Li's combustion. They are also all familiar with how to take down a Combustionbender (not that it would be easy, but still). They will be able to set up a solid defense and offence. I don't see Toph being at that much of a disadvantage because it's not like the others are just going to leave her vulnerable to Zaheer gliding over her or something. And Ming-Hua even with eight arms is going to have a difficult time closing in on them.

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Aystarr

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P'li and Minghua Carry round 1.

R2- Red lotus wins again, Suyin and Kuvira are just above average earthbenders at best don't think they can stand up to anyone here,lin is slightly better but she's not doing much against them either.

R3- the earthbenders are big deals in this location, anyone is beating Ghazan or pre flight Zaheer, they can stand up to ming and thier sturdier defenses with metal makes it hard for P'li , team earth should win this.