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#2 Edited by CaM_CaSh (666 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.

Michael vs Tribunal, Michael.

Lucifer vs Fulcrum, Stalemate?

Death vs Thanos IG, Thanos.

Mr Mxyzptlk vs Molecule Man, Mxy.

Dream vs Oblivion, Stalemate?

GEB vs Dr Doom, GEB.

Team Lucifer wins.

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#3 Posted by TheSuperor (6938 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Lucifer

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#4 Posted by cosmic_reign (3675 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

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#5 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

Any of them can solo team 1, except maybe Fulcrum, no idea who he really is, but he seems to be Jack Kirby as in an aspect of The One Above All, if it is so, then he too solos.

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#6 Posted by tj850 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1, Lucifers team blinks

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#7 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (4047 posts) - - Show Bio

Serious stomp for team marvel, living tribunal solos , so does ig Thanos so does god emperor doom

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#8 Posted by Theanalyser (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 stomps, GEB shouldn't be here

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#9 Posted by blackknighting (408 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. GEB is presence lvl, endless keep it at mismatch.

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#10 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

oh dear god

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#11 Edited by Homifred (361 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer alone solos since he pretty much transcended the Presence's plan becoming his equal. The Presence is implied to be the One Above All.

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#12 Edited by MorningDawn12 (255 posts) - - Show Bio

https://i.imgur.com/IiD0etO.jpg

A book created from the shadow of the destiny's true book

was said to have the power to control all the known and unknown universes and all of space and time in the creation

https://imgur.com/vAlfKT3

Just the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within the true book

A book that's made from the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within Destiny's book can destroy infinite universes, know and unknown and all of space and time in creation

Basically containing a fraction of what's written in the shadow of the shadow of book of destiny gives even mortals enough power to Control all Known and unknown universes

His book was given to him by Father Time

whose union with Mother Night is what makes the universe, all versions of it possible

Father Time and Mother Night are the base of the multiverse, without them the Multiverse is impossible

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • The Endless are just side effects of Creation that Michael and Lucifer helped created
  • Death killed Dream with a touch
  • Death killed Destiny with a touch
  • Destiny's book contains the entire DC Multiverse, Including the Book of Infinite Pages that contains every story in DC.So Destiny's book contains an omniverse
  • Dream puts The Ultimator to sleep
  • The Dreaming containing all which is not, was not, and shall never be.Every dream is reality in the Dreaming
  • The Dreamstone created by Dr Destiny, an inferior imitation of the original Metarioptikon was capable of creating infinite universes (which is only a fraction of Dreams power

Feats done with fraction of Dream's power

it's stated the ruby (materioptikon) can turn dreams into matter:

http://i.imgur.com/nAOXWq3.jpg

He apparently made contact with the dream-continuum due to meditation. He also says that his mind is very powerful due to the exposure to the Materioptikon and that he somehow tapped into a cosmic energy source with which he can now create reality in the dream-world.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/DoctorDestiny68.jpg

fraction the dreams power..has been used to reshape reality itself”http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/DoctorDestiny68.jpg

The following scans are from JLA: classified 4th parallel.

To summarize the arc, the red king has taken control of the materioptikon and through it he was able to create infinite versions of himself in infinite realities hoping that one version of himself would rule his reality/world:

JLA classified #33

Here, it is explained that red king ran infinite versions of himself through infinite possibilities, and only three are left and by creating alternate versions of himself he was actually creating alternate universes which contains those versions in hope that one of them would end up ruling the world, JLA classified #36

http://i.imgur.com/nzYdDnV.jpg

Here the red king says that we have 3 realities running at once (confirming that each version of himself is in a separate reality):

http://i.imgur.com/oNHpofX.jpg

JLA classified #36

And if somehow this isn't enough proof, batman says that through the materioptikon red king

was able to create a multiple realities in hopes that one of them would succeed to rule his world, and only 2 maybe 3 exist:

http://i.imgur.com/4yFm2qe.jpg

In the first page of the issue, it's stated that red king created infinite versions of himself and the ones that failed were destroyed and only 3 are left, proving that he created infinite universes/realities:

http://i.imgur.com/YT97H6d.jpg

More emphasis on the materioptikon

JLA classified #32:

It's stated that all of existence is threatened by it:

http://i.imgur.com/0YZCNZY.jpg

It casually destroys a universe/possibility:

In that same scan above, Destiny references the 6 billion facets, these are references to the 6 billion universes that were mentioned in the story arc, these 6 billion universes were still there even after the Red King reduced the infinite universes the materioptikon created, to 3 universes, and Destiny was using the materioptikon to remove those 6 billion universes.

http://i.imgur.com/ySIktyX.jpg

The original Creation that Lucifer and Michael helped created is a multiverse(DCU)

No Caption Provided

So even if you believe that Lucifers creation is just a universe it won't change the fact that Lucifer did once help create the original universe (that turned into a multiverse)

And Lucifers creation is a totality, a creation he spawned in the void itself outside Destinys book(DC multiverse) which is similar to the creation of the original universe

DC team wins

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#13 Posted by Tedirey (2855 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Infinity Gauntlet shouldn't be here. It's only universal.

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#14 Posted by Aatroxxx (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

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#15 Posted by Batvibe12 (5762 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#16 Posted by EzraArcher (1166 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#17 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

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#18 Edited by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: An extra person and better heavy hitters. The LT is the biggest threat on team 2 IMO and if what I heard about The GBE is true, it and either Lucifer and Michael can double team to hold Tribunal off why the other matchups happen. Though Mxy is useless. It can go either way but I lean toward Team 1 for the majority.

What's your opinion on this matchup? I'm not too familiar with many of these characters so it's just a hear-say.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Well, I've debated similar matchups countless times, so I already know who wins purely based off of debating this so many times.

IG>>> Lucifer and Michael, its not even a question at this point.

Pre-Retcon MM could beat Mxy assuming he doesn't get WF feats.

The rest are more or less evenly matched; but with Thanos finising Michael and Lucy up quickly, he'll take out both Dream and Death casually and GBE is mostly hype without feats.

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#21 Edited by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: I don't know anything about Dream and Death sadly, but isn't GBE > Thanos?

Also how do you think the LT factors in?

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: GBE is probably above Thanos, but I find it highly unlikely he's above LT, who dwarfs the IG in power.

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#23 Posted by CaM_CaSh (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: IG >> Lucifer or Michael? Lol. Since when? Either of them vaporize him with a mere touch.

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#24 Posted by Omega_101 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@cam_cash said:

@jardinain2: IG >> Lucifer or Michael? Lol. Since when? Either of them vaporize him with a mere touch.

Sigh, why did I even post here.

Alright lets do this, based on what can Lucy or Michael "vaporize him with a mere touch", if the IG dwarfs beings who are well above multiversal?

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#26 Posted by TheSandman31 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey said:

Team 1. Infinity Gauntlet shouldn't be here. It's only universal.

Based on what???

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#28 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: GBE is probably above Thanos, but I find it highly unlikely he's above LT, who dwarfs the IG in power.

Alright then. I guess I was wrong.

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#29 Posted by Tedirey (2855 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey said:

Team 1. Infinity Gauntlet shouldn't be here. It's only universal.

Based on what???

It didn't work in the DCU during the canon JLA/Avengers. In fact, there are multiple versions of the IG in the Marvel multiverse.

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#30 Posted by Tedirey (2855 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2:

Also, during the council of Reed Richards storyline, I think Fantastic Four issue 570+ ?, there are 3 versions of Mr. Fantastic along with the 616 version and they all have an IG and it didn't work outside of their respective universe.

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#31 Edited by CaM_CaSh (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: who has Thanos w/IG beat who is 'multiversal'? And before you say eternity, he is not multiversal. Multi-eternity is multiversal.

Meanwhile Michael and Lucifer are REALLY far above multiversal.

Michael:

"He is the demiurge. God chose him as his second. Now, as God's mark fades and creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment... He writes God's name afresh on every atom of existence." - Michael is responsible for every atom in creation, his power is a continuous source that works simultaneously in all of creation.

Michael's regeneration created a new creation in the Void, which Lucifer created his own multiverse with.

"There is a power within me. The dunamis demiurgos. God's power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists" - Michaels power is unrivalled. His power is above anything that exists.

"Spare me the moral. You know what I am, and what I contain. By torturing me, you put the whole of creation at terrible risk" - torturing Michael could end all of creation.

"You could have ended the war right then, ended all of us with a gesture" - Michael's Demiurge power could have ended a war in heaven with a gesture.

That should be enough to prove Michael is far above The Gauntlet.

Lucifer:

A book created from the shadow of the destiny's true book was said to have the power to control all the known and unknown universes and all of space and time in the creation

Just the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within the true book. A book that's made from the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within Destiny's book can destroy infinite universes, know and unknown and all of space and time in creation

Lucifer destroyed pages of Destiny's book.

That's already a multiversal feat

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

Shit, this is going to be even easier than the last few times.

@tedirey said:
@jardinain2 said:
@tedirey said:

Team 1. Infinity Gauntlet shouldn't be here. It's only universal.

Based on what???

It didn't work in the DCU during the canon JLA/Avengers. In fact, there are multiple versions of the IG in the Marvel multiverse.

@tedirey said:

Alright, lets break down your "argument" shall we?

It didn't work in the DCU during the canon JLA/Avengers.

Ah, I see. So I wouldn't be incorrect in assuming that you have substantial amounts of proof that this is indeed canon right? Or that the guidebooks, or any characters within Marvel or DC would have referenced this enormous event right? DC/Marvel have had multiple canon crossovers, Spectrum/Green Lanterns comes to mind, and it was referenced in Spectrum's guidebook, so what you got?

In fact, there are multiple versions of the IG in the Marvel multiverse.

Yes, the typical "there are multiple of them, therefore its not multiversal" argument, how nice.

First off, the amount present in a creation doesn't signify its power in this case. The Gauntlet has been used (pre-Hickman) for many, many multiversal feats. The burden of proof is on you to debunk the feats before you start using Current IG for your argument.

Also, during the council of Reed Richards storyline, I think Fantastic Four issue 570+ ?, there are 3 versions of Mr. Fantastic along with the 616 version and they all have an IG and it didn't work outside of their respective universe.

Again, all you're doing is using the Current IG's universal power, to try to demonstrate how the CLASSIC IG isn't multiversal, that doesn't make sense.

@cam_cash

who has Thanos w/IG beat who is 'multiversal'? And before you say eternity, he is not multiversal. Multi-eternity is multiversal

Oh holy shit, how is this still an excuse lmfao.

First off, prove that Multi-Eternity exists PRE-SECRET WARS. Then, prove that 616 Eternity isn't multiversal. Ill wait.

Meanwhile Michael and Lucifer are REALLY far above multiversal.

No Caption Provided

"He is the demiurge. God chose him as his second. Now, as God's mark fades and creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment... He writes God's name afresh on every atom of existence." - Michael is responsible for every atom in creation, his power is a continuous source that works simultaneously in all of creation.

Oh look, an at best multiversal feat. Man, you really weren't kidding, so far above multiversal right?

Either way, Eternity being the embodiment of a universe of equal size to Vertigo and constantly rebirthing it > Michaels feat.

Michael's regeneration created a new creation in the Void, which Lucifer created his own multiverse with.

"There is a power within me. The dunamis demiurgos. God's power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists" - Michaels power is unrivalled. His power is above anything that exists.

Maybe I'm semi-literate over here, but uh, since he has to die to, you know: actually release a "creation" busting attack, doesn't that kinda nullify the feat in its entirety? Eternity's power was used to re-create the multiverse casually, without having to die. Unless you are somehow capable of proving that Vertigo's (constantly referred to as a universe) creation is somehow larger than a single Marvel Multiverse, how is that feat "REALLY far above multiversal"?

"You could have ended the war right then, ended all of us with a gesture" - Michael's Demiurge power could have ended a war in heaven with a gesture.

Ohhhhh!! Statements! My favorite!

A book created from the shadow of the destiny's true book was said to have the power to control all the known and unknown universes and all of space and time in the creation

Ohhhhh!! Statements! My favorite!

Just the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within the true book. A book that's made from the shadow of the shadow of the knowledge contained within Destiny's book can destroy infinite universes, know and unknown and all of space and time in creation

Ohhhhh!! Statements! My favorite!

Lucifer destroyed pages of Destiny's book.

Say, does that book have, like, durability feats orrrr?

Also, you got scans for any of your arguments?

That's already a multiversal feat

Riiight, but didn't you say something along the lines of "REALLY far above multivesal". So far, if I were to talk you at your word (despite showing no evidence) the best feats you have are only multiversal, of which Eternity has done better; and you wanna take a stab at who Thanos wtfstomped with the Infinity Gauntlet?

=====================================================

Lemme know when you guys got something else.

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#33 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

Both Micheal and Lucifer are massively overhyped.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

Both Micheal and Lucifer are massively overhyped.

Why the change of heart?

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: I argued it multiple times, every time getting debunked.

So i did some research on my own and failed to find any "Multiversal feats" for either of them.

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#36 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: We have done our work. All is well in the land.

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#37 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17021 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

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#38 Posted by decaf_wizard (17064 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom solos

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by decaf_wizard (17064 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard said:

Doom solos

Why?

Because LT is >> everybody on this list aside from Doom, and he was stomped by the Beyonders. Who God Doom has the powers of

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#41 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2 said:
@decaf_wizard said:

Doom solos

Why?

Because LT is >> everybody on this list aside from Doom, and he was stomped by the Beyonders. Who God Doom has the powers of

I guess. But its not like he did anything special with them, or even knew how to properly use it without Owen's help.

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#42 Edited by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two wins.

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#43 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1 should win

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#44 Posted by Tedirey (2855 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2:

You are just assuming. And no, I didn't made an argument, I stated facts.

Infinity Gauntlet is still universal whether you like it or not.

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#45 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey: What an excellent rebuttal! Bravo sir.

You are just assuming.

Uh, what am I assuming here? Everything I stated was an absolute fact with on scan evidence. Which you conveniently provided none of.

And no, I didn't made an argument, I stated facts.

True, but you did twist the facts to suit your argument that the Infinity Gauntlet is universal, without having any proof other than Current IG, right?

Infinity Gauntlet is still universal whether you like it or not.

Simply stating something is or isn't without proof is such an idiot move.

Alright, lets do a simple one:

Quasar, in an effort to kill Magus with Ultimate Nullifier fired it with 100% focus, and it did:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Jack shit. Why is this impressive?

  1. The Infinity Gauntlet was incomplete.
  2. The Ultimate Nullifer can destroy a multiverse
No Caption Provided

Another user (who's name I cant recall) killed Eternity with it. And Eternity is already multiversal.

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#46 Posted by CaM_CaSh (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: by "REALLY above multiversal" what I mean is instead of you saying Thanos w/IG is, Michael and Lucifer REALLY ARE multiversal beings. Also the 'statements' are from the scans. I am not using a computer to post them but do your research and you will see.

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#47 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@cam_cash said:

@jardinain2: by "REALLY above multiversal" what I mean is instead of you saying Thanos w/IG is, Michael and Lucifer REALLY ARE multiversal beings. Also the 'statements' are from the scans. I am not using a computer to post them but do your research and you will see.

So don't say really far above multiversal, if you only meant they were multiversal.

I've seen the scans, read Mike's run on Lucifer multiple times.

I have multiple multiversal feats, like the one posted above.

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#48 Posted by APEX_pretador (21257 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f (6669 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: School kept me to busy to be on here, but with some time management procrastination I can do CV and school.

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#50 Posted by APEX_pretador (21257 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: School kept me to busy to be on here, but with some time management procrastination I can do CV and school.

Damn, I can understand.

Hopefully you don't ruin your studies