Team Hajun vs Team Marvel/DC

Lol he does not at all solo Umineko, you think he can solo most of fiction, which is purely false. You say that Omniverse isn't a real thing yet you think Lucifer can solo most of fiction, which is literally the exact thing as an "Omniversal" feat. There are several other characters who can do the same thing Lucifer can do and more. Your wanking him and you know it. Even if I am wanking EGD and Hajun, you are wanking Lucifer way more. Also, just cause a thread is old doesn't necessarily mean it's false. There are thousands of old threads about Lucifer that claim his feats you think are relevant and you still take those into account.

There really is no justification for arguing that Umineko characters who's magic system and setting explicitly treat infinity as something that commutes to +/addition and -/reduction of scalar distance (proving they aren't really infinite just like Marvel's retcons) as anything less than being stomped by Lucifer or WF mxy.

The only real wankers here are Umineko people, who have been unironically beating their chest literally crying, bullying and shaming people into agreeing with them that their verse is ubber super outer-omegaversal for years even though nothing in their scans indicates so beyond their obfuscating interpretations, almost indistinguishable fanaticism from radical muslims.

In order to agree with this, you need to join some c*lt of circle jerkers.

But hey, if it satisfies people who think real numbers contain literal infinities instead of just infinitesimal elements occupying 0 space and equating that with infinite universes (LOL) so be it then.

Don't know anything about Reinhard and Hajun though.

Featherine solos everyone

@overvoid:

agree

@userthatisme: Well, it's always hard to draw the line between wanking something and having a good opinion of it + disagreeing with someone who says otherwise. Personally, I think someone is only "wanking" something when they start throwing all sense of logic out the window and make completely incoherent arguments for the sake of supporting a verse or character, so only the "extreme wankers" in my eyes are truly wanking, so people like MichaelJulius or GodGate. Hence, I'd like to say you are a person who happens to have a high opinion of Lucifer and DC, the same way say Mymom has a good opinion of SCP and Manifold, or Ovy has with Umineko, or I have with Lovecraft, and under the definition I introduced earlier for being a wanker, none of us are so oblivious to logic to be called that: I think.

Lol it's not wank when multiple writers have stated the Omniverse is every Multiverse in fiction. Not just Grant Morrison, but even the writers of several other verses, not even comics.

So it’s really opinion based. It’s funny because all of this debating is really opinion based. mainly due to the fact that characters have so much on them it’s hard to say what’s more powerful or weaker than the other.

What other fandoms do is irrelevant.

It is a fact that Umineko wankers are one of the most toxic steadfast cultist debaters on the internet, who get away the most with literally lying about nonsense because they intimidate people with buzzwords like "Outerverse" as if it means anything.

I still don’t like it because it’s used in ways by users like to you and YouTube commenters who then say so much nonsense and bring up headcanon. Like living tribunal simply saying “the omniverse” then people claiming the living tribunal can solo all fiction due to this word being used. It’s like the word “omnipotent“ to me, overused and blown heavily out of proportion.

Except you still need feats and statements for that character.

Featless characters can work at some times, via. scaling, however most of the time there really isn't enough evidence to prove their power level.

Lucifer still solos most of fiction excluding the omnipotent Presence.

Don’t give Monitor fans hope.

Outerverse just means your above dimensions, it's still way below Omniverse, hell, maybe even Multiverse in some cases. Lucifer has been shown to be Multiversal to Outerversal in some cases, I won't deny that, Lucifer arguably transcends all of DC Comics, but he has been shown multiple times to be nothing more than a spec within The Overvoid. The Overvoid is really just speculation at this point.

Yeah, I agree strongly with you two here. But I would like to add that for featless characters, there are some cases where being featless is the inevitable result of portraying a character in a particular way. For example, omnipotence. No single one feat can prove omnipotence because you could always come up with a better feat that makes that look pale and vice versa. Hence when it comes to so-called "omnipotent" characters we are really unable to show any collection of feats that can prove their position absolutely because there is no point where the non-omnipotent and the omnipotent meet and become one, and if that point doesn't exist it's impossible for any single one feat to prove omnipotence because it is always necessarily less than omnipotence and hence can always be superseded by a better ability and power which is in turn less than omnipotence and the process repeats.

Outerverse is a meaningless word with no logic behind it. Dimensions means you can be pin-pointed in an area of substance in relation to other points of space, such as "Where you are in something"

But Umineko characters are not Outerversal by this logic because they are all defined by a fixed position in an infinite hierarchy, going by the most logical adoption of the definition of Outerverse, they are not Outerversal at all. They are the opposite of it.

And guess what? I don't believe in Outerverse nonsense, so your goppling about that word "Outerverse" is of no concern to me.

Presence is still Omnipotent and Lucifer is still not being beaten. Also I strongly agree with you there. There are 0 feats to prove omnipitence. It’s like one God shows themselves as fire to humans and the next shows themselves as a tornado of fire then

Disagree

agree to Disagree

This legit is what use to happen a few years ago. He even showed a 6-3 year ago thing that said Featherine over Lucifer even though Lucifer has defitely got better feats. its also funny how the creator isnt even a thing that exists.

Omniverse is also meaningless.

Yes

lol at lucifer solo most fiction, I can literally name 5 characters can Blinks him

I'm sure any universal+ character already solos a good deal of fiction which doesn't even reach planetary for the most part. I also don't think it would be hard to name 5 characters that can defeat Lucifer due to how vast fiction is and how much of it can be interpreted in a way that gives one side a ridiculous edge.

@anaverageguy123: As for Umineko, idk what the hype is really about, it's not much more than a basic infinite-dimensional cosmology and even that is generous.

The hype comes from either people who don't care for comsology and focus on metaphysics, VS Battles wankers who don't know anything about cosmology and Shinza style wank the cosmology via bias word salad, and people who are a bit more knowledgeable about the cosmology due to reading beyond just Umineko. Factoring in all WTC works, Beatrice's Catbox is already similar to a Type 3 Multiverse, with uncountable infinities above it in just the Human Domain. Then there is 2 more domains above that. And according to Ovy, the Kingdom of God is above the 3rd Domain (which I just thought was the end of the 3rd Domain). Not sure on that.

OT: Reinhard and Hajun should haxstomp Marvel. They stop at Mxy and the brothers.

As for Aurora Vs. Lucifer and Michael... Back in the day I rated Michael and Lucifer to be a bit above her. Aurora is almost free of all restrictions, with only a few left keeping her from reaching full omnipotence. That and the fact that she can't reach it without being erased by the Creator. Lucifer and Michael are similar in the sense of they are the direct will and power of the Presence. I put them above her back in the day due to her head device weakness, but apparently DC has been rectonned to where the Presence isn't omnipotent. So Michael and Lucifer are not the god-tiers they used to be. Aurora is far more metaphysically deep and less restricted than them now. She stomps them sadly and the entire verse now. It's a real shame to see DC just shoot itself in the foot because of poor writing.

These arguments of "plot manipulation GG" and fan definitions like Outerverse are terrible though. Please stop.

@noaleph: Outerverse is a meaningless word with no logic behind it. Dimensions means you can be pin-pointed in an area of substance in relation to other points of space, such as "Where you are in something"

But Umineko characters are not Outerversal by this logic because they are all defined by a fixed position in an infinite hierarchy, going by the most logical adoption of the definition of Outerverse, they are not Outerversal at all. They are the opposite of it.

And guess what? I don't believe in Outerverse nonsense, so your goppling about that word "Outerverse" is of no concern to me.

^ Facts.

Prove it

I still see the arguument be made for Lucifer stomping aswell.

Except she also isn’t getting past WF Mxy or Presence.

@userthatisme: Well if you could prove that the Presence is still omnipotent, then I'll switch sides again back to my original view.

I use to see xenosaga as powerful but nobody would talk about it with me so idk

@userthatisme: Except she also isn’t getting past WF Mxy or Presence.

If the Presence isn't omnipotent and you tier things from a metaphysical perspective, she solos the verse. If you can prove that the Presence is still omnipotent though, that changes drastically. Michael and Lucifer would be above her again due to a more direct connection and representation of their omnipotent entity.

Depends on the comics at this point. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/547960019010715649/768563628986204160/image0.jpg This really just represents him as all religious Gods when they say “we make our own Gods” it’s like when people make a religion and believe in a omnipotent. Also the Presence has no true form so yeah. And Lucifer being behind him and only behind him really makes me feel Lucifer is unbeaten.

except again. It varies between comics as lucifer did beat a evil Presence inn another comic (though i call these aspects like how Toaa above all others was absorbed by Thanos with a universal item)

She really isn’t getting past the endless to me.

@userthatisme: Idk, this is all kinda wonky to me. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to back Aurora simply due to being consistent, as opposed to DC's extreme inconsistency.

Also the Presence is said many times to have all of DC as apart of him (and people like to lowball DC but the feats for those above the endless drastically show how powerful they are.

@userthatisme: "She really isn’t getting past the endless to me."

Featherine>lucifer>wf mxy>the endless

Any stance you choose. Really doesn’t matter as we both see very differently. And I prefer the comics that have good showings for characters like Lucifer or the Endless instead of bad.

@userthatisme: I know that the Presence has been shown as omnipotent, but there are too many contradictions from other stories. I don't think DC is fodder like Marvel, but it's a far cry from what it used to be. I used to rate it as top dog.

I hate marvel highball people make marvel out to be this great verse when it’s fodder. But I see what you mean DC is doing what marvel did (retconning their characters)

Lucifer>Featherine

I see Lucifer above Featherine and always will see it that way. Lucifer to me just is better.

@userthatisme: While there are Marvel wankers, I don't believe that all of them are wankers. A lot of Marvel fans really seem to not understand how any type of tiering works in multiversal debates. Their reasons for characters winning is simply because of fancy titles a lot of the time. For instance, I've seen them say LT stomps >insert multiversal character here< because he's the judge of the multiverse, and that's a big title. Likewise though, WTC has a few VS Battles drones that wank it to hell and back, and DC has its meta wankers. Every verse has their fair share of horse shit packed in, but it's just about how much shit is there. Marvel seems to have more wankers than the 2 verses here.

But I digress. Best to not derail further.

@typeiv: do you see me as wanking Lucifer though? I always saw Lucifer as only being able to lose to the Presence.

@userthatisme: I wasn't including you. Meta wankers is clearly referring to the Monitor group. I don't think you're wanking since you believe the Presence is omnipotent.

But can my argument be backed up at least?

@userthatisme: Idk, it's hard. Like you could just argue that the Presence's statements override ones from later since it's the original, but that's still kinda eh... You're fighting an uphill battle to say the least.

What does Featherine have against Lucifer