Team Agility vs Team Strength

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KO-Kid

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#1  Edited By KO-Kid
Team Agility: 
1.Spider-man (Symbiote)
2.Dardevil 
3.Nightcrawler 
4.Deadpool (Full gear)
5.Black Panther 
6.Mr.Fantastic 
 
Team Strength : 
1.Colossus 
2.Thing 
3.Luke Cage 
4.Iron-man (Extremis
5.Rhino 
6.Man-Ape 
 
Win-KO 
Bloodlust-Off
Prep time-2 hours  
Teams are in the jungle and half a mile apart. Think about how each fighter benifits their team and who can take on who. Tell who wins and how they win.
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capall

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#2  Edited By capall

team 1 wins here, u r giving prep time to reed and peter, they may have a hard time with tony but everyone else is toast pretty easily
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morpheus_

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#3  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
As Phantom said yesterday,"I hate prep time fights. You never know what could happen". I concur. Reed Richards is a walking plot device. With sufficient equipment, he could take the team out. Adding T'Challa (and his suit), and Pete makes it even more difficult. Plot devices, and secret files aside, Iron Man should win it on his own, though.
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KO-Kid

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#4  Edited By KO-Kid
@capall said:
" team 1 wins here, u r giving prep time to reed and peter, they may have a hard time with tony but everyone else is toast pretty easily "
They are in the jungle, all they can do is get a good plan.
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CAPiTA

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#5  Edited By CAPiTA

Iron Man with prep should rival Reed and Peter with prep. i see this fight between the three of them.

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capall

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#6  Edited By capall
@KO-Kid:
being in the jugle gives an advantage to team with agility even more, reed in a genius he'll scheme up some plan or plot device to figure out a way for his team to win, like i said tony has flight and variety for arsenal which would make this a big challenge
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morpheus_

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#7  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@capall said:
" @KO-Kid: being in the jugle gives an advantage to team with agility even more, reed in a genius he'll scheme up some plan or plot device to figure out a way for his team to win, like i said tony has flight and variety for arsenal which would make this a big challenge "
No. Tony also has a radar and is technopathic. He can easily sense any grenades Deadpool carries on him, and just detonate them, from half a mile away, without giving away his presence (to DD and his radar sense mostly - since he has found a way to counter Pete's spider sense). He can reach Mach 9, has spider sense and agility enough to avoid being hit by Spider-man, and  his shields have withstood nuclear explosions. There is no way the team takes him down, unless some major PIS is called upon. Tony could just use the sonic device, as he did during CW, and just shut off the minds of all people involved, immediately. Just two hours of prep, without access to any form of technology doesn't save team 2 here.
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AtPhantom

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#8  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:
" @capall said:
" @KO-Kid: being in the jugle gives an advantage to team with agility even more, reed in a genius he'll scheme up some plan or plot device to figure out a way for his team to win, like i said tony has flight and variety for arsenal which would make this a big challenge "
No. Tony also has a radar and is technopathic. He can easily sense any grenades Deadpool carries on him, and just detonate them, from half a mile away, without giving away his presence (to DD and his radar sense mostly - since he has found a way to counter Pete's spider sense). He can reach Mach 9, has spider sense and agility enough to avoid being hit by Spider-man, and  his shields have withstood nuclear explosions. There is no way the team takes him down, unless some major PIS is called upon. Tony could just use the sonic device, as he did during CW, and just shut off the minds of all people involved, immediately. Just two hours of prep, without access to any form of technology doesn't save team 2 here. "
Hawkeye took Extremis Iron man down with a Black Panther designed EMP arrow. I think we can safely assume if he gave one to Hawkeye, BP's got a ton more of them lying around.
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morpheus_

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#9  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @capall said:
" @KO-Kid: being in the jugle gives an advantage to team with agility even more, reed in a genius he'll scheme up some plan or plot device to figure out a way for his team to win, like i said tony has flight and variety for arsenal which would make this a big challenge "
No. Tony also has a radar and is technopathic. He can easily sense any grenades Deadpool carries on him, and just detonate them, from half a mile away, without giving away his presence (to DD and his radar sense mostly - since he has found a way to counter Pete's spider sense). He can reach Mach 9, has spider sense and agility enough to avoid being hit by Spider-man, and  his shields have withstood nuclear explosions. There is no way the team takes him down, unless some major PIS is called upon. Tony could just use the sonic device, as he did during CW, and just shut off the minds of all people involved, immediately. Just two hours of prep, without access to any form of technology doesn't save team 2 here. "
Hawkeye took Extremis Iron man down with a Black Panther designed EMP arrow. I think we can safely assume if he gave one to Hawkeye, BP's got a ton more of them lying around. "
Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
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capall

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#10  Edited By capall
@Morpheus_: 
tony with technopathy? wansn't aware of this, anyhow, i wasn't disagreeing with what you were saying, my point is that team 1 has the advantage with prep (whether it's pis or not), and i also did point out taking out tony would be a serious challenge as well 
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morpheus_

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#11  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@capall said:
" @Morpheus_: tony with technopathy? wansn't aware of this, anyhow, i wasn't disagreeing with what you were saying, my point is that team 1 has the advantage with prep (whether it's pis or not), and i also did point out taking out tony would be a serious challenge as well  "
Yes, he is technopathic. He detonated a nuclear reactor while fighting multiple Skrulls, and he shut down a life supporting device without even wearing the suit, from miles away. Those are just two examples. His mind is constantly connected to satellites, processing new infromation by the second. He was capable of using 72% of his mind at all times, in one point.
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AtPhantom

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#12  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him.
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Sleuth

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#13  Edited By Sleuth

Team Strength, mainly due to Tony.

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morpheus_

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#14  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "
Tony won't be standing there this time, though. And I doubt BP, good as he is, has any defence against HF attacks in his suit, just in case. But again, this is T'Challa we are talking about. Seeing that Tony had to give special counter devices to his own crew, so that they wouldn't get affected by it, during CW, though, I doubt it.
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pooty

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#15  Edited By pooty

Going with Team 1. Team 2 could win only because of Tony.

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capall

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#16  Edited By capall
@KO-Kid said:
" @capall said:
" team 1 wins here, u r giving prep time to reed and peter, they may have a hard time with tony but everyone else is toast pretty easily "
They are in the jungle, all they can do is get a good plan. "

plans don't fail, people fail to plan, lol
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Donovan Montgomery

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"Win-KO 
Bloodlust-Off
Prep time-2 hours  
Teams are in the jungle and half a mile apart. Think about how each fighter benifits their team and who can take on who. Tell who wins and how they win.    " 
 
ok, at first glance I say team 1 without much thought. 
and after thinking about it a bit....sticking with that. 
can't really go into detail without filling half the pge but I see Nightcrawler as transport, Reed and T'Challa as the planners (duh) and between them and the others, deadpool in full gear would give them something to work with against Tony. 
The rest is just prelimanary as most of the agiles have taken down muscle before with out prep. 
Won't be easy, and if the muscle prolong the battle the better chance they would have of winning.
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AtPhantom

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#18  Edited By AtPhantom

Here's the scan, bad writing or not, judge for yourself:

No Caption Provided
 


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided
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capall

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#19  Edited By capall
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "

thanks for scans, i really don't think that was bad writing, he really stood there thinkng the arrow could't hurt him, that was a showing of arrogance not pis imo
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AtPhantom

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#20  Edited By AtPhantom
@capall said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "
thanks for scans, i really don't think that was bad writing, he really stood there thinkng the arrow could't hurt him, that was a showing of arrogance not pis imo "
It's not a point of standing there like a clot, it's whether the arrow could have hurt him at all.
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morpheus_

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#21  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" Here's the scan, bad writing or not, judge for yourself:

No Caption Provided
 


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided
"
That's why I love Tony...He doesn't even attempt to dodge, or destroy the arrow in mid-air. There are three significant problems with this picture: 

i) Tony is arrogant, yes...But he isn't an idiot. He could have just dodged, without much trouble. If there is a guy who knows you can't risk taking random chances with no reason whatsoever, that's Tony.
ii) The pair speaks of "EMP arrow". Not a special arrow, or a modified one. And IM is immune to EMP.
iii) IM has been taken down with special equipment designed to specifically disable his suit before (while getting caught unaware, as well). It was supposed to disable the suit indefinitely. It didn't. Tony jump started the suit with his technopathy, after realising what happened. Since it happened before, Tony could do it again, even faster this time.
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morpheus_

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#22  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@capall said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "
thanks for scans, i really don't think that was bad writing, he really stood there thinkng the arrow could't hurt him, that was a showing of arrogance not pis imo "
You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot.
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Power NeXus

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#23  Edited By Power NeXus

I'm thinking Tony's Extremis armor would be the deciding factor here.
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crazed_h3ro

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#24  Edited By crazed_h3ro

ironman has a fair advantage on every one other then nightcrawaler and his teleportation.    
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AtPhantom

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#25  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:
" You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "
Morph, remember that IM is not confronting a great evil power, he's confronting two kids without any superpowers. I have no problem with Tony's acting in the scan.
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morpheus_

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#26  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "
Morph, remember that IM is not confronting a great evil power, he's confronting two kids without any superpowers. I have no problem with Tony's acting in the scan. "
Neither do I. But it still counts for suspension of disbelief.
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StrongestOneThereIs

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Strength would win over the agility team
They won't be able to take them all down. 
 
Or it would be a stalemate.
They can't be touched 
but they can't bring them down

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capall

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#28  Edited By capall
@Morpheus_ said:
" @capall said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "
thanks for scans, i really don't think that was bad writing, he really stood there thinkng the arrow could't hurt him, that was a showing of arrogance not pis imo "
You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "

yes, morpheus
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morpheus_

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#29  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@capall said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @capall said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Since Tony is immune to EMP (and can, and has generated EMP himself), that plot point seems quite questionable. Even if we discredit the fact that they shouldn't have been able to hit him in the first place.
"
This is why I pointed out It's Black Panther designed. As for hitting him, it's context, he just stood there imposingly believing a simple arrow couldn't possibly hurt him. "
thanks for scans, i really don't think that was bad writing, he really stood there thinkng the arrow could't hurt him, that was a showing of arrogance not pis imo "
You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "
yes, morpheus "
Excuse me if I sounded brusque. But Tony has had his armour disabled far too many times to actually react the way he did in the scan. Twice in CW, alone. Then, in his own series. Writers can't even seem to keep the continuity intact; Tony has stated several times that EMP cannot hurt him. Then, "EMP pulses, specifically created" for his armour suddenly appear...As if you can tamper with the electromagnetic spectrum, and devise strategies out of nowhere, at will...Especially since Tony has specified he can't be hurt that way.
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AtPhantom

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#30  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:

" @AtPhantom said:

" @Morpheus_ said:
" You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "
Morph, remember that IM is not confronting a great evil power, he's confronting two kids without any superpowers. I have no problem with Tony's acting in the scan. "
Neither do I. But it still counts for suspension of disbelief. "
Maybe. Personally, if I went out to confront two kids which have never before demonstrated any way of harming me, I'd do the same thing.
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morpheus_

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#31  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:

" @AtPhantom said:

" @Morpheus_ said:
" You do realize IM could have dodged the arrow just for fun, right? The suit reacts as fast as Tony can think of. Dodging an arrow, wouldn't have been a problem. As I already said, Tony is arrogant. Not an idiot. "
Morph, remember that IM is not confronting a great evil power, he's confronting two kids without any superpowers. I have no problem with Tony's acting in the scan. "
Neither do I. But it still counts for suspension of disbelief. "
Maybe. Personally, if I went out to confront two kids which have never before demonstrated any way of harming me, I'd do the same thing. "
Check what I just responded to capalli.
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Psyker star

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#32  Edited By Psyker star

team 1 should win  they start far apart and they are in the jungle so IM has a limited range of movement and all of team 1 can move fine in the jungle

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AtPhantom

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#33  Edited By AtPhantom

There still are ways to harm him through EMP. Thor did it without any fuss. Granted, this attack was far beyond the simple arrow, but it does show a point.

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#34  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
Thor demolished IM. Still, it can be argued that his power derives from mystical origin, not actually complying with laws of physics. Also, Thor had an advantage in both speed, and fire power. I do get your point, though. I just believe it improbable, if not impossible for any member of team 1 to actually make it happen here.
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AtPhantom

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#35  Edited By AtPhantom

Thor's lightning never exhibited this mystical component which People like Captain Marvel produce. Thor simply manipulate weather. His advantages in speed and strength have no meaning here since he demolished him through pure EMP.
And yes it is improbable, but I would say that both T'Chala and Reed have had extensive counters developed to IM. You never know what tomorrow brings.

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Dro

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#36  Edited By Dro

Team 2. No answer for the durability factor exists in this scenario. Heck, Iron Man could probably solo at least half the agility team from a thousand feet in the air.

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#37  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
 - Strange. I recall TOHOTMU claiming that Thor can mystically create effects (which he can). I always assumed that this fact should separate his lightning bolts from common ones, as well. But I think you are correct on this.
- Thor hammered IM while Tony was still trying to reason with him. Then IM rushed against him, and was hammered again. After this damage, Thor straightforwardly blasted IM with a thunderbolt. That's a level of power that a single arrow cannot replicate.
- Do they have the mind to do so? Yes. Do they have the resources? No. Even this duo cannot create components to work with out of thin air.
- IM has plans for everything, as well (he said so himself). It's not like he is a "happy-go-lucky" type of person. He had plans for even Dark Reign, far before anyone could imagine that something of the kind could happen. Since his team has no prep here, he could just tap into his satellites and detect team 1's every move from above. No plot to stop him here from using his power to its full potential.
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#38  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:
"  - Strange. I recall TOHOTMU claiming that Thor can mystically create effects (which he can). I always assumed that this fact should separate his lightning bolts from common ones, as well. But I think you are correct on this.
- Thor hammered IM while Tony was still trying to reason with him. Then IM rushed against him, and was hammered again. After this damage, Thor straightforwardly blasted IM with a thunderbolt. That's a level of power that a single arrow cannot replicate.
- Do they have the mind to do so? Yes. Do they have the resources? No. Even this duo cannot create components to work with out of thin air.
- IM has plans for everything, as well (he said so himself). It's not like he is a "happy-go-lucky" type of person. He had plans for even Dark Reign, far before anyone could imagine that something of the kind could happen. Since his team has no prep here, he could just tap into his satellites and detect team 1's every move from above. No plot to stop him here from using his power to its full potential.
"
And that nails it down. I concede, Two hours of prep is not enough to take IM, and without it they stand little chance. Good job Morph : )
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#39  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
"  - Strange. I recall TOHOTMU claiming that Thor can mystically create effects (which he can). I always assumed that this fact should separate his lightning bolts from common ones, as well. But I think you are correct on this.
- Thor hammered IM while Tony was still trying to reason with him. Then IM rushed against him, and was hammered again. After this damage, Thor straightforwardly blasted IM with a thunderbolt. That's a level of power that a single arrow cannot replicate.
- Do they have the mind to do so? Yes. Do they have the resources? No. Even this duo cannot create components to work with out of thin air.
- IM has plans for everything, as well (he said so himself). It's not like he is a "happy-go-lucky" type of person. He had plans for even Dark Reign, far before anyone could imagine that something of the kind could happen. Since his team has no prep here, he could just tap into his satellites and detect team 1's every move from above. No plot to stop him here from using his power to its full potential.
"
And that nails it down. I concede, Two hours of prep is not enough to take IM, and without it they stand little chance. Good job Morph : ) "
 
I learned from the best.   ; )
 
 
PS - Does this mean I can use the "I beat Vance Astro -Chuck Norris is next" promotional picture with the Spectre now? (by swapping the names, especially for this occasion, of course...)
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#40  Edited By Strafe Prower

Nice debate guys :) 
 
Team 2 ftw
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#41  Edited By AtPhantom
@Morpheus_ said:
" PS - Does this mean I can use the "I beat Vance Astro -Chuck Norris is next" promotional picture with the Spectre now? (by swapping the names, especially for this occasion, of course...) "
I quite literally LOLed. Sure, You're the king now. : )
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#42  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@AtPhantom said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" PS - Does this mean I can use the "I beat Vance Astro -Chuck Norris is next" promotional picture with the Spectre now? (by swapping the names, especially for this occasion, of course...) "
I quite literally LOLed. Sure, You're the king now. : ) "
Done.
 

No Caption Provided

 
 
LMAO.
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#43  Edited By AtPhantom

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#44  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator

 Best laugh I had in weeks...
 Best laugh I had in weeks...
 
 
That's amazing. Honestly. And I love the Wizard of Oz reference.
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#45  Edited By Psyker star
@AtPhantom said:
"
No Caption Provided
"
how do you make those
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#46  Edited By AtPhantom
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#47  Edited By Psyker star

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#48  Edited By AtPhantom

LMFAO

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#49  Edited By capall
@Morpheus_ said:
" - Strange. I recall TOHOTMU claiming that Thor can mystically create effects (which he can). I always assumed that this fact should separate his lightning bolts from common ones, as well. But I think you are correct on this.
- Thor hammered IM while Tony was still trying to reason with him. Then IM rushed against him, and was hammered again. After this damage, Thor straightforwardly blasted IM with a thunderbolt. That's a level of power that a single arrow cannot replicate.
- Do they have the mind to do so? Yes. Do they have the resources? No. Even this duo cannot create components to work with out of thin air.
- IM has plans for everything, as well (he said so himself). It's not like he is a "happy-go-lucky" type of person. He had plans for even Dark Reign, far before anyone could imagine that something of the kind could happen. Since his team has no prep here, he could just tap into his satellites and detect team 1's every move from above. No plot to stop him here from using his power to its full potential.
"

good job
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#50  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@capall said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" - Strange. I recall TOHOTMU claiming that Thor can mystically create effects (which he can). I always assumed that this fact should separate his lightning bolts from common ones, as well. But I think you are correct on this.
- Thor hammered IM while Tony was still trying to reason with him. Then IM rushed against him, and was hammered again. After this damage, Thor straightforwardly blasted IM with a thunderbolt. That's a level of power that a single arrow cannot replicate.
- Do they have the mind to do so? Yes. Do they have the resources? No. Even this duo cannot create components to work with out of thin air.
- IM has plans for everything, as well (he said so himself). It's not like he is a "happy-go-lucky" type of person. He had plans for even Dark Reign, far before anyone could imagine that something of the kind could happen. Since his team has no prep here, he could just tap into his satellites and detect team 1's every move from above. No plot to stop him here from using his power to its full potential.
"
good job "
Thank you, capalli. I enjoyed this debate.