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#1 Edited by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

The Blind Tournament: Marvel Edition

This is for those who would like to test their debating skills while at the same time possibly learning about a new character (or becoming an expert on that character). I named this the blind tournament because you have no control over the battle or the circumstances whatsoever. This is set up like a traditional tournament except everything is picked for you! I, as the moderator, will pick the Battle conditions, characters, location, etc.

The tier ranges from Street level to Transcendent tier. This means you may get a street level Battle and you just might have a cosmic level battle.

I'm going to choose characters that have enough in respect threads and debates here on Comicvine to be sure someone can actually research the character.

So this means I probably won't use a character like Mastermind or Lady Sinister (at least not by themselves) but a character like Ms. Marvel, Hercules, or Miles Morales is more than likely to be chosen. Don't expect to get an immensely popular character like Hulk or Thor mainly because they have been debated to death.

You don't have to be proficient in many characters to take part of this tournament, you just need to be able to research a little bit and have a willingness to learn. But on the flip side you might just get someone who you just so happen to already be an expert on and if that happens then it's just your lucky day.

Energy Boost

@joewell vs @yify

Joewell is representing...

Monica Rambeau (Photon/Pulsar)

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While YIFY will be representing...

Firelord

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  • Random encounter
  • In character
  • Standard Equipment
  • No BFR

Location:

Europa. An uninhabited moon of Jupiter.

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How to be a Courteous Audience:

  • We know some people are passionate about characters they like but keep comments restricted to appraisal or slight disapproval until voting begins
  • We don't care what your personal opinion is until Voting Begins, so keep it to yourself
  • Ask for a Tag
  • Give Feedback if you can
  • If something is that important that you cannot wait. Send us a private PM
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#2 Posted by Flash1812 (5717 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: Me and my partner are also ready if your making our thread

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#3 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: I didn't know this was a thing already. You might want to go back and tag everyone or post all the links in the other thread.

@hungry_sharky I'll have my first post up in a couple hours. I'm making final touches now.

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#4 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@hulkage: I didn't know this was a thing already. You might want to go back and tag everyone or post all the links in the other thread.

@hungry_sharky I'll have my first post up in a couple hours. I'm making final touches now.

I thought I did tag you in the OP?

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#5 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: You did, but I didn't get the notifications.

Edit: Nevermind. I got the notification but thought it was just you editing the other thread. Sorry for the confusion, you're all good.

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#6 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hungry_sharky Here it is!

I apologize now if any of my information is incorrect or if my sources are faulty. I've never even heard of this character before today and I don't plan on going out and buying comics with her in them just for this. 100% of my info comes from the internet, so if I'm wrong about something feel free to call me out on it.

Now, without further ado, the introduction!

Monica Rambeau

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Monica Rambeau (a.k.a Captain Marvel, Photon, Spectrum, Pulsar, and a bunch of other things. ) is a lieutenant who gained control over all the electromagnetic spectrum after being exposed to extra-dimensional energies. Marvel saying once again if you want super powers just throw yourself in radiation and everything will be great!

Stats:

And I think I'll leave it there for now.

The Battle

I'll be the first to admit, my knowledge of Firelord is not the best. But from what I could find, Monica shouldn't have a problem with him. Allow me to explain.

Firelord had his ass handed to him by Spider-Man, while Monica one shotted him casually.

Firelord<Spider-Man<Monica. I win.

Lol, ok, I was kidding. On to the real stuff.

Defense

Honestly, Firelord can't really hurt her.

The following statements are based off my limited knowledge of Firelord. Don't judge me too harshly if they are incorrect.

  1. She is made of pure energy that can phase through attacks from people like Zeus. Unless you can show me Firelord injuring an intangible being like Monica you can hurt her in the slightest.
  2. Monica can be completely invisible to the naked eye. Show me Firelord not only being able to sense, but effectively combat an invisible foe or he's screwed.
  3. If Firelord can sense Monica and has attacks that could hit her while intangible, she could just absorb them anyways. She can absorb planetary and multi-planetary attacks in pretty much every type of energy, Firelord would only power her up.
  4. She should be able to dodge anything as well. I'm assuming Firelord is FTL just out of principle, but do his attacks move anywhere near that speed? If not, Monica is dancing around them all day.
  5. Lastly, she might even be able to tank Firelord's attacks. I mean, she's no glass cannon. She tanks asteroid busting attacks and can fly through the middle of a star. Even if Firelord can get past all Monica's other defensive advantages, she wouldn't go down easily.

Offense

Monica has a ton more options here.

  1. Monica can attack with planet busting energy that can injure Skyfathers.. Show me Firelord tanking that before anything.
  2. She can create dozens of clones that can each do their own thing. So you now have multiple FTL, invisible, intangible, energy absorbing, planet busting, Monicas to deal with.
  3. Phase-splosion. She could perform something similar to what she did in the sixth scan under energy absorption and fly inside Firelord, absorb his energy, and explode him from the inside. That should do the trick.
  4. By controlling light, Monica can make illusions to trick and deceive Firelord even more then he is by the clones and invisibility.
  5. Shrinking will help to make it even harder for Firelord to hit her.
  6. Turning into electricity and blowing up his brain should work too. It worked on someone like Shuma Gorath, so you know.

And those are just some of the many ways for Monica to take this fight.

Overall Firelord will most likely be unable to hurt Monica while she has a plethora of ways to bring him down. Plus she can actually beat Spider-Man :P

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#7 Posted by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (9211 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#10 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by justicethorpsylocke (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me

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#12 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: Will we have the same characters next round?

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#14 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#15 Edited by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@hulkage: I didn't know this was a thing already. You might want to go back and tag everyone or post all the links in the other thread.

@hungry_sharky I'll have my first post up in a couple hours. I'm making final touches now.

Official starting day. Voting begins next Thursday or Friday

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#17 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: Sharky hasn't been on since the 8th. If he doesn't post anything within the next couple days can we get a reserve in here? I spent quite a lot of time on that intro and would prefer it not to go to waste lol.

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#18 Edited by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@hulkage: Sharky hasn't been on since the 8th. If he doesn't post anything within the next couple days can we get a reserve in here? I spent quite a lot of time on that intro and would prefer it not to go to waste lol.

I'm replacing Hungry_Sharky with @higorm if he is still interested.

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#19 Posted by HigorM (8915 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: @joewell: not at the moment, sorry. I'm dealing with family issues so I can't make any commitments..

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#20 Posted by uugieboogie (13080 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#21 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify

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#22 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify said:

@hulkage: Yeah?

-yify

You wanna take Sharky's place and rep Firelord?

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#24 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Edited by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

Firelord

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FIRELORDS NOVA CORPS BIO

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Powers & Abilities:

Cosmic Awareness

  1. Firelord is able to use his Cosmic Awareness to reveal a hidden planet, hidden by the Designate (a skyfather level being). Firelord also states he can sense a speck of dust in motion a million-light years away, a statement similar to those made by the Silver Surfer several times. Firelord is also able to sense that Thanosi killed every being on the planet.
  2. Firelord uses his Cosmic Awareness to locate Thanosi by scanning for the energy of the Illumination Stone. He also states that he can sense a speck of ice fall off an asteroid two million light-years away.
  3. His senses allow him to locate the ship Sanctuary II by sensing its electromagnetic energy.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Durability

  1. Withstands having his own firepower launched back at him by Thanos' starship Sanctuary II, hurling Firelord into crashing into a nearby moon.
  2. Survives a backhand from Thanos.
  3. Tanks a punch from an enraged Thor.
  4. Withstands being blasted across the solar system by an uncontrolled fully powered Primal Nova Force Richard Rider/Garthan Saal fusion.
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Energy/Flame/Cosmic Flame Manipulation/Projection

  1. Firelord and Johnny Storm absorb Supernova's (Garthan Saal) energy release and fly off into the upper atmosphere to release the energy. Johnny reached his limit and was fatigued after, but Firelord was fine from the energy intake.
  2. Firelord destroys one of the Annihilation Wave motherships.
  3. Firelord attacks Sanctuary II with the power of a small star (this is the attack he withstood that was diverted back at him and launched him into a nearby moon).
  4. Destroys a meteor the size of a small planet.
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SPEED

  1. Flies through space at FTL speeds.
  2. More FTL flying.
  3. Can maintain FTL flying speeds for days.
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STRENGTH

  1. Bats away Mjolnir with his staff.
  2. Takes out several Asgardians and battles Loki.
  3. Knocking around Ego the Living Planet's Anti-Bodies.
  4. He's capable of at least matching Thor and Hercules in strength.
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FIGHTS

Firelord vs. Silver Surfer:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

In the 7th scan it shows Firelord KO'ing Silver Surfer with eye blasts which is pretty damn impressive. when you see this:

Ego The Living Planet can easily destroy planets with his eye blasts, but he only manages to know the Surfer off his board:

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Yeah Monica flying through Stars is fine, but Firelord's flames are something else.

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Surfer is basically saying he can only survive Firelord's flames by either reflecting them or absorbing them.

And Surfer is pretty durable considering he surfs Supernova's.

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Okay my advantages:

  • Faster (Unless I see scans of Monica going FTL)
  • Stronger
  • Tougher
  • Cosmic Awareness (Stealth attacks are out of the question, he knows where you are no matter what)

@joewell I'm sorry if it's not up to scratch I was only told about an hour ago.

-yify

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#26 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage: Please tag me when this is done. Thanks

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#27 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify: Nice! But you kinda forgot to counter my post. Allow me to repost the battle portion.

The Battle

I'll be the first to admit, my knowledge of Firelord is not the best. But from what I could find, Monica shouldn't have a problem with him. Allow me to explain.

Firelord had his ass handed to him by Spider-Man, while Monica one shotted him casually.

Firelord<Spider-Man<Monica. I win.

Lol, ok, I was kidding. On to the real stuff.

Defense

Honestly, Firelord can't really hurt her.

The following statements are based off my limited knowledge of Firelord. Don't judge me too harshly if they are incorrect.

  1. She is made of pure energy that can phase through attacks from people like Zeus. Unless you can show me Firelord injuring an intangible being like Monica you can hurt her in the slightest.
  2. Monica can be completely invisible to the naked eye. Show me Firelord not only being able to sense, but effectively combat an invisible foe or he's screwed.
  3. If Firelord can sense Monica and has attacks that could hit her while intangible, she could just absorb them anyways. She can absorb planetary and multi-planetary attacks in pretty much every type of energy, Firelord would only power her up.
  4. She should be able to dodge anything as well. I'm assuming Firelord is FTL just out of principle, but do his attacks move anywhere near that speed? If not, Monica is dancing around them all day.
  5. Lastly, she might even be able to tank Firelord's attacks. I mean, she's no glass cannon. She tanks asteroid busting attacks and can fly through the middle of a star. Even if Firelord can get past all Monica's other defensive advantages, she wouldn't go down easily.

Offense

Monica has a ton more options here.

  1. Monica can attack with planet busting energy that can injure Skyfathers.. Show me Firelord tanking that before anything.
  2. She can create dozens of clones that can each do their own thing. So you now have multiple FTL, invisible, intangible, energy absorbing, planet busting, Monicas to deal with.
  3. Phase-splosion. She could perform something similar to what she did in the sixth scan under energy absorption and fly inside Firelord, absorb his energy, and explode him from the inside. That should do the trick.
  4. By controlling light, Monica can make illusions to trick and deceive Firelord even more then he is by the clones and invisibility.
  5. Shrinking will help to make it even harder for Firelord to hit her.
  6. Turning into electricity and blowing up his brain should work too. It worked on someone like Shuma Gorath, so you know.

And those are just some of the many ways for Monica to take this fight.

Overall Firelord will most likely be unable to hurt Monica while she has a plethora of ways to bring him down. Plus she can actually beat Spider-Man :P

Counters

While I'm at it I might as well counter what you did say about the battle.

Okay my advantages:

  • Faster (Unless I see scans of Monica going FTL)
  • Stronger
  • Tougher
  • Cosmic Awareness (Stealth attacks are out of the question, he knows where you are no matter what)
  • Nope. They are roughly equal in speed. But Monica's attacks are actually light speed, while Firelord's are much slower and more dodgeable.
  • Intangibility makes strength a non-factor.
  • Not tough enough. Monica has planet busting attacks, which you have yet to show you can survive. Along with exploding him from the inside.
  • Nice. That should counter invisibility. But you still have the fact you can't hit her, you can't hurt her if you do, there's thousands of her, and you can't survive or dodge attacks from all of them.
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#29 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@yify: Nice! But you kinda forgot to counter my post. Allow me to repost the battle portion.

  1. Turning into electricity and blowing up his brain should work too. It worked on someone like Shuma Gorath, so you know.

Whoa....now hang on..I would just like to throw some knowledge your way. Before you start throwing around the name Shuma Gorath.

When Shuma-Gorath is summoned, only the merest fraction of its essence gains a foothold into the realm it is summoned to at first, as it takes time for Shuma-Gorath's full essence to traverse across realms from its home dimension. This means that Shuma-Gorath is summoned at the tiniest bit of its true power, explaining how lesser beings are able to put up a fight against Shuma-Gorath on Earth

Counters

While I'm at it I might as well counter what you did say about the battle.

Okay my advantages:

  • Faster (Unless I see scans of Monica going FTL)
  • Stronger
  • Tougher
  • Cosmic Awareness (Stealth attacks are out of the question, he knows where you are no matter what)
  • Nope. They are roughly equal in speed. But Monica's attacks are actually light speed, while Firelord's are much slower and more dodgeable.
  • Intangibility makes strength a non-factor.

Firelord's eye blasts are MFTL (Much Faster Than Light).

No Caption Provided

  • Not tough enough. Monica has planet busting attacks, which you have yet to show you can survive. Along with exploding him from the inside.

So far I've seen two heralds of Galactus reform after being vaporised (Silver Surfer & Stardust) so assuming that Firelord can isn't that big of a stretch.

Do you remember this scan I showed you before?

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That was caused by this:

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He tanked the "ALL THE FIERY POWER OF A SMALL STAR!"

I'm pretty sure Stars > Planets.

  • Nice. That should counter invisibility. But you still have the fact you can't hit her, you can't hurt her if you do, there's thousands of her, and you can't survive or dodge attacks from all of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Monica have to stop being intangible to hit Firelord.

@joewell You're up pal.

-yify

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#30 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify: Oooh. You're quick!

Rebuttals

Whoa....now hang on..I would just like to throw some knowledge your way. Before you start throwing around the name Shuma Gorath.

I'm aware he wasn't at full power. I never said he was. It's still a viable method of attack however, one Firelord has no counter to.

Firelord's eye blasts are MFTL (Much Faster Than Light).

No... It literally says in that scan it's only light speed. Meaning Monica can dodge them all day. Or just phase through/absorb them.

So far I've seen two heralds of Galactus reform after being vaporised (Silver Surfer & Stardust) so assuming that Firelord can isn't that big of a stretch.

Do you remember this scan I showed you before?

That's not how it works. Show Firelord having that ability or don't try to use it.

Even if he could, it would count as a KO and Monica would take the battle.

He tanked the "ALL THE FIERY POWER OF A SMALL STAR!"

I'm pretty sure Stars > Planets.

A small star. Considering the beam only make a human sized crater in the planet, it must have been a reaally small star.

Even if she can't kill him with fire power alone, she has other methods I've already explained.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Monica have to stop being intangible to hit Firelord.

Nope.

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"You can't do anything to me now! But I can do plenty to you!"

You're still unable to hurt her.

Recap

  • Firelord can't hit her because she's intangible.
  • Firelord can't hurt her because she can absorb his energy.
  • Firelord will have trouble tagging her and her thousands of clones.
  • Firelord can't deal with her attacks forever and will eventually go down.
  • Firelord can't reform until you show him doing it.
  • Monica still has a bunch of ways to put him down such as going inside of him and exploding or simply overwhelming him.

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#31 Edited by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell:

A small star. Considering the beam only make a human sized crater in the planet, it must have been a reaally small star.

Dude, look at what it says in the scans:

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"INSTANTLY THE SECTION UNDER FIRELORD'S BARRAGE ERUPTS LIKE A GREAT SOLAR FLARE, SLAMMING INTO HIM WITH SUCH FORCE THAT HE'S SENT FLYING AWAY FROM THE BATTLEZONE AND TOWARDS A NEARBY MOON".

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You haven't answered my question.

doesn't Monica have to stop being intangible to hit Firelord.

This scan just shows her melting a couple of guns (not really useful against a guy called FIRELORD)

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The eye blast originated on Earth and reached "UNTIL AT LAST, AT THE VERY EDGE OF KNOW SPACE--IT REACHES ITS DESTINATION"

This all occurred on the same page. this is solid proof that Firelord's eye blasts are MFTL.

(How am I doing?, I never even heard of Firelord until about 7 hours ago)

-yify

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#32 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify:

Dude, look at what it says in the scans:

I can read. The fact that it did so little to the terrain proves that it's not as powerful as Monica however.

You haven't answered my question.

doesn't Monica have to stop being intangible to hit Firelord.

This scan just shows her melting a couple of guns (not really useful against a guy called FIRELORD)

That directly answers your question. She is intangible during that scan and also attacking.

No Caption Provided

The eye blast originated on Earth and reached "UNTIL AT LAST, AT THE VERY EDGE OF KNOW SPACE--IT REACHES ITS DESTINATION"

This all occurred on the same page. this is solid proof that Firelord's eye blasts are MFTL.

(How am I doing?, I never even heard of Firelord until about 7 hours ago)

  1. We have no solid time frame for that. It could have taken seconds or minutes, it isn't specified.
  2. It directly states it's only moving as fast as a light beam.
  3. Monica has also traveled billions of millions in even less time, so it's a moot point anyways.
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You aren't doing bad. It's just that your character would lose this match handedly. You are failing to counter some of my points though (Such as my recap in the last post and a majority of my opening. ) which may make you lose some points to the voters.

If it makes you feel any better I've never heard of my character either.

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#33 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hulkage Hey pal I have nothing else I can add. So I'm ready for votes. Sorry I couldn't really do much, oh well hopefully I get a character I'm at least knowledgeable on next time eh?

-yify

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#34 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify said:

@Hulkage Hey pal I have nothing else I can add. So I'm ready for votes. Sorry I couldn't really do much, oh well hopefully I get a character I'm at least knowledgeable on next time eh?

-yify

You have another week before voting begins officially. Challenge yourself. I'm sure you can come up with something in a week.

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#36 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulkage said:
@yify said:

@Hulkage Hey pal I have nothing else I can add. So I'm ready for votes. Sorry I couldn't really do much, oh well hopefully I get a character I'm at least knowledgeable on next time eh?

-yify

You have another week before voting begins officially. Challenge yourself. I'm sure you can come up with something in a week.

When I mean I have nothing else to add, I mean I've run out of scans. I'm using a character with very little appearances/feats.

-yify

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#37 Posted by Hulkage (5322 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify: You have used around 20-25 scans. I'm pretty sure than in over three decades he has more than 25 scans. He was Galactus main herald at one point.

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#38 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

damn that was quick.

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#39 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

damn that was quick.

Yeah, sorry for the let down.

-yify

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#41 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify: I'm honestly just happy we got someone in here.

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#42 Edited by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@yify: I'm honestly just happy we got someone in here.

Yeah but I feel like if I was given another Herald, say Stardust or even Surfer I could have been much better.

-yify

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#43 Edited by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: @yify:

i've read it through.. and as i see it.... i HAVE to vote for jowell... simply because of the single fact.... firelord can't hurt or harm monica..... so no matter how much he attacks... he would never take her down if he can't hurt her...... on the other hand, i have acknowledged firelord's durability... but, no matter how durable a person is, he can't tank planetary attacks forever.... eventually he will fall down....

the debate itself was good actually.. nice point to point debate... but just the fact that yify couldn't convince that monica could be hurt, resulted this vote.... but a nice debate from yify too.

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#44 Posted by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify said:
@joewell said:

@yify: I'm honestly just happy we got someone in here.

Yeah but I feel like if I was given another Herald, say Stardust or even Surfer I could have been much better.

-yify

surfer would actually stomp monica.. wouldn't have been a good pair.

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#45 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8798 posts) - - Show Bio

Intangile woman wins.

He cant hurt her, she cant hurt, but she has a chance of hurting him while he has no chance of hurting her.

Also, seems like Yify copypasta'd the respect thread :P

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#46 Posted by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio

Intangile woman wins.

He cant hurt her, she cant hurt, but she has a chance of hurting him while he has no chance of hurting her.

Also, seems like Yify copypasta'd the respect thread :P

ohh wait... i think the voting haven't officially started yet....

(yify actually debated with good points.... doesn't matter if the scans comes from respect thread or not .. :D)

@hulkage said:
@yify said:

@Hulkage Hey pal I have nothing else I can add. So I'm ready for votes. Sorry I couldn't really do much, oh well hopefully I get a character I'm at least knowledgeable on next time eh?

-yify

You have another week before voting begins officially. Challenge yourself. I'm sure you can come up with something in a week.

so.. voting haven't started yet?

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#47 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9211 posts) - - Show Bio

@yify: you did good, but your character just wasn't the right one for this match.

@joewell: You get my vote.

You made it clear that Firelord wasn't going to do much to Monica despite being powerful in his own right. Plus you showed ways she can win, and they weren't countered really.

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#48 Posted by YIFY (1599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by justicethorpsylocke (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

Vote goes to @joewell for showing that Monica can't be harmed by Firelord. however good job to @yify. Honestly if he hadn't said that he learned about Firelord a day ago, I would have thought that he was very knowledgable on the character.