You still don't have Proof that Tatsumaki can beat Golden Sperm
The only proof people are based on is on what ONE vaguely said during such an interview, in order to not upset Tatzumaki's fanbase.
ONE
ONE is not like Keisuke Itagaki from Baki who truly emancipate an aura of a truly Alpha Chad male author who has the guts to pummel the fanbase to dust, the Beta reader starts whining and he just lefthandly raises them up and punches them more.
Don't take me wrong, ONE is an amazing author, but he is reluctant and more protective.
This is Keisuke:
PS:
You know, "the Beta Otaku reader that once bought a Tatzumaki pillow, have to be somehow protected", that's how ONE might thought at such moment when he delivered such a vague sentence, but GoldenSperm massacred Tatzumaki with 0 efforts, injured or not, she was still able to hold her ground, but this is GoldenSperm, she couldn't do absolutely anything, she was dramatically overwhelmed.
ONE might felt compassion for the Beta fanbase.
She was cold-heartedly cast away and not worthy to push Garou to its final form, it was GoldenSperm who did that.
Black Sperm and Rover earned the honor to become Saitama's pets, Tatzumaki will never ever earn that position.
Yeah, now we know Orochi +Psykos are enough to rival her and cause her some big damage. I think if we add Golden Sperm here, it turns into a stomp in Monster's favour.
If just 3 cadre can stomp her, putting her against entire Association is absolute overkill. Tatsumaki dies.
The thing is that without hostage, shouldn't Tatsumaki one shot Psykos right after like after Genos gives her time to rescue the S heroes? Wasn't that the only reason she didn't do it from the very beginning? In a random fight where she doesn't have to worry about hostages, I don't see why she couldn't just crush Psykos from the beginning since she can multi task to the point of attacking Psykos with flying storm of mountain size rock while creating a fake version of herself then during that time sneak up and jump inside Psykos. Tats could just straight up crush and squish her from the very beginning without worrying about collateral damage to the S class heroes. As the only two times where Psykos were able to get a hit on Tats was because she was distracted and holding back like pulling out the heroes or worrying about the hostage kid.
Okay, but you forget she is against a massive number of characters who can use super speed. She can multi task, sure, but whenever she is occupied with something, she can't put her full power behind another objective. Let's say these 3 cadre attack her at once - Orochi, Golden Sperm and Psykos. Orochi and Golden Sperm are primarely CQC fighters with high physical stats and amazing speed. So they are gonna rush Tatsumaki and pound on her barrier a thousand times a second. She can hardly focus on instantly deleting Psykos if she is occupied by such powerful opponents at the same time. I don't think it's that simple.
1 vs 1 Tatsumaki could defeat all 3 of them. But when she has to face them at the same time, her power and focus is scattered and it won't be that easy. Golden Sperm has very impressive resistance to Tatsumaki's telekinesis. Orochi should be able to resist it even better. Psykos, though completely inferior, can assist these two with her own psychokinesis, or fuse with Orochi for complete overkill. Tatsumaki can't one shot them all. She will be hard focused on defense from the start, and eventually she will go down.
@abstractraze: Your arguments are ignoring the fact that every feat she has performed in the manga was Tatsumaki holding back. You have to scale all of her feats up because she's healthy, not concentrated on something else, and not worried about accidentally killing other heroes. There's nothing people like Homeless Emperor can do if she lifts the entire city or something. Her only threats are Psykorochi and Golden Sperm because she can instantly kill or BFR the rest of the association.
@abstractraze: Your arguments are ignoring the fact that every feat she has performed in the manga was Tatsumaki holding back. You have to scale all of her feats up because she's healthy, not concentrated on something else, and not worried about accidentally killing other heroes. There's nothing people like Homeless Emperor can do if she lifts the entire city or something. Her only threats are Psykorochi and Golden Sperm because she can instantly kill or BFR the rest of the association.
Of course not, Emperor can't do much alone, he gets erased, but I mean, if Psykos who has lesser firepower could severely damage Tatzumaki, Homeless Emperor and Natural Evil Water that together have far deadlier firepower, they could perfectly kill her.
For the simple fact that Tatzumaki can't equally cast defensive and offensive capabilities, once she encounters GoldenSperm and launches any offense, she 's is gonna be vulnerable in her defense and once it's the case, she is dead, Rover not only is incredibly durable but he has great projection capabilities and together with H.Emperor, Natural Evil Water and Orochi, she is dead and if she switches to a defensive stance which I think it won't happen because of how goofy Tatzumaki is, GoldenSperm is gonna as well attack and in terms of scale, there is no way she can stand such a thing.
I mean, according to the last panels, when Tatzumaki was inside PsykosOrochi, she highlighted how fragile she indeed was, the only way PsykosOrochi could defend herself, was through her psychic abilities than rather endurance, furthermore, Genos could deflect one of her blasts.
I still don't think she can severely harm Rover while Rover is in a top form, he is too tanky, she would need a considerable amount of power to shut him down, but if she does, her defenses are gonna be once more again low and she is anyways dead, alone against GoldenSperm she needs to go all out.
The Monster Asociation has more than enough openings to catch Tatzumaki in a vulnerable stance.
Nothings have been retconned, Tatsumaki has not shown to be capable to use both offense and defense at the same time or at least on the same level,
She does just that when fighting Orochi, when she's ripping out Gyoro Gyoro's insides, and when Psykorochi first fires her energy blast that was given to her by God.
when she created such a clone in order to keep her hide,
And at that point, she was STILL holding back and multi-tasking to keep the heroes safe.
she was creating a giant shield another defensive capability, both were purely defensive abilities.
Her powers had significantly weakened at that time.
Unless we are not there, to me it seems clear that the Monster Asociation beats that sissy effortlessly.
lol 98% of the association is complete fodder for her, total non-factors. Those who aren't are either easily dealt with or can make her somewhat exert herself. Put that all together and I can see her losing but definitely not on low-diff.
The only proof people are based on is on what ONE vaguely said during such an interview, in order to not upset Tatzumaki's fanbase.
It wasn't vague at all, you just have your fingers in your ears.
She was cold-hearted cast away not worthy to push Garou to its final form, it was GoldenSperm who did that.
She was cast away so that the executives didn't immediately get killed! Jesus Christ there's already people fanboying over Golden Sperm who hasn't even been in the manga yet and whose only feats are failing to kill a severely injured Tatsumaki, withstanding her attempt to snap his neck, and getting killed by Garou.
Black Sperm and Rover earned the honor to become Saitama's pets, Tatzumaki will never ever earn that position.
lol Genos is Saitama's disciple. I guess that means he's stronger than all 3 of them are.
@abstractraze: Psykos won't get the chance. Murata said it himself: Psykos sneak-attacking Tatsumaki is too-far fetched, so they're changing what happens in the manga. If you include manga feats, Tatsumaki can simply throw Psykos and Homeless Emperor into space before they can even use their abilities. This possibility is out of the question.
The most likely scenario is Tatsumaki insta-killing Psykos, Homeless Emperor, etc. while BFRing Evil Natural Water and throwing Overgrown Rover across the city. Then it's just her vs Orochi and Golden S. She's already greater than them both individually, so them two together would be tough, but she can fly outside of Golden S's range and focus on Orochi, kill him, and then target Golden S. Or she just prevents Black S from ever reaching Golden S anyway.
You still don't have Proof that Tatsumaki can beat Golden Sperm
I do but you try to work around it by saying she doesn't have the feats even though Golden Sperm also doesn't have the feats to beat a full-power Tatsumaki.
@abstractraze: Psykos won't get the chance. Murata said it himself: Psykos sneak-attacking Tatsumaki is too-far fetched, so they're changing what happens in the manga. If you include manga feats, Tatsumaki can simply throw Psykos and Homeless Emperor into space before they can even use their abilities. This possibility is out of the question.
The most likely scenario is Tatsumaki insta-killing Psykos, Homeless Emperor, etc. while BFRing Evil Natural Water and throwing Overgrown Rover across the city. Then it's just her vs Orochi and Golden S. She's already greater than them both individually, so them two together would be tough, but she can fly outside of Golden S's range and focus on Orochi, kill him, and then target Golden S. Or she just prevents Black S from ever reaching Golden S anyway.
Well, let us see if that happens, however, I can agree that Psykos sneaking from behind is a bit lame, but others that are way faster, they could perfectly achieve that.
That's not how things work, we are teaming up the Monster Asociation and making them work together as efficiently as possible we are not operating according to the plot, we operate in the most efficient scenario as possible while considering the behavioral standards.
If the Monster Asociation operates coordinated, the other members are not gonna expose themselves so slightly, Evil Natural Water could perfectly sneak far better and H.Emperor might not but he can fly and therefore flank in coordination with Natural Evil Water, then we have Rover who could partially play a tanky role while flanking too, I think Rover is fast enough to blitz Tatzumaki, but that's it.
If we assume that Tatzumaki is very concentrated, I still don't think she could hold on, because anyone whether H.Emporor, Rover or Natural Evil Water, it's only one of them needed to kill her 100% if she is low on her defenses.
I don't think that she could 100% beat GoldenSperm by her own, what ONE said in such an interview is vague and wacky, I don't trust it, I just only saw how GoldenSperm obliterated her horribly while she could still hold her ground such as was the case against Multi-Cell Sperm, but GoldenSperm destroyed her horrifically, she was a total 0, from doing at least something still impressive, she utterly became worthless and exactly such sudden change, tells more than enough.
Black Sperm will begin as GoldenSperm of course, we are talking about an efficient scenario as possible, this means, he did not lose any cell during the fights against Atomic Samurai or against Tatzumaki before becoming GoldenSperm.
@abstractraze: Yeah Golden Sperm is clearly stronger
than Tatsumaki but peoples ignore feats
There is another thing I have been thinking about, it's not that she was weakened, her powers were unstable, this means that the fluctuations varied, she was depowered in the sense that she couldn't keep a certain constancy when talking about her power's fluctuations, which means that at times she was at her full power and sometimes it lowered, it's not that she became weaker in a lower constancy.
The potency behind her powers are going up and down uncontrollably but at times their are at its prime level.
In short, it's not that GoldenSperm did not deal against Tatzumaki's prime level, because he did at times and despite being the case, he made her bite the floor.
Well, let us see if that happens, however, I can agree that Psykos sneaking from behind is a bit lame, but others that are way faster, they could perfectly achieve that.
That's not how things work, we are teaming up the Monster Asociation and making them work together as efficiently as possible we are not operating according to the plot, we operate in the most efficient scenario as possible while considering the behavioral standards.
If the Monster Asociation operates coordinated, the other members are not gonna expose themselves so slightly, Evil Natural Water could perfectly sneak far better and H.Emperor might not but he can fly and therefore flank in coordination with Natural Evil Water, then we have Rover who could partially play a tanky role while flanking too, I think Rover is fast enough to blitz Tatzumaki, but that's it.
If we assume that Tatzumaki is very concentrated, I still don't think she could hold on, because anyone whether H.Emporor, Rover or Natural Evil Water, it's only one of them needed to kill her 100% if she is low on her defenses.
I don't think that she could 100% beat GoldenSperm by her own, what ONE said in such an interview is vague and wacky, I don't trust it, I just only saw how GoldenSperm obliterated her horribly while she could still hold her ground such as was the case against Multi-Cell Sperm, but GoldenSperm destroyed her horrifically, she was a total 0, from doing at least something still impressive, she utterly became worthless and exactly such sudden change, tells more than enough.
Black Sperm will begin as GoldenSperm of course, we are talking about an efficient scenario as possible, this means, he did not lose any cell during the fights against Atomic Samurai or against Tatzumaki before becoming GoldenSperm.
I don't see who's fast enough to sneak up on her like that, she's already significantly faster than Sonic.
The monsters not exposing themselves doesn't really matter if Tatsumaki performs a colossal AoE attack that wipes out 98% of the association instantly and then just uses her Psychic Sense that can extend over 1500 meters to find the survivors.
Flanking and tanking doesn't really matter either. Nothing is stopping Tatsumaki from insta-killing Homeless Emperor and insta-BFRing Evil Natural Water and Overgrown Rover.
Rover is absolutely not blitzing Tatsumaki, she's fast enough to casually dodge Evil Natural Water's jets and is significantly faster than Sonic.
Homeless Emperor, Evil Natural Water, and Overgrown Rover won't get the chance to damage Tatsumaki because she can insta-defeat them, as I said. Even if they did, we've already seen her switch from offensive to defensive instantly in the manga (particularly against Orochi), so the crux of your argument—that Tatsumaki will be open to attack while on the offensive—is moot when taking into account manga feats.
This is straight-up ignoring authorial intent. ONE himself said Tatsumaki can beat Golden S. The only reason he beat her was because he had a circumstantial speed advantage while she was weakened. At full power, she's easily fast enough to dodge the attack. That's why she was able to beat Multi-Cell Sperm but lose to Golden Sperm.
Sure, but he still has to transform from Black Sperm to Golden Sperm. By the time this transformation is complete, all the cadres you keep bringing up would already be dead.
There is another thing I have been thinking about, it's not that she was weakened, her powers were unstable, this means that the fluctuations varied, she was depowered in the sense that she couldn't keep a certain constancy when talking about her power's fluctuations, which means that at times she was at her full power and sometimes it lowered, it's not that she became weaker in a lower constancy.
The potency behind her powers are going up and down uncontrollably but at times their are at its prime level.
This "theory" can be debunked in one scan:
Tatsumaki's powers have already significantly decreased in the manga and the cadres haven't even shown up yet, let alone Golden Sperm.
@necromancer76: Fair enough, but why would it matter to sense the others while the bigger threat is in front of her, those being said, GoldenSperm, because he will be there at the very beginning, while she is taking her time to go after the others in the background, GoldenSperm already blitzed her and killed her, she has to focus the ones closer to her first.
Once she focuses GoldenSperm and possibly Orochi that has the most threatening power projection capability, the others are gonna flank her from different directions, she might could insta make 1 or 2 of the 3 disappear except Rover, but what's about Ugly Furer who is fast as hell too? In the Webcomic he punched her horribly and he was only toying with her than rather serious.
That's why I think that if her defenses are lowered, it's over and what she did with her shield against Psykos when she was trying to get away, it are attributes of her shield's functionally, but it remains as a defensive capability.
Given the feats in the Webcomic and the way how ONE expressed himself during the interview, it's still wacky...
@gangorca: Tbh I assumed that the OP wasn't including Psykorochi. That's probably too much for her to go against two relatively equal opponents. She could still scrape a win if she is bloodlusted from the start and exerts all of her power to quickly dispatch Sperm and Psykos.
@necromancer76: Fair enough, but why would it matter to sense the others while the bigger threat is in front of her, those being said, GoldenSperm, because he will be there at the very beginning, while she is taking her time to go after the others in the background, GoldenSperm already blitzed her and killed her, she has to focus the ones closer to her first.
Once she focuses GoldenSperm and possibly Orochi that has the most threatening power projection capability, the others are gonna flank her from different directions, she might could insta make 1 or 2 of the 3 disappear except Rover, but what's about Ugly Furer who is fast as hell too? In the Webcomic he punched her horribly and he was only toying with her than rather serious.
That's why I think that if her defenses are lowered, it's over and what she did with her shield against Psykos when she was trying to get away, it are attributes of her shield's functionally, but it remains as a defensive capability.
Given the feats in the Webcomic and the way how ONE expressed himself during the interview, it's still wacky...
Then she multi-tasks. There is canonical evidence that she can multi-task with ease in the manga. So in this case, she focuses Golden Sperm while also insta-killing/BFRing the rest of the Association AKA she dodges Golden Sperm with her speed which is significantly faster than Sonic while annihilating everyone else simultaneously (because she can).
Fuher Ugly punched her because Psykos sneak-attacked her. This isn't happening to a full power Tatsumaki because she's just gonna throw him into space or crush him into sludge instantly before he does anything.
Except she doesn't need defenses, I've said this already. Nothing—NOTHING—is stopping her from instantly killing/BFRing Fuher Ugly, Homeless Emperor, Evil Natural Water, Overgrown Rover, etc. while simultaneously focusing Orochi and Golden Sperm because she can multi-task effectively, as evidenced by her fight against Psykorochi while simultaneously holding all the heroes in barriers and while holding back. Until you counter this point, there's nothing further to discuss.
Wacky or not, it's authorial intent that's backed up by feats and scaling. So you can't just choose to ignore it to support your own argument.
@gangorca: Lol Golden Sperm one shots Tatsumaki are you blind or something?
Enough of your bait, Golden Sperm had two good feats then got killed off. How anyone can find that to be wanking material is beyond me. Have a nice day.
It was hypothetically implied that she might could've won, nothing is truly certain.
We have to wait for the upcoming manga chapters for more specified detail, ONE himself during the interview did not deliver a decisive outcome, he expressed himself very vaguely.
If GoldenSperm is enough to put a front and keep her busy, what's about glass canon monsters such as Homeless Emperor, what's about Orochi or Rover who has incredible durability, what's about Gouketsu and Elder Centipede.
Tatzumaki dies horribly.
There’s no possibilities or maybes, it’s outright stated.
Golden Sperm clearly one shots Tatsumaki. Are you blind
too? And Monster Garou is very op lol ,why you compared
anyone with Monster Garou?!
Tatsumaki is still conscious..... that’s how she tries to snap GS’ neck.
Gallery
And it’s because Monster Garou is “op” that he’s noteworthy. Before he even became a monster Garou bodied GS, and yet Tatsumaki restrained Garou. Her power is so great that even while weakened he couldn’t move.
@necromancer76: Fair enough, but why would it matter to sense the others while the bigger threat is in front of her, those being said, GoldenSperm, because he will be there at the very beginning, while she is taking her time to go after the others in the background, GoldenSperm already blitzed her and killed her, she has to focus the ones closer to her first.
Once she focuses GoldenSperm and possibly Orochi that has the most threatening power projection capability, the others are gonna flank her from different directions, she might could insta make 1 or 2 of the 3 disappear except Rover, but what's about Ugly Furer who is fast as hell too? In the Webcomic he punched her horribly and he was only toying with her than rather serious.
That's why I think that if her defenses are lowered, it's over and what she did with her shield against Psykos when she was trying to get away, it are attributes of her shield's functionally, but it remains as a defensive capability.
Given the feats in the Webcomic and the way how ONE expressed himself during the interview, it's still wacky...
Then she multi-tasks. There is canonical evidence that she can multi-task with ease in the manga. So in this case, she focuses Golden Sperm while also insta-killing/BFRing the rest of the Association AKA she dodges Golden Sperm with her speed which is significantly faster than Sonic while annihilating everyone else simultaneously (because she can).
Fuher Ugly punched her because Psykos sneak-attacked her. This isn't happening to a full power Tatsumaki because she's just gonna throw him into space or crush him into sludge instantly before he does anything.
Except she doesn't need defenses, I've said this already. Nothing—NOTHING—is stopping her from instantly killing/BFRing Fuher Ugly, Homeless Emperor, Evil Natural Water, Overgrown Rover, etc. while simultaneously focusing Orochi and Golden Sperm because she can multi-task effectively, as evidenced by her fight against Psykorochi while simultaneously holding all the heroes in barriers and while holding back. Until you counter this point, there's nothing further to discuss.
Wacky or not, it's authorial intent that's backed up by feats and scaling. So you can't just choose to ignore it to support your own argument.
We have to get this first point clear before continuing with the others.
Yes, she can multi-task but depends on what she's focusing, especially when it comes to a very intense offense, her defenses become fragile, that's her glass-canon for now, we have to get the reaffirmation from the Manga.
And the last point, just NOPE, ONE didn't clarify it, he just used an unclear Japanese slang, and that's why it's suggested that a not injured Tatsumaki might could have won and exactly such translation renders it as something not clear or 100% certain, ONE did not call anything out on twitter since such publishment.
As I said before, the feats + Tatzumaki from doing something still impressive to an absolute 0, she got bitch slapped and tamed by GoldenSperm, exactly such sudden change from back to white, tells more than enough.
@abstractraze: You have yet to address the most likely scenario that I have brought up several times, so I will make it as clear as I possibly can. What factors are preventing this from happening:
Using her speed that is faster than Sonic's, Tatsumaki flies into the air, making her untargettable by the vast majority of the Monster Association, including Golden Sperm (who has to merge at the start of the fight).
While dodging Orochi's blasts, Tatsumaki throws literally everyone but Orochi and Golden S across the continent because she can already twist up the whole city while weakened and concentrated on something else (Tatsumaki canonically was able to dodge Orochi's blasts while holding several people in the air simultaneously). Having her defenses lowered at this point is inconsequential because she's simply dodging—no one can harm her in her current situation.
Tatsumaki eliminates Orochi while Golden S tries to find a way to attack her because she's way up in the air.
Tatsumaki eliminates Golden S because ONE himself said she could and has not stated at any other point that she couldn't or that he was joking when he made the statement, therefore there's nothing to clarify and so his statement must be taken as truth without trying to say that he meant something else to serve your own argument.
@abstractraze: You have yet to address the most likely scenario that I have brought up several times, so I will make it as clear as I possibly can. What factors are preventing this from happening:
Using her speed that is faster than Sonic's, Tatsumaki flies into the air, making her untargettable by the vast majority of the Monster Association, including Golden Sperm (who has to merge at the start of the fight).
While dodging Orochi's blasts, Tatsumaki throws literally everyone but Orochi and Golden S across the continent because she can already twist up the whole city while weakened and concentrated on something else (Tatsumaki canonically was able to dodge Orochi's blasts while holding several people in the air simultaneously). Having her defenses lowered at this point is inconsequential because she's simply dodging—no one can harm her in her current situation.
Tatsumaki eliminates Orochi while Golden S tries to find a way to attack her because she's way up in the air.
Tatsumaki eliminates Golden S because ONE himself said she could and has not stated at any other point that she couldn't or that he was joking when he made the statement, therefore there's nothing to clarify and so his statement must be taken as truth without trying to say that he meant something else to serve your own argument.
Now that I think about I'm not truly interested because with the time I'm more than enough convinced that GoldenSperm could solo her if Black Sperm would be a full cell-stock...
I will bring up new views...
We have to consider the death of Multi-Cell Sperm, there were tons of cells, around over the 1 trillion, while the GoldenSperm requires at least 10 trillion and all the previous lost cells in the fight against Atomic Samurai and against Tatsumaki and other heroes.
So one could say that Black Sperm was weakened to a certain degree too before achieving his GoldenSperm transformation.
Could Tatzumaki have won against GoldenSperm if not injured?
Could GoldenSperm have won if he wouldn't have lost any cell-stock?
The interviewer had a clear virgin hunch on Tatzumaki.
- Furthermore, the interview was not clear, ONE used Japanese slangs and at the end of the day the standardized perception of ONE's interview on the matter, is that Tatzumaki "might could have won", than rather "she would win".
From doing something at least impressive, injured or not, to an absolute 0, bitch slapped.
@necromancer76: We both moved from the first issue, that was Tatzumaki's weak point in terms of defense and offense, which seems we reached some common view, at least that's how I'm seeing it.
I apologize, I was ready to keep going with the fighting scenario, but now that I realized that Black Sperm lost a lot of cell-stock such as was the case with Multi-Cell Sperm + in previous fights + the fact that Tatzumaki's powers became unstable than rather pushed down to a constant lower degree output, now I'm convinced that GoldenSperm could be in the possibilities to win this by his own and if we add other monsters, it's a stomp.
Don't take me wrong, I was excited, but this took a radical twist...
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