Tatsumaki vs Boros

@akz:

Really grasping at straws here. The intent was to show Saitama being shock due to the fact that he was in space alone, and that he had to hold his breathe too. Nothing about that implies he didn’t realise he was in space ‘til he fully reached the Moon.

I mean, when Saitama said "outer space?!", clearly meant that he was surprised that he was in space, he wouldn't be surprised if he could perceive his surroundings, this is backed up by Saitama saying "this is almost a real fight", he wouldn't have called it almost a real life if he could perceive his surroundings.

If Boros’ kick was MFTL or something, then it would’ve created FAR more damage than it actually did.

Nope, it wouldn't. Saitama and Garou got launched from the recoil of serious punch ^2, which was trillions of times ftl and they landed on I.O yet did zero damage to the moon.

Even ignoring this abhorrent logic, Saitama got orders of magnitudes faster as the manga progressed, as we learnt from the Jupiter Moon fight & the graphs and all that.

He only got magnitudes stronger was during his fight with Garou, he obviously still grew before his fight but we don't know how fast he grew and how much he grew.

It’s painfully clear that CSRC is supposed to be his strongest attack as he’s expending all his energy outwards in a beam/blast. It’s far more powerful than his best strikes in MB form.

When did I deny CSRC being his strongest attack?

Wait what MFTL feats did Saitama have at this point again? Enlighten me.

Saitama and CF Garous I.O feat is MFTL.

Mind listing out all the "insults" I said?

@akz:

Yeah, he surprised he was in space… within itself. Nothing more or less.

Which is exactly my point?

It narratively makes more sense for dialogue to be held once said character is on a surface, not being flung across a large distance.

Saitama said "this is almost a real fight", I mean he wouldn't have said that if he could perceive his surroundings, like narratively it would make sense that Saitama would call someone who can send him flying so fast that even he can't perceive his surroundings "almost a real fight".

You quote that Saitama line, but are seemingly ignoring when Boros questioned Saitama if he was even trying or not.

Saitama not trying doesn't debunk anything lol. He was obviously holding back a lot but he still called Boros "almost a real fight".

Nevertheless, Boros doesn’t scale anywhere near to Saitama after that chapter/fight, if he ever did within the fight they had. Who knows, maybe he did, at some point?

Boros scales to Saitama but hes still fodder to him, you can scale to characters but still be fodder to them.

Saitama probably would have just gotten 50x more powerful than him within a second. It doesn’t matter though, since the shockwave of Saitama’s punch is what put Boros down for good.

Actually, Boros used all of his energy, so to be fair, when the shockwaves reached Boros, Boros was nerfed lol.

Like, Boros a good distance away from Saitama, dies to the air blast of his punch.

He died from the air blast because he was nerfed, he used up all of his energy + he also got hit by CSRC. By the way he did not die instantly, he was still alive for about a minute? That's still impressive.

This either confirms Saitama’s exponential growth 📈 within fights, supporting your first narrative that he was at least somewhat of a challenge to Saitama, but your second argument falters in its behalf.

I don't understand. But Boros wasn't a challenge to Saitama, he was almost a challenge.

That’s how basic Ek works, so it would.

Ek? Do you mean Kinetic Energy? Anyways it's fiction, KE doesn't apply to everything.

If Murata completely ignored it as a factor, he wouldn’t have made any damage at all then. When they landed on Io, they created a massive cavity within one side of the planet.

They barely did any damage to I.O lol.

Yeah, Garou fight made the growth clearly exponential.

Agreed.

We do have an indicator besides that, whenSaitama one-shots a bot, fully programming his powers from the previous day, casually.

Is this source canon? Was it confirmed by Murata if it's canon? If it is then I concede on my argument on Boros scaling to base CF Garou but he still destroys Tatsumaki, though I would need evidence that the source is canon if you don't mind.

Btws by "fully programming his powers from the precious day", do you mean that the bot was equal to Saitama the day before? I'm not gonna lie but that seems impossible, but if thats how Murata wants it then i'm not gonna complain.

I‘m confused then, what exactly are you arguing for the Moon kick? Sending a 70kg body of mass up at say 100c (baseline for MFTL) yields 3.1456431255789E+22 Joules of Ek, this is around Country level, I guess? Saying he launched him at 1000 times the speed of light is Large Country level.

The AP for moon kick is far higher than that, Psykos beam is multi cont+ and we obviously know that it can't send Saitama so fast that he can't perceive his surroundings.

And where are you putting his CSRC in AP? Continental - Multi-Continental?

Star level, but if the source that you provided is canon then it's is only planet level (scales above Gaia Canon).

I meant ‘at this point’, as in up to the point where he was fighting Boros.

I mean Saitama still scales to it unless that source is canon, then I concede. But Boros still stomps Tats.

“Do you know how to read? Like do you? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't.” - Pretty self-explanatory. Having an active debate with said user, yet questions if he could read, in a sarcastic manner.

“Btws found your daily routine, am I right or am I right?” - Pretty self-explanatory, again.

If you have a problem with other users possibly insulting, show me which posts and I’ll check it out; giving the warnings accordingly.

I'm not sure how calling someone a troll counts as an insult but alr. If all these count as an insult, then shouldn't calling someone a "stonewall" also count as one? Because calling someone a stonewall can mean that they can't think properly, or are just plain stupid.

If you count that as an insult then post 331 and 332, Paxa and Heiqn called me a stonewall.

@akz:

“Almost a real fight” implies the person fighting him is still inferior in every way, but what you’re saying here is that Boros’ kicks are powerful enough that Saitama can’t perceive them in any way, implying a superiority on Boros’ end

Yup, Saitama wasn't fazed by Serious Punch ^2 but still sent him flying so fast that he couldn't perceive his surroundings unless you're trying to argue that hes trillions of times ftl. Boros sending him flying so fast that he couldn't perceive his surroundings does not make him superior to Saitama.

Now, let’s say this fully made sense, Boros’ kicked Saitama fast enough that it’s FTE for him, what does that get? Highballing it to hell is only getting Country-Large Country level.

The D.C of the attack will probably be country-large country level but the AP is much higher.

It does, unless your stance now is that Boros is almost a real fight for a massively holding back Saitama. If so, that’s not even worth mentioning at all.

It doesn't matter how much Saitama was holding back, he still called Boros "almost" a real fight, yes he is almost a real fight for a casual Saitama, how is that not worth mentioning? Not even Tatsumaki is almost a real fight for casual Saitama.

Scaling to a character means you’d actually have to be relative to them.

You really wouldn't.

Boros is only ‘scaling’ in the sense that he was actually Saitama’s toughest fight at that point,

Yea, hes far weaker then Saitama but he still scales off of him.

but only half a challenge not a holding back Saitama, not full power Saitama.

Challenging casual Saitama is still impressive, not even CF Garou could challenge full power Saitama lol.

Expending all your energy for AP doesn’t lower durability.

Why not? Even IRL the less energy you have the weaker you become lol. CSRC is almost a suicide attack, because with zero energy, Boros wouldn't be able to do much.

Prove that using all his energy into a beam decreases the general toughness of his flesh, tissue, bone, organs, etc.

Boros is an alien so his body parts can be very much different then ours, we don't even know if he has tissues or bones lol, as for organs, why are you bringing them up? We don't know the durability of his organs nor do we know how many he has.

As for flesh, he is an alien so his flesh can very much be different then ours, but anyways Boros states that he uses his energy as a Booster, if his energy makes him stronger then doesn't that mean that with zero energy he will basically become much weaker?

Dying to a shockwave of someone that you’re apparently ‘scaling’ to, whilst your most powerful attack concurrently got displaced entirely is pretty embarrassing.

How so? That was the shock wave of Saitama's serious punch, not embarrassing at all considering that he was still alive for a minute after using up all of his energy.

But then what’s the point of this weird scaling then? If you’re not even a full challenge to the guy you’re fighting, how are you bypassing his perception speed wo easily.

The AP of his attack is bypassing his perception speed lol. Just like how the recoil of serious punch ^2 sent Saitama and Garou flying at trillions of times ftl..

Keep this in mind; the source of the kick, i.e Boros’ leg, would move AT LEAST as fast as Saitama was moving when he got launched, since that’s what created the initial collision.

No it wouldn't have, all it had to do was be strong enough to send him flying that fast, we know that Saitama and Garou are nowhere near trillions of times ftl but the recoil of there serious punch ^2 sent them flying that fast.

Are you saying Boros, who’s not even a full challenge to Saitama, can throw punches/kicks somehow too fast for Saitama to see? That’s not AT ALL what their whole fight was showing lol.

Yes that is what I'm saying.

Yeah let’s just cherry-pick when to use and not use Ek to quantify stuff when it suits us most.

I mean, KE does not apply to everything, FF can move at FTL speed with a human weight yet he does not destroy everything around him.

Oh it’s canon alright. Here. It’s a canon audiobook, which can be purchased on the official site. They also got the same VA’s for the anime to record this. The audiobook’s also came with the CD’s releases of S1/2. You can check back to my original post in this thread, I said Boros wins. Considering Saitama seemingly has no fixed power level, it seems possible and is.

Was the audiobook published by Murata/One?

Also, was it confirmed that the audiobook is canon to the manga? Because as far as we know, WC, Manga, Databook and Anime Saitamas are all on different levels, they aren't the same, the same can go for audiobooks unless it's confirmed that they are canon to the manga itself. They can be canon, but canon in their own way just like the WC. For all we know, the databook can be canon to the anime, manga or webcomic or it can be canon in it's own way.

Umm what? What has Psykos’ beam got anything to do with this?

Just saying that Psykos beam wouldn't be powerful enough to send Saitama flying so fast that he couldn't perceive himself, she couldn't even do it to tornado.

Do you still go off of that shady handbook statement? Lmao.

Do you mean the databook? No, databook and manga Boros are different characters. You can scale manga Boros to star level but at the same time you can also scale him to surface or planet level while databook Boros is solidly planet level in his armor form.

No, it doesn’t scale above the Gaia cannon, since the Gaia cannon was never planet level,

There are calcs putting the feat at small planet level, some placed it at moon+.

and Saitama no-diff squirted away the Gaia cannon in a MUCH later chapter. Proof of Saitama’s extreme power growth debunks any scaling from earlier to later chapters.

I mean, Saitama only grew fast during his fight with Garou in the manga, we don't know how fast he was growing before unless the databook is canon (to the manga).

Even if you don’t see it as an insult, there’s still the other two.

I accept the warning for the other 2 insults, but I just don't see how calling someone a troll counts as an insult. That's all.

@akz:

You would suggesting he would be, somewhat. Aforesaid, his kick is the source of the kinetic impact, so his leg, in that moment, would be moving AT LEAST as fast as Saitama being launched. So you’re basically saying he can kick faster than Saitama can see in attacks.

To be fair, Saitama allowed him to get hit, Boros obviously can't kick faster than Saitama as he already got statued. But if an attack is strong enough then the recoil of it can send Saitama faster than he can see.

Based on what??

Based on him sending Saitama faster then he can see, that's minimum moon+-planet level scaling above Gaia Canon.

He’s hundreds of thousands of times less powerful than him but still scales, I guess. Lol.

Yeah, he survived a normal punch and surprised him with his speed.

Casual Saitama AT THAT POINT in the story.

I mean we don't know how much or how fast Saitama grew till his fight with Garou and that was because of a rage amp, Saitama was still growing but we don't know how much. The audiobook is indeed canon but is it canon to the WC or Manga?

CF Garou challenging serious Saitama AT THAT later point in the story is SEVERAL orders of magnitudes better. What are you even saying?

Obviously it's far better because he copied Saitamas strength lol but all Saitama still needed was one arm.

Why would it? Burden of proof is laid upon you to prove that, somehow, all the components of Boros’ body get physically weaker in all types of strengths (yield/shearing/tensile, etc). With zero energy he’d be physically weak, yes, not less durable though. This is headcanon. You have to prove his anatomy is OH so different to humanoids. He has already compared his MB to anaerobic respiration/exercise. The way his body is drawn clearly shows he has connecting muscles/tissues + bones. A basic understanding on biology call help us ascertain this fact.

I mean can humans instantly use their energy as a boost to become stronger like Boros did in meteoric burst? Can they regenerate like Boros did? Can they spam energy blasts like Boros did? Do they have an eyeball in the middle like Boros? No, do you see how his body is so much different than a human body? There's no evidence that he has the same body parts because we know that humans can't do what his species did, Boros stated that his species have the best regeneration in the universe, meaning it's a normal thing for them, only superhumans like Zombieman has regeneration and even his is not on there level.

But if you still wanna argue that Boros has the same body parts as a human then that would still mean that all of his energy disappearing would make him less durable because our cells need energy to live, without our cells we are basically dying, slowly dying makes you less durable.

Yes, it would be more durable is all. Yeah, he’ll become weaker, not less durable though. His muscles don’t just randomly turn to mince meat after using the blast.

Muscles need cells to function, cells can't function without energy. I might be wrong on the "muscles need cells" but not on the "cells can't function without energy".

It very much IS embarrassing. Minute or not, he still died and got fodderised; His whole body turned black.

From Saitamas serious punch lol, how is it embarrassing if the majority of the verse would be vaporized by it? Sure it's embarrassing compared to people like Saitama, God and SMCF Garou but the rest of the verse? No.

The difference between that and SP^2 is that SP^2 was done between both Saitama at full power & Garou (who was copying his powers accordingly). The name SP^2 is dumb, it should be more like SP x 2, but it means that Saitama was flung from the recoil of a blast him and Garou made collectively at (then) full power. Makes perfect sense as to why THAT would be FTE for him.

SP x 2 is indeed double the strength of Saitama but the recoil sent them flying FAR faster then just double their speed lol, Saitama alone is hundreds of times FTL, the recoil sent him flying trillions of times FTL.

Actually, now that I think about it, you can argue that Saitama is indeed trillions of times FTL by scaling him off of the recoils speed, he should be 50% of the speed just like you said, so I can concede all my arguments for Boros but that would just be good for Saitama and Garou since they can be scaled to trillions of times FTL now lol. I'll think about weather I should concede or not because if I do then that's still a W because huge speed feat for Saitama and Garou, thanks for pointing it out.

It’s basic physics. If a car was moving at x speed and hit a person, who went flying at y speed, every single time does x speed have to be faster than y speed. Pretty simple.

I don't think that a car can send a person flying fast that they wouldn't be able to perceive their surroundings lol. But to answer the question, car always move faster than humans so yes.

Umm what? Your previous paragraph point was literally disagreeing with that notion, saying ‘no it wouldn’t have’.

What? I was arguing that Boros can send Saitama flying fast so that he couldn't perceive his surroundings so I dunno what you're talking about.

False equivalence. Speedsters in every media can control intertia, as to prevent cataclysmic disasters, but at other times can effectively use speed for AP. This topic is on ACTUAL strikes.

Yea and that's because the K.E does not apply to everything lol, if it did then every speedster would destroy everything around them. Some characters can swing there blades at FTL speed but still do not destroy anything.

Can you prove that? Saitama actually resisted the Psykos beam (squirt gun)

When did Saitama fight Psykos?

but he just let Boros hit him around there. Best believe that if Saitama actually braced or resisted Boros’ kick in any way, he’d have not moved an inch lol. If you argue otherwise, you’d be saying Boros can overpower Saitama with that kick.

I mean, Boros can't overpower Saitama but he was still going toe to toe with Saitama in his released form, they were clashing bodies with each other. Also Saitama did brace/resist Boros's attacks right after Saitama came back from the moon.

Why don’t you prove that, if Saitama just let the Gaia cannon hit him, it wouldn’t have ragdolled him at extreme speeds

Because it doesn't have feats of doing so, Orochi was so fodder to Saitama that Saitama didn't even need a punch to overpower his strongest attack.

Even without the audiobook (which is still canon)

Depends if it's canon to the manga, webcomic or canon in it's own way.

do we know this. And… again, your premise here still roots off of the belief that Boros sent Saitama flying FTE for him, which still isn’t right.

Well Saitama was surprised about his surroundings so if he did not go FTE then idk.

Earth-busting level takes 1800 times more energy than it does Lunar Moon busting level. IIRC, small planet level usually comes somewhere in between the two values (could be more to either side, I forgot), i.e orders of magnitudes below normal planet-busting levels, which is what you stated the Gaia cannon was at, previously.

Gaia Canon is still multi cont+-moon level which is not bad.

Yes and yes. All you had to do was read up on it.

So I actually have to read the audiobook? Do I just click that link you sent me to read it?

Also, you do know the anime just goes off of the exact print of the manga, right? That’s why the anime was taking so long to make; the hard copy of more recent manga chapters hadn’t been printed off yet.

CSRC in the anime has planetary DC, in the manga it has surface level DC. Anime, Manga, Webcomic and Databooks have different power levels, Audiobooks can be the same.

Yes, the Garou fight was at the highest rate he ever grew.

Because of his rage amp.

Still doesn’t dispute the notion of massive growth over-time for him. I mean, there’s a whole reason Boros couldn’t sense a limit to his energy

Saitama doesn't have a limit because he can get as strong as he wants lol, there's no limit to how strong he becomes even if somebody one shots him then he would just become stronger than them.

and why he went from human level to whatever level he was at most of S1.

Gag probably or he got his powers from God maybe.

So why exactly do you scale Boros to that star level nonsense, when his most powerful attack is surface-wiping, at best?

Surface level DC and star level AP, I have him at star level scaling to base CF Garou and Blast. But I might change my mind on that if you remember what I said above about me thinking whether I should concede or not.

It’s moreso the picture linked as well.

Alright.

Still Boros. Tatsumaki ain't surviving CSRC and has no answer for his Regeneration so that's the end of that debate

@akz:

It’s inherently impossible for the recoil of an attack to be faster than the attack itself. Especially so in the nature of a kick. You’re either saying he can kick FTE to Saitama or not. Choose one.

So if a car that's traveling 60 MPH/27 Meters per second bumps into a normal human, would the human be sent flying at 27 MPS?

“Surprised him” because he was the fastest Saitama had seen yet. Ultimately means nothing if he can be statued. Normal punch is unquantifiably below serious punch (base) so, again, no scaling can be done.

Even Flashy Flash who is FTL couldn't surprise Saitama lol, surprising Saitama is at least decent scaling for Boros.

I’ve already made it clear how I know that he especially grew at an exponential rate due to the Garou fight and Genos. We do, he grew enough times in (at least) 24 hours to be able to one-shot himself from the previous day CASUALLY.

That's from the audiobook, which is canon to the webcomic I'm pretty sure given they are made by ONE.

https://onepunchman.fandom.com/wiki/Audiobooks

If the fandom is correct on the audiobooks being written by ONE who writes the webcomic then that makes audibook canon to the WC and not manga. (I'm not sure if it says Murata, I just typed in CTRL + F and typed in there names, all I found was ONE, no Murata).

And? It was a FULL POWER punch with the collective explosion of his power + Saitama’s. I don’t get what you’re saying specifically here,

He is technically still not using his full power though, because hes only using one arm. His full power would be when he uses both arms.

are you implying CF Garou isn’t several hundreds of thousands to millions of times more powerful than Boros?

Base CF Garou? No, but SMCF Garou is without a doubt billions of times above Boros. He basically kills Boros in an instant since he won't hold back like Saitama.

Nope, but those are differences that were made plentifully clear to readers/viewers, not your whole notion of Boros somehow not having muscles and tissue or something. You still haven’t proven that in any way.

Boros is an alien, a completely different race, his species functions a lot differently then humans so do I really need to prove that he has most of the bodyparts that humans need to function if hes never shown them?

None of that still changes anything. You have to reinforce your claim that Boros’ general anatomy is so different to human’s, other than the painfully obvious variations. From other pieces of fiction, species like Viltrumites or Kryptonians are nigh-humans with slight biological differences; those differences are pretty major, mind you, but for the most part they match human anatomy. Just because they have some variations, it does not now mean that every single feature is different. Prove that Boros has all these differences, per your claim.

My proof is that his species functions differently then humans, the average human doesn't have insane regeneration, Boros confirmed that his species has the best regeneration in the universe, humans can't do that lol, they clearly have different body parts then us unless you believe that they can instantly regenerate with just brain, heart, lungs, cells, kidneys etc.

What? Expending your energy does not soften your tissue, muscles, bone, etc. People use their energy everyday on any activity, it doesn’t mean their bones turn brittle and that their meat goes tender. Boros’ blast also comes from the core in his centre.

Actually tissues are a group of cells that have similar structures, cells need energy otherwise they would die. No energy = no cells = no tissues. As for muscles, they don't really matter, GS has more muscles then PS yet hes less durable for obvious reasons, as for bones, the durability of Boros's bones are featless so I could care less about them, if he even has bones.

I think you’re getting confused. “Energy” in the tradiational sense is one people see with “Joules”. Boros’ blast would come under this too. Energy for your body and cells is not the same as this; the biological energy is called ATP [Adenosine triphosphate]. Completely different things.

:/ I'm pretty sure that when Boros meant "ALL" of his energy, he meant like "ALL" of it, not just the "Joules" but all of his energy that he functions his body with. I guess we can agree-disagree on this topic because there is no evidence about what he meant when he said that he will blast away all of his energy.

AGAIN, inertia. In the case of an actual kinetic attack, Ek is VERY obviously applied, hence why Saitama was launched so fast and to such a great distance. Your args are conflicting conditions.

Murata did not apply Ek when CF Garou and Saitama got launched to I.O at MFTL speed.

Literally has no correlation to what I was saying but ok. He was going toe-to-toe with a massively holding back, not trying Saitama. My point was that if he braced for the Moon kick (obviously he’d have to have leverage too) he wouldn’t have been moved. He would concurrently being matching the striking power of Boros’ kick & moving downwards faster to oppose his vertical velocity/impact.

I agree with this, he wouldn't have budged if he braced himself, but he didn't and got launched faster then he cant perceive.

HUH????? So the same cannon that you’re arguing is Moon to Small Planet level can’t ragdoll a 60-80kg mass (human male)??

Yea, Saitamas too strong to be budged, Sea King couldn't budge him, obviously Sea King is fodder to Orochi but he can easily ragdoll far above 80kg but couldn't budge Saitama. Even Tatsumaki couldn't budge him in the audiobook. (It's not canon to manga but just using an example).

We can go in circles all year long with this point.

Meh sure.

He was surprised he was in space within itself, nothing else.

The thing is that he wouldn't be surprised if he could perceive his surroundings. The fact that he called Boros "almost" a real fight backs it up.

You’d have to go on with the belief that Boros can kick FTE to Saitama, so is therefore superior in a certain element, but we both know that isn’t true.

Yea it isn't true because we already saw Saitama statue Boros in canon.

Yeah, all the info is on that official site I linked.

Alr, I'll check it tomorrow, was busy with work all day + making this post.

Yet you think it isn‘t good enough to send a human male mass moving at extremely high speeds.

It can easily, it's just not strong enough to budge Saitama.

Mass isn't everything.

No it doesn’t. The line in the anime is just a slight variation to the manga due to translations and how words have multiple translations or structures for interpretation. Boros in manga said blowing the planet away with Saitama, which has the same innuendo as surface-wiping; both get to killing all life on the planet. There are multiple statements for ‘planet-busting’, similar to the anime Boros’. They are considered hyperbole, mainly to describe just that said concept is a threat to the planet. We shall give all equal grace. I think it’s pretty disingenuous to make a WHOLE distinction between Manga and Anime, solely due to one line. We already know that the anime is a direct print from manga pages.

Fair, but manga Boros can be scaled higher given that anime has barely touched into the MA arc.

So we’ve found common ground? Good. Boros can’t scale above the Gaia cannon then, since any comparison with Saitama that could be true doesn’t apply as Saitama is always getting stronger. Besides the point, your comparison for the two makes no sense.

That's not what I meant, my point is that Saitama has no limit to his strength, he can become as strong as he wants to if he wanted to, he doesn't automatically become stronger.

Boros scales to people who can nigh-statue, hold off, and fight near equally with a Saitama a hundred chapters later, yet he’s not even a full challenge to an earlier Saitama? Yeah, I think you should concede sooner, rather than later.

Well to be fair, I'm only gonna be conceding on my argument of Boros sending Saitama at MFTL speed, if I do then that's just better for Saitama (trillion x FTL feat), I wouldn't be conceding on my other arguments though, I might after I read the link you posted but we will see.