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#1 Edited by Kiadi-Monday (298 posts) - - Show Bio

SW Elite Darksider Bracket - Who Wins?

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Rules:

  • All characters in unamped Primes unless otherwise stated
  • Legends takes priority
  • In-character
  • 25m apart

Location: Stonehenge

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Who wins it all?

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#3 Edited by o0Deadman0o (464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by Kiadi-Monday (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayne: Maul and Malgus are pitted against each other, by the way. They can't both reach the next round.

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#5 Edited by slayne (521 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiadi-monday: Ah, misread it then.

Vader would likely emerge victorious.

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#11 Edited by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader, Zannah, Maul, Dooku. Then Vader and Dooku. And then probably Tyranus.

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#15 Posted by SaiyatonianSage (295 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Would Zannah emerge victorious in regards to her sorcery or because Arcann doesn't have that many feats in accordance?

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#16 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyatoniansage: Sorcery. Arcann seems to have significant demons and to my knowledge doesn't have the mental fortitude or understanding of Sorcery to counter Zannah.

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#17 Posted by SaiyatonianSage (295 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: That makes sense, Arcann does have a lot of daddy issues that Zannah could exploit. Thanks!

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#18 Posted by Slayedigneel (1920 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayedigneel: Hmm, fair. Arcann by then might be able to triumph. I tend to think of the angry Arcann with daddy issues, though. ;)

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#21 Posted by juiceboks (24794 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Slayedigneel (1920 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Yeah, If you went the Darkside route, or it was Kotfe Arcann, Zannah would have field day.

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#23 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Sorry, meant to put Tyranus as the more probable victor. He's more skilled by a considerable margin at this point, which is the greatest difference between the two.

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#24 Posted by juiceboks (24794 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Ah, that makes more sense. How do you think they compare as Force Users?

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#25 Edited by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Vader's more powerful at this point. Though not to a game-changing extent. However, one could argue that the Count's advantages are restricted to skill and agility. Vader has the edge in everything else: strength, durability, power, etc. and that could easily be argued to be sufficient to grant him the victory.

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#26 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11816 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader

Arcann

Malgus stomps

Dooku Stomps

Vader

Dooku

Vader wins

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#27 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6165 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku might win this.

If only because Wyyrlock might be able to TP a win with Vader.

If he can't though Vader likely wins.

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#28 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16483 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1:

Vader vs Wyyrlok - I'd favour Vader due to him being at least equivalently powerful in the Force and a considerably superior swordsman.

Zannah vs Arcann - Arcann's an emotional mess with daddy issues and he lacks the willpower feats of Darth Bane, hence I feel Zannah's spells should be rather effective. I also doubt he'd break her defense in time to stop that.

Maul vs Malgus - You can make a legitimate case either way.

Dooku vs Executor Sedriss - Sidious seems to imply that his apprentices are more worthy/powerful than someone like Sedriss, but even disregarding that commentary, Dooku's feats and accolades are better on the whole. Should be a nice fight.

Round 2:

Vader vs Zannah - Vader's better in every relevant field; he's a better telekinetic, more versatile, better duelist, physically superior and I imagine he has the neccessary mental fortitude and willpower to resist most of what Zannah can throw at him.

Dooku vs Maul(or Malgus) - Whoever Dooku faces here, he should pull out ahead; he's a more controlled, refined and skilled duelist than either, a more versatile Force user than either and considerably more powerful than either.

Round 3:

Vader vs Dooku - Vader as of ANH is an inferior lightsaber duelist to Dooku, but a notable strength advantage should make Dooku work for the victory. On the other hand, Vader should logically be a more powerful Force user, hence I'd give it to him.

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#29 Edited by juiceboks (24794 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova said:@juiceboks: Vader's more powerful at this point. Though not to a game-changing extent.

Agreed. I don't see the gap between the two being much if at all significant in that regard. Though I don't believe he's refined enough to use his strength advantage to earn him more wins as he could with later incarnations.

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#30 Edited by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader vs Wyyrlok - Believe it or not I'll go for Wyyrlok here. His standing next to Krayt (not being stomped) means he can at least contend with Vader, raw power-wise, and would be a good match against him in sabers. TP is his trump card, though. He'll win with that.

Arcann vs Zannah - Zannah is way better than people give her credit for and her spells are something Arcann can't deal with.

Maul vs Malgus - Malgus wins, due to having very powerful Force Lightning, which is Maul's major weakness. He's also a comparable duelist and telekinetic.

Dooku vs Sedriss - Sedriss is officially stated to be possibly Palpatine's strongest disciple after Vader, so that'd include Dooku. Then again Palpatine himself said Sedriss is not Sith apprentice-material, although that could refer to many other things than power. Anyway, I'd favor him. Even if he isn't more powerful than Dooku, he should still be in the same league, and also a better swordsman, per his contention with DE Luke.

Wyyrlok vs Zannah - Wyyrlok wins. He's simply better in every relevant way: TK, Lightning, TP etc.

Sedriss vs Malgus - Malgus cannot stand against Dooku-tier Force users or duelists, in my opinion, so it's a pretty clear win for Sedriss.

Wyyrlok vs Sedriss - They're comparable Force users but Sedriss is a better duelist. This doesn't prevent Wyyrlok from winning, though, as he can still use TP while pressed. He wins.

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#31 Edited by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1:

ANH Vader vs Darth Wyyrlok III

Vader wins this solidly. While Wyyrlok is a master of Sith sorcery, and very good with the Force, he is seriously outmatched in the dueling and physical department. Vader has beaten four Jedi only one year after ROTS, beaten Sha Koon, beaten Celeste Morne, defeated Kai Huddora and Beyhgor Sahdett, easily beaten Kento Marek, nearly overwhelmed Prime Galen Marek, made Starkiller admit he was outmatched whilst not trying to kill the clone, defeated An'ya Kuro, and edged out Old Ben Kenobi in their confrontation. In dueling, Wyyrlok only held off Krayt for a short period of time, and Vader is at least as skilled as Krayt in ANH. Wyyrlok has Force Lightning, but Vader can deflect it; Vader should outmatch Wyyrlok in pure TK, such as when he nearly Choked Ferus Olin, crushed TIE fighters, scattered entire armies with Force waves, while Wyyrlok has hurled rocks, lifted and thrown corpses, and been stated as a master. What might factor in against Vader is sorcery; the deaths of Shmi and Padmé might affect Vader if Wyyrlok attempts Sorcery, but Sorcery is labor-intensive, and Vader will not give Wyyrlok the space he needs to pull out such a trick.

Arcann vs Darth Zannah

Arcann wins this. He has more potential, being a child of Emperor Valkorion himself, and he has shown more powers that are practical in a confrontation such as this; he disintegrated an assassin droid with Lightning, outright dominated The Outlander with TK, which put him above Zannah in TK/high-intensity combat Force power. Zannah is quite meh physically speaking, and Arcann should win there. Dueling-wise, this should not be very conclusive for either of the sides because Arcann has shown to be on the losing end of duels against the Outlander, while Zannah was nearly killed by a Jedi Knight, and when fighting the strike team she had to play on one Knight's straightforward technique and force him against the other Jedi and outmanuever them. While his strikes won't get past her defense, she has no way to counter. And his Force Powers are superior. She does have Sorcery; that could factor in. But I'm not seeing it. He can pummel her with TK, and she will be too focused defending his assault to use Sorcery. Then he'll bring hell upon her; she could get a few rounds, maybe 2 or 3, with her wild card, but not a majority.

Darth Maul vs Darth Malgus

Now, I know this might generate debate, but I honestly see Maul as the victor. Why? Because although Malgus in his prime has the serious power advantage, Maul has dueling. Maul, for dueling, has easily beat Anoon Bondara, easily beat Darsha Assant, easily defeated Qui-Gon Jinn (superior to Bondara) while Jinn had his apprentice, near-Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi, for backup. Now, this is TPM Maul. TCW Maul has been stated to improve. And this is true. He easily fended off the assaults of an angry TCW Kenobi and used his physicals+Teras Kasi to force his nemesis to retreat, fight TCW Kenobi to an inconclusive standstill yet again on Florrum, beat Ko Solok while he had Force combat master Bruu Jun-Fan for backup, stomped Savage Opress who has beaten Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress, easily beat Pre Vizsla while negating use of the Force (Vizsla brought his whole arsenal on Maul, and without his full arsenal, Vizsla has gotten the upper hand against late TCW Ahsoka and held his own briefly against Kenobi.) Maul then stalemated Grievous in SoD, winning due to TK. Malgus has also beaten his fair share of opponents, but they weren't as impressive as the ones Maul beat. As an apprentice, Malgus nearly killed Satele, but she was a young student herself; he beat Kao Cen Darach, who in turn made short work of Vindican, but Vindican himself was quite average. Kao Cen Darach is a battlemaster, but certainly behind Maul. He beat Satele on the sabers portion of their fight on Alderaan, which Satele survived due to the Force. In Decieved, when he sacked the Temple, he beat Ven Zallow convincingly; Zallow had been blizting "elite" Sith warriors, but those are Inquistior level at best. Then he fought Aryn Leneer, but he had to resort to his powers and even got wounded by the Jedi Knight. Physically speaking, Maul has ripped the skulls of 4-meter tall creatures, kicked metal inward, broken durasteel, physically humiliated Kenobi, beat Savage due to his physicals, so Malgus is behind, plus his respirator is a gaping weakness; while Malgus has survived being literally buried alive by Satele, Maul survived being cut in half. Malgus certainly gets some rounds by unleashing hell on Maul with the Force, Maul is just more skilled and stronger; he wins a slight majority, maybe 6/10.

Count Dooku vs Executor Sedriss

Not much to be said, here. Sedriss was outright stated by Palpatine not to be Sith-apprentice material, which means Sedriss is automatically behind Vader, Maul and Dooku. Dooku was one of the best swordsmen of his era, getting the upper hand against TCW Anakin+Kenobi, effortlessly fending off Ventress whilst pushing Savage back with Lightning, contending albeit briefly with Yoda, having outsparred Mace Windu, easily outsparring Grievous most of the time etc. Sedriss being the commander of a Dark Jedi group that are no better than low-level Knights is hardly impressive; in battle, Sedriss managed to land somewhat of a Force Choke on Kam Solusar, but he was never lifted and only brought one hand to his throat; he immediately got stomped by DE Luke in Force power. Dooku has lifted and ragdolled Obi-Wan Kenobi, choked Savage Opress, dominated Asajj Ventress who are all considerably above Kam Solusar. Dooku wins this, 10/10.

Round 2:

ANH Vader vs Arcann

Vader wins. While Arcann's Force Lightning could be vital, it has to land a hit on Vader, and Vader has his saber to effortlesly negate that. Vader's TK should be more powerful than Arcann's (Crushing TIE fighters, nearly killing Ferus Olin with a choke, choking Kento Marek, scattering armies with Force waves) and he is definitely a better duelist, seeing how he defeated Celeste Morne, Kento Marek, Sha Koon, Kai Huddora, Beyghor Sahdett, An'ya Kuro and how he was beating Old Ben Kenobi, against Arcann who was on the losing end in his duels with the Outlander. Physically, Arcann could be faster, but Vader is no slouch given he has contended with the super-speedy TPM Darth Maul, generated afterimages with his lightsaber, and is definitely stronger than his opposition.

Darth Maul vs Count Dooku

Although this has become a heated debate, and many people vote on each one of them, Dooku wins a slight majority. He clearly has more technical skill, but Maul's Juyo brings a lot of kinetic power here, and as shown against Anakin Skywalker, Dooku is weak to forms such as Djem So or Juyo that bring a lot of kinetic power into their strikes. Maul's impressive strength does the rest. And while they are quite close in pure TK (Dooku has collapsed a cave; Maul has collapsed part of a cave; Dooku collapsed part of a hangar; Maul collapsed part of a tunnel. They have both ragdolled Kenobi, but what really tips the fight in the Count's favor is his Force Lightning. Now, Maul has his lightsaber which can deflect the Lightning, but the Lightning can help in other ways. Maul is stronger and faster, but Dooku has the most important edges (skill and power.) A fight between these two would most likely occur like this; Maul starts on the offensive, pressing Dooku. While Maul does gain the initial upper hand, he can not bypass Dooku's guard. Somehow, probably through evasion, which Dooku is good at, Dooku breaks away from Maul and throws out some Force Lightning or a Force Push, and Maul would deflect the former and counter the latter. This, however, will break Maul's momentum, and Dooku can attack. Juyo is weak for defense, and Dooku will bypass Maul's guard, cutting him down.

Final:

ANH Vader vs Count Dooku

Many people would say Vader, yes, I know, and that would be the case if this were Prime (ESB/ROTJ) Vader. But Dooku is more skilled than Vader, given how he has defeated and faced more challenging opponents than the cyborg. While Vader's brute strength and mainly, his Djem So, would fare well against Dooku, since Vader is stronger than Anakin, and Vader does know Dooku's technique, but Vader lost to a TPM Maul which is less skilled than the Count. And Maul/Galen Marek have abused speed and agility over ANH/pre-ANH Vader, so Dooku could do the same. In TK, Vader is more powerful, but Dooku has Force Lightning, and although that can be countered by Vader, it will be fatal if it lands anything resembling a hit. Dooku wins due to his slightly superior skill that could bypass Vader's guard, and abuse of speed and agility.

Lord Tyranus wins.

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#32 Posted by Emperordmb (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1:

ANH Vader vs Wyyrlok: Vader wins due to superior dueling capabilities and telekinesis.

Zannah vs Arcann: Zannah wins because her fight with Bane shows she can hold somebody off whose above Arcann's caliber and Arcann doesn't have any willpower feats that suggest he could resist Zannah's sorcery.

Maul vs Malgus: Malgus wins due to his noticeably superior command of the Force.

Dooku vs Sedriss: Dooku wins by being better in every relevant way.

Round 2:

ANH Vader vs Zannah: Some of you might consider this blasphemy but I don't really care. Vader does have very impressive displays of willpower but he's also haunted by his past and consumed with self-hatred, so I doubt he'd be able to overcome Zannah's sorcery.

Malgus vs Dooku: Honestly not really sure

Final Round

Zannah vs Malgus/Dooku: Zannah can take either of them. Malgus is Bane light as a duelist and Force wielder and doesn't have good enough displays of willpower to overcome her sorcery, and Dooku has next to nothing as far as displays of willpower go.

Winner: Darth Zannah

She's already displayed the ability to hold off Bane, so she can hold off any of these guys in a fight, and none of them have willpower close enough to Bane's to overcome her sorcery except for Vader who is too psychologically disturbed to do so. And for those of you saying Zannah won't get a chance to use her sorcery... reread ROT. Ten years before her prime she only needs a brief pause to do so, and these occur in almost every single duel in star wars at some point or another, and even if not Zannah could simply leap several meters back and use her sorcery in the brief period of time it takes for the other person to close the gap. There's no reason she can't use her sorcery against any of them and none of them can resist.

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#33 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6165 posts) - - Show Bio

I should probably make something more in depth.

Round 1

ANH Vader vs Wyyrlock: Vader has a technical advantage in sabers, Wyyrlock has greater force variety and arguably equal/slightly inferior power. While Vader might be able to press Wyyrlock, there is a very real possibility that Wyyrlock could TP him. Given the high likelihood that Wyyrlock is aware of Vader's past due to his place in timeline, the likelihood of it succeeding is reasonably high. Vader wins a small majority on the back of his sabers and minor power advantage being a more consistent edge.

Arcann vs Zannah: A lot of how you rank Zannah depends on how you rank Bane. Arcann has the necessary hype in sabers to at least press her and his TK is impressive. But like with most of Zannah's matchup's it comes down to the sorcery. Given that Arcann's prime is likely himself at the end of KotET (and considering that LS story options are usually the canon ones) by which time Arcann had conquered most of his demons and resolved matters with his father. It's likely he could shake them off. In which case I think he will take it in a marathon.

Malgus vs Maul: Maul is better than Malgus in most every way. And while his lightning might be a wildcard in his favour that certainly has the power to down Maul. More often than not my money is on the Zabrak.

Dooku vs Sedriss: Dooku is the better duelist and I'm not aware of any force feats from Sedriss apart from blowing himself up that would be any indication of parity to Dooku.

Round 2

ANH Vader vs Arcann: Vader is better in every way. I really don't feel much elaboration is necessary here.

Maul vs Dooku: Dooku is more powerful, skilled and has a style advantage. It would be a good fight. But the victor is clear.

Final Round

ANH Vader vs Dooku: Either could win here.

Vader has advanced in skill at this point, but not to the point where he can beat the Count purely that way. Though his power moves are a tick in his favour. Dooku has evaded and undermined the strikes of late TCW Anakin. Who is quite comparable to Vader. I'd lean Tyranus slightly.

Vader is the more powerful telekinetic. Not to the degree of domination. But the edge is there and enough to make a difference. Dooku's lightning can be blocked by Vader's saber or tanked via the insulators in his armour. So it's not really a trump card. I lean Vader slightly

It can go either way. However if we are considering character, Vader having beat Dooku in the past might tip things in his favour knowledge wise.

If you held a gun to my head I would say Vader.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5be183e26f3e9 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

Toss up between Dooku or Vader.

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#35 Edited by Emperordmb (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: @saiyatoniansage

Too be fair, if you go the light route in kotet Arcaan resolves most of his issues.

Arcann vs Zannah: A lot of how you rank Zannah depends on how you rank Bane. Arcann has the necessary hype in sabers to at least press her and his TK is impressive. But like with most of Zannah's matchup's it comes down to the sorcery. Given that Arcann's prime is likely himself at the end of KotET (and considering that LS story options are usually the canon ones) by which time Arcann had conquered most of his demons and resolved matters with his father. It's likely he could shake them off. In which case I think he will take it in a marathon.

The extent to which Arcann has resolved most of his issues and overcome his demons is being overblown IMO. He was unwilling to go to Nathema because he was afraid he would return to his old ways if he was in the presence of that world, so if he can't handle that I seriously doubt he can handle Zannah's sorcery.

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#36 Posted by DarthFallax (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely Dooku or Vader, though Wyyrlok and Zannah honestly have a shot.

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#37 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6165 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by DarthFallax (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

Quote?

@azronger said:
Sedriss is officially stated to be possibly Palpatine's strongest disciple after Vader,
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#41 Edited by deactivated-5be183e26f3e9 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthfallax:

It's from Star Wars: Dark Empire Trilogy. Sorry for the poor Ms paint skills.No Caption Provided

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#42 Posted by DarthFallax (1638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6165 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#44 Posted by DarthFallax (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

Arcann, Vader or Dooku.

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#45 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader

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#46 Posted by CuckedCurry (954 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku.

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