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#251 Edited by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@heaven_sings7: The problem is Darkseid can regenerate from nothing . Thor can't .

Lol I can see Thor saying Odin's Eye while broken on the ground xD

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#252 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio
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#253 Posted by Jimmy_Rustler (3125 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#254 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio
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#255 Posted by tensor (8505 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofkings1: Done many times before Superman has the edge over Thor.

Let us give Thor the benefit of hitting Superman with Some Lighting and even the Hammer.

Once Superman sees his bag of tricks he could change the battle all together.

Nothing Thor can do from stop Superman from pounding him and keeping him away from his hammer.

Worst when he sees that he cannot fly without.

He will use disadvantage to his advantage.

That is the type of fighter he is in battle.

His reflex is quite good to dodge Thor attacks.Cannot say the same for Thor to Superman.

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#256 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

DS Sentry is way more powerful than Superman has been and Thor was still able to keep up and even, also

He was toying with Thor.

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#257 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@realitywarper: true but that doesn't change that Thor was capable of fight him.

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#258 Edited by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:

@realitywarper: true but that doesn't change that Thor was capable of fight him.

He lowered his durability and turned off his energy absorption.

A Sentry fighting seriously gives not a chance to Thor.

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#259 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@tensor said:

@kingofkings1: Done many times before Superman has the edge over Thor.

Let us give Thor the benefit of hitting Superman with Some Lighting and even the Hammer.

Once Superman sees his bag of tricks he could change the battle all together.

Nothing Thor can do from stop Superman from pounding him and keeping him away from his hammer.

Worst when he sees that he cannot fly without.

He will use disadvantage to his advantage.

That is the type of fighter he is in battle.

His reflex is quite good to dodge Thor attacks.Cannot say the same for Thor to Superman.

3622118-2830344-justiceleague_16_thegroup_013.jpg (3975×3056)

1936035-if_superman_can_be_hurt_by_livewires_attack_then_he_couldnt_solo_naruto_bleach_an_16901.jpg (1024×1617)

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#260 Posted by DevilGamer (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#261 Posted by KingOfKings1 (2092 posts) - - Show Bio
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#262 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:

@realitywarper: true but that doesn't change that Thor was capable of fight him.

He lowered his durability and turned off his energy absorption.

A Sentry fighting seriously let not a chance to Thor.

No, a DS Sentry seriously let no chance to Thor, Thor already fight a Sentry/Void super confident and won.

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#263 Edited by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:
@mrdevil said:

@realitywarper: true but that doesn't change that Thor was capable of fight him.

He lowered his durability and turned off his energy absorption.

A Sentry fighting seriously let not a chance to Thor.

No, a DS Sentry seriously let no chance to Thor, Thor already fight a Sentry/Void super confident and won.

The confidence has nothing to do with Sentry powers.

Moreover Bob let Thor kill him during Siege.

Bendis is very clear about it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26287

In this scene, Thor finally ends the threat of the Void AKA Bob Reynolds by killing him. It seems like when you consider the Void's power level, the only way this could have happened was because the Void wanted to die.

I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don't like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I'll put two things out there.

I think we've all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you're dealing with a crazy person, you can't trust what they're saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn't mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character's creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I know that's difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don't want to feel like they're being fucked with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn't one second throughout the run of "Dark Avengers" where he was in control of himself.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away. I just didn't want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, "Boy, if he didn't want us to kill him, we couldn't have killed him." I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn't give a shit how it happened [Laughs].

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#264 Posted by KingOfKings1 (2092 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman still stomps . Sentry > Molecular man > Superman > Thor

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#265 Posted by TopTierGoat (372 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be awesome... if people tried to debate maturely and rationally, and left out the lowball tactics. That would be awesome!

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#266 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: That was from Final Crisis

thanks. also this is Post Crisis/New52

Lol yea but Superman from Final Crisis is the Post Crisis Superman

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#267 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:
@mrdevil said:

@realitywarper: true but that doesn't change that Thor was capable of fight him.

He lowered his durability and turned off his energy absorption.

A Sentry fighting seriously let not a chance to Thor.

No, a DS Sentry seriously let no chance to Thor, Thor already fight a Sentry/Void super confident and won.

The confidence has nothing to do with Sentry powers.

Moreover Bob let Thor kill him during Siege.

Bendis is very clear about it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26287

In this scene, Thor finally ends the threat of the Void AKA Bob Reynolds by killing him. It seems like when you consider the Void's power level, the only way this could have happened was because the Void wanted to die.

I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don't like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I'll put two things out there.

I think we've all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you're dealing with a crazy person, you can't trust what they're saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn't mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character's creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I know that's difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don't want to feel like they're being fucked with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn't one second throughout the run of "Dark Avengers" where he was in control of himself.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away. I just didn't want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, "Boy, if he didn't want us to kill him, we couldn't have killed him." I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn't give a shit how it happened [Laughs].

Then that means that if Sentry wanted he wasn't going to be killed by anyone. And Thor kill him bc Sentry allow it. yet that doens't change the fact that Thor did kill a not holding back sentry/void. 3808281-3834075663-36735.jpg (1023×791)

Thor wasn't trying to kill Sentry either

I've noticed that a couple of people had a problem with Thor killing the Void, but Thor is part of a pantheon of deities worshiped by a warrior culture. So I imagine that while Thor might not like killing much, when push comes to shove it's something he'll do.

Right, and it also wasn't his first choice. It was a third choice. He flat out said, "No I won't kill you," and then no choice was given. So if anything, it was one of the most noble and heroic things Thor has done. He tried everything in his power to be the better man and then took care of business when he had no other choice. So I thought it was a good moment.

ThorvsSentry01Siege3.jpg (1023×789)

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ThorvsSentry03Siege3.jpg (1023×800)

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ThorvsSentry05.jpg (1024×791)

Thor was still able to keep up with a No-Hold back Sentry, also is not like Superman has been any close to do something like that sentry has done (besides lifting) and Thor wasn't even going on full power.

1816203-thormjolnir243_lightningchaoswar5.jpg (597×914) - Mikaboshi had absorbed most of the Universe.

3634201-5319862243-31916.jpg (582×900) - Supeman hasn't fight anything like that

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#268 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: If Sentry don't hold back he kills Thor in one-blow...

I don't know if you get the non-sense you just did here.

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#269 Posted by w0nd (6803 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be awesome... if people tried to debate maturely and rationally, and left out the lowball tactics. That would be awesome!

this is comicvine you fool, not logicvine

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#270 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: That was from Final Crisis

thanks. also this is Post Crisis/New52

Lol yea but Superman from Final Crisis is the Post Crisis Superman

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that's without going on Odinforce that is not allowed.

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#271 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart:You are quite correct. Even before we get to issue two of the series, we can see Superman already getting up, then charging into battle (with the rest of the JLA) in silluoette as issue 1 ends. In issue two, of course, is where Superman DECISIVELY polishes off Thor.

@mrdevil if you can't even admit the inescapable truth that Thor was defeated by Superman in JLA/Avengers (even going so far as to post only the scans that favor Thor-as if that somehow magically alters the truth of what happened)---then I'm not going to waste my time with you. "Liking" a character is fine. But who one "likes" better, and who would WIN are two different things. If you won't even concede what can be CLEARLY SHOWN in a comic, than you are too FAN, not FACT ridden for me to converse with.

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#272 Posted by TifaLockhart (21135 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: I just read your scans attempting to lowball Superman. Thanks for the laugh.

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#273 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman still blitzes Thor.

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#274 Posted by EmperorxHadesx420 (2324 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes stomp

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#275 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@realitywarper said:

@mrdevil: If Sentry don't hold back he kills Thor in one-blow...

I don't know if you get the non-sense you just did here.

Depend in what entry you mean, cause Sentry/Void was defeated by WWH, that was matched by Juggernau, that has been defeated by Thor in physical combat. Also Herc was matching Hulk until he stop fighting, Thor with > Herc >= Thor without hammer.

@theonewhoknows said:

@tifalockhart:You are quite correct. Even before we get to issue two of the series, we can see Superman already getting up, then charging into battle (with the rest of the JLA) in silluoette as issue 1 ends. In issue two, of course, is where Superman DECISIVELY polishes off Thor.

@mrdevil if you can't even admit the inescapable truth that Thor was defeated by Superman in JLA/Avengers (even going so far as to post only the scans that favor Thor-as if that somehow magically alters the truth of what happened)---then I'm not going to waste my time with you. "Liking" a character is fine. But who one "likes" better, and who would WIN are two different things. If you won't even concede what can be CLEARLY SHOWN in a comic, than you are too FAN, not FACT ridden for me to converse with.

I check yeah you are right, yet let me describe the entire first fight:

Thor send flying Superman to a building, SM stand up during the fight (never seen when) and he and Martian Manhunter send flying Thor with a united punch and Thor says:

Verily... this "justice League" may be raving dangerous madmen... but still, they are doughty warriors indeed!

and then send flying MM with a lightning, and later star fighting Wonder Woman, after that the fight is interrupted by Scarlet Witch.

Second Fight

Thor punches the ground and superman flees up and come back down with a punch to Thor's face, Thor hits SM back and SM hit him back too. Thor send flying Superman, and Thor is charging with his hammer, SM answers with his eye-beams that Thor (instead of elude receive directly like he has done other times), Thor keeps advancing for some reason (instead of covering himself with the hammer as he has done other times), and when he hits Superman with the hammer, tired and barely talking SM stop it with the hammer (let me tell the pro and con of this, Pro: it has already happen against Count Nefaria that could be said is Marvel's Zod, Cons: is possible to superman do it with a tired Thor and due to being worthy as he was IF Superman wasn't vulnerable to magic attacks) let's keep going, and answer with a big attack against a tired Thor and knocks him out. He says

He... may be... single tougheft opponent... I've ever...

And is interrupted by a round of energy and fists from Iron Man, Wonder Man, Hercules, She Hulk and Vision (that for some reason the rest of his teammates didn't intervene bc were so busy battling against foes like, Wasp, SW, Quicksilver, Black Panther, Hawkeye, well this part is comprehensible i mean their most powerful teammates were being held back by the heavy hitters of the Avengers (yes i'm being sarcastic in this part).

See why most Thor fans (not including me) didn't like this comic?

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#276 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:

@mrdevil: If Sentry don't hold back he kills Thor in one-blow...

I don't know if you get the non-sense you just did here.

Depend in what entry you mean, cause Sentry/Void was defeated by WWH, that was matched by Juggernau, that has been defeated by Thor in physical combat. Also Herc was matching Hulk until he stop fighting, Thor with > Herc >= Thor without hammer.

Sentry was depowered during World War Hulk after 29 hours of agoraphobia.

He was at his lowest and even then he got the upper hand in the fight and he forced Hulk in his strongest incarnation to revert in human form.

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http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/why-sentry-was-weakened-during-the-world-war-hulk--1616722/?page=1

Greg Pak was asked who between Green Scar (th Hulk from World War Hulk) and Odin Force Thor would win in a fight and he implied that Odin Force Thor would be wrecked by World War Hulk.

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/columns/p/detail/a-visit-from-lopresti

MZ:Since Thor has the Odinforce and is more powerful than his father, is he stronger than the Green Scar?

GP: All I can say is that if I were Thor, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the Sentry’s place during the climactic battle in “World War Hulk” #5.

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#277 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

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#278 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

Thor has tanked Godbuster bombs that were going to explode across the entire time-space killing every god that has or will ever exist. Planet buster bomb, Phoenix Force, Galactus, Killed more powerful gods. and you bring the Final Crisis feat.

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#279 Edited by hatemalingsia (15494 posts) - - Show Bio

Greg Pak was asked who between Green Scar (th Hulk from World War Hulk) and Odin Force Thor would win in a fight and he implied that Odin Force Thor would be wrecked by World War Hulk.

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/columns/p/detail/a-visit-from-lopresti

MZ:Since Thor has the Odinforce and is more powerful than his father, is he stronger than the Green Scar?

GP: All I can say is that if I were Thor, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the Sentry’s place during the climactic battle in “World War Hulk” #5.

Huh, interesting.

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#280 Edited by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

Thor has tanked Godbuster bombs that were going to explode across the entire time-space killing every god that has or will ever exist. Planet buster bomb, Phoenix Force, Galactus, Killed more powerful gods. and you bring the Final Crisis feat.

That was really good feat when he tanked that bomb into his body yes, but it is an unquantifiable feat, we do not know how powerful that was in terms of megatons of force or whatever..and absorbing is inferior to the actual explosion, its not like the thing exploded and he tanked it, that would have been a better feat

Superman has a feat similar to this one and its quantifiable in terms of measurement of force, he absorbed the Mageddon Bomb which can vaporize half a Galaxy, see we have something to equate the feat with, which is he absorbed energy or anti-sunlight to vaporize half a Galaxy

Oh and Superman was smiling while doing this

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#281 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:

@mrdevil: If Sentry don't hold back he kills Thor in one-blow...

I don't know if you get the non-sense you just did here.

Depend in what entry you mean, cause Sentry/Void was defeated by WWH, that was matched by Juggernau, that has been defeated by Thor in physical combat. Also Herc was matching Hulk until he stop fighting, Thor with > Herc >= Thor without hammer.

Sentry was depowered during World War Hulk after 29 hours of agoraphobia.

He was at his lowest and even then he got the upper hand in the fight and he forced Hulk in his strongest incarnation to revert in human form.

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http://www.comicvine.com/sentry/4005-1454/forums/why-sentry-was-weakened-during-the-world-war-hulk--1616722/?page=1

Greg Pak was asked who between Green Scar (th Hulk from World War Hulk) and Odin Force Thor would win in a fight and he implied that Odin Force Thor would be wrecked by World War Hulk.

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/columns/p/detail/a-visit-from-lopresti

MZ:Since Thor has the Odinforce and is more powerful than his father, is he stronger than the Green Scar?

GP: All I can say is that if I were Thor, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the Sentry’s place during the climactic battle in “World War Hulk” #5.

yeah he says If i were Thor, only problem is that with everything Thor has shown and Green Scar in WBHulk is pretty much known that Thor can still match the power of WWHulk without the Odin Force,

Mohammad Zaki:How strong is Hercules compared to the Hulk in World War Hulk?

GP: In “Incredible Hulk” #107, Herc delivered a few monumental blows to the Green Goliath but then pretty much got pounded into the ground. Now it’s possible that Herc heroically let Hulk pummel him to make a point -- that not everyone on Earth was out to fight the Hulk. Which could mean that Hulk and Herc never did fully establish who’s the strongest. But by the end of “World War Hulk,” the Hulk grew so insanely powerful that I’d be hard pressed to imagine even the Lion of Olympus standing up to him for long.

Shameless plug -- if you’re curious about what Hercules is up to these days, dontcha dare miss “Incredible Hercules” #113, written by yours truly and the brilliant Fred Van Lente, hitting comic book stores on January 16.

Hercules and hulk neither was actually stayed whom was the stronger, and Thor has actually defeated Hercules in most times they fight,

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last time Thor and Herc fight it end up like this.

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against Hulk, Thor usually contains and every time he let go in battle he could even kill him. Now imagine what could happen when Thor fights with the Odinforce. We have seen what Green Scar can do, we have seen that Thor base can do if he wanted to. Inmagine WBHulk vs Odinforce Thor none of them holding back.

Base Thor without holding back vs World Breaker Hulk

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Imagine what a Odin force Thor can do or what a Skyfather Thor can do with the Odin force (we already saw it in Ragnarok) and Skyfather Thor had the Odinforce almost burned down, before clashing with Galactus.

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#282 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

Thor has tanked Godbuster bombs that were going to explode across the entire time-space killing every god that has or will ever exist. Planet buster bomb, Phoenix Force, Galactus, Killed more powerful gods. and you bring the Final Crisis feat.

That was really good feat when he tanked that bomb into his body yes, but it is an unquantifiable feat, we do not know how powerful that was in terms of megatons of force or whatever..and absorbing is inferior to the actual explosion, its not like the thing exploded and he tanked it, that would have been a better feat

Superman has a feat similar to this one and its quantifiable in terms of measurement of force, he absorbed the Mageddon Bomb which can vaporize half a Galaxy, see we have something to equate the feat with, which is he absorbed energy or anti-sunlight to vaporize half a Galaxy

Oh and Superman was smiling while doing this

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only one big difference Superman's bomb was going to destroy half the galaxy (and was anti solar energy) he absorb it, Thor's bomb was going to detonate through time and space and kill all the gods.

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#283 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

Mohammad Zaki:How strong is Hercules compared to the Hulk in World War Hulk?

GP: In “Incredible Hulk” #107, Herc delivered a few monumental blows to the Green Goliath but then pretty much got pounded into the ground. Now it’s possible that Herc heroically let Hulk pummel him to make a point -- that not everyone on Earth was out to fight the Hulk. Which could mean that Hulk and Herc never did fully establish who’s the strongest. But by the end of “World War Hulk,” the Hulk grew so insanely powerful that I’d be hard pressed to imagine even the Lion of Olympus standing up to him for long.

That means that Green Scar >>> Herc.

Thor Vs Current Avenger Hulk

Hulk one-shotted Thor.

He jumped on him and punched him one time and Thor felt on the ground unconscious.

It's called a one-shot.

Ex-Nihilo never fought Thor.

Hulk was mind-controlled and Ex-Nihilo used his powers to tie Thor to a tree after the fight.

Let's look at this fight again then :

Scan 1 :

Thor spin his hammer and is waiting for his opponents to do something.

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================================================

Scan 2 :

Hulk jump on Thor and one-shot him.

Thor fell on the ground unconscious.

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Scan 3 :

After the fight, Thor is tied to a tree by Ex-Nihilo.

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=========================================

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#284 Posted by Jesusthesefanboys (1049 posts) - - Show Bio

Tbh i feel Thor could just get blitz, even new 52 when fighting stronger opponents resorted to blitzing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125391/4294600-1bjx2014-09-10+06-50-19+-+superman+unchained+%282013-%29+008-007.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125391/4294601-1bjx2014-09-10+06-50-19+-+superman+unchained+%282013-%29+008-008.jpg

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#285 Posted by TheNewBlueBeetle007 (4758 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Ravage proved that superman wins

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#286 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:

@heaven_sings7 said:
@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

Thor has tanked Godbuster bombs that were going to explode across the entire time-space killing every god that has or will ever exist. Planet buster bomb, Phoenix Force, Galactus, Killed more powerful gods. and you bring the Final Crisis feat.

That was really good feat when he tanked that bomb into his body yes, but it is an unquantifiable feat, we do not know how powerful that was in terms of megatons of force or whatever..and absorbing is inferior to the actual explosion, its not like the thing exploded and he tanked it, that would have been a better feat

Superman has a feat similar to this one and its quantifiable in terms of measurement of force, he absorbed the Mageddon Bomb which can vaporize half a Galaxy, see we have something to equate the feat with, which is he absorbed energy or anti-sunlight to vaporize half a Galaxy

Oh and Superman was smiling while doing this

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only one big difference Superman's bomb was going to destroy half the galaxy (and was anti solar energy) he absorb it, Thor's bomb was going to detonate through time and space and kill all the gods.

They are both very impressive feats, but one is quantifiable and measurable and the other is not, so how can we judge a character's durability based on an unquantifiable feat ? we can't, we cannot judge a character's durability based on an unquantifiable feat

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#287 Posted by Imperfect_Cell (4022 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like where this thread is going.

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#288 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:

In all of those scan Thor and his enemies are fighting at FTL speed.

Can you prove that?

Don't misunderstand my tone. I'm a Thor fan (although not so much these days, know what I mean?).

Based on what I've seen of the Thunder God, I cannot in good conscience award Thor FTL reflexes.

Why does thor have jumps in speed and his combat speed so inconsistent? answer truly is so he can fight every popular character at that time since he is so popular..If thor fights wolverine then it sells books and if he fights surfer, it again sells books. He has more than enough showings to prove that he can react to characters whom are as fast as supes, but people tend to choose to only pay attention to his lower showings and their minds are never going to be changed. You either believe he can or you believe he can't.. The thing about this particular fight is bfr is allowed,, so how does supes not get bfr'd? how does supes not eventually get wore down with magical attacks? and what does he do about the God Blast?

There is some bias against Thor around here for sure...I think that contributes more than anything to the idea that Thor has no reaction speed to speak of.

The way I appraise a character's reaction speed is: "What has the character done that clearly indicates he/she can react at < insert level of speed > and leaves no doubt in the mind of the reader". Superman has feats for reacting at near the speed of light. Wally West has numerous feats that show he's fast enough to engage in time travel shenanigans, etc, etc....and all without being measured against other characters (per se). Also, the feats performed should also be feats that reasonably, logically translate to combat/reaction speed.

The problem is lots of people have ideas about why a character is written a certain way. At the end of the day, the most unbiased way to appraise a character's power set is by carefully evaluating what the feats/scans say about the character in question.

Regarding Thor, you're talking about a character with 50 years of continuity....whom I have never seen react at faster than light speed. So, if I see something remotely that indicates Thor could be reacting at FTL speeds, the first question in my mind is, "what changed between now and then that clearly indicates that Thor can now move at FTL speeds". In Thor's case, I don't have a basis for supporting FTL speeds based on that criteria.

Hey, who knows: maybe after Secret Wars is over, a new version of Thor will step forward that IS FTL.

THAT would be cool.

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#289 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:

Why does thor have jumps in speed and his combat speed so inconsistent? answer truly is so he can fight every popular character at that time since he is so popular..If thor fights wolverine then it sells books and if he fights surfer, it again sells books. He has more than enough showings to prove that he can react to characters whom are as fast as supes, but people tend to choose to only pay attention to his lower showings and their minds are never going to be changed. You either believe he can or you believe he can't.. The thing about this particular fight is bfr is allowed,, so how does supes not get bfr'd? how does supes not eventually get wore down with magical attacks? and what does he do about the God Blast?

I appreciate that perspective. Thing is, the only thing we all have to go on if we assume foul play is at hand (i.e., writer's bowing to what's popular) is a presumption. I mean, we really don't know.

I just honestly have not seen legitimate FTL reaction speed from Thor. A bullet timer? For sure.

Thor could certainly BFR...but if each character is going all out and Supes is using his speed, I don't know how Thor even gets the chance to.

Magical attacks is something that has evolved somewhat over the years with Supes. It started out a full blown weakness....but DC's stance now is that "Superman has no more a defense to magical attacks than the average person does...".

Speed equalized? Thor would probably have the edge.

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#290 Posted by lxlGiftedlxl (2443 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say Superman.

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#291 Edited by alessandro_souzamarques (899 posts) - - Show Bio
@heaven_sings7 said:
@mrdevil said:
@heaven_sings7 said:

@mrdevil: Lol and what are those scans for exactly ? those are cool and all so basically you used some of Thor's best scans you could find ? anyone can do that for a character including Superman's best feats etc...a black hole or supernova is way more powerful than the winds of a thousand worlds, which Superman has tanked plenty supernovas

Thor has tanked Godbuster bombs that were going to explode across the entire time-space killing every god that has or will ever exist. Planet buster bomb, Phoenix Force, Galactus, Killed more powerful gods. and you bring the Final Crisis feat.

That was really good feat when he tanked that bomb into his body yes, but it is an unquantifiable feat, we do not know how powerful that was in terms of megatons of force or whatever..and absorbing is inferior to the actual explosion, its not like the thing exploded and he tanked it, that would have been a better feat

Superman has a feat similar to this one and its quantifiable in terms of measurement of force, he absorbed the Mageddon Bomb which can vaporize half a Galaxy, see we have something to equate the feat with, which is he absorbed energy or anti-sunlight to vaporize half a Galaxy

Oh and Superman was smiling while doing this

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Even Odin was on his knees dying from the God Bomb and praying for Thor to save him along with every other single god on the Universe.

Pretty sure that makes the feat much more impressive than absorbing the energy of a bomb said to be capable of destroying half a galaxy before it could detonate.

Thor also took a blast from Glory that contained the totality of his power before absorbing and sending it back to him.

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Glory had the power of ten thousand of gods and was said to be equal to a full powered blood-lusted Odin.

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The same Odin who destroys multiple galaxies as a side effect of his battles.

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#292 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@alessandro_souzamarques: It had Odin on his knees, so what ? that bomb was specifically for them and to kill them, for all we know it would not have killed a different character like Thanos or Darkseid, and still with what Superman did we have a quantifiable feat which is measured, with Thor's feat its an unquantifiable feat so we cannot use it to measure durability, Thor also absorbed that bomb BEFORE it could detonate...just like what Supes did

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#293 Posted by Heaven_Sings7 (132 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Ravage proved that superman wins

Pretty much yea..he already proved it

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#294 Posted by ElmoHump (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

@elmohump:But of course it works if you're trying to make Thor look slow, correct?

Read my comment till it gets to your head cause it's literally a logical unbias statement. Take your fanboy goggles off and you might realize that.

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#295 Edited by alessandro_souzamarques (899 posts) - - Show Bio
@heaven_sings7 said:

@alessandro_souzamarques: It had Odin on his knees, so what ? that bomb was specifically for them and to kill them, for all we know it would not have killed a different character like Thanos or Darkseid, and still with what Superman did we have a quantifiable feat which is measured, with Thor's feat its an unquantifiable feat so we cannot use it to measure durability, Thor also absorbed that bomb BEFORE it could detonate...just like what Supes did

It still shows how much punishment he can take regardless of the fact it's designed to kill them since it has enough power to kill Odin (and would have if wasn't for Thor absorbing it while standing at heart of the God Bomb). If he can take that kind of punishment then he should be able to take any other kind of punishment on this same level. The God Bomb's blast was going to engulf the entire Universe throughout time.

The anti-sun bomb being capable of destroying half a galaxy with its blastwould actually mean something if he took the blast from the bomb and absorbed it after the explosion happened. Instead, he absorbed the energy inside the bomb before it could explode. Absorbing the energy directly from the warhead is a lot different than absorbing it from the blast.

Superman's body was made to absorb solar energy, so the only thing that was unnatural for his body was the fact it was "anti sun" energy.

Thor also absorbed that bomb BEFORE it could detonate...just like what Supes did

Except he didn't. He absorbed it after it detonated.

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Re-read my last comment. I edited in a few things before you replied.

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#296 Posted by reaverlation (25881 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman 1/1

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#297 Posted by TheGrayGhost (4173 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf:

1. Flash while " holding back" has done everything from outracing individual molecules of the big bang as it expands to outracing the concept of death itself , this whole sequence while noting he isnt overtly exerting himself and at one point waiting for death to catch up with him, as far as how hard he was trying goes

Flash while not even aware, forget " holding back" , has his superspeed kick in as he feels a bullet on his neck and immediatley reaches superspeed, as far as him holding back goes

This is what makes the " He hit Flash!" arguments so funny. Superspeed doesn't have an on switch to the point of an entire issue of heh superman and flash seeing the world at a standstill relative to them goes

they can't be tagged , whether holding back or not, by anyone not having at least comparable speed to them

At a very basic level given they can race around walls/ cities/ cars/ people without going splat , any " sudden movement caught them by surprise " logic goes " poof!" instantenously

So for either superman to tag Flash, or Thor to tag say Gladiator , they have to be as fast as them to make it valid

Superman does not have independent speed feats outside of tagging wally ( well actually he does but they are outliers given his overall career) to show him being capable of doing that, heck even his " races" must necessarily be thrown out

Superman tagging wally is about as valid as Batman doing the same, given relative to Wally they are both statues by independent , non jobbing related feats , to the extent of just to name one feat, Wally putting out the fire in JLA 1 iirc before supes even realizes wally has spoken ( the issue btw also has a mini race between the two where they run even , just to show how even the issue itself is contradictory)

Likewise Thor jobbing out the likes of gladiator without having any feats to suggest he is otherwise capable of doing so, makes the feats useless just fine

2. Sure you want FTL marvel characters? Norrin Radd just to name one

To be FTL , you basically only need yknow clear cut FTL feats consistent with other showings/ not contradicted by anything else

In the case of the surfer dudes been FTL to the extent of flying through time itself as far back as SS 7 in the 60s. Following that up with the FTL feat vs durok in heh Thor in the late sixties, and since then any number of microsecond/ nanosecond feats , time travelling feats, noted to be FTL while fighting Deathurge , and rescuing Nova, the gauntlet grab, anything , even the fight with Cable a few years back where they fight all over the planet too fast for shield tech to track ...while simultenously repairing the damage even as they cause

Thats all you need to be FTL. Consistent ...*feats*

I understand you are having difficulties providing the same for Thor. none of anything you mentioned, has remotely anything to do with FTL reaction speed , in fact none of them are actual clear cut feats outside of the microsecond feat

Which is when you resort to trying to pass off travel speed feats ( black hole feat) as reaction feats, or in the worst case scenario, making up feats where they dont exist ( squirming in sentrys grip as they go at ftl speeds. Seriously even leaving aside the fact that squirming in someones grip as they bearhug you and calling it a speed feat, is the equivalent of a dude dancing the conga on a supersonic plane and claiming to have supersonic reflexes, basic science , since you are so keen to invoke it , dictates that given Thors relative motion vis a vis sentry is exactly zero, thats a reaction feat amounting to nada)

Or of course the classic " he tagged a faster dude ! " tactic. Is Batman FTL then? Actually ignore that. Just to pick one of these, gladiator

Gladiator otherwise in the Black Celestial arc running through FF flew across the stellar distances in hours through a universe that was for all intents and purposes....frozen in time , to the point of Kallark noting how he is using hyperspeed to speed through said time freeze. Reed then builds a machine and a couple of belts for them to ignore said dilation and have the likes of untransformed ben move across the shiar statues that the people have become for 15 days without anyone moving ( earlier in the arc , a plane is literally frozen in the sky as far as how strong the dilation was) . Glads then spots them and goes toe to toe trading blows with Thor. The problem?

Thors wearing one of Reeds belts and is in fact specifically warned at one point not to stray from the time sled ( before he wore the belt) lest he become frozen in time like everyone else in the freakin universe

So when Thor does things like tag Kallark outside of this, you will forgive me if I dont take the feat seriously given Thor needed the universe to freeze to actually match him in a fight

Oh and while we are about Gladiator with feats like this one , moving through a universal time dilation, reacting in nanoseconds and even the amusing " have an internal debate about whether or not to save the dick of a master hes working for " while a bullet races across the city, combined with his limited appearances is another who ticks the FTL boxes just fine

If Thor had been doing any of this stuff , multiple clear cut lightspeed + speed feats like this , since the 60s , consistently like say the surfer , or at least enough speed feats to make his lower showings meaningless , him being FTL would have been under consideration

As it stands, dudes been struggling to hit them street levellers since the 60s same as his buddy Hulk, without even going to the almost complete absence of clear cut independent speed feats to make these kind of showings void

so yes him tagging gladiator or surfer? utter PIS. Him struggling vs Wolverine? pretty consistent

3. Flying next to it in space doesnt constitute a reaction speed feat in the first place, ignores the concept of relative motion since you are so into science, and ignores how BIG space is

Batman can otherwise , while stationary and not having the support of his relative motion being nada relative to said object, has noted stuff moving at 1/10th the speed of light from the watchtower

Kyle in league of one? Flies alongside a comet moving through the solar system while noting that it doesnt seem to be moving at all

4. If *you actually knew science* you would know that the speed of light hasnt/ cant ever be exceeded in the first place , and if it did we would be moving through time unable to see anything because we are freakin faster than light

So since we are applying science and all here, why do you feel Thor moving at FTL travel speeds through space is legit from anything we know about science?

And since we are talking about fan made calcs , superbro is infinite times FTL ( hey thats the actual equation yknow for objects moving at precisely lightspeed) when he was moving out of a DOUBLE BLACK HOLE!

Since double > single black hole, my fan made * science* calc > better than yours

Oh and btw thats not even how black holes work, without going to stuff like Red Hulk not even having crossed the event horizon

5. The feats you listed sure involve tagging a lot of faster people in the absence on any legitimate argument, a fan made calc and some brilliantly warped science, otherwise then proceeding to ignore said science when it comes to how perceiving objects moving through space goes , some more jobbing out of faster people including some without any quantifiable speed feats and what not , as a counter point to the consistency with which he has struggled with things as quantifiable as bullets, street levellers and the hulk, without any kind of clear cut feats to render this useless goes

Sure, you can on the basis of this, claim Thor is FTL and I can claim that the sun rises in the west, or whatever . Doesn't make either of us right

Still . Free Country. You want to sound stupid and biased? Your choice

6. None of what you bring up takes away anything from the fact that yes supes has 20+ showings , right from way back when Bryne was writing him, that render this sort of thing useless, right up to an issue devoted to him seeing the world frozen relative to him, or hey you want to get real crazy? Fundamentally ignoring a time freeze of nanoseconds without missing a beat as the rest of the planet lies frozen in time

Thor has exactly *one* speed feat over 60 years that is in any way close to that bracket, or quantifiable enough to make a comparision

Everything else is you trying too hard to get your favourite character a win, especially with an argument like " he tagged faster dude ( who probably wasnt even using his speed like 90% of all people who fight Thor. Seriously even in terms of relative PIS showings, Cap cold and slade at least tag wally moving in a blur)

If Thor had anything like a career worth of I dunno , even microsecond feats, we wont be having this debate. As it stands , even if he did notch up a nanosecond feat say tomorrow , I would tend to treat in the same manner as say post crisis supes one shotting a star tomorrow.

Utter PIS for the decades that have gone before this

7. sure every character is inconsistent. Sure writers dont give a flying one for things like consistency that we like to throw around here

So my question is, why bother? since its all FICTION, and you clearly want YOUR fictional character to win, why not write your own fan fiction scenario where thor whups supermans ass any which way you like? why pretend to talk about things like feats and consistency like you are , in the thread? why not go full wenjun chew ans have Thor beat LT while we are at it

Cause writers? They can write any old thing they want. Heck thor vs the phoenix force is a living example of that

Whatever made you decide to not post that feat as legit? going as far as to compare it with some of the absurd superman feats listed by me?

If its all fiction and all inconsistent , why are you even pretending to have a debate?

Just say whatever you want. Sincd you are absolutely 100% right. If the writer thinks superman can beat Impereix, he will. If the story demands Thor mess around the phoenix force and bust through celestials that his father +2 skyfathers with millenia of prep cant do anything about, he will

Likewise if the story demands Thor react in nanoseconds? he will

So basically this is a pointless waste of your time posting feats and talking about consistency if your argument ultimately boiled down to " its all FICTION! anything goes! Thor doesnt have * feats* but its fiction! He *could* still do it!"

Sure he could.

Or , we could try to pretend that things suchas consistency , feats, PIS et all actually exist and evaluate characters based on this, and their careers worth of high end feats

one of these choices results in an actual debate and belongs here. The other, comprises of you screaming " Its all FICTION! so thors feats of failing to react to bullets and otherwise near complete absence of consistent high end speed feats outside of jobbing speedsters dont matter at all! Thor wins because its fiction! and since i cant find an actual argument, thor wins because he can!"

The latter argument belongs on the thor forums or more appropriately , the fan fiction forums

8. The General blitzed him like he blitzed say Doomsday Rex? anything like that? scans for this?

I sure remember him *tagging* a supes moving specifically at supersonic speeds. But an actual blitz?

Or wait, are you actually saying your argument against supes' speed, which involves things like reacting to lightspeed objects from a standstill unawares as the multiverse collapses around him in terms of pressure, is that the General...tagged him

again, by this logic, is batman FTL?

Supes getting tagged by despero ( since im pretty confident despero has never ever blitzed anybody ever) is supposed to be valid even ignoring his feats, given Batman has remarked on occasion how despero is not fast enough to tag * batman*?

Your arguments get more amusing by the moment

Superman getting tagged by sonic attacks sure makes sense given even his lower end feats , have the dude catching bullets miles away ( And this is Stern era late 80s supes heh) AFTER they are fired ...bullets being in general varying degrees of supersonic to speed of sound

Ultimately of course this boils down to things as simple as " why is everyone questioning thors speed and not supermans?"

The reason behind literally nobody, ever, saying things like " Slowperman" or whatver as regards " Slowdinson", is because there never has been any doubt about the dudes speed because of actual , clear cut, consistent * feats*

Feats as clear cut as Bryne era supes reaching near lightspeed, working out a dozen reactions in a microsecond, circling the planet before finishing his own sentence, seeing lightning in slow motion and intercepting it etc. These are actual clear cut FEATS from the very beginning of his career to the end , consistently. His superspeed doesnt have an " on switch", its always there to the point of having issues devoted to seeing the world in a standstill relative to him

You want Thor to have superspeed? let me spell it out clearly then. Show me feats/ scans of thor REACTING in microseconds, nanoseconds, reacting to objects moving at lightspeed from standstill, seeing the world as stationary relative to him, moving through time dilations, racing around the planet at invisible super speed and spying on 60 people spread across the planet simulteneously , all of this unrelated to tagging faster people, that kind of thing.....from the , and this is imporatant, very beginning of his career (60s) to now, consistently

Given his overall no of appearances, I think 20 odd feats ought to do it

But since they dont exist, we are going to probably have to listen to you reaching for imaginary feats, twisting science, ignoring context or most likely just talking about hitting faster people

And this is the crux of the

matter. The only reason we are having this long drawn out " debate" , the only reason Thors speed is being brought up, is because in the absence of feats, you are somehow looking for ever more pathetic ways for your favourite character to win , without outright saying so. Heck you actually DID try saying so with the whole " its all fiction !" thing

Thor loses because he is slow

Deal with it

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#298 Posted by Urban_Ninja_X (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Thor.

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#299 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@heaven_sings7: except that the bomb of Superman he absorb it's energy due to being a anti-sun light and Thor's bomb was going to kill all the gods.

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#300 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2577 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Superman is not too fast for Thor. If Superman is too fast for Thor, then I guess enemies like Doomsday and Lex Luthor move as fast as Flash, right?

LOL. Doomsday was just as fast as him. Clark even said so while he was fighting him comparing him to the flash. Luthor has a kryptonite powered suit and Superman still blitz's him.