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#151 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Posting only when Thor got in a virtual sucker punch like blow doesn't change the fact that at the conclusion of their final battle, Superman was standing over the strewn, prone, utterly defeated carcass of Thor. And Thor CLAIMING that he has the Man Of Steel's measure does not mean a thing to the ACTUAL FACT that Kal DECISIVELY defeated the thunder god.

NOTHING can change the fact that in a battle with Thor---SUPERMAN WINS.

Only a small, little but really important, they haven't fight with both in character and much less at full power. And the Thor knocking Superman out with his hammer was in the first encounter of Avengers vs JLA which means they are in a draw.

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#152 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: At the very least, and this is ignoring the context of the story, Thor did not throw his hammer to the end of the galaxy and back in less than sixty seconds.

EDIT: The 20c instance is when Superman heard Luthor was elected President.

@tifalockhart: New 52 has flown at least 700 times faster than light, Post-Crisis even 2,629,804 times.

Scans?

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#153 Posted by TifaLockhart (21111 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Not that it's admissible here, but Superman wasn't even KO'd by the initial hammer toss. He's shown getting up on one of the monitors.

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#154 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart said:

@theonewhoknows: Not that it's admissible here, but Superman wasn't even KO'd by the initial hammer toss. He's shown getting up on one of the monitors.

yeah, when the battle was done also

No Caption Provided

Thor knock Superman in their first encounter. And more important yet

No Caption Provided

Kurt Busiek explained that both Superman and Captain America acted out of character, because being in different universes than their own was messing with their minds.

Dream Comic-Book Crossover: SUPERMAN AND THOR‏ | iBLOGalot

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#155 Posted by TifaLockhart (21111 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: The battle was far from over. It spilled into issue #2. Superman was not knocked out.

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#156 Posted by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio
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#157 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: nah thors a city buster he solos

Tis true...blue's got nothing on that.

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#158 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is capable of reacting at nanosecond speeds.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

Thor reacts to his hammer as it tries to kill him, deflects Hyperion-who has nanosecond fighting speeds, Silver Surfer's energy blast-the same post cosmic that blasts him across a universe in seconds-jukes Surfer hard, deflects a blitzing Sentry, reacts to Gladiator-another nanosecond fighter-and then even overwhelms him with his speed.

Thor is even shown capable of processing the speeds of Scuttlebutt-moving hundreds of times the speed of light-and Gorr when he got blasted by King Odin lightyears away.

And it's stated he's capable of swinging Mjolnir at FTL speeds, to do that he needs to be able to move his arm FTL speeds as well.

There is no question in my mind that Thor DOES have super speed. In fact, I am opposed to most of comic vine's opinion that Thor has NO super speed at all.

That is complete baloney. I've been a Thor fan since I was a kid. I have some compelling scans as an argument for Thor's super speed.

The problem is that I've never seen anything to legitimately suggest Thor is FTL in reaction speed.

The scans you submitted above don't describe the passage of any appreciable time....or otherwise even suggest a time frame. And to make things worse, I'm not a fan of Superman. But if I'm being completely honest here....Superman is just too fast for Thor.

Additionally, if we are to draw the conclusion that Thor is FTL because he fought characters that are FTL....then a case could be made that Titus and Girder (two slow bricks) are FTL because they have tagged the Flash:

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No Caption Provided

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I must respectfully disagree.

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#159 Posted by EmperorxHadesx420 (2324 posts) - - Show Bio

Out of context scans is hurting my head.Wow the wank and lying is real in here.Supes ftw

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#160 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: The difference is that in many of the scans they're attempting to Blitz Thor and use that super speed against him, but he's able to react to them just fine, the Power Cosmic blast is one thing we can determine is MFTL because he uses the same energy to move across the universe, if he's blasting that energy at you, it should be going reasonably similar speeds. Sentry was trying to blitz him, Gladiator was trying to blitz him and Thor responded, Hyperion was trying to blitz him, there's a difference between fighting someone normally, and reacting to a blitz, which is what most of these scans are and why I feel they are much more compelling than tagging a Speedster, which I could bring up with him grabbing Hermes or tagging and outspeeding Pietro.

I can even bring you a scan where Thor rescues Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and a Black Hole can pull you in in a billionth of a second, that puts Thor's reaction as FTL. And when you honestly take all of those fighting scans, you can't realistically say every single one is PIS, for example, someone told me about Lobo and his ability to tag FTL fighters constantly, that, logically, means Lobo should be able to tag FTL characters even though he's not moving those speeds himself, Doomsday is the same way, I see no reason Thor can't be the same way with all the evidence we see.

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#161 Edited by XiiX (13583 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the Thor arguments convinced me. Now I'm certain Deathstroke is a powerhouse-team buster because he's done it a few times, and said powerhouses have low showings, therefor he should definitely kick the likes of The Flash and Green Lantern's ass. Flawless reasoning ftw.

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#162 Posted by TifaLockhart (21111 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: Do you know anything about Lobo? Quit while you're behind, dude.

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#163 Posted by BlackStarOblivion (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

The difference is that in many of the scans they're attempting to Blitz Thor and use that super speed against him, but he's able to react to them just fine, the Power Cosmic blast is one thing we can determine is MFTL because he uses the same energy to move across the universe, if he's blasting that energy at you, it should be going reasonably similar speeds.

I'm hesitant to award a character FTL reaction speed just based on reacting to laser fire for example. Characters that have previously established themselves with FTL reaction feats? Sure, no probs.

But Thor, whom I've never seen react FTL previously....I'd have to seriously question why he could make such a massive jump in reaction speed. Some street level characters that are considered meta to bullet timer have dodged laser fire.

??

In instances like that, I'd have to see a history of "stand alone" FTL feats for said character to be able to accept reacting to laser fire as legit.

Sentry was trying to blitz him, Gladiator was trying to blitz him and Thor responded, Hyperion was trying to blitz him, there's a difference between fighting someone normally, and reacting to a blitz, which is what most of these scans are and why I feel they are much more compelling than tagging a Speedster, which I could bring up with him grabbing Hermes or tagging and outspeeding Pietro.

Sure. But again it comes down to...why the massive jump in speed from previous showings? Secondly, I think the same criteria can be applied here that we do to dodging laser fire/energy beams....some street level characters have done precisely the same thing, but I don't see those characters as legitimately FTL in reaction speed.

I can even bring you a scan where Thor rescues Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and a Black Hole can pull you in in a billionth of a second, that puts Thor's reaction as FTL. And when you honestly take all of those fighting scans, you can't realistically say every single one is PIS, for example, someone told me about Lobo and his ability to tag FTL fighters constantly, that, logically, means Lobo should be able to tag FTL characters even though he's not moving those speeds himself, Doomsday is the same way, I see no reason Thor can't be the same way with all the evidence we see.

Ah, now.

The thing about black holes.

Mileage may vary. By a wide margin.

Evidently, not all black holes can be considered the same. In fact, I've seen Superman (nu 52 and post Crisis) involved in some peculiar black holes. One black hole that Supes was in wouldn't let him out for sure....but the affects of your typical black hole, that destroys and crushes all matter drawn in...that kind of black hole?....not so much in this particular issue.

At any rate, the one you're talking about, they didn't seem to be that close to. And as I recall, Thor virtually flew in a straight line and snagged Red Hulk from disaster before it really became an issue.

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#164 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

slightly to thor

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#165 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstaroblivion: Now I'm the same way about laser-dodging, but when it comes to combat feats I'm much more lenient since the writers aren't always going to spell out "This attack was moving at [blank] speeds and [blank] dodged it" We've really gotta infer and once you pass bullets, it's hard, so you've gotta be a little more lenient, don't you think?

But the thing about him catching Red Hulk is the fact he was able to perceive Red Hulk and catch him in that billionth of a second he was getting pulled in for, even if he went in a straight line he had to perceive Rulk was getting sucked in and actually react to save him. Even if mileage is different, we can't just assume it's not what a black hole would be, we can't just assume that it's the absolute worst or best possible scenario, just the most likely, and the most likely is how we know black holes to behave. For example, at one point Hulk rose with a star weighing down on him, there's stars that can weigh thousands of times what our star weighs, but also stars that weigh far less, the most reasonable guess is that it weighed around our star's weight, it's not unreasonable to assume, because you can't just wave it off because there's no specific number. Although the one I'm talking about, they were very close to it, yes.

And outside of reaction time, he's been able to perceive Scuttlebutt moving hundreds of times the speed of light-if he couldn't process FTL speeds he wouldn't have been able to see it as he was flying towards it-and when Gorr got blasted lightyears away and his eyes were able to follow the speed and then follow him to the location he landed at. Doing that means he can process things moving many times the speed of light.

Even in his stats, Thor is stated very specifically to swing Mjolnir past the speed of light, in order to do this, he needs to swing his arm past the speed of light, if he can do that, it means he can fight at FTL speeds and hit someone at those speeds, isn't that correct? And would that not give him FTL combat speed?

Personally, I feel like restricting how you can define 'FTL combat speed' is a little unfair to characters like Thor, who don't focus on their speed at all, he's a character who can move those speeds, but rarely does so because his strength and durability are enough. Or maybe he does move at those speeds while swinging Mjolnir, it's just never stated because it doesn't need to be.

Just sort of blocking this out cause it's a little long and ramble-y

While yes, Thor does take a massive jump, Iron Man gets torn apart by street levelers one minute, then the next he's taking hits from She-Hulk and Thor and knocking out Hulk and She-Hulk with his punches. Inconsistencies are just one of the facts of comic books and fiction in general. Look at the Marvel movies, Iron Man can fight Thor, but Enhanced Extremists are able to tear apart his armor piece by piece, he doesn't even have that wide of a margin to go off of, he's only been in 5 movies and already there's a large disconnect of the suit's level of power, durability, etc.... Thor can annihilate the Destroyer Armor, why didn't he just lift up Kurse the same way and hit him with a massive lightning bolt? Why didn't he do it during his fight with Malekith? Why didn't he just create a ton of lighting in the final Avengers battle to blast apart every Ultron Bot there was? Friday states Thor can crack Vibranium, but he doesn't even dent Cap's shield in the first movie. It's so common for characters to vary in strength and speed even in the same movie and comic issue. So the fact that he takes a jump between comic books, isn't that surprising honestly. Can you honestly say you feel Superman is always fighting at max power and speed regardless? That he is beaten fairly and with no PIS any time he's beaten?

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#167 Posted by s1ckb0y (777 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman takes a crap on Thor's face before he can even react.

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#168 Posted by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor gets blitzed. Too slow to react.

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#169 Edited by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: First you said Thor threw Mjolnir across the galaxy even though Odin sent it back, now this?

Even in his stats, Thor is stated very specifically to swing Mjolnir past the speed of light, in order to do this, he needs to swing his arm past the speed of light, if he can do that, it means he can fight at FTL speeds and hit someone at those speeds, isn't that correct? And would that not give him FTL combat speed?

No, it wouldn't.

Throwing a punch isn't the same as reacting to it. I can throw a punch at 32 mph, doesn't mean I can react to something traveling at 32 mph several feet away from my face. You're just stretching it so it fits your needs.

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#170 Edited by ElmoHump (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf said:

@blackstaroblivion: Superman is not too fast for Thor. If Superman is too fast for Thor, then I guess enemies like Doomsday and Lex Luthor move as fast as Flash, right?

Abc logic doesn't work in this situation. I for one has never seen Supes fighting Lex in the New 52 with his actual strength and speed let alone blood lusted. Doomsday would beat Thor in a brawl so it's not surprising that he trades blows with Supes.

@blackstaroblivion: Even in his stats, Thor is stated very specifically to swing Mjolnir past the speed of light, in order to do this, he needs to swing his arm past the speed of light, if he can do that, it means he can fight at FTL speeds and hit someone at those speeds, isn't that correct? And would that not give him FTL combat speed?

False. It's called momentum. Try swinging a hammer for a while and build up speed as fast as you can and hit someone. Not hard right? Now try dodging that same hammer moving at that speed. Two different things.

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#171 Posted by ElmoHump (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is outclassed in every single way.

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#172 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: The battle was far from over. It spilled into issue #2. Superman was not knocked out.

Superman was knocked out and later Thor star fighting WW.

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#173 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf said:

Thor is capable of reacting at nanosecond speeds.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

Thor reacts to his hammer as it tries to kill him, deflects Hyperion-who has nanosecond fighting speeds, Silver Surfer's energy blast-the same post cosmic that blasts him across a universe in seconds-jukes Surfer hard, deflects a blitzing Sentry, reacts to Gladiator-another nanosecond fighter-and then even overwhelms him with his speed.

Thor is even shown capable of processing the speeds of Scuttlebutt-moving hundreds of times the speed of light-and Gorr when he got blasted by King Odin lightyears away.

And it's stated he's capable of swinging Mjolnir at FTL speeds, to do that he needs to be able to move his arm FTL speeds as well.

There is no question in my mind that Thor DOES have super speed. In fact, I am opposed to most of comic vine's opinion that Thor has NO super speed at all.

That is complete baloney. I've been a Thor fan since I was a kid. I have some compelling scans as an argument for Thor's super speed.

The problem is that I've never seen anything to legitimately suggest Thor is FTL in reaction speed.

The scans you submitted above don't describe the passage of any appreciable time....or otherwise even suggest a time frame. And to make things worse, I'm not a fan of Superman. But if I'm being completely honest here....Superman is just too fast for Thor.

Additionally, if we are to draw the conclusion that Thor is FTL because he fought characters that are FTL....then a case could be made that Titus and Girder (two slow bricks) are FTL because they have tagged the Flash:

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No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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I must respectfully disagree.

In all of those scan Thor and his enemies are fighting at FTL speed.

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#174 Posted by Nathaniel_Adam (3716 posts) - - Show Bio

hard to decide I think thor has more potential (with mjolnier) but in this scenario no Idea

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#175 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf said:

@blackstaroblivion: The difference is that in many of the scans they're attempting to Blitz Thor and use that super speed against him, but he's able to react to them just fine, the Power Cosmic blast is one thing we can determine is MFTL because he uses the same energy to move across the universe, if he's blasting that energy at you, it should be going reasonably similar speeds. Sentry was trying to blitz him, Gladiator was trying to blitz him and Thor responded, Hyperion was trying to blitz him, there's a difference between fighting someone normally, and reacting to a blitz, which is what most of these scans are and why I feel they are much more compelling than tagging a Speedster, which I could bring up with him grabbing Hermes or tagging and outspeeding Pietro.

I can even bring you a scan where Thor rescues Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and a Black Hole can pull you in in a billionth of a second, that puts Thor's reaction as FTL. And when you honestly take all of those fighting scans, you can't realistically say every single one is PIS, for example, someone told me about Lobo and his ability to tag FTL fighters constantly, that, logically, means Lobo should be able to tag FTL characters even though he's not moving those speeds himself, Doomsday is the same way, I see no reason Thor can't be the same way with all the evidence we see.

i already post it in the last page so u won't need to. Superman is faster and strong but he can only do it right when he is bloodlusted and want's to obliterate his enemies or in a situation were he is calmed. Ex: Post Crisis against Wonder Woman or New 52 when chasing Jason and his crew or trying to save Louis.

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#176 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001 said:
@xxxcarzellxxx said:

@leo-343: nah thors a city buster he solos

Tis true...blue's got nothing on that.

you guys are trolling right?

@tifalockhart

Lobo is fast true, but not fast as superman, Lobo beat the hell up of superman bc he does know how to fight. Marvel's Hercules is like Lobo (even if Lobo was actually a rip off of Wolvie the same that Deadpool was from deathstroke) in character. Lobo is strong yeah but he fights dirty and that's what give him the upper hand. Now he is actually quite fast but not FTL fast. His speed would be like Thor' and WW's combat speed.

Now to the main point.

Superman vs Thor

Power Lifting: Superman

Striking Power: Thor

Speed: Superman

Reaction Timing: Draw

Fighting Skills: Thor

Better Use of his powers: this one is depending of the situation but most of the time Thor.

Energy Manipulation: Thor

Durability: Thor

Intelligence and Strategy in Combat: Thor most of the time since it takes a bloodlusted Superman to fight smart using all of his powers and it is effecty only most of the time.

3579196-0469811293-eyeba.jpg (1029×1600)

3419273-hemanvssuperman.jpg (1312×1009)

http://31.media.tumblr.com/11413d479b340143744457e9ccac73e2/tumblr_mvah9ogivv1r7hjkqo1_500...

16860749_6069466_zps63a8561b.jpg (228×350)

Easily Increasing his Powers: Draw, due to Superman can go to the sun and increase his power and Thor due to the Warrior's Madness (x10) and Odinforce (but i don't think it can be used in here, right?)

Willing to Kill: Thor.

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#177 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

Striking speed : Draw.

Recovery time : Draw.

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#178 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

Striking speed : Draw.

Recovery time : Draw.

Striking speed would be Superman actually.

Recovery Time: Draw going more for to Thor's balance.

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#179 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:

@mrdevil:

Striking speed : Draw.

Recovery time : Draw.

Striking speed would be Superman actually.

Recovery Time: Draw going more for to Thor's balance.

If that's the case, the margin is very thin imo.

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#180 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@realitywarper said:
@mrdevil said:
@realitywarper said:

@mrdevil:

Striking speed : Draw.

Recovery time : Draw.

Striking speed would be Superman actually.

Recovery Time: Draw going more for to Thor's balance.

If that's the case, the margin is very thin imo.

They are actually very close to one another but most people just see Superman as a protector of earth and Thor as a dumb idiot that ones to fight.

Also remember that Thor has the upper hand due to Supy's vulnerability to magic.

Streaming Media/File Share site usage blocked - check what people say about Supes and Thor.

Whom would win between Thor vs Superman? - Battles - Comic Vine

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#181 Posted by xXxcarzellxXx (3918 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: have you joy been on comic vine for the last week ?

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#182 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio
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#183 Posted by xXxcarzellxXx (3918 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: I meant not ... But if you have then you'd know why we said that

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#184 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio
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#185 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

So majority of the vine claims Thor can beat Hyperion and glads (who have comparable if not superior speed to supes and WAY higher striking feats), but loses because of a planet shaking blitz? Utterly ridiculous at how wishy-washy the supes fanbase is.

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#186 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

So majority of the vine claims Thor can beat Hyperion and glads (who have comparable if not superior speed to supes and WAY higher striking feats), but loses because of a planet shaking blitz? Utterly ridiculous at how wishy-washy the supes fanbase is.

misc-you-dont-say-l.png (1500×1113)

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#187 Posted by hatemalingsia (15494 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

You can post/insert pictures by clicking the "lmg" button on the top toolbar when you are writing your comment.

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#188 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil:

You can post/insert pictures by clicking the "lmg" button on the top toolbar when you are writing your comment.

i know but were i am it doesn't let me do it, i can't post Videos or Img.

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#189 Posted by Newblood2333 (1475 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor takes this.

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#190 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@hatemalingsia: is this thread Pre Crisis included or Post Crisis/New 52?

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#191 Posted by jagernutt (16346 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern:

In my fair minded unbiased opinion the fight should be identical to cannon Thor fighting cannon Glads or Sentry.

That's exactly how a fight with Superman should play out.

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#192 Posted by hatemalingsia (15494 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: By Pre 52, I only meant Post-Crisis. So no Pre-Crisis.

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#193 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: it'll glitch every now and then, trying it again a few times will usually do the trick.

@jagernutt: I agree, but a hit from mjolnir should be fatal or at the very least stun him for a while. I mean just look at what Diana's tiara did to supes and it only grazed him. Though glads did give Thor quite a bit of trouble before I could see supes doing the same IF he can take away the hammer.

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#194 Posted by hatemalingsia (15494 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Though I think Pre-Crisis Superman could be amusing, I just don't know an interesting opponent for him.

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#195 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Though I think Pre-Crisis Superman could be amusing, I just don't know an interesting opponent for him.

True be said that guy's powers were ridiculous, and could only be surpassed by reality wallpers.

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#196 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: it'll glitch every now and then, trying it again a few times will usually do the trick.

Back to topic on hand, OP specifically states both are using all of their ability, he traps supes in a magic bubble like he did to hyperion. End of battle.

Nope still not working but is this computer cause it is limited access.

could be, he can also teleport him to the realm of hela and i don't think Supes would survive Wind Of One Thousands Worlds

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#197 Posted by newecho (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf said:

The difference is that in many of the scans they're attempting to Blitz Thor and use that super speed against him, but he's able to react to them just fine, the Power Cosmic blast is one thing we can determine is MFTL because he uses the same energy to move across the universe, if he's blasting that energy at you, it should be going reasonably similar speeds.

I'm hesitant to award a character FTL reaction speed just based on reacting to laser fire for example. Characters that have previously established themselves with FTL reaction feats? Sure, no probs.

But Thor, whom I've never seen react FTL previously....I'd have to seriously question why he could make such a massive jump in reaction speed. Some street level characters that are considered meta to bullet timer have dodged laser fire.

??

In instances like that, I'd have to see a history of "stand alone" FTL feats for said character to be able to accept reacting to laser fire as legit.

Sentry was trying to blitz him, Gladiator was trying to blitz him and Thor responded, Hyperion was trying to blitz him, there's a difference between fighting someone normally, and reacting to a blitz, which is what most of these scans are and why I feel they are much more compelling than tagging a Speedster, which I could bring up with him grabbing Hermes or tagging and outspeeding Pietro.

Sure. But again it comes down to...why the massive jump in speed from previous showings? Secondly, I think the same criteria can be applied here that we do to dodging laser fire/energy beams....some street level characters have done precisely the same thing, but I don't see those characters as legitimately FTL in reaction speed.

I can even bring you a scan where Thor rescues Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and a Black Hole can pull you in in a billionth of a second, that puts Thor's reaction as FTL. And when you honestly take all of those fighting scans, you can't realistically say every single one is PIS, for example, someone told me about Lobo and his ability to tag FTL fighters constantly, that, logically, means Lobo should be able to tag FTL characters even though he's not moving those speeds himself, Doomsday is the same way, I see no reason Thor can't be the same way with all the evidence we see.

Ah, now.

The thing about black holes.

Mileage may vary. By a wide margin.

Evidently, not all black holes can be considered the same. In fact, I've seen Superman (nu 52 and post Crisis) involved in some peculiar black holes. One black hole that Supes was in wouldn't let him out for sure....but the affects of your typical black hole, that destroys and crushes all matter drawn in...that kind of black hole?....not so much in this particular issue.

At any rate, the one you're talking about, they didn't seem to be that close to. And as I recall, Thor virtually flew in a straight line and snagged Red Hulk from disaster before it really became an issue.

Why does thor have jumps in speed and his combat speed so inconsistent? answer truly is so he can fight every popular character at that time since he is so popular..If thor fights wolverine then it sells books and if he fights surfer, it again sells books. He has more than enough showings to prove that he can react to characters whom are as fast as supes, but people tend to choose to only pay attention to his lower showings and their minds are never going to be changed. You either believe he can or you believe he can't.. The thing about this particular fight is bfr is allowed,, so how does supes not get bfr'd? how does supes not eventually get wore down with magical attacks? and what does he do about the God Blast?

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#198 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio
@newecho said:
@blackstaroblivion said:
@conner_wolf said:

The difference is that in many of the scans they're attempting to Blitz Thor and use that super speed against him, but he's able to react to them just fine, the Power Cosmic blast is one thing we can determine is MFTL because he uses the same energy to move across the universe, if he's blasting that energy at you, it should be going reasonably similar speeds.

I'm hesitant to award a character FTL reaction speed just based on reacting to laser fire for example. Characters that have previously established themselves with FTL reaction feats? Sure, no probs.

But Thor, whom I've never seen react FTL previously....I'd have to seriously question why he could make such a massive jump in reaction speed. Some street level characters that are considered meta to bullet timer have dodged laser fire.

??

In instances like that, I'd have to see a history of "stand alone" FTL feats for said character to be able to accept reacting to laser fire as legit.

Sentry was trying to blitz him, Gladiator was trying to blitz him and Thor responded, Hyperion was trying to blitz him, there's a difference between fighting someone normally, and reacting to a blitz, which is what most of these scans are and why I feel they are much more compelling than tagging a Speedster, which I could bring up with him grabbing Hermes or tagging and outspeeding Pietro.

Sure. But again it comes down to...why the massive jump in speed from previous showings? Secondly, I think the same criteria can be applied here that we do to dodging laser fire/energy beams....some street level characters have done precisely the same thing, but I don't see those characters as legitimately FTL in reaction speed.

I can even bring you a scan where Thor rescues Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and a Black Hole can pull you in in a billionth of a second, that puts Thor's reaction as FTL. And when you honestly take all of those fighting scans, you can't realistically say every single one is PIS, for example, someone told me about Lobo and his ability to tag FTL fighters constantly, that, logically, means Lobo should be able to tag FTL characters even though he's not moving those speeds himself, Doomsday is the same way, I see no reason Thor can't be the same way with all the evidence we see.

Ah, now.

The thing about black holes.

Mileage may vary. By a wide margin.

Evidently, not all black holes can be considered the same. In fact, I've seen Superman (nu 52 and post Crisis) involved in some peculiar black holes. One black hole that Supes was in wouldn't let him out for sure....but the affects of your typical black hole, that destroys and crushes all matter drawn in...that kind of black hole?....not so much in this particular issue.

At any rate, the one you're talking about, they didn't seem to be that close to. And as I recall, Thor virtually flew in a straight line and snagged Red Hulk from disaster before it really became an issue.

Why does thor have jumps in speed and his combat speed so inconsistent? answer truly is so he can fight every popular character at that time since he is so popular..If thor fights wolverine then it sells books and if he fights surfer, it again sells books. He has more than enough showings to prove that he can react to characters whom are as fast as supes, but people tend to choose to only pay attention to his lower showings and their minds are never going to be changed. You either believe he can or you believe he can't.. The thing about this particular fight is bfr is allowed,, so how does supes not get bfr'd? how does supes not eventually get wore down with magical attacks? and what does he do about the God Blast?

So their favorite character wins, people tend to only see the bad thing in the character they are fighting, like when Wolverine was "faster" than Thor, or when Batman make "bleed" Superman with a punch in the face.

When usually neither of those case should have been able to happen.

Ex. of it: Shazam punch superman so hard that send him flying and yet he isn't bleeding.

3697109-9322944986-36511.jpg (1249×1920)

Another Ex: Thor is fighting the enchanters and react to a FTL Mjolnirg while also punching the enemies controlling it in Nanoseconds.

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or more resently in the case of Thor vs DS Sentry

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4164560-5614810254-34604.jpg (1920×2951)

4229186-uncanny+avengers+011-017.jpg (1920×2951) - Superman can't do something like this.

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#199 Posted by newecho (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: When bats made supes bleed, was he not jokerized? and bats was using red sun to depower supes too.. I am reading End Game this week,, but I have heard that is the "explanation" of how he made supes bleed... The wolverine vs thor book was god awful too...

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#200 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:

@mrdevil: When bats made supes bleed, was he not jokerized? and bats was using red sun to depower supes too.. I am reading End Game this week,, but I have heard that is the "explanation" of how he made supes bleed... The wolverine vs thor book was god awful too...

08632_batsuperduck_122_627lo.jpg (453×700)

not just that people sometimes forget that a bloodlusted Superman is not always effective as most of them things.

2645636-superman_vs_wonder_woman.jpg (1228×1920)

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Also Jokerized or not it doesn't put him stronger than Shazam.