Avatar image for ghostravage
#101 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: As expected, Vice President of Publishing's word is simply discarded because it doesn't fit your blatant bias towards Thor. The fact Thor can tag fast opponents is because they let themselves get tagged by not using their speed, which coincidentally most of the time are Silver Surfer who is by far the worst speedster you can find given how often he forgets he can move at insane speed; Sentry, which suffers from the same fact and Gladiator, which then again is affected by his character and lack of speed usage... It is not because Thor is fast, which is contradicted by Marvel's Editorial Group, several instances and the vision of several writers, that of course not taking into account Silver Surfer, Sentry and Gladiator have actually blitzed Thor, even more so Gladiator who has blitzed him so fast he was helpless . I'll drop the debate with you as well, it's so unpractical i don't find it any rewarding anymore...

Avatar image for rickythanos
#102 Posted by rickythanos (1570 posts) - - Show Bio

@rickythanos: Here Mjolnir travels across a galaxy in about three seconds

No Caption Provided

Mjolnir is capable of opening a portal anywhere, even if it's not of it's own free well, Thor can just command Mjolnir to do it.

No Caption Provided

And yes without Mjolnir he can, he swings Mjolnir with his arm, correct? Ergo, he's moving his arm at the speed he is swinging Mjolnir, and if he swings Mjolnir FTL-which is confirmed-the his arm is swinging FTL as well, and if Superman's grabbing Thor, I think that's a good time for Thor to just give Superman a bear hug, crush him, then summon a magic lightning bolt to slam right into the Man of Steel. Thor is not just relying on physicals here.

And Thor can also summon solar winds that carry him across galaxies so fast that they pass by in a blur.

Yeah, that first pic is moving toward a stationary thor, not a FTL travelling superman.

That second scan shows the portal being opened with thor *wielding* it. It doesn't really account for when Mjonir is not in Thors hand. All I've ever seen Mjolnir do while NOT in thors hand is move toward thor.

How powerful is Thor without mjolnir?

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#103 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: He's blitzed Superman, Green Lantern, dodged oncoming missiles at near light speed, dismantled a roomful of alien robots in less than a panel, and reacted faster than Deadman could think.

Also, nice out of context scan.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#104 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Oh god... Dude, Brevoort's words have been the only and SOLE thing that has kept things like Primary Adamantium indestructible and he's been behind most of Marvel's retcons in modern days. The actual opinion whose relevancy is almost nonexistent is the one of a grumpy Thor fan who can't accept and see facts even if they explode in front of his forehead. As i said, i'm done here.

Avatar image for deaditegonzo
#105 Posted by deaditegonzo (4168 posts) - - Show Bio

Like almost every version of this fight (except for spite match-ups), Superman wins.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#106 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: It's no use. You NEED to be ignorant to debate for Thor, or at least that's what current Thor debaters believe.

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#107 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: And were these in post-crisis continuity, or pre-crisis continuity?

@rickythanos: Except it crossed the Galaxy in a couple seconds, to do that, it had to be going trillions of times the speed of light.

Thor commands Mjolnir from anywhere he is, it need not be in his hand for him to command it.

Now, are you asking when he is unworthy, or when it's just not in his hand? The answer to both of those are, his physical state and abilities do not change, only his extra abilities and ability to fly, although he could still fly with the help of the winds like Storm does.

@ghostravage:He's also said Odin>Phoenix Force.

No it's not, its because Thor is fast, on panel evidence trumps anything someone who didn't even write the comic says. Hell, Gladiator was trying to blitz Thor, so was Sentry, Silver Surfer sent his blast at max speeds, don't you try to say they let themselves get hit, that's just plain stupid.

You're right, it's impractical to argue with someone who won't except evidence staring him in the fact. It's honestly sad to see every Superman fan like you is just going to shout to the heavens until the end of time that Thor is slow no matter how much happens otherwise

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#108 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: Post. Pre-Crisis Lobo was an entirely different species and much weaker.

Avatar image for jayc1324
#109 Edited by jayc1324 (26422 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Adamantium has nothing to do with Thor. His words don't change what happen in comics life I said. You just don't like some Thor fans but that doesn't change what has happened in comics. Brevoorts said something he imagined. These are fictional characters and whatever the writer says is true, unless it is specifically retconned. The word of someone who isn't a writer, that doesn't discredit what Thor has done, cannot be used to say he is slow.

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#110 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: Then look at any of the other scans I listed up there, giant robots, random insects, and other enemies who clearly aren't moving FTL tag Superman ALL THE TIME. So if Thor not tagging enemies who aren't FTL should be considered, then so should Superman getting hit by non-FTL enemies. That is even, fair, and entirely reasonable the only way you'd reject this notion is if you are bias against Thor and don't want to apply the same rules as you do to Marvel, to DC

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#111 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: There's a difference between being tagged and being blitzed. I can only assume this non-sequitur post is desperation. If Lobo is slow, Thor is a snail. Yeah I said it.

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#112 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: And Thor has reacted to blitzes form FTL characters and nanosecond fighters, so he shouldn't be blitzed at all by Superman.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#113 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for conner_wolf
#114 Edited by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ghostravage
#115 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: SEE! This is f*cking hilarious! Trolling aside, i'm actually starting to believe you MUST have double standards to argue for Thor, i mean, it's like you people don't even notice how you keep changing your points just to fit something that has no way to be supported properly.

No it's not, its because Thor is fast, on panel evidence trumps anything someone who didn't even write the comic says. Hell, Gladiator was trying to blitz Thor, so was Sentry, Silver Surfer sent his blast at max speeds, don't you try to say they let themselves get hit, that's just plain stupid.

You're right, it's impractical to argue with someone who won't except evidence staring him in the fact. It's honestly sad to see every Superman fan like you is just going to shout to the heavens until the end of time that Thor is slow no matter how much happens otherwise

So you're saying on-panel evidence trumps anything yet you f*cking neglect the fact Thor has stated twice a street leveler is faster than him, street levelers have stated Thor is slow, and he's been flat out blitzed by one who couldn't even tag Spider-Man? I can't fathom what's your thought process but i had to deal with the same kind of approach a few days ago. I cannot address points like this and i would suggest you to simply stop debating each other. Let's just walk away.

The fact Thor's slowness has on-panel evidence, statements by both him and street levelers, consistency and Marvel's Editorial Group words on the subject means there's a LOT more proof to suggest he's slow than the other way around. Considering the ONLY argument you Thor fans have to support his speed is the fact he has tagged people that in OTHER instances have gone incredibly fast while failing to prove they were actually using their speed during the instance, while at the same time claiming Superman doesn't use his speed as if he was the ONLY and SOLE speeding powerhouse who doesn't use his speed (of course this is wrong because he actually uses his speed most of the time). There are several instance to prove Gladiator, Sentry, Silver Surfer, f*cking throw Spider-Man there too for all i care, to suffice their super human speed whereas Thor has the same quantity of feats to support his under average combat speed. Look, i won't write any more text walls unless i'm 100% sure i won't be arguing against density and considering i've seen a fair share of your posts, let alone your approach to the subject being inexplicably similar to the nuisance i had to deal before actually makes me think is better to let this one pass. Seriously, i'm done, feel free to continue, just not with me.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#116 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for thenaughtytitan
#117 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

HAHAHHAAHHAHAHA, conner being conner.

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#118 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: So you suggest we just take all his lowest end feats and that's all we should use? Sure, why the hell not, go for it man, believe whatever you want, I've shown you Thor being fast, and all you can respond with is "THOR IS THOR, THOR IS SLOW, THOR IS SLOW, HE'S SO SLOW, SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW" Then how about Thor just opens a portal and BFRs him like he did Wasp, GG.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#119 Edited by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for conner_wolf
#120 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: Yeah no scans and total denial of what happens on-panel sure proves a lot.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#121 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for leo-343
#122 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: So you suggest we just take all his lowest end feats and that's all we should use? Sure, why the hell not, go for it man, believe whatever you want, I've shown you Thor being fast, and all you can respond with is "THOR IS THOR, THOR IS SLOW, THOR IS SLOW, HE'S SO SLOW, SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW" Then how about Thor just opens a portal and BFRs him like he did Wasp, GG.

I think you're missing the point entirely, that's not what he's suggesting at all. We should take into account consistency. I think this is the crux of the argument.

The fact Thor's slowness has on-panel evidence, statements by both him and street levelers, consistency and Marvel's Editorial Group words on the subject means there's a LOT more proof to suggest he's slow than the other way around.

Avatar image for cgoodness
#123 Posted by Cream_God (15519 posts) - - Show Bio

My cancer now has AIDs

Avatar image for mrdevil
#124 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@rickythanos said:
@conner_wolf said:

@rickythanos: Here Mjolnir travels across a galaxy in about three seconds

No Caption Provided

Mjolnir is capable of opening a portal anywhere, even if it's not of it's own free well, Thor can just command Mjolnir to do it.

No Caption Provided

And yes without Mjolnir he can, he swings Mjolnir with his arm, correct? Ergo, he's moving his arm at the speed he is swinging Mjolnir, and if he swings Mjolnir FTL-which is confirmed-the his arm is swinging FTL as well, and if Superman's grabbing Thor, I think that's a good time for Thor to just give Superman a bear hug, crush him, then summon a magic lightning bolt to slam right into the Man of Steel. Thor is not just relying on physicals here.

And Thor can also summon solar winds that carry him across galaxies so fast that they pass by in a blur.

Yeah, that first pic is moving toward a stationary thor, not a FTL travelling superman.

That second scan shows the portal being opened with thor *wielding* it. It doesn't really account for when Mjonir is not in Thors hand. All I've ever seen Mjolnir do while NOT in thors hand is move toward thor.

How powerful is Thor without mjolnir?

Thor didn't throw Mjolnirg to himself he throw it to the end of the galaxy and it come back in less than 60 sec. FTL it took minutes to superman to travel from earth to the sun.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#125 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: out of context scan is out of context.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#126 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: Are you doubting the credibility of what i'm stating because i wouldn't take the bother to address an enormous amount of misused scans when you can see a recent CaV where i actually debated properly? It's not like i'm lying and my take on the subject has been sufficiently logical for you to have the decency to at least call it a wrap instead of doubting what i'm stating. Anyone who has debated me here could confirm you that if i engage you, i'll hit with everything i have without the sligthest of out of context evidence but given you're a scan dumper and seemingly impervious to other's points of view without showing anything new nor innovating already debunked and overused arguments , already seals the deal to me. I do not consider these types of debates rewarding but exhausting. Anyways...

@ghostravage: So you suggest we just take all his lowest end feats and that's all we should use? Sure, why the hell not, go for it man, believe whatever you want, I've shown you Thor being fast, and all you can respond with is "THOR IS THOR, THOR IS SLOW, THOR IS SLOW, HE'S SO SLOW, SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW" Then how about Thor just opens a portal and BFRs him like he did Wasp, GG.

No... I suggest you take your scans and address them properly instead of overblowing Thor's capabilities while discarding a serious amount of evidence which proves his slowness in combat. What about showing the characters Thor has consistently kept up with using their speed against Thor, let alone in intelligent ways like Superman has done several times, like against Doomsday Rex, Mongul Jr, Tokai, Imperiex to mention a few, there's like 15-16 more by my count and they would suffice for a focused and properly used Superman, you know, like the vine's rules state.

Bye.

Avatar image for mrdevil
#127 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf: SEE! This is f*cking hilarious! Trolling aside, i'm actually starting to believe you MUST have double standards to argue for Thor, i mean, it's like you people don't even notice how you keep changing your points just to fit something that has no way to be supported properly.

No it's not, its because Thor is fast, on panel evidence trumps anything someone who didn't even write the comic says. Hell, Gladiator was trying to blitz Thor, so was Sentry, Silver Surfer sent his blast at max speeds, don't you try to say they let themselves get hit, that's just plain stupid.

You're right, it's impractical to argue with someone who won't except evidence staring him in the fact. It's honestly sad to see every Superman fan like you is just going to shout to the heavens until the end of time that Thor is slow no matter how much happens otherwise

So you're saying on-panel evidence trumps anything yet you f*cking neglect the fact Thor has stated twice a street leveler is faster than him, street levelers have stated Thor is slow, and he's been flat out blitzed by one who couldn't even tag Spider-Man? I can't fathom what's your thought process but i had to deal with the same kind of approach a few days ago. I cannot address points like this and i would suggest you to simply stop debating each other. Let's just walk away.

The fact Thor's slowness has on-panel evidence, statements by both him and street levelers, consistency and Marvel's Editorial Group words on the subject means there's a LOT more proof to suggest he's slow than the other way around. Considering the ONLY argument you Thor fans have to support his speed is the fact he has tagged people that in OTHER instances have gone incredibly fast while failing to prove they were actually using their speed during the instance, while at the same time claiming Superman doesn't use his speed as if he was the ONLY and SOLE speeding powerhouse who doesn't use his speed (of course this is wrong because he actually uses his speed most of the time). There are several instance to prove Gladiator, Sentry, Silver Surfer, f*cking throw Spider-Man there too for all i care, to suffice their super human speed whereas Thor has the same quantity of feats to support his under average combat speed. Look, i won't write any more text walls unless i'm 100% sure i won't be arguing against density and considering i've seen a fair share of your posts, let alone your approach to the subject being inexplicably similar to the nuisance i had to deal before actually makes me think is better to let this one pass. Seriously, i'm done, feel free to continue, just not with me.

Sorry but Superman has been defeated times to times by street lever like batman. Even if he holds back Thor always end up winning against those kind of fights and most of the time he is trying to hold them not kill them.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Even with the likes of Hulk or Iron Man he has always hold back or he would kill them.

Avatar image for mrdevil
#128 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mysticmedivh
#129 Posted by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

@conner_wolf said:

@rickythanos: Here Mjolnir travels across a galaxy in about three seconds

No Caption Provided

Mjolnir is capable of opening a portal anywhere, even if it's not of it's own free well, Thor can just command Mjolnir to do it.

Odin sent Mjolnir back. It didn't cross the galaxy.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#130 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: The one in which Thor allegedly throws his hammer to the other side of the Galaxy.

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#131 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Every. Character. In. Fiction. Is. Inconsistent. That is a fact of fiction and it always has been.

And why should we just ignore the fact he tangles with incredibly fast beings on a daily basis? The dude has punked Hermes on multiple occasions, beaten Quicksilver-faster than anyone that people say blitzed Thor. He's teleported a entire group of people before they could even process what was going on, he's blitzed Sentinels, Bullrushed Galactus twice, reacted to Warlock's speed, reacted at microsecond speeds, reacted to Zefra easily, he reacts to Rulk falling into a black hole, reacted to a telepathic blast from Phoenix Force Rachel, he blitzed Sentry, reacted to a crowbar inches from his head, and Bor's axe, etc.... HIS VERY ABILITY TO SWING MJOLNIR AT FTL SPEEDS IS AN ORIGINAL PART OF WHAT THE CHARACTER DOES, but no, here on ComicVine, the only time it ever matters is when Thor does something that goes against all of this,

Arguing for consistency is stupid because then it just becomes a sh*t-throwing contest of who can come up with a worse and more terrible feats for their opponent. It's ridiculous and it's what I came on ComicVine to get away from on YouTube, but no, everyone here does the same thing. Hell, even in his fight with Wolverine he got cut off before he finished his sentence, he could've said anything before he got interrupted, thought, remember, realized, etc....

Avatar image for conner_wolf
#132 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6378 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: I'm doubting your credibility because you don't acknowledge anything Thor can do, that's just showing intense amounts of bias. I saw your CAV, you showed low-end Thor feats, your opponent showed low-end Superman feats and you got all uppity, just like any other time someone actually tries to give Superman fans a taste of their own medicine.

Avatar image for lemonsauce
#133 Posted by lemonsauce (997 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh man this debate will go on and on for decades. The bottom line is Superman's only advantage is speed, Thor has the edge in every other category.

Avatar image for mrdevil
#134 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: The one in which Thor allegedly throws his hammer to the other side of the Galaxy.

what do you mean, he says he throws Mjolnirg to the other side of the galaxy, and he says i need be separated to the hammer only sixty seconds. If he was 60 secs separed from Mjolnirg he would have changed back and in the times he end thinking all that, the hammer was coming back to his hand, what do you mean with "the scan is out of context"?

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#135 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for tifalockhart
#136 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: You do know what happens on the very next page, right?

Avatar image for mrdevil
#137 Edited by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart said:

@mrdevil: You do know what happens on the very next page, right?

please en-light me, Also or even better allow me

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#138 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: If you've truly read the comic, I shouldn't have to enlighten you. Do you or do you not know what happens next?

Avatar image for mrdevil
#139 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: If you've truly read the comic, I shouldn't have to enlighten you. Do you or do you not know what happens next?

is sacarms and also i was looking for the next page.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#140 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Thanks for the scans that debunk the feat.

Avatar image for mrdevil
#141 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Thanks for the scans that debunk the feat.

it didn't debunked anything since the hammer still went 1 min and what 2, or 3 sec? How much does Superman travels from earth to the sun and back?

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#142 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: That he reverted is not the point. The context is that Thor wanted to commit suicide and Odin wouldn't let him.

And Superman has been clocked at 20c for what it's worth. Earth to Saturn in four minutes.

Avatar image for mrdevil
#143 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: That he reverted is not the point. The context is that Thor wanted to commit suicide and Odin wouldn't let him.

And Superman has been clocked at 20c for what it's worth. Earth to Saturn in four minutes.

True in that but the hammer still go to the end of the galaxy and back.

also what is 20c? Celsius?

Avatar image for mysticmedivh
#144 Posted by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Odin sent the hammer back before it crossed the galaxy.

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#145 Posted by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: According to Thor. He also said it would take some time to come back. Just because a character states something does not make it true.

20c is 20 times light speed.

Avatar image for sy8000
#146 Edited by Sy8000 (35186 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman blitzes

Avatar image for mrdevil
#147 Posted by MrDevil (3092 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Odin sent the hammer back before it crossed the galaxy.

it doesn't say that in there

@mrdevil: According to Thor. He also said it would take some time to come back. Just because a character states something does not make it true.

20c is 20 times light speed.

That could be the same for what Thor says in the fight with Wolvie

Scan?

Avatar image for tifalockhart
#148 Edited by TifaLockhart (21107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: At the very least, and this is ignoring the context of the story, Thor did not throw his hammer to the end of the galaxy and back in less than sixty seconds.

EDIT: The 20c instance is when Superman heard Luthor was elected President.

Avatar image for mysticmedivh
#149 Posted by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: New 52 has flown at least 700 times faster than light, Post-Crisis even 2,629,804 times.

Avatar image for theonewhoknows
#150 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdevil: Posting only when Thor got in a virtual sucker punch like blow doesn't change the fact that at the conclusion of their final battle, Superman was standing over the strewn, prone, utterly defeated carcass of Thor. And Thor CLAIMING that he has the Man Of Steel's measure does not mean a thing to the ACTUAL FACT that Kal DECISIVELY defeated the thunder god.

NOTHING can change the fact that in a battle with Thor---SUPERMAN WINS.