Superman vs Eobard Thawne pre 52

Who wins

No B.F.R., erasing from existence, flight, kryptonite, red solar, magic

1 minute prep,

inb4speedsterwank

Superman is not tagging him.

Thawne is not wanked or overrated. And neither are Barry, Jay, Max, Bart, Jesse... The only speedsters that are actually overrated are Wally West, Hunter Zolomon and the ones that appear in the CW shows (maybe Godpseed as well). So there is that.

Superman gets the living crap blitzed out of him. His best bet is flying REALLY high and stay moving while spamming AOE attacks

Superman already got blitzed by him in Pre-New 52. He would need prep to win.

Can't thawne simulate flight?

Thawne blitzes kal's head off

any feats on Professor Zoom that shows he can actually hurt Superman?

@itouchedtheboat: @nefarious: @decaf_wizard: @krleavenger: Clark already tagged Eobard while he blitzing his team,don't underestimate Clark's speed.

For the battle if Thawne is jobbing and gets tagged like this,Clark takes his head off,

But even without erasing from existence(my favorite move of Eobard) , If he's not jobbing

Eobard wins in a picosecond

@dorukesin1:

well Clark already tagged Eobard while he blitzing his team,so don't underestimate Clark's speed.

That is from Time Masters: Vanishing Point #5. You are missing some context there. Right after Clark tagged him, Thawne said nobody is as fast as he is when you think about it, after he complimented Clark's speed and then correcting himself in the same sentence.

And I am pretty skeptical with the use of that scan because we don't know how fast Thawne was moving. In my opinion, not as nearly as fast as he could considering the fact that Thawne was casually blitzing Rip Hunter, Booster Gold and Clark and Hal Jordan (Hal has multiple light speed-faster than light combat and reaction time speed feats)next issue before a single one of them could react and then moving so fast that nobody can tag him Time Masters: Vanishing Point #6

Gallery

For the battle if Thawne is jobbing and gets tagged like this,Clark takes his head off,

If Clark tags him, Thawne can vibrate through him.

@dorukesin1: still no feat of him hurting Superman lvl beings.

selling punches =/= getting hurt

Not entirely sure.

@itouchedtheboat: Superman can't tag Thawne and he can't counter Thawne's ability to vibrate/phase through him. As for your question about Thawne not being able to hurt Superman, I don't think he can hurt him with few punches, but he had no problem destroying Hal's constructs, so if he consistently beats him up, he can eventually KO him. Hal's constructs already tanked blows from Superman level beings and above.

Superman.

One good opening and Thawne gets KO'ed, and we all know how Thawne (in character) likes to be all villain-ish and toy with his opponents.

Correct me if I am wrong. Cant he just phase through molecules? If so then whats stopping him from just japping a hand into supes brain?

@krleavenger: I know the issue,I didn't say Clark is as fast as Eobard,Eobard would see him like a statue. But still he gets tagged in the issue, maybe he was moving at mach 1, maybe at lightspeed we can't know that but he was blitzing and he get tagged then he made a compliment.

speedsters doesn't always move faster than a nanosecond and Pre-52 Superman have nanosecond(at peak picoseconds) reaction speed.Which means jobbing Eobard is beatable.

but like I said if he's not jobbing ,he can take Clark's brain out of his head before even he realize

What's stopping him? Nothing to be honest.

Thawne already tanked blows and attacks from High Tiers and Heralds and he wasn't KO'd. I doubt Clark will be able to one shot him, especially because he can't put a lot of effort into a single punch because he has to move quickly in order to tag Thawne. While it is clear than Thawne was toying with his opponents from time to time, there are also a lot of instances where he was just going for the kill. Besides, when Barry was possessed by Parallax, he was fighting Hal Jordan. Hal has FTL reflexes and Barry/Parallax was toying with him. That did not stop him from dodging Hal's attacks and beating him up like a ragdoll.

Eobard. Give Superman flight at least.

my man eobard wins

what point does posting this serve?

A point.

@itouchedtheboat:

Superman tagged him in the scan you provided lol.

No I didn't. It was posted by dorukesin1. I posted scans of Thawne claiming how regardless of Superman being fast, nobody is as fast as Thawne. I also posted scans of Thawne blitzing Superman and Hal Jordan. Hal also has FTL speed reflexes and Thawne was fast enough to blitz him and Clark and neither of them could react.

I guess he [professor Zoom] can do that, but he doesn't usually do stuff like that when fighting.

Because most of the time he didn't want to kill his opponent at the time they were fighting because of the context of the story? Actually, when he was ready to kill Wally West, he was going to use that power. He just wasn't able to.

Hal's and other Lantern's constructs aren't consistent with their durability. All because he destroyed Hal's construct and Superman didn't (also its very likely Superman was pulling his punches) doesn't mean he's a contender, it only means Hal wasn't using equal effort in both instances. Superman one-shot John Stewarts constructs (which were said to be stronger than Hal's I think)

I never said Superman failed to break Hal's constructs. I said Superman-level beings failed to break his constructs just like people stronger than Superman failed. And they are consistent enough to be put on that level. While Hal's constructs are not as durable as Superman, they have durability of a High Tier so the fact that Thawne could damage them means he can damage Superman.

and the punch was so fast that Wally was only fast enough to see, but not fast enough to do anything about it.

You are using one instance that is totally inconsistent. Not Superman smashing John's construct. That's fine. I'm talking about Wally being fast enough to see but not do anything. I can show you multiple showing between both Superman and the Flash that prove that Superman is a snail compared to the Flash. Or if you want, I can show you Flashes own feats to prove his massive superiority to Clark speed wise.

However I need to see both instances you're referring to so I can be sure.

What instances are you talking about? Thawne breaking Hal's constructs? I can show them to you if you want. However I think the better question would be, how is Clark gonna counter Thawne's speed and his ability to vibrate his brain out? In truth, Thawne doesn't have to hurt Clark. He has other more effective means to put him down.

Also, Superman's speed depends on himself. he's blitzed an Imperiex probe, that the combined force of the Justice League's powerhouses couldn't take (which including Wally West and Kyle Rayner). He can accelerate his perception to attosecond level (as said by the writer) personally I don't believe it's at attosecond level but claiming he needs concentration to speed his perception makes more sense than anything else, and it can prove as a helpful tool in this fight.

He was blitzing it. Not sure why that matters. Superman can blitz Thanos as well. It does not change the fact that Thanos would stomp him. And Thawne is faster than Superman so it doesn't matter anyway. No, Clark can't accelerate his perception to attosecond level. He can however accelerate his perception to levels high enough to register Flashes movements. However, that shows Clark's impressive perception and brain functions. When it comes to raw speed and reflexes, he is still a snail compared to Barry, Wally, Thawne, Savitar...

Superman puts up a good maybe awesome fight..but loses

Superman gets blitzed

Can`t Superman vibrate so that he would not get his heart phased out? Plus, Superman has feats to match Eobard`s speed. Not saying he wins, but just some interesting facts

@itouchedtheboat:

oh my bad, as long as we know what scan I'm referring to. Also he could've just been saying that as an ego thing, like 'whatever you can do I can do better' kind of statement. Wait, when did you post those scans? I dont see anything :\

I'll post them again (Time Masters: Vanishing Point #6)

Gallery

As for Thawne's statement, I think he underestimated Clark's speed which allowed him to tag him, and then he compliments his speed but saying that nobody is still as fast as him and then proving that by blitzing all of them and then moving so fast nobody could tag him, not even Superman nor Hal Jordan.

Superman being blitzed by Thawne in that scenario only meant Superman wasn't ready, if he sped up his perception he'd be able to most likely see his punches coming, because just like you said; PZ probably wasn't at optimal speeds in that scenario.

He wasn't because Superman was focused on Thawne only before Thawne blitzed him. See for yourself. This is what happened before Thawne blitzed him.

So I doubt Clark won't just accelerate his perception as high as he could considering the fact that he is facing Barry's most dangerous enemy ever and that Clark is already aware how Barry is much faster than him and Clark himself is tactical genius who always analysis his opponents and the situation to end the fight quickly and effectively, unless you wants to talk people down and stop fighting. Besides, Clark didn't have to accelerate his perception in order to see Barry and Wally running away from the Black Racer while being terrified and moving extremely fast, running faster than Omega Beams and reaching superluminal velocity (Final Crisis #7)

Hell, he even recognized Barry Allen, who was dead for years and he was resurrected few minutes (or hours) ago without Clark being aware of it. He could confuse him with Bart Allen who was the last person who was the Flash during this time (excluding Wally coming back from the Speed Force with Linda and kids), but he didn't. He actually recognized Barry under the mask. And he did not have any time to accelerate his perception in this instance because he was focused on Darkseid without expecting Wally to appear, even less his long dead friend Barry.

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Even if you want to argue that Clark was caught off guard (and he wasn't), he could steal react at least once after Thawne landed one or two punches, but he didn't. Thawne had all the time in the world to blitz Superman + two street level characters + Hal Jordan who is just a little bit slower than Superman. So he was moving so fast he could blitz two faster than light speedsters while having enough time to blitz Booster Gold and Rip Hunter without them being able to move an inch and stop him.

Well, OP doesn't really say bloodlusted or anything, so I doubt he'll do that right off the bat.

But Thawne wasn't bloodlusted while fighting Wally. He wasn't even angry. He was 100% in character.

oops I missed that. And, no it doesn't because just like I said; Hal's constructs aren't always going to be as hard as he could make them, it depends on how much he 'wills' them to be. I'd need to see the scans you're referring to though. You can't possibly be trying to say PZ hits harder than Superman, are you?

Well, Barry and Wally hit harder than Superman. Can Thawne hit harder than Superman? I don't know. Probably not because one showing is not enough to prove it. I don't have time to post scans right now so I'll post them after you reply.

Superman doesn't always go at full speeds. It's inconsistent because Superman rarely ever uses that speed. Case and point, Superman fighting Mongul; Superman goes fist for fist with him while Flash (forget which one) simply uses his speed to tire him out until Mongul passes out. This should prove that Superman won't go super-super-fast unless he needs to. lol you don't need to 'prove' to me that Superman is slower than these guys, I'm not trying to say that he is. All I'm saying is he's capable of giving enough speed to not always be a 'snail' to them. He has some feats to prove that.

Superman uses his speed very very often. More times than not. I know there are multiple instances where he could hold his own against the Flashes, but when you look at his most impressive showing of speed that is consistent, and then Flashes consistent high end showing, he is pretty much a snail.

Yeah that one. He doesn't need to be on par with Thawne's speed to tag him, we both have already seen scans of that. Superman only wanted to stop Thawne from moving which is why he closed-lined him in that scan, if he wanted to hurt PZ in that moment there wouldn't be much stopping him. Thawne doesn't vibrate right away in his fights, if he did; Wally would be dead, Hal would be dead, Booster Gold would be dead, Batman would be dead, etc. The thing is, this fight will be dragged out long enough for Superman to know he shouldn't give him that opportunity. What other ways does he have? OP already listed that he can't go back in time.

I can provide context of every single fight you mentioned to explain why Thawne wasn't trying to vibrate through people. However now I'm in the rush and I have barely enough time to reply so again, when you reply again I will explain the context. As for Superman tagging Thawne, Clark's speed (excluding outliers) is above nanosecond range, like faster than light. Not that much but still above. Thawne however operates in span of picoseconds which means 1000x faster than light speedsters. The speed gap is too large for Superman to tag him unless Thawne is jobbing.

kind of like Superman and Eobard Thawne :)))

I'm sorry but I don't think I understand this part :)

I disagree, Barry or Wally were tagged by people like Wonder Woman, Darkseid, Starbreaker, hell even Martian Manhunter was able to keep up with a bloodlusted Wally West, and yet Superman can always go toe to toe with these guys in a fist fight sure he'll get smacked silly by Darkseid and Starbreaker but my point still stands lol.

And Superman was tagged by street level characters. That does not change the fact that they are snails compared to him and same goes for the Flashes. None of these guys are fast enough to tag them while moving at their top speed (Starbreaker can because of his other crazy powers, maybe Darkseid as well). So for the most part we don't know how fast they were moving in those instances. Even Shazam could keep up with Wally and he was blitzed by weakened Superman.

In character - Thawne Wins.

out of character - thawne wins easily.

Plus you are giving him 1 min of prep. What would Superman do in 1 min of prep. Get a phantom zone projector lol. Superman could try to fly away using his fast travel speed but thawne would know and would still tag him.

@krleavenger: Zolomon is overrated?

He is literally one of those characters that's meant to be stronger than your beloved heroes...

@rammerman: What in God's name are you talking about?

Alone Post-Flashpoint/New-52 Superman Power-Ranking is booming to extraordinary levels... it's even matching post-crisis Superman at this rate.

The same goes for Dr.Manhattan their rankings are booming like there is no tomorrow right now.

@krleavenger: You said " The only speedsters that are overrated are wally and zolomon"

Sorry if i wasn't clear.

Thawne

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