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#101 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Not in 20 seconds he can't"
He can do it in less.
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#102 Posted by King Saturn (222958 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Not in 20 seconds he can't"
20 seconds ? Who said anything about 20 seconds ? I am saying that Superman would beat Venom here...
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#103 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon

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#104 Posted by King Saturn (222958 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Superman strength level - at least 900,000,000 tons

Abomination strength level - 300 tons maximum
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#105 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Non canon stuff doesn't count so why are you even posting it.Venom couldn't even touch Superman..
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#106 Posted by One-Above-You (1855 posts) - - Show Bio

Why can't you accept the fact that Superman will curbstomp Abomination easily.

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#107 Posted by One-Above-You (1855 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
In non canon, Superman beats the Hulk every time.
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#108 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Superman strength level - at least 900,000,000 tons

Abomination strength level - 300 tons maximum
"
Why do people have to tell him this more than once?
Moderator
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#109 Posted by King Saturn (222958 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"King Saturn said:
"SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Superman strength level - at least 900,000,000 tons

Abomination strength level - 300 tons maximum
"
Why do people have to tell him this more than once?"
Well I have posted before in here that Current Superman's strength level was at least 100,000 tons... when in reality that is old outdated info from the DC Database. The actual number is much higher around 900,000,000 tons... 

But However you look at it. Abomination is Dead here...
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#110 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Superman strength level - at least 900,000,000 tons

Abomination strength level - 300 tons maximum
"
How much can Venom lift 30 or 40 tons LOL.

One-Above-You
said:
"SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
In non canon, Superman beats the Hulk every time.
"

Your right this is not canon I have many more that are.
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#111 Posted by King Saturn (222958 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"King Saturn said:
"SeSAW said:
"I just posting that to prove that Superman won't be able to defeat Abomination easily if he can't even deafeat Venom. I have some more that are non canon "
Superman strength level - at least 900,000,000 tons

Abomination strength level - 300 tons maximum
"
How much can Venom lift 30 or 40 tons LOL.

"
Venom should be higher than 30 to 40 tons... Venom is at least 60 or 70 tons
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#112 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

No its really not

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#113 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
Broly2 said:
"No its really not"

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#114 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

And Hulk definantly holds back

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#115 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio

..............

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#116 Posted by Methos (40531 posts) - - Show Bio

this has just become laughable now...

M

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#117 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
Methos said:
"this has just become laughable now...

M
"
It was laughable before.
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#118 Posted by Glorious (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

... why is this still opened i would have thought the mods would lock it

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#119 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

Go ahead and lock it I think ive proved My point which is Superman should win a hard fought battle.

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#120 Posted by Platinumwarrior (2851 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman hurls Abomination into the sun.

Fight over.

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#121 Posted by the creator (8570 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
Well going by your argument, how do you know DD is stronger than Superman he doesnt have the feats to prove it . And Abomination is said to be stronger than base level Hulk so that puts his strength up there pretty high."
The problem you face when comparing Marvel to DC heroes is down to a few main issues.
Firstly DC usually don't quote figures for what their characters can lift. You have to interpret their feats. Superman was an exception in the Who's Who of the DC universe comic when they quoted him out at 6,000,000 tonnes (equal to lifting the great pyramid of Egypt).
Marvel on the other hand quote figures for many of their characters but use a lame 100 tonne system. Anyone higher than than 100 tonnes can either lift 100 + tonnes or is simply incalcuble. How does that define the characters. So again we are forced to interpret feats for the powerhouses to understand what they can and cannot do.
Also for Marvel, the characters perform strength feats that are no where near their actual reported strength level.
For instance,
  • Sasquatch (stated at 70 tonnes) lifting up one end of a destroyer out of the water it was floating on. A loaded destroyer weights approx 10,000 tonnes.
Sentry (stated at over 100 tonnes) struggling to slow a falling helicarrier. The helicarrier would appear to be similar in size and weight to a small aircraft carrier (so between 50,000 – 60,000 tonnes)
  • Gladiator (stated at over 100 tonnes) lifting the Baxter Building. The building should weight aprox  100,000 tonnes)
    • Hulk (reasonably enraged – functionally calm 80 tonnes, at this level of anger, well over 100 tonnes) rupturing a 6 inch thick plate of carbon steel with a single punch. Through calculation, based on the strength of standard tempered medium carbon steel, and the size of the Hulk’s fists contact area being very large, he would require strength slightly in excess of 100,000 tonnes, to deliver the needed tonnage to rupture the plate.
    • Thor (more than 100 tonnes) lifting the tail of the Midgard Serpent. He appeared to be lifting at least a 300 feet length of the tail, that was approx 50 feet in diameter.  The weight of the tail (based on a nominal 1g/cm cubed figure) would be roughly 17,000 tonnes. As with many other Asgardian beings, this figure could be 2 – 3 times greater as the density of the flesh of these beings is 2 – 3 times higher.
      • Thor (more than 100 tonnes) lifting and throwing the Odin sword. The sword is at least 300 feet long. Using nominal dimensions and basing the material used on normal mild steel, the weight of the sword would be roughly 20,000 tonnes. To meaningfully throw it as well would require strength greater than 100,000 tonnes.

    Now knowing that most of the caharacters above strained to perform these feats does not easily then lend itself to saying that they could then duplicate a feat of say Superman moving millions to billions of tonnes.

    For both universes then their exists one final problem - the writers, who have in the past (and even some times today) show little in the way of power level continuity.

    When we look at most Marvel powerhouses, they perform feats that are usually lower than their DC counterparts and they usually look to struggle (the effort on their faces) when they do it.
    Now we can all post scans where this or that Marvel character pulls off a huge strength feat but it should not be those that you should be looking at, it's the majority of the characters appearances that should form their baseline level of strength. When you look at those, you will find that most Marvel powerhouses fall significantly short of their DC couterparts.

    Therefore picking up a battle tank (50 tonnes) and hurling it 1000 feet pales against picking up a 100,000 tonne aircraft carrier and hurling it thousands of miles.

    Baseline Hulk (calm) is 80 tonnes.
    Abomination is at 100 tonnes (not able to lift routinely more than this)


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    #122 Posted by Platinumwarrior (2851 posts) - - Show Bio

    Nice Post

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    #123 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio
    the creator said:
    "SeSAW said:
    Well going by your argument, how do you know DD is stronger than Superman he doesnt have the feats to prove it . And Abomination is said to be stronger than base level Hulk so that puts his strength up there pretty high."
    The problem you face when comparing Marvel to DC heroes is down to a few main issues.
    Firstly DC usually don't quote figures for what their characters can lift. You have to interpret their feats. Superman was an exception in the Who's Who of the DC universe comic when they quoted him out at 6,000,000 tonnes (equal to lifting the great pyramid of Egypt).
    Marvel on the other hand quote figures for many of their characters but use a lame 100 tonne system. Anyone higher than than 100 tonnes can either lift 100 + tonnes or is simply incalcuble. How does that define the characters. So again we are forced to interpret feats for the powerhouses to understand what they can and cannot do.
    Also for Marvel, the characters perform strength feats that are no where near their actual reported strength level.
    For instance,
    • Sasquatch (stated at 70 tonnes) lifting up one end of a destroyer out of the water it was floating on. A loaded destroyer weights approx 10,000 tonnes.
    Sentry (stated at over 100 tonnes) struggling to slow a falling helicarrier. The helicarrier would appear to be similar in size and weight to a small aircraft carrier (so between 50,000 – 60,000 tonnes)
  • Gladiator (stated at over 100 tonnes) lifting the Baxter Building. The building should weight aprox  100,000 tonnes)
    • Hulk (reasonably enraged – functionally calm 80 tonnes, at this level of anger, well over 100 tonnes) rupturing a 6 inch thick plate of carbon steel with a single punch. Through calculation, based on the strength of standard tempered medium carbon steel, and the size of the Hulk’s fists contact area being very large, he would require strength slightly in excess of 100,000 tonnes, to deliver the needed tonnage to rupture the plate.
    Thor (more than 100 tonnes) lifting the tail of the Midgard Serpent. He appeared to be lifting at least a 300 feet length of the tail, that was approx 50 feet in diameter.  The weight of the tail (based on a nominal 1g/cm cubed figure) would be roughly 17,000 tonnes. As with many other Asgardian beings, this figure could be 2 – 3 times greater as the density of the flesh of these beings is 2 – 3 times higher.
    • Thor (more than 100 tonnes) lifting and throwing the Odin sword. The sword is at least 300 feet long. Using nominal dimensions and basing the material used on normal mild steel, the weight of the sword would be roughly 20,000 tonnes. To meaningfully throw it as well would require strength greater than 100,000 tonnes.

  • Now knowing that most of the caharacters above strained to perform these feats does not easily then lend itself to saying that they could then duplicate a feat of say Superman moving millions to billions of tonnes.

    For both universes then their exists one final problem - the writers, who have in the past (and even some times today) show little in the way of power level continuity.

    When we look at most Marvel powerhouses, they perform feats that are usually lower than their DC counterparts and they usually look to struggle (the effort on their faces) when they do it.
    Now we can all post scans where this or that Marvel character pulls off a huge strength feat but it should not be those that you should be looking at, it's the majority of the characters appearances that should form their baseline level of strength. When you look at those, you will find that most Marvel powerhouses fall significantly short of their DC couterparts.

    Therefore picking up a battle tank (50 tonnes) and hurling it 1000 feet pales against picking up a 100,000 tonne aircraft carrier and hurling it thousands of miles.

    Baseline Hulk (calm) is 80 tonnes.
    Abomination is at 100 tonnes (not able to lift routinely more than this)


    "
    First off youcan't put any faith in power ranking even in the marvel handbook that is endorsed by Marvel and on the web site, and there cards all of them generally have different info, except for obvious things like most everyone will have Galactus intelligence at the highest posible end. DC rankings are pretty much the same but if you actually look at it there are a whole lot of inconsistancies, like even base Savage Hulk should start off well above 100+ tons as I have never really seen him struggle to lift much of anything and thats before hes enraged, and that's just one example. But what are you getting at, Abomination is actually well over 100+ ton mark just by the fact that he can do battle with any 100+ ton lifter.
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    #124 Posted by Platinumwarrior (2851 posts) - - Show Bio

    Like i said before Superman hurls Abomination into the sun

     

    Fight Over

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    #125 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

    Yep just like he tryed to hurl Wonder Woman into the sun huh.

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    #126 Posted by the creator (8570 posts) - - Show Bio
    SeSAW said:
    First off youcan't put any faith in power ranking even in the marvel handbook that is endorsed by Marvel and on the web site, and there cards all of them generally have different info, except for obvious things like most everyone will have Galactus intelligence at the highest posible end. DC rankings are pretty much the same but if you actually look at it there are a whole lot of inconsistancies, like even base Savage Hulk should start off well above 100+ tons as I have never really seen him struggle to lift much of anything and thats before hes enraged, and that's just one example. But what are you getting at, Abomination is actually well over 100+ ton mark just by the fact that he can do battle with any 100+ ton lifter.
    "
    I don't put faith in how much weight Marvel says that a powerhouse character can lift.
    They have shown to be far from accurate on many occasions.

    Perhaps what you can put more faith in is that Marvel has identified who is stronger than whom, by their rankings (in the OHOTMU only though).
    For instance, Spiderman was quoted at 10 tonnes while Scorpion was 15 tonnes. Therefore Scorpion was stronger.
    Wonder Man was quoted at 95 tonnes while Thor was over 100 tonnes. Therefore Thor was the stronger.

    As for what Marvel characters can lift, I mean to imply that for the big powerhouse characters (Thing, Thor, Abomination, Hulk, Sentry etc), perhaps their strength is more towards them being able to lift in to the tens and hundreds of thousands of tonnes. This then ties in with most of the strength feats that they display.

    For instance, the Thing picking up a boulder that weights 3 - 5 tonnes (slightly bigger than a meter cubed) and hurling it thousands of feet). That certainly requires more than 100 tonnes of lifting strength, or any of the other examples I cited previously.

    Perhaps by simply multiplying their quoted Marvel strength (for the powerhouses only) by a 1000 times, would help provide more accurate figures for the kinds of feats that have been shown to perform.

    However, this still does not compare to a being like Superman who has been shown regularly to perform feats requiring the strength to lift millions to billions of tonnes.

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    #127 Posted by SeSAW (3694 posts) - - Show Bio

    Current Superman doesn't regularly lift bilions of tons he does it on occasions, as does Hulk. and Thing would not fit in the 100+ strength lifting class but there are quite a few others that do, for instance Sasquatch has always been well over that mark he has proved it several times, as well as Hercules, Wonderman, Namor (in water) and even She Hulk and Ms marvel. But your right Marvel is very inconsistant on the rankings thats why you have to read the comics and see what the characters can do consistantly. 

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    #128 Posted by vance_astro (90094 posts) - - Show Bio
    Creator...you are a man more patient than I.
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    #129 Posted by Triumphant (2578 posts) - - Show Bio
    the creator said:
    "SeSAW said:
    First off youcan't put any faith in power ranking even in the marvel handbook that is endorsed by Marvel and on the web site, and there cards all of them generally have different info, except for obvious things like most everyone will have Galactus intelligence at the highest posible end. DC rankings are pretty much the same but if you actually look at it there are a whole lot of inconsistancies, like even base Savage Hulk should start off well above 100+ tons as I have never really seen him struggle to lift much of anything and thats before hes enraged, and that's just one example. But what are you getting at, Abomination is actually well over 100+ ton mark just by the fact that he can do battle with any 100+ ton lifter.
    "
    I don't put faith in how much weight Marvel says that a powerhouse character can lift.
    They have shown to be far from accurate on many occasions.

    Perhaps what you can put more faith in is that Marvel has identified who is stronger than whom, by their rankings (in the OHOTMU only though).
    For instance, Spiderman was quoted at 10 tonnes while Scorpion was 15 tonnes. Therefore Scorpion was stronger.
    Wonder Man was quoted at 95 tonnes while Thor was over 100 tonnes. Therefore Thor was the stronger.

    As for what Marvel characters can lift, I mean to imply that for the big powerhouse characters (Thing, Thor, Abomination, Hulk, Sentry etc), perhaps their strength is more towards them being able to lift in to the tens and hundreds of thousands of tonnes. This then ties in with most of the strength feats that they display.

    For instance, the Thing picking up a boulder that weights 3 - 5 tonnes (slightly bigger than a meter cubed) and hurling it thousands of feet). That certainly requires more than 100 tonnes of lifting strength, or any of the other examples I cited previously.

    Perhaps by simply multiplying their quoted Marvel strength (for the powerhouses only) by a 1000 times, would help provide more accurate figures for the kinds of feats that have been shown to perform.

    However, this still does not compare to a being like Superman who has been shown regularly to perform feats requiring the strength to lift millions to billions of tonnes.

    "

    Nice post.
    Avatar image for the_creator
    #130 Posted by the creator (8570 posts) - - Show Bio
    SeSAW said:

    "Current Superman doesn't regularly lift bilions of tons he does it on occasions,
    That's why I said millions to billions of tonnes. Long lists of strength feast have been posted on this site in various battle threads that adequately show that his strength needs to be this high for dozens to hundreds of his feats.
    Look around at some of the postings itf that helps.

    as does Hulk.
    Classic Hulk (not WWH) rarely shows strength at these levels. His usual feats are much lower in tonnage when you actaully start to work through the numbers.
    He has occasionally shown strength in the millions to billions of tonnes but these are exceptions to his normal range. As you say below, base it on consistency.

    and Thing would not fit in the 100+ strength lifting class but there are quite a few others that do, for instance Sasquatch has always been well over that mark he has proved it several times, as well as Hercules, Wonderman, Namor (in water) and even She Hulk and Ms marvel.
    I agree. There are characters that should be ranked differently but that's not to say that any system of figures are full proof, only that they may help provide guidance in some circumstances. So for the strength rankings, use them as guideline to compare to the feast / battles you see these characters fighting.

    But your right Marvel is very inconsistant on the rankings thats why you have to read the comics and see what the characters can do consistantly. "
    I'm glad you agree.

     

    Vance Astro said:

    "Creator...you are a man more patient than I."

    I am practicing my virtues.
    Sainthood awaits......

    Avatar image for platinumwarrior
    #131 Posted by Platinumwarrior (2851 posts) - - Show Bio

    creator he's just not worth it....