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#51 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4634 posts) - - Show Bio

Non amped versions?

Team 1 should win comfortably

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#52 Edited by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I’m exaggerating a bit, but from everything I’ve seen Superman does beat Hal solidly, Hal simply lacks the necessary blunt force durability and speed.

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#53 Posted by Tedirey (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

The Godhead event already showed that even B Tier New Gods stomps an army of Green Lanterns.

Orion solos.

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#54 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: that first evidence i have replied to you.and proven superman have the power to break through samiliar shields.

the second,in action comics 784,superman is holding back.he even first want reason to kyle,then when fighting kyle construct,he didn't fighting back,because he make kyle construct use his all power to aim on him to minimize casualties,and also save kyle by taunting his construct push he out of edge make batman have time to cure kyle.and even its kyle construct,kyle still not have a easy fight(batman:easy lantern,it's over now.kyle:says you---feel like i went fifty rounds with---was superman a herb to me?)

like i said,all of superman and orion and lanterns is same level power,so surely one could hurt other,especially when the other don't fighting back,you let kyle don't fighting back and let superman punches his face a while,i'm sure kyle also have a bad shape

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#55 Posted by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#56 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: and alan scott beated by black adam in hawkman 25(with another JSA members),superman always keep a stalement with black adam or shazam in a fight(or one-shot each other,like in JLA shazam two or three punches knoch out superman,JSA brainwashing superman rushed shazam and instantly knoch him out)

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#57 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: and big bang energies like i said before,kyle is also extremely hard to contain it(though sure containing a while)

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and superman also have simaliar universal feats,like in where is thy sting,superman tanks a universe collasping,and through time-space,and quantum ocean,then one-shot a universes death

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#58 Edited by baph (2379 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

Hal or Kyle beat Superman, then the Duo beats Orion.

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#59 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (7246 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman waits in the background and surprises everyone with a roundhouse AOE attack

BATMAN WINS!!!!

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#60 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwertyuiop1998: Kyle did not contain the big bang, Imperiex Armor wasn't cracked Superman cracked later on. It would be an outlier regardless. Kyles shield isn't on skyfather level.

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#61 Posted by NiteLite (2722 posts) - - Show Bio

This is extremely close.

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#62 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini: From what I know, the obvious counterpoints to your position is that Hal does have the durability to stand up to Clark's hits as well as the speed to keep up and the damage output to harm him. And that's not considering Kyle who at his best exceeds both Superman and Hal's capabilities.

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#63 Edited by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Hal does have the durability to stand up to Clark's hits

And what feats does Hal have to say he can stand up to Clark's hits, because everything I've seen from him is grossly over-hyped and filled with context. Tanking a blitz and a punch from Cyborg Superman? Sure it's fine I guess, but let's not forget it was a relatively weak incarnation, the same Hank got his arm shredded by a next to nobody Lantern one page later (yes, I know Arisia has some appearances). Tanks a hit form one of Larfleeze's constructs? And what are their striking feats, I've never seen anything from them in that regard. One of the latest I've seen getting hilariously exaggerated is Hal getting thrown into and busting a moonlet, just because it was drawn circular (which it truly isn't if we look at all the panels) it's supposedly Moon busting durability, even though the art clearly depicts it as extremely small. Getting punched by Superboy Prime, once again, Prime hasn't actually done significant damage with one punch or one shotted a single high tier other than Power Girl, and he did that with a blitz/bullrush. The only noteworthy blunt force feat I've seen for Hal is him getting blasted through a planet, which is a good enough feat, but not good enough to say he won't get significantly hurt by Superman's blows, Supergirl has the exact same feat, the same Supergirl that Clark can easily damage even while holding back. That's it, a grand total of five feats... Three of which are pure scaling.

Kryptonian physicals have been proven time and time again as overwhelming for Lanterns, Johns' had Gor one shot Hal's and John's personal force-fields in a single move, in Rebirth he's been one shotted by both Superman and Zod, and yes I'm fully aware of the context. But what I find funny is how many deliberately overlook the full context, was Zod amped under two stars? Absolutely, did that put him above Superman level? Not according to John who stated they were amped to Superman's level, something supported by feats in Superman's own book where he tussled with future double Sun amped Zod and his family, but I guess it's more convenient to completely forget about that. What about Superman one shotting Hal in his own book, Clark mentions how he'd hate to see how Hal punches when he's in his right mind. The problem here is that Hal was in his right mind, he has not controlled in any way, shape or form, he didn't do anything he didn't want to, it was his own actions driven by his own will, Hector only made Hal see an illusion nothing more, he did not control him in any way, this is something Superman couldn't have possibly known, so his statement is nothing more than a guess, a wrong one. Not to mention that Hector put Hal under a way more extensive and complex illusion in the very next issue and Hal plainly stated how it does not at all affect his connection to his ring or his will. Once again I only see half of the actual context being mentioned for the sake of Hal not looking utterly pathetic and getting a concussion by mistake from a holding back Supes.

Hal has a very distinct lack of quantifiable blunt force durability feats, mainly relying on bad context filled scaling, so I don't see at all what stops Superman from taking him down in a few good hits.

speed to keep up

He really doesn't, his famous feat in GL: Rebirth is nothing more than travel speed mixed in with a bit of fighting, for God's f*cking sake they reach Saturn with pure straight line travel speed, they didn't even fight all the way there. He was getting absolutely blitzed by Barry and was only able to tag him either by making a huge construct which Parallax-Bary just stupidly run into or while Barry was in the air and had no way to use his speed. Catching Zoom is impressive, but Zoom wasn't engaging him, Hal simply cheap shot him from behind, still it proves Hal fast reactions.

Superman though has been shown as significantly faster than Hal in three distinct direct comparisons, by different writers including Johns' who gave Hal his supposed FTL feat.

and the damage output to harm him

With energy projection? Sure, but it will take him more time than it would take Superman to KO him with his punches.

Honestly I truly believe most classic Hulk vs Superman, Thor vs Superman type matches are hard battles, Hal is the only character I see get highballed so much where people actually believe he can stomp Thor, Superman, Hulk and so on...

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#64 Posted by Adm1ralSnackbar (299 posts) - - Show Bio

The notion of Superman overtaking a human GL is an ignorant one. No amount of misinformed words and paragraphs can change that.

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#65 Posted by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

@adm1ralsnackbar: You’re more than welcome to come back when you have an actual argument.

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#66 Edited by SpartaForever (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwertyuiop1998: you know that’s pis.According to Mr.Terrific, the third smartest guy, Alan Scott is the most powerful man on earth-https://m.imgur.com/EWwV9LZ

He’s already contained Black Adam in the past

https://i.imgur.com/zbkrxZE_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

As for the Kyle construct, Kyle didn’t even get touched by Supes. And besides, it wasn’t even the real Kyle, the fact of the matter Kyles construct made a blast that disfigured Superman’s face and he has the power to do so.

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#67 Posted by SpartaForever (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini: let’s see. Uhh, well larfleeze has regularly taken on the guardians of the universe.

His constructs have easily overpowered lanterns and the guardians themselves because of sheer quantity. Hal Jordan-Blunt Force Feats

Takes a punch from Orion

http://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/godhead2-3.jpg

A punch from Classic Mongul who gave Superman trouble

https://i.imgur.com/7lb3x0H_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Takes two hits from Wonder Woman.https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wonder-woman-vs-green-lantern-4.jpg

Superman gets hit once and says he’s never felt so much pain.

I could go on and on, Hal May not have the durabilty but that’s why he should take on Orion, Hal’s durabilty to energy projection is much better and Kyles blasts will take care of Supes.

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#68 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: because you use kyle contain the big bang energies in the first place,so i use superman universal feats.

and according dc website,superman is the most powerful being in the planet:https://www.dccomics.com/characters/superman.alan contained black adam only when he don't really want fight,just separate them,make them have time to calm down

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and for your kyle's construct,comic clearly said:"safe.as you predicted,the focus of his energy was aimed at you",so supes really purpose just let kyle's construct aimed his all power on him to minimize casulties,so supes don't need to touch kyle construct,this is unnecessary.and like i said all of superman and orion and lanterns is same level power,so surely one could hurt other,especially when the other don't fighting back,you let kyle don't fighting back and let superman punches his face a while,i'm sure kyle also have a bad shape

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#69 Posted by deactivated-5cc66e8574839 (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to stop the parade the praise of Kyle Rayner, but he has himself confirmed he is not as powerful as Superman.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/23684094/P00008.jpg.html

And when he gets his ass kicked, he wishes Superman was there.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/dfc-WK7nORSGGfCc3tq_lcmssEnWr_8YxZtD3jO9rm_dQpwzV4kCgszecHcuL14CwN9vph2CRgGh=s1600

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#70 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7824 posts) - - Show Bio

Kyle and Hal.

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#71 Posted by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever:

Uhh, well larfleeze has regularly taken on the guardians of the universe. His constructs have easily overpowered lanterns and the guardians themselves because of sheer quantity.

How is you admitting that Larfleeze's constructs are capable of taking on Lanterns and the Guardians only because of their sheer quantity helping your case in any way? Do they have any impressive striking feats or not?

Takes a punch from Orion

Taking a singular punch form a high tier is the bare minimum I would expect. Still, New-52 Orion's best striking feats is making Superman and First Born grunt... Barely. How does that stack up against even New-52 Superman's feats of making H'el (someone canonically more powerful than him) bleed, nearly burning the entire atmosphere with the side effect of his hits or shaking the planet and the Watchtower? It doesn't. And let's not talk about Post-Crisis (and Rebirth) Superman who can punch the Moon out of orbit while severely weakened, one shot other Kryptonians, one shot Diana with an FTL Sun to Earth punch; and what do you know, has already one shot Hal.

A punch from Classic Mongul who gave Superman trouble

He actually tanked three hits from Mongul, well survived would be a more fitting term, he was getting manhandled and every one of those hits caused him significant damage, Hal came out of that fight with a torn knee, a broken arm, bruises, cuts and a bleeding head, but I like how you purposefully posted the single hit out of the three that caused him the least damage:

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The scans are obviously from Green Lantern #46 - Death City, I highlighted the relevant parts of Hal admitting he was getting pretty much destroyed. Also, if we look at Superman #82 - Back For Good! (which is the next issue chronologically speaking in the storyline) we can see Hal having created a construct knee brace and an arm sling to support his broken bones, that's besides his bruised up face and bleeding head:

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Moving on, I guess you're referring to Green Lantern #53 - Rematch when you're saying that classic Mongul has given Superman trouble, yes, well a number of things wrong with this, fist of all this is a canonically weaker Superman before he broke his extensive mental blocks by training with Mongul II, secondly Clark was not hurt at all during this fight, he didn't bleed, he didn't even grunt or made any comment about being hurt, the best Mongul could accomplish was push back Superman a few inches, which again did nothing to him. By the way, this is not the only fight classic Mongul has had with Superman, there's a reason the comic is called "Rematch" and that reason is Superman's fight with Mongul in the Superman: Exile storyline. In which a weakened pre death, pre Mongul II training Superman fought and won against classic Mongul when he finally got angry and serious, yet still holding back as Mongul admitted Clark could cripple him with a blast of his heat vision:

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From Superman #32 - Gladiator, Mongul did manage to get up but it was like half a minute afterwards.

Takes two hits from Wonder Woman

I'm sorry what? Wonder Woman slashed Hal with her sword and then pretty obviously stomped the ground to and sent him flying back:

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I'm not sure using scans from the New-52 is going to help your case (Lanterns were pretty pathetic), especially Justice League #11 where right before your scan Diana effortlessly broke Hal's construct and made him bleed from the nose and mouth with a singe backhand:

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I guess you could say Hal tanked a punch from her, not that it matters since New-52 Diana is not comparable to a Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint Superman on any level.

Superman gets hit once and says he’s never felt so much pain.

Yes, well that tells us nothing since Superman has been on the receiving end of much harder hits, even hits that have KO'd him, his statement only means that he hadn't been hit that hard by that point of his career.

It's pretty funny really, I've never seen so many blunt force durability feats for a character be "Oh look he survived a single hit from X", Hal tanks a single hit from Orion, a single hit from Prime, a single hit from Larfleeze, a single solid hit from Cyborg Superman, a single hit from Diana, the only high tier I've seen strike Hal more than once is Mongul, who hit him three times and broke multiple bones.

I could go on and on, Hal May not have the durabilty but that’s why he should take on Orion, Hal’s durabilty to energy projection is much better and Kyles blasts will take care of Supes.

I'm not as familiar with Kyle so I don't want to comment on that as of now, what I care about is disputing this Hal wank.

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#73 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two wins.

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#74 Posted by Adm1ralSnackbar (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini: I would but from what ive been reading id lose a copious amount of time and brain cells from pure interaction with one such as yourself. Id be better off arguing with a COD Player or Google+ user. Least then i can find some humour in it.

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#75 Posted by BruceRogers (17621 posts) - - Show Bio

The notion of Superman overtaking a human GL is an ignorant one. No amount of misinformed words and paragraphs can change that.

I agree. Superman has the stats, but his versatility and power isn't comparable to a lantern.

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#76 Posted by Adm1ralSnackbar (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: Yep. Not to mention hes already been outdone by Human GLS in many facets. Unless youre outright fallacious and delusional any Human GL worth his salt would take down Clark in a solid fight.

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#77 Edited by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

@adm1ralsnackbar: Careful now, you wouldn’t want to cut yourself with all that edginess.

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#78 Posted by deactivated-5cc66e8574839 (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: That's cute, both Hal and Kyle have admitted they are less powerful than Superman.

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#79 Posted by deactivated-5cc66e8574839 (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

@adm1ralsnackbar: Have they now? Remind us when a human GL has taken down Superman unless they were amped by possession of Parallax?

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#80 Posted by decaf_wizard (17077 posts) - - Show Bio

@adm1ralsnackbar said:

The notion of Superman overtaking a human GL is an ignorant one. No amount of misinformed words and paragraphs can change that.

I agree. Superman has the stats, but his versatility and power isn't comparable to a lantern.

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#81 Edited by SpartaForever (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwertyuiop1998: I have very little idea what you're saying in the last paragraph. I assume you mean that Superman is gonna deal damage to kyle but like i said, due to kyle's shield he can take more damage. He can deal more damage to superman than superman can to him.

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#82 Posted by SpartaForever (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@motifian: Sorry but you're wrong they haven't.

In the contrary, Superman once said this-http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dNgNPwAJDI4/SCosPrOd3yI/AAAAAAAABPU/o57qMNTxazQ/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Supesspeech.jpg

And to counter you're "no gl has taken superman down that wasn't amped by parallax, like i showed hal has taken on an amped zod and beat him, kyle has made a construct that disfigured superman's face, and john stewart even incapacited superman-https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/122143/3319656-john+vs+jla+part+2.jpg

John has actually held superman back before-https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/148326/4029668-2529690388-39344.jpg

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#83 Posted by SpartaForever (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkhoudini: Im short on time so ill only counter the most important stuff.

Face it or not Mongul gave Superman trouble-During the Bronze Age of comic books, Mongul was stronger than Superman and almost totally invulnerable to harm.[5][6]Superman defeated him by foiling his schemes, but only once defeated Mongul in hand-to-hand combat. Even then, Superman fell unconscious immediately after.[6] Mongul also demonstrated the ability to teleport;[5] limited telepathy and telekinesis;[6] and could project blasts of potent force via his eyes,[4] hands,[5] or chest. The character also used technology to shrink his enemies and place them in dimensional-inversion cubes designed to prevent escape by warping their interior reality and absorbing any power used against them from within.[6] The Modern Age Mongul the Elder version started off with less power than the silver age but was still a formidable foe and a capable match up against Superman on multiple occasions if, albeit, slightly weaker.

Even when Kyle Rayner had Superman help him fight Mongul, Superman struggled with Mongul and it was Kyle who took Mongul down, even though he was a rookie and had a weakness to yellow.This is even more impressive considering Superman was more powerful here than pre-death-https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/14/145849/6506467-rco011.jpg

While Mongul was beating up Hal, i think youre a smart guy. Anybody can tell Hal is getting old, he was aging and less powerful than before. He also didnt even have his personal shields on since Mongul is yellow and lanterns still had the yellow weakness back then. So without any shields, an aging Hal Jordan with a weakness to yellow takes several hits from Mongul and still manages to knock him out.

Wonder Woman sent Hal back. He is still tanking it. And keeps fighting, he wasnt stunned or anything. While Diana did shatter the construct he was more or less trying to contain her and New 52 Hal is not the strongest hal jordan version.https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wonder-woman-vs-green-lantern-5.jpg Its also notable if you look closely Hal staggered Wonder Woman with a club construct.

In comparison a kick from Diana did this to Superman-https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140292/3505976-www.jpg

That looks like it hurt Superman a lot more than Hal Jordan who was sent back some feet away from Wonder Woman when she hit him.

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#84 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: my last paragraph is mean superman(or orion) also could hurt hal(or kyle) pretty bad if hal(kyle) holding back(due to them all the same level power),so you said kyle's construct could give superman a bad shape is not impressive since superman is holding back..and there's no prove could support kyle's shield can take more damage than superman can do to him.

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#85 Posted by Warlockmage (9390 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2... Hal or Kyle will beat Superman the other can keep Orion occupied until they can duo him

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#86 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: john held superman because superman don't want fight,he even not struggle.and mongul in pre-crisis also states entire justice league no one is equal to superman.

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and when Kyle Rayner had Superman help him fight Mongul,in your mentioned last issue,mongul easily defeat kyle(green lantern V3 52).and if your really look at superman and kyle fight mogul,then you shoulg know this fight most of the effort is superman,kyle just distract mongul and give he final blow,not to mention when parallax absorbed CB,lantern ring have no weakness to yellow.

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#87 Posted by PanzerX (519 posts) - - Show Bio

@qwertyuiop1998: That was still Kyle as a Rookie GL, and can't be compared to Kyle as a Veteran GL.

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#88 Posted by qwertyuiop1998 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

@panzerx: i know that was kyle's first appearances,but it's SpartaForever mentioned it in the first place,so i just conter his point(1superman and kyle vs mongul is superman done most effort,2kyle haven't yellow weakness at that period)

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#89 Posted by deactivated-5cc66e8574839 (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

@spartaforever: Yes, Superman said that but later it was implied Hal is just too stupid to realize all the power he has.

Zod isn't Superman. Superman casually oneshotted Hal in the same book previously.

John was amped by possession of Parallax in Rebirth and in trinity was again amped by possession of Void Hound which he had absorbed earlier in JLA.

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#90 Posted by willpayton (22092 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins 6/10

The Lanterns are tough, but Superman and Orion are up there as people who can just barely take out top-tier Lanterns like Hal and Kyle. Kyle's feat of making Kryptonite is honestly a rare occurrence and it's hard to say he can do it during combat when he's busy fighting off speedblitzing Superman or Orion.

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#91 Posted by Supermanthor (21823 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1 mainly due to orion

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#92 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one obviously does not win.

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#93 Posted by DarkHoudini (388 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing’s changed, Hal is still too much of a glass cannon against blunt force and gets quickly taken care of, Kyle then gets double teamed and loses.

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#94 Posted by deactivated-5cef1a02a31b9 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

@helloman said:

Team one obviously does not win.

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#95 Posted by The_Red_Devil (5075 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal and Kyle , but it's a toss up.

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#96 Posted by WolverineBatmanFTW (1626 posts) - - Show Bio

Artificial kryptonite takes Clark out of the fight. The Lanterns then beat Orion into submission.

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#97 Posted by baph (2379 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 handily.

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