Superman and Martial Manhunter vs Thor and Silver Surfer

Morals off.

Battle takes place in a desert.

Who wins??

Anyone on Team 1 can beat Thor, however, Silver Surfer can easily defeat Superman leaving him to face Martian Manhunter which he'd eventually win

I believe that team 1 wins because of Superman.It is morals off and Supes has massive power that he never uses because he doesn't want to kill anyone!

But Silver Surfers time abillities could potentially stop Superman in his tracks, and with Odinforce Thor (He didn't specify) he would just uncreate the two so I'm tossing my hat in with Thor and Silver Surfer

Thors magic-based attacks incapacitate Superman while Silver Surfer ignites the air around Martian Manhunter, sending him into a terror-coma. After that they rock-paper-scissors who they kill first.

surfer and thor win.

If team 1 is winning, then it would be because of MM. Not Superman. I give it to Team because of Surfer.

Team 2. Thor is probably the weakest link at the moment (is it just me or are his power levels all over the place lately?) but he's strong enough to tank either of the other two. Surfer is better than any the other combatants IMO, so he takes out one and helps Thor finish the other.

A bloodlusted Superman is absolutely ridiculous, and your giving him MM as well??? For all of Surfer's Power... (and it is immense) he goes down. Thor, being as inconsistent as he is get's knocked out pretty quickly in this one, and a bloodlusted Superman and MM proceed to tag-team Surfer, taking blows in the process but eventually dropping him. With a little prep and PIS (not as much as you'd think) a bloodlusted Supes solo's.

Just thought of something. I'm probably wrong, but couldn't Silver Surfer just drain Supes of his yellow-sun abilities?

@tomekeeper: Yeah he could.... but that's a lot of draining, it also takes time and concentration..... 2 things a bloodlusted Superman doesn't give him. If Supe's wasn't bloodlusted, yeah maybe Surfer can take him through power drain, as he wouldn't realize what's going on until he's too weak to do anything..... a Bloodlusted Superman is a whole different animal though..... Personally I just don't think he give's Surfer the time to drain him. Again though just an opinion.

@schillenger420: Not so sure about that tbh, Surfer has some pretty brutal speed feats himself and he's a lot more versatile than Superman. I admit that I don't know too much about his draining though. Either way, I really doubt Superman can solo. To be honest, before AvX I might have even argued Thor could pose a serious threat to Supes (Superman would still have won, but they were pretty evenly matched for a time IMO)

@tomekeeper: Dammit, now i'm gonna have to come across as a fan-boy:<(.... anyway... A bloodlusted Superman with prep.... he can make any number of kryptonian devices, body armor, whatever.... plus there's always the dreaded "sun-dip" for however long he may need. Surfer's the more interesting and versatile character, but Bloodlusted Supermans just absolutely ruthless.... and honestly I don't know how good Surfers combat speed is... In travel Speed Supes can either match, or he won't be too far off. Combat speed... that's a question for someone that knows more about Surfer than I....

I won't even try and argue with sun-dip-there's no way Surfer can tank sundipped Superman for long enough to drain him. I tend to discount Sundipping unless explicitly stated just because it makes Supes too much of a wild card. Out of interest, do you know whether or not Silver Surfer can teleport? I think that Thor can, so it's not too crazy to think that Silver Surfer, if bloodlusted, could just sundip Supes into a red sun, which basically ends the fight-actually, that would probably work on MM too. I'm almost certain Silver Surfer can BFR people, but I can't remember for sure.

@tomekeeper: Shoot, after looking up Surfers abilities it seems the only thing he CAN'T do is res. the dead, or fight all that well H2H. Maybe he does have a shot...

Yeah, to be honest I'm never quite sure why Supes get so much hate for being overpowered while Surfer is so popular. I guess it's because he doesn't get as much publicity as Superman and he's arguably a more likable character. Good mini-debate btw. :)

@tomekeeper: Thank you.... and the reason Supes probably get's so much hate is because he's the Ultimate Dues. When DC needs a problem solved they always just bring in Superman or figure out a way he wins..... No-one likes a winner:>)

Surfer can't move faster than the speed of light without entering into Hyperspace, and his best speed feats involve moving on his surf board.

Superman can move FAR faster than the speed of light and he is far more versatile than surfer when it comes to motion.

Ok... cool... than Superman's combat speed which I'm pretty sure is FTL is going to give Surfer some serious issues. When I looked up Surfer it did say that when he goes FTL he enter's Hyperspace, I never thought of that as a restriction but your absolutely right in that Supe's can fight FTL.... Surfer can't.

@schillenger420: *Nods* Considering how fast Clark is in combat I think Surfer's only chance is to stay FAR away. Especially if Clark is bloodlusted. Surfer just can't handle millions of punches a second from a guy with Clark's strength and speed.

How about Tomekeepers idea of just teleporting Kent into a red sun. That won't kill him, but it should depower him sufficiently for Surfer to go in for the kill..... of course that assumes Surfer knows Clark's weakness and exploits it.... all in a matter of, what micro-seconds......

@schillenger420: Surfer has a lot of tools like that but it comes down to his ability to use them before Clark gets to him, or Manhunter starts mentally attacking him.

its hard but bloodlusted supes and martian controllling minds unless surfer can slow down time or stop it completly he could have a chance but martian would just control his mind poor thor

LoL.... with all the possible debates on this battle... one thing I think we can all agree on is.... Poor Thor.

Thor and Silver Surfer FTW

@bo88gdan: How does Surfer deal with Supermans FTL combat speed? Silver's strong but all that energy he manipulates doesn't go FTL.... that's just the nature of energy. Plus as has already been established if Surfer goes FTL he's in hyperspace.... which means he's not fighting.... he's traveling.

Thor is not less powerful than the aliens. No, no, no. He is actually more powerful. It's just he's slower..by a lot.

...And therefore the weak link.

@schillenger420: surfer can slow down timeor stop it that would be counter attack for supes speed with supes flying that slow hed as fast as thor is....

morals off, Surfer should solo...

The sad part, is that the Surftards don't realize the Silver Dildo has lost to Thor. I mean really? What's Surfer going to do against Superman punching him 1,000,000,000 times in one second? Surfer can (and has been) beaten to near death before. Why do the Surftards think it's any different now? It makes literally, no sense, no logic is being used with these people.

Oooops...

Therefore making him the weakest link.

The Silver Dildo a better character than Superman? An icon? News flash; people actually care about Superman. Tell me, how many Silver Dildo movies have come out over the past couple of years?

@capall2: Against a morals off MMH doubt it

don't...anything MMH can do the Surfer can do it greater and much more...

@hardcorefakes: Knock off the "surftard" nonsense.

@mt_revolution: Your correct, Surfer can slow time, slowing down Superman.... but it he'd have to do it before Superman hit FTL, once that happens messing with time shouldn't really affect him..... The speed of light and time are pretty linked. I think the theory goes that once an object is going FTL it's essentially moving backwards in time.... Once Superman hits FTL or beyond, slowing down time (I don't think....) Shouldn't really affect him that much because he's literally going faster than time itself. The faster an object moves the slower reality around them is, until they hit Light Speed and it should appear to the traveler that reality's standing still for everything but it. Granted the effect is negligable at anything less than relativistic or near relativistic speeds, but we're talking a guy (in Superman) that can fly and fight at not just FTL speeds, but MUCH faster than FTL speeds..... Since Surfer can't go FTL without entering hyperspace, whatever Surfer does (and he has an enormous bag of tricks so he can do some things) he better do it real quick, because otherwise a bloodlusted Superman destroys him.

@capall2: Haha, that's such bull-crap

Norrin has never shown the telepathic expertise, the strength, combat speed, physical durability or for that matter Shapeshifting like J'onn has.

And before you say that Surfer is FTL he is only FTL in travel speed (which might not even be the case in modern continuity since he enters hyperspace) his combat speed however is pitiful.

Case in point

Gallery

-Credit to Killemall

Surfer has versatility but it's not like J'onn doesn't have versatility either. Surfer isn't soloing anything stop fanwanking.

@hardcorefakes: To be fair Silver Surfer has only lost to Thor in Blood and Thunder when he was amped and bloodlusted every other time was basically a stalemate.

Does Martial Manhunter know Kung-Fu or something?

Thor sits back with a pint of beer while Silver Surfer kills both Superman & Martian Manhunter.

morals off surfer kills both of them by himself.

@sharkbearagator:

Lmao...Surfer is just as fast if not faster than all of them above, Surfer's greatest ability is his cosmic awarness and harnessing cosmic energy to do whatever he desires at the moment...morals off means he can simply blast his cosmic radiation to a no dodge zone (omni directional) and regarless of the environment...whether this is a physical, em, astral plane this is no contest here...

Oh boy the Surfer wank...

I'm going to give it to team 1 6/10

And the Surfer fans come in force, completely ignoring the fact that Surfer can't fight FTL.... which I think both Supes and MM can Speed Blitz.... also the faster Supes or MM is going the longer it will take for any kind of energy to affect them, until they hit FTL, at which point energy shouldn't affect them at all. Surfer's combat speed just isn't enough to hang. Plus he's supposed to be pretty pitiful at H2H relying entirely on his powers. He can win this, but it won't be near as easy as some say.

Done to death!! Team 2

@schillenger420: Ok so supes can go FTL but im pretty shure that he cant be going fast instantley it has to build up in that timesurfer could slow down time and get thor to hurt supes since magic affects him but for thor he would have a better chance as odinforce thor and while supes and thor fight surfer can fight MM but i dont know if hes vulnerable to mind control or not

I have no clue where ppl get this idea that Surfer doesn't have combat speed...lmao...ppl need to understand Surfer is capable of draining away Supes solar energy (even if it does not work instantly it would be enough to be a game changer pretty darn fast)...as for the MMH...in all serious what can he really do against the Surfer...anything he throws could be negated and thrown back with greater damage potential...yes he could also turn intangible however due to Surfers coamic awareness he would be still be able to hurt MMH with his cosmic energy...and the same can not be said about MMH...tp battle? Against the Surfer? Jon is awesome, as in better than prof x, not quite as invulnerable as the Surfer tho...

Which I already know. That's not what I was trying to say.

Surfer has at least 4 different ways to beat superman.

Yea he should

surfer has plenty of better speed feat than supes

Huh, surfer cant fight faster than light, You should check out his speed feats, but anyway if T and A could barely KO surfer supes prolly cant

Surfer could solo morals off, it wouldn't be PIS at all hes done better

@moonman78: I'm sure he has plenty of traveling speed feats, perhaps even some damn good reaction feats.... but when I look up his powers it specifies that once SS hit's lightspeed he goes into Hyperspace.... basically a different dimension.... therefor he can't go FTL without entering some other dimension. Supes and MM can go that fast, but stay in this dimension, and allowing them to actuallyr fight while going FTL. Surfer can't. Surfer has very few drawbacks/restrictions but that's one of them, and against guys like MM and Superman that's a biggy. Again Surfer CAN win this, but it's not near as easy as some seem to think. Whatever he does he better do it before Supes and MM build up that speed... cuzz once they're at it, all Surfer can really do is put some distance between em, come out of Hyperspace and try again.... which is entirely possible. Also...Poor Thor.

don't look up his powers and read what it says, actually check out what he has done in comics several different times, , surfer can travel THOUSANDS of times FTL and has done so many times, and has combat speed to match, the PC gives him this ability and almost any other you can name. I believe he fought red shift in a black hole at hundreds of time ftl