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#151 Edited by dorukesin (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_titan_lord said:

@dorukesin: Care to post them? :)

sure,but I can't post every speed steal that Wally has done

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you can count Walter as Wally

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#152 Edited by Extremis (3794 posts) - - Show Bio

@dorukesin said:

Wally still solostomps

@extremis said:

What's this "speed stealing" nonsense? Sounds like something a little kid made up.

If that's an actual ability that a character has, that's stupid.

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maybe not as unimpressive as I first thought, but it's still pretty blah

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#153 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen Surfer doesn't HAVE to tag him. He can kill him from the inside out, or scatter his atoms. Or any other number of things.

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#154 Posted by Frozen (21116 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen Surfer doesn't HAVE to tag him. He can kill him from the inside out, or scatter his atoms. Or any other number of things.

This takes the assumption that Surfer can do all that before Flash speed-steals and IMP's his.

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#155 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (8899 posts) - - Show Bio
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#156 Posted by DarkDefender (4074 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoustaco: Frankly I'd be fine with either. Averaging their feats out or just taking their high end feats and applying it. It jus pisses me off when somebody will do that for one character but call PIS/WIS when it comes to other characters.

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#157 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: To IMP, wally goes just under the speed of light, a speed surfer can react to. Wally's best bet is to try and blitz him dead, not IMP.

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#158 Edited by deactivated-5a7a162f64fe5 (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Huh.

Thor really doesn't have a dog in this fight. He is a non-factor here, because the other three outclass him in reaction speed so badly.

Unless we are turning PIS on in this fight?

At any rate...

In a random fight, with no prep, the Surfer should take this. Superman is close to light speed reaction feats wise.

The Surfer and Wally are both well beyond the speed of light when it comes to reaction feats. The key here is the Surfer will know what Wally's power set is in a random encounter (as he will Superman's power set)

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And before someone says, "Wally is faster than the Surfer", I would say the I think the Surfer is closer to Wally in reaction speed than people realize. After that, Surfer can use any number of powers to deal with Clark and Wally. Superman gets dropped (much like Kallark would've above) by a nice red solar radiation cock tail.

After that, the Surfer manipulates the speed force, a'la Captain Atom:

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I think the Silver Surfer solos this.

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#159 Posted by Killerwasp (17290 posts) - - Show Bio

thor and SS, ss carrying extremely hard.

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#160 Posted by VenomousTaco (1563 posts) - - Show Bio
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#161 Posted by deactivated-5a7a162f64fe5 (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Captain Atom > Silver Surfer, so that's moot.

:-)

I'd have to disagree. Nu Atom I think is the most powerful version of Atom, notwithstanding Monarch or some such.

The difference for me between the Surfer and Atom is the Surfer has better matter and energy/manipulation feats. Hence, the reason I believe Wally has the speed force manipulated by the Surfer.

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#162 Posted by VenomousTaco (1563 posts) - - Show Bio
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#163 Edited by Comicuser (2050 posts) - - Show Bio

wally solos

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#164 Posted by Doom_Phd (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyper_temporal_shift:

Feats showing me Surfer can tap into a extra dimensional power source he isn't familiar with and cut off someone from it who has feats and statements that he can't be?

Wally can't be cut off from the speed force not now not ever. So sorry

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#165 Edited by deactivated-5a7a162f64fe5 (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay. That's understandable. Do you have scans?

:-)

He has two feats for starting and speeding up evolutionary progress on a planetary level the first one, from the 1982 Silver Surfer one shot, is actually cited in the scans below:

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Below, the Surfer transforms an inorganic, sentient computer into a fleshly being and then into stone finally:

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To me, pretty top shelf matter manipulation, even manipulating organic life. I wanted to share these because I think most are familiar with his energy feats, like siphoning the gamma from Banner, vaporizing a hole through the side of a mountain, siphoning some of the energy of our sun, siphoning the energy of an attacking armada of space ships and absorbing the energy and using it to reignite a dying star, etc...

Of course, he has feats for using energy strikes on a devastating level, planetary in fact (destroying planets and what not).

There is actually a feat where he and Odin combine their powers to cleanse Beta Ray Bill of cancer and restore his powers without his prior mystical connection.

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There are others.

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#166 Posted by deactivated-5a7a162f64fe5 (776 posts) - - Show Bio

@doom_phd said:

Feats showing me Surfer can tap into a extra dimensional power source he isn't familiar with and cut off someone from it who has feats and statements that he can't be?

Wally can't be cut off from the speed force not now not ever. So sorry

Feats of the Surfer tapping into an extra dimensional power source he is not familiar with? Hmmm...

Well, doom_phd, are you aware that matter and energy manipulation is one of the Surfer's greatest strengths?

I do have a question for you, before I proceed to answer your question:

Are you telling me that Wally West has never been cut off from the speed force? What about having the speed force manipulated like Barry above? Has that ever happened to Wally before? Has anyone ever been able to do that to Wally? What about having his vibrational frequencies disrupted? Has that ever happened to any of the speedsters?

Just curious what your thoughts are.

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#167 Edited by HeeeelpMeeeee (43 posts) - - Show Bio

@postacrat said:

Why do people constantly bring up feats for Silver Surfer and Thor that they either rarely do, or they could theoretically do?

I've never seen flash fly before this thread and have a lot of Flash/JLA comics.

Flash fanboys seem to forget Captain Cold, Green Arrow, Deathstroke, maybe Batman too can beat flash. It's ridiculous how overrated he is here. If Flash loses his concentration, gets a cramp or if he's on a slippery surface he's useless.

Marvel team win this fight.

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#168 Posted by Frozen (21116 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: To IMP, wally goes just under the speed of light, a speed surfer can react to. Wally's best bet is to try and blitz him dead, not IMP.

No, Wally is massively FTL.

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#169 Edited by Doom_Phd (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyper_temporal_shift:

Are you aware how many people in DC and marvel can do matter manipulation? Lol

Surfer ain't special and if we really get down to it he is really one of the weakest with the power that he barely use in the manner you are theoretically suggesting

Still matter manipulation doesn't get you in the speed force since you surfer isn't some high level reality warper his fans are trying to make him out to be.

Barry and Wally are two different entities when it comes to speed force in pre 52. Barry is the speed force and Wally is the one most in tune with it and you can't break him off. This of course in ignoring that flash has a rogue that warp reality ( surfer isn't the only one ) and high level geniuses who can't even get into the speed force with out the help of a flash like speedster.

Before I give you obvious no for the vibrational frequencies Schtick, do surfer have the speed force formulae? Or you believe cosmic awareness is going to help him ? Like it help him when geniuses like Doom or Mr. fantastic prep against him? I guess not. No vibrational frequency isn't going to help a non PIS Flash.

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#170 Posted by GhostRider2 (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

@doom_phd: better read more, Surfer uses matter and energy manipulation and he is one of the best herald level character when it comes to using matter and energy manipulation if you are talking about that.In short: planetary level telepathy, matter manipulation and planetary level+ energy( he could easily destroy a planet) so to say he is the weakest it's dumb.

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#171 Edited by Doom_Phd (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

I can think of 100+ people who are better than him at all the things you listed one of them being the Flash. So yeah he is a push over.

Flash is an energy manipulator as well did you know that?

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#172 Posted by GhostRider2 (4935 posts) - - Show Bio
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#173 Posted by Appzashok (1437 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC wins as long as Thor gets replaced by someone able to keep up with rest of these guys.

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#174 Edited by deactivated-5a7a162f64fe5 (776 posts) - - Show Bio

@doom_phd said:

Are you aware how many people in DC and marvel can do matter manipulation? Lol

Surfer ain't special and if we really get down to it he is really one of the weakest with the power that he barely use in the manner you are theoretically suggesting

Still matter manipulation doesn't get you in the speed force since you surfer isn't some high level reality warper his fans are trying to make him out to be.

As to your response, GhostRider2 sums it up nicely:

@ghostrider2 said:

better read more, Surfer uses matter and energy manipulation and he is one of the best herald level character when it comes to using matter and energy manipulation if you are talking about that.In short: planetary level telepathy, matter manipulation and planetary level+ energy( he could easily destroy a planet) so to say he is the weakest it's dumb.

As to the rest...

said:

Are you aware how many people in DC and marvel can do matter manipulation? Lol

Surfer ain't special and if we really get down to it he is really one of the weakest with the power that he barely use in the manner you are theoretically suggesting

Still matter manipulation doesn't get you in the speed force since you surfer isn't some high level reality warper his fans are trying to make him out to be.

Barry and Wally are two different entities when it comes to speed force in pre 52. Barry is the speed force and Wally is the one most in tune with it and you can't break him off. This of course in ignoring that flash has a rogue that warp reality ( surfer isn't the only one ) and high level geniuses who can't even get into the speed force with out the help of a flash like speedster.

Before I give you obvious no for the vibrational frequencies Schtick, do surfer have the speed force formulae? Or you believe cosmic awareness is going to help him ? Like it help him when geniuses like Doom or Mr. fantastic prep against him? I guess not. No vibrational frequency isn't going to help a non PIS Flash.

I am aware of some of the people in Marvel and DC that can matter and energy manipulate. One of them is Captain Atom

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Above, CA manipulates the speed force of Barry Allan whom you said, "....Barry is the speed force ...".

Yet despite being the speed force, he had it manipulated by Captain Atom whose feats are less than Surfer's when it comes to matter and energy manipulation.

I think you are woefully missing the mark on this one.

May I politely suggest that you read some Silver Surfer before you make baseless claims about the character.

And if you haven't noticed my avatar, I've read much Wally West and Zoom. I'm familiar with Wally can and can't do.

And you seem to be saying Wally has never had the speed force manipulated against him? Are you saying Barry can have it done against him, but Wally (who is not the speed force) can't.

I disagree.

@ghostrider2: is this guy seriously placing the Flash on par with the Surfer as an energy manipulator?

Okay then. Tells me everything I need to know.

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#175 Posted by HULKSMASHLITTLEMAN (168 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash solos

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#176 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Dc

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#177 Posted by ManInTheMountain (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it possible for Surfer to use cosmic awareness to manipulate the Speed force? Because otherwise DC team takes this

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#178 Posted by Emmanuelalake (428 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver surfer would take care of both Superman and Flash

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#179 Posted by AbstractRaze (2548 posts) - - Show Bio

The DC team would win with relative low to none difficulties.

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#180 Posted by ODIN619360 (2608 posts) - - Show Bio

I Think Team DC have as good a Chance.

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#181 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio
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#182 Posted by AbelHsu (3533 posts) - - Show Bio

Siding with team 2 here.

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#183 Posted by KrleAvenger (26261 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally beats Surfer and Superman beats Thor. Or, Wally stomps Thor, Surfer stomps Superman and then Wally beats Surfer.

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#184 Posted by DeathUnlimited1 (146 posts) - - Show Bio

SS transmutes them both into glass and then has a drink with Thor

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#185 Posted by ginman333 (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer asks Thor to kindly remove himself from the battlefield.

Surfer transmutes everything around flash to a frictionless material, no different than the JL Buster armor did.

Surfer ends superman by 1) red sun radiation; 2) the radiation frequency from kryponite; and/or 3) He just hits him with enough energy attacks that superman dies.

Thor is sad he was not able to help. He is now unworthy and commits ritualistic suicide.

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#186 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of these answers make me think that some of you don't even know what these characters power sets are.

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#187 Posted by blackpantherisb (6959 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman drops Thor rather quickly, and Surfer takes out Wally in a good fight, then Norrin fodderizes Superman.

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#188 Edited by Void-X (446 posts) - - Show Bio

So basically speedy characters vs characters with no speed. Hmm, let me think (sarcasm free of charge).

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#189 Posted by destinyman75 (13938 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at this speed wank ^^^ Thor is certainly more then capable of taking out Clark while surfer does the same to flash geez smells rank in here...

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#190 Posted by reaverlation (25837 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at this speed wank ^^^ Thor is certainly more then capable of taking out Clark while surfer does the same to flash geez smells rank in here...

Thor can hurt Superman and Superman can hurt Thor. Difference is that Superman is massively faster than Thor and could take him out before Thor does anything. Only thing preventing that is that both are in character.

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#191 Posted by destinyman75 (13938 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: well then there you go so we don't have to wade through the so called ten thousand punches stuff that he wouldn't do anyway. Good so can we get to the real debates, cause I didn't want to dredge up in character scans vs slower then Thor like the original doomsday fight...which in character he was tagged often and stupidly in character allowed himself to be hit because he is cocky...

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#192 Posted by hulksmash134 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegrayghost: You're stupid if you think Surfer is faster than Wally, Barry maybe but not Wally; he's fast but not THAT fast.

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#193 Posted by TheKinfing (11695 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally & Clark.

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#194 Posted by King-Ragnar (3740 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is kind of a weak link here.

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#195 Posted by Kevd4wg (12512 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1, just in-character kinda makes Norrin suck compared to Wally

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#196 Posted by Supermanthor (16298 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#197 Edited by RampageTheFirst (7332 posts) - - Show Bio