Supergirl vs Palpatine and Luke Skywalker

Composite feats allowed

Round 1 - morals off

Round 2 - SG gets Darkseid(no amps), Sidious and Luke get Abeloth

bmp

team with high difficulty

I would like to see proof that these two can react to a Kryptonian first and foremost.

When I had a Superman vs Palpatine CAV in the past I remember seeing quotes from the Revenge of the Sith novelisation where Anakin supposedly perceived relativistic star fighters yet he couldn't see Palpatine and Mace Windu clearly when they fought. That's the best case scenario though. They have no chance of overpowering Kara but an argument might be made for Palpatine's Force Storm or Luke's TP. Otherwise Supergirl wins.

Nah, there's loads of other sh!t about Luke's and Sidious' speed that suggests anywhere from relativistic to FTL combat speed and reflexes.

Anyways, the duos combined might could honestly overwhelm her. And they definitely take round 2 if it's a full-powered Abeloth.

How much are we talking then? Been years since I had that CAV.

Abeloth is where Palpatine pulled off his Force Storm IIRC?

Well there's a lot of quotes. Honestly, speed in Star Wars is insanely inconsistent. But assuming the high-end of the spectrum, applies, then there's loads of evidence for Luke or Sheev approaching light speed or surpassing it. I'd be willing to make a case for the SW team if you'll indulge me.

Anyways, Abeloth isn't where Sidious pulled off his Force Storm. He doesn't need a specific place to pull off a Force Storm. Abeloth is a god-like, planet-eating, galaxy-devastating entity that spawned as a corrupt counterpart to the Father, the most powerful of the Star Wars Celestials.

Yeah that's what I mean, speed in Star Wars EU material is very inconsistent. Sometimes the best Jedi can move at hypersonic-sub relativistic speeds and other times they can barely break FTE speeds. If it's composite feats that lessens the effect but they're all over the place. Not sure if Luke has actually ever broken lightspeed, Supergirl hasn't outside of one instance.

Ah that's my mistake. Not sure what the point of adding Abeloth in is then, he crushes Round 2 alone.

I don't know much about Supergirl, but from what I do know, assuming this is GM Luke, the team wins, like, 9/10 times.

Darkseid solos the team and Abeloth, though, mid-difficulty.

I think he has... several times, actually.

Also, Abeloth's a she. And the OP might be referring to her avatars that Luke and Krayt fought. Those avatars would get murked by Darkseid, tho.

Reasoning?

@miraclecomeback: Luke and Palpatine individually could pose a serious threat to someone like Superman, in my opinion. Combining forces and pitting them against someone weaker is just... well, you get the idea.

The second round is simply Darkseid vs. Abeloth really, as both can more or less oneshot Supergirl, Luke, and Palpatine. That being said, Darkseid can straight up bust galaxies with his Omega Beams with little to no trouble. Abeloth is a galaxy buster only by speculation. Also, I don't see what's stopping a single blast of his Omega Beams from just incinerating Abeloth. To be fair, I'm not extremely well versed in DC characters so I could just be overestimating Darkseid, but I'm fairly certain I'm right.

I think Luke and Sidious win. If the Force is considered magic, it is an easy win. Difficult if it is not. With Abeloth it is a stomp. There is nothing Darkseid or Supergirl could do.

Luke and Sidious win. Abeloth wrecks round 2.

I don't think people actually read Darkseids comics on this forum.

Luke, and Sidious take this through, TP for the first round.

If it's a composite Darkseid, he annihilates. abeloth or not(supposedly he is multiversal)

Team for round 1

depends on which version of darkseid round 2

No.

@lord_sauron: No PC. Only new 52 & without any sort of extra powers

DC stomps both rounds

Supergirl

Luke doesn't have a single quantifiable speed feat that puts him objectively anywhere near light speed or let alone a fraction of it. High hyper sonic motions. Dilated time seeing. Immeasurable faster than the eye blurs sure. But that's it. As for reflexes... Look up what the term biological reflex means because it's not what people think it does. Force sensitives have the uncanny ability to respond faster to (or better yet substitute) for their own due precognition and force sense which doesn't exactly translate to reactionary quickness or perception timing. Why people continue to regurgitate this same nonsense without an iota of evidence is beyond me.

@scotticusrex: @soimme: reasons

@miraclecomeback: Sidious and Luke cant bring her down.

Darkseid vaporises them with his omega beams.

@soimme: can you be more specific

I think Luke has been scaled to Planet level TK at this point, and Palps is easily Fleet level so they could do some damage with that. Palpatine also has rather powerful TP, with better showings than Luke IMO, and Sith Sorcery (an arcane application of the force, similar to magic) which could have debilitating effects on Supergirl if he gets it off

Its also worth noting that Sids can flat out BFR her with force storms as well.

@ordeith said:

They don't have to be able to bring her down. There is a reasonable argument to say that Sids can simply solo by chucking her through a wormhole

Luke and Sidious stomp

@decaf_wizard: Good luck doing that when she can blitz

@thekinfing: Why ?

Not sure about round two not familiar with That version of a cosmic force or how he compares to Darksied. Round one however I must give to Kara. Yes the force users are really fast but Kara is still faster. With her Frost breath, and eye beams she can take them out, they might get in some blocks with sabers but they won't be able to block forever while she's flying around and blasting them. She's also durable enough to take the sabers. Interesting match though

My problem with that novel is that it also has Obi-Wan vanishing from Dooku's sight with sheer speed and Dooku having difficulty seeing Anakin while fighting him. From what I can tell from that novel the whole don't trust your eyes, trust the force stuff Ben Kenobi was talking about in A New Hope was taken to the extreme, with sight being far behind the force as their main sense in combat. Though Wollfmyth is someone I'm sure to check up on for things like this.

@alphaq: Well there's some circumstances behind your two examples:

1. When Dooku didn't see Obi-Wan, he was already exhausted, out-of-balance and he was mostly within his own head thinking about sh!t that he barely noticed Obi-Wan as per the text; This is not to mention that Kenobi caught him by surprise
2. Dooku actually percieved Anakin just fine, Anakin simply moved his blade so fast it's glow engulfed Dooku's vision but given how up close and personal they were fighting, that'd make sense
3. Even assuming it was Precog or Force Vision, they still see the attack coming, just not physically and their bodies react and move in tandem with what they see, thus they can still react to Supergirl just fine

No she can't. Not with Luke being a teleporter, both of them being nigh relativistic in terms of combat and reaction, both having pre-cog and force storms being large enough to scour the life from entire planets

Try again when you know Star Wars

Prove these things

Nanosecond reaction times

Luke raised his lightsaber and grasped the Sith in the Force, intending to bring him tumbling into an ignited blade … then felt something catch him across the ankles. He had no time to be astonished, barely even the nanosecond required to realize Abeloth had survived her fall into the cleft.

Most of the rest is scaling, which @wollfmyth209 could explain better than me

Lot of wank going on here.

You might wanna quote things in full before post blurbs in intent to deceive people. Also read the details

Luke raised his lightsaber and grasped the Sith in the Force, intending to bring him tumbling into an ignited blade … then felt something catch him across the ankles. He had no time to be astonished, barely even the nanosecond required to realize Abeloth had survived her fall into the cleft. He merely felt his feet shoot away and found himself dropping face first. Luke tucked his chin and managed to flip on his back before he hit the stone floor. Abeloth was on top of him,

Fate of the Jedi : Vortex

The text clearly indicates that Luke had zero time to react and not even a "nanosecond" (which is the case of Star Wars more literary hyperbole expression for a short amount of time) to realize what was happening. And the latter event was sweep under his feet and barely tuck n rolled on his back. Reactionary time implies that he countered or responded her move in the timeframe of a nanosecond which he would've been able to given he possess the force and a saber, but he didn't because she was too fast for him. How does Luke get attributed light speed reaction time for this failure?

First round Kara imo, second Starwars because of Abeloth

0. Actually I looked up the quote and Anakin mentioned that he could feel the blows in the Force.

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still abit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back thedarkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade,that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: anoblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to bedozens of swords slashing in all directions at once. The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force.

1. Kenobi caught him by surprise and Dooku had begun to expend his stamina but he wasn't exhausted yet, he was moderately tired at worst. Up until the duo showed their true abilities Dooku believed he was dominating so badly they couldn't even comprehend it, calling them pathetic and the dual simple and even believed he could've killed them as easily as Maul killed the Black Sun. And he had more force reserves to draw on later when he knocked Kenobi away with the Force, so he wasn't going all out. But really the point is Kenobi is about as fast as Dooku and Dooku at one stage couldn't see him due to speed, even though he continued to keep up. Not saying that Obi was to Dooku what Palps was to Anakin but it shows how reaction and combat speed come before sight in this novel.

He drew their strikes to his parries, and drove his own ripostes with thrusts of dark power that subtly altered the Jedi's balance and disrupted their timing. He could have slaughtered both of them as casually as that creature Maul had destroyed thevigos of the Black Sun.

However, only one death was in his plan, and this dumb-show was becoming tiresome. Not to mention tiring. The darkpower that served him went only so far, and he was, after all, not a young man.

He leaned into a thrust at Kenobi's gut that the Jedi Masterdeflected with a rising parry, bringing them chest-to-chest,blades flaring, locked together a handbreadth from each other's

throats.

"Your moves are too slow, Kenobi. Too predictable. You'll have to do better."

Kenobi's response to this friendly word was to regard him with a twinkle of gentle amusement in his eye. "Very well, then," the Jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.

And in the space where Kenobi's chest had been was now only the blue lightning of Skywalker's blade driving straight for Dooku's heart.

Only a desperate whirl to one side made what would have been a smoking hole in his chest into a line of scorch through his armorweave cloak. Dooku thought,What?

2. Dooku mentions the haze being created as Anakin got faster and faster so it had to do with Ani fighting harder and harder as the fight continued, distance was only part of it. Actually, Obi is also mentioned to make a "blinding defensive velocity", so that's two example of someone's blade appearing too fast for the eyes.

3. I'm not going to comment on that, since I don't know how fast Supergirl is, unfortunately.

@alphaq: Actually I looked up the quote and Anakin mentioned that he could feel the blows in the Force.

Yeah, but this isn't Anakin who was amplifying his reflexes via the Force, just using Force sense.

Kenobi caught him by surprise and Dooku had begun to expend his stamina but he wasn't exhausted yet, he was moderately tired at worst. Up until the duo showed their true abilities Dooku believed he was dominating so badly they couldn't even comprehend it, calling them pathetic and the dual simple and even believed he could've killed them as easily as Maul killed the Black Sun. And he had more force reserves to draw on later when he knocked Kenobi away with the Force, so he wasn't going all out. But really the point is Kenobi is about as fast as Dooku and Dooku at one stage couldn't see him due to speed, even though he continued to keep up. Not saying that Obi was to Dooku what Palps was to Anakin but it shows how reaction and combat speed come before sight in this novel.

Eh, Dooku at this point was starting to waste a good portion of his stamina. The fact that Dooku wasn't going all-out further aids his side here as he didn't amplify his reflexes to their max because he thought it'd be an easy win. And, the funny thing is, the quote never states vanished from Dooku's perspective, he just seems to have vanished. It could be from a narrative, or reader perspective.

Dooku mentions the haze being created as Anakin got faster and faster so it had to do with Ani fighting harder and harder as the fight continued, distance was only part of it. Actually, Obi is also mentioned to make a "blinding defensive velocity", so that's two example of someone's blade appearing too fast for the eyes.

Exactly, but he still saw them fight, no matter how fast they moved. They moved in blurs, sure, but Dooku's blade moved like a "quick red serpant" or "swift red lace" from Yoda's perspective. I'm to assume Dooku was overwhelming Yoda with speed?

@decaf_wizard: Kara can move at the speed of light.