Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann vs Zeno

VS

WHO WINS?

Zeno dies.

Been done mate. STTGL speedblitz and kills the little kid.

@inside: Stop dragging debates from AnimeVice over here. Zeno erases. There is no debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDphUib5iG4&feature=youtu.be&t=4m36s

STTGL is 10 to 11 dimensional. He absolutely murderstomps composite Dragon Ball, even including non-canon stuff

This. At this point, even normal TTGL is above the whole DBS-verse.

@tabbender: Actually, STTGL has no way to kill Shin Budokai Janemba.

Zeno dies horribly. With the feats Zeno has at the moment he is either gonna stomp his opponent for being to weak or die horribly because his opponent is multiversal as well but also has better speed feats and hax to go with

@death2heretics: He could just... y'know... step on him. He could potentially destroy hell and heaven both with a thunderclap.

@tabbender: Oh quite BS'ing. Nothing about that is even remotely accurate. Nvm claiming that TTGL is above these kinds of entities. Beerus murderstomps the whole series, let alone the kid that can hand wave the multiverse out of existence.

STTGL curbstomps. The Giga Drill alone is 100 times larger then one Universe. Zeno with his 12 Universes and as 4-Dimensional Being dies horribly.

@reikai: he can hand-wave a universe out of existence.

The things that come after a universe are a multiverse, which takes a whole nother level of power, Zeno hasn't demonstrated this ability.

And a dimension, which Zeno definitely can't erase.

STTGL has nearly destroyed a dimension during his fight against the anti-spiral.

Explain yourselves. A 10 to 11 dimensional being.

Anyone who even tickled the Anti-Spiral solos hard.

@tabbender: How is he a 10-dimensional being?

The Anti-Spiral created a realm between the fabrics of the 10th and the 11th dimensional planes, STTGL scales to him.

@inside: He would only destroy his body. Shin Budokai Janemba can reform from evil energies.

STTGL blitzes and stomps. LOL at Beerus beating STTGL.

Lol Zeno and the whole Db verse get one shot... For the Dragonball fans, this fight is like someone come with Beerus vs Natsu (FairyTail) and tell that Natsu can match Beerus... Dont need this bs here, easy win for STTGL.

@tabbender: Just to let you know, being a higher dimensional being doesn't automatcally grant you the win. Some lower dimensional being have defeated higher dimensional beings.

@death2heretics: (i'm guessing you failed the tag) He would destroy the very fabric of existence on an extradimensional scale, there's absolutely no way Janemba can regen from that, that would be a NLF to assume he can.

@tabbender: Lol so you're saying STTGL is multiversal?

Because PIS. PIS isn't being applied in vs debating as far as i'm aware.

High Complex Multiversal, actually. Multiversal is downplay.

Ahh VSB, you never cease to amaze me.

@tabbender: Lmao, let me guess.. using vsbattles wiki huh?

Only their tiering system. Tho they did recently upgrade the Anti-Spiral, i knew he was extradimensional far prior to their upgrade

Well, that is the point that makes VSBattle inadequate. They put Tiering and Dimensional Level in the Same Point.

STTGL can create a Giga Drill who is 100 times larger then the Universe and those Universes based on STTGL are 10 or 11 dimensional.

That is not Complex-Multiversal. but his dimensional Level is a equal structure do you need to harm STTGL. It doesen´t mean he can destroy a Complex-Multiverse, but only one who is or has complex-multiversal abilitys on a 10 or 11-dimensional Scale or higher can destroy STTGL. So still, Zeno dies horribly with his only 4-D Existance. He can´t do anything, but STTGL is larger then a Universe and his Drill influences a Range above 100 Universes in a higher Scale. No chance, that Zeno can survive an Attack.

Vs Battle has some good Informations about Charakters and why the came to some strange Points, but there are many things speculated or via Fancalcs. The Tierung-System is Trash, but the dimensional Scale is Canon.

It's not that Anti-Spiral and STTGL are X-dimensional beings, and are therefore multiversal and therefore wins.

It's that Anti-Spiral created a multiverse with countless universes, proving that he can manipulate multiversal-level energies. Can he exert that offensively? Yes, Anti-Spiral fired a blast that was said to be equivalent to the energy to create universes (the name Infinite Big Bang Storm attack refers to the power to create infinite Big bangs) , and it was this attack that TTGL absorbed to transform into the multiversal-level STTGL. And it just so happens that all of this is backed up by them being 10-dimensional beings (or at least the Super Spiral space that both of them can create is 10-dimensional).

Anyway STTGL is higher up on the speed and multiversal scale than Zeno.

@tabbender: Their tiering system is shit. Just to let you know. Unless you think Daredevil is town level or Thor is at Solar system level.

STTGL is Multi-universal.

@inside: Traveling to another dimension doesn't make them that level. Nvm that being in that dimension is what made them powerful to begin with and only pushed them to Universal level at best. Nvm Zeno has erased multiple universes at the same time, and a universe is composed of these dimensional layers. Nvm the fact that it includes the Celestial Plane (Heaven), the Underworld (Hell) and the Demon World associated with that Universe. And each universe has their own.

@caocao: Well STTGL harmed the Anti-Spiral, who was omnipresent in a realm that he created between the fabrics of the 10th and 11th dimensional planes, so i'd say he definitely have 10 dimensional to 11 dimensional power

A few staff from VsB here to wank with their dimensions fanfic bs tbh

Dont tell them that on vsb they will ban you doe

Tiering system =/= character ratings. Their character ratings are trash, their tiering system is the only one that makes sense to me. Multi-Universal is massive downplay for a character that affected 10 to 11 dimensional space.

Which is still only 3 dimensional. The Anti-Spiral literally created a realm between the fabrics of the 10th and the 11th dimensional planes, that's self explanatory really.

You do realize that i clearly don't support VSBW as a whole right ? Their character ratings are trash for almost everything. Especially Undertale, Touhou Project and MS Paint Adventures. I'm just using the only tiering system that actually makes sense.

Agreed. I want only say that someone who is a higherdimensional being not automatically the same Tiering-Level. The Tiering Level shows the destructive and the create Output from the Charakters, not or not alone that the Charakter is a higher being. At least, you need other 10 - 11dimensional Beings to kill STTGL, or by Tiering someone who is Complex Multiverse. I don´t think STTGL can destroy a complex Multiverse, if we take the Giga Drill for Example and his limited size. But everything around 100 of 10 or 11 dimensional Universes and below shouldn´t be a Match for STTGL.

Ignore. Read his posts and you know, that he isn´t in a position to judge.

@tabbender: I don't think you understand what i was trying to say but whatever. STTGL isn't High complex multiversal, lol.

Proof ? Because he kind of literally have a HCM feat.

Zeno has a high enough attack potency to not only destroy 12 whole Universes, but even their ethereal dimensions like Otherworld which encompasses Heaven and Hell. STTGL ain't soloing anything.

@namesclassified: I'm fairly sure none of this is even close to STTGL level.

@namesclassified:

Nonsense, that dont put Zeno to that lvl from STTGL...

He even hasnt the reaction speed to Keep up with Dyspos Lightspeed+...

The most of the Dbs fans come with baseless arguments, right now Zeno is at best T2C lvl with worst reaction speed (fact). How he even keep up with STTGL? Easy win for STTGL...

Those kind of Dimensions aren´t higherdimensional Systems. All of them are dependent by one Time Space Continuum. A higherdimensional System is more comparable with the Past, Presence, and Future in more different Timelines.

Btw. The Dragon Ball Verse is Multiverse if we take the example that Zeno erased the Future, but still exist the Presence. Zeno erased the whole Timeline, but the Presence still exist. But there is a disadvantage: Zeno by himself isn´t multiversal, because in every Space-Time-Dimension in the Multiverse is another Zeno.

I don't see why destroying 12 universes compares to destroying actual dimensions, not "ethereal dimensions".

STTGL goes beyond stomping existence.

@tabbender: And I'm quite certain you're full of crap and the fact the Anti-Spiral were never omnipotent in any sense and were only utilizing a higher-dimension in order to keep other species from evolving. Had the Anti-Spiral actually been omnipotent in any capacity, they could've absolutely controlled every dimensional tier below them and prevented Simon and the crew from even existing.

Fact is, they don't have that power nor the kind of control to do such things. Frankly speaking, nothing in the GL series shows actual high-dimensional control of any kind. And claiming that just traveling to them makes them automatically that level is just absurd. Really, Rick is technically more worthy of being called such because of actual scientific theory.

@jashro44:

@reikai: The fact that Lordgenome actually states that they're higher-dimensional beings isn't enough?

I guess he was just lying for the hell of it.

Also, spiral energy is a multiversal force:

Furthermore, Anti-Spiral did control pretty much everything......except the action's of Gurren Lagann and it's crew, why would it matter to a being that immense what happened on some random world?

He created a multi-dimensional labyrinth out of nowhere. Keep in mind, most of this is just TTGL's feats, and TTGL doesn't compare in any way, shape, or form to STTGL.

STTGL and TTGL also have probability alteration, meaning that they can literally alter the probability of ANY attack to miss, or straight up not work.

Basically, if Zeno decides to squish them, and the probability to hit them is 100% and to destroy the universe is also 100%, STTGL changes that probability to 0%.

They were able to use this ability without even noticing it too, meaning that they were altering the probability of all things without even knowing it.

So, basically, they can nullify any and all attacks from Zeno, whether it be a "squish" or whatever, and change it so their attacks will always work on Zeno, they can alter probability endlessly.

TTGL alone was able to tank a big bang that was multiplied further by the Anti-Spiral's own power.

@reikai: I'm pretty affirmative i didn't claim anyone to be omnipotent.

They literally created a realm between the membranes of the 10th and the 11th dimensional planes, that's quite a bunch of control over them yes.

STTGL is far greater than Zeno that shouldn't even need to be debated anyone who's seen the show would know that.

This thread is going to be a shit show though, DB fans can't take a L.

This has been done to death. Zeno has trouble keeping up with characters who are by no means on the level of even TTGL when it comes to speed. He gets blitzed and demolished by a single Giga Drill Break.