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#1 Edited by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

BAsically the title.

The giant mech takes on the chaos gods @40k verse(the location Is in the warp)

the first round is the mecha fighting them, 1on1 gauntlet style

Round2: it takes them all on at once

how would this play-out?

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#2 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

There are four chaos gods

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#3 Posted by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, seeing as the Chaos Gods can barely influence the 40k verse in this significant of a fashion without extremely exceptional circumstances, STTGL kinda wins very easily

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#4 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

Is the “multiversal” labyrinth in TTGL really a multiverse? Or just some wank troll bs spouting out of the TTGL tards?

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#6 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (3203 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless this takes place in the warp or the warhammer God's respective dimensions I can't see how they win this.

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#7 Posted by ChaosKnight75 (897 posts) - - Show Bio

STTGL steps on them without even noticing

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#8 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75: not if their in the warp, their not. The gods can arguably manipulate the pilots by letting them kill themselves

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#9 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles: yeah I updated the location, made the thread in a rush earlier that it must have slipped my mind

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#10 Posted by B3rnkastel (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Decaf has it right, and there's more going against the idea of the Chaos Gods being "multiversal" than there is supporting them being at that level. SSTGL takes the whole verse including the GeoM, considering the sheer size of it would dwarf them immensely and could figuratively, and literally, stomp.

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#11 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@b3rnkastel: Most of them are abstracts so “stomping” them wont do anything unless they can affect abstracts

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#12 Posted by B3rnkastel (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@hughneutron: Nothing to say that SSTGL can harm abstracts, but they can't do anything to it either, essentially making this a stalemate of sorts.

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#13 Posted by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

>Chaos Gods are abstract level

No. Even if they were, they can't affect the 40k universe at large anyways

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#14 Edited by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: are you one of those ttgl wankers? Topkek STTGL doesnt have feats supporting it affecting abstract concepts and by on-panel feats they didnt destroy the universe at all.

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#15 Edited by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

@hughneutron said:

@decaf_wizard: are you one of those ttgl wankers? Topkek STTGL doesnt have feats supporting it affecting abstract concepts and by on-panel feats they didnt destroy the universe at all.

Im one of the biggest 40k wankers on these fourms. lol

Ask me or @wut

The chaos gods are not abstract level. Not within the confines of the 40k verse

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#16 Edited by Wut (6892 posts) - - Show Bio

@b3rnkastel said:

Decaf has it right, and there's more going against the idea of the Chaos Gods being "multiversal" than there is supporting them being at that level. SSTGL takes the whole verse including the GeoM, considering the sheer size of it would dwarf them immensely and could figuratively, and literally, stomp.

Like what?

EDIT: To avoid confusion, I am going to clarify:

They are multiversal. That isn't debatable. They can 'exist' [regardless of the size of said existence] in two different universes [Materium and Immaterium] and do actions within two different universes, therefor, they are multiversal. The only thing that, I would assume, you are trying to establish is they have no real contact with universes besides the 40k one.

So, on that ground, what evidence do you have to support the idea they are limited only to 40k's universe in their interactions that is so much more compelling then against it, also, on this, what feats and evidence are you using for the side promoting the idea that they do that you believe is outdone.

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#17 Posted by JOVIOLMA (4395 posts) - - Show Bio

Giga Drill Break GG.

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#18 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

STTGL pierces them as easily as his drill pierces the heavens.

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#19 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: admitting that ur a wanker for one side isnt really something to brag about

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#20 Edited by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (3203 posts) - - Show Bio

@hughneutron: Hmm. In the warp it's tough to say. On a pure combat basis and by feats TTGL is superior. But if we take lore into account it may be different. Especially if the different aspects of the Chaos Gods can effect the pilot. But I'm not sure they can.

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#22 Posted by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: admitting that ur a wanker for one side isnt really something to brag about

Except when I am arguing against the side I am a massive fan of........

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#23 Edited by Jmarshmallow (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

@hughneutron: Actually yeah they kinda can. The Anti-Spirals are more or less abstract beings. They’re basically a concept rather than an actual entity.

Not to mention that “they’re abstract” is a poor argument when they don’t have feats even somewhat comparable to STTGL. Just being an abstract is meaningless by itself without feats to back it up.

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#24 Edited by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: did you not understand what I wrote...... doesnt surprise me about some of the viners here

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#25 Posted by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Edited by Sungsam (1838 posts) - - Show Bio

Can everyone just to stick freaking feats instead of philosophy abstract argument bullshit?

Bring up durability feats, has the Warhammer Gods tanked attacks on the level or beyond attack feats of STTGL or vice versa? That's what I want to know. I don't care about 'labels' that are supposed to make characters more interesting than not.

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#27 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13568 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by Jmarshmallow (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam: Pardon me if I’m wrong, but “everybody” doesn’t seem to be the issue here. There’s only one guy using the word abstract as an argument.

The aggression seems unwarranted.

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#29 Edited by B3rnkastel (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: What the hell are you on about? Not only is that so far away from the actual definition of multiversal that it's laughable, but the closest thing any of them have that even hints at multiversal power comes from this:

"I hear you, and I defy you." Horus' words echoed down the aeons, coming from a place beyond time and space. "This universe will burn as countless others have burned before it! There can be no victory against Chaos."

Which in itself doesn't mean shit considering it's nothing more than a statement, and Horus is a liar. What you had described does not even come close to being multiversal,since multiversal in battle board definitions,is about being capable of destroying an infinite set of infinitely sized universes.

To follow up with this, no one in 40k is multi universal,especially not the GeoM,who often gets brought up alongside the Chaos Gods. Why?

  • He doesn't have any feats or showings to put him at this level or anywhere even close to it.
  • He needed help from fucking Space Marines and Primarchs to conquer a whole galaxy.

What is actually supporting the 40k Chaos Gods being multiversal btw? Me and many others have debunked that claim across various sites several times, since it's not true, but I'd be interested to see what you could present.

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#30 Edited by Wut (6892 posts) - - Show Bio

@b3rnkastel: What the hell are you on about? Not only is that so far away from the actual definition of multiversal that it's laughable, but the closest thing any of them have that even hints at multiversal power comes from this:

"I hear you, and I defy you." Horus' words echoed down the aeons, coming from a place beyond time and space. "This universe will burn as countless others have burned before it! There can be no victory against Chaos."

Which in itself doesn't mean shit considering it's nothing more than a statement, and Horus is a liar. What you had described does not even come close to being multiversal,since multiversal in battle board definitions,is about being capable of destroying an infinite set of infinitely sized universes.

That isn't what multiversal is. People on this site love buzzwords. You are vastly overestimating the qualifications to be a multiversal entity. You are confusing Busting with Multiversal status.

That is it? That is the only feat you have? Are... are you serious? When you made that bold claim of there being more evidence to support the contrary, I was expecting more out of you. I shouldn't have. But I did. So, what is it you are even debating? You aren't debating multiversal power. You are debating Busting. Is that what you are debating? Their ability to bust a universe? Not their ability to exist and act within multiple universes at once?

To follow up with this, no one in 40k is multi universal,especially not the GeoM,who often gets brought up alongside the Chaos Gods. Why?

  • He doesn't have any feats or showings to put him at this level or anywhere even close to it.
  • He needed help from fucking Space Marines and Primarchs to conquer a whole galaxy.

What is actually supporting the 40k Chaos Gods being multiversal btw? Me and many others have debunked that claim across various sites several times, since it's not true, but I'd be interested to see what you could present.

GEoM isn't relevant in a discussion with Chaos Gods in the Warp. I am going to continue with the assumption that you are referring to Busting power, and not, to them being able to exist and interact in multiple universes as such, I will provide those feats. Mind, I never said I believe they can bust such universes, although them existing and acting in many such verses outside the 40k universe, is something I believe, but I do love when people make bold claims and seeing if they can prove them. Usually they can't and they just get super defensive, but here are some relevant quotes:

"Had the Chaos Gods worked in unison in the wake of that terrible event, it is doubtless that realspace would have been utterly consumed by the sprawling madness of the warp. Yet true to their nature, the dark brothers saw the anarchy as an opportunity to fulfil their own agendas: to kill, to change, to pollute, to bathe in excess." - Codex: Chaos Daemons (8th ed.), pg. 9

Chaos Gods could have consumed realspace if they had wanted when the Great Rift opened which happened at the end of M41. Instead they preferred to mess around in it. So you have a statement of them being able to, by their will, consume a universe if they had the motivation to do so.

From the same Codex:

Beyond the boundaries of space and time, the Chaos Gods observe the galaxy with ancient and malevolent eyes. To these terrible entities, realspace is simply a battlefield, and its inhabitants mere pawns, in the grandest game of all – the struggle for ultimate dominion between the Ruinous Powers themselves. Many mortals have been corrupted to fight this war in their name, including the superhuman warriors of the Heretic Astartes, but their truest servants remain the Daemons created in their own image: creatures of staggering power, horrifying aspect and exceptional cruelty.

Because that is just their nature. They have never wanted the great game to end, and they see no reason to destroy anything yet.

Why did I post this part? Because its important to understand their motivations. Even if they had the ability to bust the universe, they don't have the motivation to do so.

On this:

"Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space." - Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 144

Another quote about destroying said universe and om nom noming it. However, it is always daemons that seek the destruction of the material universe. Not the Chaos Gods [which is something most people never bother to notice]. There are multiple versions of the quote above, one if 5th and I think in 7th, I'm not going to bother to post those two as they say the same thing as this one with a few words rearranged.

"But Wut!? How could they destroy the... oh... the... the Golden Throne.. the GEoM holding the door closed... throughout time and space..... right... right... but that must mean the GEoM is just as strong! Save holding a door closed is much easier then forcing it open, the GEoM went out of his way to avoid facing them and the Chaos Gods have been, outright stated, to be able to om nom the universe if they wanted when the Great Rift was opened, they just preferred to keep playing which means the GEoM isn't as strong as them in raw power which anyone with even a passing knowledge of 40k would know... hmmmmmm. Okay."

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.

Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"

Pg.712 A Thousand Sons

Universes could be created and destroyed, in the warp, quite casually. [Unless you want to argue Universes within the Warp don't count? Because reasons? Or Ahriman, who is not speaking here, is lying to himself in his observations... because reasons.

There you go, you can add those 3 to your collection of 'Chaos Gods can om nom universes' collection of 1. I don't care if you believe those to be 'high end' or not [considering we don't have many feats of Chaos and the fact that the entire purpose of the Golden Throne is to keep them from doing exactly this, not sure... how high end I'd consider this, but discussion for another time].

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#31 Edited by Hughneutron (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@sungsam: so no argument on how they can bypass their abstract body? Got it.

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#32 Posted by B3rnkastel (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: Yet once again.through all that, you haven't posted anything that is quantifiable and could place them at a "multiversal level". This isn't about buzzwords, considering that, once again, whenever a character is dubbed as multiversal,it is always in relation to their busting capability.

This is a standard across many battleboarding sites, not just this one, and you can browse those forums and sites yourself to confirm whether or not my claim is true. Your'e arguing the wrong point here, considering the original point of contention is whether or not they could cause damage/attack on a scale/level similar to or equal to SSTGL, which they cannot.

Regardless, being able to operate in several universes at once does not make a character multiversal, unless you have a different definition of the word than a majority of users both on this site and elsewhere. Would they operate on a multi-universal level? Sure, but the term to be using here most certainly isn't multiversal.

Once again, statements don't equate to much considering we still don't have any measure of what an actual display of their "power" could be, and leaves us at a point where we have to say that they could do this, or they have possibility to do that, when once again ,they get things done in the 40k-verse through lesser beings. The only thing you have going for your case is this:

"Had the Chaos Gods worked in unison in the wake of that terrible event, it is doubtless that realspace would have been utterly consumed by the sprawling madness of the warp. Yet true to their nature, the dark brothers saw the anarchy as an opportunity to fulfil their own agendas: to kill, to change, to pollute, to bathe in excess." - Codex: Chaos Daemons (8th ed.), pg. 9

Regarding this:

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.

Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"

Pg.712 A Thousand Sons

You and I are both aware this is the highest(or at least one of the highest) showings in relation to the Chaos Gods ,and aside from this they have only demonstrated being at minimum planet busters(going off of the Tzeentch speaking feat),while being nebulous in terms of their full range of power.Sure,is that because the material world isn't really their place, and not where they're most powerful? Yeah,but we shouldn't rate them higher than what's actually been shown.It's also implied heavily that Horus was able to take them on toe to toe and take his own power from the warp without needing the Chaos Gods to empower him, but he's pretty heavy on the ole plot armors this could be seen as PiS or for plot reasons in general.

Aside from this, I'm not sure how any of this helps them against SSTGL here, unless you didn't mean to actually debate that, but simply to contest the point of the Chaos Gods being multiversal or not.

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#33 Posted by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

It's also implied heavily that Horus was able to take them on toe to toe and take his own power from the warp without needing the Chaos Gods to empower him

>Taking Horus's lunatic ravings seriously

Yea no, they likely just humoured him.

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#34 Edited by Wut (6892 posts) - - Show Bio

@b3rnkastel: Yet once again.through all that, you haven't posted anything that is quantifiable and could place them at a "multiversal level". This isn't about buzzwords, considering that, once again, whenever a character is dubbed as multiversal,it is always in relation to their busting capability.

This is a standard across many battleboarding sites, not just this one, and you can browse those forums and sites yourself to confirm whether or not my claim is true. Your'e arguing the wrong point here, considering the original point of contention is whether or not they could cause damage/attack on a scale/level similar to or equal to SSTGL, which they cannot.

Being a Multiversal Being =/= Having Multiversal Busting Power. They are not mutually exclusive. I have no idea why you are struggling with such a basic concept.

I do not care about the SSTGL debate. I've never seen it because I'm not a large fan of mecha anime. Our debate, our only debate, is on your claim that:

Decaf has it right, and there's more going against the idea of the Chaos Gods being "multiversal" than there is supporting them being at that level.

You said there was more going for it then against it. Which meant you must have had feats for and against it and then, after quantifying both, decided one was the superior argument. I asked that you show me these feats and your line of reasoning that lead to this outcome.

You did not do so.

You posted a single feat that was for this and then waved if off as 'Horus is totes a liar and he is obviously lying about this'. You then asserted that was the only one you had seen 'for' which means you didn't look very hard when making your assessment.

As we now both know you are saying 'Chaos Gods can't destroy Universes' that is the crux of this debate between you and I. I am providing feats saying they certainly can because you, apparently, have never seen them. If you think this is 'derailing' it is not as others can certainly use the feats I've provided to quantify what the Chaos Gods are capable of from what little we know/seen of them [far better then the other guy screaming abstract over and over again].

Regardless, being able to operate in several universes at once does not make a character multiversal, unless you have a different definition of the word than a majority of users both on this site and elsewhere. Would they operate on a multi-universal level? Sure, but the term to be using here most certainly isn't multiversal.

You continue to struggle with such a simple topic. What makes a being Multiversal? Existing in multiple universes, at once, and being capable of doing actions in said universes.

You, however, were referring to Busting. The pure ability to unleash destructive capability on a multiversal level. Multiversal Beings and Multiversal Busting are not the same thing. They are often related, this is true, but not always. On this site, sometimes, people are lazy and don't like debating using feats and intelligence, so they will throw around Buzzwords like 'Multiversal!' with no context to back up if they are referring to the state of being, which is what most context would point to, or 'Busting'.

You were referring to 'Busting'. Which we have now established. Why you continue on this charade is beyond me, but I shall indulge it.

Once again, statements don't equate to much considering we still don't have any measure of what an actual display of their "power" could be, and leaves us at a point where we have to say that they could do this, or they have possibility to do that, when once again ,they get things done in the 40k-verse through lesser beings. The only thing you have going for your case is this:

Ah, I am prepared for the normal debate that I am sure I will enjoy. Before I read further, I am going to hazard your debate, and your entire debate, will have two strats:

  1. Deny the validity of any given feats that disagree with your point of view whilst giving no opposing feats.
  2. Attempt the 'Absence of Evidence' fallacy after denying the validity of previous given feats.

I hope you surprise me.

You and I are both aware this is the highest(or at least one of the highest) showings in relation to the Chaos Gods ,and aside from this they have only demonstrated being at minimum planet busters(going off of the Tzeentch speaking feat),while being nebulous in terms of their full range of power.Sure,is that because the material world isn't really their place, and not where they're most powerful? Yeah,but we shouldn't rate them higher than what's actually been shown.It's also implied heavily that Horus was able to take them on toe to toe and take his own power from the warp without needing the Chaos Gods to empower him, but he's pretty heavy on the ole plot armors this could be seen as PiS or for plot reasons in general.

Why? We already have other feats stating Chaos is capable of devouring Universes in Realspace once they have opened the door and want to. The fact they can create and destroy them, in the warp, a place that is full of raw power and is constantly referred to as the power of creation shouldn't be surprising.

So, what are you attempting to do here? Call Pre-Chaos Ahriman a liar when he is observing events? Ahriman is a very reliable expert on this topic, especially, pre-chaos as he isn't insane. There is no reason to doubt his words other then wanting to because you do not like what it would mean. Which is silly.

Post it. Post Horus going toe to toe with the Chaos Gods. Standing up to them =/= going toe to toe considering Archaon does the same crap in AoS and WHF and the Chaos Gods indulged him anyways because they didn't really care. Horus had a purpose. Horus fulfilled his purpose. Horus was discarded. In that order.

Now, on this, Horus was almost taken out by a human with a daemon weapon [the same one Fulgrim later uses], so the idea that he can take on a Chaos god, I shouldn't have to say this but I will, is very desperate from you and I can't believe you are attempting this line of reasoning. [On this, I suggest you pick up MoM because the Emperor is nearly taken out by a special snowflake Greater Daemon who was fully capable of killing the Emperor and it was even his 'destiny' to do so].

Aside from this, I'm not sure how any of this helps them against SSTGL here, unless you didn't mean to actually debate that, but simply to contest the point of the Chaos Gods being multiversal or not.

I'm in no mood to move the goal post. You are well aware of what I am targeting you for my debate. You made a claim. I am challenging your claim. I am not challenging the claim of SSTGL > Chaos Gods or Chaos Gods ? SSTGL.

If you wish to concede your point and say, "Okay, I guess Chaos Gods do have more feats of them eating universes then I had previously considered. I remove that but believe that to be 'higher end'," you are welcome to do so. You are also welcome to continue to debate. However, this is the point, the only one, I am interested in.

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#35 Posted by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: Drach'nyen was clearly a minor chaos god m8, callin my boy a special snowflake Greater Daemon is DISRESPEC

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#36 Posted by Wut (6892 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: You know.. I have no issue with him being a minor Chaos God. I feel it fits better with the narrative of him being capable of downing the GEoM. Jusssst weak enough to enter the mortal realm. I hope they do make him one, tbh. [But that does hurt the other lesser Chaos Gods since it means they are weak enough to be bound to a sword... But on the other hand.. who gives a crap about Lesser Chaos Gods XD]

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#37 Edited by decaf_wizard (16538 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: Well he very clearly had his own domains and his awakening likely even predates the other chaos gods conscious awakening. He is definitely an independant chaos entity

And you know full well he is only humouring Abbadon for some reason. His form as a sword is entirely his choice, with the Custard Tart he was bound to being long ago dead

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#38 Posted by Wut (6892 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: Lol he reminds me of WHF Be'lakor, tbh. Having his own 'religion', domain, etc and trying to become one of the big boys. [The entire awakening thing is screwy anyways since Slaanesh had daemons prior to her birth running around, but then again, thanks to the new chaos stuff, they have 'always and never existed' which really messes with the timeline as it kinda means at every moment, even before their births, they exist which... weird but making sense of them is folly, I suppose. Entire point of it being beyond the scope of human mind].

Honestly, I figure its easier to pass into the realspace as a possessed item then it is for him to force his way into space again. Maybe he will jump out and get beaten up by Abbadon so Abbadon can have a 'win' like Archaon was given a 'win'. ^_-

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#39 Posted by MErulezall (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

@b3rnkastel: You know for all this talk about you disproving your theory on why the chaos gods can't and don't operate in multiple universes blows my mind away and even more so on how many sheep followed you blindly.