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#51 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

I'm not going back and forth with this crap, @godsvileanddarkwing what is your ruling on the term "powerless"? A sheer hand to hand fight with no external abilities? No additional senses, no ki blasts, no shockwave techniques, etc. etc. Or simply stats equalized with no ki manipulation, TK, flight and such?

Both Goku and Kenshiro being real life people fighting like people of their weight class size physique in real life martial arts. So it's just pure hand-to-hand combat.

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#52 Posted by vegetasan (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax:

No Caption Provided

and the likes of frieza could replicate kenshiro's main gimmick. this isn't high end martial arts

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#53 Posted by DaxNovu (167 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be going with the one who required afterlife deities to train him to expand his skill. Goku.

---

"Here, at the end of all stories, Mandrakk dwells. Slumber eternal. Your stories have come to an end."

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#54 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

There’s no way Goku only weighs 139 ibs.

*136 Ibs

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#55 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetasan: that's not even close to what he does.

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#56 Posted by vegetasan (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: making people explode with pokes is his main gimmick. what are you even on about? when you're ready to actually explain how and why he's so much better then tag me otherwise i'm done wasting my time with downplayers

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#57 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetasan: that was all Ki based and had nothing to do with hand to hand.

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#58 Edited by vegetasan (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: Yeah, we're done here. He's clearly striking them. You're just upset a non-martial artist within DB could replicate his feats.

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#59 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Edited by vegetasan (485 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: Proof of a failing argument right there. Says a gif posted showcasing hand to hand was not hand to hand. Only vine.

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#61 Edited by hurricanefunnel (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

goku wins he had the better training

goku wins based on strength

goku wins high diff

physics were also on goku's side where as on kenshiro's side, they were not, at least the positive ones

also if you exclude the physics you get the stats

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#62 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#63 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#64 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@hurricanefunnel said:

goku wins he had the better training

goku wins based on strength

goku wins high diff

physics were also on goku's side where as on kenshiro's side, they were not, at least the positive ones

also if you exclude the physics you get the stats

In real life martial arts competition, the one who weighs more should be the one to be able to hit harder than the one who weighs less.

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#65 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

goku being 136 pounds is impossible. He would weigh at least 190

The top professional bodybuilders at 5’8” with less muscle than goku weigh 180

Kenshiro in real life would weigh 270-290 pounds

just wanted to point that out

It's Japan, they have no understanding of how much their characters weighs in fiction.

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#66 Posted by hurricanefunnel (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

@hurricanefunnel said:

goku wins he had the better training

goku wins based on strength

goku wins high diff

physics were also on goku's side where as on kenshiro's side, they were not, at least the positive ones

also if you exclude the physics you get the stats

In real life martial arts competition, the one who weighs more should be the one to be able to hit harder than the one who weighs less.

they are fictional characters though so that wouldn't apply

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#67 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@hurricanefunnel said:
@godsvileanddarkwing said:
@hurricanefunnel said:

goku wins he had the better training

goku wins based on strength

goku wins high diff

physics were also on goku's side where as on kenshiro's side, they were not, at least the positive ones

also if you exclude the physics you get the stats

In real life martial arts competition, the one who weighs more should be the one to be able to hit harder than the one who weighs less.

they are fictional characters though so that wouldn't apply

But this are powerless Goku and powerless Kenshiro who are bound to real life weight class size physique, so.

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#68 Posted by hurricanefunnel (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

@hurricanefunnel said:
@godsvileanddarkwing said:
@hurricanefunnel said:

goku wins he had the better training

goku wins based on strength

goku wins high diff

physics were also on goku's side where as on kenshiro's side, they were not, at least the positive ones

also if you exclude the physics you get the stats

In real life martial arts competition, the one who weighs more should be the one to be able to hit harder than the one who weighs less.

they are fictional characters though so that wouldn't apply

But this are powerless Goku and powerless Kenshiro who are bound to real life weight class size physique, so.

fictional characters do not apply to bound-ness

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#69 Posted by WhatamIseeing (1669 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: look up jeremy buendia goku is bigger than him

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#70 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18335 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:
@precrisisbardock said:

@deathhero61: He’s not even using Ki thought so how’s that a power...

Its literally an ability..... you cannot tell me that being able to fight with your eyes closes by feeling the literal atmosphere is legit a skill more than it is a power. Even then, its not that useful in a direct fight where both opponents are staring dead at each other powerless. Said ability is the baseline of Dende's and Kami's ability to see everything that happens on earth.

I am not saying Ken wins or loses but I don't see why this has to be an ability instead due to his superhuman senses, which we do know Goku has. Sure it's unrealistic but none of the stuff Goku does is really realistic to begin with, tons of characters in fiction can do the same thing but don't have the ability to see things like Dende or Kami.

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#72 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@mainjp said:
@godsvileanddarkwing said:
@deathhero61 said:

Is this end of DB Goku? Or End of Super Goku? Big difference skill wise.

Either way in terms of raw technical skill, a case for Goku having the advantage can be made, but that skill is meaningless without an appropriate approach to technique which Kenshiro is superior in, he can literally press pressure points that can kill with elbow strikes, knee strikes, and finger pokes. H2H is in Ken's favor due to superior technique.

End of Dragon Ball Z manga.

So no Super? it’s End of DB Goku? Btw, in the Japanese release of the manga “Dragon Ball” is the Emperor Pilaf arc all the way to Majin Boo.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Just bringing that up incase your response was a correction.

Kenshiro via pressure points.

Yep, this is powerless End of DBZ Goku vs powerless End of FOTNS:TCS Kenshiro, since they are similar or close in age and experience.

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#73 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstar: Yeah no. There’s few fictional martial arts better or even close to as broken than Hokuto Shinken.

AKA The martial arts with an answer to just about any situation possible with a degree of control over the body few have ever matched the numerous application this does

AKA The martial arts that has you already dead with just a poke of a finger

And don’t even get started with comparing whose the better martial artist

Goku has no answer to Musou Tensei teleport spam and phasing through everything he tries before phasing through his organs and one-shotting him

Melee with Kenshiro only ends with Goku’s head exploding

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#74 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75 said:

@thedeathstar: Yeah no. There’s few fictional martial arts better or even close to as broken than Hokuto Shinken.

AKA The martial arts with an answer to just about any situation possible with a degree of control over the body few have ever matched the numerous application this does

AKA The martial arts that has you already dead with just a poke of a finger

Goku has no answer to Musou Tensei teleport spam and phasing through everything he tries before phasing through his organs and one-shotting him

Melee with Kenshiro only ends with Goku’s head exploding

Um, this is powerless Kenshiro who is bound to real life martial arts that's fit for his weight class system, he doesn't have his anime techniques which you don't see happen in real life. It's just plain hand-to-hand combat.

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#75 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing: And his style of hand to hand combat is Hokuto Shinken AKA striking any of the over 700 vital points in Goku’s body with every hit he makes

Everything he does is pure technique

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#76 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

People, can I please ask you to stop bringing up anime abilities or techniques?! What part of "powerless", you don't understand?! You don't see all those anime stuff happen in real life, do you?! When I mean by powerless, I mean everything, including their anime techniques or abilities such Flight, Kamehameha, Muso Tensei, etc. It's just a battle of who knows better hand-to-hand combat if they were real life people, fighting one and other based on their weight class!

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#77 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing: And what part of striking pressure points is a real life thing do you not get?

Again, this goes to the dude that make you stop breathing with a finger jab?

If we limit anymore than this, your thread is pointless since there’s nothing to argue about for either if even their very style martial arts is out of the equation.

What’s to even talk about? Their physique?

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#78 Posted by huthimamwa (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

If accurate, the size difference is way too much. If their skill level is in any way comparable, Goku wont be able to overcome being dwarfed by his opponent.

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#79 Posted by Scotchbear (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we counting ultra instinct as a power or a skill?

If it’s a skill he curbs.

Without his powers he’s probably just a peak human.

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#80 Posted by Lucano (3442 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight would most likely go like this: Kenshiro punches Goku in the face, Goku's neck goes *crack*, that weight difference...

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#81 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75 said:

@godsvileanddarkwing: And what part of striking pressure points is a real life thing do you not get?

Again, this goes to the dude that make you stop breathing with a finger jab?

If we limit anymore than this, your thread is pointless since there’s nothing to argue about for either if even their very style martial arts is out of the equation.

What’s to even talk about? Their physique?

A punch from Kenshiro is just a punch, a pressure point attack from Kenshiro is just a pressure point attack, a kick from Kenshiro is just a kick, etc same with Goku. Does that answer your question?

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#82 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear said:

Are we counting ultra instinct as a power or a skill?

If it’s a skill he curbs.

Without his powers he’s probably just a peak human.

No, it's just your typical real life hand-to-hand combat based on your weight class and skills.

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#83 Posted by DeathHero61 (18776 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Fair enough, looking back on it now, you're all right in that regard. Doesn't really change my stance anyway, the clear intent for this match is to be hand to hand, no superhuman senses, just the strict martial arts and hand to hand skills they have.

@vummax:

No Caption Provided

and the likes of frieza could replicate kenshiro's main gimmick. this isn't high end martial arts

Its nowhere near the same level though.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/fist-of-the-north-star-respect-thread-1865162/

Kenshiro can hit an opponent with virtually any kind of attack, and still strike a pressure point that is lethal, it doesn't end at a finger poke.

@vummax said:

@vegetasan: that was all Ki based and had nothing to do with hand to hand.

Ken technically does the same thing.

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#84 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

@thewatcherking: Fair enough, looking back on it now, you're all right in that regard. Doesn't really change my stance anyway, the clear intent for this match is to be hand to hand, no superhuman senses, just the strict martial arts and hand to hand skills they have.

@vegetasan said:

@vummax:

No Caption Provided

and the likes of frieza could replicate kenshiro's main gimmick. this isn't high end martial arts

Its nowhere near the same level though.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/fist-of-the-north-star-respect-thread-1865162/

Kenshiro can hit an opponent with virtually any kind of attack, and still strike a pressure point that is lethal, it doesn't end at a finger poke.

@vummax said:

@vegetasan: that was all Ki based and had nothing to do with hand to hand.

Ken technically does the same thing.

Note to self, this is just pure hand-to-hand combat, in other words, a punch is just a punch, a finger poke is just a finger poke, a kick is just a kick, a pressure point attack is just a pressure point attack, etc. Kenshiro is allowed to use Hokuto Shin Ken & Hokuto Sōke no Ken techniques on Goku, but it doesn't have any adverse aftereffects on his opponent, like them blowing up, their body being controlled, etc. Same with Goku, Goku is also allowed to use his fighting style techniques on Kenshiro, but it doesn't have any adverse aftereffects on his opponent. This is a simply a real life fight between two martial artists beating each other to death, while bound to their weight class system.

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#85 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

For all of the people who thinks Kenshiro wins because of the size difference, you are somewhat on the right track, but you gotta remember something important. Goku is a saiyan not a human, his body is naturally much tougher than a human's body, Kenshiro's attacks won't break Goku's body that easily as you think so.

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#86 Edited by Omega_kai (3162 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku, he has better training, stronger, and more durable by the way there's no way Goku weighs 136 pounds.

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#87 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku, he has better training, stronger, and more durable by the way there's no way Goku weighs 136 pounds.

It's from the wiki.

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#88 Posted by SeaGod (4672 posts) - - Show Bio

@omega_kai: how is Goku more durable and stronger when he has a normal human body for his build which is being put above his weight class?

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#89 Edited by TheDeathstar (4233 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75: Kenshiro has no answer to Migatte no Gokui. Especially the ones on Goku's level, literally takes an Angel to learn. Kenshiro gets bodied before he can make any thoughts about doing anything.

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#90 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (4509 posts) - - Show Bio

No way he's only 136 lbs even if it says that on the wiki. Speaking of which I was always saw Goku as taller than that, at least 6 something.

OT: I could see it go either way.

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#91 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstar: LMAO, Ultra Instinct ain’t got shit on Musou Tensei

A better version with all the same perks but with the added ability to make yourself into a void-like state where everything just passes right through while he can phase right through the opponent and kill them.

Also helps that unlike Goku whose still a scrub and can’t even actually use that technique on his own, Kenshiro use Musou Tensei at a whim

In a battle of technique, Goku's gonna end up with his peanut-sized brain decorating the floor every time

Hell Ken can just copy Ultra Instinct with a glance. The requirements to meet it that are so hard for DBZ characters is basically Kenshiro’s usual state of mind.

Even Roshi pulled it off. LEL

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#92 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75: @thedeathstar: Stop bring up Ultra Instinct and Muso Tensei, I already told you this is just regular hand-to-hand combat where both Goku and Kenshiro are slowly beating each other to death. No one is copying anyone's technique, blowing each other up, etc.

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#93 Edited by TheDeathstar (4233 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75: You seem offended. Cool it off then try to understand what you're even saying. Miggate no Gokui shits on anything Kenshiro has to date. Roshi didn't pull of Ultra Instinct and it was stated by Whis, an Angel himself. Are you watching this show on drugs or even know how it works? This same technique can't be mastered by the GoDs who have lived upto Millions of years. Make jokes somewhere else. Kenshiro won't even lay a hand while Goku effectively wrecks him up and completely dominates him.

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#94 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstar: Cool stuff

Love how you still cant actually explain how your special snowflake Ultra Instinct is getting by Musou Tensei’s Void-like intangibility and teleport spamming in a stats equalized fight.

Answer: There is none. Ken one-shots

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#95 Posted by TheDeathstar (4233 posts) - - Show Bio
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#96 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio
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#97 Edited by Amonfire1776 (3024 posts) - - Show Bio

Either gets stomped by a real martial artist if truely powerless...

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#98 Edited by TheDeathstar (4233 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosknight75: Funny thing is you don't have any explanation. Intangible attacks such as of Hit have been both countered by Jiren and Goku let alone MUI. The fact Goku can predict Hit's attacks in a time Hax is already far more complex than anything Ken has done ever and MUI is even above those precognitions.

You probably even have Ken beat an Angel at this point lmao. Someone with Billion years of experience. This same technique is of Angels if you're not aware and even God's of Destructions who have million years of fighting experience fail to achieve such Nirvana like state. The fact Goku can sense higher spiritual energy with such senses is one of the martial arts Ken would have no counter to or be rid of as it will follow and haunt him and is basic in DB.

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#99 Edited by ChaosKnight75 (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstar: Wrong like usual. Hit doesn’t become intangible. He simply phases into his little pocket dimension to appear intangible and interacting with him literally just involves breaking into that dimension.

Kenshiro doesn’t go anywhere for Goku to break into. He literally turns into the void for his intangibility which Goku has no answer to since he couldn’t lay a finger on Hit when he wasn’t there.

Goku is fighting someone that doesn’t physcially exist.

Cool about Angels. Hokuto Shinken still has applications nothing seen in Dragon Ball can replicate, especially since its more about raising your power level than anything else

Martial Arts in DBZ is actually pretty overrated. Current Goku after all that “Godly” training still gets utterly ragdolled by Broly whose never even been in a real battle yet and has no formal martial arts training

Oh and he still cannot use Ultra Instinct on his own.

Educate yourself of something outside your idol Goku and get off his nuts for once.

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#100 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Yo! What's with people tossing curses and hate speech towards one and other all over fictional characters?! I might have to get this thread locked if you people can't keep your behaviors under control!