Sunny (Into the Badlands) vs. MCU Black Panther

H2H Only

Tchalla doesn't have his suit

Who wins?

VS

Black Panther in a good fight I think....but it could go either way

Black Panther

Panther in a decent fight.

Black Panther because of durability, but Sunny would dominate otherwise. Actually, with the Widow kick he can probably harm T'Challa enough to put him down. Sunny should win quite comfortably here.

Sunny

Sunny. Similar physicals and skill set, but sunny has better feats

Sunny is borderline superhuman, I think he even beats Cap with the shield. Widow is a casual multiple knife, arrow timer, things moving in slo mo and he stomps her, in addition to speed and agility Sunny he's also incredibly durable and strong.

Bump

Without his suit, Sunny in a good fight.

Sunny. He can contend with "dark ones' which is more than enough feat. He is probably a lot more skilled than t'challa and might have better speed. Although t'challa might be stronger. Still sunny wins.

Out of curiosity what are Sunny's speed feats like? I am curious how speed is depicted in a universe without guns? Is it just based on Sunny's ability to parry multiple people at once or does Sunny have other speed feats?

I am not making a case for T'challa as I said I am just curious how speed is depicted in into the badlands.

@jashro44: Remember the season five episode of Arrow in the flashbacks when an arrow was shot at Oliver's back and he turned around and caught it after it was fired? Sunny's done exactly that but with a crossbow bolt from a closer distance. If you're interested I can try and gather some speed feats for characters in the show generally.

@lubub55: Sure if its not too much trouble. Don't go out of your way though. I probably wont debate in into the badlands thread I am just curious about there feats. Also I probably wont view the feats until after work.

@shadyxv: @shadyxv: Sunny didn’t contend with any dark ones, he got stomped either time he faced any of the abbots, and he couldn’t do anything to restrain M.K.

On topic, it’s hard to say. Sunny is the better fighter, but that has never helped him against super soldier types. T’Challa should easily be strong enough to hurt him, and he’s got the speed to match. Sunny has some impressive feats himself in both regards, and T’Challa lacks a lot of durability feats outside the suit.

@stormdriven: Panther has great feats outside his suit. From Civil War he took a hit straight to the chest from Winter Soldier's metal arm and survived that explosion.

@jashro44: They do a lot of casual deflecting of thrown objects, as well as deflecting crossbows, whether deflecting those coming at their person or intercepting other with thrown objects

@acrokat: True, but he only has three. Those, and then the hit from Klaue’s cannon.

@stormdriven: I don't want to count Klaue's cannon. That thing obliterated a vibranium car...

I see. Kind of sounds like there in the same league. T'challa would need feats from the tie-in comic to be considered faster in terms of reflexes.

@stormdriven: by contend i meant standed his ground (held his own) he did got beatup by masters although they seems to use some hax/magic. He went toe to toe with people like the widdow, nathaniel, quin etc and all them showed some above human feats not on supersoldier level but atlest peak human level. He is a arrow timer as well but isn't t'challa like bullet timer i don't remember but IMO sunny wins.. in his solo movie t'challa didn't show as much skills and speed as he did in civil war.

@jashro44: Watch this to see how crazy awesome The Widow is: Into the Badlands: 'The Widow's Ambush' Talked About Scene Ep. 201 - YouTube

Immediately after this she deflects five crossbow bolts fired at her close range back to back. The people she's slaughtering here aren't joe shmoe fodder either they are Clippers which are the best soldiers in this universe. They are trained since childhood.

Now this is how Sunny deals with her: Sunny vs Widow-ITBs1e5 - YouTube

Notice how she tanks being kicked through a solid brick wall.

There's more. As good as Widow is she loses to Quinn. Who loses to Sunny.

Into the Badlands - Quinn vs The Widow - YouTube

Into the badlands 2 final fight. Sunny Vs Quinn - YouTube

@allstarsuperman: I'll have to check that out after work. Thank you for collecting those feats though. They sound impressive.

@jashro44: No problem. Can't believe you aren't watching this show. It's one of my current favorites.

@allstarsuperman: I saw the first episode but I never really got into it. It wasn't bad I just never had the motivation to continue with it. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

@jashro44: If you're going to try again, would you still like me to post feats or would you rather go in not knowing?

@acrokat: I’m sure he had different levels of power he could fire it at

I’m guessing this is what you were looking for?

that was the widow. Sunny can beat her without getting hit once

@shadyxv: He didn’t stand his ground though. Every time he tried to stand up to them, they wrecked him. They didn’t even need to use any of those glowing touches you were referencing to beat him.

@stormdriven:

Sunny didn’t contend with any dark ones, he got stomped either time he faced any of the abbots, and he couldn’t do anything to restrain M.K.

He hasn't beaten any himself, but in today's episode The Widow was able to beat one of Pilgrim's main ones who had just beaten Tilda.

@allstarsuperman:

There's more. As good as Widow is she loses to Quinn. Who loses to Sunny.

To be fair the fight with Quinn had context. Quinn was winning until Sunny got a plot-based rage amp IIRC, and he also beat The Widow much more solidly than Sunny did.

@lubub55: I don’t think Castor had his gift on, did he? And you and I remember the Quinn vs Sunny fight very differently. Sunny had the upper hand until Quinn brought out the sais. And rage isn’t an amp, it was just Sunny trying to save Veil

@stormdriven: oh I'm sorry then. It's been a while since i saw season 1 and 2.

@shadyxv: All good, man

@webinyoureye11: I'll check it out when I get home. The internet at my work is kind of slow.

@stormdriven: so who do you think will win this?

@shadyxv: Kinda tough. I might lean T’Challa

@stormdriven: yes it is tough. I'mma back sunny. Imo he wins by slight margin for me.

@stormdriven:

I don’t think Castor had his gift on, did he?

I'm pretty sure he did. Almost certain, but I can't find the clip on YouTube.

And you and I remember the Quinn vs Sunny fight very differently. Sunny had the upper hand until Quinn brought out the sais.

Are you sure? I haven't seen the episode since it aired, but I distinctly remember Quinn having the upper hand throughout most of it when they were on even terms.

And rage isn’t an amp, it was just Sunny trying to save Veil

I mean it makes him fight more effectively than usual and is based on something in the plot that doesn't have an impact on most fights so it can't show superiority over Quinn when the boost he needed to do it is something that's plot-specific and had to be done because Sunny had to win for the sake of the story. When they were at equal levels of motivation Quinn was winning, so he needed something to give him an edge.

@lubub55: Sunny was looking the better of the two, and even disarmed Quinn before Quinn threw them both out the window. Then he brought out the sais, and landed a couple hits before stabbing Sunny and kicking him through that board.

It might have been plot based, but it wasn’t an amp. Quinn was about to kill Veil, so Sunny tried to save her and beat him. They were evenly matched before hand, and yes it gave him the win, but it’s not necesarrily and amp because an amp implies outside power making Sunny better. This was just Sunny getting pissed off/desperate to save the woman he loved. It was well within his capabilites as a fighter, just a change of mindset.

black panther stomps honestly with his gauntlet, sunny is oneshotted, even though he's more skilled, bp is stronger, faster and more durable by miles.

Black Panther.

@lubub55: I just rewatched the scene, it’s on AMC’s talked about scenes. He was stunned by the explosion caused by the arrival of Widow’s forces, so he was snapped out of it. No gift during their fight.

Edit: Nevermind, he turned it off himself

@stormdriven: I'd have to watch the fight again to discuss it further, so I'll see if I can find it.

Even if it doesn't actually increase his physicals or skill, it still makes him a much more effective fighter even if it is because of mindset. For example with the Winter Solider it's also just a change in mindset compared to Bucky Barnes, but in combat there's a clear power disparity because of ruthlessness. I think the same applies here and whether he actually becomes more powerful physically or whatever is focusing too much on semantics. It's within his capabilities but not something that's relevant in a fight, and doesn't show he's Quinn's superior because of how specific the trigger event was. I think him needing extra motivation to win proves he isn't as good (though I might be misremembering their fight like I said) because if Quinn had an event which gave him that same amp then the reverse would have happened.

changed my mind, just saw that suit is disabled,sunny 7/10, he's far more skilled, still bp is stronger but that's not enough.

With suit, bp solos the verse easily.

Looks like you're right. I didn't notice that first time round.

@lubub55: There’s a best of YouTube video for Season 2 fights. I’d link, but I’m on mobile.

They were pretty evenly matched throughtout, close enough to the point the fight is basically a wash under normal circumstances. I’d still favor Sunny ever so slightly.

So would you consider Oliver’s last fight with Grundy an amp? Considering he needed a pep talk from the third ghost? Kinda off-topic, but just curious.

@dami24434: Skill isn’t everything in a fight

@lubub55: I think you should rewatch the fight. Sunny was the clear superior. He disarmed Quinn. And knocked his ass away and landed ridiculously lethal shots on him. Quinn kept coming back for more through his insane pain tolerance but skillfully he was clearly inferior to Sunny. Also. I'm pretty sure Sunny didn't even start the fight fresh he was weakened from previous battles.

@stormdriven:

I found a video. During the first section of the fight which lasts under a minute, they're even but Quinn only gets disarmed after Veil comes along and he focuses too much on her. When they're on the ground, Quinn lands a total of seven hits on Sunny, one flooring him and the last one actually incapacitating him. To contrast this, Sunny didn't land a single blow. If Quinn wanted to he could have gone over to Sunny curled up on the floor and killed him without much hassle, but he went to Veil instead. Then Sunny threw his swords through Quinn and beat him after a short fight, so Quinn was injured as well as Sunny having extra motivation.

So would you consider Oliver’s last fight with Grundy an amp? Considering he needed a pep talk from the third ghost? Kinda off-topic, but just curious.

Funnily enough, this would have been the next example I had lined up if you didn't think the Winter Soldier one was fitting because of the brainwashing. Yes, I consider that an amp for Oliver. Though I think you can get permanent amps as well, like in Daredevil Matt needed Elektra to be killed to go from losing to Nobu with her help to stomping him, but he retained that level of skill even afterwards. I don't think that's happened with Sunny or if it has we haven't been shown enough to know yet, but in the context of the fight with Quinn he generally wasn't as good.