Sukuna vs Neferpitou

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AlternisDim

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Poll Sukuna vs Neferpitou (34 votes)

Gege's boyfriend 74%
The Cat 21%
Tie 6%
  • Bloodlust. Sukuna greatly dislikes Pitou and has also threatened to overthrow this "false king" that the chimera ants serve.
  • Random encounter.
  • In character.
  • Both start twenty meters apart from each other.
  • All canon feats are valid.
  • Battlefield: Random forest.


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LucasCosta

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Sukuna could make a good match against post bomb Meruem.

Pitou would be stomped.

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PrinceX

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Pitou blitzes? Also how does Sukuna not instantly get nen crushed? Pitou stunned both Gon and Killua as a newborn with her aura alone. I don't think Sukuna can resist it....

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Kyle24

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#3 Kyle24  Online

Sukuna stomps

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Supreme101

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Sukuna

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Pizzagod342

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Sukuna cleaves, mismatch

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KingCrimson

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Sukuna deletes it.

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Redsalmon

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Sukuna

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LilacPlasmaBeam

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Sukuna mollywhoops the furry

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PrinceX

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#9  Edited By PrinceX

Can someone explain how Sukuna doesn't instantly die to Pitou's nen?

Also how Sukuna stand a chance when it comes to speed?

Thanks.

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Eredin12

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Sukuna.

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Pizzagod342

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@princex:

Can someone explain how Sukuna doesn't instantly die to Pitou's nen

When has ren ever passively killed someone?

It didn't even stun anyone, both Killua and Gon could move and Gon even tried to fight Pitou

Also how Sukuna stand a chance when it comes to speed

Sukuna is faster then Pitou

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PrinceX

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@pizzagod342:

When has ren ever passively killed someone?

It didn't even stun anyone, both Killua and Gon could move and Gon even tried to fight Pitou

If you read the series you would know ren can easily kill someone, why its never happened? because every character has nen, the only instance it was used on someone that didn't have nen was when Hisoka did it on Gon and Killua, but if you read the series you would know Hisoka masturbates over their potential which is why he didn't actually bother killing them. Its explained in the series nen would kill someone who doesn't have nen themselfs.

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And remember this is done to someone who has mastered nen to a high degree. Also its literally a newborn Pitou, they got stronger over the course of the series.

Sukuna is faster then Pitou

Pitou is easily in the MHS ranges....

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pics

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Lol, as Prince showed Pitou’s Nen is in fact a threat and “muh it didn’t kill anyone” is a non argument considering Nen grants defenses against mental attacks. That said, it boils down to speed, Gojo has the Black Flash statement of being able to time it if it explicitly came down to speed and Sukuna would essentially scale, however knowing Sukuna he’d probably play around and die to Pitou’s en.

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AlternisDim

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The arguments presented are interesting on both sides.

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Pizzagod342

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@princex:

If you read the series you would know ren can easily kill someone,

I do know that ren can kill someone, what I asked was when it ever did on screen, killing someone over on unknown amount of time isn't good enough to kill Sukuna when he can easily one shot Pitou the second the fight starts with a cleave

because every character has nen, the only instance it was used on someone that didn't have nen was when Hisoka did it on Gon and Killua, but if you read the series you would know Hisoka masturbates over their potential which is why he didn't actually bother killing them.

You literally post a scan where Wing states that Hisoka would kill Gon and Killua,

And remember this is done to someone who has mastered nen to a high degree. Also its literally a newborn Pitou, they got stronger over the course of the series.

It shocked them for 2 seconds and then they were fine

Pitou is easily in the MHS ranges....

By fan calcs maybe

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PrinceX

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@pizzagod342:

I do know that ren can kill someone, what I asked was when it ever did on screen, killing someone over on unknown amount of time isn't good enough to kill Sukuna when he can easily one shot Pitou the second the fight starts with a cleave

Its not an unknown time, Gon and Killua stood there for a few seconds and Wing stated that they were gonna die, if it takes more than seconds Wing wouldn't make a serious comment like they are gonna die. It definitly doesn't take minutes or hours, whatever your narrative is, is wrong.

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Even someone with resistance to nen got so scared from just being near the aura that they lost their will to fight, Knov is a very experienced nen user and figther too, Sukuna would literally get scared to death without any resistances + the actrual death hax that nen posseses. Sukuna won't survive Pitou's nen at all.

You literally post a scan where Wing states that Hisoka would kill Gon and Killua,

Hisoka only did that for them to learn nen, he didn't want them in the 200th floor without nen as all opponent there have nen, Hisoka also wanted them to grow as figthers through nen. If you actually think Hisoka was gonna kill them there you know nothing of HXH, HIsoka wants to mold them into good fighter so he can fight them later, it would make no sense for Hisoka to kill them here without even having a fight lol.

It shocked them for 2 seconds and then they were fine

It shook 2 experienced nen user for 2 whole seconds, that's pretty impressive for a newborn.... Also the fact that it made Know so scared that he couldn't so anything and lost his will to even fight.

By fan calcs maybe

Well the calculation only calculates what happened in the panels.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#17  Edited By Dmnb2wavy
@pics said:

@princex:

Lol, as Prince showed Pitou’s Nen is in fact a threat and “muh it didn’t kill anyone” is a non argument considering Nen grants defenses against mental attacks. That said, it boils down to speed, Gojo has the Black Flash statement of being able to time it if it explicitly came down to speed and Sukuna would essentially scale, however knowing Sukuna he’d probably play around and die to Pitou’s en.

if this is the case why didn’t any of the hunters just passively use ren to kill the chimera ants before they even learned how to use nen? Case in point I think it’s pretty obvious that you still need to be stronger than your opponents for ren to actually matter

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PrinceX

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#18  Edited By PrinceX
@dmnb2wavy said:
@pics said:

@princex:

Lol, as Prince showed Pitou’s Nen is in fact a threat and “muh it didn’t kill anyone” is a non argument considering Nen grants defenses against mental attacks. That said, it boils down to speed, Gojo has the Black Flash statement of being able to time it if it explicitly came down to speed and Sukuna would essentially scale, however knowing Sukuna he’d probably play around and die to Pitou’s en.

if this is the case why didn’t any of the hunters just passively use ren to kill the chimera ants before they even learned how to use nen? Case in point I think it’s pretty obvious that you still need to be stronger than your opponents for ren to actually matter

Well there are multiple reasons for that being the case, the first one is that it isn't in character for any of them to use nen crush? Kite took a backseat for most of the fights to test out the strength of the two boys and its definitly not in character for Gon or Killua to do so. None of the guys who fought the chimera ants with nen would do that in character. Togashi probably didn't do it because of plot, you expect him to make Gon and Killua nen crush every opponent without a challenge? sounds pretty dumb to me.

Also the Chimera ants have better innate nen than humans, as seen in the CA arc, every semi capable chimera ant learned nen way faster than almost any human does, even the shitty chimera ants learned it faster than Gon and Killua who had Wing as their master with a 1/10000000 potetial or something. We also know every human has a little innate nen.

If we look at Pike at this point in the story, he knew nothing of nen and the Chimera ants hadn't learned of it, yet he could casually catch the nen arrows of a nen user, they have way better innate nen than normal humans, its not even close which also explains that they can't be nen crushed like normal humans who have almost nothing of it.

Its so obvious Chimera ants are way better at nen than normal humans...

So yes its very easily explained.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#19  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex:

Haven’t seen the arc in a minute but what you’re saying about chimera ants isn’t entirely correct. While on some lvl chimera ants do have better innate nen than humans that mostly only goes for squad leaders/captains. rammot is actually a pretty strong ant which is why he was second in command so him being able to use nen that innately isn’t the norm.

https://youtu.be/_n56xZan29Y?si=5j4sxBmWYLessPE0

in the end none of this explains why gon, killua or kite didn’t just use ren to kill the foot soldiers who decided to jump them forcing them into a semi 1v1 tournament situation.

https://youtu.be/9IBPoFDMHGk?si=u3Efy_wOVGKPa0_f

Ultimately you can say “plot” but the more likely explanation is togashi either forget that ren can kill them or just wrote it out of the story especially because none of them even knew ants could use nen at the time nor did they opted to even attempt it

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PrinceX

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#20  Edited By PrinceX

@dmnb2wavy:

Haven’t seen the arc in a minute but what you’re saying about chimera ants isn’t entirely correct. While on some lvl chimera ants do have better innate nen than humans that mostly only goes for squad leaders/captains. rammot is actually a pretty strong ant which is why he was second in command so him being able to use nen that innately isn’t the norm.

Any reason why the foot soilders don't have better innate nen than the average human? lol, its literally been shown to us that the chimera ants are way better at it, when someone like Gon and Killua are prodigies but took longer to learn than a low tier chimera ant. Also im pretty sure Gon and Killua only fought chimera ants that were made through humans and not the absolute weakest ones. Point is all the ants they fought were superior to an average human by a mile.

in the end none of this explains why gon, killua or kite didn’t just use ren to kill the foot soldiers who decided to jump them forcing them into a semi 1v1 tournament situation.

It does... they are way more talented than an average human and has better innate nen.

Ultimately you can say “plot” but the more likely explanation is togashi either forget that ren can kill them or just wrote it out of the story especially because none of them even knew ants could use nen at the time nor did they opted to even attempt it

Its not more likely??? lol. Why would Togashi make Gon and Killua nen crush ants when the point of these fights were for Kite to see how strong the duo was to determine if they could go with him to the nest of the chimera ants....

There are multiple explanations for it, firstly they clearly are better at nen than humans by a mile, even the lower ranked ones that have human traces within them, and the point of Gon and Killua fighting the ants was for Kite to assess their strength which wouldn't make sense if they just nen crushed them.

It can easily be explained both of those ways, but your point is that it just doesn't work "on stronger opponents" is dumb.

Case in point I think it’s pretty obvious that you still need to be stronger than your opponents for ren to actually matter

Are you suggesting the foot soilders are stronger than Gon and Killua? because they killed them quite easily, but still didn't nen crush them. So this point about "not working on stronger opponents" doesn't make sense with what you are trying to argue.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#21  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex:

Any reason why the foot soilders don't have better innate nen than the average human? lol, its literally been shown to us that the chimera ants are way better at it, when someone like Gon and Killua are prodigies but took longer to learn than a low tier chimera ant. Also im pretty sure Gon and Killua only fought chimera ants that were made through humans and not the absolute weakest ones. Point is all the ants they fought were superior to an average human by a mile.

the problem is your treating the chimera ants like rammot who is more so a mid tier ant actually like the norm( who was stronger than killua and gon at the time). The actual low tier ants can’t even see nen ( as shown in the video above) ultimately I’m not saying chimera ants can’t use nen more innately than humans but for the low end ones they wouldn’t be able to use nen that much more innately than humans and to begin with those are the ones killua, gon and kite were forced to fight.

Its not more likely??? lol. Why would Togashi make Gon and Killua nen crush ants when the point of these fights were for Kite to see how strong the duo was to determine if they could go with him to the nest of the chimera ants....

You say that but wouldn’t gon and killua just nen crushing the ants not only show how strong they are but wouldn’t that be the best way on how to gauge the ant threat as a whole? I don’t see how fist fighting them is a legitimately better gauge.

There are multiple explanations for it, firstly they clearly are better at nen than humans by a mile, even the lower ranked ones that have human traces within them, and the point of Gon and Killua fighting the ants was for Kite to assess their strength which wouldn't make sense if they just nen crushed them.

the foot soldiers arent anywhere close to rammot who was clearly labeled as a prodigy when it came to using nen. Ultimately I do not believe the foot soldiers are that much better at using nen than normal humans as there has been zero evidence to suggest that is the case.

It can easily be explained both of those ways, but your point is that it just doesn't work "on stronger opponents" is dumb.

You say my explanation is dumb but you do realize how ridiculous that there is zero explanation on why they aren’t even using ren in the first place to nen crush? Like you would think that such a powerful ability would eventually get brought up in the story and they would actually explain why they don’t do it but it’s obvious why that isn’t the case which because this is what a lot of manga writers tend to do. It’s again either togashi simply forget, wrote it out of the story or a in story explanation is that it doesn’t work on strong/superior opponents. A more ridiculous explanation is saying plot to or that it’s “ out ofcharacter“ when no other hunter besides gon, killua, kite even attempted it when they don’t even know ants can use nen Ie pike.

Are you suggesting the foot soilders are stronger than Gon and Killua? because they killed them quite easily, but still didn't nen crush them. So this point about "not working on stronger opponents" doesn't make sense with what you are trying to argue.

no my point is your just overrating a ability that has never even been showcased in the story. What your arguing is an entirely hypothetical scenario and it would be a nlf to suggest that somehow nen characters could kill someone as/more powerful than them because of that alone.

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PrinceX

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@dmnb2wavy:

the problem is your treating the chimera ants like rammot who is more so a mid tier ant actually like the norm( who was stronger than killua and gon at the time). The actual low tier ants can’t even see nen ( as shown in the video above) ultimately I’m not saying chimera ants can’t use nen more innately than humans but for the low end ones they wouldn’t be able to use nen that much more innately than humans and to begin with those are the ones killua, gon and kite were forced to fight.

So you acknowledge they have better innate nen? ok then... Rammot would be more like a mid-low end, squadron commanders are mid tier while high tier are royal guard and god tier is meruem. All the "foot soilders" that Gon and Killua faced looked like they had human traces, so they are not the bottom of the barrel. Like the Rhino guy is obviously somewhat human that the queen ate, they aren't the worst CA's. They definitly have better innate nen than a normal human..........

You say that but wouldn’t gon and killua just nen crushing the ants not only show how strong they are but wouldn’t that be the best way on how to gauge the ant threat as a whole? I don’t see how fist fighting them is a legitimately better gauge.

Not at all? what you're saying is just wrong. If Kite wanted to find out the fighting capabilities of the duo a simple nen crush wouldn't make sense to show of their fighting power. Togashi wrote it so they can show of their combat.

the foot soldiers arent anywhere close to rammot who was clearly labeled as a prodigy when it came to using nen. Ultimately I do not believe the foot soldiers are that much better at using nen than normal humans as there has been zero evidence to suggest that is the case.

Rommot is a low end chimera ant, not much better than the Rhino you linked that Killua fought. You really don't believe that they are better? Killua and Gon took months to learn 1 aspect of nen and they are 1/1000000 talent for a human. But low end Chimera ants does it in mere days? low end Chimera ants are waaay better at using nen. Meruem literally became stronger than any human ever at nen in weeks bar don freecess maybe who has lived 400 years plus.

Its so obvious the chimera ants have better innate nen than any human basically.

You say my explanation is dumb but you do realize how ridiculous that there is zero explanation on why they aren’t even using ren in the first place to nen crush?

There are multiple reasons like i have already explained, 1. Chimera ants just have a better natural innate usage of nen as shown with basically any chimera ant and how fast they can learn it in comparison to humans. 2. Because of plot, you will start crying at this, but it is the reality if you don't agree with the first point about chimera ants being way better at nen naturally. Togashi isn't just gonna make the main characters use a cheese ability to get rid of the low tiers, he has to show the progerssion of the ants and their powers to build up the stronger enemies later on. So it either comes down to chimera ants just being better or Togashi not wanting his series to suck through a cheese ability so he writes it how he wants.

Like you would think that such a powerful ability would eventually get brought up in the story and they would actually explain why they don’t do it but it’s obvious why that isn’t the case which because this is what a lot of manga writers tend to do. It’s again either togashi simply forget, wrote it out of the story or a in story explanation is that it doesn’t work on strong/superior opponents.

Ok lets look at this... you say "it doesn’t work on strong/superior opponents." And you refer to the low end chimera ants that Gon and Killua had no problem with.... You see how this doesn't make any sense at all???? your whole point is that "it doesn't work on stronger opponents" But you argue by using low tier chimera ants as an exmaple????

A more ridiculous explanation is saying plot to or that it’s “ out ofcharacter“ when no other hunter besides gon, killua, kite even attempted it when they don’t even know ants can use nen Ie pike.

Because none of them have ever tried it? lol. People like Hisoka, Pitou ect have done it in the series while the characters you point to have not.

no my point is your just overrating a ability that has never even been showcased in the story. What your arguing is an entirely hypothetical scenario and it would be a nlf to suggest that somehow nen characters could kill someone as/more powerful than them because of that alone.

Hax isn't nlf, even a building level character with hax can beat up universal level characters. Looking at WOU as an example, it beats Goku quite easily actually. Its not NLF.

And also i like how you didn't adress the fact that your whole arguments centers around "stronger opponents can resist it because its never been shown to work on them".

Let me say two things, hax isn't limited by AP or DC, this should be common knowledge by now.... Also you arguing for "it doesn’t work on strong/superior opponents." But never actually bring up that for your arguments, you say "Gon anjd Killua never used it on the foot soilders". Well, they are the weakest of them all and Gon and Killua smashed all the weakest ones..... So they are definitly stronger, i don't see how this relates to nen crush not being effective against a stronger opponent.

The only explanation is either point 1 or 2 that i pointed at, you're just trying to argue something dumb, Wing literally confirmed that it will kill them to try fighting against Hisoka's nen.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#23  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex:

Hax isn't nlf, even a building level character with hax can beat up universal level characters. Looking at WOU as an example, it beats Goku quite easily actually. Its not NLF.

quite literally everything about “nen crush” is a nfl. Not only is there quite literally zero examples in the story where it even kills a person the explanation the person gives of ren doesn’t even say it will outright kill you it just “ probably will” And this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters? We have no idea what even are the limitations of such a ability nor it is even being used in the story so yes this is again just a hypothetical scenario that has almost no evidence actually supporting it

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PrinceX

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@princex:

Hax isn't nlf, even a building level character with hax can beat up universal level characters. Looking at WOU as an example, it beats Goku quite easily actually. Its not NLF.

quite literally everything about “nen crush” is a nfl. Not only is there quite literally zero examples in the story where it even kills a person the explanation the person gives of ren doesn’t even say it will outright kill you it just “ probably will” And this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters? We have no idea what even are the limitations of such a ability nor it even being used in the story so yes this is again just a hypothetical scenario that has almost no evidence actually supporting it

concession accepted.

And again you fail to understand Hax > AP. It has nothing to do with AP yet you say stuff like:

"this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters?"

It has nothing to do with AP or durability, its a hax ability. so "stronger" means nothing.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#25  Edited By Dmnb2wavy
@princex said:
@dmnb2wavy said:

@princex:

Hax isn't nlf, even a building level character with hax can beat up universal level characters. Looking at WOU as an example, it beats Goku quite easily actually. Its not NLF.

quite literally everything about “nen crush” is a nfl. Not only is there quite literally zero examples in the story where it even kills a person the explanation the person gives of ren doesn’t even say it will outright kill you it just “ probably will” And this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters? We have no idea what even are the limitations of such a ability nor it even being used in the story so yes this is again just a hypothetical scenario that has almost no evidence actually supporting it

concession accepted.

And again you fail to understand Hax > AP. It has nothing to do with AP yet you say stuff like:

"this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters?"

It has nothing to do with AP or durability, its a hax ability. so "stronger" means nothing.

A hax ability where the explanation of the attack is it can “ probably kill you”. Doesn’t sound like a hax that can kill quite literally anyone lol and it also sounds like it surprisingly has limits? Shocker anyway with almost no evidence of it killing anyone in the story there is no way pitou is killing sukuna with it

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PrinceX

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@princex said:
@dmnb2wavy said:

@princex:

Hax isn't nlf, even a building level character with hax can beat up universal level characters. Looking at WOU as an example, it beats Goku quite easily actually. Its not NLF.

quite literally everything about “nen crush” is a nfl. Not only is there quite literally zero examples in the story where it even kills a person the explanation the person gives of ren doesn’t even say it will outright kill you it just “ probably will” And this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters? We have no idea what even are the limitations of such a ability nor it even being used in the story so yes this is again just a hypothetical scenario that has almost no evidence actually supporting it

concession accepted.

And again you fail to understand Hax > AP. It has nothing to do with AP yet you say stuff like:

"this is with hisoka who is vastly stronger than gon and killua at this point. How does a character saying an attack can “ probably kill you” give anyone the confidence to suggest weaker characters can use it to kill stronger characters?"

It has nothing to do with AP or durability, its a hax ability. so "stronger" means nothing.

A hax ability where the explanation of the attack is it can “ probably kill you”. Doesn’t sound like a hax that can kill quite literally anyone lol

It said "the effort alone will probably kill you" Wing a master of nen saying it means it causes death.... I don't see your points, Wing literally said the effort will kill them.

Anyways you failed to respond to any of my points.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#27  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex:

It said "the effort alone will probably kill you" Wing a master of nen saying it means it causes death.... I don't see your points, Wing literally said the effort will kill them.

Anyways you failed to respond to any of my points.

do you not understand what probably means?

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PrinceX

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@princex:

It said "the effort alone will probably kill you" Wing a master of nen saying it means it causes death.... I don't see your points, Wing literally said the effort will kill them.

Anyways you failed to respond to any of my points.

do you not understand what probably means?

I don't see the problem with Wing saying "fight it now and the effort alone will probably kill you"?

Wing also says "a defenseless person can be destroyed with a malicious attack, the only way to protect yourself against that is by using ten".

I don't see your point exactly.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#29  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex: is this not what you said?

“Wing literally said the effort will kill them

english do you speak it MF????? On a serious note there is a clear difference between wing saying IT will kill you and it can probably kill you. It’s the difference in me saying me getting shot in the head will definitely kill me and me getting punched in The head can probably kill me. Also it’s pretty obvious Your making these contradictions because you even understand the absurdity in trying to justify an attack to win an argument when the user even explains it can “probably kill you“ to begin with. besides that unless wing says that ren can quite literally kill you than there is no need to bring up the second explanation as it’s obvious that anyone can be destroyed if you don’t have nen vs a Ben user ( considering that’s the power in this universe)

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PrinceX

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#30  Edited By PrinceX
@dmnb2wavy said:

@princex: is this not what you said?

“Wing literally said the effort will kill them

english do you speak it MF????? On a serious note there is a clear difference between wing saying IT will kill you and it can probably kill you. It’s the difference in me saying me getting shot in the head will definitely kill me and me getting punched in The head can probably kill me. Also it’s pretty obvious Your making these contradictions because you even understand the absurdity in trying to justify an attack to win an argument when the user even explains it can “probably kill you“ to begin with. besides that unless wing says that ren can quite literally kill you than there is no need to bring up the second explanation as it’s obvious that anyone can be destroyed if you don’t have nen vs a Ben user ( considering that’s the power in this universe)

So you think Wing a nen master doesn't know what ren does to someone who doesn't have ten? you're wrong.

Wing also literally says "a defenseless person can be destroyed with a malicious aura attack. the only way to protect yourself against that is by using nen yourself" So he definitly knows what it does, your whole assumption is that Wing doesn't know, which is wrong.

There are 2 explanation for that, Wing doesn't know if Hisoka would truly kill them and thus says probably.

The second option: Wing thinks Hisoka's nen will open their nodes like Wing did with them, but he did it without malicious intent.

Your whole point is that Wing a nen master and teacher really doesn't know what Ren does to a human? you don't think he learned that as a nen master and teacher?

All the assumptions you make aren't making sense, it all reliez on Wing not knowing what the nen will do to them?????

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Dmnb2wavy

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#32  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@princex: first i think your mistaken it’s because wing is a master that his explanation of ren being able to “ possibly kill you” is why this debate should not go beyond this point truth be told. It’s clear wing a master nen user established limits to ren and your explanations just contradict what is actually canon( especially because there are no instances of ren even killing people to say wing explanation is incorrect)

second you talk about my explanations not making sense but your assumptions are so far in the deep end that it’s obvious your reaching. Like seriously do you notice how you have to give like 3 different over complicate explanations that are no where to be found or supported in the story? Like cmon how tf does wing know whether or not a psycho like hisoka would kill them or not? Why would wing think hisoka nen would open their nodes even tho wing not trying to send negative aura to jumpstart their nodes is still especially dangerous? all in all when it comes to finding the true a simple explanation is more than usually right than a truth where you have to make so many baseless assumptions to get it. In the end the possibility of ren simply not outright killing you ( as wing implied) is alot more of a possible explanation than wing saying that because he thinks hisoka won’t kill them even tho He doesn’t even know hisoka like that.

the funny part of this whole debate is that your argument hinges on a statement that is as direct as possible in saying it can “ probably kill you” and yet your arguing as if its guaranteed. fans never cease to amazement on how they can wank their own series to absurd lvls.

ill end this the debate here because it’s obvious we are just going in circles

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StrawDiv

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@princex said:

Pitou blitzes? Also how does Sukuna not instantly get nen crushed? Pitou stunned both Gon and Killua as a newborn with her aura alone. I don't think Sukuna can resist it....

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PrinceX

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#34  Edited By PrinceX

@dmnb2wavy:

first i think your mistaken it’s because wing is a master that his explanation of ren being able to “ possibly kill you” is why this debate should not go beyond this point truth be told. It’s clear wing a master nen user established limits to ren and your explanations just contradict what is actually canon( especially because there are no instances of ren even killing people to say wing explanation is incorrect)

This does not make sense at all.... YOur whole point is grounded in the fact that Wing a nen master and teacher does not know what nen would do to a normal person. Yet he lecturs both Gon and Killua on the fact that nen is dangerous to normal human beings. He also talks to zushi about being careful about teaching it to people because of how dangerous it is to people.

He also says this. Yet you think Wing wouldn't know what ren does to a normal human?? The assumption that Wing wouldn't know this very important fact about nen, as a nen teacher + him literally teaching Gon and Killua the same fact?

second you talk about my explanations not making sense but your assumptions are so far in the deep end that it’s obvious your reaching. Like seriously do you notice how you have to give like 3 different over complicate explanations that are no where to be found or supported in the story? Like cmon how tf does wing know whether or not a psycho like hisoka would kill them or not? Why would wing think hisoka nen would open their nodes even tho wing not trying to send negative aura to jumpstart their nodes is still especially dangerous? all in all when it comes to finding the true a simple explanation is more than usually right than a truth where you have to make so many baseless assumptions to get it. In the end the possibility of ren simply not outright killing you ( as wing implied) is alot more of a possible explanation than wing saying that because he thinks hisoka won’t kill them even tho He doesn’t even know hisoka like that.

They make way more sense than assuming Wing a nen master not knowing how nen interacts with a defenseless human despite teaching Gon and Killua this exact same thing? Also

At first Wing didn't even wanna teach them because of how dangerous nen could be. Also the fact that Wing literally explains what ren does to a person right after he said the line about killing.

I would actually say there is a 0% chance that WIng wouldn't know what ren does, this is what your whole argument is grounded on.

the funny part of this whole debate is that your argument hinges on a statement that is as direct as possible in saying it can “ probably kill you” and yet your arguing as if its guaranteed. fans never cease to amazement on how they can wank their own series to absurd lvls.

Look at the context about why its the case, your assumption that Wing doesn't know what ren does is just wrong.

ill end this the debate here because it’s obvious we are just going in circles

Again you run away?

Second concession accepted.'

You couldn't answer the first post where you tried to make the claim that "nen crsuh doesn't work on stronger opponents" and your argument was Gon and Klillua didn't use it on the weakest chimera ants that they beat that were weaker than them lol. And now your whole point hinges on the fact that Wing wouldn't know what ren does despite explaining this exact thing to Gon and Killua. Its based on a false assumption that is clearly wrong.

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uchihaghost

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#35  Edited By uchihaghost

Arguing Nen crush is like arguing reiatsu crush or magic energy crush (SDS) in a balanced setting all are irrelevant unless the character is massively stronger than his/her opponent in which case, the matchup is a spite matchup to begin with.

Sukuna slices and dices, make this mereum and it will be a better fight.

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defiant_will

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Grateful that Prince been holding things down, it's bogus that Sukuna is being put above HxH high tiers in big 2024.

Pito blitzes Sukuna and Nen crushes Sukuna.

Sukuna isn't faster than Pito. Period. Saying "Pito is only faster by fan calcs" is a weird argument. Pito has speed feats, if we actually quantify them, they are faster than anything Sukuna has to offer. Unless you can cite a specific grievance with a calc methodology or the math (spoilers: you can't), there's no issue.

Pito's leap:

No Caption Provided

For context, the Chimera Ant Nest that Pitou leaped from boasts absolutely colossal sizes, easily thousands upon thousands of meters high. Using angular sizing, and factoring in the height of this structure, we get a distance of roughly 25 kilometers (can show calcs if needed). And in all honesty, that fits the scene like a glove. We can see entire lakes running within that distance, and the sheer breadth of the topography coincides with a 25 kilometer area. As far as timeframe, goes, the most conservative is irl human reaction time (which is an insane lowball considering we're taking about Hunters here). This comes out to MHS. And there are several calcs I can link getting MHS results for this if need be.

____

The Nen crush discourse is stupid. People have this weird habit of forgetting how hax works when it comes to specific verses. In the case of HxH, Nen crush IS a mental attack. It is an explicit statement that Malicious aura destroys the minds of those without Nen defenses. It's a mental attack. And as has always been the case, in order to resist a mental attack you need mental resistances.

And it's not like Pito doesn't have feats literally demonstrating this. Against Palm, Pito's En literally drove her to attempt suicide and gave her a mental breakdown.

Palm's mental breakdown is compared to a doll breaking apart. That is what Pito's En did to her. Mind you, Palm has Nen, so she already has a layer of defense against malicious aura, Pito's was just so potent it circumvented it.

Sukuna has zero defense against mental attacks, let alone on the scale of Pito's. There's nothing to say he'd even resist a Nen flex from someone like Hisoka.

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defiant_will

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Arguing Nen crush is like arguing reiatsu crush or magic energy crush (SDS) in a balanced setting all are irrelevant unless the character is massively stronger than his/her opponent in which case, the matchup is a spite matchup to begin with.

Sukuna slices and dices, make this mereum and it will be a better fight.

1) No it isn't. Show me a scan that explicitly states that Nen crush only works on massively weaker characters. That scan doesn't exist because Nen crush is explicitly a mental attack. In HxH, characters defend themselves against malicious aura with their own Nen.

Sukuna doesn't have Nen or any mental resistances to speak of, so he fairs no better than the "weaker" characters Pito Nen crushed.

2) Sukuna is a damn snail compared to Pito, the only slicing and dicing happening is when Pito tears Sukuna limb from limb.

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defiant_will

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@princex said:

Pitou blitzes? Also how does Sukuna not instantly get nen crushed? Pitou stunned both Gon and Killua as a newborn with her aura alone. I don't think Sukuna can resist it....

The same Gon and Killua that in Heavens Arena could walk through Hisoka's bloodlust, which in it of itself could paralyze Nenless Gon and Killua and would've killed them if they even tried to resist it.

There are layers to these mental attacks that people here are clearly forgetting. Sukuna is so short of mental resistance feats that you can't even argue him resisting Hisoka's Nen flex, let alone Pito's

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nwname

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#40 nwname  Moderator

Grateful that Prince been holding things down, it's bogus that Sukuna is being put above HxH high tiers in big 2024.

Pito blitzes Sukuna and Nen crushes Sukuna.

Sukuna isn't faster than Pito. Period. Saying "Pito is only faster by fan calcs" is a weird argument. Pito has speed feats, if we actually quantify them, they are faster than anything Sukuna has to offer. Unless you can cite a specific grievance with a calc methodology or the math (spoilers: you can't), there's no issue.

Pito's leap:

No Caption Provided

For context, the Chimera Ant Nest that Pitou leaped from boasts absolutely colossal sizes, easily thousands upon thousands of meters high. Using angular sizing, and factoring in the height of this structure, we get a distance of roughly 25 kilometers (can show calcs if needed). And in all honesty, that fits the scene like a glove. We can see entire lakes running within that distance, and the sheer breadth of the topography coincides with a 25 kilometer area. As far as timeframe, goes, the most conservative is irl human reaction time (which is an insane lowball considering we're taking about Hunters here). This comes out to MHS. And there are several calcs I can link getting MHS results for this if need be.

____

The Nen crush discourse is stupid. People have this weird habit of forgetting how hax works when it comes to specific verses. In the case of HxH, Nen crush IS a mental attack. It is an explicit statement that Malicious aura destroys the minds of those without Nen defenses. It's a mental attack. And as has always been the case, in order to resist a mental attack you need mental resistances.

And it's not like Pito doesn't have feats literally demonstrating this. Against Palm, Pito's En literally drove her to attempt suicide and gave her a mental breakdown.

Palm's mental breakdown is compared to a doll breaking apart. That is what Pito's En did to her. Mind you, Palm has Nen, so she already has a layer of defense against malicious aura, Pito's was just so potent it circumvented it.

Sukuna has zero defense against mental attacks, let alone on the scale of Pito's. There's nothing to say he'd even resist a Nen flex from someone like Hisoka.

How can you angsize without knowing the angle?

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Kisukez

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Damn, Defiant Will came in ready for blood.

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CryoLancer47

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I'm afraid Gege's lover annihilates here.

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kingogkings777

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Wait is nen crush a real thing?

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JoshTaku

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I want to say that pitou wins, but given the parameters of the fight, I think Sukuna would take it more often than not.

Bloodlusted Sukuna would instantly go for malevolent shrine, which pitou would be helpless against given she has no instant healing to speak of. Pitou, in character, would likely mess around and not take the fight seriously from the get go. She might realize the gravity of the situation once Sukuna starts up his domain but by the. it would be too late.

Much like Sukuna doesn't have defenses to nen crush, Pitou would not have any defense against cleave and dismantle without any cursed energy reinforcement at least.

But there is an argument tl be made that Pitou, with her hard carapace, can withstand the slashes long enough to either blitz sukuna within the domain or get out of its effective range.

Another win con would be if she does get her head cut off then she would come back faster and stronger post mortem and blitz through that. But that's moreso a draw at best.

So, if Sukuna can activate his domain first and start slashing before Pitou can even think of getting serious, then he wins. But if pitou does have her massive nen aura active from the start and it so much as grazes sukuna, he won't be moving.

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PackWatcher

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Sukuna crushes some mad puss.

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uchihaghost

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#46  Edited By uchihaghost

@defiant_will: it is common across fiction, some more profound than others

> toriko (intimidation)

> bleach (reiatsu crush)

> hxh (Nen crush)

> One piece (Conquerors haki)

> Part 1 Naruto (killing intent) then kishi disgarded it

> NNT (magic crush)

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All of this usually happen when characters are on different tiers, its useless in matchups cuz if a person is much stronger than his/her opponent and can use any of the regular energy incapacitation method, it means the same character does not really need the energy incapacitation method as his/her only win con and can body without it, so using it as the only means of victory means the character themselves are not strong enough to win without it, which comes down to general energy levels.

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SoySpirit

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Sukuna easily

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rizaadxn

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@uchihaghost: this is something that even exists in MHA, AFO's killing intent caused the students to see images of their own corpses, Tomura's killing intent overpowered a Quirk that empowered the physical and mental state of an army. It does not, however, work on characters of equal power footing.

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uchihaghost

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@rizaadxn: yeaup exactly, difference verse, same concept.

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pics

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#50  Edited By pics

@uchihaghost:

You’re saying absolutely nothing of value here. Some of these examples is you trying to discredit applications of mental attacks because of other examples in other series, but that’s not how that works. Malicious Nen is explicitly a mental attack the method to countering it is having Nen defenses to prevent destroying the mind as stated in the series and in Pitou’s case, sometimes that isn’t even enough. So examples like

1. Reiatsu Crush which absolutely does work on a spiritual aspect and Aizen who particularly is so adept with it can abuse it. Anyone arguing Reiatsu crush crossverse is fine to do so

2. Conquerors Haki is also a stated mental attack. Nothing to do with “energy levels” and for crossverse purposes is easily applicable. It also HAS worked on opponents stronger than them.

3. Chakra bloodlust being applicable crossverse is fine as well, if it’s something that’s underutilized, that’s also fine.

Inherently, your argument is fallacious. What allows a series to counteract an outright ability doesn’t always mean it’s applicable crossverse. Malicious Aura in this instance is a MENTAL attack, Nen allows you to block MENTAL attacks. That is a feat for them, it has nothing to do with your power level it has to do with Nen being able to explicitly fend off a mental application of an ability. Hence why Gon and Killua can get past Hisoka’s Nen despite being TIERS weaker. That has nothing to do with power levels.