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#101 Edited by Matthew660 (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

He could beat all the teams except maybe naruto sasuke and Sakura due to Sakura’s healing. But all the asuma, kurenai, and gai teams, Superman curbs them. You’re not about to tell me if part one Sakura can break out of ino’s mind transfer, that Superman can’t. And don’t even get me started on shikamaru’s shadow jutsu lmao. He could also beat most of the akatsuki, except Obito, itachi, Orochimaru, Kisame(possibly), and Nagato. Maybe deidra’s self destruct could hurt him? Idk

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#102 Posted by Cergic (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

I was giving examples, shooting from the hip. Im at work and i dont feel like doing an all out debunk of every instance there was conflict pre-shippuden. Should be somewhat reasonable of me, right?

You are kind of solidifying my point though. Almost everything in naruto is conditional and requires context. Fact remains that Chuunin and Genin alike constantly dies by one sword stroke or two shuriken tips in their backs. You get my point. I dont have an issue with the claims regarding who would kill whom who wouldn't but the genin wanking is plain stupid.

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#103 Edited by uchihaghost (450 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably sasori, supes can punch iron sand like sakura did, he can see the core of his heart and use vision on it, supes will also not be affected by sasori's needles and weapons. He should also be able to mop the floor with beginning of shippuden sakura and BOS naruto without kurama transformations. IMO he should be around war arc sakura without byakugou activated.

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#104 Edited by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star: It’s actually only 10x

And that feat doesn’t put him over Superman who pulled a 26,000 ton ship through artic ice. Superman has every advantage imaginable over Jirobo and Choji. Even if Choji decides to use the red pill, he doesn’t have the damage output to put Clark down for good before dying.

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#105 Posted by great_black_star (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic said:

@great_black_star:

I was giving examples, shooting from the hip. Im at work and i dont feel like doing an all out debunk of every instance there was conflict pre-shippuden. Should be somewhat reasonable of me, right?

You are kind of solidifying my point though. Almost everything in naruto is conditional and requires context. Fact remains that Chuunin and Genin alike constantly dies by one sword stroke or two shuriken tips in their backs. You get my point. I dont have an issue with the claims regarding who would kill whom who wouldn't but the genin wanking is plain stupid.

Ninja died of Swords and Kunai because its an story of NInja?....

If you know Gaara's sand bullet which has busted Trees and pierce through them like nothing fails to even scratch kid Naruto's skin. But kunai are lethal to them. You must know what that means.

And I mostly agrees that Clark can stomp most of the gennins but you choose Choji and Jirobo, who can stepped on clark.

And nobody is wanking gennin.

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#106 Posted by great_black_star (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star: It’s actually only 10x

And that feat doesn’t put him over Superman who pulled a 26,000 ton ship through artic ice. Superman has every advantage imaginable over Jirobo and Choji. Even if Choji decides to use the red pill, he doesn’t have the damage output to put Clark down for good before dying.

My bad.

Supes does pulled a ship, but lifting strength and striking feat are two different things. Choji and Jirobo's striking feat dwarf Clarks by far.

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#107 Edited by Cergic (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

No shit it's about Ninjas.

My obvious point is that sword strikes and shuriken tips somehow oneshots them (i get it, you believe that ever throw is done with superhuman force but those thrown weapons which are lethal never pierce treebark in the show pre-shipp so that is obviously moot), but people in the thread argue that supes cannot simulate that output. Read the thread.

Regarding "why": its because its inconsistent, part of a whole scenario and meant to tell a story. The series is filled with inconsistencies and that is fine, but it is still cannon. There are high and low end feats and it still happened. Gennins and everyone in the actual show pre-shipp are being highballed in this thread, and i am not going to think that you lack the reading comprehension to see that for yourself.

Edit: i am not saying everyone wanks gennins. But the wanking can be traced to some posts, and furthermore to attributes and skills which even low gennin can access.

We seem to partially agree regardless.

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#108 Posted by great_black_star (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic:

Already told you, this is a story about ninja so Kunai and Swords have to be relevant. Then again, those instances shouldn't be used to lowballed these characters.

And we all know those kunai and swords were used by experts having superhuman strength.

And this a debate forum, ofcourse people are going to use their high showing rather than low showing. If we are talking about low showing, comic characters like Supes has been hurt by street levelers, Flash has been tagged by street levelers etc.

See, that is the point, we shouldn't use their low showing to downplay.

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#109 Posted by B_r023 (5303 posts) - - Show Bio

Part 1 Konohamaru.

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#110 Posted by Cergic (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

But i don't downplay. Canonically, Chuunin dodge thrown kunais and shurikens which are lethal on impact that misses and hits trees without even entering them more than like three inches.

Supes can do more damage than that, and he is faster than they are thrown.

Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you actually not getting my point.

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#111 Posted by great_black_star (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic said:

@great_black_star:

But i don't downplay. Canonically, Chuunin dodge thrown kunais and shurikens which are lethal on impact that misses and hits trees without even entering them more than like three inches.

Supes can do more damage than that, and he is faster than they are thrown.

Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you actually not getting my point.

Its like you are incapable of story's mechanics. Its a story of ninjas.

Yes, they dodge kunai and shuriken that barely penetrate trees, but are you going to ignore the fact that attacks that busted through humongous trees and steel constructs like nothing barely faze them too. You are just fixated on a particular aspect of the story, and downplaying them.

Supes damage output is nowhere near Choji or Jirobo, who aren't even the strongest in Part 1. Besides Supes doesn't used Kunai or Shuriken or any cutting or piercing attacks so your whole argument is kinda moot.

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#112 Edited by Cergic (849 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

Stop repeating what i said. Read post 107. Then Go back a page and read the first comment i made to see the original gripe i raised. It is transparently clear that the parameters are being shifted towards something i am uninterested in discussing, and i dont think its possible for me to be any more clear about my take on this without coming off as a douche. If you still cannot connect the dots, it's no use.

And if you really want to be 'that' obtuse, then pretend that superman pokes at the tree. Voila, so called 'piercing' of the tree. He can use his fingers.

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#113 Posted by Earendill (758 posts) - - Show Bio

Part 1 Kiba

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#114 Posted by EcoBlitz (3297 posts) - - Show Bio
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#115 Posted by GateOfBabylon (3241 posts) - - Show Bio

Chapter 1 Sakura.

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#116 Posted by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

I definitely think they’re stronger but only in their strongest form. And Superman is still faster than both of them. Not to mention Superman can oneshot with Heat vision

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#117 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Any Part 1 Character

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#118 Posted by SuperGoku17 (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

Karin

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#119 Posted by Chronicplane (8042 posts) - - Show Bio

Part 1 Rock Lee at absolute max, Clark is a weakling and sucks compared to anyone notable in Naruto.

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#120 Posted by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronicplane: I’ve got him beating Deidara, Kisame, Hidan, and Sasori

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#121 Posted by Noone1996 (10420 posts) - - Show Bio

He gets wrecked by most part 2 characters. A bunch of part 1 ninjas can beat him.

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#122 Posted by great_black_star (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star:

I definitely think they’re stronger but only in their strongest form. And Superman is still faster than both of them. Not to mention Superman can oneshot with Heat vision

Heat vision's best feat is struggling to cut a steal beam. Its not going to oneshot them, ofcourse it will harm them but no going to kill or KO the.

My intention on my response isn't to prove they will win, but to correct @cergic's negligence on Part 1 Naruto characters.

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#123 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicvinepoozer1:

and yet both kakashi and kabuto have various genjutsu feats.

kurenai kept up with itachi for a few, she will take supey. besides superman is supersonic,,thats less than part one base lees (genin) speed.

bunta took a hit from shukakus renkudan, he'll be just fine.

gaara will do to him the same thing that happened to kimimaro or go shukaku and let shukaku kill him.

...

lee stomps

no they are part one only. and luffy id what now.

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#124 Posted by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el:

1. They don’t use Genjutsu regularly so that doesn’t mean much

2. No she didn’t.

Superman is way faster than supersonic

3. Gaara sand has no feats to suggest he’d keep Superman down. And he wouldn’t go Shukaku willingly

4. No he doesn’t

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#125 Posted by CallMeBlast (1804 posts) - - Show Bio

Dies in part 1

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#126 Posted by xZone (7885 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicvinepoozer1: Well, you’re wrong. Clark is never beating Hidan or Kisame at current levels 🤦🏼‍♂️

X

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#127 Posted by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: thank you for very insightful post. Definitely a great contribution to the discussion.

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#128 Posted by comicvinepoozer1 (6236 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: what exactly can Hidan do against Kal? I understand how Kisame is Debatable, but Hidan is not. At all.

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#129 Posted by diydeath (2095 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to meme here...but this ptobably stops at Itachi via Susano'o, Superman in Man of Steel or BvS might have taken the hit. JL Superman casually dodges and oneshots though.

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#130 Posted by LoveEveryone (666 posts) - - Show Bio

BVS Superman =/ Kakuzu / Rasenshuriken

JL Superman =/ Deva Path Pain / Sage Mode Naruto

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#131 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicvinepoozer1: kurenai does.

2.she did, actually she dodged a swipe and blocked a kick. Itachis combat speed is at kakashis level (far above lightning).

3. Gaara did that once against naruto, and being buried about 200 feat in the ground by sand thats harder that tempered steel will hold dceu superman.

4. ... Sorry for the late reply.

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#132 Posted by Streak619 (6842 posts) - - Show Bio

Sasuke slaughters him.

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#133 Edited by ourmanuel (6311 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi maybe(assuming he doesn’t genjutsu gg)

But due to speed, I’m inclined to say Hidan/kakuzu.

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#134 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: when did dceu superman reach lightning tier.

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#135 Posted by ourmanuel (6311 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: when kakuzu didn’t dodge lightning ever and was fighting a bit on par with people like choking and his team.

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#136 Edited by Gracetrack (4538 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes defeats every last one of them. They have nothing that can damage him in any meaningful way. Catch him in a genjutsu, then what? They can't hurt him. Only one who might have been able to is Kakashi with kamui, but he doesn't have that ability anymore.

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#137 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: he whipped kakashi... Kakashi was a lightning timer at the age of 13.... Kakuzu whipped the adult version nay blitzed.

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#138 Edited by ourmanuel (6311 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: kakshi’s lightning timing “feat” is questionable at best considering we don’t know how it happened or the circumstances surrounding it, and he has a shit ton of anti feats after throughout 99% of the series.

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#139 Posted by deactivated-5c0b19c56d708 (624 posts) - - Show Bio

prolly Hidan Idk

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#140 Posted by RuinedUrGurl (92 posts) - - Show Bio

Clears till eos top teirs

How you ask sure

Orbital heat vision

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#141 Posted by Myleftbuttcheeksolos (206 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't believe I get to say this. DCEU supes solos the verse.

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#142 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: what antifeats, the manga stated it the anime showed it.

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#143 Posted by TheOriginalOne (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: The anti feat with his getting tagged by characters like Zabuza, struggling to see 4 gates lee, who was barely above the speed of sound, etc etc.

The anime showing it doesn't mean shit as that was a non-canon incident.

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#144 Posted by Streak619 (6842 posts) - - Show Bio

There are no real anti feats against Kakashi.

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#145 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone:

Getting hit by zabuza (a fellow jounin)... How is this anti.

He never struggled to see lee, he simply used sharingan. Plus sasuke (chunin exam version) was able to outstrip explosions, and he is weightless lee tier, how is fourth gate lee barely sound, are you quoting a filler episode in part one where gai and lee fought puppets of each other?

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#146 Posted by Subline (4427 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Goku.

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#147 Edited by TheOriginalOne (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: Because Zabuza wasn't a lightning timer. He was seen and tagged multiple times by Naruto and Sasuke. There are other people who are jounin as well, that doesn't mean shit.

LMAO, that is struggling to see Lee. The fact that he used his sharingan is literally telling you that. That suggest he had to use his sharingan just to keep up. And Lee, at that time, was nowhere lightning speed.

Outrunning unknown explosions is not a speed feat as many fodder characters were able to do that. If you at his feats that came after, his fight with Hidan, Kakuzu, one of the Pains and even a mind controlled Itachi look-alike body, you will see he was nowhere near a lightning timer.

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#148 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone:

post a single scan of naruto or sasuke tagging zabuza in an exchange. Not a thrown shuriken when zabuza literally cant move.

he wanted to copy the little geniuses taijutsu. didn't say lee is lightning speed.

Outstripping multiplying explosions is a feat, stop this denial.

kakuzu is the giy who fought hashirama and was able to boast about it 80 years later, him whipping kakashi is just right, and the itachi look alike body was less in power and jutsu not stats. Plus when did kakashi get tagged fight fake itachi.

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#149 Edited by TheOriginalOne (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

@theoriginalone:

post a single scan of naruto or sasuke tagging zabuza in an exchange. Not a thrown shuriken when zabuza literally cant move.

Sorry but what feats does Zabuza have that make him able to touch Kakashi, as many times as he did? And don't say he is a fellow Jounin, that is not a stamp of similar or equal power.

he wanted to copy the little geniuses taijutsu. didn't say lee is lightning speed.

Lmao, this is straight up wrong. He used his sharingan to track lee and his movements, that is why he was able to see that Lee was tearing his muscles in the process. He had to as he couldn't keep up with his regular eye.

Why would he be trying to copy's lee movement without any mention?

Outstripping multiplying explosions is a feat, stop this denial.

Explosions of unknown speed that even fodder have been able to react to.

kakuzu is the giy who fought hashirama and was able to boast about it 80 years later, him whipping kakashi is just right, and the . Plus when did kakashi get tagged fight fake itachi.

So, just because a ninja fights Hash means he is Hash's speed? Tsunade was able to fight Madara, does that mean she is his speed as well? Hinata was fighting Pain, does that mean she is his speed as well? You are talking about an off-panel fight, where anything could have happened. ANYTHING. He could have gotten whooped and then just ran away.

Huh? "itachi look alike body was less in power and jutsu not stats" - are you high right now? Kisame mentions that they only gave the look-alikes 30% chakra and Itachi even mentions that the strength and jutsu are limited. This includes speed as in Naruto, chakra enhanced speed, reactions, etc etc. So you are still incorrect, the stats were NOWHERE the same.

No Caption Provided

Also, I didn't say Kakashi got tagged, I meant Kakashi couldn't tag a Itachi clone with only 30% of his power. And that is after launching as sneak attack on him. Heck, this Itachi even managed to grab Kakashi's clone's head and pull him closer which even surpassed Kakashi himself.

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#150 Posted by Zuriel-el (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: to be honest, I'm sick of this, the hell do u mean what feats does zabuza have, what feats did raikage have before he beat the crapnof of ms sasuke. This is straight up stupid. Zabuza is the very first actual villain they come across at the beginning of the series, his feat is tagging kakashi and beating him not for the interference from two genin who got the better of him because his jutsu required him to stand still.

did he say he was using sharingan to track lees movements, he unraveled his sharingan after hearing lee could use hachimon tonko. He didnt start using it after lee started moving, your point fails.

Explosions are hypersonic dude, whats this suppose to mean, if superman catches a bullet would me saying a bullet of unknown speed mean anything.

Kakuzu fought hashirama alone unlike tsunade that was in a team, not to mention tsunade with byakugou no in active was able to go up against him because she could survive his attacks. Kakuzu was there to assassinate hashirama he didnt bhave a team. Hinata didnt get blitzed now did she, and if anything escaping a powerhouse like hashirama is a great feat.

If normal chakra increased stats then naruto would have been faster than kakashi from part one, and sasuje wouldnt need taijutsu training, sakura wouldnt pun h harder than sasuke, and hashirama would be faster than minato. Plus kakashi was never tagged by itachi in that fight, heck kakashi trapped him and had naruto kill him. Not an anti feat.

Kakashi was being careful of his tsukiyomi, and how does defeating a clone surpass a kakashi who didnt go all out, no mangekyou or chidori variants involved throughout the battle.

That you hate a character doesn't make the character weak.