Strongest Naruto or Bleach character Zoro and Mihawk can defeat.

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samconery

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#51  Edited By samconery

Killer Bee & Nagato.

Killer bee maybe, nagato not a chance

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Full123

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Asurakj

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Cosmic_Lantern

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#54  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

@full123: Kuramas attacks span over mountain ranges, Zoro nor Mihawk don't have that type of range nor have they ever dealt with an explosion of that magnitude, they aren't cutting a BB and tbh they really don't have the feats to react to one in the first place.

Sand isn't a solid like stone or ice so cutting mountain level (lol @ hill level when it completely encased Madaras Incomplete susanoo and made it look small) sand constructs isn't really going to do much when Shukaku can just drop an AoE in them and compress it like nothing.

Than either you're ignorant on the series or just highballing OP and disregarding other feats like you do in other threads. One 'mountain' splitting feat does not place Zoro at Biju level, nor Mihawk for splitting a wave. That is absolutely asinine and almost any of the Biju would dominate them without the need of using a BB as they simply have better feats.

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samconery

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@full123 said:

@samconery: Why? Killer Bee>Nagato.

Killer bee was finding it difficult to beat a body controlled nagato with the help of itachi and tailed beast mode naruto.

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Kallekazikaze

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@kallekazikaze said:

Killer Bee & Nagato.

Killer bee maybe, nagato not a chance

more speed, much more casual high level attacks ensures them a win.

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Asurakj

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Grimjaw

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Raziel2014

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#58  Edited By Raziel2014

idk why people keep on putting mihawk slicing mountain or zorro, they are swordsman is what they do, you cant compare a swordsman vs a ninja or shinigami on what they do best which is cut shit, you dont see garp or luffy breaking mountains via light punch because their skill set are completely different, while mihawk can slice mountains you dont see him doing everytime he fights because long range moves are usually weaker than close up slices, newbies get to emotional with slicing feats when a true swordsman in ONe piece usually fight close combat., mihawk is much better than whitebeard and basically all of the emperors when it comes to cutting shit because he is a swordsman, it still doesnt change the fact that he would lose against whitebeard.

the strongest character Zorro can defeat is probably Nagato/Pain as for bleach the lower tier captain are also beatable by zorro, while Mihawk is probably EMS madara, not enough feats for mihawk but he should be stronger than Doflamingo which already puts him above pain/nagato, if people think madara feat with giant susanoo is amazing just imagine mihawk with a sword 50 meters in height and being a giant would do, he probably cut the entire continent, normies are too easily amazed by giant destruction feats that is laughable

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Adi_Frost

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#59  Edited By Adi_Frost

I also think they are nagato level / killer bee (without the full form of 8 tails) . I don't think they can actually beat nagato and his hax but they are surely up on that tier .

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Westwood_Trevor

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Top Tier Captains.

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Cosmic_Lantern

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I'm sticking with Mei.

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Thenewguysnm1

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I'm sticking with Mei.

what u think mei temei can be these two together r u drunk lol

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HitTheAssasin

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@cosmic_lantern: wut? Mihawk and Zoro can honestly solo the Raikage, let alone fodder Mei. I'd say Itachi+ Kisame probs.

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Chair-Sama

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@chair-sama said:

@kallekazikaze:

lmfao, what he cut in that scan looks to be able to the same size of one of the buddha's hands.

as soon as he cuts it off, the other 999 of them will come literally squash him like a bug.

Point is CASUAL and RANGE of the SHOCKWAVES.

and? madara in just normal PS is a very casual mountain buster. the dude split open 2-3 mountains in a single sword swing just to show off his sussano to the pages.

this is the same guy that had to take control of a tailed beast and STILL barely even managed to hold out against hashirama.

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Captain_Redfists

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Zoro's strongest definitive win is against the full power Shukaku, though he can beat people as strong as Base Hashirama given the right conditions.

From what we've seen, Mihawk is around Ninetails level. He's favored in any matchup that exists in the standard Narutoverse, losing 100% to 1st form Ten Tails and above.

I agree with this.

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Cosmic_Lantern

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@thenewguysnm1: @hittheassasin: The fact you say Kisame when Mei is more versatile and can use suiton on a similar level (without a water source at that, which makes it even more impressive) leads me to believe neither of you know what you're talking about. Being able to pressure MS Sasuke and Edo Madara by default puts her in a speed tier above theirs.

Lol @ the raikage, I could legitimately make a case for Zoro nor Mihawk putting a scratch on the 3rd let alone touching him in combat since he can evade KCM. Even the 4th would body this team, saying they would stomp him is unfounded.

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Thenewguysnm1

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#67  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

@cosmic_lantern said:

@thenewguysnm1: @hittheassasin: The fact you say Kisame when Mei is more versatile and can use suiton on a similar level (without a water source at that, which makes it even more impressive) leads me to believe neither of you know what you're talking about. Being able to pressure MS Sasuke and Edo Madara by default puts her in a speed tier above theirs

Lol @ the raikage, I could legitimately make a case for Zoro nor Mihawk putting a scratch on the 3rd let alone touching him in combat since he can evade KCM. Even the 4th would body this team, saying they would stomp him is unfounded.

.

lol imma debunk u real quick

1 kismae fought guy and bee so saying mei is faster is ridiculous two

2 kismae has displayed more and greater water style

3 she is not on his level like at all

4 i know what im talking bout

5 she didnt pressure him they fought for a bit and it was all mid to long range stuff there was no speed involved at all also madara was playing around lol

6 no you could not make a case as by feats and scaling both of them are in a completely different speed tier as kalifla dogged lighting she was the weakest cp9 zoro fought and tagged the second strongest he then trained for two years amping himself bare min times 3 and he is still weaker then mihawk also remember that by this time not many characters bar itachi has any speed feats near lighting so long story short any kage not named naruto,hashirama or bm minato get bplitzed and stomped by these guys

7 4th would get beat by enel lol

8 they do stomp

its ludicrous comments like these which is why many view you as a massive naruto wanler your still a good debater though.

on topic together they could maybe beat ems madara if not they cap at around bsm naruto level though any1 sm hahirama and up wins handily they also would have an epic match with nagato

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HitTheAssasin

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@cosmic_lantern:

The fact you say Kisame

I said Kisame and Itachi, but whatever.

when Mei is more versatile and can use suiton on a similar level (without a water source at that, which makes it even more impressive)

Wait, wut? Mei hasn't demonstrated any Water Style even close to Kisame's huge water bubble nor his great shark bomb.

leads me to believe neither of you know what you're talking about.

This coming from the guy that thinks fodder Mei can pressure Mihawk is kinda lol worthy.

Being able to pressure MS Sasuke and Edo Madara by default puts her in a speed tier above theirs.

Lmao.Lmao.

>weakest CP9 member dodges and reacts to lightning multiple times.

>Zoro matches significantly stronger/faster CP9 member in speed

>Zoro's speed massively increases over the time skip, proportionally to Luffy's

>He's still probs slower than Mihawk

Post time skip Strawhats are way beyond lightning speed, they could outspend the Raikage, let alone Mei fodder, who has no speed feats in the first place.

Lol @ the raikage, I could legitimately make a case for Zoro nor Mihawk putting a scratch on the 3rd

God. Oh God, the wank.

Mihawk casually performs at Mountain level, the Raikage was damaged by a Rasenshuriken and was murdered by his own fodder level piercing attack, which has no feats even close to Mihawks casual slashes, he would one-shot the 3rd Raikage.

let alone touching him in combat since he can evade KCM.

KCM is at best pre-skip Luffy level in speed tbh, he was about equal to the Raikage who is lightning speed at best.

No he's not goddamn Relativistic, cut the wank.

Even the 4th would body this team, saying they would stomp him is unfounded.

Lol.

The 4th would get one-shot by either of them and he couldn't even tag them looking at how the team is probably faster than him and has pre-cog on top of that.

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sky_warrior

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i’d say law captain tier something like that

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Cosmic_Lantern

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@hittheassasin: So would you rather I shut you down here, now, or embarrass you later? The fact that lightning in Naruto has been stated to touch the ground in a millisecond (Mach 5000+ judging from average cloud height) however you insinuating Enel to be faster for whatever biased reason, because we both know that to be unfabricated. Please do humor me, what feats do either of the M3 have to place them at MHS speeds in the quad digit Mach?

Make this one count because when I get to pulling out scans I don't think you can keep up.

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LadyAdeline

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Kenpachi Zaraki and Byakuya. High level caps.




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Thenewguysnm1

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@hittheassasin: So would you rather I shut you down here, now, or embarrass you later? The fact that lightning in Naruto has been stated to touch the ground in a millisecond (Mach 5000+ judging from average cloud height) however you insinuating Enel to be faster for whatever biased reason, because we both know that to be unfabricated. Please do humor me, what feats do either of the M3 have to place them at MHS speeds in the quad digit Mach?

Make this one count because when I get to pulling out scans I don't think you can keep up.

please pull out the scans also stop ducking me

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HitTheAssasin

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#73  Edited By HitTheAssasin

@cosmic_lantern:

So would you rather I shut you down here, now, or embarrass you later?

Stop stroking your own ego, it's embarrassing, as usual.

The fact that lightning in Naruto has been stated to touch the ground in a millisecond (Mach 5000+ judging from average cloud height)

Hyperbole from Zetsu counts as the truth now? M'kay.

That's hardly definitive proof, Naruto lightning=real word lightning.

however you insinuating Enel to be faster for whatever biased reason, because we both know that to be unfabricated.

Who the fuck mentioned Enel? And you're the one saying i don't have the knowledge to be debating this?

I was referring to Khalifa from CP9. If you don't even know that, you're the one that shouldn't be debating here.

It goes like this:

Gear 2 Luffy>CP9 Members>Lightning and that's pre-skip, they improve massively over the time-skip, to the point where Base Luffy is =/> his pre-skip G2 state based on feats.

Please do humor me, what feats do either of the M3 have to place them at MHS speeds in the quad digit Mach?

Pre-skip Luffy could blitz CP9 members with ease, as seen when Blueno stated he couldn't even see G2 Luffy.

No Caption Provided

i've already shown you a scan of Khalifa reacting to lightning and Blueno is confirmed to be > her.

No Caption Provided

This puts pre-skip Strawhats at massively beyond lightning speeds and they obviously massively improve over the timeskip as well. The Raikage doesn't even come close to this tbh.

Make this one count because when I get to pulling out scans I don't think you can keep up.

Ooooh you mean you're gonna start wanking the Raikage to 1/3rd light speed levels?

Let me just debunk that right away.

Zetsu states it's impossible for Itachi to physically react to lightning, so he has to use Susanoo which doesn't require him to physically move to activate it.

No Caption Provided

Later, the exact same thing happens to MS Sasuke(who should be relatively close to Itachi in reaction time), just with the Raikage instead of Kirin. Basically, he manages to activate an ability(Amaterasu) but can't physically react to lightning speed.

No Caption Provided

Adding to that, both Zetsu and Karin state Kirin and Rikage to be impossibly fast and impossible to dodge, which is further proof Raikage is most likely = to Kirin in speed. Also, another point to prove Raikage ain't upwards speed is Karin managing to see him attacking. Unless you think Karin also has relativistic reaction speed(lol). All-in-all, saying the Raikage is even lightning speed is already stretching it, anymore is wank.

This consistently puts the Raikage at cloud to ground lightning speed, i.e CP9 tier. This means he would be blitzed by pre-skip G2 Luffy. Have fun digesting that Cosmic.

The Raikage would get one-shot by Mihawk casually as well, unless you can show feats for him tanking attacks that casually operate on this level:

No Caption Provided

Or this:

No Caption Provided

Accept your loss Cosmic, wank won't save you this time.

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HitTheAssasin

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@thenewguysnm1: no need to worry, i've already debunked the shit out of his pathetic arguments.

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Thenewguysnm1

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@hittheassasin: yeah me two as u can see above also are u guys still doing ur team cav

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Adi_Frost

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@hittheassasin: Don't ya think the kalifa dodging lightning is more like an aim-dodge kinda thing ? Cause later on she gets beat by the same lightning even when she knew where it was coming from and the trajectory of the lightning as well .


And I also think blueno is faster than Kalifa , but Douriki is more like reading their physical strengths by gauging their attacks which only only means that a person with more Douriki means they are Physically stronger than the other , doesn't necessarily mean Faster as well .

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HitTheAssasin

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@adi_frost: not really, considering a wekaer base luffy also reacted to lightning and because Khalifa later reacts to a curving thunderbolt Nami throws at her.

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Cosmic_Lantern

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#78  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

@hittheassasin said:

Stop stroking your own ego, it's embarrassing, as usual.

Embarrassing for me to let you know you're not on my level debating wise, while knowing you can't do a thing about it to suggest otherwise? Please, do go on whilst I stroke away.

Hyperbole from Zetsu counts as the truth now? M'kay.

Dismissing a factual statement as hyperbole is absolutely astounding judging from what your next arguments are hinged on.

That's hardly definitive proof, Naruto lightning=real word lightning.

Who said it isn't? Unless Laser beams are stated to or has feats of being a certain speed(In this case a blatant timeframe was given) than it is acceptable, it is literally the same thing here. You're just blatantly ignoring a statement and dismissing it as hyperbole simply because you don't like it, should we do this with common sense and see how close said lightning was before it struck vastly increasing this feat?:

No Caption Provided

Should we do it with numbers? Which would place this at about a Petavolt of electricity and that level voltage is just about pure Electrons which travel at relativistic speeds(Im not making this argument, don't whine about it)? I mean come now, surely you have something up your sleeve other than ass pulling 'hyperbole'

Who the fuck mentioned Enel? And you're the one saying i don't have the knowledge to be debating this?

I was referring to Khalifa from CP9. If you don't even know that, you're the one that shouldn't be debating here.

Your only legitimate lightning claim HAS to come from Enel or by default you are pushing a pure rubbish double standard by saying the Raikage isn't lightning speed because his cloak is Raiton(Even though we've got canonical proof in every source imaginable proving Shape manipulation is superior to Natural elements). That is absolutely comical.

I guess Nami's lightning is legit as well?

@adi_frost: not really, considering a wekaer base luffy also reacted to lightning and because Khalifa later reacts to a curving thunderbolt Nami throws at her.

LOLOLOLOLOL Called it.

It goes like this:

Gear 2 Luffy>CP9 Members>Lightning and that's pre-skip, they improve massively over the time-skip, to the point where Base Luffy is =/> his pre-skip G2 state based on feats.

Kid Kakashi is a lightning timer. Are you Insinuating Kid Kakashi is in their speed-tier? What About Anbu Kakashi who does it again whilst tired from the war? Are you insinuating a Younger Kakashi with a Prototype raikiri is G2 speed? I mean it's TONS of ways to poke holes in this. I can do the very same you're doing via Time-skip scaling with Kakashi and he still holds a towering advantage.

Pre-skip Luffy could blitz CP9 members with ease, as seen when Blueno stated he couldn't even see G2 Luffy.
i've already shown you a scan of Khalifa reacting to lightning and Blueno is confirmed to be > her.

Cute, inconsistent powerscaling, from fodder that all stemmed from one very questionable reaction feat that involves sketchy lightning. Cool story.

This puts pre-skip Strawhats at massively beyond lightning speeds and they obviously massively improve over the timeskip as well. The Raikage doesn't even come close to this tbh.

Do you see what you're typing? If we go with this unsupported rubbish than why can't I say the same for characters who are comparable to the kakashi that split the lightning automatically defeating this stance. Kakashi's jutsu works with the same mechanics as the Raikages except his is CLEARLY shown on a much higher level, insinuating a Chidori boost is better than a Lightning cloak is flat out wrong. It's NO WAY to fabricate that the raikage isn't much faster than average cloud-to-ground speed, and doing so would be blatant refusal to accept canon.

Also double LOL @ this, Sasuke blatantly takes control of the lightning here:

No Caption Provided

That IN ITSELF is a casual lightning timer feat, yet he couldn't see the raikage off the bat unless he was moving in a straight line even in V1:

Hell this feat right here is a pure momento to Kakashi as stated, if anything THIS is cloud to ground speed but it'd also be a lowball to suggest someone with tailed beasts level of chakra of the same nature can't out due Kirin.

Ooooh you mean you're gonna start wanking the Raikage to 1/3rd light speed levels?

You mean upward speed? Moving specifically as the flash of lightning (with the jutsu name literally being lightning flicker as well) like even the Data book states as well as it being shown?:

No Caption Provided

The raikage doesn't CONSTANTLY move at upward speed, however with lightning flicker he combines it with his blitzes to make them that speed.

Let me just debunk that right away.

YOU, debunk something?

*Grabs seat*

Zetsu states it's impossible for Itachi to physically react to lightning, so he has to use Susanoo which doesn't require him to physically move to activate it.

LEL, so let me get this straight your VERY first remark in this post was 'hyperbole from Zetsu' now you are using a LEGITIMATE hyperbole to 'debunk' something? My lord, looks like im going to finish that doubie afterall.

Later, the exact same thing happens to MS Sasuke(who should be relatively close to Itachi in reaction time), just with the Raikage instead of Kirin. Basically, he manages to activate an ability(Amaterasu) but can't physically react to lightning speed.

Yet not factoring in Itatchi was Blind and stated to have poor reflexes and was getting hit by attacks 'he should've dodged easily':

Sasuke's Sharingan has irrefutable better perception due to being brand new, you can clearly see Itatchi's withered from use in the beginning of the fight and the hole in his Sharingan gradually grows even more:

No Caption Provided

Again, Sasuke blantantly took control of the lightning before it struck the ground:

No Caption Provided

And the boost from Chidori allowed Kakashi to split the lightning.

Adding to that, both Zetsu and Karin state Kirin and Rikage to be impossibly fast and impossible to dodge, which is further proof Raikage is most likely = to Kirin in speed. Also, another point to prove Raikage ain't upwards speed is Karin managing to see him attacking. Unless you think Karin also has relativistic reaction speed(lol). All-in-all, saying the Raikage is even lightning speed is already stretching it, anymore is wank.

So let me get this straight:

>Has no real evidence other than CLEAR exaggerated statements
>Suggests something a healthy Sasuke couldn't react to = something a Sick Itatchi could.
>Suggests Karin seeing the raikage is a feat rather than for narrative plot purposes
>Claims wank because he has nothing else to disprove claim

Cool story. Still want to push the point here or should I just flat out burst your bubble in our CaV?

This consistently puts the Raikage at cloud to ground lightning speed, i.e CP9 tier. This means he would be blitzed by pre-skip G2 Luffy. Have fun digesting that Cosmic.

Mk. This would suggest Kid kakashi tier which would mean by part 1 Kakashi would blitz G2 Luffy by your logic. I tend not to digest things that are bad for me, you shouldn't either but it's too late as you've regurgitated nothing but garbage here.

The Raikage would get one-shot by Mihawk casually as well, unless you can show feats for him tanking attacks that casually operate on this level:

The Raikage tanked a blade that can split the electrons in a lightning bolt and the 3rd was unharmed by microscopic wind chakra blades (Shape manipulation is superior to Haki btw). Cutting a wave is cute in comparison.

Or this:

Accept your loss Cosmic, wank won't save you this time.

Loss? Dude.....you stole this argument from your opponent in your CaV.....its quite evident, even whilst resulting to unoriginal retorts its obvious you haven't won anything.....that's not even questionable at this point.

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Cosmic_Lantern

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#79  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

@thenewguysnm1 said:
@cosmic_lantern said:

@hittheassasin: So would you rather I shut you down here, now, or embarrass you later? The fact that lightning in Naruto has been stated to touch the ground in a millisecond (Mach 5000+ judging from average cloud height) however you insinuating Enel to be faster for whatever biased reason, because we both know that to be unfabricated. Please do humor me, what feats do either of the M3 have to place them at MHS speeds in the quad digit Mach?

Make this one count because when I get to pulling out scans I don't think you can keep up.

please pull out the scans also stop ducking me

Also ducking you? Nothing you've said warrants another reply from me, It honestly isn't worth my time as you've presented basically nothing. Stop flooding my notifs, it's getting annoying at this point.

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HitTheAssasin

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@cosmic_lantern: @cosmic_lantern:

Embarrassing for me to let you know you're not on my level debating wise, while knowing you can't do a thing about it to suggest otherwise? Please, do go on whilst I stroke away.

Your sense of superiority about apparent superiority in debating fictional characters is astounding.

By any chance, do you have a superiority complex? Because you sure do act like it.

Dismissing a factual statement as hyperbole is absolutely astounding judging from what your next arguments are hinged on.

Look, my point is that you trying to use this statement to somehow prove Kirin is faster than regular lightning is silly because in the exact same panel Zetsu states that lightning is "several hundred times faster than sound", which coincides with real world statistics. The author was clearly trying to point out the speed of lightning, not that Kirin is somehow faster than normal lightning.

Basically: You shouldn't try to prove Kirin is faster than lightning based on one vague, possibly hyperbolic statement when nothing else suggests it.

Who said it isn't? Unless Laser beams are stated to or has feats of being a certain speed(In this case a blatant timeframe was given) than it is acceptable,

Entirely different scenario, laser beams are treated as a special case due to their massive inconsistency across all media interns of speed.

it is literally the same thing here.

It's one, vague, possibly hyperbolic statement that was only meant to emphasise how fast lightning is, as proven when Zetsu says "hundreds of times faster than sound" directly after that, which coincides with real life lightning.

You're just blatantly ignoring a statement and dismissing it as hyperbole simply because you don't like it,

No,because it was meant as a parallel to real word lightning, to emphasise how fast it is.....

not to show that the Naruto worlds lightning is somehow faster

should we do this with common sense and see how close said lightning was before it struck vastly increasing this feat?:

What does that even mean?

Should we do it with numbers? Which would place this at about a Petavolt of electricity and that level voltage is just about pure Electrons which travel at relativistic speeds(Im not making this argument, don't whine about it)? I mean come now, surely you have something up your sleeve other than ass pulling 'hyperbole'

I don't understand where you're going with this.

Zetsu just made a blanket statement out of his ass about how fast lightning is, the chances are higher he was misinformed then that Kirin is somehow faster than normal lightning.

Your only legitimate lightning claim HAS to come from Enel or by default you are pushing a pure rubbish double standard by saying the Raikage isn't lightning speed because his cloak is Raiton(Even though we've got canonical proof in every source imaginable proving Shape manipulation is superior to Natural elements).

When did i ever say the Raikage isn't lightning speed due to Raiton? That doesn't even make sense. I blatantly state that i deem the Raikage to be cloud to ground lightning speed at the bottom of my initial post, there's no double standards here.

That is absolutely comical.

It would be, but i never said the Rikage is slower due to Raiton not being natural lightning or whatever, so...?

I guess Nami's lightning is legit as well?

It is, just as much as the Raikage's is, that is, cloud to ground speed.

Kid Kakashi is a lightning timer.

And you later scold me about inconsistent power scaling, questionable lightning etc.

The irony is on point with you. Kakashi's feat is what's inconsistent considering both Itachi and Sasuke's inability to react to lightning later on.

Are you Insinuating Kid Kakashi is in their speed-tier?

This would, at best, put Kid Kakashi at pre-Gear base Luffy speed tier, considering he also reacted to Enels lightning. I don't know where you're going with this.

What About Anbu Kakashi who does it again whilst tired from the war?

I don't remember this, scans?

Anyway, base Luffy did the same thing against Enel, also while tired.

No Caption Provided

So, congrats. Kakashi, with a sharing to help him by giving him pre-cog, is on the same level as pre-gears Luffy.

Are you insinuating a Younger Kakashi with a Prototype raikiri is G2 speed?

That feat is hella inconsistent because Itachi and Sasuke(> Kakashi) later failed to do the same thing. Also, iirc, that feat was never actually shown and the circumstances behind it are unknown, which makes it unusable anyway.

I mean it's TONS of ways to poke holes in this. I can do the very same you're doing via Time-skip scaling with Kakashi and he still holds a towering advantage.

Kakashi doesn't improve nearly as much as the Straw Hats do over the time skip. They went from only barely being able to destroy a Pacifista with the strongest attacks from all of their crew members to Luffy casually one-shotting one of them, Kakashi's improvement doesn't even remotely compare to that.

So far we've established:

  • pre-skip Sharingan Kakashi = pre-skip base Luffy.

Considering Luffy's greater improvement over the time skip(based on feats) this then means:

  • Post-skip Kakashi < Post-skip Base Luffy

And now? What does this prove? Nothing.

Do you see what you're typing? If we go with this unsupported rubbish than why can't I say the same for characters who are comparable to the kakashi that split the lightning automatically defeating this stance. Kakashi's jutsu works with the same mechanics as the Raikages except his is CLEARLY shown on a much higher level, insinuating a Chidori boost is better than a Lightning cloak is flat out wrong. It's NO WAY to fabricate that the raikage isn't much faster than average cloud-to-ground speed, and doing so would be blatant refusal to accept canon.

Except, going b your logic, Kakashi's feat is a blatant outlier looking as no one on skid Kakashi's level has similar feats and even Itachi couldn't do what he did. V2 Raikage is consistently lightning speed due to blitzing an MS user, who canonically can't react to lightning outside of outliers(*cough* Kakashi *cough*).

Also double LOL @ this, Sasuke blatantly takes control of the lightning here:

Um, cool? This isn't even a speed feat. The clouds were crackling with electricity, Sasuke uses his chakra to mold it into his hand. This is a spee feat how exactly?

That IN ITSELF is a casual lightning timer feat,

Not even a speed feat, clouds were crackling with electricity, Sasuke molds it into his hand, what does this have to do with speed?

yet he couldn't see the raikage off the bat unless he was moving in a straight line even in V1:

>States Sasuke can't react to Raikage

> Sasuke reacts and counters the Raikage on panel

Hell this feat right here is a pure momento to Kakashi as stated, if anything THIS is cloud to ground speed but it'd also be a lowball to suggest someone with tailed beasts level of chakra of the same nature can't out due Kirin.

No, it's pure speculation. V1 Raikage is at best lightning speed, but that's already reaching considering Sasuke casually reacts to him.

You mean upward speed? Moving specifically as the flash of lightning (with the jutsu name literally being lightning flicker as well) like even the Data book states as well as it being shown?:

Since when do we use hyperbole and the name of an attack to deduce it's speed/power? By that logic Vegeta's big bang attack is Universal and Bankai Ichigo is lightning speed....

The raikage doesn't CONSTANTLY move at upward speed, however with lightning flicker he combines it with his blitzes to make them that speed.

Ok, that makes KCM Naruto's speed lightning++ to Relativistic(Upward speed) doesn't it? I mean, he dodged that full speed blitz after all. Yet, Itachi, who was previously unable to react to lightning could somehow keep up with him....

Unless you think being sick made Itachi's reaction time 1/100 of what it normally is, Naruto/Raikage being Relativistic is bull.

LEL, so let me get this straight your VERY first remark in this post was 'hyperbole from Zetsu' now you are using a LEGITIMATE hyperbole to 'debunk' something? My lord, looks like im going to finish that doubie afterall.

The difference being that statement from Zetsu is later confirmed by Itachi having to use Susanoo to block Kirin,stating he would have been dead otherwise etc, meaning we KNOW this statement is true.

Yet not factoring in Itatchi was Blind and stated to have poor reflexes and was getting hit by attacks 'he should've dodged easily':

Point taken, however unless you think Itachi's speed increased 100-1000x over by being healthy, he shouldn't have been able to react to the lightning++ to Relativistic KCM Naruto, debunking you're entire flawed "Upward speed" argument.

Sasuke's Sharingan has irrefutable better perception due to being brand new, you can clearly see Itatchi's withered from use in the beginning of the fight and the hole in his Sharingan gradually grows even more:

However, it's also irrefutable that in general MS Itachi > MS Sasuke in speed as shown when a healthy Itachi can react to KCM Naruto with ease, who is >/= V2 Raikage, who Sasuke couldn't react to. Meaning these should balance each other out, so my point still stands.

So let me get this straight:

>Has no real evidence other than CLEAR exaggerated statements

And comparisons from similarly fast characters and logical thinking.

Also, this coming from the guy who used Zetsu's exaggerated statements, lol.

>Suggests something a healthy Sasuke couldn't react to = something a Sick Itatchi could.

No, i said healthy MS Sasuke failed to react to the same thing MS Itachi also couldn't react to(lightning speed), because while his Sharingan>Itachi's sharingan, his general speed < Itachi's.(see KCM Naruto vs Itachi for evidence)

>Suggests Karin seeing the raikage is a feat rather than for narrative plot purposes

Not the point, but ok.

>Claims wank because he has nothing else to disprove claim

Except logic, evidence and literally everything else.

Mk. This would suggest Kid kakashi tier which would mean by part 1 Kakashi would blitz G2 Luffy by your logic. I tend not to digest things that are bad for me, you shouldn't either but it's too late as you've regurgitated nothing but garbage here.

Nope, this would suggest Kid Kakashi = pre-gears, pre-skip base Luffy, which isn't something i need to worry about at all.

This means Part 1 Kakashi is at best equal to post-training base Luffy, not f*ing Gear 2.

The Raikage tanked a blade that can split the electrons in a lightning bolt

That's cool and all, but Chidori is like Building level with wank and he was pierced by it. Now what exactly suggests he wouldn't get one-shot by Mihawk if a building level piercing attack can cut him and Mihawk casually operates at a City-Mounatin level range?

and the 3rd was unharmed by microscopic wind chakra blades (Shape manipulation is superior to Haki btw).

>Unharmed

>Clearly had Edo Tensei dust around him and had to regenerate. M'kay

Cutting a wave is cute in comparison.

How is a City+ level feat "cute" in comparison to getting pierced by a building level attack and hurt by a City Block level Rasenshuriken? The fuck?

Loss? Dude.....you stole this argument from your opponent in your CaV.

>Stole

> Was aware of this argument for atleast 6 months before my CaV with Shirso

....its quite evident, even whilst resulting to unoriginal retorts its obvious you haven't won anything.....that's not even questionable at this point.

The irony is strong with this one.

We can CaV something along these lines if you want....

pre-BM Naruto(KCM and before) vs Current Luffy is one thing i'd be up for...

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Omnipo1010

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Kaguya & Yhwach

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Asurakj

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Pain and Konan

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Thenewguysnm1

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@cosmic_lantern: lol and you tagged me first so.

as long as u dont still think mei can take on these two im fine see ya

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Adi_Frost

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#84  Edited By Adi_Frost

@hittheassasin: Luffy kicking the lightning bolt goes completely around the whole premise of the Skypia arc to begin with .

It was quite established that luffy was nowhere near close to the speed of enel when he turns into lightning while enel couldn't hurt luffy either using lightning as he was immune to it . It was a battle where both of them had a big disadvantage against their opponent and suddenly base luffy is lightning speed and can kick lightning bolts when it was previously established that he is not even close to lightning speed .

Seems more like an outlier to me .

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Cosmic_Lantern

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#85  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

Your sense of superiority about apparent superiority in debating fictional characters is astounding.

I get a kick out of out debating my opponent on an online fiction battles board, sue me. My favorite color is burgundy, I like my women of all variety, and I insist the Toyota celica is the best car they have ever Manufactured bar the coolness of the Avalon. Is their something else you'd like to point out about my life that is 'astounding' by your definition?

By any chance, do you have a superiority complex? Because you sure do act like it.

I think Marshall Mathers put it the best when he said:

Soon as a verse starts, I eat at an emcee's heart
What is he thinking? How not to go against me, smart
And it's absurd how people hang on every word
I'll probably never get the props I feel I ever deserve
But I'll never be served, my spot is forever reserved
If I ever leave Earth, that would be the death of me first
‘Cause in my heart of hearts
I know nothing could ever be worse
That's why I'm clever when I put together every verse

I don't think you have the mentality(or skills, intelligence, or even aptitude) to do anything more than mildly annoy me with your competence in a debate.

Look, my point is that you trying to use this statement to somehow prove Kirin is faster than regular lightning is silly because in the exact same panel Zetsu states that lightning is "several hundred times faster than sound", which coincides with real world statistics. The author was clearly trying to point out the speed of lightning, not that Kirin is somehow faster than normal lightning.

We assume lightning is at its slowest capability (Mach 300, 280ish to be exact), unless it is specifically stated. What you're also devoid to is that's an average approximation speed, a high concentrated cloud-to-ground bolt can be much faster depending on the voltage as I said a specified time frame was given; that is a clear as day variable to this feat.

Basically: You shouldn't try to prove Kirin is faster than lightning based on one vague, possibly hyperbolic statement when nothing else suggests it.

I'm not, you are simply refusing a blatantly stated timeframe because you don't like it. It's no possibly about it, that statement shouldn't be discarded when Zetsu is there solely for narrative plot reasons, we should all use some sort of common sense when looking at these things.

Entirely different scenario, laser beams are treated as a special case due to their massive inconsistency across all media interns of speed.

And the same could not be said for fictional lightning? You're building a strawman I see.

It's one, vague, possibly hyperbolic statement that was only meant to emphasise how fast lightning is, as proven when Zetsu says "hundreds of times faster than sound" directly after that, which coincides with real life lightning.

It's simple. 'hundreds of times faster than sound' isn't quantifiable, 1/1000th of a second is.

No,because it was meant as a parallel to real word lightning, to emphasise how fast it is.....

not to show that the Naruto worlds lightning is somehow faster

Need I explain more? Im not saying it is faster, you yourself just admitted Zetsu emphasized how fast it was, I have no reason whatsoever to take your word over a narrative character statement whose been describing the entirety of the fight.

What does that even mean?

The Lightning dragon was litterally just over Sasuke on that pillar and they were atop a mountain, using common sense would illustrate how close quarters a feat this is.

I don't understand where you're going with this.

Im saying you don't have a rational argument to disprove this claim rather than spouting 'hyperbole' repeatedly.

Zetsu just made a blanket statement out of his ass about how fast lightning is, the chances are higher he was misinformed then that Kirin is somehow faster than normal lightning.

Resorting to arguing with canon, cool story.

When did i ever say the Raikage isn't lightning speed due to Raiton? That doesn't even make sense. I blatantly state that i deem the Raikage to be cloud to ground lightning speed at the bottom of my initial post, there's no double standards here.

Than back to square one we go, how about you prove that ANY non-natural lightning in OP is superior than the raw element? Even off the top of my head we've got Naruto molding Air Molecules in the Rasenshuriken that shred, The basic Chidori which is just Lightning Chakra on the the hand that's capable of splitting lightning (Meaning, Electron splitting scientifically), Hell even Zabuzas water prison was denser than steel, it's tons more examples tbh.

It is, just as much as the Raikage's is, that is, cloud to ground speed.

Nami cloud to ground speed? Are you now making the substantiation that Nami is on the Raikages speed tier now? How absolutely obtuse of you.

And you later scold me about inconsistent power scaling, questionable lightning etc.

WHAT? Are you saying kakashi splitting a lightning bolt from the sky is questionable? And Kid Sasuke being able to use that same jutsu is inconsistent? Sweet jesus.

The irony is on point with you. Kakashi's feat is what's inconsistent considering both Itachi and Sasuke's inability to react to lightning later on.

Are you on dope? Firstly this claim erroneously hints that you didn't read my last post at all, I outright showed you Itatchi's reflexes being terrible and being near blind as he was basically on his deathbed. Secondly Sasuke not being able to see V2 after using the exact jutsu kakashi split the lightning with on V1 (where he even specifically highlights this along with the panel beforehand zooming in on his Sharingan), should tell you something.

This would, at best, put Kid Kakashi at pre-Gear base Luffy speed tier, considering he also reacted to Enels lightning. I don't know where you're going with this.

Kid kakashi is a tad above 3 tomoe kid Sasuke, Sasuke's awakening against Haku should be noted as well to give a basis of Sharingan Capability. Concession accepted.

I don't remember this, scans?

Loading Video...

Anyway, base Luffy did the same thing against Enel, also while tired.

Hardly see this as a reaction feat nor is it at all comparable tbh, especially where it's blantantly stated where he's attacking.

So, congrats. Kakashi, with a sharing to help him by giving him pre-cog, is on the same level as pre-gears Luffy.

You mean Kid kakashi is above pre-gears luffy? Judging from this being your only feat it's safe to assume so.

That feat is hella inconsistent because Itachi and Sasuke(> Kakashi) later failed to do the same thing. Also, iirc, that feat was never actually shown and the circumstances behind it are unknown, which makes it unusable anyway.

So you say Sasuke is above the same kakashi that did split the lightning bolt but it's inconsistent because a sick and dying itatchi could only deploy susanoo and Sasuke couldn't even See V2 raikage as he was moving as the flash of lightning? Also Kakashi's feat unusable? The very same feat that has been confirmed from the mouth of Kishimoto, the databook, Novels, Anime(which according to Boruto era is partly canon), Manga and every other source book the series has ever published? It cannot get anymore canon than that my friend.

Kakashi doesn't improve nearly as much as the Straw Hats do over the time skip. They went from only barely being able to destroy a Pacifista with the strongest attacks from all of their crew members to Luffy casually one-shotting one of them, Kakashi's improvement doesn't even remotely compare to that.

I don't like debaters like you, they operate on rather kindergartenish logic that quite honestly doesn't make sense to me, D/C solely does not determine growth nor a victor of a battle. You're basically insinuating a Kid kakashi whose new with the sharingan (Not to mention he skipped the previous 1 and 2 tomoe awakenings) is near equal to part 1 kakashi because he doesn't have better DC which is silly.

So far we've established:

You have not established anything nor can you without evidence. That is laughable.

pre-skip Sharingan Kakashi = pre-skip base Luffy.

Kid kakashi >= Luffy (Jumping to split a bolt

Anbu/friend killer/Pre-Kurama Kakashi > Luffy

Considering Luffy's greater improvement over the time skip(based on feats) this then means:

Seeing as the fight with Zabuza was his first back in action brawl, not even close. Based on feats by part 1 kakashi is on a completely different level than he was in his Anbu/Gaiden days.

Post-skip Kakashi < Post-skip Base Luffy

Kakashi also perfected Raikiri by this time and he made no changes throughout the first and second half of the series besides learning he had Kamui(he was doing anbu stuff while Naruto was gone), until DMS. So, definitely not.

And now? What does this prove?

Luffy doesn't operate at kakashis speed level in combat and your scaling is laughably flawed.

Except, going b your logic, Kakashi's feat is a blatant outlier looking as no one on skid Kakashi's level has similar feats and even Itachi couldn't do what he did.

Insinuating Kid Sasuke couldn't learn chidori as well? Insinuating a Itatchi isnt on kakashi's level? More context ignored, truly a laughable debater you are.

V2 Raikage is consistently lightning speed due to blitzing an MS user, who canonically can't react to lightning outside of outliers(*cough* Kakashi *cough*).

You mean Sasuke can percieve lightning with his MS like even a dying itatchi did and a Kid kakashi who just got the sharingan, but couldn't see the raikage thus proving he is irrefutably faster than lightning?

Um, cool? This isn't even a speed feat. The clouds were crackling with electricity, Sasuke uses his chakra to mold it into his hand. This is a spee feat how exactly?

You mean the lightning cracks THEN sasuke takes control of it like Zetsu blantantly states? You mean the lightning Sasuke got from the sky because he was out of chakra? He only molded its shape after he took control of it he directly states he's guiding it down. Holy sh*t mate I can't believe you're being this thick towards something I just showed you.

Not even a speed feat, clouds were crackling with electricity, Sasuke molds it into his hand, what does this have to do with speed?

Sasuke takes control of lightning as it strikes and its not a speed feat? Are you being thick simply because you have no argument?

>States Sasuke can't react to Raikage

See=/= react, I see you aren't reading properly either.

> Sasuke reacts and counters the Raikage on panel

Didn't even read the full sentence, 'can only see him in a straight line' doesn't register to you correctly for what reason?

No, it's pure speculation. V1 Raikage is at best lightning speed, but that's already reaching considering Sasuke casually reacts to him.

No, it's just someone so stupefyingly ignorant on a series they have obviously never truly read. Back to square one again with this same circular rubbish that you continue to regurgitate. This would insinuate Sasuke isn't faster than kid kakashi which is lolworthy.

Since when do we use hyperbole and the name of an attack to deduce it's speed/power? By that logic Vegeta's big bang attack is Universal and Bankai Ichigo is lightning speed....

Uh? Did you miss the fact that he's a lightning construct and actually moves as the flash of lightning? Back to ignoring scans I see. What about the fact that his cloak gives him synapse boost to operate at these speeds?

No Caption Provided

Hell LS synapse would he hella accurate with upward speed as well due to the fact it'd make him a high-end microsecond timer using an average human synapse as a measuring stick (which can reach 268 MPH and register an image in 0.13 seconds)

Ok, that makes KCM Naruto's speed lightning++ to Relativistic(Upward speed) doesn't it? I mean, he dodged that full speed blitz after all. Yet, Itachi, who was previously unable to react to lightning could somehow keep up with him....

More cringe worthy stupidity in suggesting Naruto fought Itatchi seriously and again suggesting he was as unhealthy as he was when he acccomplished that feat.

Unless you think being sick made Itachi's reaction time 1/100 of what it normally is, Naruto/Raikage being Relativistic is bull.

Let me break something down so simple as to where even your Elementary comprehension rate could fully grasp it, ITATCHI WAS BLIND, SICK, AND DYING. Hell this is what he could see in the beginning of the fight(bottom right), stop fabricating bullshit to pull feats down to your level:

No Caption Provided

The difference being that statement from Zetsu is later confirmed by Itachi having to use Susanoo to block Kirin,stating he would have been dead otherwise etc, meaning we KNOW this statement is true.

LOL @ stating lightning is impossible to dodge because of Zetsu statement, that in itself proves how desperate you are. I guess Naruto couldn't dodge Light fang either?

Point taken, however unless you think Itachi's speed increased 100-1000x over by being healthy, he shouldn't have been able to react to the lightning++ to Relativistic KCM Naruto, debunking you're entire flawed "Upward speed" argument.

You haven't debunked anything because you refuse to look at context correctly because edo tensei never went full effect on Itatchi forcing him to fight at his fullest capability and they were still having a conversation.

However, it's also irrefutable that in general MS Itachi > MS Sasuke in speed as shown when a healthy Itachi can react to KCM Naruto with ease, who is >/= V2 Raikage, who Sasuke couldn't react to. Meaning these should balance each other out, so my point still stands.

You are truly absolute trash at debating my dude, find a new hobby. Even if this FLAWED (putting it loosely, as everything in this entire post has been coming out of your ass) scaling held some sort of weight Itatchi was not healthy when he reacted to the lightning. This is ofcourse still ignoring context which you can't seem to comprehend.

And comparisons from similarly fast characters and logical thinking.

What you're doing is a blantant insult to the word logical in the first place. Your comparisons are as equally unfounded and nonsensical.

Also, this coming from the guy who used Zetsu's exaggerated statements, lol.

'Impossible to dodge!' taken over a blantant time frame? No wonder you're considered a joke here, 'lol'.

No, i said healthy MS Sasuke failed to react to the same thing MS Itachi also couldn't react to(lightning speed), because while his Sharingan>Itachi's sharingan, his general speed < Itachi's.(see KCM Naruto vs Itachi for evidence)

You're a disease on these boards.

Not the point, but ok.

You implied she was able to see him so is relativistic which is an utterly cartoonish claim.

Except logic, evidence and literally everything else.

Seriously, stop saying those words. You're already a joke, don't be a liar as well.

Nope, this would suggest Kid Kakashi = pre-gears, pre-skip base Luffy, which isn't something i need to worry about at all.

This means Part 1 Kakashi is at best equal to post-training base Luffy, not f*ing Gear 2.

You just said lightning is CP9 tier, kakashi blitzed lightning twice with once being casually whilst tired. So by your terrible logic, part 1 kakashi is G2 level. I can't take this much stupid in one area, it makes my head hurt. You should rethink about the vine community before replying to me.

That's cool and all, but Chidori is like Building level with wank and he was pierced by it. Now what exactly suggests he wouldn't get one-shot by Mihawk if a building level piercing attack can cut him and Mihawk casually operates at a City-Mounatin level range?

Do you know what an electron is? can your mind only comprehend size as a viable counter to a blade that fine? That's outright laughable seeing what the American education system produces now-a-days.

>Unharmed

Yea, unharmed you see any edo tensei paper flying?:

No Caption Provided

>Clearly had Edo Tensei dust around him and had to regenerate. M'kay

Very next page:

No Caption Provided

Begone, disease.

How is a City+ level feat "cute" in comparison to getting pierced by a building level attack and hurt by a City Block level Rasenshuriken? The fuck?

Molecular/Sub-atomic blades >>>>>>>...> Cutting water/Stone. Lol'd @ city block:

No Caption Provided

Yea.......:

No Caption Provided

I'm telling you, consider leaving this place. Diseases like you spread.

>Stole

Yea, crappy plagiarism, the owner of this argument would have done a much better job than the trash im being presented with now.

> Was aware of this argument for atleast 6 months before my CaV with Shirso

Seems kind of odd that you instinctively know the one im talking about, needless to say even if you were aware of it how come the very same argument destroyed you?

The irony is strong with this one.

You're bad at everything related to CV.

We can CaV something along these lines if you want....

I don't wish to partake in anything involving you, that 2v2 CaV is already pushing it. I don't have the patience to shove canon down your throat for three posts only for you to regurgitate the same unsubstantiated asshat magic repeatedly. It'd be a disgusting endeavor but I do enjoy letting you know how laughably ignorant you are, so if you want to be disproven publicly be my guest.

pre-BM Naruto(KCM and before) vs Current Luffy is one thing i'd be up for...

BASE Naruto would oneshot both luffy and katakuri simultaneously with one rasenshuriken. KCM would solo the M3 without trying.

@cosmic_lantern: lol and you tagged me first so.

You're not too intelligent are you?

as long as u dont still think mei can take on these two im fine see ya

'ye i still thnk mei can take dese two, i betchu cant prove et' You're as laughable as HTA and you both are utter clown tier on these boards, you in particular cannot stay out of my notifs. I know im a good debater (Hell everyone on these boards knows) I don't need some child in my ear about it every time I opt to dominate a thread. That's just laughable.

I'd CaV you both 2v1 just to show you both the difference between you and I, how about one of you reps Luffy and the other katakuri so I can indeed show you both better than I could ever tell you.

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Zyrille64

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I'd say hashi/edo Madara

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Omnihater

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Both of them at the same time?

Naruto BSM, Gai 8 gates.

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Asurakj

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Bm Naruto still one shots everyone so below him

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MrViking

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From Naruto ? Likely SM Jiraya , if he doesnt summon frogs and use genjutsu and summoning.

From Bleach ? Likely Yammy , if he doesnt goes rampage.

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@shirso said:

Mihawk is close to Yonko level, and Zoro himself would be a high tier in both these verses, so I think they can beat a lot of people barring the true god tiers (Madara, EoS Naruto, Sasuke, Yhwach, etc) or people who have very broken hax.

Mihawk might clear EoS though.

What?

They not even mid tiers in any of the verses.

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deactivated-5e5937775a5e6

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Hitsugaya?

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shirso

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@mrviking said:
@shirso said:

Mihawk is close to Yonko level, and Zoro himself would be a high tier in both these verses, so I think they can beat a lot of people barring the true god tiers (Madara, EoS Naruto, Sasuke, Yhwach, etc) or people who have very broken hax.

Mihawk might clear EoS though.

What?

They not even mid tiers in any of the verses.

Yeah they would be top tiers. Someone like Mihawk would rather easily solo the Espada for instance.

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Omnihater

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and for bleach, any character that kenpachi can kill, mihawk can

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#94  Edited By SkySanji

Zoro: Eos Renji Or Pre Adult Toshiro/ maybe Kcm Naruto or Ems Sasuke for sure

Mihawk: Solos the Espadas and Eos Byakuya/Nagato or Bm Naruto

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Raziel2014

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#95  Edited By Raziel2014

Bleach

Zoro: Bellow Captain level

Mihawk= Average Captain Level

Naruto

Zoro: anyone bellow six path if he gets within range/Close combat, in power alone anyone bellow Pain/Nagato

Mihawk= same as zoro, if he gets within range he can easily one shot anyone in the verse bellow six path but in Overall power alone he is bellow Hashirama.

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SkySanji

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@raziel2014: Zoro below Captain level? You do realize his casual strikes are mountain level + right? Via his Pacifista feat where he one shits a Pacifista to the point where it explodes keeping in mind Franky is below a Pavifistas durability and he was still intact after getting hit by a Nuke not even going to get into 1080 pound Phoenix cannon or greater 3000 worlds

Average captain level Mihawk? Show me any average captain replicating Mihawks Iceberg feat

The Naruto part of your post was just lowball city Pains Chibaku Tensei is mountain level at best what is that going to do to Zoro samething for Mihawk this isn’t even going into speed but eh I guess it’s your opinion although biased, but your opinion nonetheless.

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AnimeFreak1

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#97  Edited By AnimeFreak1

Still not even getting past the Low Tiers of the Naruto Verse

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Below BM naruto

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#99  Edited By Raziel2014

@skysanji said:

@raziel2014: Zoro below Captain level? You do realize his casual strikes are mountain level + right? Via his Pacifista feat where he one shits a Pacifista to the point where it explodes keeping in mind Franky is below a Pavifistas durability and he was still intact after getting hit by a Nuke not even going to get into 1080 pound Phoenix cannon or greater 3000 worlds

Average captain level Mihawk? Show me any average captain replicating Mihawks Iceberg feat

The Naruto part of your post was just lowball city Pains Chibaku Tensei is mountain level at best what is that going to do to Zoro samething for Mihawk this isn’t even going into speed but eh I guess it’s your opinion although biased, but your opinion nonetheless.

Zoro has no Mountain level feat, his feat against Pica is only TOwn level to Large town level via just scaling Pica to the Colleseum, Pica is about 1.2km in height, KE and PE give Town-Large town level after Zoro cuts him.

Mihawk ice berg feat is again not a huge feat, just using Ice density is still just a Town level to large town level Feat.

Franky explosion after finding Vega punk lab is not just one explosion but multiple, at the end explosion if using 300-600m Mountain height you get a Small Town level Nuke, depending on how close Franky was to the explosion is another matter on how much energy he actually got hit with, even using 1km+ MOuntains you still get Town level+ Nuke, people just think because its a huge explosion it means lots of power, Megaton Nuke dwarfs even the largest mountains on earth.

Ichigo during HM already tanked a Cero Oscuras directly from Ulquiorra and just by pixel scaling Las noche and using the absolute lowest possible outcome you still get City Level after it was tanked by Ichigo, so yes ichigo feat is better than anything mihawk has ever done and HM Ichigo is Average Captain level.

reminds me of the time people thought Deidara Dropping the bomb on Gaara village was City Level while in fact is just a City Block+ feat