• 82 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for kalder_ridley
#1 Posted by kalder_ridley (591 posts) - - Show Bio

I think all saiyans in DBZ would get genjutsu GG'd honestly

Online
Avatar image for chaos239
#2 Posted by Chaos239 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz

Avatar image for khael
#3 Posted by Khael (12970 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeno

Avatar image for jt_gh
#4 Posted by jt_gh (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow. Because like all things Naruto, genjutsu is over-hyped. And this thread doesn't deserve a serious answer, as it will devolve into nonsense like all them do when these characters are involved.

Avatar image for phantomrant
#5 Posted by PhantomRant (695 posts) - - Show Bio

zeno

Avatar image for tvc-15
#6 Edited by TVC-15 (4196 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku, I guess.

Avatar image for flashingsabre
#7 Posted by FlashingSabre (1171 posts) - - Show Bio

It's based on TP resistance. This entire debate is stupid. Genjutsu isn't complicated. Its freaking illusions!

Online
Avatar image for godren
#8 Posted by Godren (962 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeno.Sasuke>Zeno no tp resistance.

Avatar image for kamishini
#9 Posted by Kamishini (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

If they have to "tank" it without attacking back, then everyone that doesn't have TP resistance.

Avatar image for rickyrck
#10 Posted by rickyrck (1806 posts) - - Show Bio

Ivory kings

Avatar image for valor_175
#11 Edited by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio

@flashingsabre: Actually, the only way to break out is by disrupting your Chakra, and since its been confirmed to work on people without Chakra, if you're not from the Naruto-verse, you can't break out lmao.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#12 Edited by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

Insert strongest character without feats to indicate they could resist a weak spirtual sense attack.

Online
Avatar image for sayo786
#13 Edited by Sayo786 (565 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: Biggest pile of NLF i have ever seen. It's an illusion. Let's just pretend that Galactus has no tp feats and itachi puts him ina tsukiyomi where he is human size and getting stabbed. The moment galactus uses any of his powers, he gg planet reks inside the illusion itachi put him in, what does that result in? Him breaking out.

Take WBH and remove his TP resistance feats. Put him into an illusion and he destroys the illusionary world itself. What does that tell you? The only absolute best we can take is using the logical argument. What is the strongest person in narutoverse on which genjutsu has worked on? Take that character and any character above him/her should technically resist genjutsu altogether. Then again naruto fanboys can't be reasoned with so genjutsu GG

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#14 Posted by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

@flashingsabre: Actually, the only way to break out is by disrupting your Chakra, and since its been confirmed to work on people without Chakra, if you're not from the Naruto-verse, you can't break out lmao.

Oh what a fun claim... Let's try testing it on the below character.

Your claim was found wanting.
Your claim was found wanting.

Online
Avatar image for tvc-15
#15 Edited by TVC-15 (4196 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175 said:

@flashingsabre: Actually, the only way to break out is by disrupting your Chakra, and since its been confirmed to work on people without Chakra, if you're not from the Naruto-verse, you can't break out lmao.

Pain, and just being able to "see though" it has worked as well.

Avatar image for valor_175
#16 Posted by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio

@sayo786: That logic doesn't work, if it were like that people like Kakashi and Sasuke would have broken out of Tsukoyomi. When in the Genjutsu the caster can choose to take your power away, especially in Tsukoyomi, as the user literally controls all within that space.

Avatar image for valor_175
#17 Posted by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15: I meant Tsukoyomi, sorry if that was confusing.

Avatar image for valor_175
#18 Posted by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for killers10333
#19 Posted by killers10333 (2477 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao zeno and the super dragon get genjutsu gg

Avatar image for godren
#20 Posted by Godren (962 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao zeno and the super dragon get genjutsu gg

Pretty much.genjutsu is beyond time and space.crazy op illusions.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#21 Posted by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok: I don't know who that is.

Meng Hao, but there are countless characters from Wuxia/Xianxia that I could use instead to make this point.

Online
Avatar image for tvc-15
#22 Posted by TVC-15 (4196 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15: I meant Tsukoyomi, sorry if that was confusing.

It's the same thing.

@sayo786: That logic doesn't work, if it were like that people like Kakashi and Sasuke would have broken out of Tsukoyomi. When in the Genjutsu the caster can choose to take your power away, especially in Tsukoyomi, as the user literally controls all within that space.

Sasuke did break out of Tsukuyomi, and Danzo broke out of Sasuke's all without mentions of disrupting chakra flow.

Avatar image for valor_175
#23 Posted by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for valor_175
#24 Posted by Valor_175 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15: No, it isn't. Its been specifically stated that Tsukoyomi cannot be broken out of without breaking the Genjutsu via the Sharingan. Again, both of your examples were Sharingan users.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#25 Edited by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175 said:

@thekillerklok: How so? Im genuinely curious on this one.

Naruto is a wuxia series with ninja instead of Taoists.

Let me see if I can find a post where I explain this in detail...

Oh hey does anyone want to hear my theory about how genjutsu is based off of a common wuxia ability Divine(Spiritual) sense attack? I'm just going to assume yes.

You see the term "5 senses" is often used in relation with the concept of spiritual sense as a whole.

and Chakra as shown in naruto is literally just KI/chi/qi.

The physical energy in chakra isn't something special given that ki usually consists of External/internal energy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Take notice of the dantain in the naruto image, (where a "Cultivator" usually stores their energy.)

and also look at the lines themselves and compare.

So I posit to you gentlemen that if we can treat genjutsu as a weak version of a "Divine Sense" attack if you will.

And divine sense attacks affecting mortals is constant in the genre.

The sorter quotable version.

Online
Avatar image for maiitoguy8
#26 Posted by MaiitoGuy8 (126 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of characters can.

Avatar image for almighty
#27 Posted by ALMIGHTY (2668 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter since he can't "disrupt chakra flow" lmao

Avatar image for tvc-15
#28 Posted by TVC-15 (4196 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15: No, it isn't. Its been specifically stated that Tsukoyomi cannot be broken out of without breaking the Genjutsu via theSharingan. Again, both of your examples were Sharingan users.

No it said only a Uchiha could do it. Danzo disproves that notion.

Avatar image for gnomishness
#29 Edited by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@sayo786:

Biggest pile of NLF i have ever seen. It's an illusion.

This depends on the specific Genjutsu, but it's rarely "just" an illusion. Even the more common Genjutsu will typically restrict control of your movements. And stuff like Tsukuyomi generate a time squeeze sever enough that even if immediate action is taken outside the illusion, you'll still be forced to experience multiple days of torture and mental conditioning inside a world that your opponent has full control over.

The moment galactus uses any of his powers, he gg planet reks inside the illusion itachi put him in, what does that result in? Him breaking out.

So yes, in this scenario, Galactus would still destroy the planet, probably. But if he's even slightly weak of mind, and not in a telepathic way, this is the sort of thing which would probably leave him catonic.

Take WBH and remove his TP resistance feats. Put him into an illusion and he destroys the illusionary world itself.

Except the illusion is controlled by the person casting it. Unless the illusion master is also placed under an illusion from within, the Illusion world set up would not be significantly influenced by the target as per common sense. What's being targeted with Genjutsu typically is the connection between your thoughts and your actions. Your though end up shafted into an ineffectual illusion world and you only end up taking action or attempting to take action there.

This is one of the reasons it pisses me off when people say that TP resistance should allow you to resist Genjutsu. There are in-universe several ways to resist Genjutsu, like removing the medium for your opponent to attack you with it. Or like finding and disrupting the energy manipulation which causes it. Or literally just experiencing the sensation of pain would be enough to draw your perception back to the real world (assuming you can cause that for yourself).

What is the strongest person in narutoverse on which genjutsu has worked on?

The Nine Tailed Fox is the strongest character who doesn't have the specific godly traits which cause innate resistance to Genjutsu. He's Island level, most people agree, and he has been trapped and manipulated with Genjutsu even from Teen Obito, a character who's at most building level.

And even Eos Naruto, who people debate against the likes of Wonder Woman and Unworthy Thor, would've supposedly fallen under the unbreakable influence of the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Take that character and any character above him/her should technically resist genjutsu altogether.

Except looking at Genjutsu logically, it has absolutely nothing to do with sheer power and everything to do with mental composure, situation preparation, skillful energy manipulation and mindful connection to the real world.

Then again naruto fanboys can't be reasoned with so genjutsu GG

Except people are running double-standards on this site. If Electricity manipulators like Storm are allowed to say "fry your brain from the inside GG" or Magnetism Manipulators like Magneto are allowed to instantly kill you with "magnetism to the brain", then why is Genjutsu not allowed even though that's basically the same thing and is treated as such, even in-verse?

Avatar image for darklegend
#30 Posted by DarkLegend (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@tvc-15:

No it said only a Uchiha could do it. Danzo disproves that notion.

I don't think Sasuke has Tsukuyomi in the first place. I think his was just a nameless genjutsu. He already has Amaterasu in his left eye and Kagatsuchi in his right -- those are his two Mangekyo techniques, then he has Susano-O. Of course for crossover matchups, I would never say only an Uchiha could break Itachi's Tsukuyomi anyway. Anyone with sufficient TP resistance could.

Avatar image for gnomishness
#31 Posted by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok:

Insert strongest character without feats to indicate they could resist a weak spirtual sense attack.

You're acting like Genjutsu is purely a spiritual sense attack when that clearly isn't the case. If that were true, then tropes like "believing in yourself" or "the power of friendship" would work to counter it, when clearly they do not. Genjutsu is basically a weak and limited form of brain-signal manipulation held together by a weak energy construct which is the Genjutsu itself.

Avatar image for gnomishness
#32 Posted by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklegend:

I don't think Sasuke has Tsukuyomi in the first place. I think his was just a nameless genjutsu.

It was called Tsukuyomi, but as Danzo points out, it doesn't have the time-squeeze element that Itachi's had, thus it's exponentially easier to resist.

Anyone with sufficient TP resistance could [resist Tsukuyomi].

Maybe, but without solid microsecond reaction time (I calced), they'd still have to experience some of it.

Avatar image for alphaq
#33 Posted by AlphaQ (4628 posts) - - Show Bio

Any character that can't resist having their senses manipulated.

Avatar image for darklegend
#34 Posted by DarkLegend (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness: Ah, I see. Thanks. I just checked the chapters again.

Micro second reaction time huh? That's interesting. Sounds legit to me I suppose.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#35 Edited by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness said:

@thekillerklok:

Insert strongest character without feats to indicate they could resist a weak spirtual sense attack.

You're acting like Genjutsu is purely a spiritual sense attack when that clearly isn't the case. If that were true, then tropes like "believing in yourself" or "the power of friendship" would work to counter it, when clearly they do not. Genjutsu is basically a weak and limited form of brain-signal manipulation held together by a weak energy construct which is the Genjutsu itself.

I legitimately confused. When has the power of friendship ever countered a Spiritual sense attack.

A kind of cold wave hit them, in Ning Cheng’s eyes there suddenly appeared a bright and clear path, Ning Cheng was just about to pull An Yi onto the path, when the Mysterious Yellow Bead emitted a burst of Qi. This burst of Qi invaded Ning Cheng and the cloudy and cold feeling was instantly dissipated from his body, immediately even the “patter” sounds of the footsteps that Ning Cheng heard had also gone.

I mean unless by power of friendship you mean main character plot item. also this guy can totes resist genjutsu.

and for funzies an example why genjutsu is weak.

“You should be happy,” the young man growled. “I usually only take people once, but you… I want you a second time!” As his hand latched onto Meng Hao’s shoulder, he licked his lips. He was just about to stick his hand into his robe when Meng Hao’s own hand shot up like lightning and grabbed the young man by the neck.

He squeezed softly, and the young man began to shake. Gaping, his face began to turn purple, and his eyes bulged, filled with an expression of disbelief and shock.

As soon as the Dao Protector saw what was happening, his face flickered. Before he could even move though, Meng Hao looked at him.

One look.

One gaze.

The man felt as if the Heavens were crushing down on him through that gaze. It was like the bright glow of a precious treasure, and it stabbed all the way into the man’s mind, where it became crashing lightning.

The Dao Protector didn’t even have the time to scream. He shook violently, and blood sprayed out of his mouth. He was instantly blinded, and then blood began to ooze out of his orifices. His qi passageways were shattered and his bones crushed. Then, he flopped over, twitched a few times, and rapidly withered up into ash, which then faded away. It all happened in the blink of an eye.

The only thing that remained of him was some white mist, which Meng Hao quickly absorbed.

Online
Avatar image for gnomishness
#36 Posted by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklegend:

Ah, I see. Thanks. I just checked the chapters again.

Happy to help.

Micro second reaction time huh? That's interesting. Sounds legit to me I suppose.

3 days within the space of a second. Even a single one of those seconds within that illusion world registers the pain of being stabbed in the gut about a dozen times. Pain which we're told transfers into the real world.

If you want to avoid spending even a full second under that tourture, you're going to need to dispel the illusion within the space of a microsecond.

Avatar image for almighty
#37 Edited by ALMIGHTY (2668 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness: Hmm so itachi thinks at microseconds now ? Doesn't matter how long he can make it feel before he is able to cause it to do so he has to think it into action and his brain does not processes at microseconds lol

Avatar image for gaoron
#38 Edited by Gaoron (2508 posts) - - Show Bio

Presence

Avatar image for maxxcveiler
#39 Posted by maxxcveiler (770 posts) - - Show Bio

ToAA

Avatar image for gnomishness
#40 Edited by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty:

Hmm so itachi thinks at microseconds now ?

Not necessarily. His techniques can, but he might not need to offer much input into them.

And anyway Tsukuyomi would imply that he actually thinks at Nanoseconds, since he would need to come up with tons of details for every second within the illusion.

Avatar image for almighty
#41 Posted by ALMIGHTY (2668 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness: He still needs to activate them and for you to imply it'll take someone with millisecond reactions is to imply itachi can activate the effects of tsykyomi at that speed, it doesn't matter that the technique operates at that speed he has to activate it first

Avatar image for gnomishness
#42 Posted by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok:

I legitimately confused. When has the power of friendship ever countered a Spiritual sense attack.

You would think an increase in spirit would help you resist an attack on the spirit.

Well, clearly I have not read enough Wuxia.

and for funzies an example why genjutsu is weak.

"The Dao Protector didn’t even have the time to scream. He shook violently, and blood sprayed out of his mouth. He was instantly blinded, and then blood began to ooze out of his orifices. His qi passageways were shattered and his bones crushed. Then, he flopped over, twitched a few times, and rapidly withered up into ash, which then faded away. It all happened in the blink of an eye.

The only thing that remained of him was some white mist, which Meng Hao quickly absorbed."

And that is basically definite proof that Genjutsu aren't Spiritual sense attacks.

Genjutsu don't show outward physical symptoms at all in the slightest, no matter how powerful they are.

What's being described here is some sort of Reitsu crush, or an application of the Gentle Fist triggered by Eyesight. The final effect of it seems akin to Kaguya's ash-bones technique.

Genjutsu literally means either Illusionary Techniques or Dream Techniques. It's not about attacking the spirit, except in the emotional sense.

Avatar image for gnomishness
#43 Edited by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@almighty:

He still needs to activate them and for you to imply it'll take someone with millisecond reactions is to imply itachi can activate the effects of tsykyomi at that speed, it doesn't matter that the technique operates at that speed he has to activate it first

I implied that if someone had an active way to dispel Illusions, between the time it takes for the illusion to hit them and for them to already be affected by it: the time period they would realistically have available to dispel the illusion, would be a mere microsecond.

They'd need to react in a microsecond to dispel the Tsukuyomi assuming Itachi had already cast it.

By feats, Itachi can preform actions within the span of Centiseconds, but that's about it.

Avatar image for azrael1973
#44 Edited by azrael1973 (1769 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos witt HoTU

Avatar image for cooljammy18
#45 Posted by cooljammy18 (1751 posts) - - Show Bio

With the logic of some of these Naruto fans it might as well be TOAA.

Avatar image for gnomishness
#46 Edited by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooljammy18:

With the logic of some of these Naruto fans it might as well be TOAA.

Oh? Which one's?

NoHate isn't a Naruto fan. He some sort of strawman piloted by a Naruto hater.

Avatar image for heirtothekingdom
#47 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (8921 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just telepathy/illusions.

Avatar image for almighty
#48 Edited by ALMIGHTY (2668 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness: But the seconds needed to dispel the illusion is meaningless in the confines of this thread if the character can react before the Genjutsu is activated as I said he can't activate it in microseconds so in relavance to this thread it would ultimately take someone with way less reaction speed than to avoid getting getting genjutsu gg'd

Avatar image for gnomishness
#49 Posted by Gnomishness (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom:

It's just telepathy/illusions.

I mean, it's pretty strong telepathy/illusions, and there are elements of paralysis and mind control as well, but yes.

Any unprepared thing with a biological brain, typical or similar senses to a standard human and eyes, should be vulnerable to it in theory. In practice, Genjutsu has other weaknesses.

I'd have guessed Zeno might be vulnerable due to his lack of fine control over his power, his naivety and (assuming he has a biological brain) possessing all of the qualities that would make him hypothetically vunerable.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#50 Edited by Thekillerklok (5922 posts) - - Show Bio

@gnomishness said:

@thekillerklok:

I legitimately confused. When has the power of friendship ever countered a Spiritual sense attack.

You would think an increase in spirit would help you resist an attack on the spirit.

Well, clearly I have not read enough Wuxia.

and for funzies an example why genjutsu is weak.

"The Dao Protector didn’t even have the time to scream. He shook violently, and blood sprayed out of his mouth. He was instantly blinded, and then blood began to ooze out of his orifices. His qi passageways were shattered and his bones crushed. Then, he flopped over, twitched a few times, and rapidly withered up into ash, which then faded away. It all happened in the blink of an eye.

The only thing that remained of him was some white mist, which Meng Hao quickly absorbed."

And that is basically definite proof that Genjutsu aren't Spiritual sense attacks.

Genjutsu don't show outward physical symptoms at all in the slightest, no matter how powerful they are.

What's being described here is some sort of Reitsu crush, or an application of the Gentle Fist triggered by Eyesight. The final effect of it seems akin to Kaguya's ash-bones technique.

Genjutsu literally means either Illusionary Techniques or Dream Techniques. It's not about attacking the spirit, except in the emotional sense.

Gah I lost power right before I could post an response... (sorry this one is going to lazier.)

The above feat was still a divine sense attack.

Genjutsu is basically a weak and limited form of brain-signal manipulation held together by a weak energy construct which is the Genjutsu itself.

to use your own quote the "Energy construct" isn't so weak and can basically as you said "reitsu crush." but it is still the same technique just a different application. basically same roots much higher branch.

Naruto characters don't really develop or improve their "Spirit" to the extent that most wuxia characters do but the application is just spot on for the technique itself. The comparison makes a lot more sense when looking at much less extreme wuxia characters. MH is just a fun extreme.

If you have some time go read a couple of modern wuxia novels if you want to get a feel for what I mean by "Spirit"

Online