"This is not up for debate, you all chose me to lead. When this mission is over, if you wish to select a new leader ill be happy to step down. But until that time, I am in command here."
--Aqualad.
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Superboy
A surprisingly skilled half kryptonian.
So like most kryptonains Superboy his very strong, fast, and durable...
Here he tanks gun fire and a tank shell no damage....and rips apart a tank....seems like some pretty quantifiable strength and durability.
Here Superboy 100% outpaces bullets he was now where to be seen when the bullets were fired and still intercepted them, so mach+ speed is easily provable.
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Superboy has also faced some mighty foes.
Like a mind controlled Superman that was not pulling his punches.....
Well my team has no prep specifically for this battle but they've trained together for years....and as members of young justice are all connected by a standard communication link.
Knowledge means they know the basic capabilities of who they are fighting (some fancy robot suits)
The location has plenty of water for Aqualad to work with
Those are the basic capabilities of my team, lots of other feats tho, to prove consistency, I need to make some gifs but basically just stuff on this level, like Beetle KOing the terror twins, or Superboy taking hits from a Superman empowered Amazo..
Physically they are way above any Stark tech, in speed, durability and strength....Beetle can match or exceed Tonys hacking capabilities, and I think Beetle and Superboy can beat stark tech in energy projection.....add all this together with Aqualads control over massive amount of water and the fight becomes clear.
I think my team is way more skilled with better teamwork, along with better stats and overall versatility.
@cocacolaman would you be interested in picking this up using the MCU Team? I know you debate for the MCU and you were in my last tourney, so I wanted to ask. You can't change your perks though as I don't want to hear complaints about counter building
@cocacolaman: thank you so much man. alright the posting limit is 9 days. 3 have passed, but I am more than willing to give you a 3 day extension if need be.
@death4bunnies so you are in the loop, CocaCola is your opponent
Here, I'm going to take an unorthodox approach. Instead of posting my character's feats and then going though each of my opponent's points, I'm going to provide a really short summary of what my opponent has posted and expand from there on why the Younglings are less than equipped for this fight by showing how any of their advantages (if they exist) are small, can be countered, and will be overshadowed by the advantages my team brings.
Superboy
From what my opponent has shown thus far, Connor can no sell bullets and tank... tank shells, while also being strong enough to throw multiple tons around like they're nothing and fast enough to move at supersonic speeds. Other than that, he provided a lot of scaling, but he hasn't actually shown why that scaling is impressive.
Aqualad
So, Aqualad has explosion-proof shields, some water streams, he's weaker than Superboy, and he can react to energy blasts.
Blue Beetle
The guy from Batman: The Brave and the Bold has some restraining devices, physical weapons he can make from his armor, energy attacks capable of blowing up rocks, he has some striking feats like knocking out Connor, he tagged a speedster, and tanked lava.
Prep and Perks
Bunny points out that his team has a lot of experience working with each other, they have knowledge on their opponents, and Aqualad has a favorable setting. Superboy has gear that amps him considerably from his earlier feats. He can get hit pretty hard and fight people who were beating him badly. He has after image level speed and he can ravage a swath of land with his heat vision.
Now that we've gone through that, let's look at my issues with these assertions.
Speed
Here's what you've showed for your guys.
Superboy moved faster than bullets.
Aqualad reacted to energy blasts
Blue tagged Impulse
See, there's an issue here. My opponent gave no indication whatsoever of Impulse's speed, or those energy blasts. Now, I can't just assume that they're fast, so all I can assume is that Superboy is carrying his team in this department. Unfortunately, my team has feats that make it impossible for Superboy to blitz.
In other words, my slowest character has casual near-Mach reactions, and that still surpasses 2/3 of my opponents right now. There's also the fact you can't dodge my energy attacks that move at supersonic speeds consistently.
I get that Superboy has his shields, but really, you'll need better feats than this. War Machine could overpower him based on what I'm seeing, and not only that, but due to the nature of Rhodey's tech, he could very easily overpower someone and shoot them in the head, or overpower one while shooting another. This would leave Peter and Tony to fight the one guy left together, and from what I'm seeing, the two could very easily overpower an opponent. Or, alternatively, while War Machine overpowers someone and shoots another, Tony can release an onslaught on the guy War Machine's holding, which would effectively eliminate two opponents at the same time. But to prove that tidbit, I need to prove my characters can harm yours, which is a matter of-
Durability
And I'm just going to be honest, it's not good. Aqualad was given nothing, only his water shields which not only took a bit to get up, but only resisted a room level explosion, which puts all its force over a large area, heavily reducing the force it would put over a smaller area like a fist. I don't see why Tony can't pierce through it with a tank buster missile, and then just one shot Aqualad, which you can't deny unless you're willing to put up some actual durability feats for him. That leaves the other two (am I the only one who noticed that them being massively better than Aqualad is a motif in this post?) Superboy tanked a tank shell, but since I've already shown Iron Man actually busting a tank, I think Connor will be under some significant heat. Literally, in fact, since Iron Man's Unibeam is hot enough to turn a thick metal arm into slag instantaneously. For H2H, War Machine obliterated an Ultron Bot (he did the same with bullets) and they crater the floor of the Helicarrier while still intact enough to no sell handgun bullets. Blue Beetle got no durability feats except lava, but since Lava is cooler than the Unibeam, I think we're good on that front, not to mention that's a heat feat, but nothing relating to force.
Attacking
Finally, we get to the ability of my team to overcome your offense. If you were hoping to get some breathing room here, you're wrong.
Superboy had Heat Vision that mowed through stuff
Aqualad had a water thing (why is he here?)
Blue Beetle KOed Superboy, plus a lot more neat stuff.
Nothing you showed can really get through Stark tech, though.
Also, all these three guys should scale above Avengers Iron Man in durability considering the advance in tech (plus, Peter has superhuman stats himself beneath the suit) and Avengers IM got grounded up in supersonic, building sized metal rotors for several seconds and was perfectly fine. Since nothing you showed comes close to that level of force, I see no reason my team will go down soon.
Now, Blue Beetle had some versatility, right? Well, he had some piercing stuff (good and all, but so far he doesn't have the feats to tag my characters in the first place.) He also had blunt force, which I've addressed, and energy attacks, which don't compare to Thor's lightning that Tony tanked. The only other thing was sonics, which are neat, but War Machine has those, too. Not to mention, Tony already dodged a supersonic attack, so a sonic attack shouldn't be much issue.
Also, Aqualad needs help. His attack got dispersed by a weak attack in your own GIF. My team wouldn't even have to try to disperse that.
The Fight Strategy
Here's my strategy.
Spider-Man webs up the whole place while Tony summons his Iron Legion. I've got unlimited ammo and an hour prep, so try and stop me.
When the team gets dropped into the field, they get bombarded with repulsors, missiles, and bullets.
Aqualad dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if Blue Beetle does, too. Superboy would then have to face my team alone.
Here's why I think these work.
Phase 1
This is where you can't do anything. My team is on the field, they can make the whole area swamped in webbing. Since webbing can resist the pull of two sides of a Ferry for a short period of time, I don't see why your team would effortlessly walk through that, and considering Peter's speed and the help he can get from the others in getting around with flight, I think webbing the whole place up is not just possible, but plausible. Then you've got the flying Iron Legion, plus Tony and Rhodey, who would easily avoid the webbing by staying up in the air, and with Spider-Man's adhesive abilities, he can stick onto Tony or Rhodey so he doesn't get caught in his own webs. The Iron Legion, aren't necessary, but they can definitely help.
I mean, you can't do anything about this. They've got the prep.
Phase 2
When the YJ teens get onto the field, they'll be caught up in the webbing. Though it won't immobilize them, it will hinder their movement for the short bit of time it takes the team to let loose on them. Aqualad gets his face melted off by a repulsor, Blue Beetle probably won't be conscious afterwards, and Superboy will be feeling major pain.
Phase 3
Now Superboy is alone. Superboy would get ganged up on by two guys with comparable strength at least and the speed to keep up, and he'd be further bombarded by my team. He can only take so much punishment. And since he can't put my team down in a timely manner, this can't be countered with him just knocking them away and letting loose on them.
Conclusion
I'm basing my entire post off the knowledge I'm getting from my opponent. I may change it accordingly if more feats are shown, but this is what I've got. Aqualad is going to get stomped, Blue Beetle isn't going to stay around for very long, and Superboy can't solo. So, in the end, my team will emerge victorious.
Sweet, I will follow my opponents lead and answer the questions he asked.
You said.
See, there's an issue here. My opponent gave no indication whatsoever of Impulse's speed, or those energy blasts. Now, I can't just assume that they're fast, so all I can assume is that Superboy is carrying his team in this department. Unfortunately, my team has feats that make it impossible for Superboy to blitz.
In other words, my slowest character has casual near-Mach reactions, and that still surpasses 2/3 of my opponents right now. There's also the fact you can't dodge my energy attacks that move at supersonic speeds consistently.
Question 2: how fast are the lasers that Aqualad reacted to?
Admittedly I dont now..um pretty fast, just basic energy shot reaction I guess.
Question 3: Can Superboy blitz?
Yes he defiantly can.
Simply put Superboy not only blocks bullets, he outraces them by about double... pretty well evidenced by him being nowhere to be seen when the bullets are fired in the scan above....thats movement speed thats 2x the reaction speed your best character...Spiderman.
Not only that, but that was pre amp....and I can outright prove that his patches amp his speed along with his other stats.
See that scan above is Superboy at base, something his clone is capable of.
With his patches, Superboy is >> his clone...in all stats including speed.
So with his patches he is faster than even himself, who is already faster than your fastest guy.
He uses this speed in combat to great effect.
I dont think you've proven that any of your characters can react to, let alone move at the kinda speed.
Reactions / Combat speed.....Ironman may be able to react to a shell from a distance, but he does not move dynamically at these speeds.....Spiderman may be able to pre-cog his way out of some gunfire, but his body just doesnt move this ^^ fast.
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Question 4: can you see Blue Beetle team busting??
I get that Superboy has his shields, but really, you'll need better feats than this. War Machine could overpower him based on what I'm seeing, and not only that, but due to the nature of Rhodey's tech, he could very easily overpower someone and shoot them in the head, or overpower one while shooting another. This would leave Peter and Tony to fight the one guy left together, and from what I'm seeing, the two could very easily overpower an opponent. Or, alternatively, while War Machine overpowers someone and shoots another, Tony can release an onslaught on the guy War Machine's holding, which would effectively eliminate two opponents at the same time. But to prove that tidbit, I need to prove my characters can harm yours, which is a matter of-
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No... he tears the top off of a tank which is >> lifting one.
Spiderman did not hold a ferry together, his webs did, once they started breaking he started failing. He never held it unassisted and I dont think we know how much was on him and how much was on the webs
Also not building sized rotors, also they are made to spin, not even a strength feat.
Superboys strength is actually born out in his striking....
Beetle also has better strength and striking than anyone on your team
Punches through Toyman's mech's wrist (just to show some metal, KOing Superboy and beating the team, plus Black Beetle scaling is above your teams striking and strength)
Clear strength gap here, added to the already proven speed gap.
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Durability
You said
And I'm just going to be honest, it's not good. Aqualad was given nothing, only his water shields which not only took a bit to get up, but only resisted a room level explosion, which puts all its force over a large area, heavily reducing the force it would put over a smaller area like a fist. I don't see why Tony can't pierce through it with a tank buster missile, and then just one shot Aqualad, which you can't deny unless you're willing to put up some actual durability feats for him. That leaves the other two (am I the only one who noticed that them being massively better than Aqualad is a motif in this post?) Superboy tanked a tank shell, but since I've already shown Iron Man actually busting a tank, I think Connor will be under some significant heat. Literally, in fact, since Iron Man's Unibeam is hot enough to turn a thick metal arm into slag instantaneously. For H2H, War Machine obliterated an Ultron Bot (he did the same with bullets) and they crater the floor of the Helicarrier while still intact enough to no sell handgun bullets. Blue Beetle got no durability feats except lava, but since Lava is cooler than the Unibeam, I think we're good on that front, not to mention that's a heat feat, but nothing relating to force.
Im starting to think you didnt read my post.
That is at least 6 ft of concrete with extreme low ball.
Mind you that was secondary force, as in superman punched Superboy in the jaw so hard he flew through 6 foot of concrete fast enough to fracture a second layer of concrete.
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I showed energy resistance....like 6x...but all you saw was tank shell??
Here let me be explicit....Ironman can not reasonably harm Superboy, especially with his patches.
Also, all these three guys should scale above Avengers Iron Man in durability considering the advance in tech (plus, Peter has superhuman stats himself beneath the suit) and Avengers IM got grounded up in supersonic, building sized metal rotors for several seconds and was perfectly fine. Since nothing you showed comes close to that level of force, I see no reason my team will go down soon.
Now, Blue Beetle had some versatility, right? Well, he had some piercing stuff (good and all, but so far he doesn't have the feats to tag my characters in the first place.) He also had blunt force, which I've addressed, and energy attacks, which don't compare to Thor's lightning that Tony tanked. The only other thing was sonics, which are neat, but War Machine has those, too. Not to mention, Tony already dodged a supersonic attack, so a sonic attack shouldn't be much issue.
Also, Aqualad needs help. His attack got dispersed by a weak attack in your own GIF. My team wouldn't even have to try to disperse that.
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Holy moly...are you calling this a mountain busting attack??
It left every body in tact and every building standing ...lol
Funnier still there are reporters standing like 10 feet away from him durning the missile strike.
Not the same as a concentrated jehrico, Ironmans armor has never been at that level, and was not at that level even in the scan you provided.
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Spiderman did not tank a train, he was pretty messed up from a single hit.
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Saying things like Blue Beetle doesnt have the feats to tag your characters seems silly as reactions=/= movement,..oh and also he tagged Impulse.
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Aqualad has near Superboy stats with added water powers, hell be fine.
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Phase 1 -- Superboy and Beetle fly so webbing isnt to much of a issue for them.....Superboy and beetle can also casually melt any webbing, prolly wont need to tho, because they fly.
Beetle and Superboys energy projection would destroy Pre IW Stark armor, also their physical attacks would destroy that armor.
Also your sleeping on Aqualad, even with his feet webbed to the ground, he pretty casually beats team MCU.
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There is no phase 2, Superboy uses his speed really well in character.
Beetle can definilty tag anyone here and no one has the feat on the level to withstand 2-3 punches from either.
Aqualad dosnt need to move around much, his power will do most the work for him.
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Conclusion.
Feats are feats and MCU just is not up to snuff compared to this animated universe.
I was gonna bring up things like skills and teamwork, (Aqualad has tons of training, Beetle gets AI tactical advise, and Superboy is extremely skilled for a kryptonain.
Plus you know training with Superman, and Shazam, and his time on the team.
Have you ever seen a kryptonain do a spin kick?
YJ has a few training montages together, so I think they are just better at team work.
The feats ive shown are not at all inconsistent or outliers....For example
Neat. That does complicate things a bit, but I still think my characters have the speed required to not get blitzed.
Admittedly I dont now..um pretty fast, just basic energy shot reaction I guess.
Well, if that's all, then I don't see why Aqualad won't get tagged by repulsors.
Simply put Superboy not only blocks bullets, he outraces them by about double... pretty well evidenced by him being nowhere to be seen when the bullets are fired in the scan above....thats movement speed thats 2x the reaction speed your best character...Spiderman.
I'm going to assume those bullets are the average of 1700 mph. That's Mach 2.2, meaning that to be 2x faster, Superboy would be Mach 4.4. But this isn't any significant advantage at all. In his first movie, Tony reacted to a point-blank supersonic projectile, which I consider good enough to not get blitzed, and Iron Man has gone through some armors since then. Similarly, Spider-Man was untagged through an onslaught of bullets. You yourself have admitted to Spider-Man having similar speed to this in a CaV of yours.
It fires and we see that a mach 3 bullet(thats a bit of a lowball but I dont have the caliber so I assumed a mid sized rife). We see the flash of the muzzle and it lights ups Peter.
Peter moves about the same distance as the bullet in the same time frame, Peter can move and perceive at the speed of this bullet...on screen....about mach 3.
The scene below shows that this isnt a one off, but something he can replicate.
It shows that he can do his quantifiable bullet speed (about mach 3) stuff, in a in combat situations, from multiple angles. I mean do you really think it would of gone any differently if it was 10 men with assault rifles instead of 10 drones duel wielding?
I know its not a mach cone, but its quantifiably mach 3.
Its clear that Spiderman can and has strait up dodged bullets from near point blank range(less than 2 feet).
Spiderman is too fast for Nam Ek strait out, and when we include his Spider Sense there is no reason Nam Ek(who you could only show as mach 1) should ever tag Spiderman.
1000+ mach 3 bullets, fired by 10+ drones, each with 2 guns a piece, from multiple angles, couldnt hit Spiderman when he was using his spider sense.
Unless those feats only apply when it works for you, I don't really see why you'd go against your own word.
Not only that, but that was pre amp....and I can outright prove that his patches amp his speed along with his other stats.
See that scan above is Superboy at base, something his clone is capable of.
With his patches, Superboy is >> his clone...in all stats including speed.
Okay, now this could be an issue. But remember my strategy for dealing with this. Superboy will be hindered when he comes on scene by the webbing, and even if he survives the onslaught that comes from that distraction, he would still have to fight three people at the same time. Since he can't, he runs the risk of getting tagged while attacking someone else.
I dont think you've proven that any of your characters can react to, let alone move at the kinda speed.
Reactions / Combat speed.....Ironman may be able to react to a shell from a distance, but he does not move dynamically at these speeds.....Spiderman may be able to pre-cog his way out of some gunfire, but his body just doesnt move this ^^ fast.
Admittedly, my characters don't specialize in speed. They don't attack at super speed like that. But don't think that they have to just to stand a chance. If they can dodge a punch from Superboy, they can attack, and since he'd have to be pretty close to them to throw a punch, he wouldn't have enough time to react to a high-speed attack. That opens him up for another attack, and then another.
Your first instance of team busting is legit, but the Black Beetle scaling doesn't hold for me. It looks like Blue won in a very specific way that he couldn't apply to anyone not wearing the scarab. Unless that applies to all technology? In which case, can you prove the scarab can hack other tech as well as it can other scarabs?
STRENGTH
No... he tears the top off of a tank which is >> lifting one.
Not following the logic there. The top of a tank doesn't weigh as much as the whole thing, so how would tearing it from metal (pretty easy for this tier) be special>
Spiderman did not hold a ferry together, his webs did, once they started breaking he started failing. He never held it unassisted and I dont think we know how much was on him and how much was on the webs
Here's a link to the full video. Peter doesn't interfere until after a good bit of his webs have broken. When he does, the ship's splitting is slowed down to the point I personally can't notice it. That's still incredibly good strength, even if it isn't as impressive as straight up lifting it, and is above what you've shown.
Also not building sized rotors, also they are made to spin, not even a strength feat.
Here's a picture of the 1400 ft Helicarrier.
The Helicarrier is skyscraper sized, and those rotors make up a good bit of the HC. Saying the collective size of a rotor is building sized isn't an overstatement at all. Them being made to spin doesn't matter, saying it's not a strength feat is like saying that it's not a strength feat to push a car, which is not exactly the easiest thing. Plus, there would have been no logical reason for Iron Man to stay pushing the rotors if he only needed to get it started.
A super soldier tanked being sent through a boulder. Iron Man fought two of them at the same time, and only lost because he was caught off guard. And tipping over a rock doesn't seem that much more impressive than what Spidey has done with the ferry.
Beetle also has better strength and striking than anyone on your team
Punches through Toyman's mech's wrist (just to show some metal, KOing Superboy and beating the team, plus Black Beetle scaling is above your teams striking and strength)
Clear strength gap here, added to the already proven speed gap.
It looks impressive, but destroying that small amount of metal isn't quite superior to War Machine wrecking an Ultron Bot in one punch.
Okay, I can't deny that that's crazy. But I believe that, considering the heat of the energy attacks my team has and the fact that this feat had the force covering the entire surface area of Blue Beetle's body, while a punch or bullet would focus it all into a smaller area, they can still put some pain on him.
DURABILITY
Im starting to think you didnt read my post.
All your feats with guys like AMAZO, Ojo, etc. were excluded because you gave no reason for why tanking their stuff is impressive. I figured you'd reference it this post, and didn't want to get snappy immediately about how you needed to quantify it all.
Mind you that was secondary force, as in superman punched Superboy in the jaw so hard he flew through 6 foot of concrete fast enough to fracture a second layer of concrete.
I already addressed that Thor's lightning is superior to that and Tony took it.
^
Assuming that's as strong as Blue's, Iron Man vaporized a thick metal arm with his Unibeam. That should be comparable to the boulder feat.
I would like to introduce you to the term "Outlier." It's what happens when one feat is literally billions (not a hyperbole) of time superior to anything else you've shown.
There you go, energy specific feats, saying my guys can tank some replacer tech....No member of this team is not going down easy.
And those two can...?
That's a nice, solid feat.
Not only was the NG taking multiple of them, but I'm not seeing how this applies to any of my dudes' specific skillsets.
ATTACK
Holy moly...are you calling this a mountain busting attack??
No, why would I? I didn't see any mountains busted. But it clearly had an immense amount of AP, considering it created massive explosions.
Not the same as a concentrated jehrico, Ironmans armor has never been at that level, and was not at that level even in the scan you provided.
So, after seeing Iron Man tank a JERICHO Strike, your response is that he can't? I'd get it if it was at least inconsistent, but Tony got hit by Thor several times, got crushed by the Helicarrier rotors, and got hit by a missile that crashed him to the ground where he made a crater, so it's not unbelievable at all.
Spiderman did not tank a train, he was pretty messed up from a single hit.
That train hit a lot harder than anyone on your team, so the fact Spidey was still conscious and capable of walking after it is proof enough he can take a hit. And, again, he wasn't in Stark armor.
Saying things like Blue Beetle doesnt have the feats to tag your characters seems silly as reactions=/= movement,..oh and also he tagged Impulse.
Well, now I realize he does, so I retract that statement. But he's not going to be blitzing or anything, and he isn't going to be statuing my characters or anything like that.
Also, you sum up my point about Superboy perfectly. My characters are fast enough to react and tag him, which is all they need.
Aqualad has near Superboy stats with added water powers, hell be fine.
K
Phase 1 -- Superboy and Beetle fly so webbing isnt to much of a issue for them.....Superboy and beetle can also casually melt any webbing, prolly wont need to tho, because they fly.
Unless they come into the battle flying, this isn't going to help them much. Plus, Spidey can web the air, too, like with the Ferry.
Yeah, they can destroy the webbing, but all they need is to be distracted for a second. Then my team can unload on them.
Beetle and Superboys energy projection would destroy Pre IW Stark armor, also their physical attacks would destroy that armor.
Also your sleeping on Aqualad, even with his feet webbed to the ground, he pretty casually beats team MCU.
I don't believe you've proved that properly. Tony's early armors took force like none your guys can dish out and he was fine. I'm honestly considering making my whole conclusion Tony's fight with Thor broken down.
That water feat won't work too well if Aqualad is pierced through at the very beginning.
There is no phase 2, Superboy uses his speed really well in character.
Beetle can definilty tag anyone here and no one has the feat on the level to withstand 2-3 punches from either.
Aqualad dosnt need to move around much, his power will do most the work for him.
I find it weird you talk about how Superboy's faster and then use the argument for why slower characters can tag faster ones in the next breath. But anyway, SB will be tagged and taken down by Iron Man, and Blue Beetle can get taken down by War Machine. Or vice versa. I'm not picky.
Feats are feats and MCU just is not up to snuff compared to this animated universe.
I was gonna bring up things like skills and teamwork, (Aqualad has tons of training, Beetle gets AI tactical advise, and Superboy is extremely skilled for a kryptonain.
Tony adapted to Captain America, so don't go this route. Or, actually, please do it, because then I can get an easy point.
YJ has a few training montages together, so I think they are just better at team work.
Can't deny this much.
The feats ive shown are not at all inconsistent or outliers....For example
You do realize you insinuated Blue Beetle has mountain level durability, right?
The only issue I have with your prep is the idea that my guys start webbed up..... I think you can prep the field, but it seems odd that my characters would start webbed up....thats like saying someone starts on a landmine.
Anyway, even if my guys start with their feet webbed to the ground(I dont think they should), any of my team can free themselves with energy attacks..Spidermans webs also fail to 'sharp' things...Superboy could clear the street of webbing easily.
^^A ranged attack that would ragdoll Ironman while clearing out the webbing (clearing out most of the payment also), and defiantly damage Ironmans armor(Unless you have another feat for Ironman besides the non JERICHO.).^^
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SPEED
Ummm, Spiderman with his precog can dodge a bunch off bullets and thats awesome, he is also really fast, the feat I showed in my old cav to prove his 'movement speed' is this. (a feat you did not show)
Anyways, that still puts Spiderman (your fastest guy) at only 1/4 to 1/2 the speed of Superboy.....^^ that feat is without precog, and he can move about as fast as the bullet.
Superboy crosses about 2x the distance of bullets evidenced by him being nowhere near Robin, strait outpacing them to save Robin.
Dont forget that Ive proved that Superboy his much faster than this quantifiable bullet feat with his enhancement patches.
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Admittedly, my characters don't specialize in speed. They don't attack at super speed like that. But don't think that they have to just to stand a chance. If they can dodge a punch from Superboy, they can attack, and since he'd have to be pretty close to them to throw a punch, he wouldn't have enough time to react to a high-speed attack. That opens him up for another attack, and then another.
I think the opposite is true, Superrboy will be the one more likely to land the first strike, and is more likely to dodge attacks, and also he does throw his punches like a machine gun.
Your first instance of team busting is legit, but the Black Beetle scaling doesn't hold for me. It looks like Blue won in a very specific way that he couldn't apply to anyone not wearing the scarab. Unless that applies to all technology? In which case, can you prove the scarab can hack other tech as well as it can other scarabs?
But the Black Beetle scaling is legit, they fought pretty evenly for a good minute, and there isnt really a difference between the Beetles, except symbiosis, and Blue is the first beetle to reach full symbiosis.
Hacking is a win condition, but so is Blue just beating a Ironman to death.
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STRENGTH
I scaled Warmachine and Superboy to the same size in the image above, just the top of super boys tank is about the size of Warmachines tank......Also look at the torn tank metal, Superboy not only lifted the weight, he ripped the metal.
Ripping tank metal with his lift >> Warmachines lift.
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Ironmans rotor lift???
First off its not a lift, he pushed a fair amount of stuff out of the way, but the rotors are made to spin, like a wheel on a barring, or a sideways bike tire.
Anyway they also were not building sized.
You said the Helicarrier was 1400 ft long.
I made the ruler 14mm long, so each mm represents 100 ft......the blades were about 50ft long.
And about 10 ft tall.
Barley the size of the front wall of my house....not building sized.
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Spidermans lift
Here's a link to the full video. Peter doesn't interfere until after a good bit of his webs have broken. When he does, the ship's splitting is slowed down to the point I personally can't notice it. That's still incredibly good strength, even if it isn't as impressive as straight up lifting it, and is above what you've shown.
I personally dont use this feat because it has a major flaw.....You said until a good bit of his web broken, but how much weight is on those webs seems relevant...The fact that both him and his webs were failing also seems relevant... basically im saying you dont know how much he was lifting because you dont know how much of the work the remaining webs were doing..some id think.
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The feats that have been shown throughout this Cav for my team are just above this, and more importantly they directly show this strength in there striking...
I know I said this before but it bares repeating.
My teams strength is actually born out in their striking....
You mentioned something about Warmachine punching out a Ultron bot(a feat you referenced but didnt show and then I had to find). It doesnt seem to be more metal than when Blue Punches through Toyman's mech's wrist...anyway, like I said the toy man feat was just to show some metal in a quantifiable way... Beetles feats of KOing Superboy, and the Terrors are way above team Ironmans striking..and his quantifiable is better too.
And nowhere.. not once does it ever say the word JERICHO.
Its clearly not visually the same damage as the jerhico from ironman 1 as buildings are still standing and there is a news crew right there...also they never say JERHICO....., if you read the comic it turns out that was a targeted strike, ment to not harm the civilians or ironman(Rhodey was the one who sent the military)
Not a jehicro.
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Conclusion
I dont even know how to finish, there is just a clear gap here.
Any single member of my team would be a good fight for the Ironfamily (pre IW)..
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Beetle with his staples that restrain wondergirl, reactions to tag impulse, striking that KOs Superboy and the Terrors and his crazy durability.
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Superboy with his mach + combat speed, durability to tank superman punches, energy attacks with feats, tank shells and tons of gunfire rapid fire in character punches, heatvision that raises the ground.
Superboy is fast and durable, and doesn't let up.
The whole canyon was coming down, he was punching so hard the other side of the mountain was falling apart and almost landing on his team.
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Aqualad.
KO'd Superboy, holds grenades in his bare hands also has quick draw shields, and massive hard water attacks.
I understand your gonna try to scale Ironman to Thor....When you do can you show me the Thor strength feat (pre ragnorok amp) that beats this Aquaboy feat????? ....That is a giant spire that Aquaboy broke from the ocean floor pretty casually.
Also, Ironman doesnt compare to Thor, he could do no damage to Thor, while Thor was crushing him pretty casually...Look forward to the breakdown, just be sure not to forget to explain why Ironman fighting pre ragnork Thor who is holding back, compares to... say Superboys Mach + Combat speed.
I'm totally not reusing that picture because I'm too lazy to get a new one.
The only issue I have with your prep is the idea that my guys start webbed up..... I think you can prep the field, but it seems odd that my characters would start webbed up....thats like saying someone starts on a landmine.
That's the point of my strategy. Everywhere is webbed up. You would have to get dropped pretty much outside the battlefield for you to avoid this.
Anyway, even if my guys start with their feet webbed to the ground(I dont think they should), any of my team can free themselves with energy attacks..Spidermans webs also fail to 'sharp' things...Superboy could clear the street of webbing easily.
You're right. But because of the distraction of the webs, my team can start their attack on your team, since my guys had the one hour of prep, so they'll be perfectly out of the way of the webbing.
^^A ranged attack that would ragdoll Ironman while clearing out the webbing (clearing out most of the payment also), and defiantly damage Ironmans armor(Unless you have another feat for Ironman besides the non JERICHO.).^^
Tony took Thor's lightning. I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to do anything major.
SPEED
Ummm, Spiderman with his precog can dodge a bunch off bullets and thats awesome, he is also really fast, the feat I showed in my old cav to prove his 'movement speed' is this. (a feat you did not show)
Anyways, that still puts Spiderman (your fastest guy) at only 1/4 to 1/2 the speed of Superboy.....^^ that feat is without precog, and he can move about as fast as the bullet.
See, Spider-Man has his Tingle, so him not having it is not an issue that's relevant here. But even if this feat of yours is at Mach 5 (I honestly doubt it) Spider-Man without using his Peter Tingle is still over 1/2 of Superboy's speed.
But, as I'm sure voters realize, Spider-Man can't beat Superboy, right? True, but Peter can use his speed to catch Connor with his webs. As I showed, Spider-Man is really strong, strong enough to go at it with Connor's strength.
Superboy crosses about 2x the distance of bullets evidenced by him being nowhere near Robin, strait outpacing them to save Robin.
Dont forget that Ive proved that Superboy his much faster than this quantifiable bullet feat with his enhancement patches.
I can't deny that this is more impressive than what my guys have showed, sadly, and the patches don't make it easier. But consider the difference between "matching" and "reacting," and what is necessary. Even if Superboy is faster than my guys, one of them has the ability to predict his attacks (I could argue for Tony's combat analysis, but you've already made your last post, so I'll refrain.) It requires you to be a lot faster than someone for you to be incapable of tagging them, and Iron Man and War Machine (my heavy hitters) most definitely can react and hit him. If Superboy gets hit, he'll have to no sell (which he can't) or else he'll be stunned. Then he'll get hit again. If he's facing two opponents, you can forget recovering soon enough to overpower my guys.
I think the opposite is true, Superrboy will be the one more likely to land the first strike, and is more likely to dodge attacks, and also he does throw his punches like a machine gun.
After he gets hit for a few seconds by bullets, repulsors, and missiles, I can't imagine him operating at top efficiency to spam punches like that, anyway. And Superboy can't attack three people at the same time properly. If he uses one hand for Tony and another Rhodes, that leaves Peter to pull him back. If he focuses on one guy, he's getting blasted.. So his machine gun punches wouldn't last long.
But the Black Beetle scaling is legit, they fought pretty evenly for a good minute, and there isnt really a difference between the Beetles, except symbiosis, and Blue is the first beetle to reach full symbiosis.
Hacking is a win condition, but so is Blue just beating a Ironman to death.
So the Black Beetle scaling is legit. However, I still think my team has shown the proper feats to counter.
STRENGTH
I scaled Warmachine and Superboy to the same size in the image above, just the top of super boys tank is about the size of Warmachines tank......Also look at the torn tank metal, Superboy not only lifted the weight, he ripped the metal.
Ripping tank metal with his lift >> Warmachines lift.
This is assuming that War Machine and Superboy are the same size, but let's assume they are. This makes War Machine and Superboy close in strength. The fact Superboy ripped through tank metal doesn't really mean much when Iron Man back in his pre-Avengers days tore through Hammer Drones.
Ironmans rotor lift???
First off its not a lift, he pushed a fair amount of stuff out of the way, but the rotors are made to spin, like a wheel on a barring, or a sideways bike tire.
I never said Iron Man lifted it, though. You can use CTRL + F and type in "lift."
Anyway they also were not building sized.
You said the Helicarrier was 1400 ft long.
I made the ruler 14mm long, so each mm represents 100 ft......the blades were about 50ft long.
And about 10 ft tall.
Barley the size of the front wall of my house....not building sized.
Iron Man didn't push one rotor blade, he had to move all of them. If he couldn't push all of the blades, he wouldn't have been able to do what he did.
I personally dont use this feat because it has a major flaw.....You said until a good bit of his web broken, but how much weight is on those webs seems relevant...The fact that both him and his webs were failing also seems relevant... basically im saying you dont know how much he was lifting because you dont know how much of the work the remaining webs were doing..some id think.
It's true the webbing helped, but as we saw, the Ferry's speed in falling apart slowed when Peter got involved to the point I couldn't even notice it, so it's clear he was doing at least half the work.
I don't want to get repetitive with countering your striking/strength points, since I think I've made my beliefs clear there.
It doesnt seem to be more metal than when Blue Punches through Toyman's mech's wrist...anyway, like I said the toy man feat was just to show some metal in a quantifiable way... Beetles feats of KOing Superboy, and the Terrors are way above team Ironmans striking..and his quantifiable is better too.
It's more metal, but I didn't see any durability feats to suggest that metal is impressive in terms of durability.
ATTACK
Okay, kids, let that entire section be a lesson on why you do not debate with feats from a Reddit respect thread if you don't have the context. Congrats to D4B.
Conclusion
Sadly, this is my last post, so I won't introduce the whole argument of Thor scaling that I touched upon (we can argue that in a PM if you'd like, though.) However, I will say this.
can you show me the Thor strength feat (pre ragnorok amp) that beats this Aquaboy feat????? ....That is a giant spire that Aquaboy broke from the ocean floor pretty casually.
Thor matching the Hulk in strength in the Avengers, for one. Effortlessly swinging an arguably multi-ton hammer with enough force to send Hulk flying, for another. Ripping apart a spaceship in that Escape from Sakaar scene. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about, and this isn't wholly relevant here, so I'll refrain from links.
Now, for my final thoughts.
Iron Man, Spider-Man, and War Machine all can match the Young Justice team in terms of strength and can tank hits. Due to my strategy, my team is almost guaranteed the first hit. Considering the power of my attacks, at least Aqualad will go down. That leaves Superboy and Blue Beetle (maybe,) both of whom will be dazed from the onslaught and will be open to further attacks. It will be tough, but I believe my team will ultimately emerge victorious.
@cocacolaman: @death4bunnies:y'all are so fast lol. Alright I'll open this for votes. Thanks for getting out these posts so quickly and special thanks to Cocacola for filling in :)
While I personally think the DC team would win, I think ccb did a better job of explaining his feats, though it would have been good if he had expanded on the Thor scaling or Hulk punching a "100x harder" than Superboy. D4B on the other hand relied on a lot of scaling and I think didn't hammer in points that should've been easy wins, especially strength since MCU team, until IW, had never seriously contended with someone strong enough to pull down that massive pillar or collapse a bit of cliff.
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