Street Tier Deathmatch Tourney RD2: Deathhero61 vs Tomtheawesome123

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#1 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@deathhero61

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  • Shinzo Yozakura
  • Josuke Higashikata
  • Kyochiro Yozakura

That should be good for now. I may switch it up

Team Perks(2)

  1. Perfect Teamwork
  2. Full knowledge on Enemy

Character Perks(2)

  1. Unlimited ammo(Shinzo)
  2. MCU Vibranium Weapon
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@tomtheawesome123

  • 1. Ultimate Kars
  • 2. Scar from FMA
  • 3. Sing from Kung Fu Hustle

Perks

  • Full knowledge on enemy
  • Perfect Team Work

Character:

  • Teleporter for Scar
  • Invisibility for Scar

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap, KO
  2. In character
  3. No Prior Knowledge.
  4. Energies are not equalized.
  5. Characters start on opposite ends of a map
  6. Teamwork is not perfect but characters won't attack each other.
  7. There is Friendly Fire
  8. No BFR
  9. Standard Gear
  10. Character Limits and Banned Abilities

Battleground Cityscape A

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OK this is the map for round. You start on opposite sides of the map. Team 1 on the north and team 2 on the south. You are dropped off on the ground between buildings

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TAEP

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DeathHero61

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@tomtheawesome123

Introducing The Yozakuras

In the underworld, there are people of all backgrounds, assassins, thieves, mafia crime organizations, you name it. This world goes hand in hand with common society unknown to the common man.(Somehow) Among all these different types of people there is one group of people that is relatively well known: The Yozakura Family, a clan who's roots go as far back as the Edo period with a connection to Ninjas, each generation is blessed with a slew of offspring with superhuman abilities while one person is skipped, and essentially normal, that person is the head of the household. Mutsumi is the tenth head.

Read all manga collages I create from right to left unless specified otherwise. Treat it like reading a manga IRL or on the Viz website.

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Pretty much all of the Yozakura are remarkably specialized in one area while also being skilled in various martial arts, weapons and the like. Something I feel is worth mentioning before I get into their feats is the conditions that all Yozakuras live in.

The Yozakura family is one of the strongest group of people in the underworld. This gets to the point where Taiyo in order to be one of them and protect the 10th Head, which is the main objective of the family, he had to get stronger. And the standards for the Yozakura are rough, the real training of the Yozakura family is through real direct combat putting your life on the line, the rehearsal for that was surviving the house life of the Yozakura.

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Machine gun traps, pitfalls, trapdoors that respond to how you walk in the house, forcing you to use stealth to not get picked up on sensors, marksman training, responding to things instantly and having a good sense of your surroundings to ensure that you are on top of your shit. All while wearing weighted clothes. The daily Yozakura routine was an insane endurance test.

Most of the Yozakuras had to be recognized by the house by clearing all of these traps and this "rehearsal". That's the bare minimum. So this should give you an idea on the basic skills each family member has.

Kyochiro

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Kyochiro is the eldest brother, the most balanced, skilled and most terrifying of the Yozakuras.

To start, in the very first chapter, he bulldozed and cleared through all of the traps, explosives, and weapons Shinzo had laid out ot stop him, and changed up the layout so he wouldn't be familiar with it(the house normally has traps), Kyochiro dodged several of them, decided it was annoying, destroyed them and found his way to the living room where the family was holed up despite Shion locking down all paths to said room, and even got in the room without any of them noticing.

His siblings for the most part are on his tier, but his own level of strength and the sheer versatility and potency of his weapon, the Steel Spider, makes him really hard to take out. Which is why as you noticed in the second scan the percentage rates of the family taking him out is very low. When they got the jump on him, Futaba and Shinzo pinned him, Nanao punched him so hard he cratered the ground, he had no problem taking Nanao's attack, then proceeds to knock back Shinzo, cutting his garbage can tank, forced Futaba to change position and parry his attacks and knocked Nanao off of him as well.

Futaba is one of the physically strongest if not the strongest member of the family, Kyochiro couldn't stop her with normal methods while using his wires, however did skillfully trap her while she was focused on defending herself, wrapping her by hair, fingers, arms, wrists and legs binding her in a way where she could not produce any meaningful momentum, and if Futaba moved, the wires would cut her, showing how effective Kyochiro's fighting style is. He does something similar to Kengo and Goliath(family dog) as well in the same chapter, pinning the former in a way that he would ensnare the dog as well.

Now that you have an idea of his fighting style lets breakdown some of his feats. I will be brief to make this post shorter. In chapter 7 Kyochiro cuts a portion of a bridge and holds up an eight wheeler truck in place on top of his wires.

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This should give you a solid idea on what it means to be restrained by him, and what it means to get cut by him. I will have to ask for piercing and slashing resistance feats on par with Kyochiro's output for all of your characters. I am familiar with Kars and Scar and I know for a fact they are getting one shotted here.

As for speed, the most prominent example without wasting time doing a scaling chain is the impromptu training session he had with Taiyo in chapter 12, where he chucks pieces of chalk at the speed of sound, also stating that they have a little more force than a bullet, on top of the visible sonic booms they create, that makes them supersonic. Taiyo dodges one at the last second as he was waking up from his sleep. Him and Kyochiro get in a stupid battle where Kyochiro throws several pieces of chalk and Taiyo shoots down and deflects several of them while asleep.

If it wasn't already obvious, Kyochiro is the one training Taiyo throughout most of the story, so he scales.

He also has melee weapons for CQC.

Shinzo

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Shinzo is the weapons expert of the family. Demolitions, swords, guns, bombs, you name it. With an obsession with weapons since he was a child, he is always armed to the teeth so he's never without a weapon.

I think the best fight that represents how Shinzo fights is his fight against Nohmen in chapter 45. He busts through the building floor in his Garbage Can Tank, said tank is a cache of different weapons that rain fire and explosives on his enemy, opens fire against Nohmen, exits out of the can and puts it away, then starts firing machine guns and handguns at Nohmen as well and switching weapons regularly as each weapon runs out of ammunition, seemingly even somehow using several guns at once. As Nohmen closes in he switches to close quarters to intercept his attack. Showing that Shinzo is well equipped at long range, mid-range combat and close combat.

The weapons he has includes

His final weapon, that is his best weapon is Ukon-Tumeric Cherry Blossom.

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It's a formless weapon made of hundreds of different metals and materials that can take virtually any shape, allowing him to create almost any weapon, and even unique weapons with unique properties like a melting glaive, a sword that produces heat. Making a one man army into a jack of all trades.

Creates multiple melee weapons, transitions into cutting weapons and even a defensive shield.

The one thing that makes Shinzo a true weapon expert is his blooming, his special power. Similar to another character in this tourney, Karnak but on a much smaller scale, he can find the structural weak point of his enemies and pulverize them. Like one of his enemies was a living human/metal hybrid that could freely change his shape and form, and Shinzo with the help of his weapons destroyed the cellular metal responsible for allowing him to regenerate, by hitting him at the right angle, with the right vibration(he made a drill like weapon to pierce his body) to crush that weakpoint.

This means he can see weak points on a cellular level. He forced this character to make use of another source entirely then proceeded to overwhelm him with the sheer versatility of his weapon. Canons, swords, hammers, clippers, etc.

This will make him an invaluable force on our team. He is also one of the people who trains Taiyo so he should scale to his speed and strength. It feels unnecessary to post any more feats for him outside of these but if you want further elaboration on scaling or what Taiyo himself can do, I can oblige.

GUEST STAR: The Pompadour Toting Joestar, Josuke Higashikata

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A family of badass men with a penchant for justice, Josuke is the 4th Joestar in the Joestar family. Unlike the last three Joestars who went on grand adventures, around the world, Josuke's story is stationed in the small quiet town of Inaba. There are several people in this quiet town with mysterious avatars known as stands, a metaphysical manifestation of one's will. Josuke's Stand is Crazy Diamond.

To start off its stats are fairly solid. He should have no problems keeping up in this tourney since his stand is fast enough to catch bullets at close range.

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The damage output of Crazy Diamond is solid too

And he should scale to Jotaro's Star Platinum which was able to ravage a small portion of a building.

Now the main ability of Crazy Diamond is to fix and repair things and rearrange them.

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Obviously offensive usage of this ability is banned(the rearranging part) but the healing and repairing is fair game. This will be useful in supporting his teammates.

As for people who are familiar with Jojo, yes only stands can interact with other stands, even stand users cannot interact with them. They are made of spirtual/life energy, so as a result they cannot be physically interacted with under normal means.

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However intangibility is banned under the rules so that being said that means Stands will be treated as if they can be physically interacted with. However, this doesn't do anything regarding its natural invisibility, unless you have some special senses that can detect spirits or something of that variety, you will not be able to see Josuke's stand. Not even Kars from the same series will be able to see Josuke's attacks or what he is doing, although your team does have full knowledge

That being said, I will have to justify Josuke's durability a bit. Obviously CD can withstand its own punches and attacks from other stands, so that should tell you how much it can withstand. As a rule of thumb, whatever damage his stand takes Josuke also takes.

Josuke, although he cannot heal himself with his stand, he makes up for it by having a sturdy body. Like for example, him and CD take a punch from Red Hot Chilli Pepper that smashes them through metal crates and into a forklift.

....

Perks and Strategy

First lets take a look at the perks i got lined up.

Team Perks(2)

  1. Perfect Teamwork
  2. Full knowledge on Enemy

Character Perks(2)

  1. Teleporter(Josuke)
  2. MCU Vibranium Weapons(Shinzo)

Shinzo is the one who will benefit from having his weapons and tools amped by Vibranium materials. This is too good to pass up, Vibranium tech is solid. Its what makes up T'Challa's claws, and his own suit. His claws were good enough to scratch Cap's shield because of it.

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I hardly have to explain why that's so awesome since Cap's shield was able to block hits from Thor.

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Now imagine Shinzo's portable Garbage Can Tank, that he can hide himself in as opposed to using it as separate weapon, tanking everything the enemy team has to offer while firing off missiles, bullets, and blades that will be as sharp as Black Panther's claws.

Kyochiro is so deadly because of how the range and number of the wires he controls allows him to completely decimate large groups. Grabbing and slamming people in any direction he chooses with his wires. You will have to prove that Kyochiro cannot restrain you with his wires and keep you pinned by posting decent raw physical strength feats or the tools necessary to get out, or simply defend against them, otherwise you will be strung along like a puppet.

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Lets take a look at Chapter 6 for example. A very simply display of his prowess was when Taiyo was getting surrounded by guards, and Kyochiro swoops in and ties down everyone

So the objective of these two as a unit? Kyochiro slows down the opposition with his wires assuming they have solid piercing and slashing resistance to survive them in the first place. Shinzo follows up by blowing them to pieces with bullets and explosives while taking the lead as someone who soaks up all the damage via his defenses, and Shinzo is a solid shot.

If his defenses start to break down that is where our guest star Josuke comes in, he can fix and repair Shinzo's weapons.And he will be an on the spot healer, healing any wounds anyone has, and repairing weapons. The teleportation perk makes him even more useful.

Now, regarding this location, we have full knowledge on your team. The only person who really benefits from this setting is Kars because he can fly around, by Kyochiro's range and Shinzo's guns and marksmanship counters that. One of your guys will be invisible but they are only invisible to the human naked eye, not to our ears, and other senses. In chapter 38 of Mission: Yozakura Family, Taiyo had to deal with a spy(sosuke) who could erase his presence to the point of being invisible, this included his heartbeat, his breathing as well. He was still able to sense the general direction he was in an fired upon him

Something to keep in mind, is that even without using the technique Sosuke was almost impossible to detect in the underworld which allowed him to get away with a lot of shit since he lacked a presence.

All of the Yozakura family spies should be capable of this since they trained Taiyo to be a spy in the first place, even then, Shinzo's sensory abilities are generally solid too which makes sense since he was the one who taught Taiyo how to react instinctively and we already know his senses are good enough to detect weak points. But to give an additional idea, Shinzo can hear sniper fire or even silenced weapons, and similar to how Taiyo did above, can sense a human presence.

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So sensing you shouldn't be an issue and in a direct fight I'd favor my characters more based off what I know of then.

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tomtheawesome123

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#4  Edited By tomtheawesome123

Sing

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Speed

Is able to contend well with The Beast until the beast uses the Frog Style which is a special technique.

The Beast is able to catch this bullet at point blank

The bullet is from a a Webley Mk Vi

The bullet has a minimum speed of 180m/s (The actual source is from a paper called Revolvers of the British Services 1854-1954 - W.H.J. Chamberlain and A.W.F. Taylerson)

Now the bullet speed is only 180m/s , but you have to consider the fact that The Beast moves his hans at several times the distance that the bullet did in the same time frame.

I have ran this video through Adobe Premiere Pro and extracted the frames, and then used Microsoft paint to measure the pixels. And it turns out that The Beast moved his hands a horizontal distance of about 5.45x that of the bullet. This means The beast's movement speed is 5.45x of the bullet,

Applying that to 180m/s gives mach 2.83.

Note that I am ultra lowballing here, a lot of modern articles put the gun at 190m/s minimum in speed which raises the speed of The Beast to about mach 2.99

Sing reacted to the Beast's attacks (which would be his movement speed) which means he reacted to Mach 2.83 attacks at close quarter range.

This is impressive when you consider the nature of reacting to attacks.

If I dodged a bullet fired 1 meter away, that is twice as impressive as me dodging the same bullet from 2 meters away, and three times as impressive as me dodging it from 3 meters away etc.

A supersonic character can even dodge a hypersonic attack if the distance is high enough due to this. In fact, distance playing a factor is a reason why humans can easily perceive massively hypersonic meteorites before they hit the ground. Distance matters

And if you make an even more extreme case. A regular human can even react to a light speed attack if the distance is horrendously big. If someone fired a laser at you from the sun, you can easily do a lot of things before it reaches you, this is because it takes around 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach the Earth.

The reason I am emphasizing distance here, is because a lot of "supersonic" and "bullet timing" feats posted by a lot of users in CAVs show characters reacting to supersonic attacks from a couple of meters away. Although the bullet The beast reacted to is subsonic, since it was point blank and his hand moved several times faster than it. It puts him at very high supersonic. And puts Sing at incredible speeds too. Reacting to a mach 2.83 attack at close quarter range is very rare for supersonic characters.

I also want to emphasize the consistency of arguing Sing at this level of speed. Kung Fu Hustle is literally just one movie, meaning I don't have to post a lot of feats to be able to prove this isn't an outlier like in comics. There are also no antifeats which put Sing at below this level of speed.

I will give another piece of evidence in order to cover my bases.

This fight scene shows characters reacting to sound based attacks from a harp . The attacks are mach 1 but the distance the characters begin reacting to it make me put them at high subsonic. The harpists themsleves at the beginning physically contend with these characters which put them at the same speed too.

Both harpists then get manhandled by a sleeping mustache guy

Mustache guy and his wife who is equal to him then gets overpowered and blitzed by the beast

So the portrayal of the verse also does not contradict Sing's speed here.

DC , Durability and Strength

His main attack at the end of the movie is the Buddha Palm It comes out fast enough to interrupt the Beast's Attack and movement.

This should put him at the limits considering that this is the reference house for the limits of DC . This image is from ET himself.

Note that when Sing did that feat, the height of the damage was higher than that of the reference house, but don't worry it isn't above the limits since the house makes up for it in width. It kind of evens out because although the section of the apartment building he busts is higher than the house, the width of the house makes up for it.

Sing's durability is able to tank this

Now, as for pure strength. Sing obviously could hurt the beast with pure strength as shown in a video I posted already. The beast himself is able to tank crashing into multiple walls when he smashes into things with his frog technique without complaint which Sing also tanked. And the Beast himself also tanked the Buddha Palm

Sensing

Ultimate Kars

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Speed , Strength , Regen and Durability

The Ultimate Lifeform

Kars is the pinnacle of life. He has many unique abilities due to this.

He can turn his body or parts of it into that of any other lifeform.

When he fires Pirahnas at Joeseph, he can at a distance morph them into an octopus. Note that the octopus is strong enough to break through that plane

If you look at this image He also has other assortment of abilities too. He has his horn which can detect heat and air pressure. This means he basically has the sensing abilities of Wammu, Wammu can sense air pressure with his horn too and is an inferior being to Ultimate Kars. If you watch the Joeseph vs Wammu fight from the video and after you will see that Wammu does the entire rest of the fight while blind because he can use his airhorn sensing.

He has really good vision, comparable to a telescope. Now since the manga at that point is set in the 20th century, we go by telescopes during the 20th century. But if we ultra lowball then we can go by inferior telescopes from earlier points of history such as Isaac Newton's one that is a magnification of 35x . Now that means he can see with 35x more range than a normal human can.

But doing that would be stupid, since Ultimate Kars lived during World War 2 which is like the 1900's. Newton's telescope was 1600's. A more accurate lowball would be Hadley's telescope which was a 1700's telescope. Still a hilarious lowball but I want to be concrete.

John Nadler's telescope was 6 inches in aperture . Good rule of thumb is 20x per inch of aperture. This makes Nadler's telescope 120x.

Can also sense people through heat

With his arm blade he can emit light to blind people

Can suck the juices out of people through his blade

Being a pillarmen, he also has the basic pillar men abilities such as:

Being able todigest others with any part of his body, he can just absorb people into his body and digest them

(Note that ET banned the digestion, that being said the pulling people into his body could still be useful maybe so I will include it)

Can morph their body to fit through gaps

Another thing you might have noticed from the picture above laying out his abilities is that he has 400 IQ. This is actually not a joke and there are intelligence feats for pillarmen inferior to Kars.

Santana the stupidest Pillarmen can learn a new language in a short period of time.

Santana can understand a new piece of machinery like a gun enough to accurately disassemble it after just seeing it once

Wammu in combat can calculate the trajectory of this crossbow shot . Wammu is an inferior pillarmen.

Another display of Kars' intellect is shown in a previous scan I posted where he survives being vaped by Lava by creating a suit using the correct animal species.

He has access to Hamon. Originally Hamon is suppose to be like an anti undead energy source. But his Hamon is so powerful that it can even hurt those that aren't undead. Here it melts Joseph's skin like lava

Hamon can be conducted into objects to weaponize them.

Hamon can be channeled through objects such as metal and even spaghetti . This means it can channel through the weapons of your characters and then fry your team. Note that Kars can also enhance his weapons with Hamon the same way Joseph enhanced soft cooked spaghetti to pierce through glass like in the clip. So he would also be able to slice clean through Iron Man's armor with his light blade from what I believe from his feats.

Scar

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Speed and Reflexes

Scar vs Edward and Alphonse, . Able to scale to him

But how fast is Edward? He is able to react to minigun fire from a decent range.

Alphonse also has bullet reacting feats , and of course has beaten Edward in sparring as well.

So since Scar can react to both of them at once, and even blitz both at once he is sort of fast. Not really as fast as the other 2 on my team but decent with regards to the tourney.

Alchemy

So in FMA the magic system is called Alchemy, essentially speaking... FMA characters can reconstruct and deconstruct items. Scar is very special, Scar didn't actually learn Alchemy normally but instead had tatoos on him which allow him to deconstruct and reconstruct material without the training. He uses his right arm to deconstruct:

Alchemy has utility, by deconstructing the ground he can create a dust cloud.

Can deconstruct a mass of spikes and consequently creates a dust cloud.

Can do it on people . Deconstructs them , This is banned though

Has enough skill to move his deconstruct to a distance and attack from there.

He can use his other arm to reconstruct things.

Physical Strength and Durability

Initial Thoughts on the Opponent's Team

Initial Thoughts

Honestly, I have no issues with the speed of any of your team at all. I think everyone here can react to each other so speed isn't really a point of contention for me.

I will also comment that mostly speaking, our teams can hurt each other. Now that being said Josuke's Crazy Diamond would not be able to meaningfully damage Sing or Kars. Star Platinum knocked Kakyoin through 3 floors. So thats like the equivalent of knocking someone through 3 walls. Sing has tanked an attack by the beast that knocked him through more walls, and he was fine after it, only having superficial damage. And of course, Kars has the plane feat. Therefore mostly speaking Josuke really isn't going to hurt those characters, and since your team has full knowledge I doubt they will try to have Josuke engage with my team and instead have him as a healer.

Now as for a defense against Yozakura's strings, the most powerful attack you shown was Giant Spider which was able to pierce that bridge. And Kars does in fact have a piercing durability feat:

1) The context here is that an explosion happened on the ground, the explosion lifted the ground up and launched rocky debris on Kars from the ground upwards.

2) Kars gets hit by a hand which was launched upwards by an explosion, the fingers were able to pierce him but only to a superficial extent, in the same scans you can see pointy and sharp rocks launching at Kars

3) He gets hit

4) Again, he only gets pierced to a superficial level. The rocks didn't go through him they sort of just dug itself a bit in his skin. He gets launched upwards

5-6) He actually gets launched into space due to this

Now, this feat is incredible, he was hit by a piercing attack and resisted getting pierced meaningfully. The kinetic energy behind these sharp rocks (And the hand) was enough that when they hit him, it sent him to space. Now granted they were launched upwards initially by the volcano on the rock they were standing on but it wasn't much as seen in the 1st scan.

Now we can actually calculate the kinetic energy transferred to Kars by the rocks. The way we do this is by calculating the kinetic energy of Kars. The rocks when they crashed into Kars transferred kinetic energy to him.

. Kinetic energy is 1/2 * mv^2 , we actually know what v is since we know from the story that Kars attained escape velocity, a velocity high enough that he escaped Earth's gravity.

This velocity is 11.2km/sec or mach 32.65 . So when Kars was hit by the rocks he gained 31.65 mach in speed minimum.

The reason I am decreasing Mach 32.65 to 31.65 is because earlier on in Scan 1 it is shown that Kars actually was already gaining upward speed due to the giant rock he was standing on with joseph being blown up. But we know the speed he was initially travelling upwards was far less than Mach 1, because if it was anywhere near Mach 1 at all Joseph would have been mortally wounded by just the land mass moving into him from the ground upwards. Joseph's durability aint that great as he has suffered grieve wounds from inferior things.

Meaning, the velocity he gained by getting hit by the rocks and the hand was 31.65 at least.

I will then lowball Kars' mass and assume he is 97kg, this is a lowball because Joseph who is a puny human to him is 97kg (Chapter 73), Kars being bulkier should honestly be heavier give or take.

this results in more than 5.5 billion joules which is 5.5 gigajoules. but that is not accurate. When judging piercing durability I have to look at the kinetic energy of one projectile, since the piercing durability of Kars' body depends on how much he can tank one of these attacks on a spot on his body. Its not like all the rocks hit the same spot. Kars was hit by 9 rocks and 1 hand. Meaning there are 10 projectiles. Meaning each of these projectiles had 0.55 gigajoules of kinetic energy.

So you have Kars tanking 0.55 gigajoules in piercing attacks. Meaning, if you had something like the sharp rock in the scan which can puncture or cut Kars, and you have 0.55 gigajoules of energy behind it, Kars gets hurt, but it aint that bad.

So how much is 0.55 gigajoules of energy? Well, it is 550 megajoules of energy.

0.19kg of dynamite yields 1 megajoule of energy.

2kg of dynamite (Which translates to roughly 10 megajoules) is able to obliterate this 1 cubic meter volume of concrete (dimensions were 1m x 1m x 1m).

And the sharp rocks Kars tanked had 55x this level of energy behind it. And it was concentrated into a piercing attack

Now the Kyoshiro scan is a cutting scan. In cutting scans due to the nature of them the impressiveness of a cutting feat depends on the material, and the thickness at which you cut.

To a lot of uninitiated readers. It might seem like Kyoshiro's feat might make him able to cut Kars meaningfully, readers might get this due to the destruction that it caused. The volume of the bridge portion that was cut off looks big and so to the uninitiated it seems impressiveness enough to beat Kars.

But cutting feats logically have to be treated differently than other conventional forms of attack. Let me give you an example, Kyoshiro sliced 2 parts of the bridge, the bridge portion between the 2 cuts then fell down and collapsed.

If Kyoshiro decided to do everything the same, except that he placed the two cuts further apart, lets say 5 times the distance. There would be a bigger level of destruction, in fact the bridge portion that is cut off would have 5 times more volume. But this does not mean that the feat is 5 times more impressive, It would be kind of weird if it took 5 times more energy and power to cut through the same bridge, just because you placed the location of the two cuts 5 times further apart.

This is why to measure cutting scans. You measure by the thickness of the material you are cutting.

If we assume Kyoshiro cut the bridge horizontally (Which is more impressive cutting wise than vertically) he was able to cut through 10-ish meters of concrete give or take, and way way less than that in terms of steel since it wasn't like big block of steel but just some beams.

If we ultra lowball Kars' cutting feat, each of the rocks he tanked would have the cutting power to go through 55 meters of concrete. This is an ultra lowball because the 2kg dynamite video I posted obliterated the concrete completely, This was 10 megajoules of energy being spread out in all directions, not concentrated into a pointy corner of a rock. There is difference between having the energy to cut concrete block in half, and obliterating it into hundreds of pieces.

Kars tanked something 55x stronger than that. And yeah he was pierced but it was not really substantial damage, and he could easily regen from something like that anyways.

Another thing I want to talk about is Shinzo's lightning gun. This gun requires charging time in order to fire which makes it very impractical. This is why the enemy in the scan says "it is full of flaws I can easily avoid it", now he ends up getting hit by it but it is due to other characters preventing him from doing so. Furthermore I do not see how it is a type of attack that Kars wouldn't be able to tank and regen from, he did survive getting vaped by magma for a bit of time.

Plan and Prep Counters

Shinzo is the one who will benefit from having his weapons and tools amped by Vibranium materials. This is too good to pass up, Vibranium tech is solid. Its what makes up T'Challa's claws, and his own suit. His claws were good enough to scratch Cap's shield because of it.

I hardly have to explain why that's so awesome since Cap's shield was able to block hits from Thor.

I actually want to talk about MCU vibranium here. The vibranium is one of the cases where the power of an attack is actually not what it seems at first glance.

So yes, you are correct that T'Challa's can scratch the shield, when Thor couldn't. Therefore Vibranium > that strike from Thor. Since MCU Vibranium is supposed to reflect kinetic energy when struck by an attack IIRC Thor's attack was reflected, and it tipped over all those trees. Making MCU claws higher than that in a way. I actually agree with this.

But at the same time, Black Panther could not pierce entirely through this metal bar. . He managed to pierce into it, but not entirely through.

The shield which itself is Vibranium is unable to pierce through this metal door. It pierced into it, but not through.

It was also able to dig itself into Bucky's titanium arm here, but not go entirely through.

And there are similar examples such as the time Captain America's shield failed to go entirely through an ultronbot.

So what is actually going on here? on one hand, you have something which goes above tipping over several trees, and then you have a bunch of showings which show power that is below even wall level.

They seem contradictory, but it actually isn't. It actually is not contradictory at all. Both are true, vibranium weapons are both strong enough to scratch a shield when Thor couldn't, and also cannot pierce entirely through those things I showed in the 3 scans above.

One may think that the MCU Thor was a cherrypicked outlier argument, but it really isn't. It is just often misinterpreted.

This may seem weird but let me explain, there is one thing in common with the 4 scans above. All scans show the weapon piercing into a material, but not actually going entirely through.

The reasoning is this, Vibranium as a material itself harder and tougher than something like steel. That is why it was able to dig itself into Cap's shield a little bit and scratch the thing.

But the actual force and kinetic energy behind the weapons are not always on the same level. The reason why this is important is that it is one thing to cut into a material, but after you dig into it, there is frictional force as the sides of the material you are cutting into dissipate the kinetic energy of the weapon. What determines a weapons' ability to pierce through (not just into, but through) an object is 2 things.

1. The strength and thickness of the target

2. The kinetic energy behind the weapon.

These variables are important, this is why if you give a normal person a steel sword, they won't be able to cut through a tree or even bamboo even though steel is stronger than both those things. The steel sword would probs cut into both, but it won't get that far because of the friction of the tree and the bamboo slowing down the kinetic energy and momentum of the weapon. A trained samurai could cut through bamboo though whilst some random weeb probably can't.

This is also why sandbags are able to stop bullets, its because the sand slows it down on the inside. The bullet easily pierces into the actual bag like its fodder. But when it goes into the sand the energy dissipation happens.

This is why Black Panther's claws can scratch the shield, but cannot go entirely through the metal bar Bucky used to block, even though Vibranium Shield > That construction Metal. As the claws went down through the metal the frictional force dissipated its kinetic energy and momentum.

The funny thing is this. Both Kinetic energy and momentum depend on mass and velocity. Having vibraniums weapons therefore does not actually increase the kinetic energy or momentum.

Meaning, that yes. The vibranium bullets can enter Kars' skin whilst regular bullets can't. Even though they would have the same kinetic energy. But once they enter the skin Kars' body which in of itself is a durable material would dissipate the energy real quick.

Now imagine Shinzo's portable Garbage Can Tank, that he can hide himself in as opposed to using it as separate weapon, tanking everything the enemy team has to offer ...

I mean Shinzo is still in the garbage can. If the Buddha Palm hits the can it will be launched back and Shinzo inside would still suffer the impact as the vibranium can crashes into him after being launched by the Buddha Palm's energy. Also, Kars with his Hamon can conduct through the metal and fry Shinzo, and Shinzo would need the heat resistance feats to avoid being vaped from the inside as the hamon conducts into him. Kars could even conduct hamon into projectiles and get Shinzo that way so he doesn't have to get close if he doesn't want to.

while firing off missiles, bullets, and blades that will be as sharp as Black Panther's claws.

Honestly, even if we take the Thor feat at face value Kars' piercing durability feat against the sharp rocks which sent him to space scale above it. But remember, those weapons even if they can pierce Kars aren't going to go entirely through, they are now made out of vibranium, but the actual kinetic energy behind them is still the same. Meaning they get slowed down by the friction of Kars' durable body as they enter his skin if they pierce. Vibranium gets you into the flesh, but it doesn't mean you can pierce substantially far to cause non negligible damage. Even if you could, Kars regens.

And Sing's Buddha palm would logically deflect all the weapons, in the best case they just get blocked but in the realistic case some of it is going back at ya.

Scar actually has a defense against the weapons too, he can use his alchemy to block it. The reason he is even able to do this is due to my explanation about vibranium, the vibranium itself allows the weapons to pierce into the earth walls Scar can make to defend. However they still maintain the same kinetic energy and will slow down due to the frictional force of actually entering the earth. So the either get blocked outright, or the bullets slow down enough that Scar takes superficial or no damage at all. Honestly, it is very very highly likely that the get blocked outright, just look at Black Panther's claws getting blocked by a couple of centimeters of a metal bar.

Kyochiro is so deadly because of how the range and number of the wires he controls allows him to completely decimate large groups. Grabbing and slamming people in any direction he chooses with his wires. You will have to prove that Kyochiro cannot restrain you with his wires and keep you pinned by posting decent raw physical strength feats or the tools necessary to get out, or simply defend against them, otherwise you will be strung along like a puppet.

Scar deconstructs it, Kars can conduct Hamon through the string which them proceeds to fry Kyochiro, Kars can through a sort of pseudo intangibility (Not actually intangibility) sort of move though the wires by letting them into his body and then out the other end. Sort of like how Santana let a human into his body but instead of digesting Kars lets it out the other end. In general though, Kars teleports out anyways.

Sing palms it before it reaches him. And also he scales to the Beast who actually tanked the Buddha Palm albeit with damage. Kyochiro's strength feat for his wires was you showing him suspend an 8 wheeler truck with dozens of wires.

So with dozens of wires, you have truck level. So if we assume Sing lets Kyochiro get that many wires in, something I am not willing to believe he still breaks out.

Now the reason I don't believe Kyochiro can get that many wires in is because as I have stated before our characters are relatively equal in speed essentially speaking. I can imagine that if we don't allow Sing to use Buddha Palm and just go by stats. Kyo would be able to snag him with 1-5 wires give or take since characters with generally equal speed generally trade blows modestly like that.

So the objective of these two as a unit? Kyochiro slows down the opposition with his wires assuming they have solid piercing and slashing resistance to survive them in the first place.

I will say that Kyo's bridge cutting feat was done when he combined multiple wires together. I presume you would be unable to combine wires when you are using them to slow down my team by placing them in multiple directions and locations.

Kars can outright tank the wires even when they are compressed into giant spider whip form. Scar would be able to just tank the normal wires due to wounded Bradley scaling. He would get slashed off by the Giant Spider admittedly. But the deconstruction is an excellent defense against the weapon

But all that being said, Kars can purposely touch the wires and conduct Hamon and fry Kyo unless you have feats against that. Remember, Kars' Hamon can melt joseph's flesh. And he like all other hamon users can conduct it through things.

And of course, the Buddha Palm is the ultimate defense.

This scan here shows Kyo's strings being launched and it gets negged by a shockwave massively inferior to Sing's Palm. (Chapter 21)

Shinzo follows up by blowing them to pieces with bullets and explosives while taking the lead as someone who soaks up all the damage via his defenses, and Shinzo is a solid shot.

I mean the explosives would get tanked by every character on my team. I am going to assume you are referring to RPG's and stuff which he has in his armory? Or perhaps the garbage can weapons he used in your first Shinzo scans? Either way everyone on the team just tanks that.

Bullets get reacted to by my entire team and get reflected back at you by buddha palm. I have also said some other stuff about the vibranium bullets already above.

I also want to say that Shinzo's accuracy really isn't important. If the bullets are too slow (Which they are) it doesn't matter if you have aim bot or not, since our characters are fast enough to react to bullets after they are fired anyways.

If his defenses start to break down that is where our guest star Josuke comes in, he can fix and repair Shinzo's weapons. And he will be an on the spot healer, healing any wounds anyone has, and repairing weapons. The teleportation perk makes him even more useful.

Clever, but there is one technicality I want to point out about Josuke. Every speed and reaction feat you showed for Josuke is actually Crazy Diamond's. It is CD automatically reacting for him the same way Star Platinum caught the bullet for Jotaro in jail. The reason this technicality is important is because Josuke is the one who has the teleporter, not Crazy Diamond.

What this means, is that the teleportation perk has a long delay since you have provided no reflex feats for Josuke himself. I believe all of Josuke's speed feats are actually Crazy Diamond doing the reacting or moving him. If my assumption is correct, the teleportation won't be all that useful. So when the other characters are fighting, Josuke himself reacts at slower speed to initiate teleportation.

An implication of this would be that since Josuke's movement speed is slow compared to everyone else here (Needed to use motorcycle against Highway Star), it will be nearly impossible, if not impossible to keep up with everyone and get into range to Crazy Diamond heal things. And since the teleportation would logically be too slow due to Josuke's non-stand reflexes. Overall the logistics of the healing is poor unless JJBA stand users have the same reflexes as their stands.

Now, regarding this location, we have full knowledge on your team. The only person who really benefits from this setting is Kars because he can fly around, by Kyochiro's range and Shinzo's guns and marksmanship counters that.

I mean Kars can react to machine gun fire even at close range in multiple angles from multiple sources so I don't see how he can't avoid this. if Kyo and Shinzo attacks him with a ranged weapon he just teleports to avoid it. So if a bullet was heading for his forehead Kars would teleport 50cm to the left to avoid it for example.

I guess you can argue Kyochiro has a chance of clipping him with a wire from time to time if we scale his wires to his own speed (I am steelmanning here, you didn't actually provide a speed for the wires but honestly I can see why if you are scaling his wires to his speed). But as I have already argued and calculated the piercing isn't enough to outdo the sharp rocks which had enough kinetic energy to send Kars to space. Not nearly enough. So if Kars gets hit by the wires he teleports out of them and tanks them and regens.

But of course, if Kyo has no heat resistants feats Kars having full knowledge knows this and hamons him through his own wires.

And of course, this is assuming that both these characters can even sense invisible Kars at a respectable range.

One of your guys will be invisible but they are only invisible to the human naked eye, not to our ears, and other senses. In chapter 38 of Mission: Yozakura Family, Taiyo had to deal with a spy(sosuke) who could erase his presence to the point of being invisible, this included his heartbeat, his breathing as well. He was still able to sense the general direction he was in an fired upon him

...(There were 4 more scans but I didn't want to clog) Something to keep in mind, is that even without using the technique Sosuke was almost impossible to detect in the underworld which allowed him to get away with a lot of shit since he lacked a presence.

I will agree that the sense displayed here would be able to detect the invisible Kars. The issue though is that the range displayed is quite lackluster. Only a couple of meters for the Taiyo scan for example. There is nothing wrong with it if my team decided to fight in your team's comfort zone. But they won't.

Unless you provide a feat with more range, it is only reasonable to assume that the range is a couple of meters like in the Taiyo scan. This is because in general, the burden of proof is on you to provide proof for the max range of your senses if you want to argue them higher than what is shown and posted. But also, in chapter 1 the manga displays a range limit of this "presence sense"

1. Kyo (Intent to kill Taiyo) can't sense him and has to ask where he is

2. We see Taiyo hiding somewhere not very far away

3. We see the exact distance

Perks and General Strategies

Since the team has full knowledge and Perfect team work. My characters will work together optimally and will devise a strategy that is optimal against your team.

Although the OP states that Scar has Invis and Teleportation. I have changed the person who has the perks from Round 1 but ET forgot to change it. Deathhero my opponent has allowed this change kindly.

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Due to my team having full knowledge of yours. They will in character act differently, and do a different plan depending on your team's capabilities. If you for example withheld feats, and a new power is shown that was never mentioned before. Logically speaking my team would know of this from the beginning and I might have to make changes to my battle plan to accommodate how my characters will act in this case.

Now I will first go over Sing's Buddha Palm. The Buddha Palm has impressive AOE and the force it packs honestly should be able to repel every single attack you make, some of the attacks might even rebound on your own team and in addition to that the actual palm will be sent your team's way and they will have to defend against it in someway. This is something your team has shown no counter against directly. At the very least, even if I generously assume it is not a one hit kill move. It should at the very very very minimum be a shield against your team's projectiles and weapons.

I also want to say that Kars has sight equivalent to that of a space telescope, meaning that since we start far away in the battlefield. It is more likely than not that my team spots yours earlier than the other way around.

Hamon can be conducted to projectiles one fires, and Kars' hamon is superior to Joseph's here. So Kars' Armadillo shells which he fired at the plane can be amped.

These amplify the projectiles so they become generally stronger. But it also comes with 2 bonuses. The first is that Kars' Hamon can melt flesh so projectiles amp with it can do so on contact. But also in general Hamon is like fictional spirit electricity that can conduct other things as well. So for example if Kyo blocks these with a wire the hamon can conduct through the wire towards Kyo himself and damage him.

But Kars in general can tank everything your team throws at him with only relatively superficial wounds, the regen he has makes things worse.

Now you mention Crazy Diamond being invisible, however due to it being tangible and everything. Kars can sense it due to his airhorn which gives him Wammu's sensing feats. Meaning he gets Wammu's ability to fight while blind so he can sense invisible things like CD. Granted, this power has limited range yes. But for Crazy Diamond it doesn't really matter. Crazy Diamond has to be a certain distance from Josuke, that is how stands generally work. If you are far away you can find CD's general location by finding Josuke. If Kars is up close where precise location actually matters, then his air horn senses CD. Sing can sense CD at this range too, and although Scar can't sense. Knowing where Josuke is gives him some decent information.

Note, that Josuke and Crazy Diamond cannot sense Kars or anything invisible for that matter. Just no feats.

What this means, is that you essentially have to have the other 2 members of your team defend Josuke against Kars which is fair but this can lead to logistical problems which I will get into. Give or take I believe our team is essentially equal in speed and reflexes.

What this means is that if Kars moves his arm to slash something and the arm moves one meter, everyone on your team would in the same time frame also move 1 meter give or take. Your characters really can't be substantially faster than Kars due to the tourney caps.

The way this applies in the battle is this, if hypothetically speaking Josuke is 5 meters away from your team. What would happen is that Kars will spot your team first due to having the superior range in eye sight and senses. He will for sure having the space telescope eyesight be able to spot your team from kilometers away whilst your team can't sense him since your invisibility sensing only has feats for a couple of meters away.

Then he can teleport right next josuke and stab him in the brain with his arm blade. Kars only has to move his arm a couple of centimeters to get a blade lodged deep enough into Josuke's skull to kill him and Josuke and CD can't see Kars so that's that. You can't even guess that he is behind you or something cause he can be to the right, to the left, or a specific angle like 7 o clock or 8 o clock or above. You also don't know when he is gonna teleport.

On the other hand, the 2 Yozakura's are 5 meters away and won't have the time to save Josuke. Kyo for example won't have the time to use his wires to block. And even then its unlikely his wires can block Kars' arm blade which if needed can be channeled with Hamon. The wires would have to move 5 meters, and Kars only has to move a couple of centimeters.

What this means is that strategically speaking, Josuke pretty much at all times has to be within less than a meter at most of the Yozakura's. Because if he isn't, the distance is gonna be likely too far for the other 2 to defend him against a teleport brain stab by Kars which only takes a couple centimeters of movement.

Now of course, maybe Kyoshiro's wires move at mach 100 or something. But that would be something for you to prove. You didn't provide any speed feats for the wires in your post. So I assumed the default which is that they scale to his actual speed which wouldn't be fast enough to cover a distance of even 1 meter by the time Kars moves his arm a couple of centimeters to kill Josuke. And even then there is a delay, Kyo isn't gonna react the instant Kars teleports in, there will have to be some time processing where Kars is, whether he is behind josuke, to his left, to his right or 46 degrees south east of josuke etc etc.

This goes for every member of your team as well. Even if Yozakura bros can sense Kars. Kars teleporting a couple of centimeters away from them and then only having to move his arm a couple of centimeters to kill is something that they really shouldn't be able to react to. (Is he on my right? my left? behind? 7 o clock? 8 o clock? What about above?). Teleporting somewhere next to them should still surprise them even with full knowledge.

If Shinso's in the garbage can the hamon is too strong and can one shot him. He doesn't even have to kill by the way. He can just teleport in and then grab onto one of the characters then teleport out. Isolating them as well. ET allowed this for the teleporter

No Caption Provided

Overall I feel that Kars being able to freely teleport makes things very easy for my team in terms of movement and everything. His superior range in sensing means he can surprise your team and he can gain information on their current movements before they can even see him.

There is many things Kars can do with the versatile teleportation too. For example, lets say that hypothetically speaking Shinzo is the type of person to not want to shoot Kyoshiro since he is family, Kars can choose to teleport right next to Kyo, at a location that makes Kyo, Kars and Shinso colinear to each other. Meaning they fit in a straight line, meaning Kyo is between them, NS Kyo is directly in front of Kars in Shinso's perspective. Meaning if Shinso wants to retaliate he would have to shoot through Kyo or move to an angle where his bullets can hit Kars without going through Kyo first .

So if you can't prove that Shinso is willing to shoot through his family, Kars can do this and hamon one shot or blade one shot or point blank shell one shot or a combination of all 3 and Shinso effectively in character won't do anything, and Josuke can't see. Or he can grab him and teleport somewhere else to 1v1 him. You might think Kyo can 1v1 Kars (something i don't believe) but I am just saying this is just one of his options.

I doubt you actually can prove Shinso's willing to kill family, because one of the narrative themes and plot points is that the MC of the manga marries a Yozakura to avoid death. You can't kill family

The actual battleplan

So essentially Kars is going to fly up and be a look out directly above the other 2 team members. The team as a unit will move around the battlefield to try to locate yours.

I am basically certain that Kars with his telescope vision sees your team kilometers away. Meaning my team can see yours way before you can see mine. Yes I understand the Yozakura's have some superficial stealth. But it is not something like true invisibility. They can tread silently and I guess hide behind buildings and what not (Which my other 2 members can too) but I don't think this in any way is able to beat Kars' space telescope vision which should be able to see kilometers away. Even if the stealth is not superficial, Josuke himself doesn't have stealth. Unless you are gonna split off Josuke (Something you honestly shouldn't do) , he doesn't have stealth so Kars can locate your team.

Then when Kars locates your team he will notify the other members of my team about your movements and other necessary information. And they head there. There could be some wiggling and maneuvering here and there as my team adjusts to your team's movements which might change, but eventually my team should be able to get within a couple of hundred meters or so from your team.

Kars with his invisibility will then just fly up, probably a hundred or so meters into the air and then harass your team. He will fire his armadillo shells at your team and he can amp them with Hamon. They are invisible projectiles which could intercept machine gun fire from a plane.

Now ordinarily, every member of your team can react to these projectiles I think. But the special thing here is that these shells come from Kars' body so they are invis as well. Now Yozakura's can sense the presence of humans, but if Kars is just firing the feather shell, would you be able to sense them?

You might try to argue that the Yozakura's can hear them. But Mach 2 projectiles are faster than sound which is mach 1, so its not like you can hear the shells before they hit you. You can hear them after they hit you but it is useless. Shinzo did say that he can hear snipers and silencers, but that doesn't prove he can hear sniper fire before the bullet hits him, it just proves he can hear a sniper and nothing more. It is scientifically impossible for anybody on your team to hear these shells before they hit them.

At a distance of around 100 meters, nobody on your team has feats posted that can detect invisible Kars at this range. If new feats come that show the human sensing is 100 meters, logically Kars would know this from the beginning and fly higher.

So at this distance, (Which should be around 100 meters or more depending on the range of Yozakura sensing) Kars can dodge every bullet, explosive and wire thrown his way by teleporting to dodge them. This is assuming Yozakura's can even sense Kars (Which they won't be able to, since Kars will just fly higher since he has full knowledge of the range of sensing, which means he will always fly far enough away from your team such that your team can't sense him.). This also assumes Kyo's wires can reach that far.

However, Kars with his telescope vision probs will still be able to sense and see your team. And I don't think your team has an answer for the feather shells packed with hamon.

So anyway, Kars sees Josuke and shoots him by spamming his shells, Hamon is added if need be. Josuke can't heal himself. And he also can't heal people who are dead. So Josuke can pretty much get one shotted here by the hamon shells. Even without the hamon the shells could go through the metal of the plane as I have shown in my kars section. Now just like you with Kyoshiro, I want to ask you to show me piercing/slashing resistance feats for human Josuke and Crazy Diamond (Which can be hurt here). Would they be able to tank this level of piercing when amped by Hamon which an inferior user like Caesar used to amp soft and cooked spaghetti to be able to pierce glass? Would they then be able to tank the heat from the hamon? Also, would they then be able to tank the hamon conducting into them and messing things up? This goes for Yozakura's too. Can they tank it? Can they tank it even without Hamon?

And I will be honest, I have doubts the Yozakura's have many piercing feats. I get the impression the verse is one where bullets are relevant and can hurt characters. If so these shells are >>> Bullets. Of course this is just an assumption from someone who has never read it. So yeah you can enlighten me. I will say that it is interesting if Kyo and Shinzo were immune to this level of piercing. Because Kyo took his time and effort to destroy and dodge some of the traps in the house which included regular plain old machine guns. Was that just plot?

So yeah, Kars just spams the hamon amped shells and you will have to prove the team can deal with them. He is at a safe distance from all your attacks and sensing. So this is like 100% safe for him.

If this doesn't do, the rest of the team comes in either by Kars teleporting back to them then teleporting them to your team or simply running. Scar can shield and defend from your weapons (Except Giant Spider maybe). Sing can Buddha Palm which is a technique which frankly oneshots your team according to their current showings. It is AOE so it is difficult to dodge. I think the combination of my team's abilities and statistics are far too strong.

If at any moment, any member of your team is distracted with something such as dodging, blocking, or shooting at someone, or preoccupied in any way. Kars can abuse his teleportation and teleport somewhere not in front of them and next to them and then one shot with hamon blade or just normal blade. The same goes for if any member of your team is more than a meter or (several just to be safe?) away from the others, especially Josuke.

So if we ignore the cheese Kars Hamon shell spam at a distance and go by direct confrontation. I think I still have it in the bag with my team.

Scar can defend with alchemy against every attack on your team except maybe Giant Spider. Kars in general should be fine and regen from anything your team can throw at him. Sing has issues against sharp things but the Buddha Palm is the ultimate defense and offense.

So with the way things look, I am not going to argue that my entire team negs everything your team has. You can still hurt my team as long as Kyo uses Giant Spider, and he does it in a way that Scar can't intercept and deconstruct it. The issue I have is that most of the bullets Shinzo would use in this match are bullet speed, which is something street levelers are supposed to be able to consistently react to and defend against. Yes, they are vibranium weapons, but I have already posted my counters to MCU vibranium in general, and even if we take it as a godly holy adamantium which pierces through everything it hits. The Buddha Palm still repels them since resistance towards being pushed back by air pressure is more to do with the weight of the bullet.

The Buddha Palm itself is something your team really has no defense against from what you have shown. It would oneshot your entire team at once including Josuke so that you can't even heal. Even the garbage can Shinso can gets hurt while in it due to the sheer force transfer as the vibranium gets pushed and slams into him. Potentially crushing him. Even if not, Josuke and Kyo would be dead. And then Kars comes in and hamon or Scar deconstructs.

Another thing you won't really be able to defend against is Kars' Hamon attacks, or honestly even his non hamon attacks. And his teleportation which allows him to disengage from any fight, dodge any restraint or attack. Teleport preoccupied and distracted opponents somewhere else, or teleports next to them and oneshots with hamon.

Even Scar is a problem here as he can deconstruct your weapons as a defense and also set up shields and attack with alchemy as well.

His alchemy is a little bit tricky to actually deal with, the constructs come very fast, substantially faster than minigun bullets (Tags Wounded Bradley who is equal in speed to Scar who even in BoS blitzed 2 characters who can react to minigun fire). They can pierce (Like against Bradley) and serve as defense as well as offense at the same time. He may not have the one shot kill power of Sing or Kars but he is still useful.

Conclusion

I think our teams are essentially equal in speed, they are close enough that I don't think I want to argue anyone having a speed advantage that is all that impactful.

That being said, my team with the Buddha Palm and the Hamon projectiles boasts impressive one shot kill power that is both difficult to avoid due to AOE and is at the tourney cap. Kars boasts impressive durability all around and can handily tank everything you have shown. Furthermore his invisibility makes sensing him more difficult than if he was visible. The human sensing you showed had limited range, and Kars can exploit this by shooting invisible shells from a distance which are too fast to hear, and do not qualify as a living organism presence or a human presence.

The very first step to even pose a challenge at all against my team is to defeat the invisible feather shell spam from Kars. You have to detect it to be able to defend against it at all. Even if you could detect it Kars can strengthen it with Hamon. Hamon projectiles would be way too strong and none of your team would be able to defend against it. Kyo's strings get conducted (And I doubt his strings could even like individually block a hamon shell since your feats for it are too low level. I guess he can combine his strings into giant spider but then that means he has less strings and I don't think he can block a barrage of shell spam with so few strings and like I said conduction happens anyway) , CD and Josuke can't sense it anyways, and even if they could the Hamon will hurt CD and hence via Stand rules the damage reflects to Josuke and Josuke can't heal himself. So even if it doesn't one shot (It honestly should) it would still kill Josuke with in successive and additional shots. And I have made my argument against MCU vibranium as well. Even if we take the Thor scaling at face value, (Something I think is wrong, I think the discussion is more nuanced than that) I still think hamon amped shells punch above it.

Even if Hamon amped shells don't punch above it, defending against the shell spam with Shinso's bullets is a task that will end in inevitable failure. You have switched out your infinite ammo perk for teleporter for Josuke. Meaning very quickly Shinso will have to reload. This reload puts a slight gap in your bullet defenses allowing the shells to come through and one shot or injure. Kars can pretty much keep this up continuously so even if Josuke gets even damaged a little bit by a hamon shell spam it will all eventually lead to death since Kars produces these shells from his body so its not limited ammunition.

Even if I assume Shinso's guns are special anime guns without reload, since Shinso himself has a limited supply of guns. Eventually he will run out of bullets (Chapter 10)in general and the Hamon shells go through.

And even after you show you can effectively deal with this my team in direct combat is a force to be reckoned with. The Buddha Palm has more destructive power than anything your team has, and can one shot your entire team KO. It is AOE, reasonably fast and can repel/slow down but mostly repel all your attacks as well. So it is both amazing defense and offense. And Sing can do it multiple times.

I think a very short conclusion would be that my team has the statistic to contend with your statistics, they have the power level and damage capacity to even surpass yours, and the versatility granted by Kars' teleportation gives my team many avenues and options for victory.

All in all, best of luck for this debate. I wanted to get a lot of my thoughts on the matchup in my first post.

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@deathhero61 Finally my post is done, took a couple of minutes to edit since Comic Vine was bugging the hell out.

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@emperorthanos-: Remember I asked for an extension. It will be up this week.

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This is Death's 2nd post, I am posting it for him because of the CSRF error

General Counters

Honestly, I have no issues with the speed of any of your team at all. I think everyone here can react to each other so speed isn't really a point of contention for me.

I will also comment that mostly speaking, our teams can hurt each other. Now that being said Josuke's Crazy Diamond would not be able to meaningfully damage Sing or Kars. Star Platinum knocked Kakyoin through 3 floors. So thats like the equivalent of knocking someone through 3 walls. Sing has tanked an attack by the beast that knocked him through more walls, and he was fine after it, only having superficial damage. And of course, Kars has the plane feat. Therefore mostly speaking Josuke really isn't going to hurt those characters, and since your team has full knowledge I doubt they will try to have Josuke engage with my team and instead have him as a healer.

Well honestly, I think my characters benefit from more upscaling, but overall I agree. Scar seemingly is the slowest party here though seemingly having the least amount of scaling and feats to benefit from.

Actually not really, the floors were busted up as a side effect of SP's punch. We see Kakyoin's stand go up one floor but we don't see it go all the way, and we see the windows busted up as well. The anime paints a similar picture as well and we see shockwaves spread throughout the building and smash the windows This isn't Star Platinum's only feat, like he also has a feat of busting up High Priestress, massive teeth that were stated to be as hard as diamond while HP was underwater meaning it would be much more difficult to bust through. That should be more than enough to deal damage, and that is definitely taking out Scar easily.

1) The context here is that an explosion happened on the ground, the explosion lifted the ground up and launched rocky debris on Kars from the ground upwards.

2) Kars gets hit by a hand which was launched upwards by an explosion, the fingers were able to pierce him but only to a superficial extent, in the same scans you can see pointy and sharp rocks launching at Kars

3) He gets hit

4) Again, he only gets pierced to a superficial level. The rocks didn't go through him they sort of just dug itself a bit in his skin. He gets launched upwards

5-6) He actually gets launched into space due to this

I'm not really sure this is as impressive as you say it is, nor does it match Kyochiro's strings as far as piercing goes. I will address your second and 4th points.

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Lets play anatomy for a split second. Take a look at each part of his body, his deltoid/shoulder, his abdomen and his leg. Look at the full length of each of his body parts, those rocks are piercing almost the full length of his body. Look at his freaking chest, that's not just "a little"

It doesn't help that in later scans we still see him bleeding, and we no longer see the rocks implying that they fully pierce through. And Araki tends to draw characters like that when projectiles full pierce their bodies. Or when characters have a bunch of entry and exit wounds We don't even get a chance to see the exit wounds for Kars since we only see his front side the entire time until we see him in space, and his wounds are likely regenerated by then.

Just to further supplement this, lets look at the plane feat you showed earlier. He gets cleanly pierced by the plane's iron plates despite the previously hyped up feat of him getting sent into space. I don't think I have to explain the difference in the level of force between a volcano and a plane. You broke that down for me in rigorous detail, showing that you really know when to be rigorous.

Kars even gets pierced by Stroheim's metal gauntlet,(getting pierced by a hand twice in the same fight, one a human hand and the other a metal hand and given its launching mechanisms and where Stroheim was positioned shouldn't be greater than those volcanic rocks you calculated. And i highly doubt you're going to stretch by saying "Germany's Technology is the best" or some crap Stroheim usually says. So we have a genuine contradiction here.

I'm not sure if you had a specific placement for it or not, but the fact that a plane with some iron plates managed to pierce Kars body and pin him, forcing him to manipulate his body to remove them, tells me a couple things

1) That arguing that the rocks fully pierced him in the volcano feat(which explains why we didn't see them in the page following when he got punctured) isn't weird, since we know he's gotten pierced fully by less on top of the fact that we unfortunately cannot see if there are exit wounds or not.

2) That Kyochiro's strings, a thinner and more sharper object would have no issues cutting through kars even based off what I initially shown like the bridge feat and even if I took you for your word. A thinner blade has an easier time cutting than a thicker blade. The rocks in question are a thicker and stronger blade theoretically especially thanks to the momentum they had, but that shouldn't really stop Kyochiro's strings from cutting Kars.

3) This falls in direct contrast with the much higher volcano feat given how you are arguing Kars' piercing resistance via said feat.

We know Kyochiro's steel spider strings are remarkably sharp based off the pre-mission chill session between Kyochiro, Rin and Seiji in chapter 62. Seiji cuts his hands and turns them into a bloody mess just by trying to wield them. We know Kyochiro utilizes techniques to maintain the same exact thickness but improve its effectiveness which right off the bat makes it a much more effective blade than what has pierced Kars before.

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And as you know since you've read the manga after i posted my opener, Kyochiro has other feats that straight up go to the limits of the tourney in terms of the range his strings can cover and the destruction they can potentially cause.

Scan 1: States he will cut up the whole house. We do not know if this is all in one go or alternatively systematically with a few attacks, The Yozakura Family Home is a two story mansion which falls in line with the limits. So even if its systematically that would definitely fall in line with the limits given how we've seen him use his strings, the bridge feat should be satisfactory as well.

Scan 2: Supports the previous scan, showing that 25 percent of the time the house is burnt down, in the family fights, Kengo adds cheekily that it would be a chance to redecorate implying that's its more than just burning the house down time to time.

Scans 3-5: Kyochiro via Calm Storm creates a decently sized crater that cuts up a huge chunk of solid ground. There should be no objections there regarding its DC.

If you look closely at the scans I posted from chapter 1, he even cut up Shinzo's garbage can tank, and I already gave you an idea on how tanky that is.

And as of the Kawashita fight, Kyochiro can cut his opponents on a cellular level with his strings. Even opening them up so attacks can get through easier.

There should hardly be any objections here or any fancy feat analysis here, this is objectively enough to cut Kars, especially since Kyochiro and Kars are in each other's weight class without a doubt. Kars isn't inherently immune to piercing or anything of that nature so a much thinner and sharper blade is definitely getting through given Kyochiro's feats.

Another thing I want to talk about is Shinzo's lightning gun. This gun requires charging time in order to fire which makes it very impractical. This is why the enemy in the scan says "it is full of flaws I can easily avoid it",

now he ends up getting hit by it but it is due to other characters preventing him from doing so. Furthermore I do not see how it is a type of attack that Kars wouldn't be able to tank and regen from, he did survive getting vaped by magma for a bit of time.

As of chapter 82/83 it doesn't seem like Shinzo needs to do this, all he needs to do is point and shoot via his UTCB which seems to reproduce his spring thunder firing electricity just like it. We see him and the whole family fall through the ceiling, not even prepping their attacks, and then firing at Kawashita immediately.

In addition that's sort of the whole point of Kyochiro supporting him, Kyochiro can attack your entire team and set them up for Shinzo to shoot at any range.

As for tanking and regenerating, he was not "tanking" the magma, it was visibly melting his body and he needed a very specific combination of bodily modifications to defend against it. A combination that would not work against electricity as far as I know.

In addition heat resistance has nothing to do with electricity resistance so no you still need evidence that you can deal with it. Also the blast busted of a portion of that building, Kars isn't tanking that without damage.

Also lets go over what you stated in order to back your statement. T'Challa supposedly not cutting a bar.

So yes, you are correct that T'Challa's can scratch the shield, when Thor couldn't. Therefore Vibranium > that strike from Thor. Since MCU Vibranium is supposed to reflect kinetic energy when struck by an attack IIRC Thor's attack was reflected, and it tipped over all those trees. Making MCU claws higher than that in a way. I actually agree with this.

But at the same time, Black Panther could not pierce entirely through this metal bar. . He managed to pierce into it, but not entirely through.

The shield which itself is Vibranium is unable to pierce through this metal door. It pierced into it, but not through.

It was also able to dig itself into Bucky's titanium arm here, but not go entirely through.

Nigga he cut that shit in half. The cinematography doesn't help since for some reason in the middle of that exchange it cuts to Captain America, but literally right after we see Bucky and T'Challa in the same exact positioning, and the bar instantly gets cut in half. Looking something more like this clip if you cut the Cap scene. Either way T'Challa has other feats in his own movie showing him cutting metal objects relatively easily, like this clip of him nonchalantly cutting a jeep door and throwing it at some random mook. Or cutting a mounted machine gun's support in half in a single swing while simultaneously ragdolling the shooter.

And Cap himself has good feats for his shield cutting through objects as well

In addition although the shield is made of Vibranium, compared to Black Panther's claws, they are a blunt weapon all things considered, they aren't really focused into a blade the same way so bringing it up doesn't really knock T'Challa.

So yes, you are correct that T'Challa's can scratch the shield, when Thor couldn't. Therefore Vibranium > that strike from Thor. Since MCU Vibranium is supposed to reflect kinetic energy when struck by an attack IIRC Thor's attack was reflected, and it tipped over all those trees. Making MCU claws higher than that in a way. I actually agree with this.

One may think that the MCU Thor was a cherrypicked outlier argument, but it really isn't. It is just often misinterpreted.

This may seem weird but let me explain, there is one thing in common with the 4 scans above. All scans show the weapon piercing into a material, but not actually going entirely through.

The reasoning is this, Vibranium as a material itself harder and tougher than something like steel. That is why it was able to dig itself into Cap's shield a little bit and scratch the thing.

But the actual force and kinetic energy behind the weapons are not always on the same level. The reason why this is important is that it is one thing to cut into a material, but after you dig into it, there is frictional force as the sides of the material you are cutting into dissipate the kinetic energy of the weapon. What determines a weapons' ability to pierce through (not just into, but through) an object is 2 things.

1. The strength and thickness of the target

2. The kinetic energy behind the weapon.

This is nice and all but the entire point is not the level of force of the weapon but the weapon's potency to cut through a much more durable object. So literally none of this matters, the entire point is that the vibranium claws were able to scratch and leave marks on a shield that no sold attacks from Phase 1 Thor who has striking strength above the tourney limits by a good deal. In fact this same type of shield took Thanos multiple blows to destroy with his own bladed weapon. And Thanos was tiers above that version of Thor. And even with the entirety of your analysis, why does this matter? I could upscale the hell out of T'Challa's claws thanks to who is getting the upgrades, and upscale Shinzo's guns, explosives, and other weaponry just based off the feats Wakanda weaponry already has. Like for example, Klaus' wrist mounted gun is amped with vibranium and it blew up a vibranium laced car in a single shot. And all forms of vibranium tech are designed to absorb kinetic energy and distribute force, meaning they take impacts well. Even sneakers designed by Shuri absorb sound. Other spears designed with vibranium are capable of stopping tanks.

So like none of this matters in the grand scheme of things this would only matter if Shinzo was tiers below Kars, and he isn't by any means. Something to remember is that Shinzo scales over Taiyo Asano, who was in training to be a superhuman spy.

Taiyo intercepted a soccer ball penalty kick from Hatoda who was using a special device to amplify his kicks, the ball itself when launched was directly compared to a missile and you can visibly see it breaking the sound barrier then causing a decently sized explosion.

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Taiyo has successfully stopped Sui's blade, with his strength and skill.

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Which is impressive since off panel he has cut trucks in half and on panel Sui is strong enough to cut through several floors of a building

Also in a joint feat Taiyo(in base) and Kyochiro bust up a reinforced underground bunker door inside a military base that costed Kawashita hundreds of millions of yen.

To give even more context, Nohmen blitzed and overpowered Taiyo in base casually with little to no effort, a single punch decimating his fake skin armor, and putting him on his ass(which is impressive given Taiyo survived a decently sized explosions that towered over trees)

Shinzo matched him physically and seemed to be stronger as well. His regen and survivability being contributing factors why he couldn't finish him off.

Yama was able to KO Goliath, the family guard dog, and send him rocketing into the side of the Yozakura Mansion, ragdolling the rest of his own men as a side effect of his punch.

Goliath in his beast form is massive and fodderize large groups of men about as tough as Nohmen. You will even see in those scans that he smashes up some trees and causes destruction comparable to the house in size.

When Taiyo himself was injected with Someinine, it allowed him to keep up with Yama and decisively beat him

Taiyo was no longer in base and did that via his blooming, something I explained earlier, Shinzo also has a blooming and can amp himself via Someinine and this would make him even faster and stronger than Taiyo even in his boosted state. Remember, Shinzo is the one who trained Taiyo physically alongside Kyoshiro.

So a vibranium sword in the hands of Shinzo WILL bisect Kars and fairly easily too unless you are arguing that Shinzo cannot even scratch him with his physical strength which Is straight up wrong.

You even admitted our characters can hurt each other so I'm confused on what is the point of mentioning all this stuff. I'm not going to act like bullets are Kars kryptonite(although he did bother deflecting bullets on multiple occasions instead of just tanking them and has been pierced by attacks that would logically have less force than bullets like Stroheim's arm) but Shinzo's weapons amped by Vibranium tech should be effective here.

I mean Shinzo is still in the garbage can. If the Buddha Palm hits the can it will be launched back and Shinzo inside would still suffer the impact as the vibranium can crashes into him after being launched by the Buddha Palm's energy. Also, Kars with his Hamon can conduct through the metal and fry Shinzo, and Shinzo would need the heat resistance feats to avoid being vaped from the inside as the hamon conducts into him. Kars could even conduct hamon into projectiles and get Shinzo that way so he doesn't have to get close if he doesn't want to.

No not really, the tank would well, tank the buddha palm since it still has vibranium qualities. Remember a vibranium shield was able to defend against attacks much stronger than the Budda Palm I.E Thor's strikes and has done so consistently. What I just hyperlinked shows Thor's attack deflecting off of Cap's shield and creating a decently sized shockwave that ragdolls a bunch of soldiers and cuts apart a tank.

And Shinzo could just dodge the attack worse case scenario. Same goes for Kars projectiles, also speaking of hamon, Kars hasn't displayed that level of proficiency with hamon so I'm not sure why you are applying Joseph's techniques to him when he doesn't have them. He literally showed Hamon right before his death we don't know what kind of techniques he can do.

Honestly, even if we take the Thor feat at face value Kars' piercing durability feat against the sharp rocks which sent him to space scale above it.

But remember, those weapons even if they can pierce Kars aren't going to go entirely through, they are now made out of vibranium, but the actual kinetic energy behind them is still the same. Meaning they get slowed down by the friction of Kars' durable body as they enter his skin if they pierce. Vibranium gets you into the flesh, but it doesn't mean you can pierce substantially far to cause non negligible damage. Even if you could, Kars regens.

It doesn't, you placed it at the limits of the tourney so that's what makes this more confusing since I am also arguing my characters at the limits of this tourney and even If I agreed, its nonsensical to think the examples you gave applies here. Despite all the durability feats T'Challa has with his own habit, vibranium bullets can still pierce him.

And as follows

And the vibranium perk overall amps our weapons. This includes Shinzo's Ukon Tumeric weapon which is already made of hundreds of different materials meaning he could craft weapons even better than his current ones and the ones Wakandians use. Shinzo's weapon even has vibrational features just like some wakadian tech and can send voltages through them. Shinzo was also the one who made Taiyo's electricity creating sword/gun and could likely utilize electricity up close.

Shinzo is also a CQC combatant so even if I agreed that his vibranium amped long ranged weapons wouldn't work, he still operates fine in close quarters and would have the weapons necessary to pierce and bisect Kars. Just like Kyochiro could.

And Sing's Buddha palm would logically deflect all the weapons, in the best case they just get blocked but in the realistic case some of it is going back at ya.

Can this be spammed? Also is this his raw strength(therefore the shockwaves of his attacks) doing this or is this an energy based technique because if its the former, I do not see how this isn't over the limits. Also I would like evidence of how this would fair against Shinzo's electricity gun given its destructive output.

Scar actually has a defense against the weapons too, he can use his alchemy to block it. The reason he is even able to do this is due to my explanation about vibranium, the vibranium itself allows the weapons to pierce into the earth walls Scar can make to defend. However they still maintain the same kinetic energy and will slow down due to the frictional force of actually entering the earth. So the either get blocked outright, or the bullets slow down enough that Scar takes superficial or no damage at all. Honestly, it is very very highly likely that the get blocked outright, just look at Black Panther's claws getting blocked by a couple of centimeters of a metal bar.

Given how King Bradley had no issue cutting through his constructs, Shinzo could easily do the same with his blades. In addition, higher caliber rounds amped by vibranium should be fine piercing his constructs. Also why do you keep bringing up the metal bar when he has other feats better than that and has cut the bar in question entirely in half? Also Shinzo's blades are bigger and are technologically designed for combat ON TOP of being amped by vibranium, a katana amped by vibranium would be much more efficient than T'Challa's claws.

Scar deconstructs it, Kars can conduct Hamon through the string which them proceeds to fry Kyochiro, Kars can through a sort of pseudo intangibility (Not actually intangibility) sort of move though the wires by letting them into his body and then out the other end. Sort of like how Santana let a human into his body but instead of digesting Kars lets it out the other end. In general though, Kars teleports out anyways.

Kars based off the description of his senses is the only one who would even be able to see them immediately and defend himself properly. Scar cannot defend himself against all of his strings, and to deconstruct them would require him to touch them which is suicidal given a single string would easily cut him in half. In addition, if he gets restrained by Kyochiro, he won't even be able to use his deconstruct because he will be pinned in a way where he cannot even touch the strings physically with his hands.

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Kyochiro's strings were directly compared to Kawashita's strings which were hardly visible without Taiyo's usage of Blooming.(which grants him enhanced sight) which is consistent with his cocoon mist barrier that he laid around the Yozakura Family house, where anybody who walked into his barrier would get cut up badly.

In the time frame that Kars gets restrained Shinzo would already be capitalizing and firing upon you. Also something I feel is important to keep in mind is that no matter what you are doing at any given time, Josuke will also be on the team healing members and teleporting around the battlefield as well to assist in the fight. Its not only Kyochiro and Shinzo you are fighting.

Sing palms it before it reaches him. And also he scales to the Beast who actually tanked the Buddha Palm albeit with damage. Kyochiro's strength feat for his wires was you showing him suspend an 8 wheeler truck with dozens of wires.

So with dozens of wires, you have truck level. So if we assume Sing lets Kyochiro get that many wires in, something I am not willing to believe he still breaks out.

If the buddha palm is actually a strength feat that means he did that with air pressure, I don't see how he isn't above the limits, and even if he wasn't, that isn't going to stop Kyochiro from fighting. He could stop a frontal assault but not an assault covering multiple angles. Look back at the first few scans I posted. He demolished an entire group of enemies simultaneously meaning he can attack you at angles the Buddha Palm wouldn't even cover in a single move.

Considering he uses a lot more than a dozen, and he has greater feats than "truck level" this isn't a counter. An eight wheeler truck is 10 to 15 tons. I need feats for raw physical strength(not striking feats like the Buddha Palm) that suggest Sing could break out of his wires. Otherwise your entire team will be getting ragdolled or cut in half all at once.

Now the reason I don't believe Kyochiro can get that many wires in is because as I have stated before our characters are relatively equal in speed essentially speaking.

Gonna stop you there. Whatever idea you had or thought you had in that regard is wrong. Speed hardly has anything to do with it. He can simply control that many wires at once. Every scan I showed you should have painted that picture. He solos his entire family skillfully(each one being within his tier to some capacity save Kengo and Shion, Futaba being even stronger than him) with his wires.

Showing control over several wires at once. Heck Calm Storm shows him throwing around numerous wires for a single massive attack.

I will say that Kyo's bridge cutting feat was done when he combined multiple wires together. I presume you would be unable to combine wires when you are using them to slow down my team by placing them in multiple directions and locations.

He had no problem instantly restraining Taiyo while amped on Someinine who previously overpowered, Shinzo, Goliath and Nanao. So, no you are still wrong.

Kars can outright tank the wires even when they are compressed into giant spider whip form. Scar would be able to just tank the normal wires due to wounded Bradley scaling. He would get slashed off by the Giant Spider admittedly. But the deconstruction is an excellent defense against the weapon

There's a huge difference between extremely thin wires that the human eye can hardly perceive, and large chucky rocks with no refined and sharpened edge. And considering we are both placing our characters at the limits of the tourney, its straight up idiotic to claim that a much thinner blade wouldn't be able to fully pierce him, when a metal hand with no blade, had no issues piercing Kars throat while moving nowhere near the same speed as a plane or volcanic rock fragments. Bradley scaling? Bradley was easily slashing his body and cutting up his constructs casually, there is not even any scaling you could benefit from that even compares to cutting that bridge so no, Scar would get bisected easily. Especially with the feats I posted in this post. In chapter 47 superhuman characters just as durable as Scar if not more so literally run into his wires and get cut up.

And the deconstruction is still a horrible defense just as the Buddha Palm is, Kyochiro thanks to the amount of wires he can control at once can literally team bust entire groups of combatants on his tier.

But all that being said, Kars can purposely touch the wires and conduct Hamon and fry Kyo unless you have feats against that. Remember, Kars' Hamon can melt joseph's flesh. And he like all other hamon users can conduct it through things.

Feats of Kars even using Hamon that way? My characters are from a more episodic manga so if there is some issue with gear, I can at least back it up due to their backgrounds and how the story is structured and their actual feats, Kars only showing of Hamon was him screwing around with Joseph before getting launched into space.

Kars purposely touches his wires he gets bisected into dozens of pieces by Calm Storm before Kyochiro even gets burned, also you are forgetting Josuke is here. And he can heal any member of our team instantly.

And of course, the Buddha Palm is the ultimate defense.

This scan here shows Kyo's strings being launched and it gets negged by a shockwave massively inferior to Sing's Palm. (Chapter 21)

Yes, by Rin, leader of the Hinagiku and is a peer of Futaba, both characters who have beaten Kyochiro and are the strongest characters in the verse from a physical perspective and based off their feats would easily beat all parties here and are over the limits. For instance, Futaba sends a thousand people wrapped up in a special cloth, flying past the distance of visibility instantly with her bare hands.

Or alternatively her feat of ragdolling a train and using one of them to surf her way back to her home Taopaipai style which should be several miles away from their location

So Kyochiro having his attacks stopped by someone like Rin isn't an anti-feat here and doesn't magically make Sing more relevant here, because Futaba and Rin would both one shot Sing.

I mean the explosives would get tanked by every character on my team. I am going to assume you are referring to RPG's and stuff which he has in his armory? Or perhaps the garbage can weapons he used in your first Shinzo scans? Either way everyone on the team just tanks that.

They would be amped by vibranium tech, no they wouldn't. At least not easily. Scar is definitely not tanking them based off the feats you showed. And they are especially not tanking the garbage can weapons, if they are amped by vibranium. At the very least they will do damage and do their job as ranged attacks.

Bullets get reacted to by my entire team and get reflected back at you by buddha palm. I have also said some other stuff about the vibranium bullets already above.

I also want to say that Shinzo's accuracy really isn't important. If the bullets are too slow (Which they are) it doesn't matter if you have aim bot or not, since our characters are fast enough to react to bullets after they are fired anyways.

Okay? What a lazy argument, he's tagged and reacted to attacks from supersonic opponents with his guns like I showed with Kurosawa so being a bullet timer doesn't automatically mean you invalidate a marksman. I would love to see you argue that against Deadshot or Train Heartnet or Bullseye. They can tag moving targets or people who have the reaction speed because of how accurate they are. Look at Riza Hawkeye from FMA of all people.

  • Tags Barry The Chopper who reacted to bullets at point blank range.
  • Although Scar dodges the rest of her shots, gets grazed by the first one, although he found out she was aiming at him at the last second her aim was still good enough to be a threat to Scar despite his reflexes. If you know where someone is going to be or can adjust for their movement, a marksman is still very much a threat.
  • Tags Barry The Chopper(Real Body) in the hand he was going to use to attack, as I showed you already he could also dodge bullets, Riza successfully tagged him with a sniper
  • And in mid to close quarters a gun could still be just as good as attacking someone with a sword up close, its still a fast projectile that has to be dealt with or avoided which is more than enough to keep on the pressure. Riza for instance beats Gluttony on the draw and lands a headshot despite sneaking up on her.

His guns are likely better than standard guns anyway given how he designed softball pitchers that can cause more destructive force than bullets.

Clever, but there is one technicality I want to point out about Josuke. Every speed and reaction feat you showed for Josuke is actually Crazy Diamond's. It is CD automatically reacting for him the same way Star Platinum caught the bullet for Jotaro in jail. The reason this technicality is important is because Josuke is the one who has the teleporter, not Crazy Diamond.

What this means, is that the teleportation perk has a long delay since you have provided no reflex feats for Josuke himself. I believe all of Josuke's speed feats are actually Crazy Diamond doing the reacting or moving him. If my assumption is correct, the teleportation won't be all that useful. So when the other characters are fighting, Josuke himself reacts at slower speed to initiate teleportation.

This is an extremely nitpicky argument that isn't supported by any consistent evidence. The stand and the user are so interconnected in combat they are one. Stands are essentially an extension of the user's body.

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Especially with the way Josuke uses it. If Josuke thinks, Crazy Diamond acts. Stands are the psychological energy of the user manifested, they can act on their own, but its relatively trivial. This is an especially silly argument when you consider stand users get themselves out of situations by reacting to a situation then, summoning their stands to solve them. Here Josuke, no words, executes his plan to capture Angelo. Lets him crawl in his mouth, and immediately has CD grab him, pull him out, and ragdoll him.

Its literally an extension of his body and in most cases responds to the will of the user and I really really hope you drop this argument and focus on something else. Because what you are saying doesn't make sense just based off how stand battles work.

An implication of this would be that since Josuke's movement speed is slow compared to everyone else here (Needed to use motorcycle against Highway Star), it will be nearly impossible, if not impossible to keep up with everyone and get into range to Crazy Diamond heal things. And since the teleportation would logically be too slow due to Josuke's non-stand reflexes. Overall the logistics of the healing is poor unless JJBA stand users have the same reflexes as their stands.

They literally have to in order to get out of half of the situations they do. And what you are saying is stupid as shit, bringing up highway star doesn't suddenly make josuke's reflexes or mobility poor(not even your characters have the travel speed to keep up with highway star save Kars via flight so this isn't an anti-feat), especially since he had no trouble reacting to highway star throughout the entire arc and made use of crazy diamond to blitz Yuya at close range. Stand Users can control their stands, I don't really get what you are trying to imply.

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Like there are hundreds of examples of stand users perceiving what their enemies stands are doing and reacting to them just fine. Here is a part 4 example. Although Rohan is notably quick witted himself, he had no issues reacting to CD's attacks with his own physical body.

And Josuke himself reacted to Bad Company's gunfire

I don't even need to do this, there are too many examples of stand users reacting and perceiving what stands do and acting accordingly or reacting to a situation the same way the stand does in the fight. Even then, pursuing this line of questioning goes against how stands are even used narratively in fights and how they even work in the first place.

So no, there will not be any issues teleporting to teammates whatsoever. Let alone teleporting around the battlefield.

I mean Kars can react to machine gun fire even at close range in multiple angles from multiple sources so I don't see how he can't avoid this. if Kyo and Shinzo attacks him with a ranged weapon he just teleports to avoid it. So if a bullet was heading for his forehead Kars would teleport 50cm to the left to avoid it for example.

The sheer firing rate of Shinzo(including his garbage can tank, which already has several weapons equipped to it) and the fact that he can have several weapons out at once and the fact that he's a marksman allows him to put pressure on Kars, he would have to abuse his teleporter really to keep avoiding attacks and ET has not made it clear on discord or on the sign up thread how rapid the teleportation is, or if there is a delay between jumps or just how good it is in general.

I guess you can argue Kyochiro has a chance of clipping him with a wire from time to time if we scale his wires to his own speed (I am steelmanning here, you didn't actually provide a speed for the wires but honestly I can see why if you are scaling his wires to his speed).

I guess you can also scale a sword to a swordsman speed as well.

But as I have already argued and calculated the piercing isn't enough to outdo the sharp rocks which had enough kinetic energy to send Kars to space. Not nearly enough. So if Kars gets hit by the wires he teleports out of them and tanks them and regens.

Not only is this incorrect this assumes Kyochiro has little to no force behind his wires, which he does, in addition as I covered so far, his wires are thinner and therefore a more effective blade than the rocks(which fully pierced him anyway so it hardly matters). He can cut people on a cellular level, so any arguments relating to piercing should be put to bed.

But of course, if Kyo has no heat resistants feats Kars having full knowledge knows this and hamons him through his own wires.

Kars would be ripped apart from the force of his wires before Kars could even do such a thing. In addition, Josuke can perform on the spot healing and repairs so this genuinely doesn't matter.

I will agree that the sense displayed here would be able to detect the invisible Kars. The issue though is that the range displayed is quite lackluster. Only a couple of meters for the Taiyo scan for example. There is nothing wrong with it if my team decided to fight in your team's comfort zone. But they won't.

I completely disagree, but to satisfy you. Here's a scan of Taiyo stating he detected Mutsumi sneaking up on him from 100 meters away which should satisfy all conditions of fighting against invisibility.

In addition we don't even need special senses that lock on positions and shit, Kyochiro and Shinzo's sight via blooming should be enough given they can take in ultraviolet light in order to perceive invisible ink, something that needs special chemicals to make visible to the human eye

Meaning if all the invisibility perk does is make you visually invisible that doesn't actually help. You would still be visible on every other spectrum. And Shinzo and Kyochiro could also smell you or hear you perfectly fine.

Your perks and strategy

....

Now I will first go over Sing's Buddha Palm. The Buddha Palm has impressive AOE and the force it packs honestly should be able to repel every single attack you make, some of the attacks might even rebound on your own team and in addition to that the actual palm will be sent your team's way and they will have to defend against it in someway. This is something your team has shown no counter against directly. At the very least, even if I generously assume it is not a one hit kill move. It should at the very very very minimum be a shield against your team's projectiles and weapons.

Considering this is a charged technique and I have yet to see footage of the technique being spammable, I am not sure how useful the technique is in a sustained back to back fight of attrition. Also the AOE isn't as impressive as you are making it out to be, its only useful really if someone is standing in a straight line, its as useful as someone standing in his line of fire. And seeing how there is a lot of cover and we will have knowledge we could simply attack you at different angles. Josuke himself could teleport to Sing and ambush him with Crazy Diamond.

Also even if you rebound our attacks,(something I hardly think will happen given the force of Kyochiro's wires, and Shinzo's electric guns) Josuke's crazy diamond could fix the wires and bullets and stop them in their tracks, essentially preventing anything from rebounding in a harmful way.

In fact. Josuke hard counters a lot of your defensive maneuvers because of how Crazy Diamond works. I'll talk more about that in a second.

I also want to say that Kars has sight equivalent to that of a space telescope, meaning that since we start far away in the battlefield. It is more likely than not that my team spots yours earlier than the other way around.

If we are being completely real for a second, none of the senses Kars was stated to have in that one panel in the Kars fight(one you used for your header in your opener) ever came into play or was further highlighted. He was constantly tagged throughout the entire fight by things he shouldn't have been tagged by considering his reflexes and senses. Outfoxed by Jojo's plane strategy despite being privy to changes in air pressure, and heat, and having enhanced hearing and sight, and a 400 IQ boost. Was hit by Stroheim's hand when he was only at best a few meters away from his position, and then hit by the volcanic rocks.

And to be honest no that won't be the case. Someinine increases eyesight, hearing and even smell, I already showed that Taiyo while in his base form(without using Someinine) was able to detect someone who was 100 meters away. Thanks to his training with Shinzo he even fought Shirai(an opponent faster and stronger than him) with his eyes closed while using the rest of his senses.

Hamon can be conducted to projectiles one fires, and Kars' hamon is superior to Joseph's here. So Kars' Armadillo shells which he fired at the plane can be amped.

Addressed this. Please show evidence or at least give me a solid reason why Kars can do these techniques that Joseph, Caesar, Jonathan and other hamon users trained to do that Kars himself hasn't shown.

So for example if Kyo blocks these with a wire the hamon can conduct through the wire towards Kyo himself and damage him.

Tbh, Josuke himself could deflect them with Crazy Diamond and use its powers to send them back to you like he did with Keicho's missiles. And even in the case of Kyochiro, the sheer force of the wires would pulverize them or dice them before the energy would transfer to Kyochiro himself.

Now you mention Crazy Diamond being invisible, however due to it being tangible and everything. Kars can sense it due to his airhorn which gives him Wammu's sensing feats. Meaning he gets Wammu's ability to fight while blind so he can sense invisible things like CD.

Stands are made of a psionic energy, although for the sake of fairness and the rules CD would be touchable as if other characters had stands, that doesn't suddenly make him detectable via air currents. In addition, I addressed the Air Horn, Kars hasn't used any of his senses or shown how effective he is with them in combat.

On the other hand, the 2 Yozakura's are 5 meters away and won't have the time to save Josuke.

1 )Kyo for example won't have the time to use his wires to block. And even then its unlikely his wires can block Kars' arm blade which if needed can be channeled with Hamon. The wires would have to move 5 meters, and Kars only has to move a couple of centimeters.

2) What this means is that strategically speaking, Josuke pretty much at all times has to be within less than a meter at most of the Yozakura's. Because if he isn't, the distance is gonna be likely too far for the other 2 to defend him against a teleport brain stab by Kars which only takes a couple centimeters of movement.

Now of course, maybe Kyoshiro's wires move at mach 100 or something. But that would be something for you to prove. You didn't provide any speed feats for the wires in your post. So I assumed the default which is that they scale to his actual speed which wouldn't be fast enough to cover a distance of even 1 meter by the time Kars moves his arm a couple of centimeters to kill Josuke.

I lowkey think you are underestimating one's ability to react at the last second. Especially in an exchange of blows. I especially think you are blowing the distance that needs to be covered to defend or dodge out of proportion as well. But seeing as Josuke genuinely doesn't have a counter to invisibility I'll steelman the scenario of the Yozakuras protecting Josuke and address that as a whole.(even though the grounds for why this scenario would happen won't actually come to pass since we can detect you even if you are 100 meters away)

1) Why wouldn't he? His wires can cover several meters and protect the entire team at once, so you would be teleporting in a cage of almost invisible wires, that Kyochiro can control any way he wants that could cut you just by touching them.(Cocoon Mist) In addition all the yozakuras were trained in an environment where they are supposed to react at a moment's notice to adversity(as highlighted in my opener when I talked about life in their house) and it clearly pays off when the boys are ambushed by Kurosawa who ambushes them from several angles while they were already distracted by dealing with waves of enemies, each Yozakura handily avoiding a near death scenario from his attacks, and Taiyo blocking a follow up attack at point blank range. I want to add that Kurosawa isn't fodder and is within their tier. Kyochiro himself ducks an attack from Kurosawa from behind in the initial ambush.

Kyochiro wouldn't even need to block Kars attacks or attack back, simply yanking Josuke out the way with his wires would be enough and from there the battle continues after your failed teleblitz attempt.

2) Not really, especially if the characters are within each other's tier, and if we are to go with this line of thinking wouldn't the same exact thing apply to your team if we could detect you from a 100 meters away or more? Josuke could teleport the entire team on top of yours, Shinzo or Kyochiro being capable of raining down attacks on your entire team all at once in one go. And Josuke would most definitely beat the crap out of your weakest link, being Scar for example.

Overall I feel that Kars being able to freely teleport makes things very easy for my team in terms of movement and everything. His superior range in sensing means he can surprise your team and he can gain information on their current movements before they can even see him.

Literally everything you are saying applies to my team as well so this doesn't matter. I already highlighted the sensory abilities that comes from Yozakura training, and making use of Someinine. We can detect you from hundreds of meters away. Just look at Kyochiro in chapter 42, he was detecting torpedos with his back turned and pinned down exactly where another one was(hence throwing Taiyo so far) was and calculated how long it would take to reach Kyochiro.

For the former, given how advanced torpedoes moving at 230 miles the distance one of the fastest torpedoes can cross in 3 seconds is about 300 meters.

Or in chapter 2 where with no information or implication that he knew beforehand where the bomber was, took a bomb that was on Taiyo and "returned it to its owner" who was a whole building away from him.

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There is many things Kars can do with the versatile teleportation too. For example, lets say that hypothetically speaking Shinzo is the type of person to not want to shoot Kyoshiro since he is family, Kars can choose to teleport right next to Kyo, at a location that makes Kyo, Kars and Shinso colinear to each other. Meaning they fit in a straight line, meaning Kyo is between them, NS Kyo is directly in front of Kars in Shinso's perspective. Meaning if Shinso wants to retaliate he would have to shoot through Kyo or move to an angle where his bullets can hit Kars without going through Kyo first .

So if you can't prove that Shinso is willing to shoot through his family, Kars can do this and hamon one shot or blade one shot or point blank shell one shot or a combination of all 3 and Shinso effectively in character won't do anything, and Josuke can't see. Or he can grab him and teleport somewhere else to 1v1 him. You might think Kyo can 1v1 Kars (something i don't believe) but I am just saying this is just one of his options.

I doubt you actually can prove Shinso's willing to kill family, because one of the narrative themes and plot points is that the MC of the manga marries a Yozakura to avoid death. You can't kill family

This entire shit is absolute nonsense. You wouldn't even get in range of either Yozakura without either of them fighting back even with the perk. So this convoluted movie drama plot wouldn't even come into play. They can detect you regardless of your invisibility perk and have been trained to deal with ambushes. Like look at Taiyo's wedding reception, the whole thing is just Taiyo and the others dealing with ambushes and assassination attempts while protecting Mutsumi. These are all known spies in the underworld so its not like they are cheap run of the mill fodder either.

As for a 1v1 vs Kars, if I am being quite frank, yes I do belive Kyochiro can beat Kars in a 1v1, you haven't even shown Kars using hamon the way Joseph, Johnathan or any other hamon user does, its literally an ability he awakened on the spot right before his death as a plot point for Joseph to launch him into space since he would have never thought of using the Red Stone in the first place. And despite what you say about Hamon vs Kyochiro's wires, the sheer force of Calm Storm for example would shred Kars apart before hamon could fully transfer,(which would disrupt the flow of hamon since his body is being ripped apart) and tbh after the attack connects, Kyochiro could just let go of the wires or sever the wires before it transfers to him.

Shinzo most definitely would beat the breaks out of Kars since his weak point detection is a hard counter to Kars unique body given his performance against Kurosawa(which you can find in my opener or if you feel like reading the fight the chapters are between 71 to 73) So in a direct fight Shinzo would be capable of beating Kars. He doesn't have to play a range game, he also very much excels at close quarters.

And this collinear crap is stupid, if anything, Kyochiro and Shinzo would move to attack Kars and that would be the end of it. Look at the Kurosawa instance. When Taiyo was ambushed, Taiyo reacted, and Shinzo immediately came around and attacked Kurosawa when he appeared out of nowhere.

Overall battle plan.

So essentially Kars is going to fly up and be a look out directly above the other 2 team members. The team as a unit will move around the battlefield to try to locate yours.

You will be clearly visible to Shinzo and Kyochiro thanks to Someinine. And the closer you get the easier you will be on the radar for their other senses in the scenario that you are not visible to them.

I am basically certain that Kars with his telescope vision sees your team kilometers away. Meaning my team can see yours way before you can see mine.

Yes I understand the Yozakura's have some superficial stealth. But it is not something like true invisibility. They can tread silently and I guess hide behind buildings and what not (Which my other 2 members can too) but I don't think this in any way is able to beat Kars' space telescope vision which should be able to see kilometers away.

Didn't use a single one of his enhanced vision abilities against Joseph, I cannot see him using them here and you seeing my team before you see mine won't change anything. And based off your strategy doing this on the ground decreases the chance of you spotting my team since the buildings would still hide people fairly well from your vision. Telescopes can't see around corners. If you try to spot my team while in the sky that just makes you an easily identifiable target to ambush thanks to Josuke sticking with us to teleport.

We can also go inside the buildings as well which would neg your ability to visually see us, meanwhile Shinzo and Kyochiro have enhanced hearing and can sense people by proximity as you already know. Giving us an advantage to detect you.

Even if the stealth is not superficial, Josuke himself doesn't have stealth. Unless you are gonna split off Josuke (Something you honestly shouldn't do) , he doesn't have stealth so Kars can locate your team.

That wouldn't matter if we are hiding in a building, for example. It would still be up to Kars to locate my team if we were in hiding or visually obstructured in general.

Then when Kars locates your team he will notify the other members of my team about your movements and other necessary information. And they head there. There could be some wiggling and maneuvering here and there as my team adjusts to your team's movements which might change, but eventually my team should be able to get within a couple of hundred meters or so from your team.

If you get within a hundred meters of my team we can easily sense and adjust our positioning using the buildings as a cover. Similar to you we also have full knowledge so we will know that you supposedly have telescope vision

Kars with his invisibility will then just fly up, probably a hundred or so meters into the air and then harass your team. He will fire his armadillo shells at your team and he can amp them with Hamon. They are invisible projectiles which could intercept machine gun fire from a plane.

Now ordinarily, every member of your team can react to these projectiles I think. But the special thing here is that these shells come from Kars' body so they are invis as well. Now Yozakura's can sense the presence of humans, but if Kars is just firing the feather shell, would you be able to sense them?

No go. According to ET projectiles would not become invisible with the perk. So all you are doing is making yourself an insanely easy target for Josuke to teleport the entire team to jump Kars while in the air. Similar to how your team will communicate positions, Kyochiro and Shinzo will do the same and have Josuke teleport everyone on top of Kars and a combined assault from Crazy Diamond, Kyochiro and Shinzo would be enough to do sufficient damage to Kars.

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And considering Taiyo as a beginner with Sominine could use all five of his senses to methodically deal with long range attacks while limiting his sight(see Taiyo vs Shirai) this wouldn't have mattered anyway.

You might try to argue that the Yozakura's can hear them. But Mach 2 projectiles are faster than sound which is mach 1, so its not like you can hear the shells before they hit you. It is scientifically impossible for anybody on your team to hear these shells before they hit them.

You are applying real life logic when that realistically wouldn't apply in fictional battles. Characters fight using their ears against supersonic characters all the time. This is no better than talking at supersonic speeds. You are thinking too hard about this.

At a distance of around 100 meters, nobody on your team has feats posted that can detect invisible Kars at this range. If new feats come that show the human sensing is 100 meters, logically Kars would know this from the beginning and fly higher.

You would still be visible to Kyochiro and Shinzo and based off your strategy you would be firing visible projectiles that mark your position. So this doesn't matter. In fact, the farther you are away from your team, the more easily my team can clear out your weaker members since your projectiles would take longer to reach the intended targets.

However, Kars with his telescope vision probs will still be able to sense and see your team. And I don't think your team has an answer for the feather shells packed with hamon.

I don't have an answer for it because he never showed proficiency in hamon outside of generic generation of the damn energy. Despite the descriptions of his senses(his sight is the only thing we get an actual description of range btw) we never see them in action and we see him consistently get tagged by shit he shouldn't get tagged by in his fight against Joseph.

And this isn't some disingenuous argument or anything, or some lowballing of one specific instance against millions. This is all that happened during the final fight. Gets outplayed by a visual ploy by Joseph with his parachute despite having telescope vision and heat sensing, gets tagged by the plane that was coming at him despite having air pressure sensing, then gets tagged by the volcanic rocks, although the narrator implies he could have easily dodged it.

So anyway, Kars sees Josuke and shoots him by spamming his shells, Hamon is added if need be. Josuke can't heal himself. And he also can't heal people who are dead. So Josuke can pretty much get one shotted here by the hamon shells. Even without the hamon the shells could go through the metal of the plane as I have shown in my kars section. Now just like you with Kyoshiro, I want to ask you to show me piercing/slashing resistance feats for human Josuke and Crazy Diamond (Which can be hurt here). Would they be able to tank this level of piercing when amped by Hamon which an inferior user like Caesar used to amp soft and cooked spaghetti to be able to pierce glass?

Shinzo himself should be fine seeing as he took attacks from Kurosawa. And Kyochiro technically scales. As for Crazy Diamond, stands consistently at the very least with their fists, can deflect bladed weaponry and piercing attacks. So as long as Crazy Diamond can see them he should have no problem deflecting them.

Because Kyo took his time and effort to destroy and dodge some of the traps in the house which included regular plain old machine guns. Was that just plot?

By this same token then your entire argument falls flat regarding tanking and regenerating everything my team does since Kars went out of his way to use the armadillo shell to protect himself and went out of his way to deflect Stroheim's bullets.

If this doesn't do, the rest of the team comes in either by Kars teleporting back to them then teleporting them to your team or simply running. Scar can shield and defend from your weapons (Except Giant Spider maybe). Sing can Buddha Palm which is a technique which frankly oneshots your team according to their current showings. It is AOE so it is difficult to dodge. I think the combination of my team's abilities and statistics are far too strong.

Kars has to get within melee range and physically touch the parties he is teleporting. The brothers are trained against ambushes, if Kars teleports behind the brothers he has to be prepared to get countered.

Scar cannot shield nor defend against Kyochiro's wires, especially if Kyochiro uses them competently. He is most definitely isn't stopping Calm Storm.

Buddha Palm based off its destructive output isn't stopping Calm Storm and it isn't oneshotting either and its AOE only covers a small portion of a building its not massive. Dodging it shouldn't be a problem, especially with knowledge.

If at any moment, any member of your team is distracted with something such as dodging, blocking, or shooting at someone, or preoccupied in any way. Kars can abuse his teleportation and teleport somewhere not in front of them and next to them and then one shot with hamon blade or just normal blade. The same goes for if any member of your team is more than a meter or (several just to be safe?) away from the others, especially Josuke.

Literally everything you are mentioning regarding teleportation also applies to my team. I'm not really sure why you are acting like your team is the only one with a teleporter, you haven't proven anything regarding Josuke's reflexes, so his teleporter is still usable here, Kyochiro is at the limits of this tourney, same goes for Shinzo

Scar can defend with alchemy against every attack on your team except maybe Giant Spider. Kars in general should be fine and regen from anything your team can throw at him. Sing has issues against sharp things but the Buddha Palm is the ultimate defense and offense.

Except that he cannot. The only constructs he ever made was in his fight against Bradley and it doesn't have any good defensive feats to suggest it could block anything from Kyochiro, or amped vibranium bullets that have successfully pierced T'Challa's habit, or the destructive force of Shinzo's electric gun. His UTCB also would bust up his constructs seeing as he demolished Kurosawa.

Until I see more proof, there are nothing but counters to the Buddha Palm, it only covers a specific direction, the AOE is not as big as you say it is, and there isn't anything stopping someone like Josuke from teleporting behind you after you fire it off and hitting you from your blind spots, or Kyochiro hitting you at an angle with his wires that the BP wouldn't cover or Shinzo simply adjusting his position so his shots land on Sing. Also if its a product of physical strength its over the damn limits so you can't even use it.

The issue I have is that most of the bullets Shinzo would use in this match are bullet speed, which is something street levelers are supposed to be able to consistently react to and defend against.

I'm sorry but this is a lazy argument. On paper you are spitting something, but go set up a CaV against Deadshot, Bucky or literally any notable marksman like Deadpool or Deathstroke or even Green Arrow, just saying your characters can dodge bullets isn't enough. I'd understand if you were to say something like "my character have experience against bullets in the most ridiculous circumstances like dodging several bullets from different angles" or showed an example of Sing using his senses to dodge a bullet without looking, etc.

There is so many ways you can actually address a character using a goddamn gun, but saying something like, "my character can dodge bullets so why would a guy with a gun be a threat" is such a braindead way of addressing such a topic. Especially Kars and his cronies who are bullet timers and Joseph himself have been tagged by less. Scar was threatened by Riza

The Buddha Palm itself is something your team really has no defense against from what you have shown. It would oneshot your entire team at once including Josuke so that you can't even heal. Even the garbage can Shinso can gets hurt while in it due to the sheer force transfer as the vibranium gets pushed and slams into him. Potentially crushing him. Even if not, Josuke and Kyo would be dead. And then Kars comes in and hamon or Scar deconstructs.

Kyochiro and Shinzo are at the limits of the tourney physically so no, they aren't getting one shotted, and Josuke's Crazy Diamond should at least be close to the limits courtesy of shattering boulders and scaling to Star Platinum so I cannot see it one shotting him either.

And with how vibranium works, the Buddha Palm wouldn't really be sending him flying like that. And Scar isn't deconstruction a material he isn't familiar with.

Another thing you won't really be able to defend against is Kars' Hamon attacks, or honestly even his non hamon attacks. And his teleportation which allows him to disengage from any fight, dodge any restraint or attack. Teleport preoccupied and distracted opponents somewhere else, or teleports next to them and oneshots with hamon.

Josuke also has teleportation and while coordinating with Kyochiro and Shinzo we can deal with your weaker members and then jump Kars. Also in the interval between you teleporting someone(Kars would have to accompany whoever he teleports with) we can continue the assault on other members with whoever's left.

His alchemy is a little bit tricky to actually deal with, the constructs come very fast, substantially faster than minigun bullets (Tags Wounded Bradley who is equal in speed to Scar who even in BoS blitzed 2 characters who can react to minigun fire). They can pierce (Like against Bradley) and serve as defense as well as offense at the same time. He may not have the one shot kill power of Sing or Kars but he is still useful.

Tagged him when he had no knowledge on his alchemy, and Bradley proceeded to cut down every single construct after. Piercing bradley is cool but Bradley has no notable piercing durability feats really. And Scar's alchemy has no defensive feats.

I don't know why you didn't just pick Alphonse or literally any other competent alchemist with feats.

Summary

  • Kyochiro control space with his wires, and can attack your entire team at the same time with the destructive force and range his wires possess. Shinzo can one shot anybody on your team via weakpoint detection, and for the weaker characters can simply one shot them with his weapons naturally.
  • Everything you said regarding teleportation could apply to Josuke who will be coordinating with his team. We could ambush you just as easily as you can ambush us and we can detect you even if you are a 100 meters away.
  • Your counters to vibranium aren't relevant since Kars piercing isn't as great as you say it is and vibranium bullets have pierced T'Challa's habit which has solid durability feats as well and the habit is designed to stop attacks from getting through unlike Kars muscles. Higher caliber guns like miniguns combined with vibranium bullets would shred through Scar and his defenses unless you have direct feats for Scar's alchemy defenses that aren't Edward's or Alphonse's.
  • Kyochiro's wires can destroy every single member of your team without fail
  • Josuke can do on the spot healing and will be protected and supported by Kyochiro and Shinzo, Josuke can also used destroyed fragments of the battlefield or any rebounded attacks and send it back to the opposition.
  • The Buddha Palm only covers a set amount of space, so its not the ultimate offense and defense objectively if it goes in a straight line and you know the amount of AOE it covers(we do since we have full knowledge)

A team of this caliber are no match for the Yozakura and Joestar Family

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