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#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Welcome to round two of the big leagues for the best Street Leveler. Rules are simple, two men enter, one man leaves. All fights are to the Death, KO, or Incap. All characters have what is considered standard gear to them. Winners move on to the next round to earn respect and entertain the masses who wish to learn more about them. Without further ado here are today's contestants.

In the last match, she won without exerting effort, the deadly female assassin of DC, the one and only Lady Shiva! @chimeroid

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In his last match this contestant won with a few swipes of his claws. The bastard son of Wolverine himself, Daken! @thenaughtytitan

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Battle here starting 100 feet apart from the middle.

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#2 Posted by Bullet_to_the_Head (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Um what does it mean Shiva won with out effort?

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#3 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I have some stuff I need to do that may take a bit, you can open if you like.

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#7 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

I will just make an opener and let him have the first pick at a winning tactic :D

Physical prowess

Speed -Has kicked down multiple arrows shot by Hawke while breaking them all

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Durability–She has tanked Batman’s hits with no damage showing.

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Strength– She has enough strength to seemingly effortlessly toss a full grown man with one hand and hold him up against the wall.

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I am leaving her martial art expertise as the last because it is by far where she impresses the most

Expert martial artist

Shiva has mastered martial arts that most people didn’t even know existed.

here we see her beating an impossible number of trained opponents with her bare hands And later taking on David Caine while pregnant.

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#8 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I will throw out an opener/strategy probably tomorrow, I will tonight if I finish my essay that is due tomorrow :D

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#9 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

Daken

Daken Akihiro, son of wolverine. Ripped from his dead mothers womb as a baby, he only survived because of the healing factor he inherited from his father, wolverine.
Daken Akihiro, son of wolverine. Ripped from his dead mothers womb as a baby, he only survived because of the healing factor he inherited from his father, wolverine.

Opener

Speed/Agility

As most of you know Daken is very fast. He has shown to be even faster than his father, Wolverine. I feel that Daken may have a speed advantage in this battle, this will be helpful in dismantling a very skilled fighter(shiva). I am going to show off some of the many impressive speed feats Daken has assembled over the years.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Above is a fight with Wolverine. Daken clearly outclasses him in speed and is even able to circle all the way around wolverine and stab him in the back before he can even react.

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Daken is so fast he is able to catch Bullseye's hand when he tries to attempt to stab him. Bullseye has tagged and kept up with Gambit in a fight, it is very impressive how easily Daken can evade and block his attacks.

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Daken is fast enough to cut Deadpool's hand off from across the room, Deadpool did not even notice Daken moved. This is impressive considering Deadpool's reaction time, Deadpool who casually dodges bullets all the time and has fought on the par with Daredevil.

That is all I need to show for agility so far, I feel that Daken is faster than Shiva and will use this advantage to tear her apart with his claws.

Healing

This is a huge advantage in this fight. Daken is hard as heck to put down and I do not think Shiva can do it.

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Daken's healing factor like his fathers is so strong he can fight off molecular manipulation.

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Above Daken survives and remains conscious after a large explosion that completely decimated a house.

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Daken's healing factor tanks being shot in the chest multiple times, being stabbed, a large explosion and a nasty bite on the lip, I don't see shiva putting him down.

Skill

I have already shown some skill feats in speed, such as Daken taking on his father(wolverine) and showing off great technique. Allow me to throw out some more skill feats.

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Above Daken chops the throat of venom with a perfectly executed and placed open hand strike. He hits venom so hard that he is gasping for air despite having enhanced healing and durability.

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^ Daken goes up against Asgardians with weapons and dismantles them.

Claws/Cutting capability

I don't think there will be any protest that Daken can cut Shiva, Daken has sliced up Asgardians, cut Spiderman, stabbed Skaar(partially with muramasa) and sliced up 2099 Hulk. This is not really something I feel I need to post scans for because it is kind of an obvious answer, Daken can and will slice Shiva to bits.

Pheromones/Disappearing

As many of you know Daken has pheromones he can use to control people, along with this he has an ability or rather skill taught to him by Romulus. That skill allows him to remain unseen in a fight, he showed this in his fight against Spiderman. Here are a few scans of his pheromones at work.

Daken uses his pheromones to get a guy to confess to something he did not do.
Daken uses his pheromones to get a guy to confess to something he did not do.
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Daken makes a woman run out into traffic and as a result she gets hit by a bus.

Daken can use pheromones in the fight to gain an advantage and make Shiva vulnerable. His disappearing ability will come in handy if he wants to take out Shiva with stealth.

Strategy/How Daken wins

Okay so I don't have too specific of a strategy, I don't feel I need one. Daken could go the stealth rout and try to get the jump on shiva, but even if she gets the jump on him Daken wins. His healing factor and speed will be too much for her. Shiva has no knowledge of his healing factor and if she will be in for a big surprise when he does not go down, this will allow Daken to take advantage and end her while she is not expecting it.

In the fight if Shiva lasts a little while Daken's pheromones will set in and will give him big advantage. His pheromones will mess with shiva's mind set, even if it does not effect her too much it will still be enough to land a finishing blow. I don't see Shiva Getting passed Daken's healing factor, I don't see her winning this fight.

I am curious as to how you think Shiva will take him out.

Counters

She has tanked Batman’s hits with no damage showing.

Okay, not very impressive and Daken will be hitting her with sharp claws, not blunt force.

here we see her beating an impossible number of trained opponents with her bare hands And later taking on David Caine

Not very impressive fodder, Daken took on loads of Asgardian fodder which is more impressive than that scan.

There is not really much to counter because you did not say too much....

@chimeroid

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#10 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

will reply in a couple of days, should be work free sunday

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#11 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

will reply in a couple of days, should be work free sunday

Make sure to tag me when you do.

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#12 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Lol! I could not find the thread by googling it so I thought you deleted it by mistake because I dropped out of the other tourney. Thought you got mixed up lol! Huge relief...

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#13 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan said:

Daken

Opener

Speed/Agility

As most of you know Daken is very fast. He has shown to be even faster than his father, Wolverine. I feel that Daken may have a speed advantage in this battle, this will be helpful in dismantling a very skilled fighter(shiva). I am going to show off some of the many impressive speed feats Daken has assembled over the years.

Shiva is no slouch either, in one fight against multiple armed assailants (will provide scans if needed) she was able to disarm one by throwing his gun up kill him, kill others, knock down Cassandra and then casually reach out with her hand so the gun will fall down, gun only went up a foot or so

Above is a fight with Wolverine. Daken clearly outclasses him in speed and is even able to circle all the way around wolverine and stab him in the back before he can even react.

Even though he is faster than she is, she has body reading which would allow her to easily keep up with him

Daken is fast enough to cut Deadpool's hand off from across the room, Deadpool did not even notice Daken moved. This is impressive considering Deadpool's reaction time, Deadpool who casually dodges bullets all the time and has fought on the par with Daredevil.

That is an arguable feat, since Deadpool was doing a speech thing and wasnt even watching or caring for that matter.

Healing

This is a huge advantage in this fight. Daken is hard as heck to put down and I do not think Shiva can do it.

Daken's healing factor like his fathers is so strong he can fight off molecular manipulation.

Above Daken survives and remains conscious after a large explosion that completely decimated a house.

Daken's healing factor tanks being shot in the chest multiple times, being stabbed, a large explosion and a nasty bite on the lip, I don't see shiva putting him down.

Decapitation is the solution my friend, Or general taking him apart one juicy piece at a time, starting with his bone claws. :D

Skill

I have already shown some skill feats in speed, such as Daken taking on his father(wolverine) and showing off great technique. Allow me to throw out some more skill feats.

bove Daken chops the throat of venom with a perfectly executed and placed open hand strike. He hits venom so hard that he is gasping for air despite having enhanced healing and durability.

^ Daken goes up against Asgardians with weapons and dismantles them.

His skill is incredible, but we are talking here about a martial artist so awesome, she learns a new Style insanely quickly then challenges and kills the master of that style using that style only so she could be the only grandmaster. Also, that throat chop cant hold a candle to the Leopard Blow...

Claws/Cutting capability

I don't think there will be any protest that Daken can cut Shiva, Daken has sliced up Asgardians, cut Spiderman, stabbed Skaar(partially with muramasa) and sliced up 2099 Hulk. This is not really something I feel I need to post scans for because it is kind of an obvious answer, Daken can and will slice Shiva to bits.

And shiva carries around her katanas and kusarigama. She can cut him better and from bigger distance

Pheromones/Disappearing

As many of you know Daken has pheromones he can use to control people, along with this he has an ability or rather skill taught to him by Romulus. That skill allows him to remain unseen in a fight, he showed this in his fight against Spiderman. Here are a few scans of his pheromones at work.

Daken makes a woman run out into traffic and as a result she gets hit by a bus.

Daken can use pheromones in the fight to gain an advantage and make Shiva vulnerable. His disappearing ability will come in handy if he wants to take out Shiva with stealth.

Now, this is one thing i do not know how it works. Shiva now wears a ninja mask including the mouth/nose piece. So i do not think it would be that big of a point.

Strategy/How Daken wins

Okay so I don't have too specific of a strategy, I don't feel I need one. Daken could go the stealth rout and try to get the jump on shiva, but even if she gets the jump on him Daken wins. His healing factor and speed will be too much for her. Shiva has no knowledge of his healing factor and if she will be in for a big surprise when he does not go down, this will allow Daken to take advantage and end her while she is not expecting it.

In the fight if Shiva lasts a little while Daken's pheromones will set in and will give him big advantage. His pheromones will mess with shiva's mind set, even if it does not effect her too much it will still be enough to land a finishing blow. I don't see Shiva Getting passed Daken's healing factor, I don't see her winning this fight.

I am curious as to how you think Shiva will take him out.

Shiva is as stealthy as he is. Don't forget she has sneaked up to Batman and Robin for an effortles KO of boy blunder. You are right that she has no knowledge against his healing factor and that it would be a big thing, But since she goes for mortal wounds that are show to be able to temporarily stun even the highest healers in Marvel i think he couldnt take a stab and end her by surprising her.

She takes him by using her ranged weapons effectively, reading his body and hitting points with her shurikens to slow him down, And decapitating him with her lovely sword

Counters

She has tanked Batman’s hits with no damage showing.

Okay, not very impressive and Daken will be hitting her with sharp claws, not blunt force.

You are quite right, sharp claws would cut her, but the point of this scan was just to prove that she wont get KOed by a single lucky shot.

here we see her beating an impossible number of trained opponents with her bare hands And later taking on David Caine

Not very impressive fodder, Daken took on loads of Asgardian fodder which is more impressive than that scan.

Both those fodder and the ones Sirfizz shown on the picture here are trained fighters. Daken is a beast but he is still a street level with no adamantium in him.

There is not really much to counter because you did not say too much....

Just wanted you to open up :D

@chimeroid

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#14 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: You can highlight and hit the quote button on posts. It looks a bit jumbled and maybe that will help to show whats mine and what is yours...

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#15 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: will edit in a minute

have to finish a text i am doing at work...

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#16 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: will edit in a minute

have to finish a text i am doing at work...

Okay. Just highlight my words and hit quote.

will edit in a minute

And it will look like this.

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#17 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Looks good, will have my reply sometime soon.

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#19 Posted by AgentGhostRider (1246 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: So that's how you do that, thanks

Tag For Votes, I'll explain why I choose my winner

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#20 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

Shiva is no slouch either, in one fight against multiple armed assailants (will provide scans if needed) she was able to disarm one by throwing his gun up kill him, kill others, knock down Cassandra and then casually reach out with her hand so the gun will fall down, gun only went up a foot or so

Impressive sure, but I don't see how that puts her on Daken's speed level. You will have to show more if you really want to prove she is on par with Daken.

Even though he is faster than she is, she has body reading which would allow her to easily keep up with him

Reading body language can't save someone forever. Daken can also use his disappearing ability. Shiva has no counter for this and she can't read the body language of someone she can't see.

That is an arguable feat, since Deadpool was doing a speech thing and wasnt even watching or caring for that matter.

It would be arguable but he did it again right after.

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As shown above Deadpool is giving Daken all of his attention and Daken still manages disappear right in front of Deadpool and hit his gun out of his hand before he can react.

Decapitation is the solution my friend, Or general taking him apart one juicy piece at a time, starting with his bone claws. :D

It's really not going to be that easy. She will not take apart the faster Daken whom has a huge advantage with his disappearing ability. She could not cut his head off. Truthfully shiva is not going to be able to see him. Daken can and will sneak up on her with his disappearing and she has no counter for that. Daken with tear her apart with his claws.

His skill is incredible, but we are talking here about a martial artist so awesome, she learns a new Style insanely quickly then challenges and kills the master of that style using that style only so she could be the only grandmaster. Also, that throat chop cant hold a candle to the Leopard Blow...

There is a certain point where skill cannot cope with other advantages, Daken is too fast, ferocious and is too durable(healing.) Also Daken also has an edge in stealth because he can disappear.

And shiva carries around her katanas and kusarigama. She can cut him better and from bigger distance

Daken can and will close that distance. Daken is fast enough to effortlessly dodge attacks from the god of war(Ares) and Wolverine. He should not have any trouble dodging Shiva's attacks. Sure Shiva may cut him somehow but what will that do? Daken can heal.

Now, this is one thing i do not know how it works. Shiva now wears a ninja mask including the mouth/nose piece. So i do not think it would be that big of a point.

The mouth and nose piece may counter the pheromones but they won't counter his disappearing technique. His disappearing has nothing to do with pheromones and Shiva has no counter for it. Daken could easily slice her up without even being noticed and there is nothing Shiva can do about it.

Shiva is as stealthy as he is.

No she is not, Daken can disappear while in the sight of superhumans, he did this against Deadpool, Wolverine and Spiderman.

She takes him by using her ranged weapons effectively, reading his body and hitting points with her shurikens to slow him down, And decapitating him with her lovely sword

Daken is a bullet timer, I don't see her hitting him with shurikens.

You are quite right, sharp claws would cut her, but the point of this scan was just to prove that she wont get KOed by a single lucky shot.

Well he is not going to be throwing punches, he will have his claws out from the start of the fight. I assume you know this.

Both those fodder and the ones Sirfizz shown on the picture here are trained fighters. Daken is a beast but he is still a street level with no adamantium in him.

Trained fodder is still fodder, Daken has taken on fodder on multiple occasions including Agardian fodder, that is more impressive than trained human fodder.

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Above Daken takes on some skilled fodder and dodges bullets, shiva doing so is not impressive and will not win here this fight.

Daken is a beast but he is still a street level with no adamantium in him.

Obviously he is street level, this is a street level tourney LOL! Is him not having adamantium supposed to help shiva? It won't.

Tactic/summary

Now that you opened up a bit with your tactics for Shiva winning I can put together a gameplan.

Strategy 1: The location gives a lot of room for Shiva to hide or to try and get the jump on Daken but she won't. Daken will be able to smell her with his enhanced senses so he will know where she is. Daken will find her and then end her. Daken's disappearing will be how he ends this fight, he will get the jump on her and cut her limb from limb and she does not have the gear(armor) to stop that onslaught. Shiva does not have any defense for Daken's disappearing. Daken has a tendency to make his presence know so he will probably show himself before he disappears but that will not change that she will not be able to see him once he does use his ability/technique.

Strategy 2: This is a random encounter which means Shiva has no idea about Daken's abilities which means she does not know about his healing. This works into Daken's advantage because in a fight with Shiva she will think she had badly injured or even killed him IF she hits him with her weapons, Daken can largely avoid them due to speed but if he gets hit by them he gains an advantage because she thinks he is vulnerable or that the fight is over but little does she know Daken has a healing factor. The strategy for Daken is to basically dodge or tank anything she throws his way and then go in for the kill.

I see Daken going for Strategy one more so than 2. Basically Shiva is outclassed here. Daken is faster and he has abilities that she can't defend.

the fight ends quickly and viciously by the claws of the half Japanese hipster Wolverine :D

Daken goes out drinking after he guts her :)
Daken goes out drinking after he guts her :)

Since it was not added into the OP I would just like to inform everyone that I am using pre death Daken btw...

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#21 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: I will just put a mini response now, then a real one later. I think he disappears using his pheromones. Could you provide me with scan or source (including wiki) to prove it is a skill/magic thingy, that is not in his powerset.

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#23 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid:

What is commonly thought to be an extension of his pheromones, Daken can appear to teleport or move at superhuman speeds to where his enemies aren't looking. It is actually a technique that was taught to him by Romulus. Daken does not move at superhuman speeds but due to his skill and stealth he is able to perform it on characters that have heightened reflexes such as Deadpool, Wolverine and Spider-Man.

The above quote is from Daken's wiki

http://www.comicvine.com/daken/4005-42501/

Even if it were due to his pheromones Daken could still do it to shiva considering he did it to Spiderman whom has a mask. It is not due to pheromones though.

I left out a part of my comment, I would like to ask that I finish it and then you reply to my last comment.

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#24 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: Of course, you can finish it and then i shall reply

anyhow. it seems his disappearing is just dodging eyesight. Body reading would stop that will wait for your next tag to reply to your post

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#25 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Deadpool was looking at him the scan before and he has done it to wolverine whom was looking straight at him. Shiva is not going to be able to read his body language, she won't see him. How does a person read the body language of a person they can't see?

Lol also the scan you quoted is the one I was looking for, look at the last panel Daken states it is a skill and it is not due to pheromones.

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#26 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I already showed these scans which disprove you saying that she will be able to read him. Deadpool does not even know Daken moved even though he was staring directly at him. She won't be able to read his body language. Also Wolverine has showings of reading body language(even reading body language of speedsters(speed demon) and Daken's disappearing techniques worked on him.

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#27 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: I am waiting for your debate post, i dont want to turn this into short post debate, that can go off topic easily, anyhow, that is what i wanted to see, how it works if it is only dodging eyesight Sandra can keep up with that.

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#28 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan: I am waiting for your debate post, i dont want to turn this into short post debate, that can go off topic easily, anyhow, that is what i wanted to see, how it works if it is only dodging eyesight Sandra can keep up with that.

That is not proven and it most likely has a lot to do with speed as well. Anyway Daken is able to do this on Deadpool and Wolverine as well as Spiderman, shiva is not going to keep up with Daken's disappearing ability when the Wolverine can't.....

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#29 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I will add on to my post later, when I copied it down from google docs I left out my second tactic. I wan't to add to it a bit as well...

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#30 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan said:

Impressive sure, but I don't see how that puts her on Daken's speed level. You will have to show more if you really want to prove she is on par with Daken.

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You wanted to see some bullet timing? Here it is and for the record the dude is good, next scan shows how good he is

Reading body language can't save someone forever. Daken can also use his disappearing ability. Shiva has no counter for this and she can't read the body language of someone she can't see.

She has fought someone stealthier than Daken before. And his disappearing is not an ability it is just a skill. he cant use it before he sees her eyes so he can dodge the eye sight and her body reading means she knows where he will go before he goes there/ ducks out of her eyesight.

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And this is shiva battling him

Last scan is him battling superman after he got found

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As shown above Deadpool is giving Daken all of his attention and Daken still manages disappear right in front of Deadpool and hit his gun out of his hand before he can react.

Deadpool is one of the less consistent people, and he talks too much. Even in those scans, also He cant body read :D

It's really not going to be that easy. She will not take apart the faster Daken whom has a huge advantage with his disappearing ability. She could not cut his head off. Truthfully shiva is not going to be able to see him. Daken can and will sneak up on her with his disappearing and she has no counter for that. Daken with tear her apart with his claws.

As i said his disappearing doesnt work the way you imagine it to. It is not invisibility he LITERALLY just dodges eyesight, he has to see your eyes in orther to utilize it

There is a certain point where skill cannot cope with other advantages, Daken is too fast, ferocious and is too durable(healing.)

She has fought people who are insanely fast before. Take a look at my Shadowdragon scans. Ok, superman was not as fast in those comics but was still greatly faster than humans. As far as ferocity goes she is quite up there with him. Here is a feat of strength and ruthlessness

No Caption Provided

Daken can and will close that distance. Daken is fast enough to effortlessly dodge attacks from the god of war(Ares) and Wolverine. He should not have any trouble dodging Shiva's attacks. Sure Shiva may cut him somehow but what will that do? Daken can heal.

As long as she doesn't cut something off, Daken cannot regrow limbs.Here is an other scan of her effortlessly demolishing bullet timing enemies. Even more impressive is that Katana was slicing up a hailstorm of bullets instead of aim dodging :D Also pressure points could still incap him. Something went wrong as i was posting these scans so some of them are big even tho i tried to do the filmstrip.

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The mouth and nose piece may counter the pheromones but they won't counter his disappearing technique. His disappearing has nothing to do with pheromones and Shiva has no counter for it. Daken could easily slice her up without even being noticed and there is nothing Shiva can do about it.

No she is not, Daken can disappear while in the sight of superhumans, he did this against Deadpool, Wolverine and Spiderman.

I believe i have explained Shivas counter to disappearing earlier in this post.

Daken is a bullet timer, I don't see her hitting him with shurikens.

It would boil down to bullet timing vs body reading, keep in mind Shiva can throw 20 shuriken with absolute precision at once which was shown when she killed 20 manbats for not learning fast enough.

Unfortunately i cant provide a scan of that cuz i've read the chapter from my friends book. And i cant find it online.

Well he is not going to be throwing punches, he will have his claws out from the start of the fight. I assume you know this.

Claws out from the start of the fight give Shiva and advantage, she wont be surprised by popping of the blades she didnt know existed.

Trained fodder is still fodder, Daken has taken on fodder on multiple occasions including Agardian fodder, that is more impressive than trained human fodder.

Above Daken takes on some skilled fodder and dodges bullets, shiva doing so is not impressive and will not win here this fight.

Fodder is fodder i will not argue with that. Here is Sandra battling yet another fodder

No Caption Provided

Obviously he is street level, this is a street level tourney LOL! Is him not having adamantium supposed to help shiva? It won't.

The lack of adamantium means she can slice through his bones with her katanas. And that she can the leopard blow to make a hole in his skull

Tactic/summary

Now that you opened up a bit with your tactics for Shiva winning I can put together a gameplan.

Strategy 1: The location gives a lot of room for Shiva to hide or to try and get the jump on Daken but she won't. Daken will be able to smell her with his enhanced senses so he will know where she is. Daken will find her and then end her. Daken's disappearing will be how he ends this fight, he will get the jump on her and cut her limb from limb and she does not have the gear(armor) to stop that onslaught. Shiva does not have any defense for Daken's disappearing. Daken has a tendency to make his presence know so he will probably show himself before he disappears but that will not change that she will not be able to see him once he does use his ability/technique.

I believe i have explained how this is NOT going to work. Once she sees him she will be able to follow his movements and he wont be able to duck out of her sight.

Strategy 2: This is a random encounter which means Shiva has no idea about Daken's abilities which means she does not know about his healing. This works into Daken's advantage because in a fight with Shiva she will think she had badly injured or even killed him IF she hits him with her weapons, Daken can largely avoid them due to speed but if he gets hit by them he gains an advantage because she thinks he is vulnerable or that the fight is over but little does she know Daken has a healing factor. The strategy for Daken is to basically dodge or tank anything she throws his way and then go in for the kill.

She has fought superhumans before. And she would probably notice him healing wounds after she cuts him with a thrown weapon or he kusarigama, And tanking katana slashes with no metal skeleton is not a smart idea even for a superhealer. I see her cutting off his claws and breaking his neck if he somehow managed to take away her weapons, which i doubt would happen

I see Daken going for Strategy one more so than 2. Basically Shiva is outclassed here. Daken is faster and he has abilities that she can't defend.

Shiva is far from outclassed, body reading would stop his magic act and cutting him up into bite sized chunks would help him a lot.

@sirfizzwhizzI have a question about tournaments on CV tho, do our characters know that they are in a tourney? And do they regain experience from past battles?

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#36 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid

You wanted to see some bullet timing? Here it is and for the record the dude is good, next scan shows how good he is

Literally every street leveler has bullet timing feats, not that impressive.

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Above are a few Feats of Daken bullet timing.

She has fought someone stealthier than Daken before. And his disappearing is not an ability it is just a skill. he cant use it before he sees her eyes so he can dodge the eye sight and her body reading means she knows where he will go before he goes there/ ducks out of her eyesight.

That person did not try and disappear on shiva, he was not trying to be stealthy. It does not matter that she fought him the situations are completely different and he never tried to use his stealth against shiva, thus it proves nothing. That feat does not do a thing to say she could see Daken.

Daken has used his disappearing technique on Spiderman, Deadpool and Wolverine. None of their reflexes were fast enough to register him moving or dodging their eyesight, even though Shiva can read body language I don't think she will be able to follow his movement. I don't think body reading will counter it. Daken will be using his pheromones on her as well and this works to alter her emotions and perception, Shiva won't be able to read body language well when her senses are so messed up.

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Above Daken is using his pheromones on Spiderman and Spidey can't properly use his eyesight and this coupled with Daken's disappearing technique makes Spiderman have fits. Shiva won't be able to counter the disappearing of Daken.

(you tried to say earlier that his pheromones won't work on Shiva because her face is covered but they worked on Spiderman whos face is covered so that point is moot)

As i said his disappearing doesnt work the way you imagine it to. It is not invisibility he LITERALLY just dodges eyesight, he has to see your eyes in orther to utilize it

I never said he goes invisible. It has to do with speed and most likely staying out of your opponents sight and he will utilize this on Shiva. Also the fact that Daken will be messing with Shiva with his pheromones with help him even further to use his disappearing technique as I have already shown.

She has fought people who are insanely fast before. Take a look at my Shadowdragon scans. Ok, superman was not as fast in those comics but was still greatly faster than humans. As far as ferocity goes she is quite up there with him. Here is a feat of strength and ruthlessness

Daken has fought insanely fast people as well.

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Daken is able to easily dodge attacks from Ares. Ares has caught missiles, tagged hermes, tag and KO Wolverine. Ares is fast and it is very impressive that Daken can dance around him.

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Daken is fast enough to tag Spiderman(kicks him) this was before he used his Pheromones on him. Also in a later page Spiderman says Daken is as fast as Wolverine.

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Above Daken outclasses his father, he dodges mutliple hits from Wolverine and tags him multiple times.

I would place Daken above Shiva in speed but even if they're on the same speed level Daken's pheromones will stop her from fighting to her full potential.

As long as she doesn't cut something off, Daken cannot regrow limbs.Here is an other scan of her effortlessly demolishing bullet timing enemies. Even more impressive is that Katana was slicing up a hailstorm of bullets instead of aim dodging :D Also pressure points could still incap him. Something went wrong as i was posting these scans so some of them are big even tho i tried to do the filmstrip.

Daken will not allow her to cut off his limbs, Daken has effortlessly dodged attacks from Wolverine.

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Dodging attacks will be made easier by her senses/emotions being distorted by Daken's pheromones.

Also pressure points could still incap him.

Pressure points aren't going to put down Daken and if they do it won't be for long. Daken will heal from them almost immediately.

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As it has been explained with Wolverine pressure points only work when they are held down, Shiva will not know to hold down the pressure point and if she hits Daken with a pressure point he will heal immediately.

I believe i have explained Shivas counter to disappearing earlier in this post.

I believe I have countered that earlier in this post.

It would boil down to bullet timing vs body reading, keep in mind Shiva can throw 20 shuriken with absolute precision at once which was shown when she killed 20 manbats for not learning fast enough.

Daken can dodge them and even if he gets caught with a few shuriken it will not matter, he will tank them.

Claws out from the start of the fight give Shiva and advantage, she wont be surprised by popping of the blades she didnt know existed.

That's not really an advantage knowing he has claws. Daken also still has the advantage of Shiva not knowing about his healing/pheromones/disappearing.

The lack of adamantium means she can slice through his bones with her katanas. And that she can the leopard blow to make a hole in his skull

She won't get to slice through his bones. As I have already said she won't see Daken, and Shiva won't be fighting to the best of her ability courtesy of Daken's pheromones.

I believe i have explained how this is NOT going to work. Once she sees him she will be able to follow his movements and he wont be able to duck out of her sight.

I explained above in this comment why that won't work...

Shiva is far from outclassed, body reading would stop his magic act and cutting him up into bite sized chunks would help him a lot.

Body reading won't counter Daken's disappearing technique as I have already explained and his pheromones will make sure of that. No chunks are going to be cut out of Daken.

Daken's advantages

  1. Disappearing, Shiva has no counter for this and Daken will use it to easily hit her.
  2. Pheromones, Daken will play with her emotions and make her disorientated just like he did to Spiderman. Shiva will not fight to the best of her ability and this is a major advantage for Daken.
  3. Healing, Daken can tank what she throws at him. Things you said Shiva would hit him with such as Shuriken and Pressure points won't work on Daken. I don't see her hitting him much or at all based on the first two advantages I stated.
  4. Sexiness! I mean cmon? How is Shiva going to go all out on such a super sexy psychopath?

Overall Daken just has too many advantages, his pheromones and disappearing are the main things that will win him the fight.

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#37 Edited by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenaughtytitan said:

@chimeroid

Literally every street leveler has bullet timing feats, not that impressive.

Wasnt supposed to be impressive, you just asked for more speed feats from her. And she is up there with the fastest.

Daken has used his disappearing technique on Spiderman, Deadpool and Wolverine. None of their reflexes were fast enough to register him moving or dodging their eyesight, even though Shiva can read body language I don't think she will be able to follow his movement. I don't think body reading will counter it. Daken will be using his pheromones on her as well and this works to alter her emotions and perception, Shiva won't be able to read body language well when her senses are so messed up.

Body reading WILL counter it, and the reason is very simple, even if those people have stronger senses than she does, she is the only one in the lot who can predict your next move, he wont be able to duck out of her site. Also the fight starts at 100ft i dont think his pheromones work at that distance anyhow. Disappearing is a moot point here.

It is not an ability, it is just him moving in a certain way, he even said that it isnt about speed. Read your own post, it is not about speed it is only about dodging eyesight, and body reading would simply be able to tell her where he is planning on going before he goes there.

Above Daken is using his pheromones on Spiderman and Spidey can't properly use his eyesight and this coupled with Daken's disappearing technique makes Spiderman have fits. Shiva won't be able to counter the disappearing of Daken.

(you tried to say earlier that his pheromones won't work on Shiva because her face is covered but they worked on Spiderman whos face is covered so that point is moot)

I didnt try to say that, i was trying to ask about it, since i didn't know. Anyhow, this fight wont last a lot at all.

.

Daken has fought insanely fast people as well.

Daken is able to easily dodge attacks from Ares. Ares has caught missiles, tagged hermes, tag and KO Wolverine. Ares is fast and it is very impressive that Daken can dance around him.

First off, my point of Shadowdragon scans was to prove that Dakens speed is nothing she isn't used to, since you stated he is too fast for her. If she manhandled the dude who was fast enough to dodge Superman she can keep up with a man who can dodge Ares. And Gods of marvel are written heavily inconsistently when it comes to speed. Ares is no faster than Herc or Thor, who are in turn no faster than Wolvie anyhow.

I would place Daken above Shiva in speed but even if they're on the same speed level Daken's pheromones will stop her from fighting to her full potential.

He is definitely faster than Shiva, she is peak and he is enhanced when it comes to speed, But he isnt faster than people she routinely beat. Also she is ruthless enough to go for the easy win, just like Daken she has no moral qualms and usually kills really quickly.

Daken will not allow her to cut off his limbs, Daken has effortlessly dodged attacks from Wolverine.

Being attacked by claws at a small distance is one, being attacked by a sword or kusarigama on a bigger distance is something else completely. No one she cut down wanted to die like that. Him not allowing it wont make a difference

Dodging attacks will be made easier by her senses/emotions being distorted by Daken's pheromones.

If it lasts long enough for his pheromones to kick in.

Pressure points aren't going to put down Daken and if they do it won't be for long. Daken will heal from them almost immediately.

She only needs a split second to snap his neck once he is incaped. Anyhow. Pressure points are just there to be a backup plan.

I believe i have explained Shivas counter to disappearing earlier in this post.

I believe I have countered that earlier in this post.

You actually have not. You just repeated your argument from before. That hardly stands as a counter. So far you didn't even try to provide a counter to her body reading

It would boil down to bullet timing vs body reading, keep in mind Shiva can throw 20 shuriken with absolute precision at once which was shown when she killed 20 manbats for not learning fast enough.

Daken can dodge them and even if he gets caught with a few shuriken it will not matter, he will tank them.

It matters, that is the way she would learn of his healing factor. And as i said, his speed is awesome but 20 shuriken all aimed at places he wanted to go to. One would at least graze him.

That's not really an advantage knowing he has claws. Daken also still has the advantage of Shiva not knowing about his healing/pheromones/disappearing.

That is what shurikens are for

She won't get to slice through his bones. As I have already said she won't see Daken, and Shiva won't be fighting to the best of her ability courtesy of Daken's pheromones.

Ok, you have to stop acting like Daken is literally invisible with that ability, She will see him, and she can see him during the fight as well.

Once she sees him she will be able to follow his movements and he wont be able to duck out of her sight.

I explained above in this comment why that won't work...

Except that you didnt you just said it has to do with speed and he has pheromones, you are starting to go broken record on me. :D still waiting for that counter tho

Daken's advantages

  1. Disappearing, Shiva has no counter for this and Daken will use it to easily hit her.
  2. Pheromones, Daken will play with her emotions and make her disorientated just like he did to Spiderman. Shiva will not fight to the best of her ability and this is a major advantage for Daken.
  3. Healing, Daken can tank what she throws at him. Things you said Shiva would hit him with such as Shuriken and Pressure points won't work on Daken. I don't see her hitting him much or at all based on the first two advantages I stated.
  4. Sexiness! I mean cmon? How is Shiva going to go all out on such a super sexy psychopath?

Overall Daken just has too many advantages, his pheromones and disappearing are the main things that will win him the fight.

And for the final piece, She has counter for disappearing, i have explained it thoroughly, you are yet to find an argument that is not "Shiva has no counter for this" or "he has done it to other people" body reading stops unexpected moves. and that is all his magic act is.

2. He could play with her emotions, but that would need time to kick in. Time he wont have.

3. Both shuriken and pressure points work on him. Shuriken hurt and show he has healing factor. Pressure points would put him down for at least half a second which would be enough for her to rip his guts out and cut his head off.

4. Shiva is hotter

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#38 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting time.

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#39 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Did not have time to finish my last post but I am cool with votes being opened now....

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#40 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Did not have time to finish my last post but I am cool with votes being opened now....

I can wait one more day, your really the only match that needs votes :/

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#41 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: As far as i'm concerned let them vote. I dont want to be holding the tourney back.

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#42 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Nah open it, I have spanish that is due or I will fail the class. Don't give me an excuse not to do my spanish XD

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#43 Posted by magnablue (10498 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by magnablue (10498 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Just more info in general. Better arguments

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#47 Posted by Chimeroid (9176 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: Ok. That is your opinion and i appreciate it.

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#48 Posted by magnablue (10498 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by TheBournePoster (2988 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio