Characters:
Perks:
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Tag me for this one too. Both are my boys and both using classic comic street characters. I like this. You both better finish this match.
The Ragin' Cajun
A charming master thief and skilled martial artist who became a member of the X-Men, Gambit possesses the mutant ability to change potential energy in inanimate objects into kinetic energy which causes them to explode. His signature move is throwing kinetically-charged playing cards at his opponents.
Gambit is Remy LeBeau, a mutant and member of the X-Men and New Orleans Thieves Guild. The Guild leader, Jean Luc LeBeau, adopted and raised Gambit, and Gambit was running heists and embroiled in Guild politics from a very young age.
Gambit was eventually exiled, and took a job from Mr. Sinister in return for help controlling his powers. Later, Gambit ran into a de-aged Storm working as a thief in Cairo and began working with her. Storm in turn connected him to the X-Men, with whom he quickly found himself battling alongside.
Gambit has since been an on-and-off member of the X-Men. He has been on countless adventures with the X-Men and has developed a close and often romantic relationship with Rogue. However, his history and habit of walking on the shady side of the law and mutant affairs has sometimes ostracized him from the X-Men.
Gambit can increase or accelerate the kinetic energy of an object by touching it. Increasing an object's kinetic energy, or "charging" it, has different applications, but Gambit most often charges throwing cards and other inanimate objects so that they explode. Gambit's innate biokinetic energy also grants passive powers such as him superhuman agility, telepathic resistance, and charm.
Wolverine
X-23 was the product of an offshoot of the Canadian Weapon X program, whose mission was to create a perfect clone of the original Weapon X, Wolverine. The only available DNA of Wolverine was too damaged to create a perfect clone, so instead of proceeding with the project as intended the damaged Y chromosome was discarded and the X chromosome was duplicated, creating a female clone. She was carried in the womb of the scientist who created the clone, and who eventually grew feelings of affection towards her, unlike the others who saw here merely as a weapon. X-23 was given strict training and conditioning from a very early age and was treated with radiation to accelerate the development of her mutant abilities. Additionally a chemical trigger was developed which would send X-23 into a murderous frenzy when her heightened senses detected it. All of this at such a young age caused X to develop a dangerous self-harming habit, which was encouraged by the project's director who hated X because Wolverine had killed his father. When she reached age 11, she was sold out to various high bidders as an extremely effective assassin. Eventually her mother, realizing that what they were doing was evil, gave her one final mission to destroy the facility that had created her. She completed this task, but during the process her mother was splashed with the trigger scent,causing X to kill her as well. Before passing away, her mother gave X her real name: Laura Kinney. Eventually she was found by the X-Men and joined a few of their teams, most notably X-Force. Laura has spent most of her life in an almost emotionless, robotic state, doing very little besides killing, but in recent years she has worked to assimilate into society. Most recently she adopted the mantle of Wolverine after the death of the original and carries on his legacy as the best there is at what she does.
X-23 has all the mutant abilities of the original Wolverine. This includes highly advanced senses which let her detect and track down enemies with ease, razor sharp claws that extend from her limbs, and a "healing factor" which lets her quickly regenerate from mortal wounds. Unlike the original Wolverine she has only 2 claws on each hand, and a single claw on each of her feet, and while Wolverine's entire skeleton was replaced with indestructible adamantium metal, only her claws are adamantium. In addition to her superhuman abilities she is physically at peak human levels and very highly trained.
I'll start by explaining why those purchased perks matters and how I pretend to use them in this fight.
In the strategic landscape we're navigating, my team's approach is nothing short of a tactical masterpiece. The moment the battle commences, we launch a coordinated assault with ruthless precision. Gambit, our ace in the hole, is elevated to new heights by the Super Soldier Serum. This serum, renowned for its transformative effects, catapults Gambit's already impressive abilities to a level previously unseen. His superhuman agility, an innate gift from his mutant powers, now operates at a degree of prowess that surpasses all expectations.
At the forefront of our offensive arsenal stands X-23, a true embodiment of lethality. Engineered and honed as Weapon X, she is purpose-built for this very mission - to eliminate our adversaries with ruthless efficiency. However, we've upped the ante by endowing her with Nightcrawler's Teleportation. This enhancement elevates her combat prowess to a terrifying zenith. With the power to instantaneously traverse the battlefield, she becomes an even more formidable force, seamlessly tracking down and eliminating her targets with an unmatched combination of speed, precision, and brutal finesse.
As the battle unfolds, the fusion of Gambit's amplified powers and X-23's augmented abilities ensures that our team strikes swiftly and decisively, leaving little chance for our opponents to react or mount a defense. This dynamic duo is primed to seize victory, employing a synergy of skills that is both awe-inspiring and, for our adversaries, downright terrifying.
The lethality of my strategy is further accentuated by the synergy between Gambit's firepower and X-23's sharp claws. While Gambit slays with his energy-charged explosives, turning the battlefield into controlled chaos, X-23 moves through the shadows, precisely selecting targets and slicing her opponents. This relentless alliance of ranged destruction and melee elimination makes my team virtually unstoppable, demonstrating that our strategy is a force to be feared and respected.
The one-hit strategy has deep roots in military history and is exemplified by the concept of the Blitzkrieg, employed with great success by German forces during World War II. In this context, Blitzkrieg involved rapid, coordinated attacks, combining ground, air, and sometimes armored forces to surprise and overwhelm enemy defenses. This type of strategy highlighted the importance of an aggressive offensive approach, capable of unbalancing the opponent from the beginning of the conflict. By doing so, attacking forces could exploit the resulting disorder, advancing quickly and gaining decisive advantages on the battlefield. This approach underscores the importance of initiative and surprise as key elements in many combat scenarios.
In a quirky setting like an Old West town, where opponents can be hidden in narrow alleys and abandoned buildings, X-23's super senses prove to be a formidable advantage. This extraordinary ability allows her to perceive details imperceptible to an ordinary human being, from the subtle sound of an uneven footfall in the dust to the rustle of a cloak hidden in the shadows. Her keen senses, honed by years of training and merging with Nightcrawler's Teleportation ability, make her a relentless hunter capable of tracking and identifying foes from afar. Even in a challenging environment like a Wild West town, where the elements of surprise and ambush are rife, the X-23's ability to detect hidden threats and strategically position itself is an asset that ensures our tactical advantage.
In addition, her super senses give her an almost supernatural understanding of her surroundings, allowing her to anticipate enemy movements and effectively ambush her enemies. In a confrontation that demands adaptability and speed to deal with engagements in varied and unpredictable terrains, the ability to track and react with agility makes X-23 an indomitable force, solidifying our strategy of attack with withering and ensuring that our adversaries are constantly at a disadvantage.
Gambit's destructive power, which allows him to channel kinetic energy to create devastating explosions, plays a key role in the strategy of this fight. Its ability to generate explosions out of thin air not only provides a highly effective means of attack, it also becomes a versatile tool for creating distractions and disorienting the opposing team. From the moment the battle begins, Gambit's ability to unleash unpredictable explosions keeps opponents on their toes, forcing them to constantly defend themselves. This creates significant psychological pressure, causing the opposing team to be in defense mode from the start, which in turn robs them of their initiative and ability to mount an effective attack.
Furthermore, Gambit's determination to fight to the death in this battle makes him even more dangerous than usual. His willingness to wield his power lethally makes him an imminent and relentless threat, capable of imposing a considerable tactical advantage. This means that opponents have to deal not only with devastating explosions, but also with an opponent who will not hesitate to use his full destructive potential to achieve victory at any cost. In short, Gambit's combination of firepower and deadly determination creates a lethal synergy that is a formidable force in this matchup.
This powerful strategic dynamism will be made possible thanks to a "scout" movement orchestrated by X-23. Utilizing her extraordinary abilities with super-senses and Nightcrawler's newly acquired power of teleportation, she will be able to track opponents from a distance with extreme precision, while remaining hidden and inaccessible. Thus, X-23 will be the spearhead of our tactical intelligence, identifying the enemy presence and transmitting critical information to Gambit, allowing it to anticipate adversary actions and maximize the impact of its explosions, guaranteeing an invaluable tactical advantage from the early stages. of the battle.
In the face of immense offensive strength, the opposing team will face an insurmountable struggle. With no means of ignoring Gambit's explosive effects and unable to escape X-23's sharp and deadly claws, opponents will inevitably succumb one by one. Our combined strategy, driven by precise coordination and destructive power, will create unsustainable pressure, forcing opponents to surrender to the superiority of my ruthless tactics.
Scans & Source Material:
Uncanny X-Men / Xtreme X-Men / Gambit v1 / Essential X-Men / Web of Spider-Man v1 #113
Wolverine / X-Men Deluxe / X-Men Extra / All-New Wolverine / X-Force / Astonishing X-Men
X-23 Vol 1 Issue #04) Laura is able to track down Megan and her kidnapper by getting her scent from Megan's room:
(All New Wolverine Issue #02) Laura is able to track Gabby by scent after she escapes Laura's apartment and flees to the sewers:
(All New Wolverine Issue #02) Laura is able to hear and smell that they wore heavy boots, were heavily armed, and carried gunpowder:
(All New Wolverine Issue #07) Laura is able to track down a squirrel by getting his scent from an acorn:
(Target X Issue #01) Laura's claws allow her to slice through armored men's helmets with ease:
(All New Wolverine Issue #01) Laura is able to crash a drone by slashing at it with her claws:
(All New Wolverine Issue #02) Thanks to her wrist claw, Laura is able to easily escape being handcuffed:
(All New Wolverine Issue #03) Laura's claws cut a steering wheel out of a jeep:
(All New X-Men Vol. 2 Issue #02) Laura slices up a car's tires at it is racing towards her, which causes it to flip end over end:
* Disclaimer: X-23 feats from TheVivas RT
Tag
taggin' the distinguished gentlemen as requested
@kingcrimson: @higorm: My post is almost done, will be up tomorrow
@geekryan: NP, you got 24hrs.
Typhoid Mary is a mutant with the powers of telekinesis, telepathy, and pyrokinesis. She is also a very skilled fighter, regularly fighting Daredevil, as well as having fought Elektra, Deadpool, Taskmaster, Wolverine, Psylocke, etc. Her standard gear includes two katanas.
Strength
1) Kicks the head off a statue
2) KOs 3 thugs by smashing their heads together
3) Knocks Jessica Jones back, hard enough to crack a windshield
4) Smashes a concrete wall with a kick
Durability
1) Takes a kick to the face from Iron Fist
2) Completely no-sells a punch to the face by a thug
3) Tells Kingpin "Not bad" after getting backhand-punched by him
4) Tanks a kick to the face by Deadpool, although it draws blood
Speed
1) Deflects metal projectiles with her sword
2) Uses her telekinesis fast enough to stop tranquilizer darts from hitting her
3) Reacts to Elektra's sai toss, inches away from her face
Telekinesis
Mary pretty much never uses her telekinesis directly against her opponent. Instead, she often uses it to manipulate smaller objects in the area or to armour her body with metal.
1) Removes Ghost Rider's chain from around her neck
2) Collects metal pieces in the area to form body armour
3) Impales Wolverine with an object
4-5) Launches a barrage of metal projectiles
6) Pulls her sword back to her to decapitate a vampire
7) Manipulates a bunch of wires into Wolverine's body
Telepathy
1-2) Compels a man to shoot himself in the head
3) With a touch, absorbs information and KOs a man
4) Prevents the people/guards from seeing her and then puts 2 of the guards to sleep with a command
5) Manipulates Daredevil to look at her and then sit with her
Pyrokinesis
This is Mary's best and most used power. I will preface this section by saying that the host has forbidden Mary from directly setting opponents on fire, as it is unavoidable and unblockable. However, she is still allowed to project fire and set opponent's gear/weapons on fire.
Here are some examples of Mary setting things on fire:
1-2) Combusts Punisher's guns
3) Makes a gun explode then sets a man on fire
4) Simultaneously lifts a manhole cover and burns it
5-6) Surrounds Black Panther with a circle of fire and then sets the garage/car on fire, resulting in the car exploding
7) Sets a double-decker bus on fire
8) Surrounds herself in fire
9) Puts herself on fire and sets fire to someone when they touch her (note: she is immune to her own fire)
And here are some examples of Mary projecting fire:
1) Forces back her opponents with a huge blast of fire from a garbage truck
2) Projects flames from both her hands
3) Blasts a large alien eagle
4) Burns all the men in a hallway
5) Shoots flames at Daredevil, which burns his jacket and starts to burn him
Misc.
1-3) Due to a combination of her alternate personalities and telepathy, Daredevil is unable to detect her with his radar sense and enhanced senses. In fact, it actively messes with his radar sense.
4) Her sword is strong enough to impale Wolverine through the neck
Dani Moonstar has the psychic powers of telepathy and illusion-casting.
In terms of telepathy, she can do most of the basic stuff like mind reading, memory manipulation, etc. However, there are two aspects of her powers that make her very useful in combat: illusions and psionic arrows.
Dani's primary power allows her to create illusions drawn from an opponent's deepest fears:
1) Distracts Cyclops with an illusion
2) Projects separate illusions on three guys
3) Summons an illusion of Hela against a group of Asgardian soldiers
What makes her illusions unique is that she normally projects them physically, so that everyone can see them. However, she can also project the illusion in an opponent's mind OR make them solid:
1) Creates a car
2) Summons a shield
3) Creates functional scuba-diving gear for herself and others
4) Conjures fire and then chains
The downside of this is that she can only maintain one solid illusion at a time.
Lastly, her psionic arrows, which travel like regular arrows and affect physical objects, or disrupt a target's nervous system upon contact to cause a variety of effects such as physical pain, emotional pain, fear, paralysis, etc.
1) Disarms Selene of her staff
2) KO's Boom Boom via her painful memories
3) Stuns Warpath
4) Paralyzes two opponents
5) Bypasses an energy field and KOs her target
6) Goes through Cannonball's force field and takes him out
7) Passes through physical armor and can only be blocked via psychic shielding
Dani's physicals are decent. She is strong enough to flip someone into the air and send them crashing into two other people, as well as knock back two aliens with one kick. She is durable enough to take an explosion that sends her flying and causes her to land on her neck before getting back up, and fend off a strike from Wolfsbane before sending her flying with a palm strike. For speed, she is fast enough to acrobatically dodge energy blasts, flip through tranquilizer fire, and avoid projectiles fired from a robot.
She has also displayed exceptional skill in archery, hand-to-hand combat, tracking, and stealth.
Destiny has the power of precognition. Although she is blind, she is able to use her power to basically know where everyone around her is by "seeing" the immediate future, to the point that she can use a crossbow as a weapon. However, she doesn't really see the one "true" future, but can see the possible futures and which ones are most likely to happen. Despite that caveat, she tends to be pretty accurate, and the only things that disrupt her powers are people or events that affect time or probabilities. In terms of physicals, she is barely even peak human, but that won't matter...
As the rules state, precognition is limited to 5 seconds into the future, which is more than enough for this kind of battle.
Her precognition is good enough to anticipate incoming attacks:
1) Tells Pyro where to direct his attack against Wonder Man
2) Sees a thrown bottle killing Mystique and pushes her out of the way in time
3-4) Anticipates Dazzler's attack and warns her team
With her power, she has a pretty good idea of what is happening within seconds:
1) Is aware of a threat outside
2) Knows that Kitty radioed the X-Men right as she phased through the floor
3) Says that the X-Men are above (in the sky) and will arrive soon
Destiny died and didn't really appear again until a few years ago. Here are some of her more recent feats:
1) Doesn't react when she is about to be attacked because she knows her attacker will be thrown away
2) Purposely misinforms Gambit of an opponent so that he misses and gets hit
3) Knows where Sinister will fire his gun in order to avoid the bullets
4) States that Sinister is about to kill Hope
5) Warns the Quiet Council about Sinister's attack in time, as well as tells them where Sinister is located
Veil's power is pretty simple: she can transform her body into a variety of gases. Some of the gases she has transformed into include: isoflurane, hydrogen chloride, ether, and ammonium carbonate. She has used her power to create knockout gas, smokescreens, and anti-hallucinogens. Her power allows her to "fly", sneak around, and pass through cracks. She has even used her power in lethal ways.
The following 3-minute compilation video shows Kitty Pryde's power of phasing/intangibility:
(https://youtu.be/73P1UHbwwZw?si=fCotV-xMUh73HwJN)
You can skip the last minute of the video as it involves Kitty's secondary power, which is irrelevant in this battle and will not be used.
Basically, Kitty is able to phase herself and others through solid matter. She has phased through floors, walls, people, missiles, shelves, and bank vault doors. She is able to phase into the ground in order to fall from great heights, and then phase back up. Lastly, she is able to phase people into the floor, like she did to Juggernaut by phasing his lower body into the floor to temporarily incapacitate him. When I asked the host if this is allowed, they replied with:
Phasing feet into ground sounds fine, but opens the door to stuff like phasing somebody completely into ground which I’m not cool with.
So phasing opponents' feet into the ground is allowed.
Perfect teamwork will allow my team to function like a well-oiled machine, being able to cooperate and coordinate without issue and ensuring they are always playing to each other's strengths and weaknesses.
Mind link adds to this, allowing my entire team to have constant and instant mental feedback with each other throughout the fight. The most important use for this though is Destiny's precognition, as it will allow my entire team to know what Destiny foresees, right as she sees it, therefore eliminating the need to verbally relay the information. Essentially, as long as Destiny is alive, my whole team becomes privy to the precognition.
This perk is somewhat redundant for this match since your two characters and two of mine (Dani and Destiny) have all been part of the X-Men, so they would already have basic knowledge on each other. However, this perk still benefits the rest of my team, who will be going into the battle knowing who they are facing and what they are capable of. X-23 and Gambit would not really know what Typhoid Mary and FOX Kitty Pryde are capable of, so there's a slight surprise factor in our favour.
Destiny's physicals are quite honestly shit and not even peak human, which is why I took this perk for her. It will provide her with Captain America-level physicals, which will ensure she isn't going to get one-shot by a stray pebble.
This RT for MCU Captain America outlines what he is capable of, and although he is below the likes of X-23 and Gambit, it's still good enough that Destiny isn't *just* a precog. Pretty decent durability to deal with Gambit's explosive cards, and some nice aim-dodging feats for speed.
I don't expect 6 SWAT Team Soldiers to be anything more than a distraction to the likes of X-23 and Gambit, but a distraction is exactly why I took them. It provides my team with 6 other targets for your team to attack, as well as being useful meat shields.
According to Wikipedia, this is what they typically come with:
The guns are pretty useless against X-23, and mostly useless against Gambit unless one of them manages to get in a lucky shot whilst he's distracted. The various grenades will be more useful in general, for crowd control.
Right off the bat, Kitty is going to grab hold of Destiny and start phasing at the first sign of danger. This will result in Destiny being untouchable by X-23 or Gambit, which means her 5 second glimpses into the future will be constant. Kitty will also have the option to phase herself and Destiny into the ground in order to confuse your team and allow them to reposition. It can also allow Kitty to drag X-23/Gambit's feet into the ground.
Three of the soldiers will stand in front of Kitty and Destiny to serve as additional protection/distractions, while the rest of my team goes on the offensive.
Gambit is going to have a rough time focusing on offence when he's being shot at by 3 soldiers. He isn't bulletproof, so one slip up will mean he gets shot by bullets or Dani's arrows. Veil can transform into a gas to 1) remain unharmed, and 2) surround Gambit/X-23 and either KO them, drug them, poison them, etc.
Typhoid Mary on the other hand, is going to focus on X-23, as she stands the best chance at doing so. Mary is surprisingly skilled, and though her physicals aren't on X-23's level, she is good enough to keep her busy for some time. Mary's main goal will be to set X-23 on fire, as this will throw X-23 off and tax her healing factor. From there, it would be a matter of Mary decapitating her with her sword, or Dani shooting a psionic arrow into her, or Veil gassing her to unconsciousness/death. While X-23 can very easily dodge arrows, it won't be so easy when she's on fire or has her feet phased into the ground. She also can't dodge Veil or do anything to harm her.
Typhoid Mary can also counter Gambit by setting his cards on fire before they are tossed or charged. She could also use her telekinesis to redirect the cards back at your team or yank Gambit's staff away.
Keep in mind that all of this will be happening with my team knowing what will occur 5 seconds into the future, curtesy of Destiny and the mind link.
As the only 5-pointer, she is obviously the biggest threat in this battle. Her physicals are top-notch, she is very skilled, she has one-shot capability via adamantium claws, and she has a ridiculous healing factor to keep on fighting. AND you gave her teleportation to boot. Yikes.
Mary is the only member of my team who can contend against her 1v1, and I will not deny that X-23 would win that fight. However, Mary can most certainly keep her busy for some time. Enough for the rest of my team to take care of Gambit. Once that happens, X-23 is going to be hard-pressed to avoid all the bullets, Mary, Veil's gas, and Dani's psionic arrows. Teleportation makes her more dangerous and mobile, but again, it is countered by Destiny's precognition as my team will know where she is going to teleport before it happens. With Mary and Dani, this could very well end up in a situation similar to this: https://youtu.be/uRAgk94kA84?si=3lRsvRo2iFHo5k9g&t=13...except with Mary stabbing X-23 through the head or Dani's arrow tagging her as she teleports in.
Her senses are great, but no part of my team's strategy can really be countered by X-23's senses. In fact, her enhanced sense of smell should make her even more vulnerable to Veil.
His physicals are around the same level as Dani and Mary, and he is out-skilled by Mary when it comes to CQC. If he gets set on fire, shot, or stabbed, it is seriously going to affect him. Having the MCU Super Soldier Serum won't make any difference, since Cap's physicals aren't enough to counter my team's offence, and amplifying Gambit's base physicals is completely unquantifiable. His explosive cards can cause a lot of damage and chaos, but my team will know in advance where he's tossing them. They can also be set on fire by Mary before he can toss them, or they can be telekinetically redirected by Mary as well. He can also easily be downed by Veil.
The morals off/bloodlusted perk is essentially wasted on X-23, as she is normally morals off as default. It benefits Gambit more since he can just spam-charge things to explode, but that is countered by Destiny and Mary as I already mentioned.
You mentioned X-23 moving through the shadows, but this is unrealistic considering: 1) our teams start within view each other, 2) precognition eliminates the stealth aspect, and 3) Mary + Dani's telepathy also eliminates the stealth aspect.
Gambit's destructive capabilities might be a concern, but that same level of destruction can backfire on X-23, so it's a double-edged sword.
@sirfizzwhizz: @professorrespect: @mr-yes: @higorm: @kingcrimson: My opener is up!
@sirfizzwhizz: @professorrespect: @mr-yes: @geekryan@kingcrimson
First i'd like to highlight two topics from the tournament rules:
I'm not saying you actually broke either of them, but I feel they must be included so the voters can analyze what was said calmly in accordance with what was stipulated in the rules.
Right off the bat, Kitty is going to grab hold of Destiny and start phasing at the first sign of danger. This will result in Destiny being untouchable by X-23 or Gambit, which means her 5 second glimpses into the future will be constant. Kitty will also have the option to phase herself and Destiny into the ground in order to confuse your team and allow them to reposition. It can also allow Kitty to drag X-23/Gambit's feet into the ground.
I'm not sure if the fact your team can phase each other for defensive purposes can translate to my team being somewhat confused since X-23 possess enhanced senses and teleportation so she is more than capable to keep track of your team at all times, regardless of their phasing since you can't phase forever and eventually will have to emerge. You might be able to try this routine with gambit but I don't think that would be allowed as per rules.
Three of the soldiers will stand in front of Kitty and Destiny to serve as additional protection/distractions, while the rest of my team goes on the offensive.
Unless you keep phasing them indefinitely these fodders will pose no threat to my team, any of my team members can easily deal with your soldiers either from a distance using Gambit's explosive power, or at close range where X-23 can get close and eliminate them with a swing of her lethal claws.
Gambit is going to have a rough time focusing on offence when he's being shot at by 3 soldiers. He isn't bulletproof, so one slip up will mean he gets shot by bullets or Dani's arrows. Veil can transform into a gas to 1) remain unharmed, and 2) surround Gambit/X-23 and either KO them, drug them, poison them, etc.
Gambit is way too fast and agile to be shot by regular soldiers, we are talking about someone who is very skilled on top of having superhuman agility. He often casually moves or flips around to evade bullets and other projectiles and was also able to deal with far more dangerous threat than random Swat soldiers, like when he avoided numerous volleys of gunfire from X-Cutioner moving convoy. In case of being attacke by Veil, X-23 can just teleport them away of the danger since her gas manifestantion isn't instantaneous and Laura can sense your presence from distance with her heightened senses which can be described almost as a primitive form of telepathy, detecting the motives and emotions of those around her.
Typhoid Mary on the other hand, is going to focus on X-23, as she stands the best chance at doing so. Mary is surprisingly skilled, and though her physicals aren't on X-23's level, she is good enough to keep her busy for some time. Mary's main goal will be to set X-23 on fire, as this will throw X-23 off and tax her healing factor. From there, it would be a matter of Mary decapitating her with her sword, or Dani shooting a psionic arrow into her, or Veil gassing her to unconsciousness/death. While X-23 can very easily dodge arrows, it won't be so easy when she's on fire or has her feet phased into the ground. She also can't dodge Veil or do anything to harm her.
I don't think that's gonna work, Laura can deal with fire just fine, in matter of fact she already dealth with it before. She can either ignore it thanks to her extremely impressive Pain Tolerance in in conjunction with her Accelerated Healing Factor or just use teleport to avoid it altogether.
Typhoid Mary can also counter Gambit by setting his cards on fire before they are tossed or charged. She could also use her telekinesis to redirect the cards back at your team or yank Gambit's staff away.
I'd like to see feats for this because I don't think she can be faster than Gambit, especially when he's Morals/Off bloodlusted. Not to mention that you said in your strategy that "Typhoid Mary on the other hand, is going to focus on X-23", which means she won't be focusing on Gambit. I mean, she will be hard pressed against X-23 alone imagine having to divide attention to another threat, this basically means Typhoid Mary is going down very fast in this fight.
Keep in mind that all of this will be happening with my team knowing what will occur 5 seconds into the future, curtesy of Destiny and the mind link.
IMHO 5 seconds isn't enough to predict someone who can teleport and also track you from distance via super senses.
You mentioned X-23 moving through the shadows, but this is unrealistic considering: 1) our teams start within view each other, 2) precognition eliminates the stealth aspect, and 3) Mary + Dani's telepathy also eliminates the stealth aspect.
Starting distance doesn't mean much for someone who can simply teleport. Precognition only get you so far, you said for yourself that Destiny precog isn't perfect, especially against someone with similar ability. Telepathy doesn't work on either of my teammates. Both possess innate telepathic resistance, and X-23 was trained in telepathic defense by both the X-Men and the Weapon X program.
I have strong convictions that your strategy is destined to crumble rapidly, primarily because none of your team members possess the requisite abilities to effectively contend with X-23. Their deficiency in both skill and damage output leaves them ill-equipped to permanently incapacitate her.
Her lethal proficiency with razor-sharp claws, coupled with her newfound ability to teleport, renders her an even more menacing adversary. Furthermore, her exceptional pain tolerance and regenerative healing factor make her a virtually unstoppable force, far beyond the scope of what your team can hope to handle effectively
Meanwhile, they must also grapple with the relentless onslaught caused by Gambit, who wreaks havoc from the very onset with his explosive powers, all while demonstrating superhuman agility that is virtually unparalleled.
While your team might initially benefit from phases and precognitive abilities, these advantages are not inexhaustible resources. Over an extended period, it becomes increasingly apparent that Laura is the more likely contender to remain standing when the dust finally settles.
First i'd like to highlight two topics from the tournament rules:
- Intangibility is allowed for defence only.
- Unblockable or unavoidable attacks are banned, period. I don’t want to hear it.
I'm not saying you actually broke either of them, but I feel they must be included so the voters can analyze what was said calmly in accordance with what was stipulated in the rules.
I had cleared everything and everyone with the host after linking RTs/posts. The host had refused one character I requested and said no to Typhoid Mary being allowed to directly set opponents on fire, but had no issue with the rest of my team.
On the sign-up thread, I asked the host about phasing feet into the ground, since I knew his issue with phasing was phase-killing hax.
"Phasing feet into ground sounds fine, but opens the door to stuff like phasing somebody completely into ground which I'm not cool with."
Kitty phasing opponent's feet into the ground is the only thing I mentioned in my opener, and she has never used it to kill someone. Regardless, even if we disallow it, it's not like it was a major factor for my team winning.
I'm not sure if the fact your team can phase each other for defensive purposes can translate to my team being somewhat confused since X-23 possess enhanced senses and teleportation so she is more than capable to keep track of your team at all times, regardless of their phasing since you can't phase forever and eventually will have to emerge. You might be able to try this routine with gambit but I don't think that would be allowed as per rules.
Just to clear two things:
1) The "confusion" I mentioned was in reference to Kitty phasing herself and Destiny into the ground and appearing elsewhere. X-23 can't teleport into the ground like that, nor can she even tag them if she could do so.
2) Kitty wouldn't need to phase forever, just long enough to to win the fight ;) Plus, once Gambit is down, she can take breaks while X-23 is occupied and phase back in time, given Destiny will have a 5-second heads up.
There's also nothing to suggest that X-23 could use her enhanced senses to detect Kitty/Destiny while they are phased, especially if they are phased into the ground.
Unless you keep phasing them indefinitely these fodders will pose no threat to my team, any of my team members can easily deal with your soldiers either from a distance using Gambit's explosive power, or at close range where X-23 can get close and eliminate them with a swing of her lethal claws.
It was never my intention to phase the soldiers, just Destiny. I have no doubt that my soldiers would get wrecked by Gambit or X-23, which is why I made it very clear in my opener that they are to serve as distractions and obstacles. However, if they aren't taken out right away, they will still be adding pressure to your team by constantly shooting at them.
Gambit is way too fast and agile to be shot by regular soldiers, we are talking about someone who is very skilled on top of having superhuman agility. He often casually moves or flips around to evade bullets and other projectiles and was also able to deal with far more dangerous threat than random Swat soldiers, like when he avoided numerous volleys of gunfire from X-Cutioner moving convoy.
I agree that he can definitely avoid their gunfire....assuming he isn't also dealing with Dani, Veil, and/or Mary at the same time. In that case, with multiple opponents, he will be hard pressed to dodge everything.
In case of being attacked by Veil, X-23 can just teleport them away of the danger since her gas manifestantion isn't instantaneous and Laura can sense your presence from distance with her heightened senses which can be described almost as a primitive form of telepathy, detecting the motives and emotions of those around her.
True, but that would mean having X-23 go on the defensive to save Gambit, and putting them both at risk to Veil's gas. Furthermore, Destiny's precognition will let her and my team know if that would happen, when it would happen, and where X-23 would teleport to. That makes it very easy for my team to counter. Veil would only need a couple of seconds to down Gambit, since he has no way to counter her or harm her.
I don't think that's gonna work, Laura can deal with fire just fine, in matter of fact she already dealth with it before. She can either ignore it thanks to her extremely impressive Pain Tolerance in in conjunction with her Accelerated Healing Factor or just use teleport to avoid it altogether.
X-23 has very impressive pain tolerance and regeneration, and I don't doubt that at all since I'm very familiar with her capabilities. However, being set on fire will 1) tax her healing factor, and 2) impair her senses. This would make it harder for her to avoid being decapitated by Mary or shot with Dani's psionic arrows.
I'd like to see feats for this because I don't think she can be faster than Gambit, especially when he's Morals/Off bloodlusted. Not to mention that you said in your strategy that"Typhoid Mary on the other hand, is going to focus on X-23",which means she won't be focusing on Gambit. I mean, she will be hard pressed against X-23 alone imagine having to divide attention to another threat, this basically means Typhoid Mary is going down very fast in this fight.
Her powers activate with her thoughts, and that goes for her telekinesis and her pyrokinesis. Gambit doesn't tend to charge and throw all his cards at once; at most, he tosses a few at a time. Even if bloodlusted, I don't see him charging and throwing all his cards at once. Mary can redirect the ones he throws, and she is certainly fast enough to do so since Gambit's charged projectiles aren't faster than arrows or bullets. She can then burn his deck of cards, and the pyrokinesis section of my opener shows feats of Mary combusting things from range.
For good measure though:
Reacts to tranquilizer darts and stops them with her TK.
Reacts to Elektra's sai toss, stops it with her TK, sets it on fire, and then tosses it back to Elektra.
Yes, I did say that Mary would focus on X-23, but if Gambit is targeting her then she is obviously going to defend herself. Keep in mind that thanks to Destiny and since Dani and Destiny know of Gambit, dealing with his main form of offence is a very logical thing to do.
1) Destiny looks into the future and sees Gambit will target Mary
2) Due to the mind link, Mary becomes aware of this in the same moment
3) She can then TK his cards or set them on fire
IMHO 5 seconds isn't enough to predict someone who can teleport and also track you from distance via super senses.
Five seconds is a lot of time in a battle. So much can happen in those few seconds, and my team will know what things will happen in advance and be able to deal with them. If X-23 and Mary are engaged in a 1v1, Mary will know exactly where/when X-23 will teleport, giving her a massive advantage. Tracking from a distance via enhanced senses is irrelevant since my team will never really be at a distance from X-23 and it isn't useful in combat.
Starting distance doesn't mean much for someone who can simply teleport. Precognition only get you so far, you said for yourself that Destiny precog isn't perfect, especially against someone with similar ability. Telepathy doesn't work on either of my teammates. Both possess innate telepathic resistance,and X-23 was trained in telepathic defense by both the X-Men and the Weapon X program.
I never mentioned starting distance, nor did I say that Destiny's precognition isn't perfect. She has almost always been accurate, and the few times she wasn't involved long term visions or shenanigans involving timelines, probabilities, alternate realities, etc. For short term precognition and without PIS, Destiny is always accurate. X-23's enhanced senses are NOWHERE near being similar to Destiny's precognition, and it won't be as reliable in a battle involving 13 people AND while she is constantly fighting.
As for telepathy, both X-23 and Gambit have been affected by it on multiple occasions. Their psychic defences are pretty inconsistent. Regardless, even if Dani/Mary's telepathy is ineffective against them, Destiny still hard counters any attempts at stealth.
I have strong convictions that your strategy is destined to crumble rapidly, primarily because none of your team members possess the requisite abilities to effectively contend with X-23. Their deficiency in both skill and damage output leaves them ill-equipped to permanently incapacitate her.
Her lethal proficiency with razor-sharp claws, coupled with her newfound ability to teleport, renders her an even more menacing adversary. Furthermore, her exceptional pain tolerance and regenerative healing factor make her a virtually unstoppable force, far beyond the scope of what your team can hope to handle effectively
I very much disagree. Mary, with the help of Destiny's 5-second precognition, is more than enough to contend against X-23. Heck, I would even go so far as to say that Mary can maybe even beat X-23 due to this advantage. She has the skill, her sword can stab through Wolverine, and her pyrokinesis can tax X-23's healing factor and impair her senses to an extent. And don't forget that this is a very likely scenario, or simply getting tagged by one of Dani's psionic arrows.
Meanwhile, they must also grapple with the relentless onslaught caused by Gambit, who wreaks havoc from the very onset with his explosive powers, all while demonstrating superhuman agility that is virtually unparalleled.
Veil alone is enough to deal with Gambit, and Dani just needs to tag him once in order to down him. If need be, Mary can use her telekinesis and/or pyrokinesis to remove his cards, i.e. his primary form of offence. Without that, he's stuck with his staff and whatever is in the environment.
While your team might initially benefit from phases and precognitive abilities, these advantages are not inexhaustible resources. Over an extended period, it becomes increasingly apparent that Laura is the more likely contender to remain standing when the dust finally settles.
They aren't inexhaustible, sure, but basic knowledge + mind link + perfect teamwork means that my team won't need more than a few seconds to deal with Gambit, and then X-23 is alone and goes down shortly after. All well before Kitty gets exhausted and can no longer phase.
Even in the worst case scenario that Kitty gets tired, unphased, and gets killed...Destiny can still use her Super Soldier physicals + precognition to evade X-23 while Veil, Dani, and Mary 3v1 her. If we say that Destiny goes down too, X-23 isn't dealing with Mary + Dani + Veil all at once.
In terms of an actual strategy...your team doesn't really have one. It's basically just a teleporting and angry X-23 going in, with Gambit sticking back to fire off his charged cards. These things would be very threatening, if not for my team's composition and strategy. To review what that entails:
My strategy is more comprehensive, and although it does rely on several factors, I have accounted for any counters. Your team is vastly outnumbered, and I don't anticipate Gambit lasting more than a few seconds. From there, X-23 is going to get overwhelmed and either get decapitated by Mary or downed by Dani's psionic arrows.
@sirfizzwhizz:@professorrespect:@mr-yes:@kingcrimson
Second post is up!
@kingcrimson: is there a post limit for each of us? I forgot to ask and didn't see in the general rules..
@higorm: minimum 3, but as long as you aren’t holding up moving onto the following round you can do as many as you like.
@kingcrimson: okay, thanks.
Rules/Limitations
I understood the rulings and stipulations regarding the phasing aspect, but I'm still confused as to wether Mary Tyfoid can or cannot set the enemy on fire, because from what you showed it seems she can't directly set opponents on fire, only weapons and gear. I bring this up because in your strategy you specifically said "Mary's main goal will be to set X-23 on fire". The way I see it, this completely contradicts everything you just presented as proof that everything is ok with your team regarding the use of powers.
>> Moving on to the actual debate..
There's also nothing to suggest that X-23 could use her enhanced senses to detect Kitty/Destiny while they are phased, especially if they are phased into the ground.
I strongly believe she would still detect your team even while phased since you can't just shut your scent off. Even behind walls or whatever your team's scent would still be present into the battlefield, thus allowing X-23 senses to pick it up. Next scans shows how far her scent can go even if the target is somewhat "blocked" or hidden behind a structure:
I agree that he can definitely avoid their gunfire....assuming he isn't also dealing with Dani, Veil, and/or Mary at the same time. In that case, with multiple opponents, he will be hard pressed to dodge everything.
Gambit is more than capable of dodging multiple attacks as already proven, but the thing is that it's not him who is being pressed to dodge attacks but your team since my team is on full offensive mode from the start. I don't see your team having the time to put pressure on him while also being bombed out of existance.
True, but that would mean having X-23 go on the defensive to save Gambit, and putting them both at risk to Veil's gas. Furthermore, Destiny's precognition will let her and my team know if that would happen, when it would happen, and where X-23 would teleport to. That makes it very easy for my team to counter. Veil would only need a couple of seconds to down Gambit, since he has no way to counter her or harm her.
It's understandable that someone might argue that 5 seconds of premonition could offer a significant advantage in combat, but it's important to remember that when it comes to dealing with an opponent like X-23, this advantage can be considerably limited.
Firstly, although premonition can provide advance insight into X-23's immediate movements, it does not necessarily mean that it will be possible to predict all of his actions. Her ability to teleport and use her heightened senses to guide herself make her highly unpredictable and capable of changing tactics instantly.
Additionally, Gambit's preternatural agility and ability to wreak explosive havoc early on can create enough chaos and disorder to make accurate premonitions difficult to interpret. In a chaotic combat environment, 5 seconds may not be enough to adequately react to all the variables at play. It's also important to consider that X-23 herself can use her premonition to anticipate her team's movements, potentially nullifying any advantage premonitions might offer.
So while premonition is a valuable skill, it's critical to recognize that facing opponents as versatile as X-23 and Gambit requires much more than just predicting moves. You need a solid strategic plan and a team capable of adapting quickly to changing situations, and I strongly believe your team doesn't have what it takes to properly deliver such task.
To corroborate what I said with actual "evidence", X-23 was able to detect which drug was used to poison Rahne from a distance:
Veil is going to be the easiest target to spot from a distance to avoid her gas based attacks.
X-23 has very impressive pain tolerance and regeneration, and I don't doubt that at all since I'm very familiar with her capabilities. However, being set on fire will 1) tax her healing factor, and 2) impair her senses. This would make it harder for her to avoid being decapitated by Mary or shot with Dani's psionic arrows.
Again with the whole set of fire routine, I'll directly ask @kingsom if you can or cannot use this kind of attack. Aside from this matter, I don't see the relation of being impaired. She can always teleport away from danger if she deems necessary, not to mention that I believe your team won't have time to enforce such strategy from what my team will be doing against you from the start.
Her powers activate with her thoughts, and that goes for her telekinesis and her pyrokinesis. Gambit doesn't tend to charge and throw all his cards at once; at most, he tosses a few at a time. Even if bloodlusted, I don't see him charging and throwing all his cards at once. Mary can redirect the ones he throws, and she is certainly fast enough to do so since Gambit's charged projectiles aren't faster than arrows or bullets. She can then burn his deck of cards, and the pyrokinesis section of my opener shows feats of Mary combusting things from range.
I understand your perspective on Mary Tyfoid's powers and her ability to potentially counter Gambit's attacks. It's indeed true that Mary's telekinetic and pyrokinetic abilities are activated by her thoughts, giving her a level of control that can be highly advantageous.
However, it's important to consider the nuances of this confrontation. While Gambit may not always charge and throw all his cards at once, his combat experience has shown that he can adapt his strategy depending on the situation. In a high-stakes battle, especially if he recognizes the threat posed by Mary, Gambit could conceivably choose to unleash a barrage of charged projectiles in rapid succession, overwhelming her ability to redirect them all effectively.
Furthermore, Gambit's cards are not just ordinary projectiles; they explode on impact, creating an additional layer of complexity in redirecting them. Even if Mary manages to redirect some, the explosive nature of the cards could still pose a danger to her.
Additionally, Gambit's agility and reflexes should not be underestimated. He possesses superhuman reflexes and agility, which could allow him to adapt quickly to Mary's attempts to redirect his attacks. While Mary's pyrokinetic abilities are formidable, Gambit is known for his resilience and resourcefulness in combat. He might find ways to counter her pyrokinesis or create distractions to gain the upper hand.
Yes, I did say that Mary would focus on X-23, but if Gambit is targeting her then she is obviously going to defend herself. Keep in mind that thanks to Destiny and since Dani and Destiny know of Gambit, dealing with his main form of offence is a very logical thing to do.
I acknowledge your point regarding Mary Tyfoid focusing on X-23 and the logical inclination for her to defend herself when targeted by Gambit. However, it's crucial to reiterate that the dynamics of a battle are not solely determined by one side, and actions have consequences, particularly when you have someone like X-23 with teleportation capabilities on the battlefield.
While Mary's instinct to defend herself is entirely reasonable, it's essential to consider the potential repercussions of shifting focus in a high-intensity combat situation. X-23's teleportation adds a significant element of unpredictability to the battle, making it challenging for any opponent to freely change targets without being exposed to counterattacks.
Gambit, renowned for his tactical prowess, would undoubtedly recognize the threat posed by Mary and adapt his strategy accordingly. If he perceives a shift in her focus towards him, he might seize the opportunity to exploit vulnerabilities elsewhere or modify his approach to minimize the threat.
Moreover, Destiny and Dani's awareness of Gambit's abilities should indeed inform their decisions. However, even with this knowledge, the fluid nature of combat and the presence of X-23's teleportation can make it difficult to anticipate every move and effectively neutralize Gambit's main offensive tactics.
In summary, while it's indeed rational to address Gambit's primary form of offense, it's essential to consider that the strategies presented suggest that my team should proactively shape the course of the battle. Both Gambit and X-23 possess potent offensive capabilities right from the outset, and it's strategically sound to capitalize on their latent offensive potential.
Furthermore, it's worth noting that none of your characters possess the means to effectively handle X-23 under normal circumstances, given her exceptional physical prowess. This challenge is exacerbated by her newfound teleportation ability, which further enhances her battlefield mobility and unpredictability.
I never mentioned starting distance, nor did I say that Destiny's precognition isn't perfect. She has almost always been accurate, and the few times she wasn't involved long term visions or shenanigans involving timelines, probabilities, alternate realities, etc. For short term precognition and without PIS, Destiny is always accurate. X-23's enhanced senses are NOWHERE near being similar to Destiny's precognition, and it won't be as reliable in a battle involving 13 people AND while she is constantly fighting.
I understand your point, and it's crucial to underscore that in a battle of this nature, the combination of heightened senses and superior physical capabilities places X-23 at a distinct advantage when compared to Destiny. While Destiny's precognition may provide insights into what an opponent might do, it's essential to recognize that mere foresight alone isn't always sufficient in a combat scenario.
X-23's extraordinary sensory abilities, coupled with her exceptional physical prowess, give her a comprehensive edge. Her heightened olfactory sense allows her to anticipate her opponents' movements, but what truly sets her apart is her capacity to act swiftly and decisively upon that information.
In combat, having the foresight to predict an adversary's actions is undoubtedly valuable, but it's equally critical to possess the physical abilities and skills to respond effectively. X-23 excels in this regard; she not only knows what the enemy is likely to do but also possesses the agility, reflexes, and combat prowess to counter those actions swiftly and decisively.
In essence, it's the synergy between her enhanced senses and superior physicality that grants X-23 a substantial advantage. While Destiny's precognition offers insights, the ability to act upon that knowledge is equally vital, and in this regard, X-23's well-rounded capabilities give her a formidable edge in the midst of battle.
As for telepathy, both X-23 and Gambit have been affected by it on multiple occasions. Their psychic defences are pretty inconsistent. Regardless, even if Dani/Mary's telepathy is ineffective against them, Destiny still hard counters any attempts at stealth.
I'd like to see those multiple occasions and also a reasoning as to how Dani/Mary telepathy would effectively work against him when more powerful telepaths failed, I'm talking about the likes of Psylocke and Prof. Xavier.
Psylocke tries to read his mind while he's unconscious and talks about his resistance and then Gambit kicks her out of his head.
Kitty's Phasing
I'd like to adress something I consider to be an important aspect in this particular battle that is a major factor in your strategy.
Your observation about Kitty Pryde's phasing ability is indeed relevant and worth considering in the context of this battle. It's crucial to highlight that Kitty Pryde, as portrayed in the X-Men movies, does indeed have limitations in terms of her phasing ability when compared to her comic book counterpart.
In the movies, Kitty Pryde's phasing ability is typically depicted with a more deliberate and slower pace, which is consistent with cinematic portrayals. This means that when she phases herself or others, their movements become constrained by her speed of phasing. In a battle involving characters with comic book-standard abilities, where agility, reflexes, and combat speed play pivotal roles, this limitation can become a significant liability.
This constraint effectively means that anyone or anything under Kitty Pryde's phasing protection would be operating at a pace determined by her, which is notably slower than what many comic book characters are capable of achieving. In a high-stakes confrontation where rapid decision-making and action are paramount, this discrepancy in speed could be a critical vulnerability for her team.
Additionally, characters from the comic book universe may have encountered a wider range of superhuman abilities and combat scenarios than those from the cinematic universe. This experience often translates into more refined combat strategies and faster adaptation to changing circumstances.
In summary, while Kitty Pryde's phasing ability provides protection, it also imposes limitations on the speed and agility of those she's safeguarding, potentially putting her team at a disadvantage when facing opponents with comic book-standard abilities and combat speeds.
Explaining why I think my strategy is superior
First and foremost, an aggressive approach seizes the initiative in the battle, dictating the pace and terms of engagement. By launching an immediate offensive, my team can put the opposition on the defensive, disrupting their plans and preventing them from executing their own strategy effectively. This initial shock and pressure can create confusion and disarray among the adversaries, making it challenging for them to coordinate their defenses or carry out their intended actions.
In addition to the advantages of an all-out offensive strategy, it's worth highlighting that the opposing team's tactics, as presented, appear to have certain confusion and lapses in planning, specifically regarding their approach to individual matchups and target selection.
The opposing team's strategy seems to lack clarity when it comes to defining who will face whom in the battle. While they mention certain interactions between their team members and mines, there is a notable absence of a clear, well-defined plan for how they intend to engage us individually. This lack of specificity can lead to miscommunication and uncertainty within their ranks during the heat of battle.
Furthermore, an early and relentless offensive can exploit vulnerabilities and weaknesses within the opposing team. This proactive approach allows us to target specific threats and prioritize high-value targets swiftly. In the case of the adversaries, they rely heavily on the protective abilities of Kitty Pryde and the precognitive insights of Destiny. By mounting a full-scale offensive, we can overwhelm and disrupt these key elements, rendering their defensive and predictive capabilities less effective.
Additionally, a decisive early attack minimizes the opponents' opportunity to implement their intricate plans and cooperative strategies effectively. In the case of my adversaries, they have formulated a complex web of abilities and interactions, relying on each member's unique skills to complement one another. An all-out offensive disrupts their coordination and prevents them from fully leveraging their team's potential synergy. This approach can create confusion and discord among their ranks, making it challenging for them to execute their intended tactics.
Moreover, an aggressive strategy exploits the numerical advantage by immediately isolating and eliminating targets, rendering the opponents' numerical superiority less relevant. In the scenario presented, my team faces a numerical disadvantage, and delaying the attack may allow the opposing team to capitalize on their numbers. An immediate offensive puts us on an equal footing by nullifying their numerical edge early in the battle.
In summary, launching an all-out offensive from the start offers a range of strategic advantages. It allows us to seize the initiative, disrupt the opponents' plans, exploit vulnerabilities, and undermine their cooperative strategies. By applying relentless pressure and targeting high-value threats, my team can maximize the chances of victory and overcome the challenges presented by the adversary.
@higorm: I will read this sometime this weekend.
I understood the rulings and stipulations regarding the phasing aspect, but I'm still confused as to wether Mary Tyfoid can or cannot set the enemy on fire, because from what you showed it seems she can't directly set opponents on fire, only weapons and gear. I bring this up because in your strategy you specifically said"Mary's main goal will be to set X-23 on fire".The way I see it, this completely contradicts everything you just presented as proof that everything is ok with your team regarding the use of powers.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. No, Mary cannot combust opponents, but she can do so to gear and she can still project fire. So when I said "set on fire", I meant in flamethrower fashion lol.
I strongly believe she would still detect your team even while phased since you can't just shut your scent off. Even behind walls or whatever your team's scent would still be present into the battlefield, thus allowing X-23 senses to pick it up. Next scans shows how far her scent can go even if the target is somewhat "blocked" or hidden behind a structure:
Their scent would still be on the battlefield, but how is she going to continue to track their scent once they are underground? Hearing through two metal crates is good, but 1) the ground isn't metal crates, and 2) Laura will have to do this in a combat situation while she is being attacked. It is possible she could sense them underground, but unlikely in a loud combat scenario, and she couldn't do anything about it anyways except wait for them to resurface when they will still be phased.
Gambit is more than capable of dodging multiple attacks as already proven, but the thing is that it's not him who is being pressed to dodge attacks but your team since my team is on full offensive mode from the start. I don't see your team having the time to put pressure on him while also being bombed out of existance.
Gambit's cards are the slowest projectiles here; they aren't as fast as Dani's arrows or the soldiers' automatic gunfire. He can probably avoid getting hit for a few seconds, but within those few seconds, Veil will already be right on him. Assuming he isn't downed right away and just holds his breath, he's going to have a hard time doing that while also avoiding the gunfire and Dani's arrows. I don't think it's realistic for him to be providing much offensive pressure in this situation.
It's understandable that someone might argue that 5 seconds of premonition could offer a significant advantage in combat, but it's important to remember that when it comes to dealing with an opponent like X-23, this advantage can be considerably limited.
Firstly, although premonition can provide advance insight into X-23's immediate movements, it does not necessarily mean that it will be possible to predict all of his actions. Her ability to teleport and use her heightened senses to guide herself make her highly unpredictable and capable of changing tactics instantly.
If this was just a game of tag and Laura simply had to touch Destiny, I might agree. However, she is going to be under attack by Mary at the same time, and Mary will be getting the 5 second heads up as well. If it was a 1 second thing, I can see Laura's unpredictability being useful, but this is a full 5 seconds. That is a lot of time in a fight, and more than enough time for my team to react accordingly. There really isn't any wiggle room for surprise and unpredictability.
Additionally, Gambit's preternatural agility and ability to wreak explosive havoc early on can create enough chaos and disorder to make accurate premonitions difficult to interpret. In a chaotic combat environment, 5 seconds may not be enough to adequately react to all the variables at play. It's also important to consider that X-23 herself can use her premonition to anticipate her team's movements, potentially nullifying any advantage premonitions might offer.
If Gambit was left unattended, that would be true. However, he's going to be attacked by Dani, Veil, and 3 of the soldiers right off the bat. That is way too much for him to avoid while also providing pressure with his explosions. Not to mention basic knowledge means my team will know what Gambit is capable of, so taking him out would be a priority since he is the most vulnerable of the duo.
X-23 doesn't have any sort of premonition/precognitive powers. Her senses are great, but she isn't even at the level of Spidey-Sense, which is the closest thing there is to precognition and yet still not as good when compared to Destiny. Her enhanced senses might help in very specific situations, but you haven't provided any evidence that X-23 relies on her senses in a combat situation, in the manner you are claiming.
So while premonition is a valuable skill, it's critical to recognize that facing opponents as versatile as X-23 and Gambit requires much more than just predicting moves. You need a solid strategic plan and a team capable of adapting quickly to changing situations, and I strongly believe your team doesn't have what it takes to properly deliver such task.
Which is why I took the perfect teamwork and mind link perk ;)
Mary, Dani, and Veil all have experience in combat situations and working as part of a team. They are more than capable of adapting as needed, which will be even easier to do when you consider the simplicity of your team's strategy and account for Destiny's precognition.
Veil is going to be the easiest target to spot from a distance to avoid her gas based attacks.
Except Laura can't harm her in any way. Gambit is even more vulnerable since he can't teleport away and has nothing to counter a gas-based attack like a healing factor.
Aside from this matter, I don't see the relation of being impaired. She can always teleport away from danger if she deems necessary, not to mention that I believe your team won't have time to enforce such strategy from what my team will be doing against you from the start.
You don't think that Mary projecting fire like a flamethrower and setting Laura on fire won't impair her in any way? Even with enhanced senses and a healing factor, being on fire would certainly be very distracting, painful, and disorienting. Science has shown that someone who is on fire will likely pass out from the smoke before actually dying from the flames. Not only will the smoke impair her vision (since smoke rises), but it will very likely affect the efficiency of her enhanced senses, at least to some degree. That gives Mary an edge.
However, it's important to consider the nuances of this confrontation. While Gambit may not always charge and throw all his cards at once, his combat experience has shown that he can adapt his strategy depending on the situation. In a high-stakes battle, especially if he recognizes the threat posed by Mary, Gambit could conceivably choose to unleash a barrage of charged projectiles in rapid succession, overwhelming her ability to redirect them all effectively.
Except Gambit wouldn't know who Mary is, since AFAIK, they have never had an encounter. Due to the basic knowledge perk, Mary will be very aware of what Gambit is capable of. Regardless, I did state that Mary would be focused on X-23 and not Gambit. If it becomes absolutely necessary for my team to counter Gambit, Mary could disengage from X-23 while Destiny/Kitty play keep away, allowing Mary to have whatever few seconds she would need to combust Gambit's cards or telekinetically toss them away. I even think it's plausible that Mary can redirect Gambit's charged cards right to X-23.
Furthermore, Gambit's cards are not just ordinary projectiles; they explode on impact, creating an additional layer of complexity in redirecting them. Even if Mary manages to redirect some, the explosive nature of the cards could still pose a danger to her.
Mary isn't dumb. She would know not to pull the cards to her or near her once they are charged.
Additionally, Gambit's agility and reflexes should not be underestimated. He possesses superhuman reflexes and agility, which could allow him to adapt quickly to Mary's attempts to redirect his attacks. While Mary's pyrokinetic abilities are formidable, Gambit is known for his resilience and resourcefulness in combat. He might find ways to counter her pyrokinesis or create distractions to gain the upper hand.
I could say similar things about Mary and Dani as well. This all sounds great on paper, but you haven't provided any proof for this argument.
While Mary's instinct to defend herself is entirely reasonable, it's essential to consider the potential repercussions of shifting focus in a high-intensity combat situation. X-23's teleportation adds a significant element of unpredictability to the battle, making it challenging for any opponent to freely change targets without being exposed to counterattacks.
Again, if it weren't for Destiny, I would have to agree that X-23's teleportation makes things tricky. "Unpredictability" isn't much of a factor though when my team has 5 seconds to react accordingly. If Laura is utilizing her teleportation in a conventional way, realizes it isn't working, and then decides to be unpredictable...My team will know what she is going to do 5 seconds before she actually does it. There is no surprise factor here.
Moreover, Destiny and Dani's awareness of Gambit's abilities should indeed inform their decisions. However, even with this knowledge, the fluid nature of combat and the presence of X-23's teleportation can make it difficult to anticipate every move and effectively neutralize Gambit's main offensive tactics.
In terms of fighting Gambit, Dani and the soldiers are essentially there to pressure Gambit and keep him on the defensive. Whether that works as intended or Gambit starts blowing everything up, it still serves my team's purpose because Veil can easily just gas him. Either way, he's going down. The ONLY way he can counter this is if he were aware of Veil, what she is capable of, and chooses to ignore Dani and the soldiers to target her. Even in that case, I don't think kinetic explosions will harm Veil, merely just disperse her gas temporarily.
Furthermore, it's worth noting that none of your characters possess the means to effectively handle X-23 under normal circumstances, given her exceptional physical prowess. This challenge is exacerbated by her newfound teleportation ability, which further enhances her battlefield mobility and unpredictability.
Assuming Gambit gets taken down quickly into the battle (which is very likely), X-23 will be dealing with Typhoid Mary, Dani's psionic arrows, Veil's gas, and 6 armed soldiers.
That is 4 different forms of offence she will need to avoid.
During all of this, X-23 can either continue to focus on Destiny/Kitty and fail miserably at killing them, or she can simply ignore them and fend off my team. Either way, my team is still getting 5-second glimpses into the future the entire time.
X-23 stands no chance at dealing with all that.
I understand your point, and it's crucial to underscore that in a battle of this nature, the combination of heightened senses and superior physical capabilities places X-23 at a distinct advantage when compared to Destiny. While Destiny's precognition may provide insights into what an opponent might do, it's essential to recognize that mere foresight alone isn't always sufficient in a combat scenario.
X-23's extraordinary sensory abilities, coupled with her exceptional physical prowess, give her a comprehensive edge. Her heightened olfactory sense allows her to anticipate her opponents' movements, but what truly sets her apart is her capacity to act swiftly and decisively upon that information.
In combat, having the foresight to predict an adversary's actions is undoubtedly valuable, but it's equally critical to possess the physical abilities and skills to respond effectively. X-23 excels in this regard; she not only knows what the enemy is likely to do but also possesses the agility, reflexes, and combat prowess to counter those actions swiftly and decisively.
In essence, it's the synergy between her enhanced senses and superior physicality that grants X-23 a substantial advantage. While Destiny's precognition offers insights, the ability to act upon that knowledge is equally vital, and in this regard, X-23's well-rounded capabilities give her a formidable edge in the midst of battle.
It's very obvious that X-23 is the MVP of your duo, and you are capitalizing on her by repeatedly highlighting her capabilities. These four paragraphs, while very nicely worded, basically boil down to being a puff piece for X-23. I don't mean that in an insulting way by any means, as I would be doing the same thing in your place.
However, no amount of glorifying changes the fact that X-23 is severely outgunned in this fight. Enhanced senses, teleportation, agility, etc... all great attributes, but all just minor factors when faced against my whole team.
As I mentioned several times, X-23 does not and cannot rely on her enhanced senses in the midst of an intense fight. You have not provided any evidence to prove otherwise.
I'd like to see those multiple occasions and also a reasoning as to how Dani/Mary telepathy would effectively work against him when more powerful telepaths failed, I'm talking about the likes of Psylocke and Prof. Xavier.
I'm not going to present new feats since this is the final post and you can't address them. However, I will say that the majority of X-Men characters have one or two feats of resisting high-level telepathy...and then tons of anti-feats. X-23 and Gambit are no exception to this. I won't push this point since I can't back it up now, but Dani's telepathy is more than enough to read the minds of X-23 and Gambit.
In the movies, Kitty Pryde's phasing ability is typically depicted with a more deliberate and slower pace, which is consistent with cinematic portrayals. This means that when she phases herself or others, their movements become constrained by her speed of phasing. In a battle involving characters with comic book-standard abilities, where agility, reflexes, and combat speed play pivotal roles, this limitation can become a significant liability.
This constraint effectively means that anyone or anything under Kitty Pryde's phasing protection would be operating at a pace determined by her, which is notably slower than what many comic book characters are capable of achieving. In a high-stakes confrontation where rapid decision-making and action are paramount, this discrepancy in speed could be a critical vulnerability for her team.
Additionally, characters from the comic book universe may have encountered a wider range of superhuman abilities and combat scenarios than those from the cinematic universe. This experience often translates into more refined combat strategies and faster adaptation to changing circumstances.
In summary, while Kitty Pryde's phasing ability provides protection, it also imposes limitations on the speed and agility of those she's safeguarding, potentially putting her team at a disadvantage when facing opponents with comic book-standard abilities and combat speeds.
Well yeah, but Kitty isn't going to be phasing and unphasing repeatedly. The immediate second the battle starts, Kitty will take hold of Destiny and instantly phase. She will stay phased like that for as long as possible, and she has no reason to unphase. While X-23 is crazy fast, even for comic book standards, that split second won't be enough time for X-23 to teleport and strike them. Why? My team has 11 characters in total, with Kitty and Destiny being the least imposing ones, physically. Your team does not know who they are facing in advance, nor do they have basic knowledge to find out when the battle starts. With 3 of the soldiers being used to stand in front of Destiny/Kitty as cover, along with everything else I mentioned, there is no valid reason at all as to why X-23 would target them right off the bat. If it was just X-23 vs Kitty, and the debate was if X-23 can teleport to Kitty and kill her before she can phase, then I might agree with you. Sadly, that is not the case.
First and foremost, an aggressive approach seizes the initiative in the battle, dictating the pace and terms of engagement. By launching an immediate offensive, my team can put the opposition on the defensive, disrupting their plans and preventing them from executing their own strategy effectively. This initial shock and pressure can create confusion and disarray among the adversaries, making it challenging for them to coordinate their defenses or carry out their intended actions.
You seem to be under the impression that my team will be on the defensive and just let Gambit wreak havoc while X-23 goes for Destiny/Kitty. The reality is that half of my team will be going on the offensive, against Gambit, right off the bat. He will be forced to defend himself very quickly when under assault by gunfire, psionic arrows, and Veil. Considering your team is outnumbered and split up, it is much more likely for the half of my team to be the aggressors as opposed to Gambit. Having the morals off/bloodlust perk doesn't change that.
In addition to the advantages of an all-out offensive strategy, it's worth highlighting that the opposing team's tactics, as presented, appear to have certain confusion and lapses in planning, specifically regarding their approach to individual matchups and target selection.
The opposing team's strategy seems to lack clarity when it comes to defining who will face whom in the battle. While they mention certain interactions between their team members and mines, there is a notable absence of a clear, well-defined plan for how they intend to engage us individually. This lack of specificity can lead to miscommunication and uncertainty within their ranks during the heat of battle.
Not at all. I have made it very clear as to who each of my team members will target, but to reiterate:
Furthermore, my team's perks include basic knowledge, perfect teamwork, and a mind link. The combination of those three essentially eliminates any chance of miscommunication or uncertainty.
Furthermore, an early and relentless offensive can exploit vulnerabilities and weaknesses within the opposing team. This proactive approach allows us to target specific threats and prioritize high-value targets swiftly. In the case of the adversaries, they rely heavily on the protective abilities of Kitty Pryde and the precognitive insights of Destiny. By mounting a full-scale offensive, we can overwhelm and disrupt these key elements, rendering their defensive and predictive capabilities less effective.
Additionally, a decisive early attack minimizes the opponents' opportunity to implement their intricate plans and cooperative strategies effectively. In the case of my adversaries, they have formulated a complex web of abilities and interactions, relying on each member's unique skills to complement one another. An all-out offensive disrupts their coordination and prevents them from fully leveraging their team's potential synergy. This approach can create confusion and discord among their ranks, making it challenging for them to execute their intended tactics.
Easier said than done when this is a 11 vs 2 scenario. It will be almost impossible for Gambit to stay on the offensive when half my team is going after him, two of which can take him down.
As for Kitty and Destiny, though their support role is the main element of my team's strategy, you haven't provided any arguments as to how your team can counter them. You are mostly just relying on Kitty no longer being able to phase (which we have never seen), or for them to somehow become overwhelmed and just stop phasing? You have no counter strategy here.
Moreover, an aggressive strategy exploits the numerical advantage by immediately isolating and eliminating targets, rendering the opponents' numerical superiority less relevant. In the scenario presented, my team faces a numerical disadvantage, and delaying the attack may allow the opposing team to capitalize on their numbers. An immediate offensive puts us on an equal footing by nullifying their numerical edge early in the battle.
Again, how is your team going to isolate mine when this is 11 vs 2? Your team has the numerical advantage, not mine.
A quick summary of what my team is capable of and what will happen:
My team's perks (basic knowledge, perfect teamwork, mind link) allow them to know who they are facing, and allows them to operate with amazing coordination and synergy. They will be fighting together as a team who have fought together for years; a well-oiled machine. No possibility for exploiting weaknesses.
Destiny will also be enhanced with the MCU Super Soldier Serum, proving her with physicals akin to MCU Captain America. Without Kitty to defend her, she's a sitting duck. With the serum, she stands a chance on her own if it comes to that.
My opponent's strategy is for X-23 to target Destiny/Kitty right off the bat, despite the fact that his team has no knowledge and have a total of 11 targets to choose from. Although it is indeed likely that X-23 goes after Destiny/Kitty, since she knows who Destiny is, it won't happen immediately. Gambit's role is to go on the offensive and cause destruction and chaos on the battlefield with his explosive cards. However, as he will be getting targeted by Dani, 3 soldiers, and Veil, it is far more likely that he is immediately forced on the defensive. He will be gassed by Veil pretty quickly while he is focused on avoiding the gunfire and psionic arrows.
Once Gambit is down, X-23 will need to avoid gunfire from six soldiers, Dani's psionic arrows, Veil's gas, and Typhoid Mary, all while also trying to take out Destiny/Kitty. That isn't realistic at all. One psionic arrow, a good stab/slice from Mary's sword, or a few moments too many inhaling Veil's gas, and X-23 is done for.
Keep in mind that all of this happening while my team has a constant heads up of what will happen in 5 seconds. Although 5 seconds might not seem like much, that is A LOT of time in a battle. It will allow my team to anticipate where the opponents are, where they will go, what they will do, etc. There will be no opportunity for surprise here.
With all that being said, I am very confident that my team has the means to secure the win.
@higorm: @sirfizzwhizz:@professorrespect:@mr-yes:@kingcrimsonFinal post is up! Voting can be opened.
Im ready to vote, and some thoughts.
I feel Geeky had a more versatile thread and interesting options to win. Yet Higor's team was simply better quality characters, and the combination of teleport close range X-23 and long range Gambit is pretty hard to counter. In the end, Im siding with Geeky's arguments. I think Mary is proven on the level vs anyone on Higor team, but the others unique abilities and perfect teamwork with precog can take out Gambit quick at least to focused X-23 then. Though I expect X-23 to take out most of the team even after Gambit is killed till X-23 finally brought down by Mary, Veil, or Moonstar. I think Kitty dies along with Destiny at some point, as they help in the beginning but add nothing when Gambit is gone. X-23 will be that damn hard to deal with teleporting around like a mad monkey.
@sirfizzwhizz: Thanks for voting
@professorrespect: @owie: Voting is open!
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@geekryan gets my vote but it was close. I do think either team can beat each other (for the most part) I believe geek had the more convincing argument. With basic knowledge Mary could potentially deflect Gambits cards while Dani distracts and veil takes him out. Higorm I think had one sentence about Veil but didn't really offer up an argument as to how Gambit and X-23 dispatch someone who can turn into vapour and knock them out. It's possible a huge explosion could disperse the cloud but unless I missed something he didn't mention the Cajun would opt for that. A significant part of his counter arguments were centered around Lauras enhanced senses (which he proved) but I didn't follow why he cared enough for X-23 to kill Destiny/Kitty when they're non-factors. Geek did bring up Gambit getting taken out by stray bullets, arrows etc. which Higorm countered handily. Geek also brought up flame hurting Laura which again Higorm countered handily. All in all it was shown that Geek's strategy offered a more convincing avenue to win than Higorm. It seemed like X-23 would chase Destiny/Kitty while Mary attacked her and lost while Gambit would just blow everyone up? This is generalized but its scope didn't prove how they would deal with Veil whom could knock out Gambit then help with X-23. Idk seemed like there were some good arguments to be made here.
I was also surprised Higorm didn't lean more into pre-cog counters since that was a foundation of geeks strategy. There's several arguments that come to mind that would show the use of pre-cog in this battle to be not as effective as geek suggested. I will say he briefly touched upon one counter but it was only for a few sentences.
@eisenfauste: Thanks for voting!
I'm voting for @geekryan for a couple reasons, but above all because Veil basically solos and there's not much that @higorm's team can do about it.
I tend to buy a lot of HigorM's argument about the chaos his team brings to the battlefield being too hard to really predict through Destiny. If there's nothing you can do about a possible future, it doesn't help to read the future. So if Gambit just lays out massive explosions that cover the entire space, with X-23 teleporting him and herself away, for instance, what is most of Geek's team gonna do? I mean Kitty, Destiny, and Veil might be ok by being intangible. But a giant field of explosions will catch you no matter how agile you are, so Dani and Mary would be gone. And Nightcrawler can teleport hella fast, so it doesn't matter if Destiny tells you X-23 is gonna teleport here, here, and here around you, she's going to do it too fast for you to react effectively.
But that being said, I also buy that Mary could redirect Gambit's cards. I think there are ways around that for him, but if he just throws the cards she could redirect. (Incidentally, I'm personally of the belief that the story with Mary and Elektra isn't canon for a variety of reasons, but she has enough other feats that that doesn't matter.)
Mary would, even with all that fire and TP and TK, get killed fast by a teleporting X-23.
I believe that Kitty and Destiny could escape damage by phasing.
I think a super-soldier-enhanced Gambit could escape all attacks except Veil. But with Veil there, both he and X-23 are toast.
I appreciate and enjoyed Geek's rundown on Mary and Mirage. Both characters that I like and follow, but both with random meandering histories that make it hard to keep up with all their details. So the comprehensive take was nice to read.
Both debators posted solid arguments. I think Geek's had some more specific details, and also Veil is MVP.
@geekryan: I know, it's a little weird. But the story in the 100th issue follows up on a story in the Black, White, and Red series (issue 3), which is full of completely counterfactual stories like Elektra turning into a vampire and dying. Plus the whole story in issue 100 is weird because it makes some vague references to the then-current DD storyline, but then also has stuff that is out of sync with it, like Elektra's black costume. And the ending feels out of sync with the rest of the then-continuity too. I see the issue 100 as basically a one-shot follow-up to Black White and Blood. It's numbering doesn't fit in with a current series of hers or anything, I think it was just a showcase for Nocenti to write another story about her after Nocenti's story in Black White and Blood. I can't necessarily prove its non-canonicity but that's my take.
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