Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

  • Eve (2)
  • Pikachu (3)
  • Kenshin (1)

@major_hellstorm:

  • Shocker (3)
  • Vermin (2)
  • Darthhawk (1)

Rules

  • Comics are all current canon. Valiant is Pre and Post Reboot. Live Action gets feats from Expanded Universe based on said film. Manga gets Anime and Manga feats. Video Games get Expanded Universe feats based on said game.
  • All characters are in character, but no rivalries. Teamwork is not perfect with characters they never worked with before.
  • No BFR, but can teleport others around the battlefield.
  • Cannot Mentally KO or Mentally Control the enemy team. Applies to soul abilities as well. Anything else goes of Summons, Fodder, and Bystanders.
  • Time Manipulation is allowed only on the character who has it only. Can not Increase speed past Hypersonic.
  • Transmutation is allowed, but not directly on characters bodies.
  • Intangibility, Teleporting, and Transmutation forms of dismemberment are not allowed on enemy teams bodies, but everything else is fine.
  • Gear must remain Street Level.
  • Summons/Duplicates limited to Navy Seal Team quality. You cannot summon anything or duplicate enough to overwhelm a 6 man Navy Seal Team with ease.
  • Unsure, then ask. If things get out of hand, rulings will be made.

Battlefield

Top Team Starts far left. Bottom team starts far right.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for deathhero61
#3 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#4 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#5 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I am re-using the opener I made last round but edited with more feats and not much of a strategy cause I have no idea who Eve is.

Introducing My Team

No Caption Provided

The Shocker

Since Shocker is the star of my team (and also because I already made an opener for him in one of my other CaVs), I will be posting an in-depth opener for him. Anyway......

Let me introduce to you Spidey's most underrated villain, the Shocker! The Shocker was a safe cracking engineer named Herman Schultz who escaped prison one day by making what will become his vibroshocker gauntlets, in his first very first issue (Amazing Spider-Man #46) he was able to best Spider-Man (although Spidey had a cast in the fight) and since then he joined multiple teams including the Sinister Six and Seven. But in recent years he has become a jobber so some people only know him as a jobber so I want to change that.

Stats:

The Shocker really relies on his smarts and his gauntlets so he doesn't have too many physical feats, that is not to say that he isn't impressive though.

Speed:

In terms of speed he is able to tag the likes of Spider-Man at a close range with a surprise attack. This may not seem to impressive but consider that Spidey should have better reaction speed than Tai so this proves that Shocker can tag him even at a further range.

No Caption Provided

Shocker can also tag Spidey with physical attacks.

No Caption Provided

Strength:

His strength is 12x more than that of an average human and he can hurt Spidey with his blows (albeit Spidey was already injured here but keep in mind this was Shocker's first issue, he got upgraded since then).

No Caption Provided

Durability:

There are times where Shocker has shields this powerful

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But sadly that is inconsistent (he had an upgraded suit here). But he does still have auto shields which can deflect a punch from the Spider-Man

No Caption Provided

And this isn't a one time thing either, he tanks another blow from Spidey below

No Caption Provided

Smarts:

This is how the Shocker wins fights, not only did he build his suit but he can also use his powers in creative ways and use the environment to attack his opponents. You can see him use his gauntlets for temporary flight

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Left to right

And he gained the upper hand on Spider-Man after getting a shot off by using the environment

No Caption Provided

And here is another creative use and example of environment manipulation.

No Caption Provided

Gauntlets:

The real star of the show, the vibro shock gauntlets. These puppies can stagger the Spider-Man himself

No Caption Provided

And with two gauntlets nearly put SPidey down (even though he says above that he can finish Spidey off with this attack, that really isn't the case)

No Caption Provided

You also see his smarts here as Spidey cannot get him to come close with his taunts.

But Spidey isn't the only people that the Shocker used them on, he also OHKOd/BFR'd the Punisher with them

No Caption Provided

Take out Sandman

No Caption Provided

And even harm Luke Cage

No Caption Provided

Technically this is a strength feat but whatevs.

No Caption Provided

Darkhawk

Christopher Powell is a super hero who is Iron Man lite. His amulet is what gives him power and with he can do a variety of useful things. He will act as my team's ranged support. Below are some feats that will be useful later on.

Feats:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Scan 1: Darkhawk easily busting a car.
  • Scan 2: Darkhawk dodging Gladiator and turning invisible.
  • Scan 3: Darkhawk projecting a forcefield which no sells an RPG.
  • Scan 4: Darkhawk learning he can create a scout bird (which I probably should have mentioned in my other match).
No Caption Provided

Vermin

Edward Whelan is a Spidey rogue who is basically a more savage, slightly weaker, version of the Lizard except he is a rat. He has superstrength, speed and durability which allowed him to take on Spidey and Cap and the added power to communicate with rats and make people more savage.

Feats:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
  • Scan 1: Fights evenly with Lizard.]
  • Scan 2: Beats down on Spidey although Spidey was caught by suprise.
  • Scan 3: His bites cause Cap blinding pain.
  • Scan 4: Makes Cap more animalistic which greatly affected his skill.
  • Scan 5: Controls rats to attack his father (this would probably be super effective against Pikachu since Pikachu is a rat, more on this later).

Strategy:

The plan for now is for Darkhawk to go invisible and attack you from above, while Shocker does the same from the ground. At the same time, Vermin and a small battalion of rats will act as tanks to charge at your team. I think this strategy will work for two reasons, 1. I don't think Kenshin or Pikachu can tank a blast from the Shocker and Darkhawk. 2. Neither Kenshin nor Pikachu will be in the right state of mind as Vermin will affect them (same probably goes for Eve). Keep in mind, while Vermin might not be able to mentally control Pikachu, he can still influence Pikachu into becoming a rabid rat making him a danger to both sides.

So yeah that is the basic strategy for now.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#6 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Eve, The Human Weapon Waifu

No Caption Provided

Bio

No Caption Provided

Eve is a genetically engineered bio-weapon. She was used as a tool that murders and kills, until Train and Sven spread their influence on her and she did her very best to redeem herself and become a sweeper(similar to train) using her powers in versatile ways, Eve although the least experience and skilled, she's potentially the most powerful out of the trio of sweepers, being able to do amazing things like grant herself wings for flight, creating nanofibers that can precisely cut through anything, and turning her body to steel to protect from bullets.

Power

She can turn her hands into giant weapons such as blades

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Transforms the surface of her stomach into iron the moment the bullet impacted her skin.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

She can even do cute little things like turning her fingers into sharp knives.

Transforms her hands into a mace/hammer for blunt force

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

Manages to create a shield to protect herself from getting eaten by a T-Rex

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Creates a shield to protect against wind blasts that were previously shattering rocks and cutting down trees.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Eve creates her angel wings for the first time and swiftly saves Rinslet at FTE speeds

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

She's gotten way better at moving around with her Angel wings and fly around in combat and combine her other abilities while fighting as well.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Creates a spiked club

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Makes a perfect replica of Train's gun.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Creates steel gauntlets for hand to hand combat and also uses her hair as a weapon

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

She can even create swift projectiles(Feather Bullet) that don't have a lot of power but are pretty fast, in this instance she used her projectiles as a pressuring tool then used her hair to grab and slam Kranz(someone fast enough to deflect bullets)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

This should be a good start. Now on to stats.

Feats and Stuff(Stats, skill, etc.)

Reaction Speed: Transforms the surface of her stomach into iron the moment the bullet impacted her skin. This is an amazing reaction time feat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Reflexes/Reaction time: Manages to successfully tag Kranz, someone fast enough to dodge and deflect gunfire from Train Heartnet.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Combat Speed: blitzes 6 superhuman soliders with a flurry of attacks

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Reaction Time: Reacts to a FTE blitz twice, and manages to stop an attempt by turning her hair into spikes.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Striking Strength: Manages to stagger a T-Rex

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

Durability: Takes several explosive Chi Bullets from Durham until finally getting KO. I want to make note, his Chi Bullets can destroy cars and military vehicles easily. This only hospitalized her for two days,(her nano machines accelerate her recovery) where most people would be dead after the first shot.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

That should be good for now. She's plenty fast, has fair amount of tools at her disposal and packs a decent punch.

Kenshin Himura

No Caption Provided

Combine Jotaro Kujo, Sasuke Uchiha, Gintoki, and Makoto Naegi have you have a light hearted, emo and tough sonuva bitch who can take down anyone in combat. Kenshin may be a 2 pointer but he's clearly in a tier of his own in terms of stats, skill and ability. And i'll also make note that Kenshin is the most skilled combatant in this lineup.

Speed

In some aspects Kenshin might as well be a speedster, because Kenshin is REALLY good at blitzing people and has great speed feats.

For example in the very first chapter he blitzes an entire room of swordsmen easily, throwing skill and strength in the mix, taking down groups of 4 or 5 with each stroke and reading everyone's movements flawlessly so he could take down the group with great efficiency.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Blitzes a group of gunmen before they could fire.

No Caption Provided

Cuts the fuses off of several bombs instantly

No Caption Provided

Easily blitzes the Sword Police Captain

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Outspeeds canonfire and reaches the shooter before it even comes close to reaching him. You can even visibly see a sonic boom from the weapon.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Reaches out and saves a man from canonfire

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Slices a canonball in half after it was fired.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Stops a bullet with the hilt of his sword, this was basically a suckerpunch, he had no idea a bullet was coming his way, so this is impressive.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Blitzes Sanosuke Sagara with several swift strikes before he could lift a finger, Kenshin did this as soon as he realized how durable Sanosuke was.

No Caption Provided

The anime version of this fight really depicts Kenshin's speed well

https://gfycat.com/UnequaledDopeyEmu

Sanosuke is a bullet timer BTW.

Kenshin's speed should be enough to blitz, keep up with or whatever the case may be regarding speed.

Strength

TBH you would think a scrawny looking guy like Kenshin wouldn't be all that strong, the person above in the speed section Sanosuke Sagara is basically Bane. So being able to put him down, even though it required a lot of blows is pretty impressive in its own right. But it's not his best.

For example, with his strength, he's able to create long range shockwaves with the sheer force of his strikes

No Caption Provided

Here's some more feats

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan 1: Smashes a large man's upper body into a wooden floor

Scan 2: Smacks a another guy into the ceiling with only the butt of his sword casually.

Scan 3: Sends Saito flying with a swift attack to the neck. A technique like this if swiftly done and unsuspecting, if done with the right amount of strength should KO anyone who isn't ready for an attack.

Stops kunai throws from a ninja with only the wind pressure of his attacks

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And to end this post with my absolute favorite feat. Slices a lampost and launches it at a mansion all in one swift motion.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

He slashed the support of the iron pole, then essentially balanced it on his sword then threw it like a fastball.(The man up on the balcony couldn't even react to what happen. That's how fast it was.) From what I know of your team, nobody matches such brute strength.

Durability/Endurance

I never consider this section necessary in a debate, unless it's of a higher tier, I usually bring up durability when it's called into question. I don't normally like introducing, it, at this point it's a courtesy for a properly made opener.

Takes a cut to the shoulder, and a tree trunk to the face but continues fighting.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Takes a hit that can break bone and manages to land one as well even though all his senses at the time were weakened,

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Survives a monstrous hit from a mechanical puppet that was created shockwaves and caused internal injuries to Kenshin. Yet he kept on fighting even after this and went on to fight the main villain of this arc right after this and survived a bunch of his attacks. Here's a link showing the attacks you see below and the attacks from said villian.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Despite all that, as soon as his waifu was threatened, he continued pushing himself and got even stronger because of it. If Kenshin gets forced into an all out battle, he'll definitely last long.

Tanked getting palmed hard enough to get sent flying into a tree and break it. He was perfectly fine after this.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Miscellaneous Skills regarding Ki/Chi

Kenshin can sense hidden opponents

No Caption Provided

Can perfectly read and adapt to opponents in combat to the point where he might as well have pre-cog

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Despite an opponent having a huge speed advantage, he was still able to predict and react to his attacks

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He managed to resist the Shin No Ippou

No Caption Provided

The user has managed to use this technique to paralyze an entire room of people including Sanosuke Sagara. Kenshin however completely resisted it with his stronger will power.

No Caption Provided

Kenshin can do something similar with his own Ki pressure. But obviously those of a strong will can resist it though so it doesn't matter much.

No Caption Provided

Kenshin is easily the most skilled combatant here.

Pikachu!

No Caption Provided

Pikachu is the leading mascot of the Pokemon Franchise. He's been the main partner of multiple main characters throughout different manga and anime. And has always been the ace. A versatile moveset, an unwavering will and a badass track record. Pikachu on average based off stats and numbers is initially one of the most basic pokemon in the series, with stats of attack and defense being average at best and nothing out of the ordinary, a fairly balanced Pokemon, but the love for the Pika is too strong with the actual anime/manga versions of this little guy, and he has feats of fighting against Mega Evolutions, helping out against legendaries, fighting evolved pokemon constantly and fighting pokemon that are legit powerhouses. Pika despite his size and demeanor is pretty freaking powerful. This is why in the anime he was constantly sought out by team rocket. And in one of the mangas, Pikachu was Red's toughest customer. From winning pokemon battles to trashing Team Rocket's robots, Pikachu had tons of experience under his belt.(but due to plot and horrible writing somehow always loses or gets challenged by newer fodder at the beginning of each region)

Pokedex entry

No Caption Provided

I used to give pokedex entries a lot of crap, and to a degree I still do. However this description for Pikachu isn't inaccurate.

Tanked a lightning bolt and used it to amplify his Thundershock to wipe out a fleet of flying pokemon

No Caption Provided

There was also a gif of Pikachu using his thunderbolt to counter an actual lightning bolt in one of the movies but I can't find it. When I do i'll post it. But if what the pokedex says is true, a lightningbolt is not only as hot as the surface of the sun, but it quites a huge punch. And pikachu does have feats following that.

Here's a list of his techniques from across the series. I won't speculate and talk about moves that he CAN do based off the game. That would be highly speculative and it would be unfair as well. I'll only go based off what a Pikachu(or at least the main versions of one across media) has done

Moves and abilities

Thunderbolt: Damages all foes around the user. It may also cause paralysis and prevent any attacks or moves.

No Caption Provided

It's one of Pikachu's go to moves and despite it not being his ultimate move or anything it usually gets the job done and has craptons of power. With controlled blasts he can do some impressive stuff regardless.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan 1: Sends an armored truck flying

Scan 2: Destroys an advanced piece of machinery

Scan 3: Blows up helicopter

Overloads and destroys a mech designed to absorb electricity and his blasts can be seen from a good distance away and covers a great AOE. So if Pikachu can pull this off, I think he'd be able to actually hurt Greed through his ultimate shield. Maybe even paralyze him. Same goes for Guts.

No Caption Provided

Uses Thunderbolt to send several rock projectiles flying into other airborne projectiles and zaps an Onix

No Caption Provided

Iron Tail: The foe is slammed with a steel-hard tail. It may also lower the target's Defense if it hits. A classic move Pikachu learned in the Hoenn Region, it's an invalubale attack for close quarters combat and it allows him to trade blows with those above his pay grade.

No Caption Provided

Iron Tail has massive offensive potential in combat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Scan 1: Clashes against an Aggron which according to the pokedx eats iron and tunnels through the firmest of Bedrock

Scan 2: Smashes the ground causing a small quake lifting up the pokemon who was digging through the ground, the pokemon got sent flying, then Pikachu quickly smacked it downwards.

Scan 3 and Scan 6: Shatters a boulder, and deflects boulders

Scan 4: Shatters Ice

Scan 5: Overwhelms and destroys a generated forcefield.

So with this move, Pika could overwhelm most opponents or match their strongest blows.

Volt Tackle: The user electrifies itself, then charges. It causes considerable damage to the user and may leave the target with paralysis.

No Caption Provided

I think of it as Pikachu's version of the Kaio Ken except shorter in duration and less damaging. It's a fast and hard hitting attack that can also leave a target paralyzed after it hits.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Scan 1: rips through a small mech

Scan 2: Smashes through solid rock

Scan 3: Blitzes and sends Regice flying into a wall ( he's almost 400 pounds. BTW)

Scan 4: Breaks out of Ice and blitzes the user

Scan 5: Clashes with a milotic and leaves it paralyzed.

After using this technique, Pikachu takes some damage, so I would hope after being trained he wouldn't spam a move like this.

Electro Ball: The user hurls an electric orb at the target. The faster the user is than the target, the greater the move's power. I'll cover Pikachu's speed and discuss Quick Attack in his speed section.

No Caption Provided

It's a useful ranged attack that can be spammed, and it's trajectory can be manipulated, and it's a very flexible move appliciable for pretty much any situation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan 1: Fires one off at point blank range, can probably double as a durability feat

Scan 2: Overpowers a solarbeam

Scan 3: One shots a bulbasaur, and a good showing of an altered trajectory.

Toxic Tail-Strike: A move that applies the technique Toxic and puts it into a physical application.

No Caption Provided

Subsitute: Basically creating a physical decoy that takes a hit and after taking one it vanishes.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Pikachu can use this for more advanced assaults, sending in a clone and having it launch attacks. Pikachu can only send one at a time and control it, and if it takes a single hit it's done for, so it's only useful as a decoy, but having it phase through barriers AND attack people? That's insanely useful and I'll bring it up in my strategy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Speed

Pikachu is respectably fast, and has the most impressive travel speed out of the group. But has good reflexes as well

Agility: This technique increases speed. But in the anime it was mostly used no differently from quick attack. It was usually Pikachu just showing off his speed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Scan 1 and 4: Runs fast enough to appear multiple places at once. In Scan 4 Pikachu with one other pikachu in a joint feat were both moving fast enough to appear at multiple places at once.

Scan 2: Appears FTE while dodging hyper beams

Scan 3: Dodges hydro pump and runs on the surface of water at FTE.

Quick Attack: An attack that moves at great speeds, it's Pikachu's go to option for blitzing opponents. In the games this attack usually hits first.

No Caption Provided

Pikachu moves fast enough to to tear the earth when using it.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan 1: Hops from platform to platform then blitzes a flying pokemon trying to gain distance.

Scan 2: Completely vanishes from sight before an attack can hit, and then becomes hard to keep track of completely outpacing and blitzing the pokemon.

Scan 3: Electivire uses thunderbolt to attack from a range, Pikachu then uses quick attack to skim through the debris caused from the attack then attacks his opponent.

Pikachu has plenty of speed feats without these techniques, and they just as impressive if not more so, If speed needs to continue to be an area of discussion i'll show them off, but for now this is more than enough.

Durability/Endurance

In the games Pikachu had low defense and attack power, the anime is a complete contradiction of that. Pikachu can take a hit and he's hard to put down. Considering I already spammed the other sections with plenty of gifs, I'll end Pikachu's stat section here with durability with these last few gifs. Strength would be redundant, and i'm sure some of these gifs already gave you a good idea on how strong pikachu is.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan 1: Smacked into a boulder so hard it shatters on impact

Scan 2: Takes a large onslaught of blows from Infernape who can crater walls easily

Scan 3: Gets sent flying by a concentrated twister, the blasted with a hydro pump which shatters the rock. Pikachu was still fighting after this.

If durability gets further called into question i'll present more feats.

Like I said i won't be doing strength it would be redundant for Pikachu but I can show off strength feats later when necessary

Miscellaneous Skills Regarding natural abilities and powers

I posted enough gifs so i'll copy and paste the rest from the respect thread(where i got a good portion of the material from)

Advanced Senses

Being rather animal like, Pikachu's senses are far superior to those of a normal human. Throughout the series, Pikachu:

Eletricity absortion

Natural Ability: Static

Pikachu's ability is static, which means that any opponent that physically touches him has a chance of picking up static electricity, which leaves them paralyzed. When an opponent is paralyzed, they are often incapable of attacking. Even when they can attack, their movement speed is significantly lowered. Static even works on opponents who are immune to or absorb electricity, such as a motor drive Electivire.

Note that while static is something that happens at random, Pikachu has demonstrated the ability to cause it to intentionally occur.

The Battle

The plan for now is for Darkhawk to go invisible and attack you from above, while Shocker does the same from the ground. At the same time, Vermin and a small battalion of rats will act as tanks to charge at your team. I think this strategy will work for two reasons, 1. I don't think Kenshin or Pikachu can tank a blast from the Shocker and Darkhawk. 2. Neither Kenshin nor Pikachu will be in the right state of mind as Vermin will affect them (same probably goes for Eve). 3.Keep in mind, while Vermin might not be able to mentally control Pikachu, he can still influence Pikachu into becoming a rabid rat making him a danger to both sides.

So yeah that is the basic strategy for now.

Pikachu has good enough senses to deal with those that are invisible, and has very acute hearing. Plus he wouldn't be able to stay invisible forever. Eventually he'll reveal his position and Pikachu could snipe him from below via AOE attacks. I personally don't view Shocker as a threat, he may have tagged Spiderman on multiple occasions, that doesn't mean he's as fast as him. Pikachu, Kenshin or Eve should be able to close the distance on him and attempt to deal damage.

Here's why I don't believe your strategy works.

1. Pikachu without a doubt can tank a blast from Shocker and Darkhawk, Kenshin? At best he can survive some blasts admittedly before eventually going down, but regardless, Kenshin's fast enough to read one's aim and act accordingly.

2. You weren't clear on this. And I highly doubt this will work on Kenshin given his feats of absolute concentration and mental dominance.

3. Pikachu could just bombard your entire team before you get in range let alone start breaking us apart. I mean seriously, only Darkhawk to my knowledge is mobile enough to continously dodge large AOE attacks. Shocker isn't agile whatsoever based off scans, and Vermin shouldn't be agile ENOUGH, to avoid attacks like these:

Pikachu has absorbed lightning strikes, destroyed machines resistant to electricity, and like I showed before has blown up helicopters and the like. For example, Pikachu managed to destroy and blow up a military grade aircraft, creating a huge explosion in the aftermath, pikachu while submerged blasts Milotic at point blank range, creating a massive column of water several stories tall. At full power, Pikachu can destroy portions of small building sized rocks.

No Caption Provided

Good luck dodging, let alone tanking that.

The reason my team wins, is because not only do we have Pikachu with a crap ton of firepower, we have Eve with additional mobility and versatility, and Kenshin with his skill and wolverine/gorgon-esque reflexes.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#7 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

Counters:

Pikachu has good enough senses to deal with those that are invisible, and has very acute hearing. Plus he wouldn't be able to stay invisible forever. Eventually he'll reveal his position and Pikachu could snipe him from below via AOE attacks.

How high can Pikachu fire? Because Darkhawk can fly as high as he needs too.

I personally don't view Shocker as a threat, he may have tagged Spiderman on multiple occasions, that doesn't mean he's as fast as him. Pikachu, Kenshin or Eve should be able to close the distance on him and attempt to deal damage.

That's the reason why I have Vermin. Also, I don't really see Eve closing the distance all that fast, her feats weren't too impressive.

1. Pikachu without a doubt can tank a blast from Shocker and Darkhawk,

You're gonna need to show some energy resistance feats.

Kenshin? At best he can survive some blasts admittedly before eventually going down, but regardless, Kenshin's fast enough to read one's aim and act accordingly.

Kenshin can take at most 2 blasts total. He can't read the aim of an invisible person, nor can he even use his skill because again Vermin will mess with his mind.

You weren't clear on this. And I highly doubt this will work on Kenshin given his feats of absolute concentration and mental dominance.

Here is a doctor explaining the ability to make it more clear

No Caption Provided

As you can see it subconsciously brings the worst out of the people around him . Will power/mental concentration means squat otherwise Cap and Spidey would be the last ones who should be affected.

3. Pikachu could just bombard your entire team before you get in range let alone start breaking us apart. I mean seriously, only Darkhawk to my knowledge is mobile enough to continously dodge large AOE attacks. Shocker isn't agile whatsoever based off scans, and Vermin shouldn't be agile ENOUGH, to avoid attacks like these:

I highly doubt that. Vermin can control his rodents from inside the sewers to make them capture little boys, his range is incredible and most likely spans the entire battlefield.

No Caption Provided

Pikachu has absorbed lightning strikes, destroyed machines resistant to electricity, and like I showed before has blown up helicopters and the like. For example, Pikachu managed to destroy and blow up a military grade aircraft, creating a huge explosion in the aftermath, pikachu while submerged blasts Milotic at point blank range, creating a massive column of water several stories tall. At full power, Pikachu can destroy portions of small building sized rocks.

Good luck dodging that. Because Vermin will be able to poison Pikachu's mind to the point that he s a rabid animal, making your team the number one target. His psychic poison made even Captain America with years of experience miss, and his powers are supper effective against rats so Pikachu would stand no chance of defending against it.

The reason my team wins, is because not only do we have Pikachu with a crap ton of firepower,

Which would be working in my favour.

we have Eve with additional mobility and versatility,

Which doesn't really matter.

and Kenshin with his skill and wolverine/gorgon-esque reflexes.

Poisoned skill and not too much of a factor speed (because even if he wasn't poisoned, Vermin would wreck him in a fight).

Conclusion:

Pikachu goes wild and uses up his energy missing attacks and fighting his own team. Then once he loses all his energy he gets taken out by my team (probably by Darkhawk because there is no way Pikachu is hitting an agile, invisible opponent in rage mode).

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#8 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deathhero61
#10 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: whats the starting distance?

Edit: And do we start within sight?

Avatar image for deathhero61
#11 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Counters

How high can Pikachu fire? Because Darkhawk can fly as high as he needs too.

Good question, and I have an answer.

In a dick measuring contest with his friend Piplup, uses his thunder bolt to skyrocket past the mountains on the islands and reach thunderclouds

Manages to tag a far away hot air balloon that was running rampant..

Also to show off more feats, Pikachu while relying on his senses, had to fight a flying pokemon with psychic abilities with his eyes closed, and used his hearing alone to effectively tag it.

That's the reason why I have Vermin. Also, I don't really see Eve closing the distance all that fast, her feats weren't too impressive.

Reacting to a bullet the instant it impacts her skin, keeping up with bullet deflectors that are on Train Heartnet's level, forcing Train to block with his gun and etc. What I shown alone is decent. I don't recall any of your characters bullet deflecting(your speed section for shocker was basically "i'm a spiderman rouge so I am automatically in the same ballpark regarding speed") Also another neat trick she has is her Nano Blades, that she can use against Darkhawk, is to shred his armor at a molecular level. Here she cuts up guys wearing armor that is resistant to bullets and even grenades,(several of them survived Eve's attacks easily, and it took Train's railgun to smash through said armor)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Its a pretty swift technique that's also great for crowd control.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

She has also reacted and shielded herself against machine gunfire.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And alongside Sven avoided minigun fire and managed to react and defend against a grenade launcher explosion. Sven and Eve also had to continue dodging minigun fire while their vision was obscured by the smoke.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

The same guy who was flying in the air attempted to bullrush her when she wasn't paying attention with machine gun rounds, and by the time the bullets reached her shield, the guy was already behind her attempting to go for a suckerpunch, but she still managed to react and tried to tag him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Eve is plenty fast IMO. Not exactly as fast as Train and Sven, but she can pull her weight. This is especially including her flight speed.

https://youtu.be/b1oJHz8pJtU?t=810

13:30-13:36

15:01-15:19.

You're gonna need to show some energy resistance feats.

Lol didn't think i'd have to, here's some more from his RTs.

Hit by a zap canon from Espeon, which is shown to leave craters in the ceiling

Hit by Mega Lucario's Aura Sphere, which created a decent sized explosion

Barely phased by an exploding Helicopter.

Survives a direct Aeroblast from a Lugia (an extremely powerful legendary). And while this Lugia isn't as strong as the one in the movie, it's still quite powerful

Pikachu and Swellow, managed to surivive a solarbeam/icebeam combination attack.

Kenshin can take at most 2 blasts total. He can't read the aim of an invisible person, nor can he even use his skill because again Vermin will mess with his mind.

You never showed any scans in your opener of Shocker having invisibility tech or cloaks. Plus if Kenshin can read the path of bullets after they have been fired, and can blitz bullet timers, I think he'll be fine regarding dodging Shocker's blasts. Plus Kenshin could possibly mess with his cloaking system of Shocker by doing what I shown in my opener. He doesn't have the agility to dodge something like this.

No Caption Provided

Doesn't Vermin have to bite him in order to mess with Kenshin's mind? Plus like I said, Kenshin has dealt with a similar technique and resisted it through sheer force of will.

Here is a doctor explaining the ability to make it more clear

As you can see it subconsciously brings the worst out of the people around him . Will power/mental concentration means squat otherwise Cap and Spidey would be the last ones who should be affected.

And what mental resistances did Spidey and Cap have back then to support this claim?

I highly doubt that. Vermin can control his rodents from inside the sewers to make them capture little boys, his range is incredible and most likely spans the entire battlefield.

A pokemon and a simple rat, are two entirely different specimens, if anything Pikachu gets the Cap treatment. Especially because, although there are multiple examples, I want to get this post done as soon as possible so these were the quickest ones I could find. Pikachu out of several Pokemon AND TRAINERS, was the only one to truly resist mind control. Watch the entire episode if you want but it should be marked already around 15:30

https://youtu.be/_lfwwr2-CFQ?t=932

Pikachu also resisted a Psybeam attack right off the bat.

No Caption Provided

Resists a mind control device despite not even Reshiram (a legendary pokemon) being able to do so.

I also want to add, that the Doctor Peter is talking to specifies that not everyone has the same psychological defenses, so its a case by case basis regarding his ability. Do you mind showing more examples?

Good luck dodging that. Because Vermin will be able to poison Pikachu's mind to the point that he s a rabid animal, making your team the number one target. His psychic poison made even Captain America with years of experience miss, and his powers are supper effective against rats so Pikachu would stand no chance of defending against it.

You really don't have a solid basis on that. Plus as soon as the fight starts Pikachu will have already thrown out a thunder attack before Vermin's powers could take a serious effect, and the initial wave of attacks from Pikachu won't be avoidable since you guys will start within sight on the ground and the AOE of his moves will make it so it would be hard to miss the first few shots. Pikachu's attacks should easily fry Shocker's and Darkhawk's cloaking tech.

Which would be working in my favour.

Which doesn't really matter.

Poisoned skill and not too much of a factor speed (because even if he wasn't poisoned, Vermin would wreck him in a fight).

Still haven't provided sufficient information or proof on your basis. You haven't even shown how fast Vermin's abilities activate.

It actually does, Eve's only really selling point is her versatility, she isn't all that in terms of physicals save speed, but she has the versatility to easily destroy your main flyer via nanomachine technology which can not only easily hack into your suit, but as I showed you already, can easily dice it up via Nano Blades that can cut at a molecular level, easily outmaneuver Shocker with reaction time that can allow her to react to minigun fire and wings that grant flight.

Already addressed this, and even if you force him to rely on beastly urges more than his "skill" he'd still retain his abilities because its formed mostly through muscle memory, and you'd basically turn him back into the battousai, an unstoppable killer who is unparalleled in combat. When Kenshin is bloodlusted he is way faster than normal, and his instincts and senses improve and allow him to retain his skill in a such a state. For example, when he was pushed to the edge, and someone was threatening a baby and the only weapon he had on his person was real blade(or so he thought) he was driven so mad that he rushed towards the guy, was dodging attacks from behind without looking, and still using specialized techniques without batting an eye or thinking.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

And do you mind showing more feats for Vermin regarding his cutting resistance,(he isn't bulletproof, so cutting attacks should be effective) blunt force durability,and overall physicals?(he got beaten down by Captain America, and based off feats Kenshin is in his ballpark if not beyond it) Because the scans you showed seemed to be missing context.

  • Scan 1: Fights evenly with Lizard. This is only one scan of a brief struggle, so and going only based off this scan, its hard to tell if its even or if one side is winning.
  • Scan 2: Beats down on Spidey although Spidey was caught by suprise. Same as above, plus in the other encounters, Spiderman has proved to be faster than he is. Spiderman, was overall winning the fight once he stopped holding back, thanks to Vermin's natural ability. Vermin couldn't do a thing, Pete would have killed him if it wasn't for someone intervening. Also in the same story this is from, Kraven while dressed as Spiderman managed to completely overpower and beat him down and Kraven isn't on Kenshin's level at all I also want to add that in that same issue Peter just came back from being in what was essentially a 2 week coma,(Kraven drugged him and put him in a death like state) so he wasn't at his best at all
  • Scan 3: His bites cause Cap blinding pain. Funnily enough in this same issue, Cap was beating the everlasting crap out of him, for the same reasons Spidey was
  • Scan 4: Makes Cap more animalistic which greatly affected his skill. I read this issue, it was a pretty short term fight, do you have any other examples?
  • Scan 5: Controls rats to attack his father this would probably be super effective against Pikachu since Pikachu is a rat, more on this later. I hope you do elaborate on this, because I know Vermin can control other animals as well,(i remember in the Marvel team up issue Marvel Team-Up #128 - Sweet Temptation!, Vermin was also controlling dogs IIRC) but I wanna see how that translates to "animals" like Pokemon that have far higher levels of comprehension and intelligence than real life animals, some of them even having TP resistance feats....

So based off what he has shown consistently he is at best Captain America level. Characters like Spiderman have proven to be above him significantly consistently in terms of physicals, so in the scenario that Vermin's ability doesn't affect Kenshin, he honestly wouldn't even be able to lay a hand on Kenshin.

Conclusion

Pikachu goes wild and uses up his energy missing attacks and fighting his own team. Then once he loses all his energy he gets taken out by my team (probably by Darkhawk because there is no way Pikachu is hitting an agile, invisible opponent in rage mode).

Alright tell me if you heard this one,(you can skip this if you want,a TLDR version is down below) a genetically engineered bio-weapon, a pokemon and a wandering swordsman walk into a bar, and the bartender asks them what they think about the three guys on the far side of the bar "Darkhawk, Vermin and Shocker" The Bio-Weapon laughs at them being too fast for her, because she has feats of keeping up with high-end bullet timers consistently, the swordsman confidently says "is that all" while remembering the time he blitzed a man who could react to gatling gun fire, while the Pokemon in another language that nobody understood remembers the time it managed to dodge an energy based attack from a latios that was moving towards him at full speed, then jump onto it as its moving. the same pokemon stated to be faster than a jet. So when they hear the claim that they cannot close the distance they all laugh simultaneously.

The bartender then suggests that Vermin could screw up their skill or mental capabilities by turning them rabid, Pikachu tells the bartender in another langauge of the time he resisted a mind control device that not even a legendary could resist at first, Kenshin boasts about his enhanced senses based on Ki/Chi that would give him an edge over those Vermin's ability has effected, while Eve talks about how she has been trapped in a world of illusions by a scientist who can make illusions a reality. (Plus ruining her skill with her ability would do more harm than good since it would make her powers out of control and make her harder to beat, because she would go for more deadly killing moves without regard to Vermin or any of your team member's lives.)

The bartender then mentions how the team can go invisible, and Pikachu and Kenshin respectively talk about their enhanced senses in detail and how they have dealt with those who have attempted stealth or invisibility on them. Pikachu who has managed to tag enemies in pitch black darkness and have used the darkness to his advantage to beat other opponents who couldn't see in the dark. Pikachu also mentions how as soon as the fight starts would open with Thunder which is an anti-team technique which is perfect for crowd control. And nobody on the team would be able to tank that. I already showed the range and AOE of Pikachu's attacks.

To sum up all this nonsense. TLDR VERSION

  • My team is fast enough and agile enough to close the distance
  • Pikachu's first wave of attacks should easily fry or short circuit any cloaking devices your team has, even if it doesn't, Pikachu and Kenshin have enhanced senses to AT LEAST detect where attacks are coming from and have methods to detect, take away or reveal your position.
  • In an honest to god direct battle, your team stands no chance. Darkhawk gets hacked or chopped up by Eve, Pikachu easily takes out Shocker, and Kenshin easily takes out Vermin.
  • The biggest thing that makes your team a threat is Vermin's passive ability to make people more aggressive and instinctive, this ability takes time till it truly f***s up someone skill and thinking, and it arguably wouldn't do much against those who's skills rely on muscle memory. The only issue is that it would make people more bloodlusted than normal. The only person who this should really affect is Pikachu and it should only affect Eve due to her abilities being linked to her concentration and thinking. It won't really change much with Pikachu because Pikachu's thunder attacks have a long range and a lot of AOE so as soon as the fight starts pikachu's attacks would already reach Vermin before it takes a toll on his aim.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#12 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#13 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

Top Team Starts far left. Bottom team starts far right.

On the map you bee in sight.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#14 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Closing Counters:

Good question, and I have an answer.

In a dick measuring contest with his friend Piplup, uses his thunder bolt to skyrocket past the mountains on the islands and reach thunderclouds

Manages to tag a far away hot air balloon that was running rampant..

Also to show off more feats, Pikachu while relying on his senses, had to fight a flying pokemon with psychic abilities with his eyes closed, and used his hearing alone to effectively tag it.

Hmm, very well then.

Reacting to a bullet the instant it impacts her skin, keeping up with bullet deflectors that are on Train Heartnet's level, forcing Train to block with his gun and etc. What I shown alone is decent. I don't recall any of your characters bullet deflecting(your speed section for shocker was basically "i'm a spiderman rouge so I am automatically in the same ballpark regarding speed")

Just a side note, I have no idea who Train is so there's that. Also, if that's what you got from my post then you need to look at the scans I posted. Shockjer is very clearly in Peter's ballpark using feats.

Also another neat trick she has is her Nano Blades, that she can use against Darkhawk, is to shred his armor at a molecular level. Here she cuts up guys wearing armor that is resistant to bullets and even grenades,(several of them survived Eve's attacks easily, and it took Train's railgun to smash through said armor)

How will she find him?

Eve is plenty fast IMO. Not exactly as fast as Train and Sven, but she can pull her weight. This is especially including her flight speed.

I'm, skipping over the mini RT. I mostly just see casual bullet timing feats which is around Peter's speed

No Caption Provided

And again Shocker keeps up with Spidey. So no blitzing here.

Lol didn't think i'd have to, here's some more from his RTs.

Impressive. It would probably take a prolonged blast from Darkhawk to put him down.

You never showed any scans in your opener of Shocker having invisibility tech or cloaks.

Maybe because I was talking about Darkhawk?

Doesn't Vermin have to bite him in order to mess with Kenshin's mind? Plus like I said, Kenshin has dealt with a similar technique and resisted it through sheer force of will.

No. I showed the scan of Spidey saying just being around him poisons the mind.

And what mental resistances did Spidey and Cap have back then to support this claim?

Glad you asked.

No Caption Provided

That is Cap showing off his mental defenses to an omega level telepath. A telepath that regularly stomps Emma Frost level characters and messes with Wolverine. And here is Spidey fighting off a telepath

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

That telepath is one who could casually control and kill people even as a child.

No Caption Provided

A pokemon and a simple rat, are two entirely different specimens,

He is literally the mouse Pokemon.

No Caption Provided

if anything Pikachu gets the Cap treatment. Especially because, although there are multiple examples, I want to get this post done as soon as possible so these were the quickest ones I could find. Pikachu out of several Pokemon AND TRAINERS, was the only one to truly resist mind control. Watch the entire episode if you want but it should be marked already around 15:30

Cool. But Both Cap and Spidey have resisted telapathy and were affected.

You really don't have a solid basis on that. Plus as soon as the fight starts Pikachu will have already thrown out a thunder attack

Right. Because that is how he starts all fights in character.

before Vermin's powers could take a serious effect, and the initial wave of attacks from Pikachu won't be avoidable since you guys will start within sight on the ground and the AOE of his moves will make it so it would be hard to miss the first few shots. Pikachu's attacks should easily fry Shocker's and Darkhawk's cloaking tech.

Darkhawk's shields resist lightning and he can use it to protect his team as well so they are fine.

No Caption Provided

Still haven't provided sufficient information or proof on your basis. You haven't even shown how fast Vermin's abilities activate.

They don't activate. They are passive.

It actually does, Eve's only really selling point is her versatility, she isn't all that in terms of physicals save speed, but she has the versatility to easily destroy your main flyer via nanomachine technology which can not only easily hack into your suit, but as I showed you already, can easily dice it up via Nano Blades that can cut at a molecular level, easily outmaneuver Shocker with reaction time that can allow her to react to minigun fire and wings that grant flight.

How is she finding him again? Also Spidey can react to that fast yet Shocker gives him good battles. Here is another scan of Spidey dodging bullets point blank.

No Caption Provided

Scan 1: Fights evenly with Lizard. This is only one scan of a brief struggle, so and going only based off this scan, its hard to tell if its even or if one side is winning.

The fight lasted so long that they were exhausted and easily taken down by Puma and Black Cat.

No Caption Provided

Scan 2: Beats down on Spidey although Spidey was caught by suprise. Same as above, plus in the other encounters, Spiderman has proved to be faster than he is. Spiderman, was overall winning the fight once he stopped holding back, thanks to Vermin's natural ability. Vermin couldn't do a thing, Pete would have killed him if it wasn't for someone intervening.

Yet Vermin looked unharmed after.

No Caption Provided

Also in the same story this is from, Kraven while dressed as Spiderman managed to completely overpower and beat him down and Kraven isn't on Kenshin's level at all I also want to add that in that same issue Peter just came back from being in what was essentially a 2 week coma,(Kraven drugged him and put him in a death like state) so he wasn't at his best at all

1. Kraven is called Kraven the hunter. He specializes in killing and taking down animals, which Vermin is. 2. Kraven would stomp Kenshin. 3. Evevn if Peter wasn't ion his best in this issue Vermin has fought him before, the whole reason Kraven fought Vermin was to prove he was better than Spidey because Vermin beat Spidey IIRC (Google said these are the scans but I can't be 100%).

Scan 3: His bites cause Cap blinding pain. Funnily enough in this same issue, Cap was beating the everlasting crap out of him, for the same reasons Spidey was

The bite did cause Cap pain, that is ll I said and all I claimed.

Scan 4: Makes Cap more animalistic which greatly affected his skill. I read this issue, it was a pretty short term fight, do you have any other examples?

You've kinda been posting examples. He made Cap and Spidey fight like savages and spam hits. Although if you really need more I can go get some, not sure why you would though.

Scan 5: Controls rats to attack his father this would probably be super effective against Pikachu since Pikachu is a rat, more on this later. I hope you do elaborate on this, because I know Vermin can control other animals as well,(i remember in the Marvel team up issue Marvel Team-Up #128 - Sweet Temptation!, Vermin was also controlling dogs IIRC) but I wanna see how that translates to "animals" like Pokemon that have far higher levels of comprehension and intelligence than real life animals, some of them even having TP resistance feats....

Vermin can affect all creatures, rats especially. Pikachu might have some resistance as he is smarter but he is still going to be greatly affected, even more so than Cap and Spidey were.

So based off what he has shown consistently he is at best Captain America level. Characters like Spiderman have proven to be above him significantly consistently in terms of physicals, so in the scenario that Vermin's ability doesn't affect Kenshin, he honestly wouldn't even be able to lay a hand on Kenshin.

More like morals off Cap level as he would destroy a normal Cap. Also he has no cutting feats in the molecular level.

Conclusion

The bartender than asks who a small building buster and a guy who is supposedly above Cap and Kraven is so cheap.

To conclude no one in your team stands a chance against Pikachu. Pikachu would turn rabid from the start. Your team dies. His TP resistance is nothing. Vermin's ability would work in a snap of his fingers (as you can see here he summons a rat army near instantly, yeah Pikachu might last 5 seconds before the ability takes affect but still far before you can do anything).

And to put things as simple as possible, it does not matter if your team beats mine. Because if Vermin can make Pikachu rabid in 5 seconds (which I have proved) then your team gets zapped and dies. That's really the only factor in this fight, everything else is just an add on.

Avatar image for anthp2000
#15 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28484 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me palz

Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#16 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Btw, when is the next round due? Because if it is gonna be a while then regardless of who wins this match, DH61 should move on.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#17 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deathhero61
#19 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deathhero61
#21 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Final Post.

No Caption Provided

Counters

Just a side note, I have no idea who Train is so there's that. Also, if that's what you got from my post then you need to look at the scans I posted. Shockjer is very clearly in Peter's ballpark using feats.

Oh I forgot, my bad. Welp. Train Heartnet is the main character of the series, and he's pretty damn fast.

Speed: In the first chapter of the series he was deflecting bullets like they were nothing.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Speed/Marksman: Shoots fast into both barrels of a shooter's guns before he can fire a single bullet

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Speed Feat: Train has also dodged machine gun rounds effortlessly while simultaneously tagging the shooters:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Speed/Marksmanship: He turns and intercepts bullets from across a ballroom.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Train has the reflexes to dodge punches from a guy who's fast enough to not only create afterimages, but can punch hard and fast enough to create a projectile.

Basically performs Iai-Ken, punching someone at legit FTE speeds.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here's him creating afterimages and producing mach speed projectiles from a distance with speed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

In his actual fight with him, he dodged several of his punches and even went FTE against him

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

This guy is name River, and he specializes in a technique called Garbell Commando. A sort of military/mercenary martial arts that specializes in close quarters combat, if one ever runs out of ammunition, they simply charge and blitz their opponent with specialized hand to hand techniques. According to River a bullet has never touched his skin.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But Train showcasing his usual reflexes and finesse pulled this off.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11Gallery image 12Gallery image 13Gallery image 14Gallery image 15Gallery image 16Gallery image 17

I think this is enough, Train has also reacted to a grenade going off in his face, and has other neat feats. But he should be as fast as Spiderman if not faster.

How will she find him?

Her friends Pikachu and Kenshin will help.

I'm, skipping over the mini RT. I mostly just see casual bullet timing feats which is around Peter's speed

When Spiderman has the reaction speed to act or perform the instant a bullet touches his skin, come back to me.

And again Shocker keeps up with Spidey. So no blitzing here.

Ehhh, tagging him isn't really that impressive, its not like he's as fast as Wolverine or Captain America, who are both a good deal below Spiderman in speed. Vermin himself has tagged Spiderman, and I already showed you scans showing the difference in speed between them.

Maybe because I was talking about Darkhawk?

I'm not gonna bother quoting you on the multiple comments in your post that lead me to that conclusion, since you just confirmed only Darkhawk is going invisible, which means, he's honestly the only threat and that's only because he's invisible.

He is literally the mouse Pokemon.

That's some crappy logic. By that reasoning Vermin's ability can affect Krypto or the Green Lantern Circa, and etc. etc. Showings of affecting Pokemon with actual TP feats and far more intelligence than normal animals or take that crud somewhere else.

if anything Pikachu gets the Cap treatment.Especially because, although there are multiple examples, I want to get this post done as soon as possible so these were the quickest ones I could find. Pikachu out of several Pokemon AND TRAINERS, was the only one to truly resist mind control. Watch the entire episode if you want but it should be marked already around 15:30

Cool. But Both Cap and Spidey have resisted telapathy and were affected.

..... Read the underlined.

Right. Because that is how he starts all fights in character.

Actually it is. In the anime that was literally his only move when he first appeared asides from tackling someone with his body....its his go to move all the time, again another thing I didn't think i'd have to prove. That's like saying Deadshot won't go for his guns in character. It doesn't make any sense.

https://streamable.com/ibrt0(immediately starts off with a thundershock and oneshots a geodude)

https://streamable.com/rsph6( Responds to Charizard's flamethrower attack with a thundershock)

Darkhawk's shields resist lightning and he can use it to protect his team as well so they are fine.

Won't stop the raw force of his attacks... you showed no impressive defensive feats that would help him against Pikachu's attacks.

They don't activate. They are passive.

Sorry, not what I meant. I meant how long it takes to take affect. Which is a decent amount of time before it starts to affect skill and precision and emotions.

How is she finding him again? Also Spidey can react to that fast yet Shocker gives him good battles. Here is another scan of Spidey dodging bullets point blank.

A rogue giving a good guy good battles is normal, Flash's rogue gallery does the same thing, and so does Invincible's(image comics). Now it seems you are blantly giving Shocker Spidey's feats....In Eve's case there's a basis to my scaling, her keeping up with other mid-tiers of the verse, and even coming out on top. Train even directly compared Eve to a bunch of expert sweepers(bounty hunters)

No Caption Provided

River even agrees with Train later on when seeing her in action, admitting that he underestimated her.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I already showed her reacting to bullets herself, and keeping up with skilled bullet timers.

The fight lasted so long that they were exhausted and easily taken down by Puma and Black Cat.

Yet Vermin looked unharmed after.

He's still gets KO'd by those weaker than the Lizard....like Captain America for example....

Just because bruises and scratches weren't drawn on him doesn't mean he was unharmed. The fact that someone had to stop him before Spiderman killed him proves Vermin wasn't going to make it out of that fight unscathed.

1. Kraven is called Kraven the hunter. He specializes in killing and taking down animals, which Vermin is. 2. Kraven would stomp Kenshin. 3. Evevn if Peter wasn't ion his best in this issue Vermin has fought him before, the whole reason Kraven fought Vermin was to prove he was better than Spidey because Vermin beat Spidey IIRC (Google said these are the scans but I can't be 100%).

Kraven isn't as physically strong as Captain America or Spiderman, at least to my knowledge, yet he was able to overpower and outmaneuver him. Proving his fight against the likes of the Lizard is inconsistent.

You've kinda been posting examples. He made Cap and Spidey fight like savages and spam hits. Although if you really need more I can go get some, not sure why you would though.

You made it sound like it was a groundbreaking maneuver, you make my characters bloodlusted savages....you literally do not benefit from that. Pikachu would spam his ranged attacks, EVEN MORE. Kenshin would get bloodlusted and go for killing moves right off the bat, and considering Vermin has no cutting resistance he gets bisected in a single slash, and turning Eve bloodlusted means her powers get a huge boost, and she goes for killing moves with her nanoblades.

Vermin can affect all creatures, rats especially. Pikachu might have some resistance as he is smarter but he is still going to be greatly affected, even more so than Cap and Spidey were.

Let me ask you something, would you claim that Vermin could control Arceus, Diagla, Palkia, Mew, Kyogre, Rayquaza, etc.? Just because they are animals? Those guys are far above his paygrade, both mentally and physically. Same goes for Pikachu...need more feats my dude.

Pikachu would turn rabid from the start. Your team dies. His TP resistance is nothing. Vermin's ability would work in a snap of his fingers (as you can see here he summons a rat army near instantly, yeah Pikachu might last 5 seconds before the ability takes affect but still far before you can do anything).

That's literally all he needs lmao. With the distance they travel, Pikachu's attack would already be launched before the 5 seconds is up. Your team is dead.

I could have easily bomb dropped feats and go into more detail as to why your team is honestly inferior, but your strategy hinges on Vermin...nothing else. Darkhawk isn't much of a threat, neither is Shocker. Your cloaking devices get fried after the first thunderbolt, then my team blitzes and overpowers yours.(And I posted enough feats to back this much) BTW doesn't Vermin also put your own team at risk? Something to think about.

Avatar image for deathhero61
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#23 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deathhero61
#24 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: MH said to open for votes after my post. And we both had three posts soooo yeah.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#26 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: @zetsumoto: Yeah. Votes is open.

Btw DH61. In case you didn't see my earlier post, regardless of the votes you will continue on.

P.S. Seriously though, how is your team so cheap? Lol.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#27 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm said:

@deathhero61: @zetsumoto: Yeah. Votes is open.

Btw DH61. In case you didn't see my earlier post, regardless of the votes you will continue on.

P.S. Seriously though, how is your team so cheap? Lol.

My team is perfectly fair TBH. Eve although she has great versatility she has shit physical strength and durability, and doesn't have much battle experience(although she was forced to observe soldiers on the battlefield as a way to study for combat) Kenshin's awesome but he's only selling point is his speed and skill, everything else is meh. If anything Pikachu is my only "cheap" character due to firepower.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#28 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Yeah but like Cap level is 4. Right? And Eve can like cut molecules while Kenshin supposedly blitzes Cap IIRC. Just an observation, I know my team is a little on the cheap side as well (specifically Vermin and Darkhawk).

Avatar image for deathhero61
#29 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm said:

@deathhero61: Yeah but like Cap level is 4. Right? And Eve can like cut molecules while Kenshin supposedly blitzes Cap IIRC. Just an observation, I know my team is a little on the cheap side as well (specifically Vermin and Darkhawk).

Kenshin is more impressive speedwise than Cap IMO but Cap's strength feats should beat Kenshin's, even then, I never understood why SFW had Kenshin as a 1 pointer. He should at least be a 2 pointer when you account his skill and speed. I don't really understand why Cap is a 4 though.

Eve in character almost never uses her nano-blades lethally, only to destroy armor and weapons. She's gotten more skilled by the end of the series, but she is still a sweeper, she doesn't kill and activately goes out of her way not to kill. Any skilled bullet timer on her level of speed(which I was hyping up admittedly) that has a severely larger amount of experience should be able to beat her in overall battle before she busts out her best moves.

My last team would have cleaned house here easily without much opposition, if you think this team is cheap. Replace Eve and Pikachu with Sven and Edward and you'd have a guy who's fairly hard to tag, and Edward who can manipulate the battlefield to his liking while having a fair level of stats.

Next round I'll choose a more balanced out team to keep things simple. Just so I don't cheese a win with characters nobody here knows a thing about...

Not gonna lie, Vermin was interesting, I may make use of him in another tourney if I can find characters that can deal with his passive ability.

Avatar image for deathhero61
Avatar image for revan-
#31 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#32 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta give my vote to @deathhero61. I feel like every single one of his characters was about 1 point cheaper than they should have been. At least when compared to Hellstorm's. Hellstorm's best tactic was trying to take advantage of Pikachu's status as a mouse type pokemon, but Deathhero brought up a good point in that Pikachu's intelligence is much higher than a normal rat's would be and he has also shown a large degree of telepathic resistance.

Hellstorm brought up the fact that Cap and Spidey also had TP resistance, but his earlier scan kind of rendered that moot, since Pikachu doesn't really have the types of emotional issues that Captain and Spiderman have. From what I can tell from this CaV, Vermin's affinity with rats and stray dogs is specifically because of their feral nature. Pikachu is probably the most tame, docile, and pampered pokemon in the entirety of the series. His upbringing is about as far from the hard life of a sewer rat or stray dog as you can get.

As for his effect on Deathhero's other characters. I feel like it would only bloodlust them and make them more dangerous than they already are. Especially Kenshin.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#34 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: thanks for voting.

And you're not wrong regarding Kenshin and Pikachu being at least 1 point more. But SFW always says its the debater not the character, anybody could have argued Pikachu being inconsistent,(hell he could have argued that Pikachu's firepower is inconsistent and that it isn't always as powerful as some of the gifs I shown) Eve honestly wouldn't beat a competent or skilled enough 3 or 4 pointer(and that's most of the roster IMO) so I think Eve being 2-3 points is fair,(BTW I was hyping her up regarding speed, she may be able to keep up with Train and and other fast characters but she's not entirely as fast as they are, only in their ballpark but that's my fault for scan dumping in the last post, he could have easily looked into my characters and look at my past debates and see that Eve is in Train's ballpark similar to how Shocker can tag Spidey.) I even showed SFW the last CAV I used Eve in and he agreed with my assertion that Eve is about 2-3 points without even digging into deeper details) I can't make arguments for my opponents, its up to them to pressure me and ask questions or even look for context. That's what I do whenever I debate.

I can debate against my own characters with his team If I wanted to and put up a hell of a fight. People just have no deep knowledge on the characters I use, and now I made it my habit to search up people's characters once they cite the issue/episode/chapter etc. Then look up number of appearances and so on and so on.

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#35 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: To be honest, your respect thread posts are kinda tedious to flip through, so I can see why he would just take your word for it. lmao

As for Pikachu, I think everyone knows Pikachu is in consistent. I have always considered CaVs to involve characters when they are at their best (obviously while still behaving in character though)

Avatar image for deathhero61
#36 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: To be honest, your respect thread posts are kinda tedious to flip through, so I can see why he would just take your word for it. lmao

Lol would you prefer if I vaguely give info regarding my character and show few scans? Plus short term(Black Cat was only 185 chapters) manga characters almost always have all their feats in a few fights.

As for Pikachu, I think everyone know's Pikachu is inconsistent. I have always considered CaVs to involve characters when they are at their best (obviously while still behaving in character though)

Meh, he could have contested that, but even then Pikachu still has enough firepower to deal serious damage when you look at his average showings.

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#37 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: You should show scans on an as needed basis. It rarely takes me more than 3 scans to give a decent idea of what a character is capable of in a certain category. If your opponent requests more, then you give it.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#38 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: Hmmm fair enough. I'll try to do that from now on.

Avatar image for thewatcherking
#39 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta give my vote to @deathhero61. I feel like every single one of his characters was about 1 point cheaper than they should have been. At least when compared to Hellstorm's. Hellstorm's best tactic was trying to take advantage of Pikachu's status as a mouse type pokemon, but Deathhero brought up a good point in that Pikachu's intelligence is much higher than a normal rat's would be and he has also shown a large degree of telepathic resistance.

Hellstorm brought up the fact that Cap and Spidey also had TP resistance, but his earlier scan kind of rendered that moot, since Pikachu doesn't really have the types of emotional issues that Captain and Spiderman have. From what I can tell from this CaV, Vermin's affinity with rats and stray dogs is specifically because of their feral nature. Pikachu is probably the most tame, docile, and pampered pokemon in the entirety of the series. His upbringing is about as far from the hard life of a sewer rat or stray dog as you can get.

As for his effect on Deathhero's other characters. I feel like it would only bloodlust them and make them more dangerous than they already are. Especially Kenshin.

Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#41 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Also I did think Eve wasn't as fast as you made her out to be and you spammed Pikachu feats, and I know from the anime that Pikachu consistently busts Team Rocket's absurd machines so he really isthat OP.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: Btw, what do you mean by my scan mooting my point? If you mean the last panel about bringing out night terrors and stuff, the doctor was talking about Vermin, not Cap or Spidey (99% sure Cap grew up in a normal family).

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#43 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31796 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: She was explaining why she is able to handle Vermin’s aura while spiderman wasn’t. She specifically said that some people haven’t built up the same defenses, and that it has to do with not being “sufficiently nurtured”

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#44 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: Actually the point of the first and last panels were to show that she cared for Vemin and that is how she was bypassing ths poison. She was describing Vermin's life (from one of my scans you can see him attacking his dad as he was mistreated). Like I said, at that point in time Cap's origin was free of any significant child hood pain. So it wouldn't make sense for her to say that about him.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#45 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Also I did think Eve wasn't as fast as you made her out to be and you spammed Pikachu feats, and I know from the anime that Pikachu consistently busts Team Rocket's absurd machines so he really isthat OP.

She's nowhere near as fast as Train's max, she's on his tier, but not on his max, but like I said that's my fault for scan dumping in the last post and not giving you a chance to reply.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#46 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Is this tourney dead? Let me know if it is, so I don't randomly get some tag for the next round.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#47 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Is this tourney dead? Let me know if it is, so I don't randomly get some tag for the next round.

yes this one is dead.