Street Level Live Action Tournament R2: JSDoctor vs. Defiant_Will

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geekryan

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#1  Edited By geekryan

@jsdoctor

Characters:

  • CW R'as al Ghul
  • Blade

Perks:

  • Adamantium Weapon (10) - Blade
  • Mind Link (5)
No Caption Provided


@defiant_will

Characters:

  • MCU Okoye
  • MCU M'Baku

Perks:

  • Full Knowledge (9)
  • Mind Link (5)

Tournament Rules

  • FOX characters are composite (with one exception: Nightcrawler)
  • Feats from tie-in comics are allowed
  • Standard Gear (i.e. regularly uses the gear)
  • Victory by KO, death, or incap only
  • Everyone is in character but determined to win
  • Characters keep the knowledge they already have
  • Character personalities/history are a factor (i.e. Green Arrow and Prometheus will NOT get along if on the same team)
  • All bow/arrow characters come with a quiver of 20 standard arrows, 2 grappling hook arrows, 1 ensnaring net arrow, and 1 flashbang arrow
  • All guns are fully loaded but with no extra ammo or clips
  • Agents of SHIELD characters have their ICERS replaced with handguns (if it is standard for them)
  • No time manipulation of any kind will be allowed (i.e. from Eva Sharpe and Rip Hunter)
  • With prep, each individual character still needs to lose a majority to MCU Captain America in a 1v1 fight
  • Prep takes place in a combined universe
  • If you choose a gear perk for a character that has never used the gear, they will not automatically have mastery over the gear
  • No outside help is allowed into the battlefield (AKA you can't bring in fodder or other characters from prep)
  • 3 posts each with a 14 day limit per post. You will be bumped after 7 days. Extensions may be allowed if you tell me and your opponent before the 14 day limit is over.
  • Link to the tournament

Voting Rules

  • Only the two participants are allowed to debate
  • If you want to be tagged to vote at the end, say "T4V"
  • Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win
  • Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote
  • Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted
  • Be respectful, honourable, and civil

Battlefield

Starting distance is 100 feet. Out of view from the other team. Opposite sides of a dark warehouse. Assume that the height of the warehouse is 100 feet.

No Caption Provided

Best of luck!

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TAEP.

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@geekryan: seriously, how come blade is allowed and each character "needs to lose to MCU cap for majority"?

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@apex_pretador: Blade would lose to MCU Cap... But let the debaters do their thing before you make comments about their characters

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@geekryan: Not to derail the debate but I must ask: You don't seriously believe that Blade would lose to Captain America do you?

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#11  Edited By geekryan

@sawed_off_it: I’m not getting into this while the debate has started.

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@geekryan:

T4V

We could maybe CaV it one day. Certainly interesting.

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JSDoctor

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#14  Edited By JSDoctor

Blade & Ra's Al Ghul: Opener

No Caption Provided

Introduction

I'm going to split this opener into five parts and a conclusion. First, I'm going to give brief general introductions to my two characters, for any readers who may be unfamiliar with them. Then I'll outline what my perks are and roughly how they will be used. After that, I'm going to cover the first of two scenarios for how the battle unfolds: a ranged scenario. In this, I'll show why my team's combination of speed, stealth, gear and perks make them substantially more effective than Defiant's. Fourthly, I'll show why Blade would beat either Okoye or M'Baku in melee combat, and finally I'll do the same for Ra's Al Ghul.

Character Introductions

Blade (1998-2004 Films)

Eric Brooks is the son of Vanessa Brooks, a nurse who was attacked and bitten by a vampire while in pregnancy. Eric was born while his mother was dying, inheriting some of the vampire's abilities. Young Eric lived most of his life on the streets, until the day he's attacked by Abraham Whistler, a vampire hunter who mistakes him for a true vampire. However, when understanding the nature of the child, Whistler takes him with himself. Eric, who now calls himself Blade, is trained by Whistler to become the most lethal vampire hunter ever.

- https://marvel-movies.fandom.com/wiki/Eric_Brooks

As a combatant, Blade complements his excellent skill and superhuman physical abilities with enhanced senses, a limited healing factor, and a wide variety of deadly gear for both close-quarters and ranged combat.

Ra's Al Ghul (CW's Arrow TV Show)

Ra's al Ghul is the leader of the ancient League of Assassins. Having lived for hundreds of years, he has honed his skills to an incredible level and is a deadly combatant. He has personally trained esteemed fighters such as Oliver Queen, Sara Lance, Nyssa al Ghul, Talia al Ghul, Malcolm Merlyn and Al-Owal. His death came at the hands of Oliver Queen in Arrow Season 3.

In addition to his incredible skill and peak human physicals, Ra's possesses superhuman speed and his unique Demon's Head sword.

Perks

Adamantium Weapon - Blade

Blade has an adamantium version of his standard sword, greatly enhancing the damage that he can deal with his blows. It will also allow him to parry Okoye's Vibranium weapon, and give him an advantage over M'Baku's Jabari weapon. This will be particularly important for close-quarters combat, though Blade has also used his sword as a throwing weapon before.

Mind Link

Blade and Ra's have connected minds. This means that any information acquired by one will be instantly known by the other, and they can communicate throughout the battle. This will be particularly important for the ranged battle.

Scenario 1: The Ranged Battle

In this section, I intend to show why Blade alone can win this battle from range, particularly with Ra's backing him up. My team's strategy will be for Ra's to search for Okoye & M'Baku, relaying their position to Blade via their mind link. Blade can then either take them out or put a significant amount of pressure on them.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

First, let's look at Ra's' stealth capabilities. To establish a baseline, even fodder League of Assassins members are able to appear seemingly out of nowhere within about 1.4 seconds.

The Flash 2x08
The Flash 2x08

This already shows a high degree of stealth, which Defiant's team really has no way of dealing with. The Wakandans have no feats or statements that relate to stealth, and certainly not on the high level which even fodder league members operate on. But as if that weren't enough, there are two additional factors which compound Ra's' advantage here.

First, I want to establish exactly what his objective in this part of the battle is - and that is simply to establish where his opponents are. He can keep his distance, meaning that he doesn't even have to get close to Okoye & M'Baku - he only has to observe them. This makes detecting him even harder, as he won't be in proximity to them.

Second, there's the fact that the feat presented above was for fodder LoA members. They are absolutely nothing in comparison to Ra's Al Ghul, the centuries-old leader of the League of Assassins, and he scales to a level far above even this impressive baseline. We never really saw the limits of his stealth capabilities on-screen. His best feats are presented below, however.

In the first gif he sneaks up on a group of mobsters without being seen (whilst impersonating the Arrow), and in the second he stands in Thea Queen's apartment without being noticed until she turns around and sees him, dropping her glass in shock. It's worth noting that she had received substantial League-style training from Malcolm Merlyn and Oliver Queen at this point, which places more of an emphasis on stealth than anything that we've seen from the Dora Milaje of the Jabari tribe.

Between these feats, the scaling to extremely low-level LoA foot soldiers and the fact that Ra's will be keeping his distance, he will be able to identify the position of the Wakandans without being spotted very quickly. Due to his mind link with Blade, this information will be instantly transferred to him.

There are two things to consider when thinking about how quickly this process will happen. First, there's the fact that the fodder LoA feat presented above was performed in about 1.4 seconds. Ra's' should certainly be faster than this. Second, there's the fact that his travel speed is blatantly superhuman. Below we see him move faster than the eye can perceive in a literal blur of motion.

Arrow 3x19
Arrow 3x19

I also want to show why this is consistent for Ra's - because yes, it is the only time he demonstrated this speed on the show. But it's also the only time that he ever actually needed to travel quickly or run. In the above gif, he had to catch Thea before she escaped. There was no other instance on the show where Ra's actually needed to close a gap so whilst this is his only showing of this level of speed, it is also true that every time he needed to travel quickly, he did so at superhuman speeds. Defiant may take issue with this is he would like to, but if so then I would challenge him to present an instance of Ra's running or travelling quickly without using this speed.

From this, it is clear that Ra's will observe Okoye & M'Baku in a short period of time without being detected, and pass this information on to Blade via their mind link. He essentially acts as an incredibly efficient scout.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So now let's consider what Blade will do with this information. He has five distinct advantages that will allow him to hold an advantage at range, even if Ra's didn't pass on the information about their opponents' location.

His first advantage is his ability to bypass cover. As can be seen in the gif below, Blade's thrown projectiles can make steep turns so hiding behind shelves/walls won't help Defiant's team at all. It also means that Blade could use the projectiles if he was pinned down behind cover (though he won't be, as Ra's' information will allow him to get the drop on the Wakandans and they don't really have any ranged options).

No Caption Provided

This gif also highlights his range - the above projectile probably travelled around 100 feet, which is the starting distance for this battle. It means that he will be able to tag his opponents with these. By contrast, the complete lack of ranged gear from the Wakandans means that they have no way of fighting from this distance.

It's also the first of two showings of Blade's accuracy that I want to highlight, as he hits around 5 vampires on two different levels of a building. This shows great precision in combination with the range and manoeuvrability of his projectiles. The second accuracy showing I want to present is below.

No Caption Provided

Blade hits three vampires in a single line, and manages to avoid a fourth standing directly next to them in the same line, another great showing of precision. It also shows that it's in-character for Blade to target people's necks. M'Baku's suit doesn't protect his neck at all so he is vulnerable here, and only the lower half of Okoye's neck is protected. Note that Ra's will relay this information to Blade via their mind link, which is why he will know to target vulnerable parts of their body.

Next I want to focus on two aspects of Blade's speed. First, his throwing/draw speed. In the gif below, he throws projectiles faster than the eye can perceive in a literal blur.

No Caption Provided

The next two gifs show Blade's throwing speeds. First, we see Deacon Frost bullet-timing incredibly casually. Okoye and M'Baku don't have speed feats anywhere remotely close to this level.

No Caption Provided

Now let's look at what happens when Blade throws a projectile directly at Frost. Note that he was looking at Blade, knew it was coming and was at a similar range to when he bullet-timed. Essentially, there were no confounding factors.

No Caption Provided

He simply cannot react to it, and is surprised when it hits him. This establishes that Okoye & M'Baku won't be able to react to these projectiles either, and certainly not if Blade is throwing multiple at incredibly high speeds.

To summarise this section:

  1. Blade will have the element of surprise due to Ra's' stealth, speed and mind link letting him know the location of the Wakandans.
  2. Blade is able to bypass any cover that Defiant's team may be behind, and can also use his projectiles effectively from behind cover.
  3. Blade's projectiles have good enough range to reach Okoye/M'Baku.
  4. Blade is accurate enough to tag Okoye/M'Baku.
  5. Okoye/M'Baku don't have the speed feats to react to Blade's thrown projectiles, as he is able to tag an extremely casual bullet-timer with them.
  6. The above statement is particularly true given Blade's incredible draw speed, which will allow him to throw multiple projectiles in a very short period of time.
  7. Okoye & M'Baku have no ranged options at all. The closest thing they have to an option is throwing Okoye's spear, which though there is only one of these, it isn't nearly as effective as Blade's projectiles in any way and throwing it would leave her defenceless.

Between these factors, it is perfectly feasible for my team to win the battle at range before Okoye/M'Baku really know what's happening. But I'm going to show why they would win in close-quarters anyway, just in case that's where the battle goes to.

Scenario 2: The Melee Battle (Blade)

Here I'm going to look at the second of the two scenarios presented. First, I'm going to analyse why Blade would beat Okoye or M'Baku in melee, and then I'm going to analyse why Ra's would beat either of them in melee. Note that due to my team's substantial ranged advantages, they won't be harmed when closing the gap.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now let's look at the actual melee fights. The first thing I want to establish is Blade's incredible, superhuman stats. Let's look at his strength first.

No Caption Provided

In the gif above, Blade nonchalantly kicks a vampire across a room and into a thick metal door hard enough to completely knock it down and dent it. He consistently performs similar feats, some of which can be seen below.

  1. Blade ragdolls a fully armoured guard high up into a ceiling hard enough to KO him.
  2. Blade ragdolls a vampire across a room and through a thick wall.
  3. Blade punches a vampire into the ceiling with enough force to kill him in a single strike.

So what does this blatant strength advantage actually mean against M'baku & Okoye? It means two things. First, they're going to have significant problems parrying his hits. If they try to do so, the weapons they use will be pushed back against them. Second, due to his adamantium weapons, it means that he will one-shot either. FOX Wolverine can slice through thick metal walls like butter, and Blade has comparable if not superior strength to him so will have similar damage output with his adamantium sword. In particular, as M'Baku's weapon is only Jabari wood, he'll destroy it with a single strike as soon as either blocks the other's attack. Jabari isn't on the same tier as Vibranium and Adamantium by feats or statements.

Now let's consider his durability.

No Caption Provided

In the above gif, Blade tanks Dracula slamming him into the ground hard enough to not only create a large crater, but also a significant shockwave. He takes such little damage from this that he can then get up and fight with Dracula in his true form, who is probably the most powerful vampire in the entire Blade franchise. To establish consistency:

  1. Blade takes no damage from a massive leap across skyscrapers. This also further illustrates his strength.
  2. Blade takes no damage from a significant fall, probably 5-7 storeys.
  3. Blade absolutely no-sells a hit from a powerful mutant vampire that ragdolls him across a room and high into a metal plate hard enough to dent it.

Between these feats, it's safe to say that M'Baku/Okoye aren't hurting him at all through blunt force.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now I want to consider Blade's skill.

Fight 1: In this first showing, Blade with his sword takes down 7-8 vampires in 9 seconds whilst surrounded, demonstrating not only incredibly speed but also great combat efficiency & skill.

Fight 2: Here, Blade defeats 16 vampires in quick succession without using any weapons, and without being touched except for one point where he is grabbed from behind. This demonstrates, once again, a high level of combat speed and skill.

Fight 3: The above clip is even more impressive. First, Blade takes out 13 armed, armoured and trained vampire guards in 40 seconds without the use of any weapons despite a reach disadvantage. He is only tagged once, when he is grabbed from behind. Next, he picks up an electric baton takes out a further 13 guards in just 20 seconds. This electric baton, as a melee weapon that can one-shot enemies, is pretty comparable to his sword so this is a valid indication of his capabilities with that weapon. Finally, he foddderises another four guards in H2H.

Taking out 13 trained, armed guards in 20 seconds is substantially above any skill feat of Okoye, and so far above M'Baku's level that the two aren't comparable at all.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

VS Okoye:

Against Okoye, Blade holds almost every conceivable advantage. He is more skilled, stronger, more durable and has an adamantium weapon to counter her Vibranium weapon. She is not only vastly outskilled, but won't be able to parry or tank his hits. Her only advantage is her Vibranium-weave armour, but her head and neck are still exposed. Blade is more than willing to target those.

No Caption Provided

Blade is willing to do this in character, and won't hesitate to decapitate or headshot Okoye. Even if that weren't the case, her armour doesn't have durability feats (that I can remember) that would put it's piercing durability above incredibly thick metal like the kind that Wolverine effortlessly cut through in the gif I presented earlier.

VS M'Baku:

M'Baku really has no advantage over Blade. His stats are massively weaker, as is his skill. Even his weapon is inferior for reasons explained above. Without a bladed weapon M'Baku has no way to hurt Blade, whereas Blade will one-shot him. This fight isn't close at all.

Scenario 2: The Melee Battle (Ra's Al Ghul)

The main advantage that Ra's has over Okoye/M'Baku is his absolutely incredible skill. First, I want to establish a baseline with one of the most impressive fodder feats in the Arrowverse.

No Caption Provided

In the above gif, Ra's takes down 8 League assassins in 12 seconds without being touched. They are surrounding him and attacking him simultaneously, but he absolutely fodderises them almost instantaneously. What makes this even more impressive is the caliber of LoA members. Let's look at the following quote from Sara Lance (link):

Digg, you may be a three-tour special forces veteran but I was trained by the people that make the special forces look like a kindergarten class. So step aside or get put down.

She establishes that special forces, who are highly-trained, experienced and efficient members of the military are absolutely negligible compared to the League. With a knowledge of Diggle's on-paper accolades (back in season 2), she also refused to let him fight the League with her because she didn't think that even a soldier with his level of experience would be able to hold his own. As far as fodder goes, the League are highly skilled. But despite that, Ra's utterly destroys 8 of them in 12 seconds. This certainly puts him far above the Wakandans in skill. But he scales to an even higher level than that.

Now I want to establish Nyssa Al Ghul's skill level. In this clip she beats 6 LoA surrounding her and attacking her simultaneously without being touched. She does so again in this clip, so it's safe to say that this is her consistent level. It's already far above Ajax's caliber. Here's how Ra's treats her:

No Caption Provided

He fodderises her in 5 seconds flat. There is absolutely no way that Okoye or M'Baku is outskilling Nyssa that hard.

To solidify his skill advantage even more, here he decimates Oliver under incredibly disadvantageous circumstances. Oliver is armed with two swords, giving him a reach advantage and the ability to one-shot, whilst Ra's is unarmed. Ra's toys with him, controlling the entire fight, disarming him and not being tagged once until he believes that he has won and Oliver catches him off-guard in a desperate, last-ditch attempt. Oliver, even at this point in the show, could take out around 16 trained mercenaries in melee without being touched once. That feat alone puts Oliver significantly above Okoye/M'Baku in pure melee skill. It certainly puts him on the level that they aren't utterly annihilating him the way that Ra's did, especially with the weapons and reach disadvantage that he had.

So how do Ra's' battles against the duo play out?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

VS M'Baku:

M'Baku does admittedly have a stats and weapons advantage against Ra's. But those don't matter if M'Baku doesn't tag Ra's - which he won't. The skill gap between them is simply so massive that M'Baku doesn't have the feats to actually tag Ra's, who wasn't touched by Nyssa Al Ghul and was only tagged once by S3 Oliver Queen (when he believed that Oliver was already defeated). Ra's can one-shot M'Baku considering the following strength feat:

No Caption Provided

Ra's cleanly slices through Oliver's metal sword. M'Baku isn't taking a sword strike this hard to his head or a vital organ. He certainly isn't tagging Ra's at all, or even coming close to it. If an unarmed Ra's could go untouched against S3 Oliver carrying two swords then he isn't even going to have to parry hits. He'll outmanoeuvre M'Baku and take him out incredibly quickly.

VS Widow:

Ra's wins against Okoye due simply to his skill advantage. She doesn't have the feats to go untouched against Nyssa and stomp her in 5 seconds, or even to beat 8 LoA in 12 seconds whilst surrounded. She certainly doesn't have the feats to utterly destroy S3 Oliver the way that Ra's did - whilst unarmed, against an Oliver who is armed with two swords. Just like with M'Baku, he won't even need to parry her hits as he didn't need to parry S3 Oliver's hits for the initial part of the fight, and Okoye doesn't even approach that tier. This means that Ra's will land the first hit, and with his strength and sword he will one-shot her. Note that he is perfectly willing to go for headshots/decapitation in-character as he's the leader of a league of literal assassins.

Conclusion

  • In a ranged battle, Blade & Ra's will win due to Blade's seven distinct advantages as well as the element of surprise, to be secured by Ra's.
  • In melee, Blade beats either combatant due to his impressive skill, adamantium sword and critical strength/durability advantage.
  • In melee, Ra's beats either combatant due primarily to his absolutely incredible skill feats that M'Baku/Okoye don't even come close to.

Whichever way this battle goes, Blade & Ra's have the perfect counters to Okoye & M'Baku's abilities. Even with what I've presented in this opener, the Wakandans aren't going to be able to win against my team. And I do have a few things saved for my later posts...

Defiant_Will - Your move!
Defiant_Will - Your move!
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After reading that I can see Blade beating Cap, I don't know why he is even allowed in this tournament.

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geekryan

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@paulpogba:

During the sign-ups and during the first round of this tournament, literally no one had an issue with Blade.

Sure, he's one of the stronger people in the tournament, but he would most definitely not beat Cap for a majority.

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@geekryan said:

Sure, he's one of the stronger people in the tournament, but he would most definitely not beat Cap for a majority.

He would....... Cap isn't tanking that slam from the Dracula or beating 8 Vampires in seconds while surrounded, and he defo ain't punching a man through a thick metal wall.

That's like Double Juice Bushmaster Level, way above Cap.

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@geekryan said:

Sure, he's one of the stronger people in the tournament, but he would most definitely not beat Cap for a majority.

He would....... Cap isn't tanking that slam from the Dracula or beating 8 Vampires in seconds while surrounded, and he defo ain't punching a man through a thick metal wall.

That's like Double Juice Bushmaster Level, way above Cap.

I'm really not getting into this.

Stop derailing the debate.

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@geekryan: Lol, so you're just gonna leave Blade in and act like it's a fair match up.

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Lmao at people who honestly think MCU Cap would beat Blade.

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Can we please stop derailing the thread? As one of the debaters, I didn't want to get involved in this meta-discussion but I'm going to now.

Sure, Blade VS Cap is debatable and people have different opinions on it. Cap VS FOX Nightcrawler, or fully-geared CW Arrow, or MCU Daredevil with Mirakuru, or FOX Elektra with precognition, or any number of other options in the tournament is also pretty debatable. What matters here is that Blade was on the original list of characters to choose from. I was, IIRC, the seventh person of eight to choose, which means that 6 other viners decided that they could form their best possible team with characters other than Blade. That includes, by the way, Gilgamesh, who chose Widow & Ajax before Blade was taken. And, crucially, no-one in R1 of the tournament or the selection process had any objections to it.

So not only did no-one object, but plenty of people ignored Blade and formed other teams that they preferred. Which is probably why voting in my first debate (against Hawkeye and Nightcrawler with prep) was a 3-2 split. Pretty close, and pretty debatable. I'm just not sure why we now have so many objections despite there being absolutely none in R1 or the signups.

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#24  Edited By geekryan

@jsdoctor said:

Can we please stop derailing the thread? As one of the debaters, I didn't want to get involved in this meta-discussion but I'm going to now.

Sure, Blade VS Cap is debatable and people have different opinions on it. Cap VS FOX Nightcrawler, or fully-geared CW Arrow, or MCU Daredevil with Mirakuru, or FOX Elektra with precognition, or any number of other options in the tournament is also pretty debatable. What matters here is that Blade was on the original list of characters to choose from. I was, IIRC, the seventh person of eight to choose, which means that 6 other viners decided that they could form their best possible team with characters other than Blade. That includes, by the way, Gilgamesh, who chose Widow & Ajax before Blade was taken. And, crucially, no-one in R1 of the tournament or the selection process had any objections to it.

So not only did no-one object, but plenty of people ignored Blade and formed other teams that they preferred. Which is probably why voting in my first debate (against Hawkeye and Nightcrawler with prep) was a 3-2 split. Pretty close, and pretty debatable. I'm just not sure why we now have so many objections despite there being absolutely none in R1 or the signups.

Thank you. Very well said.

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@geekryan: @jsdoctor: Yeah, I'll be real chief, Blade solos both of my members, so I'm going to forfeit the match. The only reason I didn't question him during signups was cause I didn't know about his capabilities.

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Smh what did I tell you guys.....

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@geekryan: @jsdoctor: Yeah, I'll be real chief, Blade solos both of my members, so I'm going to forfeit the match. The only reason I didn't question him during signups was cause I didn't know about his capabilities.

Ok then...

@jsdoctor I'm apprehensive about letting you just pass through only because this tournament only has 3 rounds lol. I might give you a scenario similar to what I gave to Gilgamesh, or I may just face you myself with the team I had chosen in Reserves.

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@geekryan:

I'm apprehensive about letting you just pass through only because this tournament only has 3 rounds lol.

Completely understandable, it wouldn't be fair otherwise.

I might give you a scenario similar to what I gave to Gilgamesh, or I may just face you myself with the team I had chosen in Reserves.

I think a scenario could be interesting, though obviously it's up to you.

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@geekryan: If you want, I could join as a reserve and face JSDoctor

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#31  Edited By geekryan

@defiant_will said:

@geekryan: If you want, I could join as a reserve and face JSDoctor

We can do that. Although you can very easily counter his team since you have his opener to go from.

Is this okay with you @jsdoctor?

If it's fine: Defiant, you can make a team (here is the original thread) and run it by me before getting started!

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Interesting....

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@geekryan: Sure, sounds good to me. Would I be able to get some time to rework my opener once I know @defiant_will's team?

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@jsdoctor:

Opener | The Wakandans

Okoye and M'Baku
Okoye and M'Baku

Now right off the bat this may appear to be an uphill battle for me. And under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have accepted this match, but I have turned a new leaf as a debater and have decided to place less of an emphasis on physicals and more of an emphasis on tactics, character, and skills. Under this criteria, I think Okoye and M'Baku more than make up for the supposed physical disadvantage they are faced with. With that said, let's get this show on the road:

Fighting Mentality

The Tactical Advantage:

Now on the surface, this may seem like a trivial point to discuss, but in the case of this match, I consider this to be a significant factor. You see, unlike Blade and Ra's, Okoye and M'Baku have military experience. And not just experience as a frontline soldier, but as a leader of their respective military factions, leading them into battle and making them work as a unit. Of course, I am referring to Okoye as the general of the Dora Milaje (Wakanda's elite royal guard) and the Jabari (the traditionalist and powerful tribe of Wakanda). Needless to say, Okoye and M'Baku are no strangers to tactical expertise and have on screen showings of this experience coming into play. This is highlighted in the Wakandan civil war where Okoye leads a squad of Dora Milaje against Killmonger and when M'Baku leads his tribe into battle against the Border Tribe.

Starting with the former, we see Okoye shouting out several battle formations during the fight. This is clearly an exemplification of battle expertise because she has to know which formation to will work in which given combat scenario, especially against a physically superior opponent in Killmonger. And while there was a casualty in this battle, Okoye was ultimately successful in subduing Killmonger and would have won the day if not for Killmonger relying on his AoE to break free of their grasp.

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With M'Baku, he led the Jabari into battle against the Border Tribe. While there aren't any explicit showings of him ordering his subordinates like Okoye, based off of implications like how the Jabari were in such a formation that they completely broke through the Border Tribe's defenses and turned the tide of the battle:

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So just how does this come into play you ask? Well Okoye and M'Baku are already great military leaders and strategist as I have shown, and with perks like mind link and full knowledge, their tactical ability will go unchallenged by R'as and Blade. They will be able to coordinate with one another, form strategies to counter their opponents, and execute it seamlessly. And unlike R'as and Blade, Okoye and M'Baku have experience fighting alongside one another. In addition, Blade has never really relied on tactics and while R'as may be the leader of the League of Assassins, they rarely of at all fight as a unit and are more independent if anything.

Mindset:

Okoye and M'Baku have no qualms with killing. In fact, Okoye has casually killed African mercenaries during her first fight in the MCU. And M'Baku has undoubtedly killed people with his club before. I mean in the Wakandan civil war, he was hitting people quite hard with that to the point that they realistically should have died. This is supported by the fact that M'Baku comes from a much more traditionalist African tribe, and they are quite barbaric when it comes to combat. Now, let's talk about why this is relevant. R'as has no problems killing. He is an assassin after all. But Blade? Blade has killed vampires, sure, but Okoye and M'Baku are far from supernatural. They are regular humans, and as a vampire hunter, I don't see Blade resorting to killing them as easily as he can vampires from a character mindset perspective. That's not to say he won't fight at all, but he most certainly won't go all out trying to kill them given the nature of his character.

Fighting Ability

Here is where we get into the cut and dry stuff. So let's get right to it, shall we:

Okoye is highly skilled and surprisingly fast with her spear. I mean she was downright fodderizing an entire group of Klaw's subordinates despite two of them in that very same scene being enough to force Black Panther himself on the defensive. Yet Okoye showed no such trouble quickly and quite effortlessly dispatching entire groups of these mercenaries attacking her near simultaneously. It's also worth noting her speed, switching from opponent to opponent and unleashing swift combinations of attacks.

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And this isn't the first time Okoye has demonstrated the ability to tangle with formidable fodder

Okoye and M'Baku were able to push back Outriders in the Battle of Wakanda. For reference, these same Outriders were overwhelming super soldier tier characters (in groups of 2-3) and even the Hulkbuster (though they were in a group of 5-6). This is an impressive feat in it of itself and shows how capable they are. Hell even fodder Dora MIlaje were dealing with entire groups of Outrider simultaneously.

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Do I see Ra's replicating this? Hell no. The simple fact that super soldier tier characters and above were being overwhelmed by Outriders shows how capable Okoye and M'Baku are in terms of both skill and physicality. He may have the skill, but he does not have the physicals that Okoye and M'Baku possess.

I mean in that video Okoye knocked back an Outrider with a spear attack despite several attacks from Captain America not moving it back an inch. Granted, Steve was in an awkward position and he used a weapon that wasn't as sharp as Okoye's, so Okoye is by no means stronger than Cap, but this feat is still impressive. Also, M'Baku was able to completely break the jaw of an Outrider with two strikes of his wooden club. Remember, Outriders are very durable, so accomplishing this feat is nothing short of impressive.

Needless to say, when comparing how well Okoye and M'baku deal with fodder as compared to Ra's, I'd say that the former scenario is more impressive. Not from a skill standpoint specifically, but because of the seamless combination of raw skill and physicality, the latter of which Ra's is lacking in.

The Fight

Okay, so right off the bat there are several advantages Okoye and M'Baku have. Unlike Ra's and Blade, they are strategist and have experience fighting along side each other. This will give their team the necessary synergy to excel in group combat. The same can't be said for your team. Ra's and Blade are nothing alike and have no experience with military leadership, so it's a little generous to expect them to come up with such an intricate plan, especially without any sort of prep or getting to know each other. And that's assuming Blade will even go for the kill against a group of humans. Given the fact that he is determined to win the fight, he will definitely defend himself, but if he is in character, he will not be slicing and dicing humans.

In addition, I think my opponent is approaching this like it is a 1v1 and a 1v1 fight. But with people like M'Baku and Okoye, the latter of which is very experience with group combat, it will be anything about a 1v1. I mean both Okoye and M'Baku have experience fighting in groups and Okoye especially has been able to perfectly adapt to group combat situations like with Black Widow and her against Proxima Midnight. Needless to say, when thinking of this as a 2v2 instead of 2 1v1s, things become a lot worst for your team. Okoye and M'Baku will be much more coordinated with their attacks as compared to Blade and Ra's. This is especially the case considering they have full knowledge of your skill showings (meaning they know how you fight) and they have a mind link, making coordination that much easier.

Now that I have established how relevant the tactical advantage is here, let's move onto how well Okoye and M'Baku can hold their own from a physical and skill standpoint. Well, even fodder Dora Milaje have dealt with fodder that would stomp Ra's and give Blade a run for his money in the Outriders. And Okoye scales above this and she and M'Baku have feats of their own of dealing with Outriders. Okoye and M'Baku also have a severe reach advantage, making it that much harder for Ra's and Blade to outmaneuver them. So how exactly will Okoye and M'Baku take out Ra's and Blade? Well Okoye's Vibranium spear will definitely take out Blade when she gets a good shot in and M'Baku's attack potency is a lot more than Ra's can handle. Even if he were to switch it up, M'Baku can easily impale Blade with his club like he did with his club and Okoye can give Ra's a run for his money with his spear. On the whole, when it comes to feats of skill and physicality, Okoye and M'Baku are superior to Ra's in that regard and should give Blade himself a run for his money.

Conclusion

  • Ra's and Blade have no synergy, aren't tacticians, and haven't fought together, so saying they will come up with such an intricate, well coordinated plan is reaching
  • Blade will hold back against Okoye and M'Baku since he has never really gone all out against humans, and he definetely won't go for slice and dice tactics
  • Okoye and M'Baku have feats of fodder busting that give them the necessary fighting ability to tangle with people like Blade and Ra's from a skill and physicality perspective
  • Okoye and M'Baku have full knowledge of how they fight, and combined with their mind link, military leadership experience, and team synergy, they should be able to take advantage of this with coordinated attacks

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@defiant_will: Damn, that was fast. I'll try to have my response up fairly soon. Nice post.

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#40  Edited By JSDoctor

Blade & Ra's Al Ghul | Rebuttals & Extensions

No Caption Provided

Introduction

In his opener, DW focussed on less obvious aspects of the battle such as tactics, strategy and synergy. I intend to open this post by responding to the claims he makes about Okoye & M'Baku's proficiency in these regards. Whilst doing so, I'll also present showings for Ra's & Blade that illustrate that they are far more strategically gifted than DW suggests.

Following that, I'll move on to discuss the raw battle. Here I'll counter DW's points about the Casino fight, the Outriders and more, whilst dispelling some of the misconceptions that he has about my team (such as the incorrect idea that Ra's isn't physically impressive).

Finally, I'll present an updated overview of the battle as I see it. This will include my take on DW's rebuttals to my relatively simple strategy, in addition to a summary of exactly what my team's advantages are, taking into account DW's opener. So without any further ado, let's begin with...

Tactics & Synergy

DW spends the first portion of his opener talking about Okoye & M'Baku's showings of battle formations and tactics. He presents a showing for each of them, and then discusses how this would come into play against my team. I'm going to counter this in three ways, before highlighting some showings from my own team that put them on at least the same level.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The first way I want counter his point is by showing that Okoye & M'Baku won't be familiar with each others' formations & strategies. They may both come from Wakanda, but their backgrounds are very different. Okoye was trained by the Dora Milaje, and elite and futuristic military force. M'Baku's combat experience is in stark contrast to this, coming from the far more traditional Jabari tribe. Considering the different nature of these backgrounds, as well as the fact that the Jabari were isolated from the other tribes for a significant portion of Wakanda's history, there's absolutely no reason to think that their techniques and formations would be the same. The Jabari have had little to no interaction with Wakanda and the Dora until very recently (after the events of Black Panther's solo film) so the techniques that they use will differ.

My second counter furthers the idea of their styles & direct battle strategies being different. Consider the first portion of the fight scene that DW presented, against Killmonger.

No Caption Provided

The style of the Dora is very acrobatic. They're constantly leaping around and over each other, fighting with flow and direction. M'Baku's style isn't like this at all. For one thing, he's never demonstrated that level of acrobatics. Additionally, even when he is fighting with as much skill as he can (eg against T'Challa in the ritual fight), he still doesn't match the flow of the Dora. He's not unskilled by any means, but he's far more of a brawler and just generally has a different style from Okoye. The same applies vice versa - Okoye has absolutely no reason to know the different fighting styles and strategies of a generally excluded Wakandan tribe. Given this, even M'Baku he had familiarity with the manoeuvres used by the Dora then its doubtful that he would be able to pull them off.

So, before moving on, what do these first two counters mean? The fact that M'Baku isn't trained in the manoeuvres and style of the Dora (and couldn't pull them off even if he were), illustrate the different styles and backgrounds of DW's two fighters. Given this, it's unlikely that they would be able to pull off any specific, pre-planned formations or strategies against Blade & Ra's. What I haven't dealt with yet, however, is any synergy that the two may have in general.

That brings me onto my third counter - to a specific claim that DW makes:

And unlike R'as and Blade, Okoye and M'Baku have experience fighting alongside one another.

I'd ask him to present a clip of this, because I certainly don't recall them fighting side by side. They've absolutely fought in the same battles - but as members of different groups who haven't interacted. This doesn't give them any synergetic advantage unless they've actually fought directly with (eg Okoye/Widow) or against (eg M'Baku/T'Challa) each other. Even if this has happened (which I don't think that it has), I can't imagine it being more than a very brief moment in Black Panther, as I don't think that these two characters even so much as exchange lines to each other.

What remains after this third counter is not any specific strategies, or synergy from having fought alongside each other before, but simply a general understanding of strategy and tactics. And I'm more than happy to admit that DW's team is impressive in this area - but so is mine.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

First, let's look at Ra's & the League, who in many ways mirror Okoye & the Dora. Consider the gif below.

No Caption Provided

One assassin distracts Oliver, whilst four more drop from above. They then engage him simultaneously, forcing him into a position where he is susceptible to being shot by their arrows. This is a brilliant showing of their overall strategic mindset. Despite not being able to beat him in a direct confrontation, they use particular techniques to ensure that he can be shot and captured. What makes this even more impressive is the ridiculous ease with which Oliver usually deals with arrows - here he deflects three simultaneously and here he catches one that is fired when he has his back turned. And the League can still force him into a position of being shot and kidnapped. It's certainly a better showing of strategy than M'Baku's troops simply riding into battle in formation, and quite comparable to the Dora's fight against Killmonger. Both involved the use of various formations to force a superior opponent into a position where they could be beaten with gear.

So how does this relate to Ra's? As an individual who was brought up by the League, he was once also a foot soldier - that means that he went through the same strategic training so should be capable of executing the same techniques. And that's even before considering that he's had centuries more experience, including time spent leading to organisation.

Next, let's think about Blade. He doesn't have any showings of executing plans with groups of soldiers as he doesn't fight with them (though he did show himself to be capable of working with others throughout the trilogy, particularly in the final film), but it simply wouldn't be true to suggest that he doesn't plan ahead and think strategically. These gifs (1,2) show him carrying out a plan to draw out a large group of vampires with attractive pheremones, and then take them out with a solar grenade. It illustrates that he is more than just a fighter - he's also a planner who, particularly when paired with a partner like Ra's, will be more than capable of holding his own in a battle of wits.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's summarise this section. Okoye & M'Baku may both be from Wakanda, but their backgrounds and styles are both different to the point where they won't be familiar with the same techniques. This means that using specific, pre-prepared plans against my team is out of the question. Additionally, they haven't fought directly alongside each other so won't have any particular combat synergy.

What they do have, however, is an overall strategic way of thinking. But this isn't unique to DW's team. Blade and in particular Ra's share this expertise. In fact, if I were to give the advantage in this category to either team then I would give it to mine. I've shown that Okoye & M'Baku have very little in common in their fighting styles. Blade and Ra's, on the other hand, both use swords as their primary weapon and have reasonably similar styles. It means that they are more likely to be able to execute group manoeuvres.

Though even if none of that were the case and Okoye & M'Baku did have a significant advantage here (which they don't) then I'd still question its relevance. The gap between DW'd team and mine in a straight-up fight is quite significant to the point that I don't see a slight strategic advantage (if it did exist, which it doesn't) being able to bridge the gap. Speaking of that, I'm now going to look at DW's points regarding a direct confrontation.

Direct Confrontation

In this section, I'm going to rebut some of the more direct points that DW makes about the battle. This will include my responses to Okoye's casino fight and both Wakandans' feats against the Outriders. From there, I'll move on to dispel the frankly bizarre notion that Ra's has unimpressive physicals and finally I'll show exactly what the relevance of all of this is.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The first feat that DW presents is the casino fight for Okoye. She manages to take on a good number of them up to 2-3 at a time. There are two things I want to note here before moving on.

First, Okoye has a significant reach advantage which she does use at multiple points throughout the fight. She regularly stays at a distance where she can jab her opponents without risk of them touching her, and at one point even performs a sweep around her that keeps three of them at bay. When we compare this with the feats I presented for my characters in my opener, we can see that they didn't have this same advantage. Specifically, Blade took out 13 armed and armoured guards in 20 seconds with the same baton that they all had. Ra's took out 8 LoA in 12 seconds with a sword, whilst they were also armed with swords. He effortlessly destroyed Nyssa, who can consistently beat 6 LoA without being touched - all of whom had swords. In this particular battle, everyone is armed with weapons giving them fairly similar range so that advantage shouldn't really be considered.

Second, I want to counter DW's establishment of the threat level of the mercs that Okoye faced. He suggests that two were pressuring T'Challa - I'm assuming that he's referring to the instance at about 0:38 in the video. For reference:

No Caption Provided

I don't think that this is nearly as impressive for the mercs as DW suggests. For one thing, he only had to parry their blows for about three seconds before beating them effortlessly. For another, they got the drop on him whilst he was crouching so of course he had to go on the defensive for a little while. Ultimately they really didn't give him any trouble - the fact that he had to parry their blows moreso than Okoye has to do so with the fact that he started in a disadvantageous position and didn't have her reach advantage.

Overall, this feat is certainly good - taking on multiple mercs of reasonable skill (even if judging only by choreography) simultaneously. But even if the reach advantage weren't a factor (and I've given specific examples showing where it helped her) then it still isn't as good as Blade's feat of beating 13 trained, armed and armoured guards in 20 seconds. It certainly isn't as good as Nyssa's feat of taking on 6 LoA completely simultaneously, whilst surrounded and beating them without being touched - which she did twice. And Ra's still stomped her in less than 5 seconds without being touched, using only a makeshift pipe as a weapon.

This feat doesn't put Okoye close to Ra's' level. And whilst it may allow her to contend briefly with Blade in skill (though he still has a definite advantage), his strength means that she still will struggle greatly to parry his hits.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The next feat that DW presents is the Battle of Wakanda, where Okoye & M'Baku take on Outriders. To analyse this, I'll use a showing from a regular Dora. It's even more impressive than what we saw Okoye do on-screen, but she is of course superior to them so should be able to replicate it without any issues.

No Caption Provided

A Dora one-shots a few Outriders in the background of this shot with her spear. The good part of this feat is that she is able to respond to attacks from five different directions in about five seconds - though that still doesn't compare to what I've already shown from Blade & Ra's, as they (and fighters who they can stomp) effortlessly outmanoeuvre more people with more skill attacking from more directions.

But let's get to the part that DW sees as the most impressive - actually taking down Outriders. Ironically, this is the part of the feat that I find less impressive. She does so by taking them down with her spear before they can get to close. Bear in mind here that a reach advantage and weapon capable of one-shotting is a really good, but also really specific counter to unskilled superhumans. The Vibranium allows their durability to be bypassed completely, and the reach advantage means that Outriders won't be dodging the weapons as they don't have any particular skill or intelligence. M'Baku's showings against them were very similar - one-shotting them with a reach advantage.

So why isn't this relevant against Blade & Ra's? Quite simply, they are skilled. They won't just be running into the spear like the Outriders did, so the gear isn't as good at countering them as it is at countering unskilled superhumans. Blade's Vibranium weapon means that he can parry hits (and his strength means that Okoye will struggle to parry his). I've also shown why he is more skilled than her earlier in this section. The fact that people like Nyssa & mid-S3 Oliver are also more skilled than Okoye by feats (as I showed in my opener), and Ra's stomps them without being touched, means that he won't actually have to deal with the spear. If they can't touch him then neither can Okoye. This makes the weapon not particularly relevant.

Ultimately, the showings against the Outriders are due to the Wakandans' gear being a very specific counter to opponents of that nature. It's nowhere near as relevant to this battle.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now I want to respond to an argument that DW makes a few times throughout his post - the idea that Ra's doesn't have impressive strength/durability. I found this argument quite odd as Ra's is consistently portrayed as someone with incredible strength and inhuman durability.

In my first post, I showed him cleanly slicing a sword in half with a single blow - this alone is a great strength feat, but it's not even his best.

No Caption Provided

Here he nonchalantly slices through thick metal chains. Him doing so at all is pretty incredible, but the fact that he does so with such a casual swing (he barely raises the sword behind his head and doesn't even need to follow through with the blow) makes it even more impressive.

What is also a great showing of strength is presented below - Ra's effortlessly catches a sword swing from Oliver Queen that had a lot of momentum behind it.

No Caption Provided

What makes this impressive is Oliver's incredible strength. Some of his showings include cleanly kicking a man's head completely through a thick, tiled wall and kicking open a padlocked door (both are presented below).

It's safe to say that Oliver's strength is among the best of all CBM/CBTV peak humans, so catching a powerful sword swing from him is a pretty great feat.

Ra's doesn't have much in the way of durability feats simply because he was very rarely tagged on Arrow. This means that the above feat is probably also his best durability feat - but it is certainly just as impressive in that regard as it is in strength. He no-sells the catch, not even flinching as he performs the feat. It's a brilliant showing of him being able to take damage and fight through as if nothing as happened, and not something that I see Okoye or M'Baku replicating at all.

I think this dispells the bizarre idea that Ra's is physically unimpressive - on the contrary, he's one of the most physically gifted individuals in the Arrowverse. But again, I'd question the relevance of this section. His sword will allow him to deal damage to DW's team, something that he hasn't disputed yet and I highly doubt that he will. Meanwhile, his showings against opponents like Nyssa and mid-S3 Oliver, both of whom are substantially more skilled than DW's team, solidify the fact that he is very unlikely to take any damage here.

How the Battle Unfolds

the above sections show why my team wins up close - but I'd take this opportunity to remind voters that the battle won't play out that way. It's far more likely to play out at range, as I laid out in my opener. To refresh readers, the strategy consisted of Ra's identifying the positions of the Wakandans and Blade taking them out. This is what is likely to happen, and DW doesn't spend much time countering it. He does present two brief responses, however, which I'm going to give my take on now.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

DW's First Response:

Blade has killed vampires, sure, but Okoye and M'Baku are far from supernatural. They are regular humans, and as a vampire hunter, I don't see Blade resorting to killing them as easily as he can vampires from a character mindset perspective. That's not to say he won't fight at all, but he most certainly won't go all out trying to kill them given the nature of his character.

He suggests that Blade will be unwilling to go for the kill against humans as we didn't really see him fight human villains in his films. I have two counters to this argument.

First, there's the fact that he's not exactly a bastion of morality. He has absolutely no qualms killing vampires, and they're just as conscious and self-aware as humans are. Given this, it's clear that he has no problems killing individuals with human awareness so I see absolutely no reason why he would have such a different moral code for humans - particularly given that I don't remember anything throughout the three films suggesting it. It would be akin to me suggesting that Okoye & M'Baku won't kill Blade because they've never killed a vampire before - which seems ridiculous, because it is. But humans and vampires have comparable intelligence - they aren't like Outriders or Chitauri, for instance, which are more animalistic.

Second, there's the fact that Blade has killed his own mother. And that wasn't in self-defence - he had already beaten her, but then actively chose to stab her with a broken bone, killing her. And whilst his mother wasn't technically fully human at that point, she was human originally but then got vampire-esque characteristics when she was bitten by one whilst pregnant with Blade. There's also the fact that, you know, she's his mother. So I don't think it's a stretch to say that someone capable of unnecessarily killing his own mother (a former human) would also be able to kill humans whom he's never met and are actively trying to kill him.

So for one thing, the burden of proof is on DW to show why he wouldn't kill, and not on me to show why he would, based on what we already know about his morality with regard to killing people with human intelligence/consciousness. But even if the burden of proof was on me, then I've shown why he'd be willing to go for the fatal blow. Killing his mother, a former human, without needing to suggests that he wouldn't have any problems killing current humans who are actively trying to kill him.

Blade's mindset is just as fixed as Okoye's, Ra's' and M'Baku's.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

DW's Second Response:

It's a little generous to expect them to come up with such an intricate plan, especially without any sort of prep or getting to know each other.

He suggests that Blade and Ra's are unlikely to 'come up with such an intricate plan'. I'm going to dissect what it actually involves, showing why it's perfectly reasonable for them to execute it. The plan has three steps and is very simple:

  1. Ra's uses his stealth capabilities to locate Okoye & M'Baku.
  2. Ra's relays this information to Blade.
  3. Blade takes out M'Baku and Okoye with throwing weapons.

I doubt that DW will suggest part 3 is out of character - Blade starts the vast majority of his fights by using throwing weapons. Similarly, part 1 is perfectly in character and that shouldn't be doubted. It's simply true that Ra's will have to find Okoye & M'Baku for the fight would begin - and that would be true whether he had an ally or not. I already showed in my first post why his combination of stealth & speed means that he would be able to achieve this if he wanted to, and it's pretty clear that he is going to have to.

So the only part of the plan that DW could possibly doubt is step 2 - the idea that Ra's will transfer this information to Blade. I'm going to refer here to Legends of Tomorrow 1x09, where Ra's made the decision to work with the Legends to take down Chronos. Bear in mind that the Legends were his prisoners and trying to take his favourite student from him, whereas Blade is his ally. So if he's willing to work with prisoners and enemies when necessary then there's absolutely no reason why he wouldn't give Blade this important information over their mind link. From there, the only question is whether Blade will act on that information and it would be incredibly stupid for him to not use important information that literally pops into his head. As I showed in my section on strategy & tactics, Blade is actually pretty smart. But all he really needs to act on this information is to not be a thundering dumbass, and he certainly isn't.

So it's already in character for Blade to open with ranged projectiles, and Ra's has no choice but to find his opponents. Ra's will be willing to transfer information to Blade (his ally) based on his willingness to work with prisoners & enemies, and Blade is nowhere near stupid enough to ignore that information.

So this plan is perfectly feasible, and something that my team will have no qualms carrying out.

Conclusion

I've proven why the battle almost certainly unfolds at range - just as I had initially suggested. But what is really critical is that I've also provided a strategy for what happens even if the battle goes to close quarters, meaning that I'm covered on both fronts. The same is not true of DW, who is really depending on the unlikely circumstance of the battle going to close-quarters as he hasn't countered my points about the battle unfolding at range.

Even in close-quarters, my team still has the advantage. They're at least as tactically minded as Okoye & M'Baku, who won't have the incredible synergy that DW suggests due to a variety of points that I've laid out. And in a direct confrontation either member of my team still beats either member of DW's team, just as I suggested in my opener. I've responded to every showing presented by DW in his opener, illustrating why they don't really change anything. Blade's combination of an adamantium sword, insane strength and great skill allows him to beat either opponent; all that Ra's needs is his insurmountable skill advantage (though he has the physicals to contend if that were necessary, which it isn't).

I've proven why my team wins in the more likely scenario of a ranged battle, something that DW has barely engaged with. I've also shown why they would win even up close, countering absolutely all of DW's points. Whichever way the battle goes, they will emerge victorious.

We're Halfway There...
We're Halfway There...

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geekryan

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@defiant_will: another bump. it's already been 13 days, but I'll give you until Thursday night to post

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@geekryan: Great, looking forward to it. Bit of a shame this one didn't get finished though.

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@jsdoctor said:

@geekryan: Great, looking forward to it. Bit of a shame this one didn't get finished though.

I agree, it is a shame