Street Level Live Action Tournament 2019 - Round 1 - ComicGirl21 vs. Sazzmi

• FOX characters are composite
• Feats from tie-in comics are allowed
• Standard Gear
• Victory by KO, death, or incap only.
• Everyone is in character but determined to win
• Characters keep the knowledge they already have
• Character personalities/history are a factor (i.e. Green Arrow and Prometheus will NOT get along if they are on the same team)
• All bow/arrow characters come with a quiver of 20 standard arrows, 2 grappling hook arrows, 1 bola arrow, and 1 flashbang arrow
• All guns are fully loaded but with no extra ammo or clips
• Agents of SHIELD characters have their ICERS replaced with standard handguns (if it is standard for them)
• No time manipulation of any kind will be allowed (i.e. from Eva Sharpe and Rip Hunter)
• With prep, each individual character still needs to lose a majority to MCU Captain America, MCU Black Sky, CW Mirakuru Deathstroke, Titans Deathstroke, and FOX Beast in a 1v1 fight.
• Prep takes place in a combined universe
• If you choose a gear perk for a character that has never used the gear, they will not automatically have mastery over the gear
• No outside help is allowed into the battlefield (i.e. you can't bring in fodder or other characters from prep)
• You must have at least 500 posts or have completed a CaV/Tournament in order to participate
• 3 posts each with a 14 day limit per post. You will be bumped after 7 days. Extensions may be allowed if you tell me and your opponent before the 14 day limit is over.
• Link to the tournament sign-up thread

@ashrym@comicgirl21@anthp2000@boc@kolkent@subline@sazzmi@death4bunnies@chronicplane@allstarsuperman@juiceboks

Is there any need for this? Probably not. There is not a single user here who doesn't know these two!

Hawkeye, one of the founding members of the MCU's Avengers, and a top shield agent/assassin known for his unrivaled marksmanship skill.

... and Batman, the orphan billionaire genius, a founding member of the Justice league, who dedicated his entire life to fighting crime.

Like I said, these two characters have been talked about to death countless times - so I'm going to focus on their core feats to spare everybody's time. If there will be any need to further supplement these two with more feats along the way of this thread - I'll rush to do it without hesitation. Needless to say, these two have plenty of great feats all around. They've been with us for years, and both have been starring in several movies at this point, with plenty of screen time.

Now let's go though their vital stats, gear and tactic these two can use to bring down Ajax, the nemesis of our boy Deadpool.

When it comes to strength and durability, I've no doubt that both of my characters outclass Ajax by a decent margin. Both Bruce and Hawkeye are peak humans / non-enhanced low tier superhumans who are capable of performing amazing feats of strength, even against proper metahumans, and take a heavy beating without slowing down.

Here's a brief showing of Bruce's striking strength and other combat related feats of strength.

Bruce is shown to be close, if not superior in strength to individual parademons. He can send them flying with his punches and kicks, and is shown to be able to compete with them numerous times.

This is very impressive considering how strong parademons are. We've seen them tearing apart reinforced metal coating of the batmobile and it's weapons to shreds with their bear hands. They've been also able to overpower a powerhouse such as Steppenwolf by dogpiling on him.

He can bust through walls made of wood and cement.

And even punch through a thick brick wall too.

Hawkeye, similarly, is shown to be able to compete in strength against superhuman alien opponents, such as chitauri and ultron bots. He can match and overpower them in CQC by using his strength. His strikes can even send them flying.

Again, worth noting that these guys have plenty of superhuman feats of strength of their own. Ultron bots can literally swim through concrete, and chitauri were smashing cars just by jumping on them. He's matched even superior powerhouses before though. We've seen Hawkeye going toe to toe against Black Panther in CQC, despite Tchalla's massive strength.

Same applies to their durability.

Mostly because my characters are forced to fight alongside powerful superhumans such as Hulk and Superman, they scale to characters superior to anything we've seen in the Deadpool movie. Bruce has even survived strikes from Superman.

Like here, when he sends him flying with a backhand hard to enough to launch him a solid distance in the air and make a giant dent in a side of the car.

He also scales to other mentioned superhumans, like the parademons. Here's a parademon throwing Bruce a dozen meters in the air, crushing into a wall and breaking a steel barrier along the way - with no effects. Bruce gets up like nothing happened.

Hawkeye has been also attacked by other superhumans he regularly fights - like the chitauri - with no effects. He even tanked a blow from Quicksilver, which is probably a similar feat to Bruce's against Superman. After all, just see for yourself what Quicksilver can do while running:

Summary:

By feats and scaling, my characters are simply all around superior in this section. Though Ajax is pretty impressive, he can't really hope to compete against characters who regularly scale to their vastly superhuman comrades and fight entire armies of metahumans alongside them. Both Bruce and Hawkeye have very impressive feats when it comes to strength and durability, one-shotting powerful aliens, punching through brick walls, going toe to toe against supersoliders etc - easily putting them on the very high end of the street level spectrum, and by a rather decent margin above Ajax.

When it comes to reflexes, the debate will likely be a bit closer this time. I realize that reflexes is mostly what Ajax's mutant factor enhanced, based on this statement. We've also seen him seemingly dodging, or aim-dodging bullets from Deadpool one time, which is a very nice feat for him, I agree.

Still, I believe my characters do not fall far behind. In fact, I believe I can prove they are even faster than Ajax when it comes to their reflexes, although barely- They also hold other advanages when it comes to speed though - for example, their agility and combat speed scale much better, and I'll prove it here. Let's roll.

First, Hawkeye. His reflexes seem to be on par with Ajax, possibly even superior. We see him dodging gunfire from handguns too, on several occasions, like here, when he reacts to a bullet that is already in the air:

But we also see him dodging fire from weapons far superior to mere hand guns. Like here:

Some of these seem to be even more impressive feats if you ask me. For example, when reacting to Chitauri shots, Hawkeye did not see that he is being shot at until the last second - you can clearly see he was preoccupied by shooting another chitauri just before he ducked. This seems to be a better feat, since Ajax when dodging bullets from Deadpool clearly SAW that Deadpool is going to shoot. He was expecting the shot and saw it coming. A meaningful difference.

On top of that Barton is extraordinarily acrobatic, which I believe gives him an ever bigger edge over Ajax, who may have enhanced reactions, but is lacking in acrobatic skill big time.

Here's Barton doing a flawless side flip into headshot on an ultron bot:

He is too fast to be tagged with AI locked-on repulsors

Doding an attack from War Machine and balancing his landing perfectly

I've also shown Hawkeye keeping up with Tchalla, who's reactions are even more impressive than anyone here. Based on these alone I think we can safely assume Hawkeye is suprior not just in reflexes but in overall combat speed & agility here.

Same applies to Bruce. Here are some of his best reflexes&agility showings...

Batman can also dodge gunfire from a handgun, no problems.

And, like Hawkeye, he can even dodge superior weapons too. Like a shotgun here:

Or even an alien laser gun, here:

He can even react to Doomsday's bullrush and HV, although barely:

And when it comes to combat speed and agility, he is even more impressive than Hawkeye. Here he is grappling Flash immediately when he comes out of the speed force, mid-jump:

And here's some more of his stunning agility:

Summary:

Like I said, I don't believe the gap is as wide here as it is when it comes to strength and durability. Still, the overall gap in mobility should be showing here. Ajax has some impressive reflexes, but not quite on the level of Batmand and Hawkeye. He also can't really hope to compete with them when it comes to combat speed and agility feats.

Now here is when the gap becomes so big, it's almost unnecessary to talk about it. While Ajax can keep up with Deadpool thanks to his enhanced physicals, he doesn't really have any formal training or background, and the skill we can assume based on his feats alone are decent, but pale in comparison to two grandmasters I have in my own team. Let's go through a brief reminder here, and see just how good are my boys.

Here's some of Hawkeye's skill in marksmanship. He can fire an arrow in a 0.63 seconds with perfect aim.

He can make a perfect double headshot with two arrow shot, with barely any aiming at all.

He can tag a target moving at high speeds without even looking.

His marksman ship is not limited to his archery at all too. We're shown that his arsenal includes a variety of weapons such as hand guns, machine guns and sniper rifles. Bow is simply his favorite.

He also proved it by using firearms flawlessly, just like his bow on many occasions. Here he is, sniping down Fury across the big hall without taking even a second to aim.

And here's Hawkeye using a handgun effectively against Quicksilver, collapsing ground beneath him. And he has high end bullet level reaction speed himself, and combat speed far superior to any Avenger.

Barton is also an expert H2H combatant, with training background from shield, and massive experience spending years in Avengers ranks. He carries around a handful of CQC weapons including a police baton, a katana, and can turn his bow into a combat staff. He is proficient enough with these to keep up with Tchalla, who has super soldier stats, massive CQC combat skill and experience, and vibranium claws for weapons.

So just stating that Ajax can beat Barton in CQC because he has adamantium weapons is not really gonna do the trick. Barton proved he is skilled enough to keep with opponents just as deadly as Ajax when it comes to weaponry, but with far superior skill and physicals.

Batman is no less impressive. He is a minor step back from Hawkeye in marksmanship, but a big step forward when it comes to his CQC skill.

He is an expert martial artist and CQC combatant. He is able to fight many armed opponents simultaneously and take them all down with his bare hands, which he proved extensively in the warehouse scene, going through trained mercenaries like a hot knife through butter, fighting many of them at the same time without breaking a sweat.

He beats Deadshot in CQC, dodging his shot in the process, making him the only target Deadshot ever missed.

Can fight superhumans such as parademons in CQC as well, trading punches, landing attacks, disarming them with ease:

When it comes to marksmanship, by default Batman uses batarangs and explosives at mid to close range. He's been shown throwing these with perfect accuracy many times. He can throw them with enough force and precision to tag a thug's gun before it fires, cut through it and hit the mercenary behind it with enough power to send him to the ground.

Besides their skill in direct combat and marksmanship, both Bruce and Clint are experts in using stealth, misdirection, silent assassinations, and trapping their opponents. They also have highly trained senses, being able to track and trace opponents from great distances (Hawkeye's specialty) and in complete darkness (Batman's specialty) They are basically two stealthy ninjas. Perfect for our battle conditions, which allow them to start out of enemy's sight in a dark warehouse, and with some prep to set up traps and discuss strategy. Here's some of their feats using stealth and traps:

Batman gets out of Superman's vision and gets behind him instantly going around his enhanced vision, hearing and other senses, even though he is wearing a heavy armor. I think this proves that even when amped with Daredevil's senses, Batman can still successfully use stealth against Ajax here. Superman's senses are clearly even superior to DD's.

Batman traps trained mercenaries in a warehouse, with little to no prep - tricking them into believing he is coming through the door, and preparing a trap to pull them down and than burst up from below.

Hawkeye is an assassin, trained to take down his targets using stealth as well. Here he is outdoing Wanda, who tries to sneak up on him, which she was able to do with Tony, Thor, and even Captain America.

And here's Clint prepping a quick trap that is briefly able to contain Vision in just a handful of seconds, proving his skill to trap the opponents using prep.

Summary:

In this section it's no longer a discussion, but pretty much a stomp in my teams favor. Both of my characters are CQC fighting experts far above Ajax's pay grade, which is an easy counter to Ajax's deadly gear. Their marksmanship skill, especially Hawkeye's gives them a massive advantage at range too, proving this fight will likely end even before it ever gets into CQC. Additionally, my characters can use prep and stealth to their advantage in this scenario, and since Ajax has neither stealth of his own, nor prep time of his own, they can abuse it in this match up particularly well.

Another solid edge my characters are gonna bring to the table of our discussion is the overall edge in gear. While Ajax may hold some edge in gear quality with his adamantium axes perk, the versatility and sheer power of the gadgets my characters bring to the table is going to more than make up for it.

Here's what Hawkeye has up his sleeve:

1. Recurve bow-staff. Hawkeye's bow can be used with great accuracy in all conditions and even at great distances, and can pierce through thick metal armor. It can also detonate his trick arrows, and be used as a combat staff.

2. Conventional and trick arrows (limited by the OP) including:

- 20 standard arrows (again, strong enough to pierce an ultron bot, so lethal even through kevlar)

- 2 grappling hook arrows (Hawkeye is very proficient in using to get out of sticky situations)

- 1 bola arrow (can come in handy to stun/tangle Ajax if he tries to engage)

- 1 flashbang arrow (good for a distraction, and especially useful in a teamwork situation - for example, used just before Batman engages in CQC to mess up with Ajax amped senses.)

3. Hawkeye's custom made katana, that we've seen cutting an outsider in half. Just as deadly to Ajax as Ajax's axes are deadly to Hawkeye in CQC. It should also hold up to Ajaxe's attacks, as long as he block the handle of the axes, as avoids getting in a blade clash, which he should be able to do with his skill.

4. H&C P30 Gun, a backup for his perk-earned rifle.

5. Combat knife, he wields with great efficiency, a backup weapon for the sword and staff, if either breaks due to axe's cutting power.

6. Hawkeye's kevlar suit-armor.

7. A sniper rifle with scope. A weapon I chose for Hawkeye for a perk. Like I mentioned, Hawkeye can perfectly apply his marksmanship skill to this rifle, and he has experience in using it. Knowing there's gonna be a handful of bullet timers in here, I picked this gun for him to stay effective against characters with bullet level reflexes. This applies in this match up perfectly.

If Ajax will be able to dodge some of Hawkeye's arrows, he can resort to a sniper rifle, which has bullets far faster and more powerful than anything Ajax has ever dodged so far.

Though I'll argue Hawkeye is skilled enough to tag bullet timers with his arrows anyway, so it's not like his bow is useless here.

Now let's move to Batman's gear

1. Bulletproof high-tech armor, cape and gauntlets. Here's some of the feats of the armor tanking explosions and direct gunfire, which sets up it's durability even against Ajax's axes very high.

Gauntlets and the blades sticking out appear completely immune to cutting and piercing.

Armor and gauntlets are bullet proof.

Headpiece is bulletproof even at close range.

With gauntlets Bruce can even shield himself from Apocalyptian laser guns.

Cape can shield himself and others from major explosions.

With these feats I believe Batman's armor will hold up in this matchup. Can Ajax cut through? Probably. In one blow though? Hardly. Parts of Batman's armor, like his gauntlets that can resist crazy amounts of cutting/piercing and even laser shots can probably go toe to toe against the axes at least for a while, providing good anwser to Ajax's gear.

2. Utility belt armed with a handful of gadgets, including:

- Grappling guns, that can be also used as a weapon.

- Sticking explosive charges, powerful enough to one shot a parademon.

- Anti-gun magnets, remotely controlled to disarm opponents (another excellent way to counter Ajax's axes)

- Batarangs

- Smokescreen grenades

Much of their gear can be used in combination with warehouse surroundings during prep. They can use grappling lines and explosives to make traps, Batman can amp some of Hawkeye's standard arrows with his explosives to make them more powerful and AoE (attaching the sticking explosive to the tip of some of his arrows) and much more.

Summary:

The sheer quantity of powerful weapons and useful gadgets makes this section yet another stomp in my team's favor. Batman and Hawkeye are deadly both at range and in CQC. They have great mobility with their grappling devices, so they can enter combat and get out of though spots immediately. Their prep time will allow them to use stealth, traps and rehearse their tactics beforehand, giving them a massive battlefield advantage. Overall, none of this Ajax can actually counter. His adamantium axes alone will not be a big enough advantage to ignore all of this.

I think y'all know where this is going. The warehouse is a perfect scenario for my team. It's basically a default fighting ground both for Batman and for Hawkeye. My team of stealth ninja assassins is used to fighting in and from the dark, they can freely move around the terrain with their grappling devices and great agility. I also already adressed the fact that they can use their gear during prep to set up traps, amp their weapons and discuss strategy.

Let's also get into their mindset. Hawkeye and Batman are both heroes with very similar moral codes. Both don't mind killing their opponents as well. They will get together very well, and with my mind-link perk, their teamwork will be perfect.

Their gear is also very complementary. Batman being more deadly at mid to close range, and Hawkeye being most effective at distance, they form a natural front and back line, and are able to take on almost any opponent in an efficient, organised manner.

This is how I believe this fight will go down:

1. Hawkeye and Batman spawn first in the warehouse. With mind-link they need no small talks with eachother. They begin prepping for battle immediately.

2. Both will set up traps using wires from grapples, explosives and any convenient warehouse junk they can find laying around. I believe Hawkeye can use this time most effectively. He can use the prep time to combine some of Batman's explosives or smokescreen gadgets with his standard arrows, to retrieve some of his lost versatility when it comes to trick arrows. Then, he can fortify his position on a high ground area of the warehouse, like here:

He can in any of these posts with a grapple, Batman can help him load a couple crates in there, and any of these spots will allow him to camp there and snipe down with his gun/arrows/sniper rifle almost indefinitely. At the same time, Batman will be working on the ground level, making sure Ajax triggers the traps and luring him out if he'd decide to just stay out of Hawkeye's vision permanently.

3. If their assassination skill and traps fail, if Ajax will somehow avoid being sniped by Hawkeye from large distance or taken down by Batman from mid range with batarangs and explosives... If Ajax is able to force Batman into a CQC fight, out of Hawkeye's reach, Barton can quickly get down to help Batman using a grapple, and turn their arguably close CQC fight into a one sided 2 vs 1 stomp. Can Ajax fight Batman in CQC? Let's say... maybe. Can he fighting him when he's a front line, and Hawkeye is shooting him from a backline at the same time? With these two being perfectly in syn with the mind link?

Again, with their comparable traits, background and similar stealthy approach to combat Hawkeye and Batman will be perfectly tuned with eachother and I'm pretty sure taking down Ajax will be an easy task for the duo in any scenario here. Why my team wins?

So Ajax isn't exactly swimming with feats

That's an understatement lol. Ajax is a background character in a total of one movie. And the ones he does have are not exactly rainbows and flowerbeds either. Just wait and see.

l simply go ahead and link his three major fights/encounters against the titular mercenary of the film, Deadpool.

Nah, there ain't 3 encounters. You missed some in between. Like this one:

Deadpool vs Ajax. Encounter 2.5

This one is particularly interesting. Let me just break it up real quick:

0:06: Fast enough to dodge bullets on a motorcycle? Without aim-doding? Well not really... here, we clearly see, that apparently, he couldn't get out of the way of a katana throw in time and/or block it. Thrown projectiles like these move on absurdly slow speeds, comparing to bullets. It should be a fodder move, going through the ai in slow-mo to Ajax, but it not only lands, but takes him down.

0:14: Pain tolerance and high durability? Well maybe to some degree, but not nearly as high as you'd like to picture in your post. Here he get's KO'd by a minor motorcycle crash... He didn't even make a tiny dent in the car that stopped him momentum, so he wasn't going that fast. And he can't even move, or get back up. HE doesn't even try to fight back until 0:32.

0:30-0:45 Gets demolished by Deadpool in H2H. Can't fight back, and in no way is shrugging the damage. Just a couple of kicks keeps him permanently incapacitated. He gives Deadpool no resistance whatsoever. That pain tolerance of Ajax is hardly a factor, if he can't even shrug some superficial blunt damage from kicks and punches delivered by a street level with average strength stat like Deadpool.

And you also forgot this one:

Deadpool vs Ajax. Encounter 3.5

1:40-1:50 Ajax and Deadpool both fall off the edge and roll through some platform junk. Admittedly, Ajax have also suffered some off-screen damage when he was hit by a container and fell off a platform beforehand... But he did have enough steam that he decided to keep fighting and was able to jump on Deadpool right? So he has enough speed, strength and HP enough to keep fighting. But look how this fall fatigued him. When him and Deadpool stop falling, Wade springs back on his feet, while Ajax can barely move. This is another time when minor blunt force damage caused him severe trauma and made him an ineffective fighter.

1:50-2:10 Because of this, again, Deadpool effortlessly pummels him with his bare hands with little to no resistance and breaks his arms in the process. After getting punched for a while, Ajax can no longer move. This is the same situation as the previous scene. He gets pummeled with fists and can no longer move. Is his durability and pain tolerance that high? I mean let's be honest. It's not enough to stop someone like Batman to beat the crap out of him in CQC.

What do we learn from these scenes?

1. Ajax's reaction speed and/or awareness is not as impressive as it seems.
2. Ajax's durability and pain tolerance have their limits, and it's not a bar set particularly high. It will not be a major factor in this fight.
3. Ajax's is not a particularly skilled H2H combatant. Deadpool heavily outclasses him.

Now, camera one - for the record - I do not mean to lowball - Ajax does have good feats as well, and you mentioned some of them. Bending metal bars with bare hands, keeping up with Deadpool, aim-dodging bullets, all cool bro, I'm not taking that away from him. I'm also not trying to say Batman can one shot him with a punch or anything. But you are trying to portray Ajax as a flawless, highly supernatural beast throughout your post, while in fact, his overall showings are clearly mixed, and dare I say - very human.

1. Ajax is easily one of the most physically imposing people in this tourney.

Hardly. But let's see what you've got to prove that point.

2. With Daredevil's senses, flash-bangs, and low a low visibility setting Ajax will more than likely have superior control over the battlefield

I'll be addressing that in detail below.

3. Adamantium weaponry will prove far more troublesome than you may initially think.

I think I've already given Adamantium too much credit. But I'll explain why they are not harming my team even further in this post.

Now let's split the debate into categories, going further. I feel like this is going to help our readers.

In the first and third fight we can clearly see that he's a physical equal to Deadpool in terms of raw strength speed and skill and arguably stronger due to his dominance in their first match. Multiple times in those two fights we see the man ragdolling Wade Wilson several feet back. One time while in a grapple, with poor leverage, and only his bite for means of grip. In this moment, by twisting his body in this awkward position he sent the superhuman mercenary flying several feet back at high speeds through crates. And in another instance we see him snap Deadpool's swords with little resistance by using his axes. These swords were able to not only cut through humans like butter but also pierce thick concrete with ease in the same thrust without losing it's razor edge. In the first fight however, he completely dominated the entire fight against Wade, impaling him with a metal rod and bending it with his bare hands.

Sending people flying... bending a metal rod (slowly, and clearly with some effort, but still) and breaking weapons... well Ajax's strength isn't half bad. He's probably a good match for Hawkeye. I've also shown Hawkeye piercing Ultron bot's metal head, sending a superhuman chitauri soldier flying with a kick, and match them in CQC directly. Let's add some on top of that, like here - we also see Hawkeye effortlessly piercing Hydra's mech suit with a casual arrow stab:

So I'd say Hawkeye and Ajax are probably equal. They can both go toe to toe against street level superhumans in CQC, break durable metal constructs and even send others flying with a strike. Alright, I concede on Ajax and Barton being close equals in strength. Close enough.

Batman is even stronger though, and it's likely him Ajax will have to face in CQC, if it will get to CQC at all. I've shown Bruce not just sending street level superhumans like parademons flying with a strike, but also multiple instances of him busting through a wall, literally punching through stone bricks... which is a tier above anything both Hawkeye and Ajax can do. Bruce is shown to be a physical powerhouse on so many occasions you can hardly doubt that.

With minor help from an random citizen he lift a thick construction I beam.

Can throw an adult man across the roof with a casual grapple pull.

His monday routine includes working out on eight 45 pound plates

He doesn't just send people flying with his kicks - he can actually kick people so hard he uses them as projectiles to hit other people. Lol.

Batman's strength showings are direct, consistent and put him on a super soldier level of strength, at least 9-B and far above Ajax's ball park.

However, his true danger lies with his reactionary speed and pain tolerance. As shown in the links he can take non-lethal damage like a champ. Hardly even reacting when being pummeled and shredded by Wade. Without knowledge many combatants seeing this for the first time will be surprising no doubt. His pain tolerance is so potent that he can get right back up from getting slammed by a massive freight container and a long fall right after battling Deadpool.

Well... the container scene you're talking about... after it hit him it made Ajax disappear for several scenes. He comes back many minutes later, so that wasn't getting right back up, it was a KO. (Once again lol)

Anyway, I think my analysis of the scenes you missed clearly proves this statement to be incorrect. Ajax has some degree of pain tolerance and durability.... But he can not shrug even blunt force trauma from a minor motorcycle crash, a slide through platform junk, or getting pummeled a little by Deadpool. In all cases he ends up incapacitated for extended period of time, unable to properly fight back. Even the feat with container you brought for a positive feat ends up exactly the same. And anything more than that, like taking an arrow, bullet or a batarang to a vital area, will obviously kill him instantly. Ajax's durability/pain tolerance is not a factor here at all.

Also I've shown my team to be far ahead of Ajax in durability. Bruce got up from a backhand from bloodlusted Superman, and Hawkeye was completely no selling a strike from Quicksilver, getting literally right back up with no scene cut. In fact, Hawkeye has feats even better than this, like here, when he tanks a strike from a Superman from his own universe - Vision. Strike is no gentle tap, it sends him flying and than rolling many feet away, but he gets back up like nothing happened.

My characters shrugged attacks from legitimate high tiers, while I proved your character frequently ends up incapacitated from minor physical traumas.

The difference in this section of our debate is obviously massive. Ajax may hope to be comparable to Hawkeye in strength, but it's not even a 1vs1 fight to matter. Batman alone dwarfs Ajax with his consistent wall busting tier showings of strength, and when you add Hawkeye on top of that, it's an obvious stomp, if it ever gets to CQC between these teams. When it comes to durability it's gets even worse for Francis. Hawkeye and Batman both scale a lot better, shrugging strikes from legitimate high tiers (massive multi tonners), while Ajax actually has rather poor showings if you take all of them into consideration.

As for his reflexes, he's top of the class in this category as well. In the second clip I posted we see him dodging shots from Wade, who in the same scene was established as an expert marksman with years of mercenary work under his belt.

Deadpool has decent accuracy, but he is not a flawless marksman. There are many instances of him completely missing his shots. In that particular instance (when shooting Francis on his motorbike) he was also just shot at, and didn't recover yet. You can even see one of his arms were injured. Obviously, he needs some time to recover all of the lost nerves, tissue, possibly even bones after getting shot all the way through his arm. So his aim and steady hand could've suffered from that when he shot at Ajax.

Many people would like to discredit this feat by labeling it as "aim dodging" because he moved before the vapor trail reached him. This point is moot as vapor trails aren't really a proper indicator of where a bullet is at the time as it is a "trail."

Well I'm not many people. I never said it's aim dodging because of the vapor trail. I said it's aim dodging, because he can see Deadpool aiming at him before he dodges, in bright daylight. In other words, he expects to be shot and can dodge based on a prediction, not simply based on his reflexes. That's called aim dodging. And your argument regarding vapor trail doesn't really make Ajax's feat here relevant.

Furthermore, we see him start moving after the round was fired, meaning regardless of weather or not he dodge the bullet by tracking Wade's aim or directly perceiving the bullet in flight, his reactions would still be far above anyone in this tournament.

Sorry, that's just a false statement on so many levels.

First of all, I've also shown my characters dodge bullets and other similar projectiles after the shot is fired. So he is not "far above" anyone in the tournament. He is not even above my characters. See here:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11131/111319081/7172489-3708372268-62626.gif

and here:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11131/111319081/7171667-5497319140-69032.gif

Secondly, that's just the way these scenes are shot tbh. It's a technique called shot/reverse shot, to show us, the audience, what is happening. they first show Deadpool shoots and than Ajax ducks. But this doesn't mean these two events are not happening at the same time. It's just shown us one after the other so we can keep track with what is going on.

I mean if you believe it's actually what happened in there, literally, then between the time Deadpool fires and Ajax dodges there's almost a full second of time, and the distance is super small, like 20 meters or so. Is the bullet from Deadpool's gun travelling at 20 m/s? Then it's far slower than Hawkeye's arrows even if he was throwing them by hand lol. This throws your milisecond calc straight into trash. Sorry. You can't really scale Ajax by cherry picking what factors you wanna take from the scene, and which you want to exclude. You either take the scene exactly how it is and then the bullet has a turtle speed, or you interpret it like logic dictates, but it takes away the feat of Ajax dodging the shot after it was already fired. Either way your conclusion is clearly false.

Thirdly, the problem for Ajax is, that this is not a consistent showing for him. He dodges/aim dodges bullets this one time, and then never repeats this feat. Like I said, he clearly expected to be shot at, so it can be just him aim-doding and getting lucky. We don't really know. The fact is, he is never shown to be this fast again. He actually jobbs on several occasions, and is outpaced by Deadpool many times. Deadpool, who is not even a bullet timer himself.

Yup, the showings you gave for Deadpool cutting the bullet also includes Deadpool TRYING to cut all of the bullets, but most of them goes through his parries and hits his body.

Deadpool attempts to parry the bullets

He comments on that, saying "Ufff these bullets are like, SUPER-FAST!" Yup, he can't really bullet time, even from a handgun, that no matter how modified, is still inferior in bullet speed to a sniper rifle that has a much longer barrel, allowing for more speed.

And that's actually much superior, more experienced version of Deadpool than rookie Deadpool Ajax fought in the first movie.

And on top of all that, Ajax only dodged one bullet at a time here. Deadpool literally shoots him once, than STOPS for over a second.

Hawkeye can fire 3 arrows in less than 2 seconds, and shoot his sniper rifle even faster then that. And there's also Batman, showering Ajax with batarangs and explosives at the same time.

So let's sum your problems so far with the "Ajax can dodge bullets" feat:

• Ajax is dodging a small firearm here, not a sniper rifle. He can't possibly react to a sniper shot based on this, no matter how you sugar coat it.
• Ajax is clearly aim-doding here, he is expecting to be shot at in bright daylight, which is not the case here, when he is about to get sniped in a dark warehouse.
• Ajax is in no way a casual bullet timer. Even EOS Deadpool is not a casual bullet timer, so Ajax who couldn't beat rookie Deadpool is in no way one.
• Your calc for the Ajax's reaction speed there is based on an incorrect assumption, and I explained why.
• Even if we took the feat the way you presented it, it's not a consistent showing of speed for Ajax at all. It could've been just some luck.
• I provided feats for my characters dodging much faster and superior projectiles, like dodging fire from large fire arms and alien laser guns, so they have superior reaction speed based on feats.
• Even if all of what you said was true, you only proved Ajax can dodge one projectile at a time, while having a clear visual on the shooter and expecting a shot. That doesn't explain how will he dodge both Hawkeye and Batman showering him with bullets and projectiles at a much faster pace and from many different angles, in complete darkness and with no visual.

Now I'm sure that many other characters in this tourney have dodged gunfire and similar projectiles before, however that's mostly due to the fact that they are an object in motion and the gunman's aim isn't up to the challenge. Ajax was on a motorcycle moving straight ahead, meaning his movement options were limited

HOW are your movement options limited on a vehicle that can move 10 times faster than you can naturally move? He can rapidly speed up, pull the breaks, make turns, jump/roll from the vehicle, duck with his head in all directions from the headshot (which is what he did). Not to mention, you are moving faster, so you are harder to tag with a gun. If anything, being on a motorcycle helped Ajax with this feat IMMENSELY.

and up against an established skilled mercenary who had hit every shot with extreme accuracy prior to this.

Also that's just reaction speed. There is SO MUCH MORE to combat mobility than just your reactions.

How about we talk about Ajax's awareness?

He is gonna have to react to UNEXPECTED shots after all, and fight multiple opponents at once.

If a random girl with a katana can one shot Ajax while he is engaged in 1vs1 combat.... AND already has the upper hand... you actually expect me to believe he can take on Batman in CQC and dodge Hawkeye's arrows AT THE SAME TIME? Sorry, it's not happening.

Also, how about we talk about Ajax's agility?

I've shown Ajax can't even gracefully land from a motorcycle crash or a handle a brief platform slide. Clearly, Ajax is a brick with very little acrobatic skill, especially for someone with supposedly such great speed and reflexes. This is no small factor in a warehouse fight, especially if your aim is to make it CQC as fast as possible.

In direct CQC, if it ever gets to it, you can expect Batman and Hawkeye to move around the battlefield with amazing display of skill. Dodging axe strikes and throws with sudden flips and rolls, instantly climbing crate shelves if they ever get cornered, doing double front flips clear above Ajax's swings and so on. Ajax is strong, fast and has a deadly weapon. this makes him dangerous, but when going up against multiple opponents at once, who have stats to keep up with yours, and have weapons they can one shot you with as well - you gotta do more than this. You need to show real skill, not just be able to swing your axes around. But we'll talk some more about that in the skill section below.

What about Ajax's overall lack of mobility abilities and tools?

Ajax can't fly around the warehouse, he has no grapples to move around and also has no agility to quickly climb/jump on top of he warehouse shelves. In a scenario like this, both Hawkeye and Batman can EASILY get in and out of combat with Ajax instantly, using their grapples and superior mobility, while he will be desperately running around the warehouse on the ground level, trying to keep up.

Now what's more is that with Daredevil's senses he'll have preemptive knowledge on the opponents positioning

Maybe with some luck, he may be able to tell where Hawkeye is camping, and where's Batman who tries to sneak up on him. But most of the times he probably still won't notice them. These two are still master ninjas/assassins so they are able to move and act in dead silence, they are trained to do it. Haweye, while camping, doesn't have to move at all. He can just sit quietly and scope the area from above. And I doubt Daredevil's senses will allow him to hear Barton's calm breath or heart beat across a huge warehouse. Unless, of course, you can prove he can. For now, the stealth clearly is still valid.

But even if you were right, this hardly matters. How will Ajax reach Hawkeye on his camping nest with no tools or agility to quickly climb there? Also Daredevil's senses will not tell Francis anything about traps Batman sets up. These are not moving. so he can still make use of prep and stealth to lure Ajax into a more comfortable position to him, even if his opponents knows where he is at the time.

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in addition and greater senses, which will further increase his reactionary ability. For reference, Matt Murdock who was a fairly average man in terms of physicality was able to flip between bullets due to his enhanced senses. Assuming he, without his senses, has an generous above average peak human reaction time of 100 milliseconds the advantage in initiative that his senses provides is overwhelming. Put these senses onto an already superhuman character like Ajax and you'll be hard-pressed to even land a blow on him let alone a decisive one.

I will not even address this in debth. I asked Geekryan to clarify this, and he proved this section of your post to be abuse of the perk. Ajax's reflexes are not enhanced here. He has his own reflexes here and that's it. And it won't be enough, which I proved above.

@geekryan said:

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Additionally, his senses also allow him to detect things with insane precision. So any traps and stealth will be rendered moot.

The link you provided only proved Daredevil can hear/detect a person, going door to door, presumably loudly and without proper stealth, in an apartment building. It's not proving at all, how can he detect traps set up by the duo assassins using prep. These will be subtle things like a crate ready to fall on your head if you step on a string, lurking in the shadows, or an explosive set on timer, with a person luring you into it with subtle noises and such. None of these are gonna make a noise, give out a scent or make a movement for you to detect. You are trying to handle all of the disadvantages you are facing with a single, cheap perk of increased sensibility. Sorry bud, but it's not happening.

And with a couple of flash bangs, any sneak attack that Ajax would attempt would easily be successful.

What exactly would he do with a flash bang? Besides, both of my characters have flash bangs/smokescreen cover gadgets as well to counter yours and even the field. And what sneak attacks Ajax can possibly pull off on the likes of a freakin Batman? Are enhanced senses of Daredevil suddenly give you his stealth feats as well, or are you suggesting Ajax can just sneak up on a couple of master assassins with prep?

And lastly, Adamantium. It needs no introduction. It cuts through anything. Renders durability feats moot. Especially in this setting.

Actually, I'd like some introduction. Geekryan said it's FOX adamantium, and it can't just cut anything. You need Wolverine's level of super strength to cut even through regular metal with it, let alone a super armor like Batman's. Can you please prove it can "cut through anything"? I've shown some absolutely absurd feats of durability for Batman's suit. You should have at least enough courtesy to prove why it's completely fodder here.

To be honest, I don't really believe Batman's suit can tank adamantium weaponry myself - but I don't think Ajax can one shot Batman with it either. The suit's high tier feats combined with Bruce's own durability will likely allow him to survive a swing or two especially if he blocks them with his gauntlets that I proved can no sell bladed weapons and bullets completely.

If one tries to block an axe strike rather than dodge whatever they block with will be cleaved in two and so will they.

Ok. Stating adamantium weapons have the cutting ability to go through anything instantly is one thing. But saying that AXE STRIKES can't be blocked? Dude, I mean COME ON.

Adamantium axe is not a lightsaber

You can GRAB THE BLADE BY THE SIDE OR THE TOP. Grab the entire axe by the handle as it swings down on you. You can block the strike by blocking THE HANDLE, which is probably what Batman would've done, going CQC with fists and batarangs against axes. Just blocking the strikes before the blade goes down. Like this:

A skilled combatant like Hawkeye and Batman can also use a variety of body blocks and parries to counter the use of an axe. To deal damage with an axe, you can't just tap someone. You have to take a full swing, which leaves you open for a counter strike every time you attack.

Because of this, axe is actually much easier to counter than a sword or a spear, and even much harder to counter than a knife, which we've seen Bruce handle no problems. For a pro it's not that difficult. Granted, Ajax has an advantage when it comes to reach of his weapons against Batman, but with a massive skill advantage in Batman's corner, it hardly matters. We've seen Batman disarming opponents with a lot faster and more convenient CQC weapons like knives even 1vs4. Batman will be blocking these axe swings and disarming Ajax in no time.

These axes are good weapons, by any means. But you are clearly overhyping them. Blocking and dodging Ajax's axes is not something impossible to do. Deadpool was able to do it casually, even though Ajax's default axes could still break and cut his swords. We've seen Hawkeye go up against Tchalla and his vibranium claws. We've seen Batman disarming parademons in a blink and fighting people armed with CQC weapons 1vs4 and disarming them casually. Ajax is not just walking up to my boys and cutting them in half. Sorry, it's not happening.

I also doubt they have enough gear on hand to lay down enough traps for it to have relevance. And if they do they themselves will be relatively low on gear.

I listed all of their gear and proposed what kinds of traps they could easily make out of it without losing any gear versatility. I don't undersand how is this statement debunking my prep in any way.

Additionally, one hour isn't sufficient time to prepare for a threat you have no knowledge.

I showed you Batman setting up a trap for thugs in the warehouse literally on the run, in a matter of seconds, a minute tops. You doubt he'd be able to set up ANYTHING to give him an advantage in AN HOUR? Bruh.

I also doubt that Bruce or Clint would do this in character.

So you expect two master assassins, trained to seak for every advantage in a battle, to sit around and pop bubble gum for an hour, waiting for Ajax to spawn? No way. Batman and Clint aren't wasting ANY TIME here. THAT's in character for them.

Clint was never shown to be a man to prep or set traps. The closest thing we've seen to that is getting in a decent position to fire which is nowhere near what you're proposing.

That's exactly what I said he would probably do with his prep time here. Set up an eagles nest beyond Ajax's reach and camp there to snipe him down. That's exactly what he did during the chitauri invasion with little to no time that he had.

The only other thing I said he'd also do during his prep is enhance some of his standard arrows with Batman's explosives, flash bangs and others, to recover some of his lost trick arrows. I can't see why he wouldn't do it. We see that Hawkeye takes great notice of his gear, because it's his only way of fighting. Before every main battle in Avengers, we see him pack and check his arrows and other stuff, while gearing up. His explosive arrow is his core weapon. Batman has glue-on explosives in his default gear, which I shown. So why exactly wouldn't Clint take advantage of that and prep some of exploding arrows out of that? You have to give me reasons. I don't think I'm pushing any limits here, it's clearly the LEAST the two could do. They are genius assassins, they are likely going to do this ANY much more in an hour they're given.

As for Bruce, the only time he's ever set traps was when he was fighting Superman and there he had several days and of prep, with resources he doesn't have access to in this scenario, and was motivated far more than he would be here.

I never said Batman would set up turrets here. I'd take the "prep anywhere" perk, but if Batman could do that, he would be far beyond the limits of our CaV. But like I said twice now, he was able to set up a convenient trap in seconds when entering the merc's warehouse. Why would you try to lowball Batman like this, assuming he won't be prepping any traps? Batman is KNOWN for prepping and trapping his opponents, everybody knows this. DCEU Batman is no excepion. In this scene, we also see him luring and trapping parademons under a building. He is inventing new ways of trapping his opponents literally as he fights. With one hour of prep, you really expect him to just stroll and whistle around the warehouse, instead of going around, setting up basic traps and seaking for any field advantage he can find?

Lastly, with the speed, senses, and Flashbangs getting in for a fatal blow would honestly be child's play.

How is that a child's play? You say that like it's obvious. HOW is Ajax getting on Clint's sniping position? How is he catching Batman off guard with him just grappling away? Ajax has NO mobility advantage here to use these flashbangs in any meaningful manner. He can't hope for a surprise attack at all.

Wait, that's it?

You barely mentioned any counter's for my team's weaponry and gadgets at all. How are you dealing with two people shooting at you at the same time? How are you dodging sniper shots? How are you dodging arrows/bullets from Hawkeye why you are engaged in CQC by Batman at the same time? Why can't Batman's magnetized explosives disarm Ajax's axes?

And most importantly...How do you expect Ajax can dodge or survive explosives at all? HOW? That's the whole point about bringing AOE weapons to the table, it's MAJOR advantage! They are AOE, which means you can't dodge it even if you could bullet time. Hell even if he can grab them mid-air they will still blow up in his face. And Ajax will not be expecting arrows to have any trick effects to them either, he has no knowledge perks or anything.

Honestly, there's so much stuff in each section you did not even touch or discuss. Shame, real shame bro.

You didn't even touch on that section at all. I still consider all of my feats and arguments valid then. Batman and Haweye have a great skill advantage over Ajax. And not just in stealth or marksmanship to take him down from the distance. Even if your dream scenario of CQC would somehow come true, you can't hope that Ajax will just beat these two pros 2 on 1 simply because he has a sharper weapon.

Ajax can't hope to beat my duo up close, and gets overwhelmed and sniped from range as well.

Another section that you barely talked about. Again, I can't see why my initial strategy is invalidated by your post. Clint will be on the top of the situation, capable of showering Ajax with projectiles from safe distance. Ajax can't get to him without proper gadgets or skills, and he has no feats or means to dodge his sniper rifle, or AOE arrows. To be honest, he can't even hope to dodge his standard arrows when Batman and his traps serve as a distraction, due to Ajax's poor awareness. Batman and his traps are also more than Ajax can handle. If Ajax locates Batman with his DD senses, and tries to engage Batman - he pulls a string Bats prepped and gets burried under a pile of crates or triggers an explosive beneath his feet. If he somehow gets into CQC - Batman just disarms him from his axes using his superior skill, training, combat speed, agility, strength, and all other advantages he holds in H2H combat over Ajax. While he fights Batman, he is likely to get an arrow in the back too.