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#1 Edited by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

Teams:

@skit:

Motoko Kusangi (Mother Box, Adamantine ammo)

Wu Geng (Fire ring)

Zhen Chan (All planeter rings but fire ring)

Goemon Ishikawa XIII (Oni Mask)

Devilman (Head of Euryale, Claws of Hades)

Sniper (Doctor Dooms Armor, Gem of Uroboros, Cold gun and 5 cold grenades)

@mr_ingenuity:

Amadeus Cho(Dr. Dooms armor)

Hercules(Depowered)(Destroyer Armor)

Bruce Banner (T-Spheres)

Robert Baldwin(7 Tailsman)

Caerula Sanguis(Witchblade)

Zazie

For those wondering why these characters have completely abnormal gear, that is the fun part of this tourney. Participants were allowed to select gear to give to their characters.

Rules:

No prep, except ONE MONTH training in the use of all weapons.

Teamwork is a factor. Your team won't fight itself, but it won't always work together perfectly either.

Characters will only know about other characters from canon encounters.

No telefrag.

No PIS or Plot powers.

No time travel

Intangibility only lasts for 30 seconds and ther's a 30 second gap between usage.

Standard Gear.

Personal insults will lead to the insulter getting banned.

Voting closes after 2 weeks. Unconditionally. Post by then.

I ref matches.

No lowballing or highballing.

Battlefield:

JLA moon based watchtower.

Here's a map:

@skit will start in the Arboretum(24), while @mr_ingenuity will start in the Stellar Telescope.

The vaccum of space will still kill unprotected members, so be careful.

The Teleporters are inactive and all the shuttles have no fuel.

The trophy room is packed with these objects:

  • Z'onn Z'orr Globe - Model reveals the White Martians' planned realignment of Earth's continents.
  • I.F. - The "implicate field" is a 32nd-century quantum technology weapon confiscated from the Lord of Time.
  • The Key's Key-Ring - A sample of the villains skeleton keys and psychotropic chemical injectors
  • The Royal Flush Gang - Over-sized playing cards replicate a two-dimensional trap once holding the Gangs Ten, Hi-Jack, Queen, King, and Ace.
  • Solaris - Illuminating facsimile of the 853rd-century tyrant sun, a super-computer defeated by the JLA and Justice Legion A.
  • Piranha Penguins - Justice League Antarctica encountered Adelie penguins bioengineered to have the teeth and voraciousness of Amazonian piranha.
  • Traumiel's Ashes - Remains of the angel loyal to Asmodel who was disintegrated by Zauriel's sonic scream are mounted on canvas with runes etched by Zauriel to describe the event.
  • Engine of Chance - Deceased quantum physicist Julian September'sprobability-altering machine, capable of re-ordering reality by a factor of "lucky" seven.
  • Kirby Dots - Bits of "dark matter" sealed in a vacuum chamber pending study.
  • Artificial Kryptonite - Radiation-depleted isotope of the rare element.
  • The Bug - Miniature model of Blue Beetle's scarab-shaped hover-ship.
  • Worlogog - Kyle Rayner's sculpted interpretation of the "Philosopher's Stone" - the reality-altering Worlogog that Lex Luthor wielded against the JLA.
  • Parademon Armor - Headpiece worn by Darkseid's elite flying stormtroopers
  • Prometheus' Helmet - The murderous mastermind's computerized helmet was scuttled by Batman after downloading its wealth of information onto JLA archive servers.
  • Amazo's Head - Deactivated central processing unit from one of the android'searly prototype bodies.
  • The Ray's Crash Helmet - Spare helmet worn by Ray Terrill (The Ray), briefly a member of the Justice League Task Force before joining Young Justice.
  • Little Leaguers - Malicious micro-robot duplicates of the Justice League built by the Toyman and Abra Kadabra.
  • Brain Storm's Thinking Cap - This channels stellar energy to boost intelligence, animates objects, enables its wearer to hurl "star-bolts," and permits teleportation.
  • Starro Probe - Stasis tank keeps the Star Conqueror's face-hugging mental probe inert. Occasional feeding is required.
  • Power Battery - Replica of original Green Lantern Alan Scott's emerald power battery, carved from the meteoric Starheart, repository of the universe's random magicks.
  • Triumph - The Justice League's "lost" founding member William MacIntyre(Triumph) is forever frozen, transformed into a statue of ice for his treachery by the Spectre. Cooling units keep sublimation to a minimum, should the Spirit of Wrath choose to offer McIntryre a reprieve.
  • Trick Arrows - A sample of Green Arrow Oliver Queen's shafts.
  • Potrait Gallery - Holographic bank depicts constantly rotating assemblage of every JLA hero and heroine.
  • Gamma Gong - Dhorian dictator Kanjar Ro's paralyzing weapon. When struck, the Gong incapacitates anyone in its vicinity.
  • Superman-Robot Costume - Uniform worn by one of the robotic Men of Steelcreated by Superman to police the Earth
  • Batarangs - Working samples of Batman's signature weapon.
  • Blue Beetle's Weaponry - Compressed air-firing B.B. Gun; replica of first Beetle Dan Garrett's mystical scarab; hand-held remote for the high-flying Bug.
  • Wandjina's Labyris - Battleaxe belonging to " The Thunderer," a parallel dimension hero who perished stopping a Russian nuclear reactor meltdown after attempting to rid the communist nation of its deadly atomic arsenal.
  • Aztek's Helm - The late Justice Leaguer's sunmotif helmet was the source of his 4-dimensional powers. It remains in JLA possession pending a custody battle initiated by Aztek's former benefactors, the Q Foundation.
  • Martian Jump-Ship - Unaltered model of the Martian shuttle, seen in its primary configuration.
  • Key-Men - The Key's helper automatons with their clockwork motivators safely removed.
  • S.T.A.R. Labs Shuttle - Scale model of a prototype spacecraft rescued by the JLA.

These items can all be looted and used.

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#2 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: Great OP tags work. Ignore that is was a delayed post.

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#4 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit

Training

Amadeus Cho(Dr. Doom's armor)

Amadeus' month of training will be to master the higher functions of the armor. Things such as shields, teleporters, telepathic blockers, etc. Although Amadeus will be far from mastery Doom shows he won't be far from it.

Amadeus has show with a direct line to the hulkbuster armor he can access it's memory and programs.

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The magical enhancements Amadeus may not entirely understand or uses but he will only need the tech side of the armor.

Hercules(Depowered)(Destroyer Armor)

No training necessary honestly seeing as the armor perfect weapon for any brute. Once Herc soul is placed inside the armor he takes control, while his body is left inanimate. So the only things veruable is his soul & body.

Destroyer armor has durability & strength far above thor. Also has the ability to incinerate Thor level durability from hand & eye beams. Herc also has his standard equipment Sword of Peleus, Shield of Perseus, & Helm of Hades not that he needs them.

Bruce Banner (T-Spheres)

T-Spheres are no problem for Banner to handle .Although Banner won't have the thought control without the t-mask, Banner can easily reprogram them, seeing as banner tech has been able to control Pym's tech & shut off Doom's armor. Banner will know the full capacity & with little doubt master the T- Spheres.

Robert Baldwin(7 Talisman)

Robert mastering the talismans is childs play literally. There are dozens of instances where a child or animal receives and controls the talismans with ease.

Caerula Sanguis(Witchblade)

Caerula doesn't necessarily have to master the witchblade as it responds/adapts to the situation & users needs. It will enhance her superhuman abilities off the charts.

Zazie

Abilities

  • Cyborg built for combat abilities
  • Superhuman reaction speed
  • Superhuman durability
  • Walking arsenal everything from thermite, osmium bullet, nets, land mines etc.
  • a degree of superhuman strength not so much as shown but considering cyborg body noted
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#5 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: I'm going to skip doing bios for Devilman and Sniper since we can always refer to our previous debate for both of them.

Bios

Motoko

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Motoko basically is a cyborg police officer and a top of the line one at that. Her powers include

Super Stats: Do to her mostly mechanical based body, Motoko is capable out muscling a helicopter, jumping 100s of feet and casually dodging bullets from point blank range.

Durability: Another perk of her body is having a very high level of durability. Able to take bullets to the chest with no noticeable damage and be crushed to the point of causing a crater barely phasing her.

Hacking: Motoko's hacking ability to a degree that it could almost be considered technopathy due to her ability to manipulate and interact with even people's subconscious(assuming they have any sort of implants). She has even hacked the fellow members of her squad before multiple times and even got a further boost after her time with the laughing man.

Skills: Not a power per se, but Motoko due to her multiple forms of training and ability to download information into her brain has gain extensive skills in martial arts. In addition her aim is highly impressive able to shoot down a bullet with a simple download of a program on the fly.

Her Gear includes various guns and HV rounds. Bullets that travel several times faster than normal.

Wu Geng

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Wu Geng was the son of a King and a god, then they died and he soon followed. He got a second chance at life though and after several years of situations like slavery and a revolution he's had no choice but to become stronger to survive. Making use of his heritage he's grown in strength to the point he is today. His powers include

Divine Power: Monochrome: A conceptual black hole in his body that absorbs everything even things that normally couldn't be interacted with such as powers and color itself(hence the name).

Smelting Aura: A pseudo matter manipulation allowing him to make physical objects out of an energy that all living things emit. In his case he forms a fully functioning arm after he lost his.

Vanishing Arts: Basically teleportation, though it can be used on others without physical contact

Soul Gear: Weapons formed from and using the power coming from one's own soul. In Wu Gengs case it's a large hand gun, portable cannon and a full out traditional cannon.

Superhuman Stats and Durability: Due to his heritage, Wu Geng has strength and speed far surpassing that of a normal humans and even outdoing the average god by a good degree.

His gear includes a knife, bullets for his soul gear guns and an assortment of stuff like smoke and poison bombs.

Zhen Chan

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Viewed as one of the most powerful amongst the gods, Zhen Chan holds the title of Sage King a title reserved for the top 3 "warriors". The title is misplaced though as he holds no interest in war and only fights when someone is truly blasphemous or threatens the gods entire race.His powers include

Divine Power: Eternal Life: I will elaborate on this further as this covers way to many things.

Mantra: Basically magic

Super Stats: Due to his physiology as a god.

His only gear is his beads which can be used with his mantra to grow and shrink in size.

Goemon

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The 13th descendant of the real life Goemon Ishikawa(basically the japanese and samurai equivalent to Robin Hood). Goemon is a highly skilled samurai who acts more like a ninja. He doesn't technically have any powers, but he still has

Reaction Speed/Precog: Due to his super tropey ninja/samurai senses, Goemon has an insane level of reaction speed that basically could be considered precog. Able to even deflect bullets being shot from a whole group firing at him and even time his sword swing so it would hit a lightning bolt.

Skills: Goemon has received training in multiple unarmed and sword based MA's.

His main potency come from his sword who's name has changed over the years(what can you expect from a 40+ year old series), but let's just call it the shooting star. It has the power to cut through anything, further enhanced to toonforcey levels at times being able to cut the moon in half and even the film/universe. These are gag feats, so for that reason and the sake of this tournament those type of feats won't be used for obvious reasons.

Proof and use of Items

Motoko: No proof is necessary for her as one of her two things are bullets and the mother box can be used by anybody. As for use, no explanation for the bullets. As for the Mother Box, an explanation is probably in order as to what it can do, here is the description from one of the old fourth world comics.

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TL;DR-A sentient computer with matter manip and other crazy powers. Scroll down to abilities here to give you an idea of some of it's uses in the past. I will further elaborate later, only thing you need to know now is that Motoko will fuse with it.

Wu Geng: The fire ring unlike the other Planeteer rings, doesn't require anything besides a bit more a bit more aggressive personality which Wu geng satisfies.

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Zhen Chan: This one is more proof based as the rings require care for all life, be peaceful and generally care for the environment. Well he definitely meets the requirement. I mean look at this guy.

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I mean his power causes/makes rainbows, sunshine, butterflies and plants to just grow because he's walking.

Goemon: No requirement besides wearing and I assume you know the ONI mask since your using JCA talismans.

Devilman: No requirements for either of the GOW magic/gear.

Sniper: Should be able to get used to and use Dooms armor within a month, especially if allowed aid from Motoko. @highaccuser are teams allowed to help others use their gear? Also unlike Amadeus Cho he will be able to resist and easily fight off the armor and by that IIRC Doom's will/personality remains within the suit and attacks anybody else that try's wearing it. I need to recheck this though as I may be wrong about that and or confusing it with something else so take it with a grain of salt. Cold Gun and GOW amulet are both require nothing and are simple to use.

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#6 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: I'm going to abstain from posting my plan for now due to me not knowing anything about Caerula Sanguis, Zazie or what your bringing with banner since his gear can vary.

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#7 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: yes teammates can help train with weapons.

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#8 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7513 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: yes teammates can help train with weapons.

Oh my this is a new development. I didn't know that...

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#9 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: Posting section by section gives everything a chance to be discussed. As for the armor I showed Amadeus hacking Hulkbuster & he also has banners tech to disable functions.

Strategy

Banner

Bio & gear(black text box).

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Shield protects from 100+ ton hits, energy blast and react up to 1000th of a second when not active.

Tanks hit from various heavy hitters. Note Reed states Juggernauts punches reach 8 on the richter scale.

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Reaction. Also note the nineties that is constantly seeding the air to hack or disrupt weapons & tech.

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The Old Power Taser stun, stops, or cripples Hulks in a few blast.

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Sensory, teleportation & hacking equipment.

Hacks missiles near impact. Scans 50 feet constantly. Teleports from new york to new mexico. Diables doom armor. Scans & tracks robot hulk's energy. Lastly health scan on Pym.

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Banner will lead his team as strategist. Knowing that Herc, Cerula & Robert are the strongest fighters, Banner have Amadeus teleport them to your team first along with 2 t-sphere equipped with banner tech for eyes and ears. Next keep the safety of Herc's body by giving him an always on shield. Finally teleporting in two minutes later with Amadeus & Zazie for added support.

Amadeus Cho

Having learned Doom's armor he will follow Banner's instructions getting Herc, Cerula & Robert where they need to be.The time platform will be the his method of moving them it can teleport through time, space, and dimensions. Moving his team is not a problem.

Teleports reed, johnny & Ben instantly.

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Teleports from Mephisto's realm back to latveria.

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Then uses it to cloak for stealth so he may move freely when engaging your team. He won't do much but blast away out of sight or hack veruable equipment.

The cloak allows him to walk with storm, colossus & wolverine unnoticed.

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.

Blast that hurt Hulk.

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.

Hercules

Herc will waste no time fighting since @highaccuser stated this was a death match. Starting with long range disintegrating blast moving closer for hand to hand. Plus your team has no way of hurting the Destroyer armor or herc's body.

Energy

Puts a massive wound in hulk, burns thor, & brakes mjolnir.

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Strength

Destroyer easily goes blow for blow with thor & Ko's him.

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Durability

Thors best hits can't scratch it.

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Stated to be superior in durability to adamantium & uru.

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Caerula Sanguis

A vampire or type-V mutant (having the type - v virus)

Mutant abilities

  • Super strength
  • Super reaction speed
  • "neural pulse flow sensing" basic mumbo jumbo to say precog
  • minor healing factor increases with blood drinking.

Her strength is enough shake Alita's core/spine in her Imaginos body which is far superior to steel but it doesn't do any lasting damage. Although it jogs a memory.

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Put into Perspective.

Early in the series Alita is sent flying or cratered into things without any harm done to her core/spine.

Gets cratered into a steel wall completely fine.

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Then sent through it no sign of damage.

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These are low end feats.

Also clash with Victor while deviating the surroundings.

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.

Super sonic speed is a given seeing how she can dodge Alita's punch avoiding being turned to paste & reflects bullets off her sword

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The punch has to be high supersonic (mach 2-4 range). Turning a cyborg's body into tiny missiles destroying an aircraft as a side effect.

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Continuous bullet timing form a vamp.

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As for her precog basic explanation. Precog allows her to sense the flow of air molecules.

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As for healing factor it kept her alive 55 years & heals he missing arm without nourishment only needing blood of a few men.

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She very tactical using every move to set up for a kill shot.

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Hand to hand skills

Caerula can detect & defeat invisible opponents in armor with one strike.

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And shown to be more skilled than Alita.

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Knowing everything about Panzer Kunst, Alita's martial arts. Making Alita specifically demand a sword battle. Which Alita loses.

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A simple palm strike rag dolls a man.

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Weapons skills

Throws a hundred + knives nigh instantly. The knives weren't for show they set up Alita's death (note scan set below)

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Alita specifically states Caerula's striking speed isn't even one third of Alita's top speed. But Alita has all the cuts not only that Caerula wasn't even touched.

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Even further down the line of the fight Alita loses, only due to plot does she survive (Note knives carved out the symbol for death)

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Durability

Caerula has been impelled by Victor in full battle mode and wasn't KOed. While Victor is swinging Caerula's body he gets distracted & she goes in for the kill.

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Here is what Victor does to normal human & the Gateway Arch

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He had already cut into the Gateway Arch with casual sword swings then Caerula kick dislodges it.

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Caerula will face anyone the Destroyer hasn't gotten to. As shown she is capable of matching characters above her in speed, strength, & durability. Add in in the witchblade (scans will be posted in next post far to many currently) & any character she faces should be at a disadvantage.

Robert Baldwin

Roberts power allows him to absorb and redirect kinetic energy. Absorbing more when he feels pain, & redirecting 100+ ton hits when focused.Considering the talismans he will have supersonic speed, super strength/durability, regenerative healing factor, immortality, heat vision, pyrokinesis etc. All of this will allow him to disrupt any plans your team crates, such as shape shifting members to animals for easy kills.

Post scans next reply

Zazie

Zazie is the weapon expert. Seeing as my team can't be hurt by anything in her arsenal she has free reign on attacks. Shooting grenades, thermite grenades, firing a hail of bullets. There is nothing she has to hold back.

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#10 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Going to post my teams capabilities with their gear and my actual strategy.

Motoko with the Motherbox

I'm going to spend the most time with this as this is going to my equivalent to you having hercules with the Destroyer armor. Let's start off small and work our way up. The Motherbox is a very powerful and very versatile(having shown little to no limitations) technology made by the the highly advanced new gods. This is a top tier race when it comes to technology even by DC in Marvel standards. They regularly tap into the source, a thing of infinite energy created by the questionably omnipotent god of DC. They have even made technology that recreate entire universes like the Genesis Box. Batman very recently even said he couldn't even figure out how to make one work

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It's love by the way

So to say they're technologically capable is a bit of an understatement. Anyways, what does the Mother Box do, well almost anything like I said before. The notable things include Batman taking hit's from Darkseid despite being an outdated(based off the fact that it was running out of energy) pawned off one.

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Allow Orion be in the middle of an explosion acting as nothing is happening even though he's being destroyed at a molecular level.

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Heal wounds terrible burns in a single panel(sorry it's really small)

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Now for the big set from Hunter/Prey where Doomsday got a massive amp. To the point where he didn't require death to evolve and was only getting stronger as time went on. He even early on effortlessly smacked around Darkseid nearly killing after the briefest of fights

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Some time after the beatdown

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When it came time for Superman to rise and defeat him, he didn't. Actually quite they opposite he actually was terrified of the hurt as he puts it.

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He come's back though, 90's afied and now with a better, but equally pawned off as Batman's Motherbox.

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What does it do you may be asking, well first off amplify his stats greatly

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Thinking he's oh so smart he try's using heat vision which DD adapts to immediately

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So he decides to say F it and goes flying brick mode, which works surprisingly well until DD of course get's wise to it.

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What is superman to do with DD adapting to 2 of Superman's tons of powers. Use any of the other one's, nope. MB time. He uses the sword given to him and it can cut clean through DD and this would actually had worked had it not been for his HF.

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Now what, sonic gun

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Rinse and repeat until Superman sends him to the end of time

So how does all this apply to Motoko well the most obvious is that the MB can create Superman+ level stuff easily and it doesn't take much imagination as to what it can do for somebody who's already 90% technology

Wu Geng

The only time the ring will get any use is if I decide to summon Captain Planet.

Zhen Chan

Due to the environment only the heart ring will be used unless again I decide to use Captain Planet. Well absorbing all the moisture from your team or manipulating the blood also suffocating/sucking their air out are options to, but that would be out of character. Back to Heart Power though, it's actually way less crappy and far more powerful than the show had originally shown. It's powers include immunity to mind control, empathy, telepathy, the ability to communicate with animals, read people's feelings, passively K.O., mind reading and his own form of mind control that works on people and animals( to the point where a villian even claimed Ma Ti could control the hearts of the entire world). Because Ma Ti was completely incompetent he never used his powers to their full extent. Though according to TV tropes there was an episode where Ma Ti went full on planetary dictator in the future, though I can't seem to find it not even remember it so I'm going to chalk that one up as not existing. Some proof for those powers though Watch from 30:20-30:32

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A future Ma Ti uses Mind Control to make a guy give him money

Linking the next two since they won't play for some reason, it's also a two part thing.

Part 1 watch 7:05-7:11 can read minds, 9:00-part 2

Part 2 0:00-0:05 K.O. two guards, 1:05-1:12 telepathic link, 6:42-6:54 pseudo penance stare.

Goemon and the Oni mask

The Oni mask I chose was the one that summons the shadow eaters. 5:40-50, 6:23-25, 8:00-40, 9:13-16, 9:25-50, 18:00-51

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Devilman

Head of Euryale-turns enemies and even other Gorgon to stone

9:45 onwards you get to see it in action as well it's description

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Claws of Hades- Can rip out the soul of enemies as well as summon them to fight for you.

At 7:20 he rips out even Hades soul with his own weapons, Hades commanded and contained thousands of souls as seen at the end where they just pour out of him.

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All the different types of souls he can summon with the benefit they come with like the gorgon still turn enemies to stone.

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Sniper

Same as before, you already know Dooms armor and with Motoko's help he will get the full use out of it.

Gem of Uroboros-Gives him time manipulation

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Cold gun and 5 cold grenades-Self explanatory, plus I assume you know how powerful they are. If not they're weapons that freeze at absolute zero. His gun can be used as a typical one or create a cold field like this

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The grenades have to large an AOE, so I'm not even going to bother using them given the heavily contained location.

Strategy

First off, Motoko with the aid of the Mother Box will take all of that technology off your hands. Motoko's already an extremely competent hacker able to hack even her own teammates(who are top class as well) in seconds like this.

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The first time they even met, while he was punching her across the room, she was able to hack his eyesight to create illusions. For actual tangible feats though, by the end of the first season she get's this good if not better. Watch 1:00-3:25

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Hacks the camera and the device transmitting the footage, every single person's eye's he passed and even there thoughts to the point where they actually believed the logo was his real face all the while running from the police. Now if it was just Motoko, then yes it would be questionable to simply hack your teams stuff. But she also has the mother box, which can hack apokoliptian tech on the fly.

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This will take care of Banner and Cho for the most part.

Motoko with the MB will also at some point Boom Tube all the stuff in the trophy room. Boom Tube can made in a second and can be big enough to send New Gods and Apokoliptians through them who are actually giants that shrink when they go to Earth(via boom tube). Here's the size of one of Darkseid's lackeys who's shorter than him,

Next up Hercules and the destroyer armor. While you are correct it is > my entire team with the exception of Motoko who could at least stand up to it(however brief that may be). There are still plenty of options for my team to beat it.

Option 1. Goemon cut's it up. His sword can cut through anything even the film/animation(of course this is the toonforcey feats I was talking about), the destroyer armor is no exception. This though would not be the smartest option as he is still human and would get killed from the other members of your team.

Option 2. Devilman via the Claws of Hades rips Hercules(well his soul) out of the armor deactivating the destroyer armor and killing Heracleous body in the process. Devilman could also maybe turn it/him to stone

Option 3. Zhen Chan through his own illusionary or dream based powers could keep Hercules out of the battle. Additionally use the heart ring to manipulate him go back into his body thus deactivating the suit.(Let's just go with this one for now). I've already gone over the power of heart so I'll give you an example ZC's powers

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Option 4. Wu Geng sucks the life out of him like this, mind you this was only the second time he had ever used to power and this was an unintentional side effect

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Option 5: Freeze it/him either in time(amulet of Uroborus) or literally by shooting him with the cold gun

Now for Caerula, Goemon will take her on. This video should give you a good enough idea of his capabilities and why he can take her on. Sorry for the music.

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Wu Geng will take on Penance he can simply suck the life out of him as I showed earlier, or just teleport him out of the base letting him float in and since I assume he needs to breath, die in space. Going to have to link the website since I can't take the scans from the page for some reason.

Using teleportation/vanishing arts on others

Using teleportation himself, also resisting freezing read 21-24

Edit: Thought about it and realized this option is a out of character as he's only used Vanishing arts on others once. So new option. Penance makes his field, Wu Geng Monochromes it like this also a brief description of the power in the first scan

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Then punch him with enough force to shatter a god's(even the children can be considered superhuman in their stats and durability) skull and a good chunk of the statue with which he did it on.

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or shoot him with one of his various guns

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Feats with the gun

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Sniper will put a hole in Zazie's head with some random object or just blast him with the Doom armor.

Edit: feats for Snipers

Skill

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power

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In addition to all of this, the Shadow Eaters will be going after your teams shadows.

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#11 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by lol (5441 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit:

First off, Motoko with the aid of the Mother Box will take all of that technology off your hands. Motoko's already an extremely competent hacker able to hack even her own teammates(who are top class as well) in seconds like this.

The first time they even met, while he was punching her across the room, she was able to hack his eyesight to create illusions. For actual tangible feats though, by the end of the first season she get's this good if not better. Watch 1:00-3:25

Hacks the camera and the device transmitting the footage, every single person's eye's he passed and even there thoughts to the point where they actually believed the logo was his real face all the while running from the police. Now if it was just Motoko, then yes it would be questionable to simply hack your teams stuff. But she also has the mother box, which can hack apokoliptian tech on the fly.

This will take care of Banner and Cho for the most part.

While there is no doubt the mother box is high level tech, the scan you've show is a proficient user cutting the power. Which is sub par considering the feats I've shown. Not saying Banner or Amadeus will hack or will need to. Considering the mother box can adapt to jamming tech.

But Motoko has no way of replicating that feat. Seeing as the mother box directed Orion & did not act alone. Motoko without sufficient skills/knowledge of her own will be nothing more than a distraction. Not hindering Banner or Amadeus form entering the fight.

Banner created a program that defended itself form Hank & tony attempts to hack it. Banner prepared for them but still notes how advanced his teach can be.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
right to left

Motoko with the MB will also at some point Boom Tube all the stuff in the trophy room. Boom Tube can made in a second and can be big enough to send New Gods and Apokoliptians through them who are actually giants that shrink when they go to Earth(via boom tube). Here's the size of one of Darkseid's lackeys who's shorter than him,

I need you to clarify here. Not understanding what Motoko will do with the trophies or why size manipulation factors in.

Next up Hercules and the destroyer armor. While you are correct it is > my entire team with the exception of Motoko who could at least stand up to it(however brief that may be). There are still plenty of options for my team to beat it.

Motoko has superman level durability at best. But Thor has many comparable durability feats & the destroyer killed him.

Now before I counter the points below I would like to point out my team has teleported ready to attack. Where your team will be unsuspecting with nothing to guard them. So it your team first move isn’t to dodge they stand no chance.

But form what is shown I doubt anyone on your team can escape the speed or the range of the Destroyer beams.

The beam has traveled from Hel (Hela’s dimension) to earth in a few panels at near light speed.

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Option 1. Goemon cut's it up. His sword can cut through anything even the film/animation(of course this is the toonforcey feats I was talking about), the destroyer armor is no exception. This though would not be the smartest option as he is still human and would get killed from the other members of your team.

You conceded here but I would like to know why you consider this an option. I can assure you nothing less than the Odin force on panel has damaged the Destroyer.

So I’m interested to know what is the most durable material the sword has cut?

Option 2. Devilman via the Claws of Hades rips Hercules(well his soul) out of the armor deactivating the destroyer armor and killing Heracleous body in the process. Devilman could also maybe turn it/him to stone

From the video show CoH has to cut to rip out a soul. The CoH will break before they scratch the Destroyer Armor.

This would work as the Destroyer has matter manipulation of it’s own. Also Devilman’s equipment has never transmuted anything of Destroyer’s durability.

Option 3. Zhen Chan through his own illusionary or dream based powers could keep Hercules out of the battle. Additionally use the heart ring to manipulate him go back into his body thus deactivating the suit.(Let's just go with this one for now). I've already gone over the power of heart so I'll give you an example ZC's powers

When Odin (the creator) was faced against the destroyer armor(in the hands of Loki) he cast his magic on Loki’s body to deactivate the Destroyer.

So Zhen will need to uses his powers on Herc’s body to accomplish anything. But he has no knowledge of the destroyer or Herc’s body.

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Option 4. Wu Geng sucks the life out of him like this, mind you this was only the second time he had ever used to power and this was an unintentional side effect

The destroyer isn’t living it’s animated.

Option 5: Freeze it/him either in time(amulet of Uroborus) or literally by shooting him with the cold gun

While time stop will work, Sniper has to have it in hand ready to use at the instant the destroyer appears.

But Freezing will not work as the output of the destroyer is far greater than anything the cold gun’s can freeze.

At the very least it's multi-mountain buster, & at its peak planet buster.

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Now for Caerula, Goemon will take her on. This video should give you a good enough idea of his capabilities and why he can take her on. Sorry for the music.

Now you believe Goemon is a match for standard Caerula. But Caerula isn’t standard she has the witchblade, that will protect Caerula & fight along side her.

The Witchblade has morphing abilities for multi-directional attacks.

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Also energy projection that has been show to destroy molecular bonds.

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Mute FTW ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Wu Geng will take on Penance he can simply suck the life out of him as I showed earlier, or just teleport him out of the base letting him float in and since I assume he needs to breath, die in space. Going to have to link the website since I can't take the scans from the page for some reason.

Edit: Thought about it and realized this option is a out of character as he's only used Vanishing arts on others once. So new option. Penance makes his field, Wu Geng Monochromes it like this also a brief description of the power in the first scan

Then punch him with enough force to shatter a god's(even the children can be considered superhuman in their stats and durability) skull and a good chunk of the statue with which he did it on.

or shoot him with one of his various guns

Robert’s speed-ball effect is enough for him to take hits from Kuurth add in supersonic speed & Wu should never get hurt Robert.

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But if Robert does get hurt. Then considering Robert’s degree of immortality & a healing factor comparable to Deadpool, KO is improbable.

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Plus Robert will be turning your team into animal. Which should work on Zhen, Wu, Devilman and Goemon. If they some how passed the destroyer.

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Sniper will put a hole in Zazie's head with some random object or just blast him with the Doom armor.

I doubt sniper will survive the first wave (Herc, Caerula, & Robert) But he won't get past Banner’s shields which react at over mach 5.

In addition to all of this, the Shadow Eaters will be going after your teams shadows.

Those shadows will be destroyed at every turn from my team weapons. Also being to slow for Robert & Caerula.

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#14 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

This may seem a bit choppy. If I missed anything I apologise, I started and finished this at two separate times.

@mr_ingenuity said:

But Motoko has no way of replicating that feat. Seeing as the mother box directed Orion & did not act alone. Motoko without sufficient skills/knowledge of her own will be nothing more than a distraction. Not hindering Banner or Amadeus form entering the fight.

Motoko has 3 months with it, a Mother Box will treat user as if it really was it's own child. As such no skill is required to use it as seen with Batman, Superman and Steel all using it with absolutely no instructions, the reason why Batman can't use the one from the scanned I showed earlier is because he's an unloving dick. The Mother Box was doing it on it's own though, it was breaking through Darkseid's jamming unbeknownst to Orion.

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This is of course not even taking into consideration the fact that the Mother Box has straight up technopathy(I'm looking for a good scan of this).

Banner created a program that defended itself form Hank & tony attempts to hack it. Banner prepared for them but still notes how advanced his teach can be.

IM was left amazed by a Mother Box when he briefly got one in JLA/Avengers(I no longer own a copy of it, so I'll have to see if I can find any scans from it). He able to do way more than normal from a technology standpoint and IIRC he even managed to beat Flash with the MB's aid.

I need you to clarify here. Not understanding what Motoko will do with the trophies or why size manipulation factors in.

Just getting rid of them, I simply don't want the stuff to be involved regardless if you or my team ends up possessing it.

Motoko has superman level durability at best. But Thor has many comparable durability feats & the destroyer killed him.

Like I said for however brief that maybe, though unlike Thor she get's the benefit of having an extremely high level HF.

Now before I counter the points below I would like to point out my team has teleported ready to attack. Where your team will be unsuspecting with nothing to guard them. So it your team first move isn't to dodge they stand no chance.

MB will pick up on them before they even teleport, the scan I showed above picked up Darkseid when Orion had no clue he was even there. IM in JLA/Avengers used it to track people that his suit couldn't due to distance. There's also the heart ring which can be used to locate and sense living things.

But form what is shown I doubt anyone on your team can escape the speed or the range of the Destroyer beams.

The beam has traveled from Hel (Hela’s dimension) to earth in a few panels at near light speed.

While the blasts are far faster than my team, the armor itself isn't. Motoko could very easily rush it and do another option I just thought of, which is to just Boom Tube it to Apokolips or really wherever. Motoko is telepathically linked to the MB and boom tubes are a commodity amongst the New Gods and apokoliptians

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You conceded here but I would like to know why you consider this an option. I can assure you nothing less than the Odin force on panel has damaged the Destroyer.

So I’m interested to know what is the most durable material the sword has cut?

It's a toon force based sword that can cut through anything even metals supposedly deemed indestructible/uncuttable. He's cut everything from shooting stars while sitting on earth, the moon and as shown in the video the animation even. Think about this too, he cut a tornado in half. No matter how powerful the cut, it shouldn't just stop like it does. The sword is clearly not meant to have any sort of limit as to what it can cut.

From the video show CoH has to cut to rip out a soul. The CoH will break before they scratch the Destroyer Armor.

As far as I know that's never been stated as a requirement and considering it was holding his soul after an not his physical body it would seem to not matter. Honestly that more just seems like typical GOW stuff with the series constantly having a brutal/gore boner. I'll look into this though to see if theres any examples of him doing it

This would work as the Destroyer has matter manipulation of it’s own. Also Devilman’s equipment has never transmuted anything of Destroyer’s durability.

Fair enough

When Odin (the creator) was faced against the destroyer armor(in the hands of Loki) he cast his magic on Loki’s body to deactivate the Destroyer.

So Zhen will need to uses his powers on Herc’s body to accomplish anything. But he has no knowledge of the destroyer or Herc’s body.

Wait are you having Hercules control it or give the destroyer full control? This will change stuff up depending on which you have in mind.

The destroyer isn't living it’s animated.

Hercules's essence/soul inside the suit is though.

But Freezing will not work as the output of the destroyer is far greater than anything the cold gun’s can freeze.

At the very least it's multi-mountain buster, & at its peak planet buster.

What does it's strength have to do with this? Atoms and molecule just stop moving(they technically vibrate through) at absolute zero. Destroyer would not be able to physically move at all regardless of how powerful it is, the destroyer armor has to be beyond physics or have something like the Speed Force which is literally the only reason Flash is still able to move about in Captain Cold's fields.

Robert’s speed-ball effect is enough for him to take hits from Kuurth add in supersonic speed & Wu should never get hurt Robert.

But if Robert does get hurt. Then considering Robert’s degree of immortality & a healing factor comparable to Deadpool, KO is improbable.

Plus Robert will be turning your team into animal. Which should work on Zhen, Wu, Devilman and Goemon. If they some how passed the destroyer.

This is nice and all, but Monochrome just says lol nope to everything except raw power, it's a power that eats other powers. The talismans would be just rocks while Monochrome is active and suppressing them. The speedball field that penance makes wouldn't be a thing, it would just be Wu Geng's Smelting aura fist punching him in his spiky metal mask.

I doubt sniper will survive the first wave (Herc, Caerula, & Robert) But he won't get past Banner’s shields which react at over mach 5.

As I pointed out in our other thread, his bullets can wreck somebody with at least mountain level durability. Those shields can't take those forever and this assuming the shields haven't been taken out by Motoko with the MB.

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#15 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmmm

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#16 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: Finally have the time to make a proper reply.

Motoko has 3 months with it, a Mother Box will treat user as if it really was it's own child. As such no skill is required to use it as seen with Batman, Superman and Steel all using it within seconds, the reason why Batman can't use the one from the scanned I showed earlier is because he's an unloving dick. The Mother Box was doing it on it's own though, it was breaking through Darkseid's jamming unbeknownst to Orion.

This is of course not even taking into consideration the fact that the Mother Box has straight up technopathy(I'm looking for a good scan of this)

Motoko has one month*...◔_◔

From what I gather you’re argument is, every feature should be available so long as a close bond is made with the user of the mother-box.

I’m trying to convey that from what has been shown (in the thread so far) concerning technopathy the mother box hasn't done anything outside of the users capabilities. Even the names listed has feats with tech above Totoko.

Yes the mother-box will protect itself from technological threats such as jamming. But even that took time to learn.

So if you have feats showing the opposite, please enlighten me.

IM was left amazed by a Mother Box when he briefly got one in JLA/Avengers(I no longer own a copy of it, so I'll have to see if I can find any scans from it). He able to do way more than normal from a technology standpoint and IIRC he even managed to beat Flash with the MB's aid.

JLA/Avengers is non canon to marvel.

Like I said for however brief that maybe, though unlike Thor she get's the benefit of having an extremely high level HF.

Hulk also has a healing factor with planetary durability. But when shot by the Destroyer they offered no solace.

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MB will pick up on them before they even teleport, the scan I showed above picked up Darkseid when Orion had no clue he was even there. IM in JLA/Avengers used it to track people that his suit couldn't due to distance. There's also the heart ring which can be used to locate and sense living things.

Those feats you've listed only tracks location, not track teleportation specifically. Your team will know my team is there seeing them with there eyes but you’ve shown no way for them to know my team’s teleportation before hand.

While the blasts are far faster than my team, the armor itself isn't. Motoko could very easily rush it and do another option I just thought of, which is to just Boom Tube it to Apokolips or really wherever. Motoko is telepathically linked to the MB and boom tubes are a commodity amongst the New Gods and apokoliptians

While BFR is allowed it is only within the battlefield and there is nothing to suggest Boom tubes will be opened after the beams are fired.

It's a toon force based sword that can cut through anything even metals supposedly deemed indestructible/uncuttable. He's cut everything from shooting stars while sitting on earth, the moon and as shown in the video the animation even. Think about this too, he cut a tornado in half. No matter how powerful the cut, it shouldn't just stop like it does. The sword is clearly not meant to have any sort of limit as to what it can cut.

.

The first two feats isn’t shown in the video you presented.

Also none of the things listed has durability close to the Destroyer. Thor can one shot a planetoid hitting BRB but his best blows on several occasions fails to scratch the destroyer. Am I to believe Thor held back in all of those occasions?

Side note: The 4 wall braking/ dimensional cutting feat you bring up (not shown) is lost on me. Due to it’s inconsistent & un-quantifiable nature.

Examples.

Hercules can has held up the sky, yet struggles to to pull Manhattan back together.

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Thor and Hercules has punched with the force to demolish worlds (multiple) but but neither has shown anything above planet buster.

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But if we take that for a fact, Herc with half that power is easily overpowered by the destroyer. That would speak volumes for the Destroyers strength & durability. The feats are only two years apart Avengers 100 (1972) Thor 224 (1974).

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As far as I know that's never been stated as a requirement and considering it was holding his soul after an not his physical body it would seem to not matter. Honestly that more just seems like typical GOW stuff with the series constantly having a brutal/gore boner. I'll look into this though to see if theres any examples of him doing it

Now you're arguing game mechanics. So I’m going to go by feats and what is shown.

Wait are you having Herc control it or the destroyer have full control? This will change stuff up depending on which you have in mind.

Herc is capable of controlling the Destroyer.

Herc's essence inside the suit is though.

But the scans didn't show soul stealing or the fodder wouldn't be gasping for air as their bodies rotted.

What does it's strength have to do with this? Atoms and molecule just stop moving(they technically vibrate through) at absolute zero. Destroyer would not be able to physically move at all regardless of how powerful it is, the destroyer armor has to be beyond physics or have something like the Speed Force which is literally the only reason Flash is still able to move about in Captain Cold's fields.

Where did I state strength? Try and read the scan please.

The captions I’m referring to.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

The Destroyer does indeed have enough energy to over power absolute zero.

This is nice and all, but Monochrome just says lol nope to everything except raw power, it's a power that eats other powers. The talismans would be just rocks while Monochrome is active and suppressing them. The speedball field that penance makes wouldn't be a thing, it would just be Wu Geng's Smelting aura fist punching him in his spiky(this word looks really weird) metal mask.

I can buy that for magic but Robert’s powers are connected to science of kinetic energy.

So the talisman’s would be rendered inert if Robert gets close(having no need to). But deactivating robert’s powers is a big claim unsupported.

As I pointed out in out other thread, his bullets can wreck somebody with at least mountain level durability.

I’ve shown the shields standing up to planetary level strength, tanking multiple blows.

My biggest doubt for your counters are by passing the Destroyer's beams. Considering your team has no speed evade or durability to tank them. With that your team hasn't shown any equipment capable of tracking teleportation. So there is no reason they will be aware, until they're being attacked.

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#17 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmmm

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#18 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity said:

Motoko has one month*...◔_◔

pfft...what I said was pretty close, only 3 times as much.

From what I gather you're argument is, every feature should be available so long as a close bond is made with the user of the mother-box.

Yes, because there's never been a restriction placed on anything besides the old models which had their own batteries, whereas all the new models run on the infinite amount of energy that is the source.

I’m trying to convey that from what has been shown (in the thread so far) concerning technopathy the mother box hasn't done anything outside of the users capabilities. Even the names listed has feats with tech above Totoko.

What does the user's capability have to do with this? The MB is 100% and does it's own thing, it even refuses people generally viewed as evil like with Apokoliptians (hence why they use father boxes). It forms a telepathic link with the user and will do everything within it's power to aid them.

Yes the mother-box will protect itself from technological threats such as jamming. But even that took time to learn.

We're also talking about a group/race that regularly is at war with the New Gods. It ended up beat the jammers and then later cutting all power to the place alls the while Orion was fighting.

JLA/Avengers is non canon to marvel.

1. Proof that it's not canon to Marvel?

2. Even if it isn't canon to Marvel it sure is to DC, which means all DC experiences are canon which includes the Mother Boxes. Also non canon in Marvel simply means non 616, which means it's in that cross over verse which is exactly the same just with the inclusion of other publishers characters.

Hulk also has a healing factor with planetary durability. But when shot by the Destroyer they offered no solace.

Hulks HF while top tier is rarely if ever as rapid as the one offered by the MB. Also the blast barely even hit him in the second scan

Those feats you've listed only tracks location, not track teleportation specifically. Your team will know my team is there seeing them with there eyes but you've shown no way for them to know my team’s teleportation before hand.

The heart ring either tracks by emotions or through telepathy, it should have no problem picking up anybody alive on your team.

While BFR is allowed it is only within the battlefield and there is nothing to suggest Boom tubes will be opened after the beams are fired.

@highaccuserCan I BFR the Destroyer armor to another planet or something since it is technically gear not a character?

The first two feats isn’t shown in the video you presented.

Here's the shooting star one

Loading Video...

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and is even called a duck, you know what it probably is. A duck, or in this case a sword which has cut through everything it's gone up against including impossible to cut things, has never been contradicted in canon and has been said to cut through anything. Anyways it seems a bit silly to go further with this considering I don't even plan on using this option.

Also none of the things listed has durability close to the Destroyer. Thor can one shot a planetoid hitting BRB but his best blows on several occasions fails to scratch the destroyer. Am I to believe Thor held back in all of those occasions?

You say that as if these are the limits of Goemon's swords, there just things he has done by merely swinging it not full effort on his part, plus the sword.

Side note: The 4 wall braking/ dimensional cutting feat you bring up (not shown) is lost on me. Due to it’s inconsistent & un-quantifiable nature.

It's not meant to be quantifiable, it's simply a joke the writers made to to truly show it can cut through anything even things not possible to cut.

Examples.

Are you really comparing typical comic one time hyperbole/over exaggeration( like Sentry with the million exploding suns) to something that's been repeatedly claimed and never contradicted(with the exception of ina special which asn't the least bit canon) for over 40 years.

Now you're arguing game mechanics. So I’m going to go by feats and what is shown.

What? Where did I mention anything involving gameplay? I simply noted that the piercing of the skin requirement that you said might have just been GOW to make stuff as brutal as possible, especially for a boss fight.

Herc is capable of controlling the Destroyer.

That's not what I'm questioning though. If Hercules is in control that means he can still me mind controlled, put under an illusion or be effected by empathy.

But the scans didn't show soul stealing or the fodder wouldn't be gasping for air as their bodies rotted.

It does actually effect the soul, It doesn't outright kill or get removed, but it still definitely does affect it when used.

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Where did I state strength? Try and read the scan please.

The captions I’m referring to.

The Destroyer does indeed have enough energy to over power absolute zero.

I read them the first time and was using strength as an interchangeable word with power. Anyways you don't simply outmuscle(again interchanging) Absolute Zero like your saying. The suit cannot move unless it's atoms can, which under Absolute Zero can't besides Vibrate.

I can buy that for magic but Robert’s powers are connected to science of kinetic energy.

So the talisman’s would be rendered inert if Robert gets close(having no need to). But deactivating robert’s powers is a big claim unsupported.

None of the scans I showed had any of the characters using Magic and why does the source of the power matter? Here's what the characters where using

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Here'd magic or well Mantra as It's basically considered in China and amongst Buddhists

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Then there's Smelting Aura and Soul Gear and some other powers which are in no way connected to the other powers.

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Makes no difference what the source of the power is, it works on all of them. Even color which has absolutely nothing to do with magic or anything of the sorts, always vanishes whenever Monochrome is used.

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I’ve shown the shields standing up to planetary level strength, tanking multiple blows.

You didn't show it taking any planetary hits. You only showed Skaar, Rulk(ignoring Loeb stuff like punching Uatu) and Juggernaut whom you felt the need to point out that his punches measure an 8 on the Richter scale which is hilariously below planetary. The Tsar Bomb was a 8.5, which couldn't/can't even blow up a sizable mountable let alone one more durable than normal.

My biggest doubt for your counters are by passing the Destroyer's beams. Considering your team has no speed evade or durability to tank them. With that your team hasn't shown any equipment capable of tracking teleportation. So there is no reason they will be aware, until they're being attacked.

My team starts at the same instance yours does and knows they're in the middle of a fight. I could just say I teleport to your team too, the result would just be us switching starting points.

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#19 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: No BFRing gear except to another part of the watchtower.

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#20 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: Teleporting is allowed, but they just come back in two mins right?

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#21 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: BFR can be used, but only within the battlefield and it isn't a victory.

Oh, OK I see the rule here, well that's fine...my plan still stands. Shadow man can still open a rift into limbo and extend the battlefield while the forcefields and his power over limbo can keep the others out.

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#22 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit:

I'll finish this tomorrow.

Done with your reply?

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#23 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: I intended to post this yesterday but you know comicvine being comivine.

What does the user's capability have to do with this? The MB is 100% and does it's own thing, it even refuses people generally viewed as evil like with Apokoliptians (hence why they use father boxes). It forms a telepathic link with the user and will do everything within it's power to aid them.

We're also talking about a group/race that regularly is at war with the New Gods. It ended up beat the jammers and then later cutting all power to the place alls the while Orion was fighting.

This is good & all but what has the mother box done in technopathy that puts it above my teams tech.

By your own admission the groups are regularly at war & only in this instance have the mother box over come the jamming.

Put Tony Stark in that situation for the given amount of time and he would achieve the same results.

You wounder why I put emphasis on the users capabilities. Well lets look at your scan. Specifically this panel:

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Orion cut the power not the mother box (it directed him). If Orion wasn't cable of completing the task, would the power be on? Yes.

The only task the mother box completes is overcoming jamming tech, which took time to learn. Being non factor in this match because I never stated Banner or Amadeus would hack the mother box. Which means mean previous points still stand.

No need discuss this further until more feats are presented.

1. Proof that it's not canon to Marvel?

2. Even if it isn't canon to Marvel it sure is to DC, which means all DC experiences are canon which includes the Mother Boxes. Also non canon in Marvel simply means non 616, which means it's in that cross over verse which is exactly the same just with the inclusion of other publishers characters.

This is common knowledge the reason crossovers are never permitted in debates.

I understand that crossovers being canon is relevant to your debate. But consider Tony's tech has upgraded significantly with in the decade, nothing will be gained. I've shown that Banner's tech competes with current Ironman.

Hulks HF while top tier is rarely if ever as rapid as the one offered by the MB. Also the blast barely even hit him in the second scan.

Since you brought hulks healing factor into question, I would like to remind you how fast he heals.

Healing factor of Hulk incarnations that are weaker than savage hulk.

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Motoko will be disintegrated faster than she can heal, not only that but the mother box also. I see no reason to press this further.

Can I BFR the Destroyer armor to another planet or something since it is technically gear not a character?

With this not being allowed I assume you run out of counters to the Destroyer.

Here's the shooting star one

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and is even called a duck, you know what it probably is. A duck, or in this case a sword which has cut through everything it's gone up against including impossible to cut things, has never been contradicted in canon and has been said to cut through anything. Anyways it seems a bit silly to go further with this considering I don't even plan on using this option.

You say that as if these are the limits of Goemon's swords, there just things he has done by merely swinging it not full effort on his part, plus the sword.

I only press this point because you stated it would cut the Destroyer. So I assumed you poof to substantiate that claim. But I appears you do not.

Also taken into account that the moon cutting feat never happened. A misinterpretation on your part.

What? Where did I mention anything involving gameplay? I simply noted that the piercing of the skin requirement that you said might have just been GOW to make stuff as brutal as possible, especially for a boss fight.

Game mechanics broader term than game-play. Your argument is the style of the game is the reason we never see the CoH rip out a soul without cutting. Which cannot be proven.

What the video showed was the CoH cutting ripping out a soul. Being that it is a cut-scene I see it as canon.& the intended use of the CoH.

That's not what I'm questioning though. If Hercules is in control that means he can still me mind controlled, put under an illusion or be effected by empathy.

I've shown why that wouldn't work no matter who's in control.

The psychic link must be cut by the body. Herc's body is safe on the other side of the watch tower unknown to your team.

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It does actually effect the soul, It doesn't outright kill or get removed, but it still definitely does affect it when used.

Removing or killing is the desired effect needed. Just affecting will not take down the Destroyer considering it protected by Odin's enhancement.

I read them the first time and was using strength as an interchangeable word with power. Anyways you don't simply outmuscle(again interchanging) Absolute Zero like your saying. The suit cannot move unless it's atoms can, which under Absolute Zero can't besides Vibrate.

But it's not interchangeable. "shimmering bolts of lethal energy---enough raw, living power to shatter a planet!!" Even taken as hyperbole, at the very least it can destroy multiple mountains. Considering it destroyed a mountain with raw power casually while awakening.

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So the cold field won't stop the Destroyer form blasting your team.

None of the scans I showed had any of the characters using Magic and why does the source of the power matter? Here's what the characters where using

Here'd magic or well Mantra as It's basically considered in China and amongst Buddhists

Then there's Smelting Aura and Soul Gear and some other powers which are in no way connected to the other powers.

Makes no difference what the source of the power is, it works on all of them. Even color which has absolutely nothing to do with magic or anything of the sorts, always vanishes whenever Monochrome is used.

The source of the power matters when the concept of neutralizing powers is applied. A genetic neutralizer wouldn't work on Juggernaut receiving his powers form a hell lord.

Form it's description it suppress offensive forces. Now the question is what forces has it suppressed? Well form the powers you showed magic based forces, considering magic governs that verse. Does Robert's powers match any of those powers shown? Nope.

Bio
Bio

You didn't show it taking any planetary hits. You only showed Skaar, Rulk(ignoring Loeb stuff like punching Uatu) and Juggernaut whom you felt the need to point out that his punches measure an 8 on the Richter scale which is hilariously below planetary. The Tsar Bomb was a 8.5, which couldn't/can't even blow up a sizable mountable let alone one more durable than normal.

Having no evidence or counters, I'm going to deem this a failed attempt to low-ball.

In the Juggernaut instant I took the lowest possible consensus. But reconsidering the Juggernaut is stomping on Banner and the shock-waves form his hits are causing earthquakes, that the leftover force the shields are not absorbing.

Further prof the shields integrity is far beyond snipers ability to damage. Insane Banner separated form Hulk has gamma shields un-amped by the old power. It tanks multiple hits form hulk specifically trying to kill Banner.

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This is nice and all, but Monochrome just says lol nope to everything except raw power, it's a power that eats other powers. The talismans would be just rocks while Monochrome is active and suppressing them. The speedball field that penance makes wouldn't be a thing, it would just be Wu Geng's Smelting aura fist punching him in his spiky metal mask.

Already addressed.

My team starts at the same instance yours does and knows they're in the middle of a fight. I could just say I teleport to your team too, the result would just be us switching starting points.

I think you discovered a cop-out. Abandoning the current debate/points to construct a scenario that better suits. It's always counter productive in a debate.

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#27 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity said:

@skit: I intended to post this yesterday but you know comicvine being comivine.

Yeah I wasn't sure what was going on for awhile.

This is good & all but what has the mother box done in technopathy that puts it above my teams tech.

By your own admission the groups are regularly at war & only in this instance have the mother box over come the jamming.

The Jamming was for New God tech and given the commodity of Mother Boxes, they would also be attempted at being jammed yet they could only do so temporarily.

Put Tony Stark in that situation for the given amount of time and he would achieve the same results.

You wonder why I put emphasis on the users capabilities. Well lets look at your scan. Specifically this panel:

Orion cut the power not the mother box (it directed him). If Orion wasn't cable of completing the task, would the power be on? Yes.

It said it directed him. What your saying is basically that a random person is automatically a professional bomb defuser even though they were told which wires to cut.

The only task the mother box completes is overcoming jamming tech, which took time to learn. Being non factor in this match because I never stated Banner or Amadeus would hack the mother box. Which means mean previous points still stand.

Overcoming Apokoliptian technology intended to specifically jam the MB and other New God tech is obviously going to take more time being high level stuff with an exact intention. An analogy would be a geneticist is going to be more effective at working for a cure for Progeria or something of the sorts than a regular doctor because that's what they specialise in.

This is common knowledge the reason crossovers are never permitted in debates.

So why would an official Marvel bio for a 616 character describe a non canon event in such detail.

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I understand that crossovers being canon is relevant to your debate. But consider Tony's tech has upgraded significantly with in the decade, nothing will be gained. I've shown that Banner's tech competes with current Ironman.

Are you saying current IM can react to and beat pre-flashpoint flash? Because that's one of the things that he was capable of doing with the MB.

Since you brought hulks healing factor into question, I would like to remind you how fast he heals.

Healing factor of Hulk incarnations that are weaker than savage hulk.

Motoko will be disintegrated faster than she can heal, not only that but the mother box also. I see no reason to press this further.

Hulk got a flesh wound at worse. You said "Hulk also has a healing factor with planetary durability. But when shot by the Destroyer they offered no solace". I don't get how causing such a minor wounds on a character with a HF = HF's don't matter. Show me something that proves Motoko can't repair/heal especially considering 90% isn't even necessary for a normal Motoko to live/function. Actually she can even come back so long as there's a body to go back to(which through the MB can be made) as seen when she had this happen to her. Watch 21:45 to the obvious part to stop.

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With this not being allowed I assume you run out of counters to the Destroyer.

You even admitted that freezing it in time works and yet I have no options, okay.

I only press this point because you stated it would cut the Destroyer. So I assumed you poof to substantiate that claim. But I appears you do not.

I felt I have, having shown uncuttable things being cut with it and there being no reason not to believe it can't as it clearly was intended to be by the probably dozens of people that have done the series.

Game mechanics broader term than game-play. Your argument is the style of the game is the reason we never see the CoH rip out a soul without cutting. Which cannot be proven.

So you can prove the need to cut the person that the claws are ripping the soul out of then. You made up a requirement, that was never stated anywhere or having anything to say it's true other than it not just outright ripping out the soul of a boss. The one of Hades with which the Claw of Hades where named, that where just in his hands minutes ago, who also happens to be the ruler of all the souls who also happened to have a crazy amount of souls in his body. Also in GOW 2 Hades had a brief appearance, watch 0:40-1:52

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Why bring this up? Because at 1:14 they seem to go right into him. Not hooked into the physical body like when Kratos ripped out Hades. There's no reason to believe there's a requirement of flesh injury first with the claws.

I've shown why that wouldn't work no matter who's in control.

The psychic link must be cut by the body. Herc's body is safe on the other side of the watch tower unknown to your team.

That's not how telepathy or empathy or even illusion powers work though, having to go through the mindless body first makes absolutely no sense at all. It even says spell, which is not the means of the powers.

Removing or killing is the desired effect needed. Just affecting will not take down the Destroyer considering it protected by Odin's enhancement.

It says it would have killed him if he hadn't been protected. IE it kills the body through the soul, not kills the soul itself. Also Zi Yu described it as having his soul being torn despite having it amped considerably. At the bare minimum it's not something that van be merely shrugged off.

But it's not interchangeable. "shimmering bolts of lethal energy---enough raw, living power to shatter a planet!!" Even taken as hyperbole, at the very least it can destroy multiple mountains. Considering it destroyed a mountain with raw power casually while awakening.

So the cold field won't stop the Destroyer form blasting your team.

Being powerful doesn't just make you immune to things automatically. Give me proof to say he can stand up to cold that can make basically everything in existance stop moving.

The source of the power matters when the concept of neutralizing powers is applied. A genetic neutralizer wouldn't work on Juggernaut receiving his powers form a hell lord.

Form it's description it suppress offensive forces. Now the question is what forces has it suppressed? Well form the powers you showed magic based forces, considering magic governs that verse. Does Robert's powers match any of those powers shown? Nope.

It technically doesn't neutralize powers it absorbs them into his body which ends up turning into a sudo black hole. This was his experience when his first used it and couldn't control it.

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This also happens to be the only time he has used Monochrome against magic specifically and even then it as accidently against his own body, destroying a seal that gave him use of fire based magic.

Color is not an offensive power,stats are not offensive powers, life itself is not a offensive power. All the powers I showed where natural abilities. That's like saying Silver Surfer is a mutant even though his powers mainly come from Galactus/power cosmic. Magic doesn't run the verse in the least bit, only 3 or 4 characters really even use it. Even taking into consideration 1 time users or those shown the capability to use it, it only jumps to 5, maybe 6 characters. He's used it to halve the power behind a guy tackling him, To put it in a science standpoint like with Penance's power, he took out half of the kinetic force behind the hit.

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In the Juggernaut instant I took the lowest possible consensus. But reconsidering the Juggernaut is stomping on Banner and the shock-waves form his hits are causing earthquakes, that the leftover force the shields are not absorbing.

Sensui's direct hits did less damage to Yusuke than Sniper could with pebbles and grass while playing around and not taking it seriously. The Air Pressure from Sensui's punch not even aimed at the Maesa was doing this much damage also the results of the shockwaves from Yusuke and Sensui briefly fighting completely destroys it.

To give you an idea of the size
To give you an idea of the size
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and their energy attacks did this in a single blast

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Sensui's shockwaves/air pressure > Tsar bomb > Juggernauts shockwaves

Obviously a direct punch > the power from shock waves, but you get the point.

Further prof the shields integrity is far beyond snipers ability to damage. Insane Banner separated form Hulk has gamma shields un-amped by the old power. It tanks multiple hits form hulk specifically trying to kill Banner.

Both Hulk and Banner noted that the shield wasn't going to last long and the punches were still hurting Banner as seen in the first panel.

I think you discovered a cop-out. Abandoning the current debate/points to construct a scenario that better suits. It's always counter productive in a debate.

I was merely making a point that my team is going after your team as well and isn't going to politely wait for you team to teleport to mine when they're supposed to be killing yours and are(grammer?) starting at the same time.

I'm going to add in the translated scans from the chapter I linked for Wu Geng and add in Snipers feat in the original post for voters.

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#28 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit:

So why would an official Marvel bio for a 616 character describe a non canon event in such detail.

It describes the event but that doesn't make it canon. Thanos the end was mention in marvel comics, and handbooks but it's non canon. So why would I take that handbook as canon with no mention in marvel comics.

Are you saying current IM can react to and beat pre-flashpoint flash? Because that's one of the things that he was capable of doing with the MB.

Is that what I stated? I don't remember could you quote that part for me?

Hulk got a flesh wound at worse. You said "Hulk also has a healing factor with planetary durability. But when shot by the Destroyer they offered no solace". I don't get how causing such a minor wounds on a character with a HF = HF's don't matter. Show me something that proves Motoko can't repair/heal especially considering 90% isn't even necessary for a normal Motoko to live/function. Actually she can even come back so long as there's a body to go back to(which through the MB can be made) as seen when she had this happen to her. Watch 21:45 to the obvious part to stop.

Really blowing this mother box healing factor out of proportion. The Mother-box isn't even fast at healing as made out to be.

Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman gets his arm snapped, then form page 31 to page 41 Superman arm isn't healed only bond.

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And if you read all of the pages posted, Superman mentions multiple wound he's taken.

If it's not a problem I would like to point out his page specially. Where superman states " Need time to recover or I'm don for!"

And since you are using multiple appearances of the mother box this is valid showing.

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Also I've never stated Motoko can't heal I've shown a healing factor being over worked by the Destroyers beam. A simple blast achieved much. There is also the fact that the mother box can be over worked also destroyed.

You even admitted that freezing it in time works and yet I have no options, okay.

So you admit the Destroyer's beams are faster than your team. Plus the fact that your team has no knowledge of my team's teleport, so what will your team accomplish while being blasted.

I felt I have, having shown uncuttable things being cut with it and there being no reason not to believe it can't as it clearly was intended to be by the probably dozens of people that have done the series.

The best feat the sword has shown is cutting a meteorite from a distance. Are you implying a meteorite cannot be cut? So the cut any thing claim are implied feats or no limit fallacies. But all without proof.

So you can prove the need to cut the person that the claws are ripping the soul out of then. You made up a requirement, that was never stated anywhere or having anything to say it's true other than it not just outright ripping out the soul of a boss. The one of Hades with which the Claw of Hades where named, that where just in his hands minutes ago, who also happens to be the ruler of all the souls who also happened to have a crazy amount of souls in his body. Also in GOW 2 Hades had a brief appearance, watch 0:40-1:52

Why bring this up? Because at 1:14 they seem to go right into him. Not hooked into the physical body like when Kratos ripped out Hades. There's no reason to believe there's a requirement of flesh injury first with the claws.

Why do you direct that stipulation at me as if I made it up?

My quotes for a reminder.

"From the video show CoH has to cut to rip out a soul. The CoH will break before they scratch the Destroyer Armor."

"So I’m going to go by feats and what is shown."

You supply the evidence that clearly supported my reasoning. You haven shown any conflicting evidence that is indisputable proof against my reasoning.

In the current video shown it hooks into the Titans chest with Hades physically pulling him down.

That's not how telepathy or empathy or even illusion powers work though, having to go through the mindless body first makes absolutely no sense at all. It even says spell, which is not the means of the powers.

That is the way Odin accomplices telepathy which works in the same fashion and far above anything shown in this match.

Journey into mystery 104 (1964) Odin preforms this telepathic feat.

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But in Thor Annual 2 (1966) (correct the issue if I'm wrong) Odin specifically manipulates Loki's's body.

As far as I'm able to remember Odin created the Destroyer. But some how Zhen telepathy should do far more.

It says it would have killed him if he hadn't been protected. IE it kills the body through the soul, not kills the soul itself. Also Zi Yu described it as having his soul being torn despite having it amped considerably. At the bare minimum it's not something that van be merely shrugged off.

That's the opposite of how a I interpreted it.

Going by the narration he was with held form instant death by Soul Power not forced to it.

"Instead of warmth, this light carried only death and despair. The only thing that came after was pain. Pain of having every bone and vessel in his body crushed one after another."

This captions the physical aspect of the attack.

"Protected by Soul Power, he he didn't lose his life right there and then."

With the first time the soul being mentioned is as a force of protection. The destroyer is enhanced by Odin so it's defiantly protected.

Before I was giving the benefit of my doubt. But upon review I'm only convince high level magic will remove or affect the soul with in the Destroyer.

Only high level magic has ever accomplished removing the soul & that is consistent showings.

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Being powerful doesn't just make you immune to things automatically. Give me proof to say he can stand up to cold that can make basically everything in existance stop moving.

That's not even remotely true. Flash is only slowed by could fields. Plus the could field hasn't stopped a force that will bust mountains. Complete exaggeration on your part.

Also there is no reason Sniper could activate a cold field under the circumstances.

It technically doesn't neutralize powers it absorbs them into his body which ends up turning into a sudo black hole. This was his experience when his first used it and couldn't control it.

The shows he couldn't control it being far to much. So even if monochrome is taken into account Robert is capable at over load it.

Robert unleashing energy is enough to sent a Worthy's hammer back(after it had been considerably slowed) with enough force to sen him flying.

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Even World Mind instructs Richard to evade the amount of force.

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This also happens to be the only time he has used Monochrome against magic specifically and even then it as accidently against his own body, destroying a seal that gave him use of fire based magic.

Color is not an offensive power,stats are not offensive powers, life itself is not a offensive power. All the powers I showed where natural abilities. That's like saying Silver Surfer is a mutant even though his powers mainly come from Galactus/power cosmic. Magic doesn't run the verse in the least bit, only 3 or 4 characters really even use it. Even taking into consideration 1 time users or those shown the capability to use it, it only jumps to 5, maybe 6 characters. He's used it to halve the power behind a guy tackling him, To put it in a science standpoint like with Penance's power, he took out half of the kinetic force behind the hit.

The reason it works on color is stated with in your scan "lose it's color and radiance, signifying the withering of vitality." No reason to emphasizes that.

Stats isn't offensive but if when faced with a power that drains/suppress or removes magic the uses of stats becomes irrelevant. Being that stats can be increased through soul power or given through divine means (sated in your scans). But I'll let this go seeing as you provided reasonable proof for it's uses against Robert. But given its showing would still fail. (shown above)

Sensui's direct hits did less damage to Yusuke than Sniper could with pebbles and grass while playing around and not taking it seriously. The Air Pressure from Sensui's punch not even aimed at the Maesa was doing this much damage also the results of the shockwaves from Yusuke and Sensui briefly fighting completely destroys it.

Sensui's shockwaves/air pressure > Tsar bomb > Juggernauts shockwaves

Obviously a direct punch > the power from shock waves, but you get the point.

This isn't even entirely true barring "your" calculations. The Juggernaut beat Sakaar in strength when Sakaar was being enhanced with the old power.

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Also the X-Men seen Juggernaut as a threat so he was close to or at standard levels of power.

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Banner also stated Sakaar needed practice (making the Juggernaut mad so he would come).

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Specifically choosing someone capable of fighting an angry Hulk. (we've seen that before.)

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But I do commend you for catching on and adding evidence.

Both Hulk and Banner noted that the shield wasn't going to last long and the punches were still hurting Banner as seen in the first panel.

Yes that's stated but the context of it I have provided. That is an insane Banner with only gamma powered shields without Old power to amp it or power it. In this scenarios a sane Banner has both.

I was merely making a point that my team is going after your team as well and isn't going to politely wait for you team to teleport to mine when they're supposed to be killing yours and are(grammer?) starting at the same time.

This only add to my previous point. Your team isn't waiting for my team to approach nor expecting the way my team approaches. So your team will be unaware. My team's location is know to them but that is all they would know until they're under fire with no way to escape.

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#29 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Going to be a bit of a delay since my laptop died on me when I was working on a response. I might not be able to get one up tonight.

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#31 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit said:

@mr_ingenuity If it is as @lukehero says, would you please allows us either an additional day or each a reply?

I really can't. Not even for the people who had nothing but openers.

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#34 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: So is today the final day to post, or no more and votes open now?

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#35 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: no more posts. I suggest you tag some people.

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#36 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @skit: @highaccuser: Mr. Ingenuity wins for me. Skit had no real answer for the awesome power of the Destroyer. Ing actually taught me a lot about the Destroyer like the fact it is made of metal harder than Adamatium and how fast the Destroyer's beam is. Also Skit's plan really was Motherbox heavy in my mind and Mr. Ing successful challenged it.

This was the best debate of the First Round and it was very close. Mr. Ing team wins 5.1/10

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#37 Edited by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: @lukehero: @jacthripper@veitha@sionistheboss@ssj_god@diredrill@beatboks1@pr0metheus@mikep12@omgomgwtfwtf@deathhero61@thetruebarryallen@sovereign91001@darkraiden @

People, Viners, Geists lend me your votes

@mr_ingenuity I'm going to for the sake of any of voters lacking of knowledge on the Skaar and wwh vs juggernaut fights, show the end of both of those fights and the next scan in the skaar one.

Skaar get's right up, fights for a bit then knocks juggernaut right off the planet.

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After Skaar fights him for awhile(one the winning I should note), he decides to give juggernaut a free trip to space.

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WWH is more concerned about the time it would take him to beat Juggernaut.

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#38 Edited by Jacthripper (14889 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7513 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser

I think you should really remove the Motherbox from the equipment roster. It's really just a plot device. It does whatever is convenient for the plot.

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#40 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: Your scans are out of context. Sakaar figures out that if he stops Juggernaut form gaining any momentum he can BFR Juggernaut by sending him in the opposite direction.

Here uses these scans.

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Try not to confuse the voters.

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#41 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: @omgomgwtfwtf:

If we are going to go there with the "Plot Device" then I guess the staff of one makes you invincible with some foreign languages & some magic training , Tactigon makes you invincible, and I could probably make a case for a few other items on the list.

We are going by shown feats, not speculation and plot. Motherbox has been shown to be overtaxed, it's getting overhyped. That's a strong reason I voted for Mr. Ingenuity, he even showed the fact that Motherbox & Superman together couldn't beat Doomsday.

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#42 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7513 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero:

Fair enough. Though in defense of the Staff of One, it can effectively warp reality to a certain degree, but hasn't shown anything on the level of the Motherbox. The Staff's abilities were negated by Arcade during Avenger's Arena. I can't comment on the Tactigon since I haven't read the comics pertaining to it.

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#43 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: @omgomgwtfwtf: as lukehero said, the mother ox was overtaxed by doomsday. I haven't seen it as too much of a deal before. The mother box stays.

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#44 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: I know I was just wanted to show the fact that the fight wasn't just Juggernaut beating on Skaar which basically only happened in those two page you showed and even then Skaar was to some degree faking it to get a free shot in.

@lukehero If you don't mind me asking, why do you feel my plan was really MB heavy? Mind you the only thing through out this I planned on doing with it was hacking and at best a distraction for the destroyer, but that's it. Mr Ing brought it up more than I did for plans I said I wasn't even using. Which in retrospect basically describes this entire debate, kind of making the whole thing pointless now that I think about it/

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#46 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: I'm on mobile right now, I'll explain when I get back

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#47 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit said:

@mr_ingenuity: I know I was just wanted to show the fact that the fight wasn't just Juggernaut beating on Skaar which basically only happened in those two page you showed and even then Skaar was to some degree faking it to get a free shot in.

Sakaar wasn't faking he changed to a child because Sakaar knew Juggernaut would hit him. Re-read Juggernauts statement.

"Sonofa... Banner you're a sicker piece of work than I ever--"

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#48 Posted by Skit (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: He was angry at banner because he wasn't aware how old Skaar really was. Also how does Juggernaut's statement's prove that Skaar wasn't faking? He was clearly getting tricked as seen with Skaar going from "Oh please don't hit me, I am but a child" to grinning like an idiot and punching in a few panels, taking advantage of Juggernaut's lack of locomotion.

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#49 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14673 posts) - - Show Bio

@skit: Juggernaut was about to KO Sakaar. His statements show he stopped long enough for Sakaar to recover & attack.

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#50 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @skit: You were going to try to stalemate the destroyer with MB in your original plan. I would say that's pretty mother box heavy. Even though you said it may be brief, that's still a huge feat that you never proved. Also most of Motoko's production and productivity in this fight was going to come from MB, in fact only two items she has is Motoko Kusangi (Mother Box, Adamantine ammo). Also I never bout into your initial statements that MB was going to put Motoko on a superman level. Superman is a planet buster. MB is not going to allow you to become planetary level.

So how does all this apply to Motoko well the most obvious is that the MB can create Superman+ level stuff easily and it doesn't take much imagination as to what it can do for somebody who's already 90% technology

Yeah, you never showed Motherbox being on a Superman+ level.