Street Level Armory Toruney: Darkraiden vs TTBA

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Sy8000

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Teams:

@thetruebarryallen

  • Deadshot : Captain Cold's Cold Gun + 5 Gold Grenades // Third Arm Sash // Helmet of Jong // Mirror Master's Armor // Shard of Lightning // 5 Plasmids [ Telekinesis | Winter Blast | Gravity Well | Hypnotize | Security Command ] // 1 Ring of the Mandarin [ Disintegration Beam ]
  • Deathstroke : Khaji-Da the Blue Scarab // Ebony Blade
  • Ditto : 3 Rings of the Mandarin [ Vortex Beam | Flame Blast | Impact Beam ]
  • Lady Shiva : Witchblade // Sapphire Dragon // Emperor Scorpion // Heart of Jong // Doctor Doom's Armor
  • Mewtwo : 6 Rings of the Mandarin [ Mento Intesifier | White Light | Black Light | Matter Rearranger | Electro Blast | Ice Blast ]
  • Spider-Man : Ben Riley's Web Shooters // 12 Talismans
  • Winter Soldier : Adamantium Ammunition
  • Wolverine : Shard of Lightning // Golden Tiger Claws // 1 Dose of Pym Particles // Mario Star // Shroud of Shadows // Reversing Mirror

@darkraiden:

Black Panther(Doctor Dooms armor, Rooster Tailsman, Dragon Tailsman, Urn of Olympus,Fountain of Hui, Emperor Scorpion, Shard of Lightning, eagle scope, Claw of Horus)

Static shock(Black Panthers gear, Pig tailsman, Dog tailsman, Head of Euryale, Kree Moonstone)

Blade(vibranium suit and sword, Ebony Blade, Fancy feet, sands of time, Wushun Geyser, Ox tailsman)

New 52 Mr. Terrific (Worldmind, Horse Tailsman, Rat tailsman, Monkey tailsman, Crystal Glasses,)

Black Dynamite(composite) (Crimson gem of Cyttorak, Rabbit tailsman, Oath stone of Orkos, Adamantine Ammunition)

Afro Samurai(New 52 Deathstoke's gear, Battle Computer, Snake tailsman, Ebony Blade)

For those wondering why these characters have completely abnormal gear, that is the fun part of this tourney. Participants were allowed to select gear to give to their characters.

Rules:

  1. No prep, except ONE MONTH training in the use of all weapons.
  2. Teamwork is a factor. Your team won't fight itself, but it won't always work together perfectly either.
  3. Characters will only know about other characters from canon encounters.
  4. No telefrag.
  5. No PIS or Plot powers.
  6. No time travel
  7. Intangibility only lasts for 30 seconds and ther's a 30 second gap between usage.
  8. Standard Gear.
  9. Personal insults will lead to the insulter getting banned.
  10. I ref matches.
  11. No lowballing or highballing.

Battlefield:

Avengers tower.

Iron man's armory is mid way up the tower. It contains every armor he's ever made of used. The tower is indestructable.

@darkraiden's team will start at sentry's watchtower(the top part), and @thetruebarryallen's team will start at ground floor.

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mickey-mouse

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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mickey-mouse

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DarkRaiden

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@thetruebarryallen:

I'll go first sure.

@highaccuser:

My gear (some was left out):

Black Panther(Doctor Dooms armor, Rooster Tailsman, Dragon Tailsman, Urn of Olympus,Fountain of Hui, Emperor Scorpion, Shard of Lightning, Eagle Scope, Claw of Horus, Scourge of Erynis)

Static shock(Black Panthers gear, Pig tailsman, Dog tailsman, Kree Moonstone, Shard of Lightnng)

Blade(vibranium suit, Ebony Blade, Fancy feet, Crystal Glasses, Wushun Geyser, Ox tailsman)

New 52 Mr. Terrific (Worldmind, Horse Tailsman, Rat tailsman, Monkey tailsman, Crystal Glasses, Reversing Mirror)

Black Dynamite(composite) (Crimson gem of Cyttorak, Rabbit tailsman, Oath stone of Orkos, Adamantine Ammunition, Battle Computer, Adamantium Sword (from last round), Vibranium Sword (from last round)

Afro Samurai(New 52 Deathstoke's gear, Battle Computer, Snake tailsman, Ebony Blade, Nth metal Belt and Katana)

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DarkRaiden

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#6  Edited By DarkRaiden

@thetruebarryallen:

OK, first thing's first, I'll post what is basically a scan dump of my team and their capabilities:

T-Spheres: Forcefields, hitting intangible guy, gravity well, lightning, invisible to technology.

Dimensional Portals, holograms, prevent mind control, white noise, magnetism.

Mr. Terrific:

Crystal Glasses:

7:55-8:15 shows pre-cog

8:40-9:24 again

10:17-10:40 far future(though skewed by the reversing mirror)

12:38-12:45

13:47-13:50 (true precog)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up0JrsCO-Gc

Worldmind:

Putting Drax to sleep, dodging him with extreme speed and blasting him, gravity field, a stargate, lobotomizes ego with a blast.

Energy absorbance and wavelength determining, FTL flight speed, and more speed

That entire sequence done in 1.86 seconds and they note it could be done in .2. Also note how they use gravity to make people weigh more than the Hoover Dam.

Static: Magnetism and other powers:

Shows that he can also be invisible to tech, can do a nifty electron brush off attack, can also attack intangible people, and can put people to sleep. He can also make awesome shields and other stuff, if you need to see that, let me know.

Shard of Lightning:

3:17-3:26 speed of light

7:20-7:21 teleport

9:44-9:48, teleporting items

10:16-10:50, super speed

11:23 teleport

11:42-11:52, take items, do super speed stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIfX9lgFszQ

Blade: Speed and other things:

Durability:

Tanks giant explosions and hellfire

Healing:

Ebony Blade keeps him alive:

No Caption Provided

Also seen here: http://marvel.wikia.com/Ebony_Blade and http://www.comicvine.com/ebony-blade/4055-46939/ under powers and abilities.

Black Panther:

Cloaking:

Doom's armor: Absorption

Absorbs Cosmic power from Cosmic Hulk, Franklin Richards, even absorbs Nightmare

Doom's Armor: Forcefield:

Disrupts machines/Vision's phasing, tanks a blast that KO'd Galactus, tanked a shot from the Infinity Gauntlet, stated to be stronger than Invisible Woman's forcefields that have outright tanked and trumped Celestials.

Doom's Armor: Durability:

Tanks a blast from a Watcher (also his own blast takes out the Watcher), tanks Storm's lightning, and a hit from Sentry

Tanks Cyclops's blast, Mjolnir, more Storm's lightning, and a Nova from Torch.

Doom's Armor: Gadgets:

Brain Scrambler, Refrigeration units, Hypnotism (twice), teleporter

Molecular Expander, Neural Disruptor, Wind Vortex, Offensive Forcefields Hulk can't break, Sleeping Gas

Electric Paralyzer (works on Thor) 500,000 Megavolts, Freezing again, and transition into his beams/blasts hurting Blastaar and Namor.

Doom's Armor: Beams:

Taking out Adam Warlock twice, oneshotting Ironman, and showing that he can mess up other people's teleporting.

Again with the teleporting, also knuckle missiles that took out torch.

------------------------------------

Scourge of Erynis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANaI58y6pnc

Aka a vortex that sucks you in and keeps going (since I have infinite magic and can keep repeating it). Much like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHRkTV5KBXI

or:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYP4oHXY-tY

No Caption Provided

Claw of Horus, oneshotting Superman

Black Dynamite:

dojo fight:

:23-:30 speed feat, :35-:39 same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNEoP7TuEu8

-----------------------------------

nunchaku fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_BCfTUTEyg

------------------------------

9:00-9:29 More kung fu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaETGwyIwo

----------------------

takes car crash:

:28-:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmnmyczZOWY

---------------------

survives rocket explosion:

2:24-2:27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFlgUUjQKlE

-----------------------------

dodges shuriken: 7:24

pimp slap 8:05-8:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uUDMR_-tUk&list=TLErtrgpxmcTZrdUCVLBM2xQotzdsK9Bvy

------------------------------

take eyes out: 7:30-8:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxqPszf_CxE

------------------------

more kung fu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBkUIlXltkQ

-----------------------

snowballs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5PaSX4SRmM

-------------------

:41-:50 Jumps onto helicopter, takes out pilot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840z57sGCyU

--------------------------------------

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/black-dynamite-episode-8-honky-kong-or-white-apes-cant-hump

8:00 honky kong breaks chains, 9:00 HK is bulletproof, 10:00 HK tanks airplane bullets, 10:37-11:00 BD takes beast head on, 15:16 BD headshot giant spider, 20:23 BD kicks monkey down

----------------------------------------

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/black-dynamite-episode-7-apocalypse-this-or-for-the-pity-of-fools

4:37-5:00 kicks ass, smells trouble, 12:05-12:11outruns machine gunfire, 18:50-19:10 tanks grenade explosion

-------------------------

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/black-dynamite-episode-5-panic-on-the-players-ball-express-or-thats-influenza-sucka

18:35-18:40, crawl under train, when sick with flu, 19:45-20:10, sword skills vs. robots

--------------

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/black-dynamite-episode-4-a-crisis-at-christmas-or-the-dark-side-of-the-dark-side-of-the-moon

5:42-5:50, punches holes in people, decapitates people, cuts guy in half, 11:44-11:50, survives rocket explosion, 14:11, 15:00-15:11, overpowers chimp, 18:50-19:05, chimp whoops ass,

19:21-19:24 throws moonstone, 21:05-21:08, moonstone hits, 8:05-8:10 one hand push ups, 8:24-8:27, outruns OJ Simpson backwards

---------------------------------

http://www.watchcartoononline.com/black-dynamite-episode-3-taxes-and-death-or-get-him-to-the-sunset-strip

18:35-18:55, fighting and dodging and strength, 10:40-11:22, jump roping for 2 weeks straight, and even with one hand

----------------------------

Crimson Gem of Cyttorak:

Durability: Completely immune to physical harm.

Tanks Mjolnir like nothing. Even when his enchantment is canceled, he still goes toe to toe with Thor. Tanks Godblast (that took out Galactus btw), tanks force of small planet with a smile.

Strength:

Thunderclap KO's the X-Men, walking through attacks, punching through Iceman's attacks, ground smash causes giant earthquake, a depowered Juggernaut pushes back WWHulk

Other:

Still fighting as a skeleton after being blasted by something that apparently rips fabric of time or w/e, hits intangible beings, and can't be frozen.

Rabbit Talisman:

5:38-5:40:

6:30-6:36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPcPVTS7Oro

Afro Samurai:

Speed, strength, skill, etc:

cuts rpg in half, tanks following explosion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIdJ0g8BKg

-----------------------------------

1:20, cutting through steel motorcycle

2:17-2:27, dodges laser fire, cuts off arm

2:33-3:00 durability and speed

3:25-3:30, strength

3:47-3:55 durability

4:10-4:14

5:00-5:05, eye gouge and strength

5:28-5:33 cutting power

6:18-6:20, decapitating kick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jCdNtqtx91Q

-----------------------------

0:00-1:15 dodging

1:20-1:28, speed and strength and skill

1:54-2:20, skill, speed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-VVFJQSbr_g

------------------------

2:56-3:02, blocks and tanks rocket fist

3:13-3:16, speed of robot

3:37 blocks laser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ioqXLeOggRU#t=212

------------------------------------

1:05-1:11, unsheathes sword and blocks bullet

1:25-2:00, kicks ass

2:00-2:04, kills guy with sheathe in throat

2:07-2:08, cuts guy in half vertical

2:30-2:36, decapitations, cutting guys in half horizontal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKMFcZ4HzgY&feature=player_embedded

-----------------

blocking bullets and dodging them :20-:40

3:23-3:27 blocking crossbow arrows

3:40-4:00 dodges crossbow arrows and rockets and tanks rocket explosion

4:00-4:25, dodges arrows mid air and stabs guy in head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfAouX4y3d0

---------------------

2:45-2:55, dodging lasers, attacks, mid air

3:30-3:35, survives huge fall

5:30-5:35, kicked through rocks, no damage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Yc3rW9sbE

---------------------------------

:55-1:05, dodges bullet, cuts guy's arm off, killing him

http://www.afrosamurai.com/videos.aspx?v=9

-----------------------------------

beats armed men, unarmed, not using swords:

http://www.afrosamurai.com/videos.aspx?v=2

----------------------------

:26-:40, blocking, cutting, dodging bullets

3:43-3:46, cuts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij7TTI7onZY

------------------------------------

Not sure if nth metal is pre or new 52 so....post stuff for both?

new 52 nth metal, amplifying strength and abilities, tanking blasts head up, cuts healing quickly, taking hits from Wonder Woman, and it's anti-magic

Showing the healing factor new 52 nth metal gives (heals a cut in seconds and even a heart wound)

New 52 Deathstroke's armor (which is Nth metal+ Afro has it anyways) tanking giant explosions, even a submarine exploding and falling on him.

Pre-52 Nth metal disrupting metal, controls the fundamental forces of the universe, provides accelerated healing (in statements and notice the wound heal seconds after the knife is pulled out), lets Hawkman see for miles, give him strength, etc.

And of course, I'm pretty sure this is Pre-52 allowing Hawkman to take an absolute ass whooping from Black Adam and live from it.

------------------------

Battle Computer stuff, sees your every move before you do it, runs through every battle scenario.

I put it here because Afro originally had it, even though Black Dynamite also has it now.

So anyways, the main thing/strategy is this.

1. I'm sure we can all agree that Mr. Terrific is the fastest on the draw here with the Worldmind making him into Nova/Nova Prime+his own pretty good reflexes (which are obviously better than base human Richard Rider's was).

2. Terrific will use his Lightspeed/near lightspeed reactions to quickly activate the Shard of Lightning (Black Panther's) in a nanosecond/close to a nanosecond/picosecond, w/e. This puts normal humans at lightspeed and as shown in the video, allows at least 10 'seconds' of real time movement before anything happens in the non-shard-of-lightning world (nothing that was falling mid air even moved a cm).

3. The scans of the Nova Corp vs. the Serpent Society show just how much they can accomplish in just 1.86 seconds (claimed to be able to do it in .2 with no goofing around), so Terrific has LOTS of time inside of his lightspeed bubble that the Shard of Lightning provides him. Terrific will use this time, taking the Emperor Scorpion from BP, and fly over to your team and retrieve all your gear (SGW with Emperor Scorpion, the rest manually and with gravity). He knows exactly where you are and what you have and what you plan to do with it thanks to the Crystal Glasses, so this will be no problem. This won't even take 1 'second' of his 10 'seconds' of SoL (Shard of Lightning) time, and will allow him to then put your team down with punches, blasts, w/e. BP will teleport to your team's location and blast them with Doom's blasts that have hurt planet durability people, and/or hit you with any of the various tech from Doom's armor and of course some nice shots from the Claw of Horus (hits with the force of a planet, KO'd Superman).

4. For good measure, He also opens up as many Scourge of Erynis's as he can on top of your team, and leaves back to our starting point. Terrific does the same after opening up a stargate to the sun or whatnot. When that period ends, next on the draw should be Static, tbh since he already has machine gun bullet+ reaction speeds and is now amped by the Kree Moonstone which allows Moonstone to move in flashes of light and fast enough to keep up with a holding back Nova. Static gets the rest of everyone on my team involved and activates the SoL, just as Terrific's SoL session is ending.

5. Static reaches your team and puts everyone to sleep with his powers (if there's anything left. There probably won't be but still), Blade can chop them up and/or make them forget about even having powers, items, being in a fight etc. with the Wushun Geyser, Afro can chop them up, Black Dynamite can chop them up and pound their face in with Juggernaut++ strength.

6. Overall we win before your team can breathe, think, or react.

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Sy8000

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@darkraiden: the worldmid doesn't give you the nova force as it doesn't exist anymore. You'd only get Sam Alexander's portion. I only really included it for the databases, so I thought that's why you gave it to terrific of all people.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: the worldmid doesn't give you the nova force as it doesn't exist anymore. You'd only get Sam Alexander's portion. I only really included it for the databases, so I thought that's why you gave it to terrific of all people.

Probably should've said something in my last battle with Veitha though. I mean....I thought it gave the nova force due to....well comicvine saying it does.

http://www.comicvine.com/worldmind/4005-51594/

Abilities

The Worldmind contains and controls the Nova Force, the cosmic energy that provides the Nova Corps and its members with extraordinary abilities. Those abilities consist of the ability of flight, super strength and a connection to the Worldmind itself. Those who are higher ranked in the Nova corps can tap into more powers such as the ability to open stargates, energy blasts and the release of a brief but devastating electromagnetic burst. Worldmind also provides logistical support for the Nova Corps.

So to clarify, it doesn't give FULL Nova Force? Or does it give me Nova Force at a normal Nova's level? I can't tell since you said I get Sam Alexander's portion.....

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Sy8000

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@darkraiden: If let you have the full nova force then worldmind would need to be a high tier item, which it isn't.

Besides, the nova force is trapped in the cancerverse anyhow.

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those_eyes

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#10  Edited By those_eyes

@thetruebarryallen

  • Ditto :3 Rings of the Mandarin [ Vortex Beam | Flame Blast | Impact Beam ]

  • Mewtwo : 6 Rings of the Mandarin [ Mento Intesifier | White Light | Black Light | Matter Rearranger | Electro Blast | Ice Blast ]

No Caption Provided

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: If let you have the full nova force then worldmind would need to be a high tier item, which it isn't.

Besides, the nova force is trapped in the cancerverse anyhow.

So how much do I have? None? As much as a normal Nova? I just need to know the limits.

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mickey-mouse

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@highaccuser:

@those_eyes: Right. These powerhouse teams though. It's gonna be a slug fest.

@darkraiden: Well, I am glad I didn't wast my points on that. I too thought it was gonna go all full nova. I guess it's what sam level?

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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@lukehero:

The Xandarian Worldmind never gave anyone the entirety of the Nova Force. It was basically the computer that all the Nova Corps members used. It contains the collective intelligence of all previous Nova Corps members and the people of Xandar.

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mickey-mouse

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@omgomgwtfwtf: Ahhh. Man I would have felt real stupid if I tried to make that argument in the battle thread. Thanks.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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I'll just wait until this Nova situation is all sorted out.

@thetruebarryallen

  • Ditto :3 Rings of the Mandarin [ Vortex Beam | Flame Blast | Impact Beam ]

  • Mewtwo : 6 Rings of the Mandarin [ Mento Intesifier | White Light | Black Light | Matter Rearranger | Electro Blast | Ice Blast ]

No Caption Provided

Hehehehehe - just wait until you see what happens with those two.

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Sy8000

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@darkraiden: you'll get SAMs powers and that's it.

You know you have extensive knowledge on the marvel characters now right? I think you can use that.

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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@lukehero:

The helmet is what gives you the power of the Nova Force and access to the Xandarian Worldmind. Just think of the Worldmind as Jarvis from the Iron Man movies.

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mickey-mouse

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden: you'll get SAMs powers and that's it.

You know you have extensive knowledge on the marvel characters now right? I think you can use that.

Cool. I mean..Panther had that too but....Sam's the same level as a rookie/normal nova right?

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Sy8000

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@darkraiden: you'll get SAMs powers and that's it.

You know you have extensive knowledge on the marvel characters now right? I think you can use that.

Cool. I mean..Panther had that too but....Sam's the same level as a rookie/normal nova right?

I don't know. Look for yourself.

If it helps, NWO used him in a CAV against ultimate iron man, who's a multi thousand tonner.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@darkraiden: you'll get SAMs powers and that's it.

You know you have extensive knowledge on the marvel characters now right? I think you can use that.

Cool. I mean..Panther had that too but....Sam's the same level as a rookie/normal nova right?

I don't know. Look for yourself.

If it helps, NWO used him in a CAV against ultimate iron man, who's a multi thousand tonner.

yeah that CAV has nothing in it. After further review though, yeah he's has as much as normal Nova so all feats should apply.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@darkraiden: Oh dear - I do apologize that it's taken me this long to respond to your comment. I actually forgot that I hadn't responded yet, hopefully I'm not too late & this tournament is still, indeed, going on.

Meet the Team

Not Pictured [ Ditto ]

  1. Deadshot - Incredibly good at shooting things
  2. Deathstroke - Incredibly good at shooting things, stabbing things, planning things, and killing things.
  3. Ditto - Incredibly good at becoming an exact replica of other things.
  4. Doctor Doom - Incredibly good at being Doctor Doom
  5. Lady Shiva - Incredibly good at killing things with only her hands.
  6. Mewtwo - Incredibly good at using telepathy and telekinesis on things.
  7. Spiderman - Incredibly good at replicating the abilities of a spider & being really snarky/sarcastic.
  8. Winter Soldier - Incredibly good at being a brainwashed spy for the Russians, also good at killing things.
  9. Wolverine - Incredibly good at being the best at what he does and what he does isn't pretty.

My team is made up of all well known characters on CV - I don't see the need to delve into anything about them unless I need to reference it later for this debate, in which case I will do so when and if the time comes.

Responses & Thoughts on your Initial Attack

Alright - before I delve into what my team is doing I'll respond to your initial points.

I may bring things up here & elaborate on them further on in my posts - but this is just to make sure I address everything you've said thus far.

I'm sure we can all agree that Mr. Terrific is the fastest on the draw here with the Worldmind making him into Nova/Nova Prime+his own pretty good reflexes (which are obviously better than base human Richard Rider's was).

Well - it appears as if we've discussed this already as the Worldmind will grant him the stats of Sam Alexander as Nova.

Now I personally don't know if this is actually as powerful as Richard Rider but I know it won't be as powerful as Nova Prime so any scans you used of Nova Prime won't really be applicable to this battle.

However - he's still baseline the fastest here when it comes to physical movement. Thankfully he isn't the fastest thinker here - that goes to the powerful Psychic Pokemon known as Mewtwo who resides on my team.

Terrific will use his Lightspeed/near lightspeed reactions to quickly activate the Shard of Lightning (Black Panther's) in a nanosecond/close to a nanosecond/picosecond, w/e. This puts normal humans at lightspeed and as shown in the video, allows at least 10 'seconds' of real time movement before anything happens in the non-shard-of-lightning world (nothing that was falling mid air even moved a cm).

Ah yes the SOL [ Shard of Lightning ] - thankfully we've both got the SOL on our teams, heck I've actually got two!

So we'll both be reaping the benefits of light speed movement - so truly it appears as if a blitz is out of the picture - unless you've got some sort of anti blitz technology such as a Cold Gun or something.

The scans of the Nova Corp vs. the Serpent Society show just how much they can accomplish in just 1.86 seconds (claimed to be able to do it in .2 with no goofing around), so Terrific has LOTS of time inside of his lightspeed bubble that the Shard of Lightning provides him. Terrific will use this time, taking the Emperor Scorpion from BP, and fly over to your team and retrieve all your gear (SGW with Emperor Scorpion, the rest manually and with gravity). He knows exactly where you are and what you have and what you plan to do with it thanks to the Crystal Glasses, so this will be no problem. This won't even take 1 'second' of his 10 'seconds' of SoL (Shard of Lightning) time, and will allow him to then put your team down with punches, blasts, w/e. BP will teleport to your team's location and blast them with Doom's blasts that have hurt planet durability people, and/or hit you with any of the various tech from Doom's armor and of course some nice shots from the Claw of Horus (hits with the force of a planet, KO'd Superman).

The Nova Corps are fast - so Mister Terrific will indeed be moving pretty quickly I will not deny that.

However; the time it takes for him to locate my team & engage them in combat will be enough time for my team to prepare our initial defenses for this battle - even if we don't have a way of seeing the future we still have some general defensive procedures to take before we engage.

Terrific won't be moving any faster with the SOL than anyone else would - it's not like he's getting Light Speed (+) or anything of the such.

As for you stealing my Shen Gong Wu via the Emperor Scorpion - we've both got one, so you're not just going to steal my team's control away.

The Crystal Glasses are tricky - as their ability to grant the future is indeed useful [ this was a Wu I was tempted to pick ] but I do believe that if I devise a plan that's sturdy enough that even your ability to see the future won't be of assistance.

If I've read your posts correctly then Mister Terrific is the only one benefiting from the effects of the Shard of Lightning - so BP's teleportation and combat skills won't be at Light Speed & neither will the rest of your team.

For good measure, He also opens up as many Scourge of Erynis's as he can on top of your team, and leaves back to our starting point. Terrific does the same after opening up a stargate to the sun or whatnot. When that period ends, next on the draw should be Static, tbh since he already has machine gun bullet+ reaction speeds and is now amped by the Kree Moonstone which allows Moonstone to move in flashes of light and fast enough to keep up with a holding back Nova. Static gets the rest of everyone on my team involved and activates the SoL, just as Terrific's SoL session is ending.

Will be countering your team before this happens - thought those Scourge of Erynis's would be a pain to deal with if my team was standing still.

As for Terrific opening a star-gate to the sun - do you plan on pushing my team members through it an into the sun? It seems oddly out of character for a hero like Terrific to toss a combination of heroes & villains into the sun.

5. Static reaches your team and puts everyone to sleep with his powers (if there's anything left. There probably won't be but still), Blade can chop them up and/or make them forget about even having powers, items, being in a fight etc. with the Wushun Geyser, Afro can chop them up, Black Dynamite can chop them up and pound their face in with Juggernaut++ strength.

You've got some tough cookies - thankfully my cookies are tough too.

6. Overall we win before your team can breathe, think, or react.

With my experiences within Diredrill's original version of this Tournament the concept of a speedblitz is nothing but common amongst the participants within this Tournament. Juiceboks tried to beat me via speed blitz in round 2 - and that was a round where I didn't possess a Shard of Lightning while his own team did - so I've come prepared to prevent a blitz.

My Defenses + Offenses

Here's where I'll post my observations about the battle & devise my own strategy - working around your original plans of attack.

Initial Observations

  • My team has a slight numbers advantage - 8 vs 6
  • Your team is lacking defense from telepathic attacks and/or mental assaults - you've got 1 or 2 members that I see could withstand such an attack via the equipment they have - but it's a pretty crippling weakness.
  • We both have means to light speed movement via the SOL and we've both got two of them - I don't see any of us having a true speed advantage in this battle.
  • Some of our Wu should cancel out the others - my example being the Reversing Mirror as there's no point in using them as we can both reverse the other's assault.

So now that I've made some initial observations I'll get into my teams plan of attack - or in this case, defense as you're bringing your entire team directly to me thus eliminating the need for my team to search for yours.

1. Effectively Nullifying your Blitz

Personally - I don't believe that Mister Terrific would be able to use the Crystal Glasses & Shard of Lightning then locate & solo my entire team before they manage to process a thought - especially when my team has the means to replicate the exact same speeds via the exact same items.

My trump cards in preventing Mister Terrific from soloing my team lie in the combination of Mewtwo and Captain Cold's Cold Gun.

Mewtwo's first move [ because he has the best reaction times here due the fact that he can use his powers at the speed of thought ] is to activate the Cold Field* on the Cold Gun by pulling the trigger via Telekinesis.

* For those who are unaware - the Cold Field is a field of absolute zero that Captain Cold uses to prevent Wally West [ Flash ] from blitzing him in combat. The field is also expands more than a small personal field - it can cover my group of 8 with ease - especially since we're all huddled together at the start.

Mewtwo is one of the most powerful Pokemon via feats & Pokedex entries - and he's the top Psychic Pokemon, pulling a simple trigger on a very powerful weapon is not beyond his abilities.

With the Cold Field active my team is surrounded within a field of Absolute Zero Mister Terrific isn't going to be able to penetrate it to do anything that he had originally planned - of course he saw this happening with his Crystal Glasses, didn't he?

This act buys my team the time they need to activate their other defenses - even if it's only 5 seconds.

2. Activate Defenses!

The Cold Field should by my team the time they need to activate our own Shard of Lightning's - thus granting my team the similar light speed movement we're seeing in Terrific.

Now the battle has come down to that of wits & battle plans - combined with our equipment & what we plan on doing with it.

Wolverine will use his 1 dose of the Pym Particles to shrink his size down to the point where he could travel within the insides of your team members - sort of like Punisher did.

No Caption Provided

With his incredibly small size Wolverine will be practically undetectible from your team - he's also got the ability to teleport via the Golden Tiger Claws.

I can post a video if required - but anyone familiar w/Shen Gong Wu knows that the Golden Tiger Claws grant the user the ability to teleport to any destination that they desire, all they've got to do is say the destination out loud and they'll open a portal to it.

Wolverine will use the Golden Tiger Claws in combination with his newly found small size and will travel into the aortic valve of Mister Terrific. While there he will use is Adamantium Claws to attack the heart directly from the inside out - he'll the teleport to other members of your team once he's killed Mister Terrific.

You've got some tough durability - but most of it is from physical attacks that occur outside of the human body.

Deadshot will use the Third Arm Sash to hold Captain Cold's Cold Gun. With his left hand he'll hold Mirror Master's gun that can be used to transmute people into glass and in his right hand he wields the power of the Disintegration Ring + the Plasmids.

Deadshot will activate the duplication feature on Mirror Master's armor to create a vast number of duplicates of himself to flood the battlefield in order to confuse your team - it's known that the duplicates created by Mirror Master are able to cause physical harm & interact with the real world, so they'll be a good distraction at the least.

Just a showing of his duplicates - this wasn't an act of prep beforehand - all you've gotta do is push a button.

The real Deadshot will then enter the Mirror World - this grants him travel throughout any and all reflective surfaces. With his accuracy, arsenal, and light speed movement - Deadshot will have no difficulty tagging any and all members of your team with the Cold Gun or the Glass Gun in order to either freeze them solid or transmute them to class - both of which would make your team incredibly fragile & easy to KO/Kill.

If a traditional Hitman like Mirror Master is able to poke his hand out of the Mirror World - then Deadshot after 1 month of training with the equipment should be able to do the same. Deadshot is essentially protected from any attacks your team can toss at him.

Then I've got Ditto - Ditto is going to transform into Mewtwo. This grants him the powers & abilities of Mewtwo; however, he's at about 50 or 75% effectiveness with these moves.

So I've got 1.75 Mewtwo's on my team now - and the real Mewtwo has the Mento Intensifier to further enhance his mental abilities.

This leads to part 3.

3. Mind Control Mania!

As I mentioned earlier your team is lacking defense from Telepaths - I do believe that Mister Terrific is protected via the Worldmind and Black Panther might be good because of Doom's armor, but the rest of your team is lacking, this means that they'll fall prey to Mewtwo's mental assault via the attack known as Psychic.

Mewtwo is going to scan the battlefield for any of those weak minded enough for his powers to have an effect on them - which - from what I've seen should be the following team members:

  1. Static Shock
  2. Blade
  3. Black Dynamite
  4. Afro Samurai

Mewtwo was able to fully control Nurse Joy in his first appearance within the Pokemon Movie - he did so for a prolonged period of time as well. He's also capable of erasing memories as he did to all the trainers who witnessed him throughout the film - after his mind wipe nobody was able to remember who Mewtwo was or why they were all sitting at the Pokemon Center.

Since the four members of your team are not resistant to mental assaults they should easily fall prey to a mind wipe & then mind control via Mewtwo - thus using them against Black Panther & Mister Terrific [ if they haven't been killed by Wolverine.

With these newly mind controlled team members added to my own arsenal Mewtwo will have them stand still [ after disposing of Black Panther and Mister Terrific if they haven't already fallen ] and then Deadshot can transmute them to glass & shatter them, Winter Soldier can shoot them up with Adamantium Ammo, Lady Shiva can create weapons via the Witchblade & kill em - and tons of other possibilities.

The point it - Mewtwo can nullify 4 out of your 6 team members & use them against you while Wolverine viciously shreds the innards of your other team members & Deadshot transmutes them to glass.

4. What my other team members will be doing?

Deathstoke has the Blue Scarab so he's got tons of damage output at his hands - he can also generate force fields that Bart Allen couldn't pass through or vibrate through.

Lady Shiva will use the Rat Talisman on the Doom Armor to bring out the powers & abilities of Doctor Doom - thus adding another team member to my roster who is more experienced with the armor than Black Panther is.

Spider Man will go invisible & assault your team with Web Shooters to distract/hold them.

Winter Soldier is kind of useless - but he has Adamantium Ammo which should pierce anyone on your team.

CONCLUSIONS

  1. My team can prevent the initial blitz
  2. My team has more firepower & more team members
  3. My team has more versatility besides just light speed movement - we've also got teleportation and the Mirror Verse
  4. You have nothing to mentally protect Static, Blade, Black Dynamite, or Afro Samurai from a mind wipe & mind control assault via Mewtwo.
  5. Wolverine can practically solo since he's tearing the insides of your team members apart via teleportation + Pym Particles.

I apologize that it took me so long to respond; however, I hope we'll be able to have a fun match.

@darkraiden - in case the other tag didn't work :)

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#23  Edited By oceanmaster21

this is gona be a great CAV

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oceanmaster21

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@highaccuser: tourney well it still a great match both these debaters are epic debaters

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DarkRaiden

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#26  Edited By DarkRaiden

@thetruebarryallen:

1. Actually, SOL does NOT give us the same speed. the video has shown that it gives the "slow down time" effect when used and the user moves at their normal speed for the time the SGW is activated. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIfX9lgFszQ and starts around 10:16. So while Jack is walking around doing stuff, Terrific will be flying at FTL speeds giving him essentially FTL^2 speed. So yes it is a multiplication and addition to my current speed.

You said that Terrific won't be able to reach your team in time? I think with his (M)FTL flight speed or even flight speed displayed vs. the Serpent Society (all of that in .2 seconds) he'll do it within the nanosecond. Add on the SOL and it's not even a nanosecond, it's a nanosecond of a nanosecond. And finding you takes no time since he sees the future with Crystal Glasses. He could also teleport there with Doom's Armor/BP after SOL is activated.

2. You say Mewtwo thinks faster than Terrific/Nova. Can you prove that at all? I just....see no proof of that really. His powers seem to work at the speed of thought and only that.

3. I also have 2 SOL, the first being used by Terrific and BP (whoever is touching it at the time gets the affects), and the second being used by Static and the others. So no, not only Terrific will be using SOL, but my entire team. Terrific's just the fastest and can easily solo. I would also like to point out that Mewtwo doesn't have the SOL and thus will unfortunately not be able to activate the Cold Field. The speed of thought is approximately 300-400 milliseconds and...Nova greatly outclasses that speed.

First one is clearing hemispheres in seconds (faster than thought movement), flying from Earth to Moon in a short time, and Time dilation which allows him to react to FTL space travel. Now this is the most important set of scans. Nova/Sam specifically explains that Worldmind can perform time dilation to make seconds feel like weeks and can do the opposite to make his FTL space travel bearable. So you see, Terrific with these powers is MASSIVELY faster than Mewtwo and the rest of your team. The only reason for the SOL is to stack the speed for more assurance.

And he has every reason to do this because remember: He has the Crystal Glasses and knows that he has to reach your team before any Cold Field and/or Mental shenanigans.

4. I'm....a bit baffled by your claiming that Wolverine is undetectable by my team when you just acknowledged the Crystal Glasses. Not to mention the Worldmind and Battle Computers. And given that Terrific, Static, BP, and Black Dynamite all have forcefields...and Blade and Afro Samurai can't die due to Ebony Blades....that strategy is pretty much 100% useless. Oh and Static can go intangible with Moonstone's power too.

Not to mention that Blade can hit small opponents.

Showing that Nova can form forcefields and can expel energy from his body, same for Static, and Doom's armor has forcefields (not mention Static, Blade, and BP all have vibranium suits on that cover them head to toe).

No Caption Provided

And that's without the Crystal Glasses.

5. Deadshot is painfully slow and won't get a chance to do much to even activate his guns tbh. And again, the mirror gun's not getting past the various forcefields we have. BP has Doom's suit AND the Fountain of Hui/Eagle Scope so not only can he at any time know any and everything ever, but he can also traverse dimensions and can redirect Deadshot's journey to the mirror world to a different place entirely.

Just showing his teleportation redirecting abilities in the suit.

P.S. Ditto won't have time to transform either tbh.

6. Mind Control counters.

Static has natural counters due to electricity powers, being undetectable by Miss Martian, AND resisting the Anti-Life Equation.

Black Dynamite has Juggernaut's resistance to that (which is extremely high especially with the complementary helmet)

Blade has resisted mind control from like generals of Hell, but those feats are hard to find

Black Panther has natural TP defenses AND Doom's armor to protect him

Terrific has his T-mask/T-spheres. Actually so does everyone else should it get that far. T-spheres block mind control.

Showing that Dooms' mask has circuitry that protects against mind control, BP has natural defenses against it, Static has defenses, and T-spheres provide defenses.

Oh and for the Stargate, I'm not sure if Terrific would push Spider-Man through (he doesn't actually have to push). Everyone else are borderline villains and he knows what they'll do/try to do (Wolverine will try to kill us so....he has to die).

No Caption Provided

That's a stargate, and it can be made to automatically hurt people just near it, nonetheless teleporting those caught in it. It's away around the Cold Field should you somehow get a chance to react.

So overall:

  • I'm combining Terrific's already FTL speed and reactions with pre-cog and the Lightspeed of SOL to move so much faster than light that it's not funny (at least light^2)
  • Him and BP take out your team before they can react with blasts, gravity, TK, transmutation from talismans, other attacks from talismans, Scourge of Erynis, Claw of Horus, etc.
  • They also physically take your items and even use Emperor Scorpion if need be to take your SGW
  • Next would be Static with very fast reflexes due to his own natural reflexes+Moonstone upgrade and using the SOL
  • This brings the rest of my group, which is Blade and Afro at super speeds with a blade that cuts through magic and everything in existence and keeps them truly immortal, Black dynamite Juggernaut with super speed, a clone, AND a battle Computer, plus adamantium bullets, some good swords, and adamantium boomerang shuriken,
  • Even if somehow you avoided the blitz, we'd get by the Wolverine shrinking strategy with ease (via forcefields and durability and intangibility), and even get by the Cold field with Scourge of Erynis spam, TK from Talismans, and the Wushun Geyser (to make you forget you're even in a fight, nonetheless how to use your weapons), and even a Stargate
  • Without the cold field, your team falls to Juggernaut, memory loss, Gravity fields, hand blasts, being hit by the Claw of Horus, being sliced by Adamantium/Nth Metal/Ebony Blades, etc.
  • We all have proper mental defenses+T-Spheres to help block it
  • Any attempts to go to the mirror verse will be blocked and redirected by BP with Doom's Armor.
  • Pretty much we're faster, massively faster, more durable, more powerful, and everything you try to do we'll literally know before you do it.

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@darkraiden: Wow - didn't expect you to respond tonight.

Droppin' Knowledge Bombs

I've gotta do what the title states, so let's begin.

Actually, SOL does NOT give us the same speed. the video has shown that it gives the "slow down time" effect when used and the user moves at their normal speed for the time the SGW is activated. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIfX9lgFszQ and starts around 10:16. So while Jack is walking around doing stuff, Terrific will be flying at FTL speeds giving him essentially FTL^2 speed. So yes it is a multiplication and addition to my current speed.

Nope - wrong.

The Shard of Lightning doesn't slow down time - it grants the user Light Speed Movement & that's it. The animators for the show used a sort of 'ripple' effect in order to show that everything else was slow in comparison to the movement of Jack.

Loading Video...

At 0:38 we begin to hear the insight from Master Fung - who is a Xaiolin Master & knows a great deal about the various Shen Gong Wu and their effects - so let's see what he has to say, shall we?

Master Fung states - "As soon as the user brings forth the power of the Shard he can move so fast no one can see him, but the powers of the Shard only last as long as the flash of the lightning".

So - you're not moving at FTL^2 speeds. You're moving at a maximum of light speed.

You said that Terrific won't be able to reach your team in time? I think with his (M)FTL flight speed or even flight speed displayed vs. the Serpent Society (all of that in .2 seconds) he'll do it within the nanosecond. Add on the SOL and it's not even a nanosecond, it's a nanosecond of a nanosecond. And finding you takes no time since he sees the future with Crystal Glasses. He could also teleport there with Doom's Armor/BP after SOL is activated.

You're taking that whole Nova Corps vs Serpent Society battle a little out of context here - it wasn't Nova by himself nor was it the version of Nova who you're gaining your abilities from.

It was a team of 5 experienced Nova Corps members that completed the operation in 1.86 seconds with a statement saying they could've done it in .02 seconds LESS than their initial attempt making their operation completion time being 1.84 seconds - still long enough for Mewtwo to activate the Cold Field via TK.

To put your 1.86 [ 1.84 if they were trying harder ] seconds of defeating the Serpent Society in perspective I'd like to bring in the story of Jerry Miculek who holds several world records when it comes to speed shooting, now he's a real person who isn't enhanced by any comic book laws or rules - so let's see what his speeds were.

He was able to empty 8 rounds in 1 second when shooting at 1 target - and 8 rounds on 4 targets in 1.06 seconds.

Now this is a real human being we're talking about here - and I can link to the video right HERE.

We've also got the fact that Deadshot is HOLDING one of the two SOL's on my team - I just timed myself saying the phrase required to activate it - 'Shard of Lightning' - and I was able to say it 4 times before the timer hit the 1.86 seconds mark.

So currently I'm under the believe that Mewtwo could either pull the trigger via TK or Deadshot could do it himself faster than it would take Mister Terrific to complete the tasks you've given him & register my teams actual location.

2. You say Mewtwo thinks faster than Terrific/Nova. Can you prove that at all? I just....see no proof of that really. His powers seem to work at the speed of thought and only that.

I just did above - you're vastly overrating the speed of Mister Terrific w/Nova's abilities here. I addressed this above.

3. I also have 2 SOL, the first being used by Terrific and BP (whoever is touching it at the time gets the affects), and the second being used by Static and the others. So no, not only Terrific will be using SOL, but my entire team. Terrific's just the fastest and can easily solo. I would also like to point out that Mewtwo doesn't have the SOL and thus will unfortunately not be able to activate the Cold Field. The speed of thought is approximately 300-400 milliseconds and...Nova greatly outclasses that speed.

Well - I'm glad we've both bought items to grant our teams the exact same movement speed.

Deadshot is holding both the Cold Gun & the SOL - he can easily activate both with the pull of the trigger & saying the phrase 'Shard of Lightning' just as fast as Mister Terrific can.

Terrific can not easily solo - lol.

Once Deadshot activates the protective field around my team and with his own Light Speed Movement he's able to gather the rest of my team around Wolverine and have Wolvie activate his SOL & grant LSM to the rest of my team.

Our teams are now on the same exact level of speed - so it's time to drop the speed argument here.

First one is clearing hemispheres in seconds (faster than thought movement), flying from Earth to Moon in a short time, and Time dilation which allows him to react to FTL space travel. Now this is the most important set of scans. Nova/Sam specifically explains that Worldmind can perform time dilation to make seconds feel like weeks and can do the opposite to make his FTL space travel bearable. So you see, Terrific with these powers is MASSIVELY faster than Mewtwo and the rest of your team. The only reason for the SOL is to stack the speed for more assurance.

1.) Terrific might have faster movement/travel speed - but it's not enough to do what you've claimed he'll be doing before Deadshot activates his own SOL & the Speed Draining Cold Field that'll surround my team at the start of the battle.

2.) Terrific isn't getting 'stacked' speed from the SOL.

And he has every reason to do this because remember: He has the Crystal Glasses and knows that he has to reach your team before any Cold Field and/or Mental shenanigans.

The Crystal Glasses don't have many 'feats' of precise future telling, mate.

From what I recall the Crystal Glasses were used by Raymundo to play a prank on Omi whose moves he was able to predict [ this is not a long term view ] and the time that Omi used them while under the effects of the Reversing Mirror and saw a false future - it's not like the user can choose how far or how short into the future they'll be seeing.

Cold Fields still up & Terrific doesn't have the speed to prevent this.

4. I'm....a bit baffled by your claiming that Wolverine is undetectable by my team when you just acknowledged the Crystal Glasses. Not to mention the Worldmind and Battle Computers. And given that Terrific, Static, BP, and Black Dynamite all have forcefields...and Blade and Afro Samurai can't die due to Ebony Blades....that strategy is pretty much 100% useless. Oh and Static can go intangible with Moonstone's power too.

The phrase that I used was as follows: Practically Undetectable.

Practically is an adverb that means virtually or almost - meaning very close to impossible, but not impossible.

I didn't work in absolutes, as only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes :)

Anyways - did you read what I had said all the way through, because the way you're responding to it seems like you might've just skimmed.

1.) Wolverine is shrinking down to a size that is undetectable via the human eye - he might appear on scanners or within the future seen by the Crystal Glasses and/or Battle Computers - but it doesn't mean that your team is going to actually be able to SEE him.

2.) Force Fields are useless when Wolverine is using a magical artifact known as the Golden Tiger Claws [ a Shen Gong Wu ] to teleport directly INTO their hearts. What is a force field on the outside going to do? Nothing, that's what.

3.) They can't die because of the Ebony Blades? Well it's a good thing that my team also has someone using the Ebony Blade so they understand the healing factor that comes with it so they'll disarm Blade & AS of their blades. Mewtwo can easily disarm via TK - as he was able to lift an entire horde of Tauros who weigh 195 [ or 194.9 exact ] pounds - some simple swords should be no problem.

No Caption Provided

You might be questioning the armor that Mewtwo is wearing in the above gif - at first he had to wear it to focus his powers but eventually he outgrew it & became perfectly fine & powerful w/o it.

Not to mention that Blade can hit small opponents.

So he's going to hit Wolverine when he's teleported into Blade's heart?

Showing that Nova can form forcefields and can expel energy from his body, same for Static, and Doom's armor has forcefields (not mention Static, Blade, and BP all have vibranium suits on that cover them head to toe).

I think to completely ignored the fact that Wolverine is teleporting INSIDE of your team - those force fields are useless.

5. Deadshot is painfully slow and won't get a chance to do much to even activate his guns tbh. And again, the mirror gun's not getting past the various forcefields we have. BP has Doom's suit AND the Fountain of Hui/Eagle Scope so not only can he at any time know any and everything ever, but he can also traverse dimensions and can redirect Deadshot's journey to the mirror world to a different place entirely.

1.) Deadshot is not painfully slow - he's got the base level reaction time to easily react to & tag Speedsters [ as he's done with Owen Mercer & with some unnamed speedster from back in the day ] and he's getting enhanced to the SAME level of speed as your team is at because if you haven't noticed he TOO is holding one of my team's Shard of Lightning's.

2.) You've still got Wolverine unaccounted for - he bypasses all the force fields via teleportation into your teams vital organs.

3.) If you redirect Deadshot he can just get back to the Universe we're battling in via the Mirror World - unless you're going to just have BP focus on Deadshot the entire battle? Like I said in point 2 thought - you've got no counter for Wolverine porting inside your teams internal organs.

4.) I'm honestly going to have to counter your BP in Doom's armor with the fact that my team used the Rat Talisman to bring Doom's armor to life with the memories, personality, and skills of the actual Doctor Doom. The OG Doom is much better than Black Panther in Doom's armor.

P.S. Ditto won't have time to transform either tbh.

Yep - he will, I've already countered your "speed blitz".

Static has natural counters due to electricity powers, being undetectable by Miss Martian, AND resisting the Anti-Life Equation.

Alright - so Static's was able to evade Miss Martian on one occasion. He didn't; however, resist the Anti-Life Equation. He was able to break free from the equation but initially it had an effect on him so that's not really a good feat to bring up for resisting an initial mind control attack.

Black Dynamite has Juggernaut's resistance to that (which is extremely high especially with the complementary helmet)

Juggernaut does have some incredibly high TP resistance - is there any reason why Mewtwo couldn't life the helmet off of BD's head, if I recall correctly the way that Professor X & his X Men defeated Juggernaut the first time was having the mutant known as Angel or Archangel fly down & lift the helmet off of his head.

Blade has resisted mind control from like generals of Hell, but those feats are hard to find

Do these generals of Hell have any sort of significant feats of mind control that would give those feats some weight? Anyways - my team has two Mewtwo's & the real one has a Mento Intensifier to increase his abilities even further.

Black Panther has natural TP defenses AND Doom's armor to protect him

Fair enough - it's why I left Black Panther off the list of people getting mind controlled.

Terrific has his T-mask/T-spheres. Actually so does everyone else should it get that far. T-spheres block mind control.

False - Terrific does NOT have his T-Spheres for this battle.

The T-Spheres were a Low Tier item that cost (7) points to acquire. You did not buy any T-Spheres this round nor did you last round so you don't have them for this tournament even if they're NORMALLY standard gear for Mister Terrific.

If this was true then I would've picked Mirror Master who is Street Level w/o his gear & just used his standard gear of the suit & glass gun instead of paying (10) High Tier points.

Oh and for the Stargate, I'm not sure if Terrific would push Spider-Man through (he doesn't actually have to push). Everyone else are borderline villains and he knows what they'll do/try to do (Wolverine will try to kill us so....he has to die).

Mister Terrific would not try to kill villains by pushing/sucking them through a Stargate into the sun - if you think that is IN CHARACTER for him to do so then I don't think we're thinking of the same Mister Terrific.

That's a stargate, and it can be made to automatically hurt people just near it, nonetheless teleporting those caught in it. It's away around the Cold Field should you somehow get a chance to react.

Awesome - too bad it wouldn't be in character for Mister Terrific to open up a Stargate in the middle of the battle that'll suck people into it & send them to the center of the sun - especially because his own team would get pulled through.

I'm combining Terrific's already FTL speed and reactions with pre-cog and the Lightspeed of SOL to move so much faster than light that it's not funny (at least light^2)

Debunked this.

Him and BP take out your team before they can react with blasts, gravity, TK, transmutation from talismans, other attacks from talismans, Scourge of Erynis, Claw of Horus, etc.

Debunked this via Cold Field preventing the blitz & Wolverine killing Mister Terrific & BP via shrinking w/Pym Particles & using the Golden Tiger Claws to teleport himself inside your teams Internal Organs.

They also physically take your items and even use Emperor Scorpion if need be to take your SGW

We both have Emperor Scorpions - what are you trying to accomplish by saying that YOURS will take control of my Wu? Anyways - Mewtwo's TK & Deadshot's Gravity Well can do the same thing to you.

Next would be Static with very fast reflexes due to his own natural reflexes+Moonstone upgrade and using the SOL

We're all moving at light speed - the speed argument is completely useless on both sides here, dude.

This brings the rest of my group, which is Blade and Afro at super speeds with a blade that cuts through magic and everything in existence and keeps them truly immortal, Black dynamite Juggernaut with super speed, a clone, AND a battle Computer, plus adamantium bullets, some good swords, and adamantium boomerang shuriken,

My team has literally all of those objects besides the Juggernaut Strength, Boomerang, and Battle Computer.

Spamming your items without actually applying them doesn't really hold much weight, see, I can do it too, watch.

My team has the 12 Talismans so Spider-Man has all the Talisman powers so he can just use them to fight your team and obliterate them and then Deathstoke has the Ebony Blade which makes him functionally immortal plus he's got the Blue Beetle Scarab so he can fly and create force fields and make guns out of his arms that'll shoot through your team, and Spider-Man can make a clone of himself with the Tiger Talisman, and Deadshot can BFR your entire team to the Mirror World and then use his Cold Grenades on them because they were able to freeze an entire prison with just one of them and I have 5 so I can just use them to freeze 5 of your team members inside of an ice berg and then Winter Soldier will use his Adamantium bullets to just shoot the 6th member and Mewtwo has TK so he'll use that and so does Ditto and Lady Shiva has the Witchblade and will just make tons of spears and spam spears while Deadshot spams Gravity Well and Hypnotize.

See - that whole paragraph just did effectively nothing for either of us.

Even if somehow you avoided the blitz, we'd get by the Wolverine shrinking strategy with ease (via forcefields and durability and intangibility), and even get by the Cold field with Scourge of Erynis spam, TK from Talismans, and the Wushun Geyser (to make you forget you're even in a fight, nonetheless how to use your weapons), and even a Stargate

Oops - you did it again.

We are avoiding the blitz, you're not getting through the Wolverine Shrinking Strategy with ease [ in fact you have nothing to stop it ] and I haven't even brought out all the big guns yet.

Without the cold field, your team falls to Juggernaut, memory loss, Gravity fields, hand blasts, being hit by the Claw of Horus, being sliced by Adamantium/Nth Metal/Ebony Blades, etc.

Blooooop.

We all have proper mental defenses+T-Spheres to help block it

You have no T-Spheres and only SOME of your team has Mental defenses.

Any attempts to go to the mirror verse will be blocked and redirected by BP with Doom's Armor.

Any attempts to block and redirect any attempts to the Mirror Verse will be blocked and redirected by Doom with Doom's Armor.

Pretty much we're faster, massively faster, more durable, more powerful, and everything you try to do we'll literally know before you do it.

We're exactly the same speed, have the same exact items that grant immortality & high durability, my team has more effective damage output than just "SPAMMIN" and it doesn't matter if you know what my team is going to do if you don't have the means to stop it.

If I was able to see into the future and saw that Russia was going to start a Nuclear War with America it wouldn't matter because I don't have the means to stop said war - in this case your team may see what my team is going to do but you have no way of putting an end to it.

Fallout from the Knowledge Bomb

Woah - that was quite the knowledge bomb blast, let's see where that leaves us!

  • My team is effectively countering your blitz - I've shown it, and you've read your scans & observed your video's incorrectly.
  • You don't have a way to prevent Wolverine from teleporting into your teams internal organs and slashing them apart from the inside out.
  • Mewtwo is telepathically defending my team - you won't be wiping their minds - while he's also taking control of those with the lesser TP resistance such as Static & Blade.
  • Mewtwo, Ditto, Spider-Man, and Deadshot are all capable of using TK to disarm your team via items they have or their own natural abilities.
  • Doom in Doom's Armor > Black Panther in Doom's Armor

How the Battle Goes

1.) Both Deadshot & Mister Terrific are going to be able to activate their respective items at the same time - Terrific doens't have the massive speed boost you're claiming he has.

2.) Deadshot - at Light Speed & within the field - will place everyone's hands on Wolverine's Shard of Lightning & then activate it so everyone on my team will be moving at Light Speed!

3.) The Cold Field will be active - if any of your members try to pass through it then they'll be frozen in place & easily dispatched of.

4.) Mewtwo uses his mental abilities to give my team a TP shield & uses his mind control abilities to take over the minds of Static & Blade as neither of them showed enough resistance to such an attack.

5.) Deadshot will use Mirror Master's equipment to create 1000's of duplicates of himself - he then heads into the Mirror Verse. If BP in Doom's armor tries to redirect this then Doom in Doom's armor will redirect BP's attempt. Doom in Doom's Armor > BP in Doom's Armor.

6.) Wolverine will use his 1 dose of Pym Particles to shrink down to microscopic size & then use the Mario Star to grant him INVINCIBILITY for 10 seconds. He then uses the Golden Tiger Claws to go inside the internal organs of all of your team members in the following order: Mister Terrific -> Black Panther -> Black Dynamite -> Afro Samurai -> Static Shock -> Blade.

7. The TK abilities of Mewtwo + Ditto + Deadshot + Spider-Man [ w/talismans ] should be enough to disarm your team of the following items: Juggernaut Helmet // Ebony Blades // Talismans.

8. Wolverine could potentially solo in the 10 second time frame that he's invincible - you do NOT have a counter for a microscopic, invisible, invincible, teleporting, angry Canadian, with claws that can cut through anything.

9. Deathstroke becomes quite the menace with his Ebony Blade - which as you've mentioned can cut through anything [ even your pesky force fields ] and grants him immortality. Deathstroke also has the Blue Beetle Scarab that allows him to manifest different weapons, teleport, and create force fields that even the Flash couldn't vibrate through em.

No Caption Provided

10. You may have BP in Doom's armor - but due to the Rat Talisman being used on my set of Doom's Armor it brings the abilities and personality of the real Doctor Doom to life. Doctor Doom is going to use his own armor more efficiently than Black Panther will inside of Doom's armor.

So there you have it - my team can effectively negate the blitz, over power your team, disarm your team with the power of our own TK long enough for Wolverine to kill your most important team members ( Mister Terrific // Black Panther // Black Dynamite ) leaving only Afro Samurai and Static against my team.

Static may be able to go intangible - but the rules state that's only for 30 seconds - not enough time for him to do enough damage to my team.

It's 2AM now - so I'm gonna go to bed because I've got work in 11 hours - but I look forward to your response.

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DarkRaiden

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@thetruebarryallen:

1. I disagree. Think of it like...any magic item/enchantment/power up. Galactus Herald power up? Stacks on your natural powers. Juggernaut Enchantment? Stacks on your natural powers. Captain Universe? Stacks on your natural powers. See where I'm going with this? I'll just ask you one small question, in bold.

If Jack Spicer RAN instead of walked in that video/time he used SOL, do you think he would've moved faster than if he walked? Because what you're saying is no he wouldn't, which makes no sense. SOL grants lightspeed movement to the point where you can walk around and goof around and do stuff for nearly 20-30 seconds of real time, before anyone reacts. But if you already move that fast, logic dictates it would only boost that speed. Just saying.

And Serpent Society? What does experience have to do with this? You realize I have a absolute genius (who was able to disarm a nuclear bomb on the spot, for the first time ever, in 10 seconds) who has 1 month of training as well as devices that allow him to see the future and a tool (combination of fountain of hui and eagle scope) that allows him to get the answer to any questions he might have right? If anything he's MORE experienced and knowledgeable than any of them except MAYBE Richard Rider. Maybe.

Plus you're missing the actions taking place here. Terrific is only grabbing the Shard of Lightning and activating it under his own speed (unamped). After that he's lightspeed+ (lightspeed ^2 to be exact). So Deadshot has to grab the SOL and say those words (takes about .5 seconds to say, another .5 to grab it) before Terrific and BP do what I've said they'd do at lightspeed squared, or even just lightspeed if we use your theory.

Avengers tower is 20 stories, aka 66 meters long. Light moves at 300 million meters per second. So we get there waaaaaay before you can react. After that, it's as simple as using TK from the talisman or physically flying/walking and taking your items before you can say anything or react.

Now I might not be doing this right but.....if I divide those 66 meters by the 300,000,000 that light travels in a second, then that's 2x10^-7 which is something like 200 nanoseconds, while you're still just THINKING in milliseconds (300x10^-3). So I repeat again, before you can react we've taken everything from you far before that second passes (or even half a second according to your measurement of you saying Shard of Lightning 4 times in 2 seconds.

And this isn't counting the stacked speed, Black Panther's teleportation due to Doom's armor and/or flying instead of walking/running.

2. Deadshot can't say Shard of Lightning as fast as Terrific can unless he has FTL reflexive speed as I've shown below. Even using your example of a guy shooting a gun in 1.06 seconds or w/e the Novas were able to fly through and attack 5-6 people before they could react and subdue them all in 1.84 seconds. Sam himself has shown FTL reflexes and even faster speed by clearing a hemisphere in seconds. We're not the same speed at all.

3. I can choose how far to see in the future with....wait for it...the Fountain of Hui and Eagle Scope which has all of the secrets of the universe. Nifty tool. Also Omi DID specify that he wanted to see the far future (the reversing mirror messed that up of course) so it's shown that one CAN control how far he wants to see whether it be immediate or in the far future.

4. If the Crystal Glasses/Battle Computers tell us where Wolverine is going to be...we don't need to physically SEE him to hit him. We know where he's going to be every second he makes a move.

As for teleporting inside of our bodies, I need proof that the Golden Claws can do that. I've never seen it, but I'm sure you have such proof.

Forcefields are useful because the Golden Claws haven't shown the ability to get past them. Also remember I showed Nova and Static discharging energy throughout their bodies, which means a dead Wolverine (since being small, the impact/force/energy he's hit with will be A LOT more).

Not that it'll get that far since My speed has already destroyed your team and disarmed your team.

5. TK the Ebony Blades away? Have you forgotten that you'd have to overpower the strength of the holders of the Blade? You showed Mewtwo lifting what? 190 pounds with his mind? Blade has a natural strength of close to 7 or 10 tons, and Afro not only has strength but it's augmented twice by N52 Deathstroke's armor AND an Nth metal belt. Oh and Blade has the Ox Talisman which boosts his strength that much more.

Not that taking the blades would do much as both have insane healing factors (Afro because of the Nth metal), so Wolverine won't be able to do much damage.

6. Deadshot is painfully slow to freaking Nova who has massively hypersonic and FTL reaction speeds. Tagging a speedster is nice, but Blade does that at base and has far better speed/reaction feats then Deadshot. As does Static.

Also, I'd like to point out that, at best if somehow Deadshot were able to match a Nova's reaction speed, only he would be moving at lightspeed vs. my entire team.

7. PROVE Wolverine can bypass forcefields and that he can teleport inside of people's bodies with the Golden Claws. I don't recall the Golden Claws ever being used that way. And then PROVE or tell me how BP doesn't simply redirect his teleport the same way he does Deadshot's mirrorverse port. BTW the redirect was simply to STOP you from getting to the mirror world. Not BFR you for good or anything. You can return anytime you want to get stomped.

A big problem you all have is that you have no counter for Static's magnetism or the Rooster Talisman's TK taking away your items. At all. And given that we'll all be moving waaaay faster than you, that pretty much decides the fight.

8. Doom's armor can't be brought to life if you're blitzed first. But even if you do bring it to life....it won't use the suit any better than BP will. BP's already reverse engineered Doom tech before and now he has a month and a fountain of infinite knowledge to aid him. Plus a simple charge from Static leaves the suit stuck to a wall. Or some spamming Scourge of Erynis leaves it destroyed. Or Black Dynamite just juggernaut crushes it with ease. Or the Ebony/Nth Metal blades cut it and disperse the magic of the talisman, making it just armor again. The armor will be useless to you.

9. Mewtwo would have to KNOW about Juggernaut's vulnerability to do so. Unfortunately he doesn't. And given that Black Dynamite's moving at super speed (on top of SOL) and has a battle computer and a clone that appears to help him fight his enemies...Mewtwo will be dead before he figures it out.

Static countering Miss Martian's TP and overcoming the ALE is enough to resist Mewtwo's nearly featless TP. He's never controlled a TP resistant person ever. So it'll be enough for Static.

10. Huh? You know the rules say Standard Gear right? That means I get T-Spheres. @highaccuser limited me to 10 instead of the thousands I can usually use, but that's it. I have the PM. You could except Mirror Master isn't street level unfortunately. You would have to still use the 10 high tier points to get his standard gear. I didn't list Terrific sans T-Spheres. I picked Terrific with T-Spheres and all. Sorry.

11. I'm pretty sure Terrific wouldn't have problems murdering people he KNOWS 100% are going to try and kill him in a few minutes. I mean...I've never seen him try to do something super morally correct. He mind erased the telepath he fought last I saw which is very morally 'wrong' for most heroes. If you have a scan or something of him objecting to such actions that'd be cool. Otherwise, Stargate to the sun it is. And btw, my team are all immortal and would survive the damage done to them. BP can teleport himself and has many defenses to protect himself as well (the only one NOT immortal).

12. You didn't actually debunk the blitz nor will the cold field even be activated tbh. I've already proven that Nova's superior reflexes allow Terrific to activate the SOL before Deadshot and that even a few microseconds will be too late for you to do anything about it. If you want I can even count how many words Nova thought in those 1.86 seconds and compare it to your example of saying SOL in .5 seconds or w/e. I'll win the speed battle so you know.

13. You misunderstand. My emperor scorpion matters simply because the person using yours is too slow and won't be active enough to even touch it and activate it. That's why we don't conflict. Your TK argument needs work since you've only shown Mewtwo lifting 190lb objects and not getting close to overpowering 10 tons+ of strength. We also have gravity with Nova/Terrific, Magnetism with Static, AND TK with BP, stronger TK than you've shown so....we'd win. Also we have things like the Moonstone, Battle Computers, Gem of Cyttorak, Worldmind, etc. that are virtually impossible to remove. So we'd win even if you stripped us bare somehow (you wouldn't be able to).

14. Your team has everything except the Super speed (both Worldmind and Fancy Feet), Battle Computers and Crystal Glasses which TELL ME THE FUTURE and the wealth/fountain of infinite knowledge, and the gem that makes one of my guys completely invincible and the T-Spheres. Wow, you don't see how that can sway a battle? At all? Invincibility, speed, pre-cog, etc.? Ok, more power to you.

15. Intangibility doesn't stop Wolverine's strategy? Juggernaut not only being able to fight as a skeleton and heal extremely fast and being more durable than a planet doesn't combat Wolverine's plan? Add on to the whole 'you need to prove you can do it' and I think that's a damn good counter.

16. Wait what? You have items that grant durability? Where? I don't see a gem of Cyttorak or anyone on your team actually USING Doom's armor so...that's wrong. Same with having a Moonstone or the Worldmind. You're kinda just making up stuff.

How the Battle Really Goes

A. Terrific activates SOL for him and BP much much faster than Deadshot due to faster reflexes and time dilation (which you never countered)

B. Black Panther and him reach your team in microseconds, Deadshot hasn't even opened his mouth yet

C. They use TK, Gravity, and physical ability and speed to confiscate all of your items before anyone has even moved, including Deadshot.

D. They kill your team either with a Stargate, Blast from Doom's armor, Gravity, fire from Talismans, TK, Scourge of Erynis, a punch from the Claw of Horus, etc.

E. We win.

F. Just for overkill, next Static and the rest of my team would then activate THEIR SOL as we're all way faster than Deadshot still.

G. Then we'd kill you with lightning/put you to sleep with lightning/have Black Dynamite pound your face in/rip out your hearts with partial intangibility/Kill you with eyebeams/Cut you into pieces with Ebony/Nth Metal/Adamantium Blades, etc.

And, disclaimer: This is using YOUR THEORY that we're all just moving lightspeed. I haven't even stacked speed in this one, which would just make it worse for you.

So overall:

Summary:

  • Nova/Terrific and even Static with the Moonstone are faster than your team and thus activate the SOL first
  • Due to lightspeed or lightspeed^2 (depending on my theory or yours), we blitz and confiscate your items and beat/kill you before you react
  • Regardless of speed with the SOL, you'd have to counter magnetism, gravity, and tk taking away your items, you'd be unable to take ours away due to strength+superspeed+pre-cog
  • We can kill/beat you with blasts, stargates, magnetism, intangibility, juggernaut's super strength+speed, ebony blades, and more
  • My entire team is immortal outside of BP who has enough durability and forcefields to survive any attacks
  • Wolverine shrinking strategy is flawed, unproven, and easily countered with intangibility, forcefields, energy dispersion, and pure durability
  • We all have mental defenses and those that don't get T-Spheres luckily
  • Not to mention once Blade gets in your vicinity, he can just literally make you all forget who you are.
  • Black Juggernaut can also blitz you with Juggernaut strength+rabbit talisman speed or just thunderclap you and KO you
  • We seriously have too many ways to beat you and to counter you with or without the SOL.

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@darkraiden: Alright - just got home from work not too long ago.

Debunking DR's Concerns/Plans/Strategies

There are several things that I'd like to discuss before explaining my strategy again in a clearer way for myself, you, and the voters. That is what I'll be doing in this section.

The Shard of Lightning

So the current question at hand & disagreement we're having here is that you believe that the SOL will stack onto Mister Terrific's already enhanced speed [ via Worldmind ] thus granting him movement speeds of 229,792,458 M/second^2 which would be 5.2 x 10^16 M/second.

I; however, believe that the SOL will not stack onto your speed nor has it even been shown to stack speeds - plus you don't even believe that it grants the user enhanced speed - but actually creates some sort of a "time slowing effect" as you've dubbed it that slows down everyone else around them.

So let's sort this out - because personally, I believe that I'm right.

Xialinpedia describes the effects of the SOL as follows: When this Shen Gong Wu is activated it allowed the user to move at the speed of light, but only for short periods of time. The user moved so fast that time appeared to freeze momentarily.

In the video that I linked in post #27 we were given a definition of the SOL's powers from Master Fung - who within the history of the show is a Xiaolin master who has plenty of experiencing working with and against the various Shen Gong Wu that his 'Dragon's in Training' would come in contact with during their exploits and adventures. It's safe to say that Master Fung would have a more accurate definition of the Shard than myself or you as he's the one that's canonically an expert.

Here's what Master Fung has to say about the effects of the SOL: As soon as the user brings forth the power of the Shard he can move so fast no one can see him, but the powers of the Shard only last as long as the flash of the lightning.

So once again - we're seeing that the "cap" of sorts for the Shard's abilities are Light Speed - not Light Speed (+) or Light Speed ^2.

However; just for good measure so we're clear that the Shard grants the user Light Speed Movement and is not in fact a weapon or artifact that slows down time or creates a "time bubble" we can observe what the Shard was described to do when it was first revealed.

Loading Video...

In the video the Shard is described to do the following: The Shard of Lightning is a most interesting Shen Gong Wu. It gives the user to travel at the Speed of Light, but only for short flashes of time.

So I think it can finally be concurred that the Shard of Lightning will only be granting you Light Speed - and within the parameters of the show combatants that used the Shard were not shown to be any more effective with it depending on their base speeds.

Jack Spicer isn't a particularly fast or agile combatant - but he was able to replicate the same speeds that Omi or any of the other Dragon Warriors were able to display. There is nothing here to suggest within the appearances of the Shard that it would stack Light Speed movement on top of what you've already got thus doubling your light speed - all the talk of it doing such is purely speculation on your part with no real facts to back it up.

Can TTBA prevent the Blitz?

You entire argument thus far has relied on Mister Terrific being able to out speed anyone and everyone via his Worldmind Amp & the Shard of Lightning - though I've just explained why I personally believe [ and why the facts state ] that adding the Shard of Lightning to Terrific's speed isn't doing him any favors - in fact it's taking up time to undergo those actions & that in turn is giving my team more time to setup our defenses.

I've got several different options here - and I'll lay them all on the table because there's no point in holding back. I've also got some questions/concerns that maybe you'll be able to answer for me.

First concern is this - you've been showing a whole lot of Travel Speed and not a lot of Combat Speed and the two are very very very different - seriously, just got look in a thread that involves Thor. The man's hammer allows him to move fast but his displays & reactions in combat are lacking. Anyways, I digress - the point is the one set of scans you've shown of Nova utilizing his speed in a Combat Scenario is one where it took a team of 5 Nova Corps members [ including Nova himself ] 1.86 seconds to combat a team of lackluster combatants with no significant speed advantages, I don't even believe the Serpent Society was fighting back - nope, they weren't, I just checked the scans.

So you're claiming that Mister Terrific is going to be able to dispose of my team & their held items via a blitz - but the combat speed that Nova shows is not even close to what you're claiming it to be ( 200 nanoseconds I believe ) and that just doesn't add up. You're truly over hyping the speed that Nova displays in combat by comparing it to the speed that he's shown in Travel.

Second concern is this - you discussed that I didn't counter your 'Time Dilation' which you're, once again, over hyping it's usefulness.

In the scans that you showed - which I'll post here for reference, Nova doesn't know if he's been flying for 5 weeks or for 5 minutes. He then states that he's actually been flying for both. Wait, what?!

Oh - wait, that makes perfect sense. See in REAL TIME and compared to everyone else - Nova has been flying for 5 weeks straight, however in NOVA TIME [ which is what I'm dubbing the time that Nova's biological clock is registering ] he's only been flying for 5 minutes. It's not that he can perform tasks that take 5 Weeks in the span of 5 minutes - it's just that during long trips the Worldmind/Nova Force is able to make it feel like it's only been 5 minutes, that way Nova isn't just awake for 5 weeks straight bored out of his mind.

So, what does this mean for me?

Nova's combat speed isn't close to what you're claiming it to be and Mister Terrific isn't going to be blitzing anyone here - it took 5 Nova Corps Members 1.86 seconds ( 1.84 if they didn't make any mistakes ) to bring down the Serpent Society ( who have no true combat feats nor are any of them proven to be "speedsters".

Also - this isn't an attempt at "lowballing" but to add to Nova's combat speed not being truly that impressive, he was thrashed by a base level Spider-Man.

Yep - that's right. Spider-Man was able to tag Nova in combat via his Web Shooters & hit him with some kicks/punches.

So to reiterate - Nova's combat speed is seemingly lackluster - and even if we're going with the scans that you showed earlier it took an entire TEAM of 5 experienced Nova Corps members 1.86 SECONDS [ not milliseconds or nanoseconds ] but SECONDS to beat a team of lackluster Serpent Society Members.

How can I prevent the blitz, then?

Well - Nova isn't blitzing at the speeds you're claiming he's gonna blitz - so I'll list my various options.

  1. Deathstroke has the Khaji-Da thus effectively granting him the same armor and abilities of the Blue Beetle known as Jamie Reyes so he's got physical enhancements in speed, reaction time, and the such from the get go. It also helps that the Scarab is able to act independently of it's wearer & is capable of scanning/interacting/overriding technology. It is fully possible for the Scarab to activate the Cold Field on his own - or create an energy shield on it's own to protect my team from a Blitz. I've already shown the scan where Blue Beetle created an energy shield that prevented Bart Allen from passing through via Speed Blitz or Vibrating his Molecules.
  2. Deadshot has more than enough time with his SOL enhanced speed to activate the Cold Field on his own - I did the math in my last post and I've shown in this post why your Mister Terrific/Nova isn't moving nearly as fast as you claim he is in this fight.
  3. My team also has object's that'll make them "immortal" as you state - though you're over hyping the durability of your team and I'll get into that later. We've got Spiderman with the Horse Talisman/Dog Talisman combo, Wolverine with his already OP healing factor combined with the 10 seconds of invincibility he's granted via the Mario Super Star, and Deathstroke with the Ebony Blade & Blue Scarab.
  4. Doctor Doom can just use his own force fields or redirect Black Panther's teleportation, since Doom is more proficient with his suit than Black Panther would be it makes sense that he'd be able to do so.
  5. Spider-Man has his Spider-Sense to alert him of danger before it occurs.
  6. Deadshot has the Helmet of Jong which is essentially the same thing as a Spider-Sense as it makes the wearer aware of attacks from any & all directions.

So there - in my books, it appears as if the blitz has been averted. We can argue this over and over - but if this is anything like our last debate then this fact should be left up to the voters because I'm a firm believer that my plan will prevent a blitz while you're dead set that you've got FTL speeds.

Black Panther in Doom's Suit vs Doom in Doom's Suit

So earlier you mentioned that NOBODY on my team was using Doom's suit - well, you're wrong about that.

Wait what? You have items that grant durability? Where? I don't see a gem of Cyttorak or anyone on your team actually USING Doom's armor so...that's wrong. Same with having a Moonstone or the Worldmind. You're kinda just making up stuff.

Doom is using Doom's armor and I've stated this PLENTY of times - I'm using the Rat Talisman on Doom's Armor to bring the armor to life with the personality and abilities intended by the creator - in this case that would be Doctor Doom.

I'm not going to post the videos unless you REALLY need to seem them - but I'll reference when the Rat Talisman was used & what it was used for.

Season 1 Episode 8 - Jade accidentally dropped the Rat Talisman on her Gnome Cop action figure thus bringing it to life with the full powers and abilities of 'Gnome Cop' which included his 'Belt Blaster' that was able to fire energy beams capable of melting metal and doing some serious damage.

Season 1 Episode 13 - The Rat Talisman was used to bring the statue of Shendu to life as the real and powerful Shendu.

Numerous Occasions - Jade has used the Rat Talisman on her 'Super Moose' doll in order to bring it to life to help her form the T-Troop.

Season 2 Episode 37 - Jade uses the Rat Talisman to bring the statue of Lo Pei to life.

So - if you're going to make claims that my Doom armor isn't being used by anyone when I've stated numerous times that Doctor Doom is using the Doom Armor due to the Rat Talisman bringing the Armor to life with the personality & abilities intended by the creator.

Doctor Doom in Doom's armor >>>>>> Black Panther in Doom's armor.

T-Spheres

I talked with HA about this and even though I'm incredibly peeved that you get 10 T-Spheres, he said that you do.

However; let me explain why I truthfully think that's entirely unfair - even though my team can defeat your team, T-Spheres or not.

You were given (10) T-Spheres without having to purchase them because they're "standard gear" for Mister Terrific even though they would cost ANY OTHER team in this tournament points, how many points you ask?

(7) points for FIVE T-Spheres. You were essentially given 14 Low Tier points for free - because that's how much it would cost any other team to obtain the T-Spheres that YOU start off with.

I think this is a faulty mechanic within the Tournament because you're already at an unfair advantage when it comes to equipment. Especially since we were only given 13 Low Tier points to start with.

Anyways - all complaining aside - you've got the T-Spheres even though you failed to include them within your equipment listing or in the OP and you didn't mention it in your intro post within your strategy - you didn't even list how many you had.

Next time - include these things so I know what I'm up against, okay?

Your team's "IMMORTALITY"

You've been throwing this term around - a lot, and you're using it VERY LOOSELY.

Let's examine each and every one of your team members to see exactly how "immortal" they are.

  • Mister Terrific - Holds the Horse Talisman which grants him a healing factor; however, due to the lack of Mister Terrific holding the Dog Talisman as well he is NOT granted immortality. He's about as "Immortal" as Deadpool or Wolverine.
  • Black Panther - Has no objects that grant immortality; however, he has Doom's armor which grants him some impressive force fields. Thankfully I have the same item & I've got a better combatant using it [ Doom himself ] so that should easily negate any and all plans that include Black Panther + Doom's armor.
  • Static Shock - The most powerful item that Static possesses is the Kree Moonstone, which, upon further investigating does NOT grant immortality nor does it heal him. He does have the Dog Talisman but since it is not combined with the Horse Talisman he is unable to heal from damage, thus his "immortality" is only from dying of old age and he is not protected from
  • Blade - Holds the Ebony Blade, thus granting him "immortality" as long as he holds it. The EB also grants the user an impressive healing factor but it is INCREDIBLY PAINFUL and if the sword is taken away from Blade he will lose all of it's perks & bonuses.
  • Afro Samurai - Holds the Ebony Blade + Nth Metal + New 52 Deathstroke's Gear, thus he has efficient healing factors and is immortal as long as he holds the Blade. If the Blade is stripped from him then he has impressive healing factors but is NOT immortal.
  • Black Dynamite - Holds the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak thus granting him effective "Immortality".

So out of the 6 members of your team only 3 of them are immortal due to their items - 2 of them draw their immortality from a sword in which would disappear if they were to be disarmed & 1 of them has effective immortality from physical attacks and cannot be "disarmed" per say but he can have his helmet taken off thus making him susceptible to Mental Attacks.

Truly you're overstating just how immortal and unstoppable your team actually is - especially after the above breakdown, mate.

Mewtwo's TK Abilities

So it's time I list all of Mewtwo's feats in terms of TK for both you and the voters to see. You took the gif that I posted and misread it entirely, possibly in an attempt to "Low Ball" Mewtwo. He didn't life a SINGLE Tauros - he lifted an entire HORDE of them.

Anyways - I'll be drawing Mewtwo's feats from the following film & I'll provide links to it.

First, the feat list for Pokemon: The First Movie

  • 2:20 - 2:43 - Mewtwo breaks free of his containment unit after his creation.
  • 4:08 - 5:30 - Mewtwo destroys the entire laboratory that he was created/being held in, quite the large explosion too.
  • 7:15 - 7:20 - Mewtwo tosses an Onix with no effort. A single Onix weighs 463 lbs or 210 kg.
  • 7:21 - 7:40 - Mewtwo lifts an entire group of Tauros with ease. There were 13 Tauros seen which would weigh 2535 lbs or a tad bit over 1 ton.
  • 7:46 - 7:51 - Mewtwo schools an Alakazam in both TP & TK. Alakazam is an incredibly powerful psychic in the Pokemon world.
  • 7:52 - 7:58 - Mewtwo completely stops an electrical blast from a Magneton, then sends it back at the Magneton and encases the Pokemon in it's own attack thus KO-ing it.
  • 8:00 - 8:10 - Mewtwo completely stops a charging Nidoking & Arcanine in their tracks & lifts them into the air. Their total weight is about 400 - 600 lbs.
  • 9:03 - 9:30 - Mewtwo destroys Giovanni's compound [ man he really hates compounds ] and his TK disintegrates wires.
  • 18:42 - 19:15 - Mewtwo creates a massive storm by just swirling his hand a bit. The amount of water he's controlling & manipulating here easily has the force of 10 - 20 Tons. Water is rather heavy in large volumes.
  • 20:00 - 20:10 - Turns out the storm that Mewtwo created is the worst storm they've ever seen in that location.
  • 23:18 - 23:30 - Mewtwo's TK created a GIANT tidal wave.
  • 28:05 - 28:30 - Well Mewtwo only created that storm to gather the toughest trainers, which were those who tried to power through the storm despite everyone's warnings against doing so.
  • 32:10 - 32:40 - Uses his mind control over Nurse Joy to psychically talk through her. He then easily lifts an arrogant trainer into the air and prevents him from moving, then while laughing he tosses him into a pool of water.
  • 32:47 - 33:03 - Mewtwo completely blocks & redirects a Hyper Beam fired from a Gyrados. When hit with the blast it sends Gyrados flying into the air and sends it backwards, it should be noted that Gyrados is huge and weighs 518 lbs so to simply swat him and his attack [ that has 120 base power in game mechanics and is such a powerful blast that it requires the user to recharge next turn ] is pretty fantastic for Mewtwo just toying around.
  • 38:20 - 38:34 - Mewtwo stops a charging Rhyhorn and flings it flying backwards without moving.
  • 41:07 - 41:20 - Mewtwo shields himself from Charizard's flamethrower - pretty easily if I might add.
  • 44:30 - 47:36 - The Infamous "Steal all your Pokemon" scene in which Mewtwo creates 100's of Pokeball's out of nowhere that can capture any Pokemon and sends them flying out in all directions, chasing all sorts of Pokemon. The fact that they can capture ANY Pokemon in 1 go is pretty impressive too.
  • 55:15 - 55:22 - Mewtwo sends out some Psychic Blasts that bring down entire sections of his facilities ceiling.
  • 55:23 - 55:30 - Mewtwo uses his psychics to block ALL of the special abilities that EVERY POKEMON in that facility has. There are easily 200 - 300 Pokemon there as there are 151 Pokemon in the original series and this scene features every version of Pokemon and a clone of them. The fact that Mewtwo is just blocking out their abilities WHILE he combats Mew in is phenomenal.
  • 1:02:30 - 1:03:40 - The blast from Mewtwo & Mew hits Ash and turns him into stone.
  • 1:07:10 - 1:08:03 - Mewtwo lifts himself and all the Pokemon he created/cloned into the air. There are several tons of weight between all those Pokemon & sustaining flight for that long is pretty impressive. Again, Mewtwo shows NO STRAIN.
  • 1:08:05 - 1:09:02 - Mewtwo teleports everyone and their Pokemon back to the Pokemon Center where they came from and wipes their minds of the events.

So there you have it - there is a BASE LEVEL Mewtwo & his TP/TK feats from the First Movie. I could get into his feats from Mewtwo Returns but I honestly feel like I've got enough going on right here.

However; Mewtwo has the Mento Intensifier ring to ENHANCE his psychic abilities further along with several other of the 10 Rings of Power to grant him some pretty fantastic abilities.

Plus, Ditto is morphing INTO Mewtwo and gaining his abilities at a reduced rate. Still - a total of 1.75 Mewtwo's with their TK abilities are impressive, and he can use those TK abilities against Blade & Afro to remove them of their Ebony Blades - even though they're strong, when you've got someone INSIDE YOU and CLAWING APART YOUR HEART it's going to be painful so I don't think they'll be entirely focused on keeping those swords - especially with them trying to deal with the Battle going on around them as well.

Your TK + Gravity based abilities vs Mine

So I originally said we've got similar items - I didn't say we had the EXACT SAME items and you don't have to get all into specifics about the items we don't have, you mentioned something about the Gem & the Moonstone.

Wait what? You have items that grant durability? Where? I don't see a gem of Cyttorak or anyone on your team actually USING Doom's armor so...that's wrong. Same with having a Moonstone or the Worldmind. You're kinda just making up stuff.

Ah - there it is, you accusing me of making things up. See I didn't say we had the exact same items but I stated I had items that granted me enhanced durability and/or immortality and/or invincibility too.

  • Deathstroke's got the Scarab & Ebony Blade. BB is able to go against foes such as Booster Gold and Green Lantern's in it, the suit is indeed durable and since he's got the EB he's got a rocking healing factor [ plus the healing factor the Scarab gives him and his own natural healing factor ] and is immortal.
  • Spider-Man is actually using the Talismans correctly, unlike you are, and has both the Horse and the Dog. The Dog talisman grants immortality while the horse grants healing - so he can't die. You made a mistake in your gear distribution and split those two talismans up.
  • Wolverine has his own INCREDIBLY FANTASTIC natural healing factor and the Mario Super Star which grants him invincibility and invulnerability from any & all damage for 10 seconds.
  • We've both got Doom Armor's - I've got Doom in mine & you have BP in yours.

Then we've got the TK battle - let's see how that stacks up against each other.

  • I've got Mewtwo & Ditto w/Mewtwo's powers + the Mento Intensifier Ring to enhance the OG Mewtwo's powers. They are legitimate telekinetics, you have no TK users on your team.
  • Black Panther has a Rooster Talisman to give him TK + Spider-Man has a Rooster Talisman to give him TK. It's not like your Talisman is any more powerful than mine.

You've also mentioned Gravity based attacks - let's see how we stack up there.

  • You've got the Kree Moonstone + Worldmind while I've got the Scarab [ can mess with gravitational pulls & magnetic polarities ] and the White Light Ring [ which was used to make Iron Man bury himself when he took a single step because of how the Mandarin manipulated Gravity to affect him ] so it's not like you've got any clear advantages there - plus the two people you have using gravity manipulation are Wolverine's first targets at the Heart Slashing + neither of them have Immortality or Invincibility.
  • You have the Scourge of Erynis and I've got the Plasmid known as Gravity Well - both of which draw in enemies to the center of a vortex. Yours manifests itself in the form of a 'Dark Void' while mine creates a Black Hole type vortex effect.

So, you're whole plan to "steal my items" isn't going to work out as you've planned, bud.

Conclusions from these Debunks

  • Nova's combat speed & travel speed are not the same. He will not be blitzing my team as fast as you claim he will be.
  • My team is going to be able to get their defenses up before you'll be able to "blitz" them.
  • My team's TK & Gravity is essentially equal to or possibly better than yours [ due to having 2 Mewtwo's ] and their TK is easily enough to take a sword out of a man's hand [ even if he is very strong ] after a tiny invincible angry Canadian with Adamantium Claws teleports into his heart and/or brain.
  • Doctor Doom > Black Panther - in terms of using the suit effectively. Plus due to the fact that the suit is taking on Doom's personality & abilities it should also get Doom's magic which will easily put him above Black Panther. It doesn't matter that BP has reverse engineered Doom's tech in the past, or that BP has UNLIMITED KNOWLEDGE when training with it. That 1 month we get isn't prep w/resources to use against the other team - it's only to train with our new found weapons and objects. BP isn't going to be making any enhancements or upgrades to the suit that puts his suit above Doom's.
  • Your team is not as 'Invincible' as you claim them to be.

How my team is Superior and can take down your team

Our Speed is equal here - you've got 2 SOL's and so do I, and they do NOT stack speed on top of each other. That concept is just silly and has literally NO proof to back it up, none at all.

My team is effectively preventing your blitz - and the Cold Field will continue to be active throughout the entirety of this fight.

My team has a mental link [ via Mewtwo ] while your team doesn't, so we've got the whole "communication" during the fight thing down pact.

You've got the Battle Computers + Crystal Glasses along with the Fountain of Hui and the Eagle Scope - but using some of those objects while in the middle of battle are going to make you a sitting duck [ especially the Fountain & Eagle Scope combo ] and you're using these objects as a plot device essentially.

Just because you can see into the future doesn't mean you have all the answers for the fight - once again I bring up a comparison. If we gave Bob, Agent of Hydra the Crystal Glasses and told him to fight Hulk he wouldn't stand a chance, even if he's predicting Hulk's moves he doesn't have the physical capabilities of stopping Hulk.

This goes hand in hand with the Wolverine Strategy - because you don't have anything that can stop him from killing Black Panther or Mister Terrific.

Speaking of which - here is the video displaying the Golden Tiger Claws.

In the video at 0:45 - 0:52 it is said that to operate the Golden Tiger Claws all one must do is "Say where you want to go - and the Claws take you there".

So - Wolverine just has to say where he wants to go [ or think it because Clay & Raymundo didn't say anything but made it to their destinations ] and he'll be able to go there.

As mentioned earlier - I'm a firm believer in the fact that Doom in Doom's armor is going to be more effective than BP in Doom's armor - so Deadshot should be able to make it into the Mirror World. You're trying to have Black Panther do like 7 different things at once during this battle and honestly I don't think he could focus on all of them.

Lady Shiva can also activate the Sapphire Dragon Shen Gong Wu that is immortal/invincible because you don't have it's weakness on your team nor do you have a means to obtain it's weakness. The cool thing about the Sapphire Dragon is that it turns it's foes into Sapphire & then controls them via magic - not telepathy or TK or anything.

The T-Masks on your team can be ripped off via Mewtwo's TK - so then Mewtwo can control those susceptible to attacks.

If Static tries to go intangible then Deathstroke will just hit him with the Scarab since it allows it's wearer to hit intangible foes.

Deathstroke can also remove your team of any metal objects/items they have via his Magnetism Field.

That's a possible way to disarm you of your Swords & of the Juggernaut Helmet.

Also - if anyone on your team tries to turn Invisible the Scarab can see them too.

Also - to counter your 'StarGates' even Richard Rider used that Star Gate as a FINAL OPTION - Mister Terrific isn't going to just use it right off the bat, even if he has Pre-Cog and knows my team is going to try to kill him [ see it's funny because since you opened the only reason my team is trying to kill yours & not maim them/KO them is because you're trying to kill us so thus you've created a sort of "paradox" type thing and we're only trying to kill you because you started it :p ] he wouldn't open up with a FINAL OPTION KILL MOVE right off the bat.

Mister Terrific is also a hero, with morals, and you're trying to play him off as a murderer - show me when he has been a murderer.

Anyways - this post is super long, I've debunked all of your comments/concerns and given why I think my team would win.

It's 2:06AM - I'm waking up at 6:45AM - I think it's time to hit the sack :P

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DarkRaiden

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#30  Edited By DarkRaiden

@thetruebarryallen:

1. Come on TTBA everyone knows how comicvine works. Statements are ....eh, while SHOWINGS and FEATS are what we take into account. So you have a STATEMENT backing your stance and I have a FEAT backing mine. I think mine is more credible. And you realize that Jack achieving the same "speed" as Omi and the rest is a fallacious statement as we'd have no way to tell. The speed of light and 2x the speed of light looks no different to us and nothing was ever stated. So that's 100% assumption.

So I need 2 things from you:

1. Answer the question. If Jack had ran instead of walked with the SOL would he have moved faster? Yes or no?Your answer to that question will answer who's right between us.

2. Read my strategy again. Everything I did from that point on was based on Nova/Terrific having only lightspeed via SOL, not lightspeed squared due to his own abilities. So your argument was useless.

2. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. About Nova. He states he's going hyperspeed which would be the complete opposite of what you've said. He's been flying for 5 minutes at high speed, but also 5 weeks to dodge asteroids, and yet it ALSO speeds up his mind so that the time in between isn't so long.

Oh wow, Spider-Man hit Nova? Welp, guess that means he's slower than DEADSHOT. Oh wait, no Spider-Man's also like 10-15x faster than Deadshot. Spider-Man's hit Silver Surfer and Firelord, and has dodged attacks at the speed of thought. We know Spider-Man has loads of PIS on his side, why lowball and use this?

So yeah Spidey's either faster than thought and heralds/nanosecond reaction time people like Surfer and Firelord OR it's PIS. You decide (the choice is obvious)

Ok, let's look at the Serpent Society feat, I said I'd count the words Nova thought, so I will. Nova thought approximately 222 words, flew by, punched somebody, and watched and observed the rest of his crew fight all in 1.86 seconds. That'd be a word every 0.008 seconds btw, which would make him WAAAAY faster than Deadshot. And seriously, how is flying by and taking down 5 people ONE by ONE in succession in 1.86 seconds not fast?

So again, Terrific with Nova powers is AT LEAST faster than Deadshot, that much is obvious. And whether it's 1 second or 100 milliseconds faster, when the SOL gives you lightspeed, nothing else matters. Hell, even normal Terrific is close to Deadshot in reaction times, adding Nova just makes him faster. You know who else is faster than Deadshot? Static, especially with the Moonstone. Static already has reaction speed to block Helicopter and Machine gun bullets, and Moonstone flies around in blurs of light and is fast enough to give a holding back Nova some trouble.

Plus, travel speed is VERY important when it comes to blitzing you. If I reach you (with both Static and Nova/Terrific and BP), before you activate anything, then I win. Simple as.

3. You can't counter the blitz because it's at lightspeed. So none of that works. Doom can't counter ANYTHING because

A. He's not in this match

B. It takes at least a second to use the rat talisman on the armor.

If we're blitzing at lightspeed, you don't get time to do that. Armor and w/e from the Blue Scarab is fine, but you need time to do that, and it won't hold up to a Juggernaut punch or a hit from the claw of Horus. Spider-Sense and Helmet of Jong are negated by a lightspeed blitz. Hell, you even agreed that travel speed is high (hemisphere in seconds, interstellar travel, etc. which is MFTL) which means that none of that will help you before we attack. Add on things like the Crystal Glasses that tell the future and Battle Computers which pretty much do the same and your spider senses are reduced to nothing. Plus literally as soon as Blade gets near your team, everyone forgets everything and are easily taken out.

I'm a bit confused at your last sentence. You acknowledged that my travel speed is FTL right? Just that my combat speed isn't (despite evidence against it)? And a blitz with travel speed+pre-cog would be very accurate, so how would you defend against that?

4. I meant a real person. It's not actually Doom, it's the equivalent of a Doombot aka animated armor. I already covered how the Ebony Blade and Nth Metal could easily cut through the magic and de-animate the suit. All I meant was that no one physically was using the armor, no need to get defensive (get it? defensive?). I know how said Talisman works.

And they'll use it the same because BP will know everything there is to know about the suit due to intelligence+ fountain of infinite knowledge. In fact, BP might use it better since for some reason Doom fails to actually use his forcefield and the various tech built into his suit like 95% of the time.

5. I didn't list T-Spheres same way I didn't list BP's armor and gadgets that he has under and with Doom's suit, same way I didn't list Afro Samurai's normal swords, and Blade's ranged weaponry. It's standard gear. Only standard gear I named was when I gave it to someone else (Adamantium blades from....Blade). My bad though. I assumed you knew

6. Don't think I claimed Terrific or BP were immortal, just had good defenses. Though Terrific would be in a way since the Worldmind keeps him alive through serious damage, and the Horse Talisman would just heal the damage. Static's immortal and invulnerable because that's what the Dog talisman shows and what's in the official description/powers of it. You still feel pain, but you don't die. Plus I think the Moonstone gives a healing factor, not sure. I mean Terrific could just heal him with the Horse Talisman anyways, so it doesn't really matter. Also you're forgetting Blade's great healing factor in your list. Just saying.

7. Blade's used to Pain, and has kept fighting when all the bones in his body were broken. Pain won't do much to him. Those TK feats are cool, but ultimately do nothing as they can't overpower Anyone on my team and take their equipment. Not to mention, if you're in range, Blade just activates Wushun Geyser and you forget everything. Ever. And I kinda doubt Wolverine will be able to use Golden Claws on Afro considering he has an Nth Metal belt and that cancels magic ergo the Golden Claws.

Also You've yet to prove the Golden Claws can port inside somebody. I still need proof for that.

8. Don't take it so serious. I knew what you meant, just wanted to poke fun because you said something about durability and whatnot when you don't actually have any items that raise your durability the same way mine does.

9. Um...Wolverine can try to target Static, but he is ultimately immortal. Also with the healing factor from the Horse Talisman and Worldmind, a small Wolverine won't do much to Terrific. Also, still waiting on the proof that he can do that.

10. Stealing your items works just fine. We have people who move vastly faster than yours. Activating the SOL or just blitzing you and taking your items will work great. Still haven't seen a counter. IN fact, you said my travel speed was high and admitted it.

Countering your 'Superiority'

1. You already noted how fast Nova travels. Even if Terrific didn't have the time dilation of the worldmind, and the combat speed I've proven, Crystal Glasses provide everything he needs to steer correctly, especially combined with the Worldmind. Add in Static, BP immediately teleporting to your location, and the super speed my team has, and we do in fact blitz. Plus the SHOWINGS and FEATS of SOL support my theory of stacking. You still have to answer that question btw about Jack running or walking. Oh and I've already proven that even WITH your theory of not stacking, Terrific AND Static are both much quicker on the draw than Deadshot.

2. Cold Field doesn't stop TK or Scourge of Erynis or Gravity or Magnetism so it's pretty useless.

3. Mental link takes time. But we move faster than thought so...also T-Spheres provide communication

4. Fountain of Hui and Eagle Scope are mostly being used during the 1 month training to completely know any and everything we want to know. Not during battle.

5. PROVE IT. Show Golden Claws going inside of someone's body. That's a someone not a somewhere. And Doom won't have his magic AT ALL. That's ridiculous. I'd like you top prove that the talisman can give the vast magical powers of Doom to an object. If anything, it'd be animated as a doombot aka tech, no magic.

6. I'd need proof that Mewtwo can rip off something that's bonded to someone's face and woven in as nanofibers or w/e T-Spheres do. Also he'd have to know to do that, and he has no knowledge on what T-Spheres/T-Masks do. THen add in that even a T-Sphere not connected STILL protects from TP and that'd just be useless. Sapphire Dragon is useless because Nth Metal and Ebony Blade>Magic, Cyttorak aka Gem/Juggernaut>Sapphire Dragon magic, Emperor Scorpion and/or Reversing Mirror>Sapphire Dragon, and we all have super speed one way or another.

7. Deathstroke can try to hit Static, but Static's waaay faster than him, has forcefields, and teammates that know everything Deathstroke can do so....basically he'll already know he can hit intangible people. And Static's main reason to go intangible is to either take stuff out of your body or so Wolverine can't hurt him while he's inside of his body. Nothing else.

And Static ALSO has magnetism so...that's not working. Ebony Blades also aren't confirmed metal in any way, and again Deathstroke knows nothing about Juggernaut's helmet and has no reason to try it.

8. I need you to show Terrific's 'great' morals or w/e because he hasn't displayed them. And no, you said from the start that your team was gonna do the Wolverine strategy of trying to straight up murder us from the inside. Terrific knows that and will use the Stargate to utterly annihilate your team.

So

Summary

  • With or without the 'stacked' speed of SOL, we blitz due to Terrific/Nova and Static/Moonstone and even Blade and BP and Black Dynamite and Afro, etc. all being much faster than Deadshot. Even being a half a second faster means the end when moving at lightspeed.
  • Evidence actually points to SOL stacking as I've shown and you still have to answer my question about Jack running or walking
  • Mewtwo's TK feats are greatly lacking to try and disarm any of my team
  • TK and Gravity and magic and magnetism can bypass the Cold Field
  • No proof that Golden Claws or Rat Talisman can do what you say it can do
  • TP doesn't work due to T-Spheres
  • Even if Golden Claws had proof, Wolverine can't kill anyone since we're immortal, heal, can turn intangible,e tc. and see the future
  • No answer to Terrific/Nova or Static/Moonstone straight up blitzing your team with pure movement speed+pre-cog
  • No answer to Scourge of Erynis spam
  • Sapphire Dragon is rendered useless due to all the magic counters and SGW counters we have
  • Overall you lose and die to a multi-layered plan. We're faster than you with or without SOL and will activate it before you. We have more powerful items and members of our team. We have planet busters and planet buster durability level people, we have TP defense, we have immortal people, and of course the Stargate to take you out.
  • Essentially, you lose in the first second due to SOL, and/or speed blitz. And even if that was avoided, we'd still win the head up matchup.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@darkraiden: You gonna be ready for voting soon - because this is just going back & forth with you not believing what I'm saying, me saying it more & adding even more proof, then you requesting that I add MORE proof because you still don't believe me. Last time this happened we just jumped into voting & we let them decide who was right.

Counters & Responses

1. The Shard of Lightning Debacle

Alright - just like I did with Mewtwo I'm going to link to some videos & then list the feats or "proof" related to the Shard of Lightning.

The first video is - Xiaolin Showdown [ Season 2 // Episode 3 ] - The Shard of Lightning

  • 3:08 - 3:26 - Master Fung and Dojo [ the shape-shifting dragon who can sense Shen Gong Wu AND served alongside Grand Master Dashi when he used the Shen Gong Wu to imprison Wuya 1,500 years ago ] announce that one of the Shen Gong Wu has revealed itself. Master Fung then pulls out the Ancient Scroll of the Shen Gong Wu and describes that the Shard of Lightning allows the user to move at Light Speed but only for short periods of time.
  • 7:17 - 7:22 - Robot Jack Spicer obtains the Shard of Lightning and [ possibly ] uses it without saying it's name and quickly moves onto a mountain ledge. Raymundo remarks with "How'd you get up there so fast?" thus complimenting Robot Jacks' newfound speed via the Shard or the base level speed of Robot Jack.
  • 9:37 - 9:50 - The Mantis Flip Coin and Serpent's Tail that were being used by Clay & Kimiko disappear into thin air with the two Dragon Warriors wondering where they went - this is the work of Jack Spicer + Robot Jack Spicer with the abilities of the Shard of Lightning.
  • 9:59 - 11:05 - We see everything as Jack & Robot Jack see things, essentially at a stand still because they're moving so fast. In all honesty you keep stating that this is a time bubble or a time freeze - but they're just moving so quickly that time seems frozen. This is like the fight between Wally West & Zoom where Superman appears to be a statue because they're moving so quickly, Superman isn't actually a statue but in comparison to those two & their Speed at the time he was. This is the same sort of situation - everyone and everything else is so slow that it is essentially "frozen" - but if there was someone else moving at Light Speed [ such as Robot Jack in comparison to Jack ] then they would move about normally.
  • 11:15 - 11:41 - Jack and Robot Jack disappear in a flash of light after announcing that they're going to steal all of the Shen Gong Wu then they reappear seconds later with all the Wu in hand. During the period of time that Jack and Robot Jack were gone Omi and the rest of the crew were still moving normally & talking fine - they were not "frozen" in a "time bubble".
  • 16:45 - 18:00 - During the Showdown Trio, Human Jack uses the Shard of Lightning to move at speeds so quick that he appears to teleport behind Robot Jack and then teleport in front of him again but holding his newly removed head.
  • 19:40 - 20:02 - The Dragon Warriors use the Shard of Lightning to speed up their chore process - you'll notice that Master Fung walks in while they're doing such so he too isn't "frozen" in time while the Shard is being used.

Come on TTBA everyone knows how comicvine works. Statements are ....eh, while SHOWINGS and FEATS are what we take into account. So you have a STATEMENT backing your stance and I have a FEAT backing mine. I think mine is more credible. And you realize that Jack achieving the same "speed" as Omi and the rest is a fallacious statement as we'd have no way to tell. The speed of light and 2x the speed of light looks no different to us and nothing was ever stated. So that's 100% assumption.

I know how CV works - I know how debates work, I've been in many.

I have several statements that all are saying the Shard of Lightning does the same thing - then I've explained what the feat truly is showing while you're trying to tailor it to your own need/usage and you're mislabeling it like you've done with several of your "feats" for this fight. Also you've been blaming me of assuming things this entire time yet you haven't shown anything as proof to support 80-90% of your arguments, you've just been throwing out accusations and claiming you can do things - then when I correct you I get asked to "prove" my side of the story and if I can't reach your exact desire for what you want then I'm labeled as 100% wrong without any true test or proof that what you're saying is true.

The speed does not stack on top of your own base speed - the limit with the SOL is the Speed of Light and it will not multiply your speed to reach an excess and it never has within the restraints of the show - so you claiming that it can multiply or stack your speed is the only thing here that is 100% assumption.

Answer the question. If Jack had ran instead of walked with the SOL would he have moved faster? Yes or no?Your answer to that question will answer who's right between us.

He wouldn't have moved any faster if he was running or walking - if your maximum speed for movement is the Speed of Light it doesn't matter how you reach that speed be it walking or running or jogging or crawling or whatever other forms of bodily locomotion you can come up with.

The Speed of Light is the Speed of Light - if you have one person walking at the Speed of Light and one person running a the Speed of Light then they're both moving the same speed regardless of how they're achieving it - so no, Jack would not have moved FTL if he had been running because the maximum speed with the Shard is that of the Speed of Light and nothing higher.

Read my strategy again. Everything I did from that point on was based on Nova/Terrific having only lightspeed via SOL, not lightspeed squared due to his own abilities. So your argument was useless.

My argument wasn't useless - you're just failing to accept anything I've brought up as true - and if that's how you're going be about it then fine, we'll let the voters decide. I know you're incredibly confident in your strategies & your team - the last time we debated and I was winning in the votes you were telling me that the voters only were voting for me due to pity and that your superior logic and planning was the true victor and that you were still 110% even after you lost the battle. Maybe you've changed since our last debate but so far you haven't accepted much of anything I've said even though I've been backing my argument with tons and tons of proof, man.

Nova's Flight - 5 minutes or 5 weeks?

Alright - let's get to the bottom of this shall we. Now I'm not trying to accuse you of anything but the last time you 'explained' a scan to me regarding Nova was when you were describing the Serpent Society fight and you flubbed that up - claiming that the Nova Corps could've done what they did in .02 seconds when in actuality they were saying they could have done it in .02 seconds less than their actual time which was subtracting .02 from 1.86 thus making their best completion time a total of 1.84 seconds.

So the two scans above are the scans in question.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. About Nova. He states he's going hyperspeed which would be the complete opposite of what you've said. He's been flying for 5 minutes at high speed, but also 5 weeks to dodge asteroids, and yet it ALSO speeds up his mind so that the time in between isn't so long.

The above is what you've told me is going on in the scans - unless what you mean is in actuality he's only been flying for 5 minutes but it seems like 5 weeks for Nova because he has to mentally be slowed down so he can actually react to asteroids & whatnot.

Anyways - if that's the case then you could've explained it better - but that scan doesn't do anything much to help your argument or boost your "correctness" about the outcome of this fight because you've failed to show any significant feats of Sam Alexander Nova [ the one you're essentially equal to ] using his speed in Combat or blitzing someone.

Ok, let's look at the Serpent Society feat, I said I'd count the words Nova thought, so I will. Nova thought approximately 222 words, flew by, punched somebody, and watched and observed the rest of his crew fight all in 1.86 seconds. That'd be a word every 0.008 seconds btw, which would make him WAAAAY faster than Deadshot. And seriously, how is flying by and taking down 5 people ONE by ONE in succession in 1.86 seconds not fast?

Taking 5 people down 1 by 1 in succession in 1.86 seconds isn't fast when you're telling me that he's going to be able to do it to a team larger and far more durable than the Serpent Society. You're telling me that the first thing Mister Terrific is going to do is grab the Shard of Lightning and then use the Crystal Glasses to look into the future to "locate" my team but the Glasses aren't going to give you the exact coordinates of my team - nor does Mister Terrific know anything about Avenger's tower so he wouldn't know where they were in the first place.

My team can evade the blitz with the Cold Field - and Wolverine is Invincible for the first 10 seconds of this fight to begin with, there is nothing your team can do to him because of the Mario Super Star.

Did I lowball Nova?

Well - if I did I told you I wasn't doing it intentionally.

Oh wow, Spider-Man hit Nova? Welp, guess that means he's slower than DEADSHOT. Oh wait, no Spider-Man's also like 10-15x faster than Deadshot. Spider-Man's hit Silver Surfer and Firelord, and has dodged attacks at the speed of thought. We know Spider-Man has loads of PIS on his side, why lowball and use this?

I didn't conclude any of the things you're saying from that scan - what I was stating was that Nova's combat speed didn't seem that impressive and I used THAT set of scans because it involved a character that was on my team so I figured it was relevant. I actually got those scans from the CV Nova Respect Thread, I wasn't trying to claim that Spider-Man was going to be using PIS to defeat your team.

Doctor Doom Enters the Fray via Rat Talisman

Alright - let's see what you've said about this.

No proof that Golden Claws or Rat Talisman can do what you say it can do

So giving you a list of times the Rat Talisman was used to do to other objects what I'm saying it'll do to Doom's armor isn't proof?

Time to link to another episode because I despise putting videos directly in my posts. The video is Jackie Chan Adventures [ Season 2 // Episode 37 ] - The Warrior Incarnate.

  • 6:17 - 7:30 - Jade uses the Rat Talisman to bring the Statue of Lo Pei to life. The statue becomes flesh and blood and is the actual Lo Pei because the statue resembled Lo Pei. Lo Pei then shows that he has knowledge of the talisman and retains his memories from when his actual self was truly alive - eventually he learns from Jade where the other talismans are and uses magic to blow open the protective doors of Section 13.
  • 7:40 - 8:04 - Le Pei uses his belt to store the Talismans that were being held at/in Section 13. The Talismans are drawn towards the empty sockets within the belt via magic.
  • 8:08 - 8:13 - Lo Pei uses magic to immobilize two Section 13 agents.
  • 8:25 - 8:35 - Lo Pei uses magic to blow a hole in the roof of Section 13 and escapes.
  • 10:06 - 10:10 - Lo Pei can be seen flying using one of his magical scrolls - not one of the Talismans.
  • 10:50 - 11:10 - Lo Pei informs Jackie that he does indeed remember where he placed the other Talismans that are still missing/hidden and then tells Jackie that this is knowledge he shall never possess before blasting him with one of his Energy Scrolls.

Look - I can go and grab more from this episode if you need me to - but what we're seeing is a Stone Statue of Lo Pei being brought to life by the Rat Talisman and possessing the knowledge, skills, and magical abilities of the actual Lo Pei. To tell me that this isn't proof that when the Doom Armor is brought to life via the Rat Talisman that it will not possess the knowledge, skills, and magical abilities of the actual Doctor Doom is just ridiculous.

Also - as far as it taking 1 second to place the Talisman within the armor, I've talked with High Accuser & just like Mister Terrific is obtaining powers via the Worldmind - the Doom Armor is starting the fight with the Talisman activated thus, Doctor Doom is there from the start of the fight until the end of the fight.

The Golden Tiger Claws

So - I don't understand what you're failing to understand about the Golden Tiger Claws, but once again I'll link to a video in which the Golden Tiger Claws were used, describe the feats & include the time marks of where to view said feats, and then explain why that means they can work like I'm saying they can.

The video is Xiaolin Showdown [ Season 1 // Episode 3 ] - Tangled Web.

  • 9:48 - 10:20 - Wuya senses the Golden Tiger Claws and explains to Jack that with them the user can travel to any location they desire.

The next video is Xiaolin Showdown [ Season 1 // Episode 12 ] - Mala Mala Jong

  • 18:10 - 19:10 - While Mala Mala Jong is dominating the 4 Dragon Warriors and stealing all of their Shen Gong Wu and making it a part of him, Omi is using the Serpents Tail to get the Golden Tiger Claws from the Center of the Earth. Once the Golden Tiger Claws are obtained it shows Omi teleporting then cuts back to the Mala Mala Jong fight where Mala Mala Jong is wailing out in pain while clutching his chest. It turns out that Omi used the claws to teleport into his chest and removed the Heart of Jong thus rendering Mala Mala Jong back into the form of inanimate Shen Gong Wu. The point here is that you've been asking me to prove that the Golden Tiger Claws can teleport your inside of someone - and they can. As Clay states - they can even teleport you inside of a raging monsters chest.

So if at this point you're still telling me that they're not capable of doing what I've been claiming they're capable of doing this entire fight then so be it - but I've given you EXACTLY what you've asked for on this one.

Mister Terrific - Morals & Reaction Times

I'm asking for proof from you - Mister Terrific is YOUR character and you haven't done anything to show or prove that he would be willing to kill anyone at the start of this fight by opening a Stargate in the middle of the Battle Field & BFR'ing them into the Sun.

I actually think that goes against the rules - no win by BFR - yep, just checked the OP from the main thread of the tournament.

No Caption Provided

You cannot BFR my team to the Sun for an insta-kill, bro.

As for Mister Terrific's reaction times - are you seriously trying to tell me that Mister Terrific w/o the Worldmind is capable of the same reaction feats that Deadshot has?

We see Deadshot reacting to & tracking Captain Boomerang II [ Owen Mercer ] who is granted super speed through some unknown force, though it is likely that he is connected to the Speed Force. Captain Boomerang II showed speeds capable of defeating a Jay Garrick clone, the clone had all of Garrick's speed but Captain Boomerang II still beat the clone.

The fact that Deadshot can keep an eye on Boomer the entire time and then place his gun right under his chin thus essentially "killing" Boomer if Deadshot was planning on taking the shot.

The other two scans show Deadshot killing some speedster - reacting to her pattern & shooting her where it hurts.

So now I ask you for things - what gives you the idea that Mister Terrific at BASE is on par with Deadshot at BASE?

Why your 'Blitz' doesn't work.

So this is you're one big argument - it's the one thing you keep claiming that will win the battle for you, I'm amazed you've responded to my posts as much as you have because you're pretty dead set that no matter WHAT I do you'll be able to 'blitz' me.

Let's take a look at this scenario, alright?

You're at the top of the Avenger's Tower - a location that Mister Terrific has no knowledge of to begin with and I don't recall the Worldmind having any in depth knowledge or a vast database about the schematics and layouts of the Tower.

The Tower itself isn't 20 stories like you've claimed it is, it's 93 stories - I don't know where you got the idea that the entire Avenger's Tower was only 20 stories tall. Note that this measurement is without the additional watchtower that you're located in, so you're farther away than 93 stories.

Also the rules state that the Tower itself is indestructible - I assume this means that we won't be able to blast through the walls or go outside of the Tower or break through windows or anything - the Tower is indestructible and there is nothing we can do about that, so Terrific won't just be blitzing through the floors flying downwards at ridiculous speeds.

I just don't see you getting to me as fast as you think you are - we've both got SOL's, we've both got Doom Armor for teleportation purposes and I've even got the Golden Tiger Claws for additional teleportation - plus the only truly invincible person in this situation is Wolverine because Mister Terrific and Black Panther are the two combatant's that you're having rush ahead & combat my team in the blitz attempt.

I don't see the blitz happening - I've got force fields from Blue Beetle, Doctor Doom, and Mewtwo via TK - and the Cold Field from the Cold Gun. You have no way of getting through that with Mister Terrific or Black Panther - and even if you somehow did it would take up your time thus allowing my team to easily activate their SOL's thus putting us on the same speed.

So no - you won't be blitzing my team & you've made some silly claims throughout this debate. Now that I've gone through and gone over the things about my own plan you had in question I'm going to make a final/semi-final post about my plans overall strategy & why it works better/is more effective than yours - along with asking you to prove some of your own claims.

TTBA's Battle Plan

I'm going to post two different situations here - one is if the voters believe that you WILL be able to blitz me - the other is if voters DON'T believe that you'll be able to blitz me.

I'll end this entire post with things I want YOU to prove to me - because you've done a lot of over-hyping without any actual proof or fact that you could do some of the things you're stating you can.

Battle Scenario Number One - Team TTBA Get's Blitzed

So you're very adamant on the fact that you believe you'll be blitzing my entire team - let's think of a scenario in which Deadshot isn't able to activate his Cold Field & where my team get's attacked by Mister Terrific & Black Panther - and eventually the rest of your team.

1. Mister Terrific & Black Panther activate their SOL & then use the Crystal Glasses to locate my team [ though they don't know who they're up against so I don't understand how they'd be able to pinpoint this 'future' but w/e ] and once they've done that they attack my team.

The following is a list of my team members that can endure the attacks you're dishing out:

  • Deathstroke - The Scarab grants him increased durability and an increased healing factor. The Ebony Blade grants him Immortality & an Enhanced Healing Factor
  • Doctor Doom - Doom's personal force fields would prevent him from sustaining any damage, if for some reason the fields were breached the armor itself has the durability to withstand point blank atomic grenade detentions.
  • Spider-Man - He's got the Horse + Dog Talisman's combined with the strength and durability granted by the Ox coupled onto his already incredibly high durability.
  • Wolverine - He's got Invincibility for the first 10 seconds of this fight due to the Mario Super Star plus his healing factor is already incredible.
  • Lady Shiva - The Witchblade grants her a protective suit of armor along with an accelerated healing factor and the ability to resurrect the wearer from death.
  • Sapphire Dragon - Mister Terrific & Black Panther don't have the ability to bring down the Sapphire Dragon with the items they have.

Winter Soldier, Mewtwo, Ditto, and Deadshot would probably fall due to them not having enhanced durability from their items. Mewtwo and Ditto MIGHT be able to withstand it because Pokemon have withstood some very damaging attacks in the past and with Mewtwo being the most powerful Pokemon in existence & Ditto being an amorphous blob he could probably take the hits; however, for the sake of a minimalist team going up against yours in this scenario I'll go with the ones I know 110% would survive the initial assault.

2. Doom survives the initial impacts & creates a force field around the surviving members of my team & the team members that you killed in your initial attack - my team then quickly gathers & uses the Shard of Lightning that Wolverine holds to grant themselves Light Speed movement.

If you don't believe that Doom could create a force field around my team he'll just create force fields around Black Panther & Nova.

No Caption Provided

Anyways - with my team protected from Terrific/Nova & BP they'll begin the next phases of their plan.

Spider-Man will use the Horse Talisman to revive the dead members of my team - Deadshot, Mewtwo, Ditto, and Winter Soldier. The Horse Talisman was able to repair an entirely broken statue and heal practically any injury - it won't have a problem reviving my dead team members. If that is too far fetched then the Witchblade also has shown the ability to reanimate the dead.

With my team back in full force it'll be time to bring your team down - not in a head on assault, but through some key strategy & eliminating your most powerful + essential members first.

3. The rest of your team will have made it to the location where my team is at by now - so it'll be a full fledged battle. With the pacing that this is all taking place at I feel like Wolverine's 10 seconds of invincibility won't be up yet - he probably has 2 or 3 seconds left with it - and moving at light speed that'll be all he needs.

Wolverine will shrink himself with the Pym Particles & then teleport inside the heart + then brain of Nova/Terrific - this'll temporarily KO Nova/Terrific & Mewtwo will use his TK [ TK is not TP - it doesn't mater that you're immune to TP as Mewtwo isn't trying to read your mind here, he's just using psychic energy in a physical form to interact with the real world ] in an attempt to disarm Terrific of his Talismans & the Worldmind Helmet.

This attack should render Terrific dead - as without the Horse Talisman he cannot heal.

Wolverine will then jump from Terrific into Black Panther - Doom should be able to temporarily shut down BP's suit as Doom is superior with his technology in comparison to Black Panther.

Heck - Doom even beat a future version of himself.

I honestly see nothing to suggest that BP would be better in Doom's armor than Doom would be - nothing at all, considering that Doom beat Doom because Doom is better at being Doom. Man, that sounds confusing.

While all of this is going on Winter Soldier, Deadshot, Spider-Man, Lady Shiva, and the Sapphire Dragon will be working to distract your team via webs, Adamantium Ammo, Mirror World Duplicates, the such - if anyone on my team falls during this encounter then they will be revived with the Horse Talisman since my team now holds two of them.

At this point in time your team has lost Terrific & Black Panther.

4. Doctor Doom will use a holding spell on Blade like he's done before.

No Caption Provided

Spider-Man can use his webbing to take the Ebony Blade from Blade's hand - or Deadshot could bathe his arm in Absolute Zero from the Cold Gun & then shatter it so he isn't holding the Blade any long thus allowing Winter Soldier to pelt him with Adamantium bullets.

Deathstroke will be combating Static - and the Sapphire Dragon can help him along with Lady Shiva.

If Static goes intangible then Deathstroke can just adapt and harm Static - Static doesn't have any way to "predict" attacks or see into the future so he won't be able to evade like the other members on your team.

With them going after Static - the rest of my team will go after Afro & Black Dynamite.

Mewtwo will use his TK to remove Dynamites Helmet thus making him susceptible to a mind assault from either Doom via Ovid Mind Transfer or Mewtwo/Ditto from TP.

If Dynamite has a T-Mask then Mewtwo will rip it off via TK or Spider-Man will use his webbing to tag it & tear it off.

Wolverine will port into Static if he isn't intangible & tear up his heart - then he'll do the same to Dynamite & then Afro.

You talk about your team being able to rolfstomp mine but I don't see that happening - I've got more numbers, more options, and superior abilities. You may have me beat in raw physical power - but that's not all it takes to win a fight.

Battle Scenario Number Two - Team TTBA doesn't get Blitzed

This is honestly pretty much the same scenario as above but Spider-Man doesn't have to revive any of my team members.

I don't see a need to change anything up when I've got you beat in the majority of the fields of this battle.

Conclusions

  • My team can & will prevent your blitz via Doom's Force Fields, Blue Beetles Force Fields, or the Cold Field. If not I've shown they can still beat you.
  • There is no evidence to suggest that the SOL will stack your speed - give me proof that it would, don't ask me for proof that it wouldn't, though I've shown that it wouldn't.
  • Mewtwo's TK feats are not generally lacking - plus he's got a power ring that enhances his TK abilities and Ditto will be turning into Mewtwo so you've pretty much got two Mewtwos going against you in the TK department. Spider-Man also has TK via the Rooster Talisman and Blue Beetle's Scarab has shown control over Magnetism as has Doom. Deadshot has the Gravity Well Plasmid which is a direct counter for BP's Scourge of Erynis - plus the Scourge of Erynis doesn't destroy objects or items.
  • There is proof that the Golden Tiger Claws and the Rat Talisman do EXACTLY what I say they do.
  • TP doesn't effect your team due to T-Spheres but TK still does.
  • My team has means of disarming your team or KO-ing them long enough to disarm them to put them down for good. Seeing the future doesn't prevent your death - you're acting like the Crystal Glasses + Battle Computer make this an automatic win for you.
  • The Sapphire Dragon is not rendered useless due to all the magic counters and SGW counters you have - I have some of the same counters for your magical items. At the least the Sapphire Dragon is a distraction for your team.
  • You're not going to be able to use the Stargate to take me out - that's against the rules and I've PM'ed HA about it. He actually stated you couldn't do that even if it wasn't against the rules. You misrepresent your team hardcore, man.

What I ask you to Prove

  • Show me feats of Nova's combat speed that makes him any more effective than my team members, because he isn't.
  • Prove that the Scourge of Erynis is as unstoppable and as powerful as you make it seem. Kratos used it against fodder characters & it is unable to shatter objects such as armor & shields. The majority of my team has healing factors/items that grant healing factors so the damage that's done to their "life points" wouldn't be permanent. Your Scourge is just as effective as my Gravity Well.
  • Prove that BP would be better than Doom with his own suit - considering Doom took out a future version of himself who had a suit that was just as - if not even more, powerful.

Anyways - this is a long post, and I'm getting a tad tired of this debate because you're unwilling to admit to areas that my team has clear advantages. I'm glad you believe you can win this but I personally feel your team is outmatched & it doesn't help that you've been overhyping the abilities of some of your team members, man.

I'll be ready for voting soon - maybe after your next post we can both make closing remarks & leave our fates to the voters.

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DarkRaiden

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#32  Edited By DarkRaiden

@thetruebarryallen:

1. Oh, so you actually think him walking and running would move at the same speed? That makes no sense, but you're welcome to your interpretation. It wasn't a big part of my plans regardless so w/e. I am surprised though.

The nova scans I thought would be obvious since he's traveled to the Sun and back in less than a day/few hours and has traveled entire hemispheres in seconds. Just thought it'd be obvious which was the 5 minutes and which was the 5 weeks.

Now here's why that scan DOES help my argument. It shows that worldmind can speed up his reaction time to the point that 5 minutes seems like 5 weeks. That would, of course, allow me to activate the SOL far quicker than you would and thus blitz and easily win the match.

Serpent Society Feat

Taking 5 people down in succession in 1.84 seconds is only impressive because of how fast they reacted and nothing else. I didn't say your team would be taken down in the same time with the same moves. Just pointing out that Nova/Terrific have faster reactions than Deadshot and your team. This is the combat speed feat you were looking for btw.

Wolverine

As for Wolverine, I'm pretty sure he has to react and actually ACTIVATE the star like any other item, but I could be wrong. Either way he's useless here, invincible or not.

Nova Combat feats:

Nova fighting someone of gladiator's race head up (known to have nanosecond reaction times)

Sam doing well against the Chitauri fleet (moving fast in combat), blitzing doom, Nova(Rich) dodging Drax with ease and putting him to sleep, and Nova movign slightly fast, way out in the atmosphere before the Helicopter and pilot can react.

Also if you read Nova 17, he clearly flies to the sun, thinks for 45 minutes, and is back before it's time to go to school. So he's very fast.

Doctor Doom and the Rat Talisman

I've seen the feats, I know what it does, but you're operating off of a NLF, No Limits Fallacy. The Rat Talisman has NEVER revived/animated anything with the power of Doctor Doom. To assume it can is baseless in every way. That's like saying if you make a statue of Living Tribunal or Galactus, that the Rat Talisman would give them their true powers. It's just too unsubstantiated and NLF to agree with.

Golden Claws and Wolverine

Now surely we both know the difference between teleporting to not only a place Omi can see, but the place of a monster/collection of items over a HUMAN BODY. There's a big, big difference. Forcefield still hasn't been addressed. And you forget, both BP and Terrific have anti-SGW items, Reversing mirror and Emperor Scorpion, so we can stop anything you might do (and we know what you're gonna do thanks to Crystal Glasses). At best, Shiva might retrieve your Golden Claws, but Wolverine will lose them, and the strategy is done. Not sure what reversing mirror would do to them, but I know it'd stop the strategy.

Mr. Terrific and Morals and Reactions

I already talked about it and have shown it, but I'll show it again, Terrific will do what he has to do. He mind-wiped a villain which is something even Batman wouldn't do. Killing someone who plans to murder you from the inside out is not out of the question.

Dodging lasers, mind erasing the villain, dodging bullets

Dodging more stuff, multitude of bullets (gets tagged once due to bullets AND other attacks), straight up attempts to murder french thief by throwing an icicle through his head (didn't know he was intangible).

He also throws him in a volcanic lake later in the fight. He's willing to kill. Just saying.

Blitzing and why it DOES work

92 or 93 stories? Yeah that's ok, I just read the wikipedia entry wrong tbh. No biggy. When moving at lightspeed, it's nearly negligible. 93 stories is 306 meters. so still get there in a microsecond (300 million meters per second is lightspeed) give or take a few fractions of a microsecond. Since Deadhsot nor anyone on your team thinks in microseconds, it all works out still.

Windows unbreakable? Doubt it. But either way I'm pretty sure I could just like...teleport out, fly down, teleport in, or just teleport down to you at lightspeed, making it take EVEN LESS time than a microsecond.

What you're missing is this: WE HAVE FASTER REACTION TIMES THAN YOU. From Blade to Black Juggernaut, to BP, to Terrific/Nova and Static (the two EXTREMELY fast ones), to Afro Samurai both in base and especially amped by Nth metal, New 52 nth metal (Deathstroke's armor) and Battle Computer. We're all much faster than Deadshot and will activate the SOL first. And when moving lightspeed, every millisecond counts.

Oh and you need AT LEAST a second to activate the Rat talisman on Doom's armor, which will severely slow you down and cripple you as far as that's concerned. Mewtwo is useless since he's only thought speed at best (milliseconds compared to lightspeed is SLOOOOW), Beetle and Cold Field also move at thought speed AT BEST (actually human speeds since they need physical activation) and are also useless.

Countering your Battle Plan WHEN you get Blitzed

Flaws.

1. Blue Scarab won't have time to activate durability. He can also be trapped in gravity, put to sleep, made to forget everything he ever knew, and can still die to the Ebony Blade. Not to mention Doom's blasts (from BP), being trapped a continuous Scourge of Erynis, being pounded by Juggernaut, pounded by the Claw of Horus, etc.

2. Doom won't even be active. You need time for that. Plus Nova/Terrific can absorb energy (thus the forcefield), and BP has anti-forcefield weapons in energy daggers (as does Static), Ebony Blades can cut it, Nth metal blades and Claw of Horus and Vibranium swords and weapons all displace/disperse the energy, and BP has another anti-forcefield weapon in Doom's own armor.

Just proving what I'm saying.

3. Spider-Man's durability is trash compared to a hit from the Claw of Horus that KO'd Superman. And since Nth Metal and Ebony Blades already cut through/disperse magic, the talismans won't do much for him. Not to mention we could just TK them off. Can also be made to forget or just magnetized by Static. Or Static can intangible and rip the talismans out.

4. Wolverine: Maybe? Pretty sure you have to actually activate the Star to use it, which means thinking, which doesn't work with a blitz. As for his healing factor, he's been KO'd by less than a hit from Juggernaut or Claw of Horus hit, and he can be put to sleep or made to forget. Static could also just magnetize him.

5. Lady Shiva has withcblade, but it's magic so Ebony Blade and Nth metal mess that up. Plus we could just remove the sword from her grasp with TK or magnetism or make her forget about anything here or put her to sleep, etc.

6. Sapphire Dragon is susceptible to the Reversing Mirror and Emperor Scorpion and it's magic so the Ebony Blade and Nth Metal work well on it. Plus it can just be BFR'd for two minutes via teleportation or stargate.

So yeah, the Blitz works.

Further down.

Doom wouldn't survive because

A. He wouldn't even be active yet

B. His forcefields would be shattered and then the magic of the Rat Talisman canceled by Ebony Blades and Nth Metal

C. We could also just TK/Intangible/Magnetize the talisman from his amor

The forcefields don't work because we have too many options of dispersing energy and forcefields, and we could just teleport out of them.

Spider-Man can't revive anyone cause he's dead/KO'd without the talismans. Plus Horse Talisman has never revived a dead human. Witchblade has already been taken care of.

You're wrong that my team would come any later than Spider-Man, Doom, or even Deadshot acting since they're all far past bullet timers, have outpaced the likes of Spider-Man and Gambit before and are all now enhanced. So they too are much faster than you in activating the SOL, especially Static with the Moonstone.

If Wolverine even remembers he has the Golden Claws or Pym Particles (he won't) and is conscious (he won't be), BP could just redirect his teleport anyways. And Static or BP could just TK/Magnetize the claws off of his body.

Doom has never shown the ability to temporarily shut down his suit. So that's off. Again, doom won't be active or alive, and could do nothing to BP regardless.

I never said BP would be better than Doom, but that he'd use his armor better since he's more tactically sound and Doom is more arrogant and forgets to use his tech.

Plus trying to shut his suit down would just result in Doom being punched by the Claw of Horus repeatedly until he dies/is dispersed.

Doom can't hold Blade with a spell because Blade now has an Ebony Blade and is moving a thousand times faster due to Fancy Feet. He also has a vibranium suit to protect against magic, and if they're that close, Wushun Geyser makes Doom forget what or who he is and especially how to do magic.

Plus Doom is done by now anyways.

Spidey's webs can't hold Blade nor take swords from his hands:

No Caption Provided

Plus Spidey, Deadshot, and Doom are already out/dead.

Mewtwo KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT JUGGERNAUT's HELMET. First prove he can pinpoint that weakness and then he has to pinpoint the T-mask, and then he has to rip the bonded T-mask from his face, then get around the unattached T-sphere that still blocks TP, and then do all of this before Juggernaut uses his rabbit talisman and clone from the Oath Stone of Orkos to kill everyone. And worse, Juggernaut Dynamite sees all of this coming with his battle computer, and is blitzing you at lightspeeds.

Wolverine can't tear up Juggernaut's insides. He's invincible to physical attacks, can regen quickly, is unhurt by Thor's godblast and his hits even with he forcefield/enchantment canceled, etc. So I'd like proof that you can even hurt Juggernaut.

Afro will live due to Nth Metal (which would cancel Golden Claws magic) and Ebony Blade and see it coming due to Battle Computer.

Static goes intangible, Deathstroke can try to hurt him, but has to get past his forcefields AND vibranium armor. Static can just short out Deathstroke's brain with energy daggers or electricity. Wolverine can't teleport in because Static's intangible whenever he tries, and just magnetizes Wolverine so he can't move/slash the air.

So your strategy is greatly flawed in every sense.

Summary

  • We're faster reaction speeds as proven above
  • At lightspeed, we clear the tower in a microsecond, you still haven't moved at all
  • You have no counter to Claw of Horus/planet busting/Superman KOing strength, to Doom's blasts (which you showed can kill Doom himself), to forcefield nullifiers (Nth metal, Ebony Blade, Energy Daggers, Doom's thing on his suit), to Juggernaut punches at high speed, to Gravity, to Wushun Geyser making you forget everything, etc.
  • Our Ebony Blades, Nth Metal, etc. counter everything magic you have
  • Anyone in distance of Blade or Black Dynamite gets blitzed due to fancy feet/rabbit talisman and are made to forget/double attacked due to Wushun Geyser/Oath Stone of Orkos
  • You keep forgetting that you need time to bring 'Doom' to life and can't rely on a NLF to assume he's at full strength
  • Magnetism and Teleportation counters mess up Wolverine and his plan as does TK, reversing mirror, and Emperor Scorpion
  • Everyone on your team is easily put down whether we blitz or not as said above.

Oh and w/e you want proof for, just ask. As far as I know I have a giant post of proof above with a lot of spoiler blocks and whatnot describing everything I've said I can do.

But yeah, we win. And you even acknowledged that you get blitzed, so it's a step and a good one toward acceptance.

P.S. Never portrayed Scourge of Erynis as unstoppable, just a gravity well that ALSO does damage and bypasses most if not all defenses. That's all.

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@darkraiden: Alright - so are we both ready to create our concluding points - or is there more to that last post of yours?

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@thetruebarryallen said:

@darkraiden said:

@thetruebarryallen: Sure go ahead

So after my concluding post we're both gonna be ready for voting & I can notify HA?

Nah. I'll make a concluding post then we'll be ready.

Alright - though can I ask you do to ONE thing in your concluding post [ even though I don't get why you're both starting the debate & ending the debate, that posting order doesn't make sense - you shouldn't be the first and last post in the debate, but w/e ]

Can you please not warp my words & put things into my mouth and claim I've accepted things when I haven't?

Here's what you said:

No Caption Provided

I never accepted your blitz - I wrote about in ALL of my posts how my team prevents that blitz from happening.

In my last post I made a scenario of my team NOT preventing the blitz in case there were voters that didn't believe my team could - I'm covering my bases in case people don't think that my points & proof that we could prevent it are good enough.

Telling the readers that I've accepted something to be true when I haven't is honestly just cheap tactics.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

@darkraiden said:

@thetruebarryallen: Sure go ahead

So after my concluding post we're both gonna be ready for voting & I can notify HA?

Nah. I'll make a concluding post then we'll be ready.

Alright - though can I ask you do to ONE thing in your concluding post [ even though I don't get why you're both starting the debate & ending the debate, that posting order doesn't make sense - you shouldn't be the first and last post in the debate, but w/e ]

Can you please not warp my words & put things into my mouth and claim I've accepted things when I haven't?

Here's what you said:

No Caption Provided

I never accepted your blitz - I wrote about in ALL of my posts how my team prevents that blitz from happening.

In my last post I made a scenario of my team NOT preventing the blitz in case there were voters that didn't believe my team could - I'm covering my bases in case people don't think that my points & proof that we could prevent it are good enough.

Telling the readers that I've accepted something to be true when I haven't is honestly just cheap tactics.

Not necessarily that I want to go last (though it is nice), just want a conclusive post. As for not wording stuff that way....I guess I could not do that. Even though it's perfectly legal and awesome mind games to play with voters and an opponent, I guess I won't put words in your mouth. Sure.

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@darkraiden: Well, it's been real & it's been fun, but it's time to bring this round of the SLAT to an end.

TTBA's Final Post // Conclusions // Closing Statements

Deadshot | Deathstroke | Ditto | Doctor Doom | Lady Shiva | Mewtwo | Spider-Man | Winter Soldier | Wolverine

Section I - Equipment List & Descriptions

Due to the fact that several statements & accusations have been brought up throughout this debate this section will be used to finalize the proven abilities of the equipment that I am using. If you are a voter & are familiar with the pieces of equipment being used in this tournament by my team then feel free to skip this section & go into the counters & rebuttals.

The items will be described in detail under the spoiler block.

Captain Cold's Gun - One of the most advanced pieces of 'Cold' related technology within the DC Universe. The Cold Gun was created by Captain Cold [ an enemy of the Flash ] and it allows him to fire beams of Absolute Zero. Absolute Zero is so incredibly cold that is causes all particle motion to come to a stop. Captain Cold can use these beams of absolute zero offensively by coating his foes in it thus freezing them & shattering them, but he can also use them defensively in order to create an entire field of absolute zero to surround him and others like a force field. The field is so powerful that even foes like Flash are unable to pass through it.

Captain Cold's Cold Grenades - These are grenades engineered and created by Captain Cold. They were seen during the Rogues involvement within the Blackest Night arc & were used to combat the Black Lantern Versions of the Rogues. Captain Cold used a single grenade to create a blast wide enough to turn the entirety of the Iron Heights prison into an iceberg.

Heart of Jong - The Heart of Jong is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. It has the ability to bring life to inanimate objects and grant them their own personalities and emotions. The Heart can grant powers to the objects that it brings to life the key example of this being Raksha.

Third Arm Sash - The Third Arm Sash is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. As it's name suggests it is a sash to be tied around the users waist or body, when activated the sash acts like a third arm and corresponds to the users thoughts and actions. The sash can also extend further than a normal arm in an effect similar to that of Plastic Man or Mister Fantastic.

Sapphire Dragon - The Sapphire Dragon is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu and is actually one of the most dangerous. Once activated the Sapphire Dragon morphs from a small statue form into a massive dragon made entirely of Sapphire. The Dragon is able to emit mystical blue flames from it's mouth that transmute it's foes from living flesh to solid sapphire blocks. Once transmuted the sapphire statues fall under the mental control of the Dragon.

Emperor Scorpion - The Emperor Scorpion is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu and is the most powerful of it's kind. The Emperor Scorpion can be used to command and control other Shen Gong Wu, even those deemed uncontrollable such as the Sapphire Dragon and the being known as Mala Mala Jong.

Helmet of Jong - The Helmet of Jong is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. The Helmet of Jong grants the user eyes in the back of their head, thus enabling the user to evade attacks and assaults with greater ease.

Shroud of Shadows - The Shroud of Shadows is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. Any object that was covered by the Shroud was granted invisibility as long as it was covered. If the object was too big to be covered by the Shroud than only the portion covered by the Shroud was granted invisibility.

Reversing Mirror - The Reversing Mirror is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. The Reversing Mirror has the power to redirect or reverse an attack. It was also used with the Crystal Glasses to reveal a false future.

Golden Tiger Claws - The Golden Tiger Claws are/is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. The Golden Tiger Claws allowed the user to create a portal to any location they desire.

Shard of Lightning (2) - The Shard of Lightning is one of the mystical objects known as the Shen Gong Wu. The Shard of Lightning grants the user the ability to move at light speeds, but only for a short period of time before it has to be reactivated. The Shard grants it's abilities to anyone and everyone who is touching the Shard during activation and is one of the only Shen Gong Wu that's effects can be used by more than one person at a time.

Doctor Doom's Armor - The armor made and utilized by Victor Von Doom. It has a wide variety of energy absoption capabilities along with power energy projection and force-field creation. The armor also grants immunity to telepathic attacks.

Mirror Master's Equipment - Created by Samuel Scudder, the original Mirror Master. This equipment allows the wearer to defy the laws of physics and reality by moving through any and all reflective surfaces. The blaster can also allow the user to fire blasts that transmute its target into glass, thus rendering them incredibly fragile. The blaster can also be used to send bolts of energy at it's target or to summon duplicates of people from the Mirror World that are twisted and evil versions of themselves, even if the original themselves are evil. The suit has a button on it that allows the wearer to create 1000's of clones/duplicates that can interact with the physical world but when hit or damaged shatter into glass.

Telekinesis Plasmid - A Plasmid is a special serum that genetically modifies or mutates those who it is injected into. The Telekinesis Plasmid grants the user the ability to use Telekinesis in order to grab and throw projectiles, objects, and even people.

Winter Blast Plasmid - A Plasmid is a special serum that genetically modifies or mutates those who it is injected into. The Winter Blast Plasmid grants the user the ability to fire a freezing blast that stops a target in it's tracks and freezes them solid. If someone who was hit by Winter Blast is attacked or hit while in their frozen state they shatter into pieces.

Gravity Well Plasmid - A Plasmid is a special serum that genetically modifies or mutates those who it is injected into. The Gravity Well Plasmid grants the user the ability to throw a super dense polyp that creates a super strong void with effects similar to that of a black hole. Once the polyp bursts it draws in anything and everything to the center or the vortex and cause damage to those trapped within it's effects.

Hypnotize Plasmid - A Plasmid is a special serum that genetically modifies or mutates those who it is injected into. The Hypnotize Plasmid grants the user the ability to throw a small sphere at their target. If the target is hit/tagged with the sphere then they are put under the control of the user and will fight for them & their allies no matter their initial feelings towards the user.

Security Command Plasmid - A Plasmid is a special serum that genetically modifies or mutates those who it is injected into. The Secruity Command Plasmid is similar to the Hypnotize Plasmid; however, if the target is hit by the user's sphere then any & all security devices and/or units within the area will target the person who was hit.

Pym Particles - The Pym Particles are a class of subatomic particles that were discovered by Hank Pym. They can be used to alter an objects size; however, over usage of the particles can cause mental instability as seen in Hank Pym and his reoccurring mental breakdowns.

Mario Super Star - The Super Star power from the Mario Series grants Mario a limited period of invincibility. While under the effects of the Star the user becomes immune to all forms of damage. For the sake of this tournament the Star lasts a total of 10 seconds.

Adamantium Ammunition - Adamantium is a metal alloy that can break through any substance and is regarded as unbreakable. The only way to pierce the alloy is through substances made of the same alloy. For the sake of this tournament one of my team members has been given Adamantium ammo for his weapons.

Ben Riley's Web Shooters - Ben Riley is a clone of Peter Parker and created an improved version of Parker's web shooters. Riley's design had the same organic webbing that Parker used but had three other forms of attack. These improvements were impact webbing that could encase a foe in a web cocoon, stingers that were covered in a chemical agent to paralyze their targets, and tracers to track their targets.

Khaji Da the Blue Scarab - The Blue Scarab known as Khaji Da is a living weapon that was created by the Reach in order to conquer Earth. The Scarab; however, was too damage to fulfill it's mission and bonded with Jamie Reyes to use as a host - due to Jamie's morals he has to use a lot of his willpower to keep the Scarab in check & prevent it from hurting innocents or other heroes such as the GLC. The Scarab is capable of independent action but it also grants it's host a wide variety of abilities such as teleportation, a plethora of tracking systems such as energy, biological, magic, or technology, an enhanced healing factor that can revive the host from fatal attacks such as point blank head shots, the ability to create a vast number of weapons and shields, energy projectors, flight, battle analysis adaptation which allows the Scarab to modify it's weapons & defenses in mid battle to combat a foes weakness, and enhanced strength, speed, and agility.

Ebony Blade - The Ebony Blade is a virtually indestructible sword forged from a meteorite and given special enchantments by the great wizard known as Merlin. It can cut through any substance and is able to disrupt, deflect, or absorb energy fields or energy beams, including magical energies. The blade grants the user immunity from death unless the user is killed by or harmed by weapons of the same star stone materials as the Ebony Blade itself.

Witchblade - The Witchblade is the offspring of the Primal Forces within the Top Cow Universe known as the Darkness and the Angelus. As a sentient being it bonds itself with a host, typically a female host due to the blade itself being male. The Blade has access to divine powers and can grant the user a wide variety of special abilities such as super strength, enhanced vision, flight, energy projection, full body armor, weapon creation in a spectrum of different weapons ranging from simple swords to heat whips, an enhanced healing factor, and the ability to resurrect the dead.

The Power Rings of the Mandarin - The Rings used by the Mandarin grant him a wide variety of powerful abilities. These include vortex creation, illusion casting, telepathy enhancements, ice blasts, heat blasts, electrical blasts, molecular manipulation, and other abilities.

Rooster Talisman - Grants the user Telekinesis.

Ox Talisman - Grants the user super strength & durability.

Snake Talisman - Grants the user invisibility.

Sheep Talisman - Grants the user the ability to project their astral forms or force the souls of their foes out of their bodies.

Rabbit Talisman - Grants the user super sonic speed.

Dragon Talisman - Grants the user the ability of pyrokinesis.

Rat Talisman - Grants the user the ability to bring inanimate objects to life.

Horse Talisman - Grants the user the ability to heal.

Dog Talisman - Grants the user immortality.

Pig Talisman - Grants the user the ability to fire optic heat blasts.

Monkey Talisman - Grants the user the ability of animal shape shifting.

Tiger Talisman - Grants the user the ability to split themselves into their Ying + Yang forms.

Section II - Proof & Debunking DR's Counters & Overall Argument

This section is more vital & important to the whole - debating - aspect of this tournament. There are several things I've been waiting to call you out on or answer for you in the detail that you're requesting.

1. You've Misused Scans

I'd like to take this time to point out our debacle we had early on in our debate about the 'Worldmind'.

See - the first mistake you made was assuming that it granted you the powers of the Nova Force and that you'd be as powerful as Nova Prime or the Richard Rider version of Nova. This isn't true and you've done nothing to prove that Sam Alexander's Nova Force is equal to the powers and abilities of Richard Rider.

Let's make a list of all the scans you've used in this debate showing the wrong version of Nova, shall we?

  1. Putting Drax to Sleep [ Post #6 ]
  2. Lobotomizing Ego [ Post #6 ]
  3. FTL Flight Speed [ Post #6 ]
  4. Serpent Society Fight [ Post #6 ]
  5. Dodging Drax [ Post #32 ]
  6. Fighting someone of Gladiators Race [ Post #32 ]

There might be more - but I can't actually tell because it's not explicitly stated in your description of the scans nor is it shown in the scans. The reason I'm pointing this out is because their feats aren't transferable. Sam Alexander Nova hasn't shown to be on the same level as Richard Rider in terms of feats - so it's rather "baseless" of you to claim they're identical in power output & overall abilities.

You've got as much of the Nova Force as SA does - so if SA hasn't displayed the capabilities to replicate Rider's feats, then how are they interchangeable?

Now - I'm personally not that knowledgeable about Nova [ either Sam or Richard ] so I did some research to see what Sam Alexander's abilities were in combat & how powerful he actually is.

The results were lackluster - here are some threads with SA Nova in them in which the majority of commenters claim that SA Nova is practically featless.

  1. Nova vs Kyle Rayner [ Thread got locked because Nova has no feats to compare ]
  2. Nova vs Iron Man [ DonDave states that Nova hasn't practically done much of anything but fly ]
  3. Nova vs Ms. Marvel [ The Carol Danvers version of Ms.Marvel - CV states she has flight speeds of Mach 3 - yet Viner's are stating that Carol wins in a stomp ]

Those are just some examples - now look, if you can provide feats of SAM ALEXANDER doing anything noteworthy with his portion of the Nova Force, then maybe I'd be more swayed by your argument on that one, but if not, then your Mister Terrific/Nova isn't as impressive as you claim him to be.

I'd also like to point out that you're using the Claw of Horus scan out of context as well - stating that it can 1HKO Superman in a single punch.

See, I checked out a Hawkman Respect Thread to see if I could find anything more about Nth Metal or the Claw of Horus because you hadn't done a very good job of describing it [ you just state that anything I do involving magic is going to be ruined because of your single Nth Metal Harness and a Katana ] and while I was there I discovered the entire story behind that fight w/Superman & Hawkman.

No Caption Provided

Apparently - Superman was faking the KO so he could get into Luthor's office. Superman was not 1HKO-ed by the Claw of Horus, so claiming that he was is misleading.

Also - in one of your scans of Mister Terrific dodging lasers he was using T-Spheres to amplify his speed by using them under his feet and having them fly him through the air, just saying - that's not a natural reaction time.

Just some knowledge for the people who will be voting here.

2. The Rat Talisman on Doom is not NLF - also Doom is active from the start.

After asking for proof about the Rat Talisman bringing Doom to life - and me proving it to you, you spout off that I'm abusing something you've dubbed the NLF ( No Limits Fallacy ) which I think if you're way of trying to dismiss the entire thing because you've got no true counter for it.

Lo-Pei was using incredibly powerful magic when the statue of him was brought to life, and considering that he was the Sacred Warrior that led the uprising against Shendu [ who had the power of the 12 Talismans ] would put him & his magic pretty high up in my books. He was even using spells similar to those of Daolon Wong, a powerful Dark Chi Wizard.

To claim that I'm using a baseless argument is hilarious - considering it's what you've been doing with the Shard of Lightning this entire time claiming that it will 'stack' your speed because there are some other magical objects in the past that are completely unrelated that have done the same for others.

You've also brought up the fact that my team is going to have to place the Rat Talisman inside of Doom after the battle begins and that it'll take some time some Doom truly won't be 'alive' in time because you're going to "speed blitz" me.

See - I talked with HighAccuser about some things ( just like you did with the T-Spheres ) and he ruled that it is perfectly legal for Doom to come into the battle with the Talisman activated before things even begin.

No Caption Provided

The above image/response is how he answered the following question: "If our armors are active right from the start then wouldn't the Doom armor I have be active since I'm animating it during my 1 month of "prep" so the Doom Armor can train alongside my team?"

So - the Doom Armor has the active Rat Talisman in it even before the fight begins.

3. The Golden Tiger Claws & You Controlling our Shen Gong Wu

So first off - you've mentioned that Omi was able to SEE where he was teleporting when he teleported inside the body of Mala Mala Jong yet Omi was in the center of the Earth and Mala Mala Jong was off fighting the other Dragon Warriors.

They were not even CLOSE to each other when Omi teleported into Mala Mala Jong, so no, Omi couldn't "see" where he was teleporting into.

As for it not counting because Mala Mala Jong is a mystical entity made of Shen Gong Wu who can absorb and embody all of their powers, I don't see why it doesn't count. His torso is a torso, he feels pain, he's got vital organs [ Heart of Jong ] and all in all he's a living being.

Once again you're trying to BS some reasons as to why my proven strategies won't work.

Then we've got the argument that if Wolverine tries to go inside of Mister Terrific he has the Reversing Mirror so it won't work because you'll rebound the attack, you're also talking about controlling our Shen Gong Wu.

I've pointed out that we have similar items, some of them are even identical. So it's time to show you why none of your strategies for using the Reversing Mirror or Emperor Scorpion to take my Wu will work.

  1. I use Golden Tiger Claws but you use Reversing Mirror to counter.
  2. I use my Reversing Mirror to Counter your Reversing Mirror
  3. You use your Emperor Scorpion to Control my Reversing Mirror
  4. I use my Emperor Scorpion to Control your Emperor Scorpion

In the end - my team's assault would be successful.

Or I could use your argument - if you try to use the Wu on my I'll just use the Ebony Blade or Doctor Doom's armor to absorb/disrupt the magic you're using.

4. Mister Terrific's Morals

Comparing his moral code to Bruce's is hilarious - Bruce has one of the strictest moral codes in history.

You want a list of heroes who were fine with a mind wipe?

  • Hawkman
  • The Atom
  • Zatanna
  • Flash [ Barry Allen ]

Barry was fine with a mind wipe - yet in character he wouldn't ever try to kill someone. He was in terrible shape after accidentally killing Professor Zoom in the Trial of the Flash Story Line.

So "Mind-Wipe" isn't the same as straight up STARGATE TO THE SUN when it comes down to a moral code.

Also - him throwing an icicle at some dudes head isn't an attempt to MURDER him, a kid threw an icicle at me once when I was young, does that mean his intent was to murder me?

Anyways - BFR for victory is banned from this battle plus we have the fact that High Accuser told me he wouldn't even be able to do that, his words - not mine.

No Caption Provided

So we've got another claim of yours that doesn't exactly fall through. Your argument isn't holding up that well.

Mister Terrific/Nova vs Deathstroke/Blue Beetle

I've been thinking about your blitz a lot and I've come up with another reason as to why it just straight up won't work.

Deathstroke is going to be in the active Blue Beetle armor the same time that Mister Terrific is going to be wearing the Nova Helmet.

I'd put Base Deathstroke > Base Terrific in reaction times - but I'd also put Blue BeetleStroke > Nova Terrific in speed, or they'd be fairly equal.

In the scans above we see BB outrace a Nuke AFTER it's been fired & reaches it's target destination far before the nuke gets there. BB also protects a group of people from energy weapons AFTER the weapons have been fired. Lastly we've got BB fighting against a group of Lantern Crops members [ Kyle Rayner, Bleeze, and an OLC member ] so he's got the speed.

Honestly - when it comes to just speed towards the Shard of Lightning in order to activate it, I don't see how BB isn't on par with Mister Terrific.

Especially since Jaime hasn't been able to use the Scarab to it's fullest potential due to not wanting to use lethal force against people & him having a heroic moral code. With the scarab strapped onto a baddie like Deathstroke I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to activate my teams SOL - thus allowing my team to activate their other defenses, and then we're fully prepared for your blitz.

Section III - TK & Gravity & Scourge of Erinys

You've been claiming this entire time that your team is superior in the fact that they'll be able to grab my teams items via:

  • Telekinesis // TK
  • Gravity (?)
  • Magnetism
  • Scourge of Erinys

The only TK you have is from the Rooster Talisman - an object that I have as well. It's also mentioned that Sam Alexander was able to use TK once but when he did all he did with it was lift one of Rocket Raccoon's guns - it's not like he's overflowing with powerful TK feats.

I've got Mewtwo + Mento Intensifier, Ditto who 75% of Mewtwo's powers, Rooster Talisman, and the TK Plasmid

Then you mention you've got "gravity" though you haven't shown anything applicable for it - like, what would you do with it? If you're talking about the Moon Stone then you haven't shown any feats with it doing the things you're saying you can do with it.

I too can manipulate Gravity - you've got Nth Metal but I've never seen it working to steal an individual object, it defies gravity for the person using it allowing them flight.

BB was able to make someone else levitate without gravity manipulation - so Deathstroke could do the same to your individual items thus robbing you, see?

No Caption Provided

Then you've argued that you can use Magnetism to steal my items - because Static has used Magnetism before and he'll rob me of my stuff! First off - Static wasn't even in the list of people that you had coming to blitz me to steal my items, you've only activated the SOL for MT & BP.

Anyways - BB once again has replicated Magnetism Feats & reversed Magnetism - once again I'll post some feats.

BB creates a Magnetic field in order to trap a group of Omacs and then states that the field could be active for 17 years straight. Then in his fight against Doctor Polaris his armor reconfigured it's polarity in order to negate magnetism against it.

Then we've also got Doctor Doom in his armor who can reverse magnetism like he did with Magneto.

Magnetism argument has been nullified - I can & will replicate/nullify it if you attempt it.

As for the Scourge of Erinys - it's got the same powers & effectiveness of Deadshot's Gravity Well Plasmid. It should also be noted that the Scourge only brings enemies to the middle of the vortex & deals some damage towards them but it doesn't shatter or destroy armor such as plate-bodies or shields nor does it grab specific items from my team. It hasn't shown the power to, and if it did, the Gravity Well does the SAME exact thing.

Since the blitz won't be happening - and I've explained why [ BB/DS Speed to activate the SOL + Nova/Terrific not being as fast as you say he is ] so I don't have to worry about you trying to rob me of my items nor would you be able to if you tried.

Section IV - The Battle

I've outlined that your blitz won't happen - in fact I've shown more evidence that BB/DS would be able to operate a blitz better than Terrific/Nova could.

Also - the Scarab is already covering Deathstroke when the fight begins - High Accuser confirmed this for me. The question at hand was if Deadshot's Cold Field would be active before the fight starts & if Deathstroke's Scarab would be active before the fight or if he has to activate it manually when it begins - the answer is that he does not.

No Caption Provided

Once Deathstroke & the Blue Scarab activate Deadshots SOL then Deadshot will activate the cold field thus surrounding my team in a field of Absolute Zero - you cannot physically move through the field.

Deadshot will then use his incredible speed boost to duplicate himself by the 1000's due to having Mirror Master's equipment. Then the real Deadshot will jump into the Mirror World [ it's not BFR for victory & he isn't forcefully dimension porting anyone else inside so it's legal within the rules and regulations of this tournament ] while in the Mirror World he won't be touchable from your team.

Wolverine has invincibility for the first 10 seconds of this fight - you don't have to activate the Star, it'll be active when the fight starts. It's not like Wolverine has to yell "STAR, ON!" to use it or like he's gonna have to push some magical buttons on it.

Deathstroke will then tell Wolverine to activate his own Shard of Lightning - by now your team will have activate your own SOL & you'll be down on the ground floor because you've predicted all of this with your Crystal Glasses, right?

Lady Shiva will activate the Sapphire Dragon & it will begin to wreck havoc on your team - at the least it's a distraction to give an opening from any one of my team members + at most it turns some of your team members to Sapphire and then uses it's mind control abilities to turn those team members against you.

Mewtwo & Ditto will have created a psychic link for my team so we can communicate - since Wolverine and Spider-Man have faced Juggernaut before they'll know that to make him weak to psychic attacks that my team will need to remove his helmet.

Wolverine will use his Golden Tiger Claws to port inside of Mister Terrific - to keep him busy while Wolverine does this Spider-Man will be using his Talisman Powers + Web Shooters to try and remove the helmet from Terrific's head, if the helmet gets taken off then Terrific is as good as dead.

I've explained why your Reversing Mirror tactic won't work already - so that helmet is coming off & his insides are getting torn to shreds. While the horse talisman tries to heal him Spider-Man will get up close & personal and will use his web shooters to remove the Crystal Glasses from Terrific's face along with his Shen Gong Wu & the Talismans.

Terrific is dead - Wolverine then moves to Black Panther who would be kept busy by Doom & Lady Shiva, the scans that I showed of Doom defeating Doom shows that Doom is more than capable of beating an "imposter" that tries to use his armor against him, especially since Doom is empowered by his magical abilities.

If the fight is truly too difficult then Doom can use the magic he learned from Morgan Le Fay in order to summon the Mindless Ones to the fight.

No Caption Provided

If that doesn't work & Doom needs to go the EXTRA mile he can use the Ovid Mind Transfer - as long as the T Mask has been ripped off, which, they can easily be ripped off everyone on your team via TK.

At this point Wolverine will have moved to BP - so once he's attacking his internal organs BP will most surely be down.

Also - speaking of Lady Shiva I figured I'd show you the Witch Blade, it's not a sword.

In the scans above the Witchblade [ which I've described in my items section ] is able to become a full suit of body armor. In the other sets of scans we see it healing Ian Nottingham from some devastating wounds & it instantly heals a spear impalement in the other two scans. The Witchblade is pretty gosh darn powerful - especially since it contends with the powers of the Darkness & Angelus + is also a product of their "getting together".

The Sapphire Dragon will have kept Blade Busy - but is probably dead due to Blade having an Ebony Blade. Mewtwo will use his TK to remove the Blade from Blade's hand - again having Deadshot open up a portal in the Mirror World to dump all your taken equipment.

Without his magic resistance Doom will use a holding Spell on Blade [ like I have shown before ] and Winter Soldier will use his Adamantium Ammo to kill him. Without the Ebony Blade, Blade won't have the healing factor to contend with an Adamantium head shot.

Blade is down.

Mewtwo will use his TK & so will Deadshot in order to disarm your team of their remaining items - once again dumping them into the Mirror world.

Without Nth Metal [ even though you didn't apply it, you just stated it would CANCEL ALL MAGIC, so wouldn't it prevent yours too? ] you have no answer to the vast magical objects my team has.

Winter Soldier // Wolverine // Doctor Doom // Lady Shiva - Focus on Afro

Spider-Man // Deathstroke // Ditto // Deadshot - Focus on Static, since Deathstroke can hit intangible foes then Static's whole "intangibility" argument is beat, plus Deathstrokes Ebony Blade can cut through anything Static throws at him as it absorbs all of his electrical energies.

Static & Afro will be down. Last up is Black Juggernaut.

Mewtwo will use TK to remove his helmet - if you claim that the force fields will be too powerful for his TK then Deathstroke in the Beetle Armor will teleport [ as he did in Infinite Crisis ] close enough to Black Juggernaut in order to use his Ebony Blade to disrupt the Gem of Cyttorak due to the fact that it's a magical object & the Ebony Blade disrupts/absorbs magical energies.

Once the field is down then Mewtwo will use his TK on the Juggernaut Helmet & Deadshot will open up a portal to the Mirror World in order to store the object.

Once the helmet is off Deadshot will use his TK Plasmid [ or Mewtwo/Ditto can do this ] to remove the T-Mask on Black Dynamites face thus rendering him susceptible to a mind rape.

Once the MR happens then it'll be game over for Black Juggernaut - he isn't protected from telepathy & the Ebony Blade will have done it's job to absorb the magical force field around him for a long enough time to provide the opening.

It's GG at that point - your team is outnumbered, out gunned, and too slow to truly defeat mine.

Full Conclusions

  • You've misused scans of Nova - showing RR instead of SA and the two do not have interchangeable feats.
  • SOL speed doesn't stack & you never showed that it would.
  • Claw of Horus isn't a 1HKO on Superman - he was faking it.
  • BB Scarab > Nova Helmet - in terms of speeds & reaction times. At worst they're EQUAL in which case the blitz is still prevented.
  • Doom is activated via Rat Talisman from the moment of the start of the fight - my team doesn't have to take any time to do this.
  • My Numbers >> Your Numbers
  • My TK >> Your TK | Mewtwo, Ditto, TK Plasmid, Mento Intensifier, Rooster Talisman >>>> SA Nova's low TK feat & Rooster Talisman.
  • Gravity Well cancels out your Scourge of Erinys - both of which don't disarm items.
  • I can disarm you & BFR your items to the Mirror World for Deadshot to hold onto. You're not getting them back.
  • Doom w/Magic > BP in Doom's armor
  • Just saying "NTH METAL" isn't an accurate or effective way to counter anything.
  • You've got no answer for Deadshot dumping things in the Mirror World
  • You've done nothing to show the powers of the Moon Stone
  • You can't take control of my SGW with the Emperor Scorpion.
  • You've admitted in this debate [ in post #38 ] that you were trying to mislead/confuse voters by stating I had made claims that I actually hadn't. You claimed that it was an awesome mind game to play with me & the voters to "put words in my mouth" and if that isn't disrespectful or a very CHEAP way to debate then I don't know what is.

Twas a long debate, twas a fun debate, but this is the end of my portion of the debate.

After your next & concluding post we'll open this puppy up for votes. Best of luck, regardless of what happens :)

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#40  Edited By DarkRaiden

@thetruebarryallen:

Rebuttal to TTBA:

1. Scans

Um...you realize me and highaccuser already went over this right? I know I'm not using Nova Prime. Not sure why you went back and talked about scans I used BEFORE my abilities were clarified. Doesn't make sense really.

And the Serpent Society one applies since they were normal Novas and not Nova Prime. Nothing ever suggested that any Novas get a different level of Nova Force except for Nova Prime. So you're wrong there. Putting Drax to sleep and fighting someone of Gladiator's race should both be applicable as well since the first isn't a power feat but a skill/manipulation feat, and the second was before he was Nova Prime IIRC.

Other threads and other opinions don't mean squat really, not sure why you brought that up. And Claw of Horus still hits with the strength/weight of a planet regardless, that doesn't change. Didn't know about the Supes thing, but it changes nothing.

I showed him dodging spaceships with ease, flying across hemispheres in seconds to blitz a Phoenix 5 member, having super fast reaction times due to time dilation, flying extremely fast to far off locations, and cited Nova 17 where he flew to the sun in a short time. What more could you possibly want?

2. Doom NLF

It's a NLF until you show it reviving someone as powerful as Doom. Simple as. Like I said, would it revive/animate a statue of Living Tribunal at full power? No. No it wouldn't. As for being active before the match, a little cheap as that's essentially, no literally prep, but still the magic cutting swords will deactivate that and the blitz will destroy it.

3. Golden Tiger Claws SGW

No. SGW don't even work that way. You can't reverse the reversing mirror because:

A. You'd have to have it equipped already ergo see the future and know I have it and am using it (you don't have pre-cog, I do).

B. It only reverses things. It'd have no effect

And Golden Tiger claws have literally, in the history of neverdom, never been used to go inside of a human or living organisms's body. Thus stating it can is baseless. That's all.

And again, you can't Emperor Scorpion anything because Shiva get's wtf super blitzed by everyone on my team and disarmed immediately. Emperor Scorpion wouldn't even work on Emperor Scorpion anyways. That wouldn't make sense. And you wouldn't know that Ebony Blade disrupts magic since DS has literally no intel on it. We do because Crystal Glasses, Battle Computer, Fountain of Infinite Knowledge and Black Panther. So wrong again.

4. Morals for Terrific

But he didn't just mindwipe, he tried to actively kill a guy by throwing him into a volcanic lake and throwing a giant icicle into his head. This icicle was sharp as hell and aimed right at dude's head too. I thought I could Stargate you to the sun, not as a BFR win (thought there was a time limit or w/e) but as a Sun-burns-you-to-a-crisp win. Either way he could just open a Stargate near you, that leads to 2 feet away, and the damage itself should solo most of your team.

5. Deathstroke BB vs. Terrific/Nova speed.

Um..ok, outracing a nuke has nothing on flying to the moon in seconds and clearing hemispheres in seconds. Not sure why that would make you faster than me, especially when I have proven time dilation. Also IIRC you said DEADSHOT not Deathstroke would activate the SOL faster than me, can't just change strategies now. You don't have pre-cog of any kind and thus won't know what we're doing or even planning on doing. TBH even your blitz defense strategy is off course since your team would have no idea what my team is doing.

Also you forgot Static/Moonstone's reaction times. Much faster than the time it'd take Deathstroke/BB to physically move over to Deadshot and activate SOL. And then consider BP's reaction times (so fast made a guy stab himself, outsped Spider-Man and Wolverine) amped by Doom's armor, and he might activate it himself. Practically everyone on my team is much faster than DEADSHOT who you said was activating the SOL.

6. Gravity and TK

The Gravity and TK I talked about was yes the talisman (you have one but Spidey's moving snailspeed compared to my team), gravity from Nova, from T-Spheres, from Moonstone, Scourge of Erynis, and Static's magnetic TK.

Not sure what you mean "what would I do with it", I'd remove items from your hands/body while you're standing still due to our blitz.

About Static....WRONG!

I said Terrific and BP would get there first followed shortly by Static who has his own SOL and comparable reaction speeds to Nova/Terrific. He's fast enough to blitz your team as well.

As for BB levitation, you'd have to prove it strong enough to overpower my team of 10+ tonners, which you can't.

BB can reverse magnetism, cool. But that doesn't stop the initial disarming of your team. Once that happens, you're blitzed in the time it takes you to 'negate' the magnetism. And even if you successfully negated the magnetism, what's stopping a stargate from removing these items from the field, or us from easily flying over and taking said items before they drop (at FTL flight speeds for Nova/Terrific)? Nothing.

Doom reversed magnetism on himself only so...just means the armor will be affected at first, and then it won't. Cool. By that time, it's sliced into giblets by Ebony Blade or Nth Metal and Rat Talisman is deactivated. Or we just use magnetism on the Rat Talisman itself to deactivate Doom so he can do nothing. Or TK or Gravity on said Talisman. Either way, Doom is no longer animated.

I know what Scourge does, already explained it. It's just something to hurt you and keep you distracted and airborne while we blitz and destroy your team. Plus it's perfectly spammable so you'll never escape.

7. Battle stuff

Ok, let me stop you there, you've proven nothing as far as Deathstroke/BB being fast enough to activate SOL before Terrific/Nova and Static/Moonstone who have Massively hypersonic to FTL reflexes/reaction speeds.

You've also changed and had Deathstroke/BB activating the SOL instead of Deadshot.

And worse, you've ignored that Cold Field does nothing because Gravity/Magnetism/TK/Scourge of Erynis can attack through it and easily lift it from your hands/deactivate it. Also we'll blitz you far before that.

Deadshot traversing dimensions does nothing for him since BP can just follow him/redirect him and take him out there. Again, you won't have time to do any of this since you're being blitzed. Also...who said Deadshot will learn how to use the Mirror Equipment and Cold Equipment in time? Food for thought.

Sapphire Dragon literally gets immediately controlled by Emperor Scorpion and then either turned on your team (where we keep going back and forth with taking control) or destroyed by Nth Metal/Ebony Blade.

Spidey shoots his webshooters, Terrific will just....move. Or use a forcefield. That's not a distraction at all. And actually before Spidey can do anything and even Wolverine can do anything (since we see the future), either a stargate is opened up NEAR you (no BFR, just damage) or he just blitzes both of you and removes your items. Static can help too with magnetism and speed.

You didn't explain the reversing mirror at all as you can't reverse the reversing mirror so...that made no sense. Also Wolverine has to move fast enough to even slash the air and jump through the clearly visible portal. Terrific, Static, Blade, Afro, Dynamite, BP, etc. can all take him out or remove the Claws before he does so.

Doom summons the Mindless ones....who are then easily taken out by Ebony Blade+speedblitz or held up in the air by magnetism. Or as Doom summons them, he gets speedblitzed ridiculous and/or deactivated as said before.

Mewtwo still has no TK feats even nearing Blade's strength level especially enhanced with Ox talisman. So that's a no.

Deathstroke fighting Static? He'll just get blitzed or get the sword taken away from him via Magnetism (hint: Static won't aim at the sword).

Again, neither Deadshot nor Mewtwo have KNOWLEDGE of the Juggernaut helmet or the T-Mask. If you can explain how they have knowledge, then you can at least try to explain that plan. Even then, BD has super speed, a clone, and Juggernaut's strength and then some. A simple thunderclap took down an entire X-Men squad. It will do the same to Deadshot and Mewtwo and injure the rest of your team. He can then use his super speed and solo, or even throw his funky boomerangs.

So...all of that is wrong.

Also you're ignoring something. We have Crystal Glasses Pre-cognition. So while I've already proven I'm faster than you and can blitz you with ease and whatnot, if we weren't....we'd know. That means that we'd not take the fight to you, but Stargate you to oblivion (with damage, not BFR), or even as soon as we get close, have Blade use the Wushun Geyser and make you all forget a battle is happening and how to use your weapons. You've yet to counter that.

So none of this works.

Oh and btw, about that Wolverine stuff with the Star...

here's how it reads in the original thread:

Mario Star (4) ( Lasts for 10 seconds, 1 use only per round )

See how it says use? That implies it has to be activated. Just saiyan.

Why I win

Ok here's me breaking down why I win

Speed:

  • I showed various speed feats for Nova such as flying far distances in short times, time dilation/fast reaction speed, the serpent society feat and so on.
  • Also showed speed feats for Static AND Moonstone and the two combined should be second only to Terrific/Nova
  • Due to speed we'll activate SOL faster, and that microsecond it takes to clear the tower does nothing to us as we blitz
  • Reminder that Blade is fast enough to blitz vampires (who have blitzed Spider-Man in return) and has handled an amped, Vampire Spidey and now has Fancy Feet
  • Reminder that Afro is fast enough to easily block bullets and RPG missiles and is now amped by Nth Metal and Deathstroke's armor and a Battle Computer
  • Reminder that Black Dynamite is bullet timing fast and 'disappear from sight' fast and is amped by Juggernaut's speed, Battle Computer, and the Rabbit Talisman
  • Reminder that BP has outsped Spider-Man and Wolverine, Made a man stab himself, thrown 3 punches in the time it takes a man to throw 1 (before upgrade), and is now amped by Doom's armor
  • Our travel is Speed is FTL with Terrific/Nova and close to it with Moonstone/Static
  • Deathstroke/BB is not comparable to Nova/Terrific or Static/Moonstone with their near or FTL speed feats and reaction and he's not even the original one activating the SOL, slow human Deadshot is
  • Even Terrific and Static at base are fast as, if not faster than Deadshot
  • Same with BP, Afro, Blade, Black Dynamite, etc.

TK/Gravity/Magnetism:

  • We can use these to disarm them of their items
  • He showed a counter to it but...it's a counter...as in after the fact. Their team is still missing items that we can now take
  • Gravity wells and forcefields and magnetism can stick members to walls and make them immobilized
  • Gravity and TK and magnetism can literally deactivate Doom and snatch items from their hand
  • His TK has no feats of overpowering my weakest guys who are around 10 tons of strength

Weapons:

  • Ebony Blade and Nth Metal cut through his magic and any energy he wanted to use
  • Black Dynamite has his adamantium swords and his boomerangs that are now adamantium and random
  • Claw of Horus still hits with the weight of a planet and is Nth metal so it disrupts energy
  • His forcefields plan and his cold field plans (trying fruitlessly to stop the blitz) all get canceled by Nth Metal and Ebony Blades and Claw of Horus and even Scourge of Erynis, TK, Gravity, etc. (for Cold Field)
  • Doom's armor gives BP plenty of weapons to take out his team and even stop teleporting
  • Emperor Scorpion and Reversing Mirror stop his SGW like Sapphire Dragon and Golden Claws
  • Still no counter to Wushun Geyser when we get close. No memory = no fight = I win.

Precognition:

  • A huge factor, We know his every move. Multiple people on my team do. Almost everyone
  • Due to pre-cog, we can be ready for and counter anything he can possibly do.
  • We can stay long range if for some reason he was faster or better close range
  • We could go close if he was for some reason better far range
  • We can stop his moves before he does them
  • Stargates son.

Strength and Durability:

  • Nova/Terrific has high levels of durability, a healing factor AND the Horse Talisman to heal himself and others
  • Black Dynamite already had high strength and durability (surviving an exploding shuttle/rocket ship, a car crash,a grenade, etc. and hitting Honkey Kong and making him run away)
  • With Crimson Gem it's even higher to insane levels that almost no one can harm him and he hits with strength to overpower and hurt the likes of Thor, The X-Men, Hulk, and more.
  • Blade is already 5-7 tons, Ox talisman amp him even more. He also has on vibranium to aid his durability (already high as he tanks explosions). And he has a great healing factor
  • Afro has a huge healing factor with Nth Metal, and has New 52 Deathstroke's armor that let him survive an exploding sub.
  • Static has a minor healing factor due to Moonstone, but great durabiltiy AND Vibranium armor.

Immortality:

  • Almost everyone on my team is immortal in some way.
  • Black Dynamite with Crimson Gem which lets him fight even as a skeleton
  • Static with the Dog Talisman
  • Terrific with healing factor+durability+horse talisman+pre-cog (not 100%, but close)
  • Blade with Ebony Blade
  • Afro with Ebony Blade

So overall:

  • We're faster and can/will blitz
  • We know their every move and can counter or pre-emptive strike
  • Counters to their magic everywhere (Ebony Blade, Nth Metal, blitz)
  • Counters to their forcefields everywhere (Ebony Blade, Nth Metal, blitz)
  • Counters to the Cold Field and Mirror teleporting with BP, Scourge of Erynis, Gravity, TK, blitz
  • Counters to TP with T-Spheres
  • Counters to Golden Claws with magic counters and SGW counters such as Emperor Scorpion and Reversing Mirror
  • They have no counters to us simply disarming them of most of their gear (well they have counters, but can't prevent it) which severely depowers them
  • They have no counters to long range attacks via Stargates
  • They have no counters to Speed blitz
  • They have no counters to T-Spheres attacking from long range (with gravity and stuff)
  • They have no way to kill or hurt us really
  • They have no counter to the Wushun Geyser making them forget should we get close
  • They have no counter to Precognition from various sources.
  • Thus we win with speed blitz, with head up fighting, with long range fighting, with counter fighting, you name it. No matter the battle, we win.

Nice debating with you. Good luck if you get by me.

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@thetruebarryallen: got my vote here brother. Well done. Feel that you provided a more solid argument, and all around more well rounded debate.

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@cosmicallyaware1: Thanks for the response & the vote, CA1! Means a lot!

lol, anytime brother, anytime. Now go do big things in my tourney RND2...ur up against iragexcudder this time. I expect a bad ass debate between you two............