@jashro44: No duh the mini game isn't canon. But the point is the creators of MK obviously think their characters are pretty powerful. And I guarantee them if you asked them if the likes of Liu Kang, Raiden, Goro, and etc. were capable of shattering Diamond they'd say yes. Especially now.
I'll believe it when they do it in canon.
Its technically canon since since Liu Kang is the champion of MK1 in canon and test your might is also canon, at least for the first game
Between matches the Tournament grandmasters will periodically test you warrior's might. Your warrior will be required to break an object with is bare hands- wood, stone, steel, ruby, or diamond.
@colliderz: hmmm that is actually helpful then if it's stated to happen in something official. I think then my views change on that. But hen one must accept all MK characters are equally strong which is inconsistent in itself. In the end X-Ray and fatalities are legit feats canon or not. They showcase a detail cutscene you have no control over. Test your might does not.
Monsterstomp and NickHero think otherwise, and basically rather see clear super humans with special abilities as featless. That's there problem.
@colliderz: I do not see why Sagat can't do the same either. He was the main champion of Street Fighter till Ryu beat him with Dark Ryu power, and the. Sagat beats on or match Ryu well after that in a few matches.
@colliderz: hmmm that is actually helpful then if it's stated to happen in something official. I think then my views change on that. But hen one must accept all MK characters are equally strong which is inconsistent in itself. In the end X-Ray and fatalities are legit feats canon or not. They showcase a detail cutscene you have no control over. Test your might does not.
Monsterstomp and NickHero think otherwise, and basically rather see clear super humans with special abilities as featless. That's there problem.
Actually I see that feat is only quantifiable for Kang since he is the canon champion of the tournament meaning he also cleared all the challenges, however he don't know how far the likes of Scorpion or Kano has made in the tournament to say smt on them.Secondary I also see X-Ray and fatalities as legit too since developers putting feats and moves in games that won't be quantifiable in canon doesn't makes much sense for me and I see this for not just for MK but other games too.For example IMO these are all pretty good speed feats for Gen even though he never used them in a cutscene or else
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I do not see why Sagat can't do the same either. He was the main champion of Street Fighter till Ryu beat him with Dark Ryu power, and the. Sagat beats on or match Ryu well after that in a few matches.
Pushing Ryu to his limits and going toe to toe with him is all good but from what I recall Udon Ryu had street level superhuman stats which more or less Scorpion and Sub-Zero has also showed next to their versatile power sets
@jashro44: We know that gameplay movesets aren't only used to display the characters's abilities because they also have instrumental value when setting up the combat mechanics of the game and are used for balancing as well; so it would seem like you're cherry picking to me when you take moves from the game that don't have proper grounding in the lore and try to attribute them to a specific character.
@jashro44: Liu Kang should be the exact same strength in the comics as he is in canon. In MK9 you are even allowed to punch straight through diamond as a mini game. I know awhile back a lot of people were complaining how MK9 made a lot of the characters weaker than they were before. But the guys at Netherrealm were trying to assure everyone that they were still as strong as they were then as they are now (Well as of MKX they are all much stronger than they were in the Malibu comments but you get the idea).
The mini game isn't canon.
"The mini game" is completely canon...for certain characters. TYM is a part of the original rules of the tournament, and as such, champions were "required" to pass the TYM test in order to continue to the next level. Liu Kang, Shang Tsung, Goro, The Great Kung Lao, they were all champions, thus they cleared the TYM challenge.
@jashro44: Liu Kang should be the exact same strength in the comics as he is in canon. In MK9 you are even allowed to punch straight through diamond as a mini game. I know awhile back a lot of people were complaining how MK9 made a lot of the characters weaker than they were before. But the guys at Netherrealm were trying to assure everyone that they were still as strong as they were then as they are now (Well as of MKX they are all much stronger than they were in the Malibu comments but you get the idea).
The mini game isn't canon.
"The mini game" is completely canon...for certain characters. TYM is a part of the original rules of the tournament, and as such, champions were "required" to pass the TYM test in order to continue to the next level. Liu Kang, Shang Tsung, Goro, The Great Kung Lao, they were all champions, thus they cleared the TYM challenge.
@jashro44: We know that gameplay movesets aren't only used to display the characters's abilities because they also have instrumental value when setting up the combat mechanics of the game and are used for balancing as well; so it would seem like you're cherry picking to me when you take moves from the game that don't have proper grounding in the lore and try to attribute them to a specific character.
@nick_hero22: I don't understand the wording of what you said :p your gonna have to dumb it down.
All though if you are basically saying that characters get scaled down in gameplay mechanics, than I agree. But that is why I said we look at the out of game feats to gauge how powerful the characters are. All though I am fine with saying stuff like Liu Kang can shoot fire balls, or turn into a dragon to bite a person in half. We just can't say things like liu kang vaporizes batman through his armour with his fire balls or his dragon form is powerful enough to bite luke cage in half because he doesn't have the feats to support those statements. I still think it shows his powers and abilities.
Using Kotal Kahn as an example we saw him blow up a pirate ship in the comics so we can say he is that powerful. But even if he never called down the sun in a cutscene or comic we would still know he was capable of such an ability because of his move set. We just wouldn't know how powerful his ability is.
@nick_hero22: I don't understand the wording of what you said :p your gonna have to dumb it down.
All though if you are basically saying that characters get scaled down in gameplay mechanics, than I agree. But that is why I said we look at the out of game feats to gauge how powerful the characters are. All though I am fine with saying stuff like Liu Kang can shoot fire balls, or turn into a dragon to bite a person in half. We just can't say things like liu kang vaporizes batman through his armour with his fire balls or his dragon form is powerful enough to bite luke cage in half because he doesn't have the feats to support those statements. I still think it shows his powers and abilities.
Using Kotal Kahn as an example we saw him blow up a pirate ship in the comics so we can say he is that powerful. But even if he never called down the sun in a cutscene or comic we would still know he was capable of such an ability because of his move set. We just wouldn't know how powerful his ability is.
What I'm saying is that a character's moveset isn't only there to just expand on that character's ability because these movesets and abilities have an impact on the fighting game engine in general and we know that characters have to take on specific archetype gameplay-wise in order to ensure the game has a balanced roster without any hax or broken characters, so the best to bypass all of this is to use the lore as a reference guide to what a character is able to do.
@nick_hero22: I don't understand the wording of what you said :p your gonna have to dumb it down.
All though if you are basically saying that characters get scaled down in gameplay mechanics, than I agree. But that is why I said we look at the out of game feats to gauge how powerful the characters are. All though I am fine with saying stuff like Liu Kang can shoot fire balls, or turn into a dragon to bite a person in half. We just can't say things like liu kang vaporizes batman through his armour with his fire balls or his dragon form is powerful enough to bite luke cage in half because he doesn't have the feats to support those statements. I still think it shows his powers and abilities.
Using Kotal Kahn as an example we saw him blow up a pirate ship in the comics so we can say he is that powerful. But even if he never called down the sun in a cutscene or comic we would still know he was capable of such an ability because of his move set. We just wouldn't know how powerful his ability is.
What I'm saying is that a character's moveset isn't only there to just expand on that character's ability because these movesets and abilities have an impact on the fighting game engine in general and we know that characters have to take on specific archetype gameplay-wise in order to ensure the game has a balanced roster without any hax or broken characters, so the best to bypass all of this is to use the lore as a reference guide to what a character is able to do.
I agree with that but I am just saying we get an idea of there abilities by looking at there move set. Do you disagree with the idea that Liu Kang can shoot fire balls for example? What about the idea he can transform into a dragon? Again I am not saying game mechanics are valid and I get things get scaled down I am just saying that those sorts of things are apart of Liu Kangs power set. How powerful his dragon form is, isn't something which can really be measured because it doesn't have feats. I don't believe we have a way to measure how powerful his fire balls are either.
@nick_hero22: I don't understand the wording of what you said :p your gonna have to dumb it down.
All though if you are basically saying that characters get scaled down in gameplay mechanics, than I agree. But that is why I said we look at the out of game feats to gauge how powerful the characters are. All though I am fine with saying stuff like Liu Kang can shoot fire balls, or turn into a dragon to bite a person in half. We just can't say things like liu kang vaporizes batman through his armour with his fire balls or his dragon form is powerful enough to bite luke cage in half because he doesn't have the feats to support those statements. I still think it shows his powers and abilities.
Using Kotal Kahn as an example we saw him blow up a pirate ship in the comics so we can say he is that powerful. But even if he never called down the sun in a cutscene or comic we would still know he was capable of such an ability because of his move set. We just wouldn't know how powerful his ability is.
What I'm saying is that a character's moveset isn't only there to just expand on that character's ability because these movesets and abilities have an impact on the fighting game engine in general and we know that characters have to take on specific archetype gameplay-wise in order to ensure the game has a balanced roster without any hax or broken characters, so the best to bypass all of this is to use the lore as a reference guide to what a character is able to do.
I agree with that but I am just saying we get an idea of there abilities by looking at there move set. Do you disagree with the idea that Liu Kang can shoot fire balls for example? What about the idea he can transform into a dragon? Again I am not saying game mechanics are valid and I get things get scaled down I am just saying that those sorts of things are apart of Liu Kangs power set. How powerful his dragon form is, isn't something which can really be measured because it doesn't have feats. I don't believe we have a way to measure how powerful his fire balls are either.
1) I don't disagree with the idea that Liu Kang can shoot fire balls because there are clear examples of him manipulating fire in the lore. Now, if you were to look at Liu Kang's moveset and came to the conclusion that he is a teleporter I would think that you are being a little disingenuous because there is no evidence of Liu Kang having that capability since every time he needed to go somewhere Raiden would teleport him.
2) Him being able to turn into a dragon is unfounded, so I would chalk it up to gameplay mechanics because him being able to turn into a dragon isn't something that is consistent with his portrayal in the lore.
3) Again, character movesets aren't only created to expand on a character's abilities though; so what criteria do you purpose outside of what I'm saying to distinguish moves that are viable and moves that are only there because of the mechanics and themes of the game?
3) Again, character movesets aren't only created to expand on a character's abilities though;
I don't agree with this but I don't have time to discuss this.
I don't see why not because there are plenty of abilities that are shown in the lore that aren't translatable to in-game fighting because they don't fit within the framework that the fighting game engine has created, or would make the character too hax and broken. You are choosing to look that this particular issue to narrowly.
3) Again, character movesets aren't only created to expand on a character's abilities though;
I don't agree with this but I don't have time to discuss this.
I don't see why not because there are plenty of abilities that are shown in the lore that aren't translatable to in-game fighting because they don't fit within the framework that the fighting game engine has created, or would make the character too hax and broken. You are choosing to look that this particular issue to narrowly.
So? I don't see what this has to do with the point. I already agreed things are scaled down in game play.
3) Again, character movesets aren't only created to expand on a character's abilities though;
I don't agree with this but I don't have time to discuss this.
I don't see why not because there are plenty of abilities that are shown in the lore that aren't translatable to in-game fighting because they don't fit within the framework that the fighting game engine has created, or would make the character too hax and broken. You are choosing to look that this particular issue to narrowly.
So? I don't see what this has to do with the point. I already agreed things are scaled down in game play.
Saying that they're scaled down presupposes that they are represented in the lore in some fashion, and that is the point I'm disputing because there are many abilities that aren't shown in the lore such as Liu Kang teleporting or turning into a dragon.
Saying that they're scaled down presupposes that they are represented in the lore in some fashion, and that is the point I'm disputing because there are many abilities that aren't shown in the lore such as Liu Kang teleporting or turning into a dragon.
IIRC when Liu Kang needed Raiden to teleport they were trying to teleport long distances. He can probably only teleport short distances (this comes down to the fact in game moves don't have measurable feats so we can't say Liu Kang can teleport 100ft because he's never shown it). I don't think there is anything that really contradicts these abilities.
Saying that they're scaled down presupposes that they are represented in the lore in some fashion, and that is the point I'm disputing because there are many abilities that aren't shown in the lore such as Liu Kang teleporting or turning into a dragon.
IIRC when Liu Kang needed Raiden to teleport they were trying to teleport long distances. He can probably only teleport short distances (this comes down to the fact in game moves don't have measurable feats so we can't say Liu Kang can teleport 100ft because he's never shown it). I don't think there is anything that really contradicts these abilities.
I don't think we are going to agree.
The point is that I don't agree Liu Kang can teleport at all. There is no reason to believe that he can teleport or turn into a dragon, and as I stated before just because it is a moveset doesn't mean it was created with the intentions of expanding upon a character's abilities.
Its funny because to me any movie or mini movie cutscene made that is like a movie with the player having no control over is a valid feat to me. Thats how it always been on the Vine till now it seems.
All these are valid cutscenes for the character, mini movies you have no control over whether game play or not.
or
Its NO DIFFERENT than the mini cutscenes in RPG games (Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross, Kingdom Hearts, ect) that we allow for feats when discussing moves or their magics. Its NO DIFFERENT than the games with fluid story and options that have different cutscenes depending on choices you make (Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age, Witcher, ect) that we allow for feats. All those things have in common is well made and clearly establish mini movies to judge power and effectiveness of a attack.
I love how MK is the only franchise targeted though for this.
Its funny because to me any movie or mini movie cutscene made that is like a movie with the player having no control over is a valid feat to me. Thats how it always been on the Vine till now it seems.
All these are valid cutscenes for the character, mini movies you have no control over whether game play or not.
or
Its NO DIFFERENT than the mini cutscenes in RPG games (Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross, Kingdom Hearts, ect) that we allow for feats when discussing moves or their magics. Its NO DIFFERENT than the games with fluid story and options that have different cutscenes depending on choices you make (Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age, Witcher, ect) that we allow for feats. All those things have in common is well made and clearly establish mini movies to judge power and effectiveness of a attack.
I love how MK is the only franchise targeted though for this.
This is a lie, and I take it from your post count that you haven't been on this site along of enough to state whether or not this is the norm which it isn't.
Its funny because to me any movie or mini movie cutscene made that is like a movie with the player having no control over is a valid feat to me. Thats how it always been on the Vine till now it seems.
All these are valid cutscenes for the character, mini movies you have no control over whether game play or not.
or
Its NO DIFFERENT than the mini cutscenes in RPG games (Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross, Kingdom Hearts, ect) that we allow for feats when discussing moves or their magics. Its NO DIFFERENT than the games with fluid story and options that have different cutscenes depending on choices you make (Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age, Witcher, ect) that we allow for feats. All those things have in common is well made and clearly establish mini movies to judge power and effectiveness of a attack.
I love how MK is the only franchise targeted though for this.
This is a lie, and I take it from your post count that you haven't been on this site along of enough to state whether or not this is the norm which it isn't.
Been on over 4 years. Your opinion matters little to me when I remember how bad you tried to low ball MK in the past threads :/.
Akuma destroys Raiden, Cammy stomps Sonya, Ryu annihilates Scorpion, Liu Kang should win against Chun Li after a good fight, and Sagat should handily beat Johnny. Street fighter: 4 MK: 1 really unfortunate since I prefer MK more
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