Straw Hats Vs Espada

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Woodward

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#1  Edited By Woodward

Law is also with the Straw Hats.

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SleepingSlaves

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#2  Edited By SleepingSlaves

The only relevant characters with the Straw Hats are Luffy, Law, and Zoro. I don't think that they're enough to carry against twelve people (some of whom have crazy hax of their own).

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Gilateen

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#3  Edited By Gilateen
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Undre

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@woodward: lol none of them can get around his respera. No way around Zommarus. Ability, lazan is just too much. And lets not sleep on zalaprato

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Gilateen

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@undre: Zommari ain’t doing a thing here

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Undre

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@gilateen: lol why not? He controls anything he looks at

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Gilateen

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#7  Edited By Gilateen

@undre: All Nico Robin has to do is catch him and then “CLUTCH”!!

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Undre

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Gilateen

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@undre: That depends on who kills first

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SleepingSlaves

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#10  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@gilateen: I didn't know if we were were counting Luppi and Lilynette.

On a side note regarding your arguments here, how would Robin be strong enough to do anything to Zommari? If I'm remembering right, no one she has ever taken out has been on the level of an Espada.

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BrainDrain

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Zoro solos.

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SleepingSlaves

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#12  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@braindrain said:

Zoro solos.

Grimmjow is enough to handle him until we get new feats.

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Gilateen

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@sleepingslaves: Dude How is grimmjow gonna handle Zoro? He can’t even beat Sanji

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SkySanji

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Lol at Grimmjow beating Zoro one 1080 pound phoenix in Grimmjow direction ends the fight.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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SleepingSlaves

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@skysanji: Grimmjow has already tanked stronger attacks, sorry.

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SkySanji

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@skysanji: Grimmjow has already tanked stronger attacks, sorry.

Scans pls, don't bother there isn't any.....

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BrainDrain

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@braindrain said:

Zoro solos.

Grimmjow is enough to handle him until we get new feats.

Laughable. Grimmjow gets stomped by someone like Sanji.

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SkySanji

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#18  Edited By SkySanji
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SleepingSlaves

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@skysanji:

Scans pls, don't bother there isn't any.....

I don't want to be that guy, but your grammar is kind of atrocious.

As for the scans, here you go:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In the above pages, we see Grimmjow casually stop a serious slash from Ichigo with his hand (of note is that it wasn't cut at all). I bring up this feat in particular due to something a far weaker Ichigo did back in the Soul Society:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Here, we see an injured and exhausted Shikai Ichigo clash with Kenpachi and slice down no less than ten skyscrapers. If we take into account the fact that he won the clash, then it's safe to say that he was responsible for over half of the destruction.

This feat is superior to what you have shown for Zoro already, so in no world is that attack doing anything to even base Grimmjow.

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SleepingSlaves

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@sleepingslaves said:
@braindrain said:

Zoro solos.

Grimmjow is enough to handle him until we get new feats.

Laughable. Grimmjow gets stomped by someone like Sanji.

All words, no substance.

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SkySanji

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#21  Edited By SkySanji

@sleepingslaves said:

@skysanji:

Scans pls, don't bother there isn't any.....

I don't want to be that guy, but your grammar is kind of atrocious.

As for the scans, here you go:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In the above pages, we see Grimmjow casually stop a serious slash from Ichigo with his hand (of note is that it wasn't cut at all). I bring up this feat in particular due to something a far weaker Ichigo did back in the Soul Society:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Here, we see an injured and exhausted Shikai Ichigo clash with Kenpachi and slice down no less than ten skyscrapers. If we take into account the fact that he won the clash, then it's safe to say that he was responsible for over half of the destruction.

This feat is superior to what you have shown for Zoro already, so in no world is that attack doing anything to even base Grimmjow.

Yeah no the Ichigo vs. Kenpachi feat has long since been debunked they destroyed MAYBE three or four buildings with that clash:

No Caption Provided

Not only that but it still can't be scaled since he used Zangetsu powers.

Meanwhile Zoro is cutting city's in half with air pressure from his sword.

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SleepingSlaves

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#23  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@skysanji:

Yeah no the Ichigo vs. Kenpachi feat has long since been debunked they destroyed MAYBE two buildings with that clash:

They were completely surrounded by buildings that were close to them before the clash, and we physically see them destroy more than that. It's nice that you're trying, but going the lowball route won't get you anywhere.

Not only that but it still can't be scaled since he used Zangetsu powers.

Zangetsu gave him enough power to get back up for one final blow. In addition to that, it's a little bit ridiculous to suggest that he was more powerful in that moment than he was against Grimmjow in Karakura Town.

Meanwhile Zoro is cutting city's in half with air pressure from his sword.

This has legitimately never happened, but nice sneaky edit there.

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SleepingSlaves

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#24  Edited By SleepingSlaves

Did I scare him away? I sure hope not. In any case, expect no replies from me until tomorrow (I've got work, so sleep is necessary).

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SkySanji

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#25  Edited By SkySanji

@sleepingslaves said:

@skysanji:

They were completely surrounded by buildings that were close to them before the clash, and we physically see them destroy more than that. It's nice that you're trying, but going the lowball route won't get you anywhere.

Im not lowballing I'll use your own scan to show you it was 6 buIL dings that got attacked in your scan you presented and only 3 or 4 of them actually got destroyed(middle panel at the bottom)

Here we see the buildings in the background:

No Caption Provided

Here in this scan we see those buildings surrounded by them still in tact and standing, no damage whatsoever

No Caption Provided

Even if I did say he destroyed 10 buildings Kenpachi responsible for that BUT let's say Ichigo was responsible for all of it because he won the clash

That's still only 10 skyscraper's even scaling Grimmjow to eat while in Base still isn't anywhere near Zoro's output Zoro can casually cut Galleons in Half heck even with a seppuku knife he cuts buildings.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I'm not even gonna mention Pica since if that's all you got then Zoro doesn't even need that feat to tear Grimmjow a new one.

Zangetsu gave him enough power to get back up for one final blow. In addition to that, it's a little bit ridiculous to suggest that he was more powerful in that moment than he was against Grimmjow in Karakura Town.

How so? we know Zangetsu (quincy or hollow) vastly increases his powers

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SleepingSlaves

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#26  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@skysanji: You caught me right as I was about to go to sleep.

Im not lowballing I'll use your own scan to show you it was 6 buIL dings that got attacked in your scan you presented

There were six that we could see. If you'd look with your eyes, we see earlier that one of those buildings is pretty big by itself, so it isn't weird that only six fit into a panel.

and only 3 or 4 of them actually got destroyed(middle panel at the bottom)

Blatantly untrue, as we see a lot more than that being sliced up.

Here in this scan we see those buildings surrounded by them still in tact and standing, no damage whatsoever

Those are all sufficiently far away, as we can see if we observe the perspective.

That's still only 10 skyscraper's even scaling Grimmjow to eat while in Base still isn't anywhere near Zoro's output

Another blatantly untrue statement.

Zoro can casually cut Galleons in Half heck even with a seppuku knife he cuts buildings.

Neither of those feats are impressive when compared to what Ichigo did.

How so? we know Zangetsu (quincy or hollow) vastly increases his powers

In this instance, he was only given enough power to get back up for one final attack. In addition to that, even his Shikai was improved after Yoruichi taught him Bankai due to how it refined how much control he had over his Reiatsu (meaning that he was most likely stronger in Karakura Town anyway).

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FaradaySloth

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If Espada start in base, Straw Hats win

If Espada are in released state, Zommari soloes.

No amount of “Zoro cut a tall rock man” changes the lack of hax resistance feats.

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SkySanji

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@skysanji: You caught me right as I was about to go to sleep.

There were six that we could see. If you'd look with your eyes, we see earlier that one of those buildings is pretty big by itself, so it isn't weird that only six fit into a panel.

Can't refute the scan that same large building is right behind them after they clash we see a full spread of their clash and there are only six buildings.

Blatantly untrue, as we see a lot more than that being sliced up.

Cannot refute the scan, next

Those are all sufficiently far away, as we can see if we observe the perspective.

This is the same perspective arguement used on The Dangai's hill vape feat when it's not that big of a difference those buildings are barely far from them.

No Caption Provided

As you can see on the right one of the buildings that got destroyed os right next to the buildings that are suppose to be the distance, so moot point is moot.

Another blatantly untrue statement.

You still yet to prove how 10 skyscraper's would be impressive to Zoro that's ignoring That Kenpachi did half of the damage.

Neither of those feats are impressive when compared to what Ichigo did.

Keyword casual.....meanwhile Ichigo is borrowing Zangetsu power to preform his feat and it's a combined effort with the help of Kenny.

Zoro's Kraken feat while under 10,000 meters of undewater pressure slaps Ichigo's and Kenny's feat and will oneshot ressurecion Grimmjow as well.

No Caption Provided

In this instance, he was only given enough power to get back up for one final attack. In addition to that, even his Shikai was improved after Yoruichi taught him Bankai due to how it refined how much control he had over his Reiatsu (meaning that he was most likely stronger in Karakura Town anyway).

Fair enough, but that only means he got unquantifiablyour stronger, so Grimmjow stopping his attack means he stopped an attack from a stronger Ichigo that's all.

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FaradaySloth

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What a terrible lowball of Ichigo-Kenpachi's feat, but not surprised to see who it is doing it.

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Full123

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I believe that Ichigo caused that much damage in Soul Society, however, it's about a city-block level feat, while Pica (the guy Zoro near bisected) is mountain sized.

As for this clash, well, most of the Straw Hat are fodder, but the Monster Trio alone should be able to take out some of the weaker ones which are more on the slow side. And it's the weaker ones who have the strongest hax anyway, so that shouldn't be a big factor. However, I can't think of a way for the Straw Hats to counter Cero Metraletta, except maybe for Law to switch someone in front of it? Idk.

I think Straw Hats pull this off high-diff-mid-diff.

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InvadedTBD

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Espada win, Barragan and Stark are MVPs.

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SleepingSlaves

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#32  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@skysanji:

Can't refute the scan that same large building is right behind them after they clash we see a full spread of their clash and there are only six buildings.

It isn't, though? I don't know where you're getting this, as using your eyes isn't as hard as you're making it seem.

Cannot refute the scan, next

What? We see more than "three or four" being sliced up, therefore more than three or four got sliced up.

This is the same perspective arguement used on The Dangai's hill vape feat when it's not that big of a difference those buildings are barely far from them.

It definitely isn't. I don't even agree with the idea that Dangai Ichigo destroyed a mountain or tanked any mountain busting attacks mainly due to how we know for a fact that there weren't any mountains where they were fighting in the Rukongai.

As you can see on the right one of the buildings that got destroyed os right next to the buildings that are suppose to be the distance, so moot point is moot.

If you look right in front of Kenpachi you'll see nothing but white, indicating that all of the buildings in that direction were destroyed along with a few off to each side of them. It's not hard to understand, especially when we have a scan specifically showing that they destroyed up to ten skyscrapers as well as a scan showing the aftermath. I know you have a hate boner for anything that isn't One Piece, but this is honestly ridiculous.

You still yet to prove how 10 skyscraper's would be impressive to Zoro that's ignoring That Kenpachi did half of the damage.

When did I set out to prove that (even though it's factually true)? I said that Grimmjow has tanked stronger attacks than what you had shown for Zoro, which is correct considering that attack would only amount to destroying a few of the much smaller building below.

Zoro's Kraken feat while under 10,000 meters of undewater pressure slaps Ichigo's and Kenny's feat and will oneshot ressurecion Grimmjow as well.

Sorry, but that's still a big no. In his Resurrección, he was evenly clashing with Visored Bankai Ichigo using nothing but his arms, so Zoro would be lucky to even scratch him.

I might be done with this argument, as I don't really see it going anywhere, but I appreciate the time you've put in to actually debate with me as opposed to what most others tend to do (that being the hit and run tactic).

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SleepingSlaves

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#33  Edited By SleepingSlaves

@full123:

However, I can't think of a way for the Straw Hats to counter Cero Metraletta, except maybe for Law to switch someone in front of it? Idk

Cero Metralleta is only "strong" because there are a lot of them. Individually, they only took out buildings and other unimpressively sized structures (whereas a Cero Oscurus from Ulquiorra shaved off almost half of Las Noches' canopy). I honestly don't think the Straw Hats would have a big problem with that.

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cromulor

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Espada win if they get into their released states.

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FaradaySloth

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@full123:

However, I can't think of a way for the Straw Hats to counter Cero Metraletta, except maybe for Law to switch someone in front of it? Idk

Cero Metralleta is only "strong" because there are a lot of them. Individually, they only took out buildings and other unimpressively sized structures (whereas a Cero Oscurus from Ulquiorra shaved off almost half of Las Noches' canopy). I honestly don't think the Straw Hats would have a big problem with that.

Although hi Ceroes seem to be building level, its been confirmed that Starrk>Ulquiorra, so the Ceroes pack enough potency. They hurt Shunsui pretty bad, while Shunsui seemed to be fine after clashing a morals off Yamamoto, who is casually multi-city level. Then with Ulquiorra stating all Espada 4 and up could destroy Las Noches, so calling Starrk's Ceroes building level seems pretty lowballish.

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SleepingSlaves

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@faradaysloth:

Although hi Ceroes seem to be building level, its been confirmed that Starrk>Ulquiorra

Confirmed by who? If you're referring to their rankings, we don't know what the criteria is for placing them in their spots. In addition to that, they seem to be organized based on how much Reiatsu they have (which, as you know, doesn't necessarily transfer over to how strong they are overall).

so the Ceroes pack enough potency.

Starrk being ranked above Ulquiorra doesn't necessarily mean that his Cero Metralleta are stronger than a Cero Oscurus.

They hurt Shunsui pretty bad, while Shunsui seemed to be fine after clashing a morals off Yamamoto

We never saw Shunsui actually tank any attacks from Yamamoto, so I don't think that this can be used. In addition to that, we definitely never saw him get hit by an energy attack before that.

who is casually multi-city level.

Itto Kaso is frequently used to downplay how strong Yamamoto is (not saying you're doing that here), especially when he has better feats than what it implies. I'd say that clashing and pushing Aizen would constitute at least mountain level physicals and flames in his Shikai.

Then with Ulquiorra stating all Espada 4 and up could destroy Las Noches, so calling Starrk's Ceroes building level seems pretty lowballish.

He said that they could destroy Las Noches after entering their Resurrección or by using a Gran Rey Cero. It wasn't specifically stated that their normal Cero techniques could destroy Las Noches, nor do the feats back up that being the case.

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BrainDrain

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@sleepingslaves: I'm sorry, but did you call not replying late night on a national holiday scaring someone away? If so that'd be the most absolutely pathetic, no-life'd, comical statement I've ever heard.

Zoro draws his blade and oneshots the entirety of the Espada. Superior speed, strength, durability, and AoE assure all of these things. If I have to grab the scans I promise I'll dismiss you by the third reply.

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Saxz

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Espada wins.

1-Raining nuke

2-Aoe Aging hax

3-walking kryotonite

4-Blitzing missile spear nuke

5-Crazy hard steel skin

6-H2H expert

7-9-hax that can potentially one shot

10-Kills Chopper

Tier Hallebery is mvp, she can potentially incapacitate half the team main players with her water attacks.

While Stark and Ulquiora Rain down nukes, literally.Don't get me started on Respira which can one-shot on contact

Espada 5-10 will keep the rest of the Strawhat busy and will outhax/overpower them eventually.

Or the Espada could just Yawn and eat all their souls

Espada wins 9/10,maybe Law could make things a bit difficult and the monster trio strength are impressive but not by bleach standards

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SleepingSlaves

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@braindrain:

I'm sorry, but did you call not replying late night on a national holiday scaring someone away?

I'm sorry, did you just assume that everyone on this site lives in America? In addition to that, he went from replying very quickly to not replying at all and I assumed that he had either lost interest or ran off.

If so that'd be the most absolutely pathetic, no-life'd, comical statement I've ever heard.

Then you haven't heard many comical statements at all.

Zoro draws his blade and oneshots the entirety of the Espada.

That's a bad joke.

Superior speed, strength, durability, and AoE assure all of these things. If I have to grab the scans I promise I'll dismiss you by the third reply.

You can't prove any of those things to be true with or without scans. I've already been down this road with the other dude, so I'll kindly see myself out (repeating the same thing over and over again to the same idiots gets old).

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Kalebsmarty156

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Eh. Strawhats with mid to high diff.

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FaradaySloth

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@sleepingslaves:

Confirmed by who? If you're referring to their rankings, we don't know what the criteria is for placing them in their spots. In addition to that, they seem to be organized based on how much Reiatsu they have (which, as you know, doesn't necessarily transfer over to how strong they are overall).

Reiatsu transfers over to potency which i what I was trying to say. Reiatsu doesn't depict how "strong" you are actually, if you were meaning it physically.

Starrk being ranked above Ulquiorra doesn't necessarily mean that his Cero Metralleta are stronger than a Cero Oscurus.

Oscuras is more destructive visually, but that doesn't mean Cero Metralleta couldn't cause the same damage or can't hurt stronger opponents

We never saw Shunsui actually tank any attacks from Yamamoto, so I don't think that this can be used. In addition to that, we definitely never saw him get hit by an energy attack before that.

Shunsui's fight with Yamamoto lasted for at least a dozen chapter I believe, sure it was off-screen, but he appeared relatively fine afterward, and he and Jushiro did clash to Yama head-on on-screen. I think it's reasonable to assume Shunsui isn't a slack in this category.

He said that they could destroy Las Noches after entering their Resurrección or by using a Gran Rey Cero. It wasn't specifically stated that their normal Cero techniques could destroy Las Noches, nor do the feats back up that being the case.

Cero Metrallata is specifically used for Starrk, just like how Respira was used for Barragan, or Cascada used for Tier

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SleepingSlaves

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@faradaysloth:

Reiatsu transfers over to potency which i what I was trying to say.

If that were the case, then Yammy would have one-shot both Kenpachi and Byakuya with his Cero. It doesn't really transfer as well as you say, nor does Shunsui have the accompanying durability feats to make it consistent if it did.

Oscuras is more destructive visually, but that doesn't mean Cero Metralleta couldn't cause the same damage or can't hurt stronger opponents

This is true on a technical level, but not in this case. I apologize, but I'm still not buying your potency argument.

he and Jushiro did clash to Yama head-on on-screen

They did, but we never got any confirmation (visually or otherwise) that either of them tanked an energy attack from Yamamoto. In addition to that, clashing with someone is a durability feat, but not one that would really help in this instance.

Cero Metrallata is specifically used for Starrk, just like how Respira was used for Barragan, or Cascada used for Tier

It's just another type of Cero as far as I'm concerned. I don't think it was ever stated that only Starrk could use it or anything like that.

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Full123

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@saxz said:

Espada wins.

1-Raining nuke

I'd be hard-pressed to call them "nukes". I just went back and read the Espada arc, and the Cero Metraletta is less powerful than I remember, its just a barrage of normal powered Ceros, which have never been shown to be anything but building-level. At most, I'd put them small-town level, which nearly all of the Monster Trio and even some from outside the Trio (Chopper and Franky) can tank.

2-Aoe Aging hax

3-walking kryotonite

She's not as big of a deal as you seem to think. Only one member of the Monster Trio would be taken out by her powers (if you count it as seawater), and she's still vulnerable to being Room'd by Law, considering she has less speed feats compared to Doffy, who still got blitzed. Or just slashed up by Zoro, considering her physicals, except by scaling, aren't mountain level+

4-Blitzing missile spear nuke

This is hard to deal with, but the Monster Trio have shown to be able to survive attacks of this degree, and can easily dodge the spear owing to them being much faster. Since Ulquiorra in his strongest form got one-shotted by Hollow Ichigo, whose attack should be comparable to 1080 Pound Phoenix, he can be dealt with. He will kill 90% the weaker Straw Hats though (except Franky)

5-Crazy hard steel skin

6-H2H expert

These two are literally useless. Nnoitra got oneshotted by Kenpachi holding his sword with two hands, so any town level attack (like, say, Jet Pistol) should take him out. And Grimmjow got damaged by Vizard Bankai Ichigo, so Zoro should comfortably be able to bisect him.

7-9-hax that can potentially one shot

10-Kills Chopper

Not a single one of these last three have an answer for Invisible Raid Suit Sanji just one-shotting them all. Also, Yammy isn't easily killing Monster-form Chopper, even in his rage form, which was literally fodder to some battle-tired Captains. Not to mention that Luffy can see the future now, so there's a doubt how much their hax would work.

Don't get me started on Respira which can one-shot on contact

True, but also the way Barragan died was by having a cut off arm teleported inside him, which Law can do, and DID do to Trebol, so you can't say that he never did it. He can be dealt with by Law.

Or the Espada could just Yawn and eat all their souls

If we're using an alternate universe where Straw Hats have Reiatsu, then it only makes sense that their Reiatsu would be equalized to the Espadas, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a battle.

monster trio strength are impressive but not by bleach standards

Huh? I agree that they aren't too impressive in the wider Bleach-verse, but up until the Espada arc the strongest feat shown was maybe Mountain level, which would place the Monster Trio comfortably in the upper bounds of that point in Bleach.

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Undre

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#44  Edited By Undre

@kalebsmarty156: @skysanji:lol a depressed bankia ichigo blocked a attack that can split a city in half

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Lol even chad can replicate the 1080 pound gun

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And chad cant even damage base espada.

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Zoro draws his blade and oneshots the entirety of the Espada. Superior speed, strength, durability, and AoE assure all of these things. If I have to grab the scans I promise I'll dismiss you by the third reply.

Lol, saying that Zoro could one-shot the entire Espada at once is ludicrous. I do agree that he probably could one-shot them all individually, but even his strongest attack which bisected Pica wouldn't kill them all at once.

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@undre said:

@kalebsmarty156: @skysanji:lol a depressed bankia ichigo blocked a attack that can split a city in half

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Using post-Espada arc feats to scale to the Espadas? That doesnt make any sense. In the Espada arc, Ichigo needed to reach his strongest form to stand up to a city-mountain level attack.

Lol even chad can replicate the 1080 pound gun

Lolwut?

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Kalebsmarty156

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@undre: Why you tag me? I never said anything about Zoro's feat.

Don't drag me into this...

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WorldofRuin6

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Strawhats high diff. It's worth noting that the Strawhats have way better teamwork compared to the Espada who never really cooperated with eachother.

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Undre

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#49  Edited By Undre

@full123: that ichgo was actual depressed and doesnt scale to VL or even his old mask form that fought grimmjow and ulqiora

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@undre said:

@full123: that ichgo was actual depressed and doesnt scale to VL or even his old mask form that fought grimmjow and ulqiora

Even gin points it out

Can you send me the panel where Ichigo actually blocks the attack? Also, isn't Gin actually trying to kill Aizen? So it makes sense that he would go easy on Ichigo, but even forgetting that, I thought that attack cut the city because the blade was very long, not because of like a slash or its own power? Correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Also, when or how could Chad replicate 1080 Pound Phoenix, ignoring the final arc, because Bleach kind of went off the walls with the power level regarding that one.