She ain't Thor, and Thor was humilliated by Emma and Cyclops with just a fraction
Storm harmed a god who easily tanked a black hole. That's above the phoenix 5 showings Let's not. Also Thor defeated Rachel with the phoenix so don't even go there with that PIS trying down play thor
@kasya_carey: Lol the real PIS was Rachel getting beat by Thor considering she punked Galactus, and had a fight with Necron where they ended up destroying a solar system
basically busting a planet and throwing moons at eachother....
@kasya_carey: Lol the real PIS was Rachel getting beat by Thor considering she punked Galactus, and had a fight with Necron where they ended up destroying a solar system
basically busting a planet and throwing moons at eachother....
Classic Thor is not a joke. umm pretty sure it was starving galactus
also Necron would stomp rachel that moment was also pis. Necron literally is stronger and trained the multiveral sorcerer Merlyn, who has multiple feats of being multiversal with his own magic. not to mention he had the "anti phoenix power too" Yeah Rachel winning is pure PIS
@kasya_carey: Lol yes even Classic Thor beating that version of Rachel is very much PIS.
Necron literally was going back and fourth with her in the same story where all of that backstory plus the Phoenix being multiversal was revealed.
Your basically saying "The story that told his origin and lead to the fight, made him sound more awesome then her even though she beat him in the end"
Necron is very low multiversal. And entirely situational (worst then Merlyn) as he needed the Phoenix and his tower to achieve his multiversal feat. And let's not wank the Anti-Phoenix...its literally a small fraction of the Phoenix that he had been baking for a few billion years.
Starving Galactus or not doesnt matter.
The first time fed Galactus met Rachel, she basically told him after she threw his Herald at him and knocked him on his ass that the only reason she was surrendering was to save her friends. She was still shit talking while surrendering.
When she punked Galactus the second time, it was the full power of the Phoenix reunited with the anti-Phoenix. Which is why Phoenix didnt even realize she destroyed a planet while beating him. It's the "Oh shit moment that lead to her gaining all the power of the Phoenix"
@kasya_carey: Lol yes even Classic Thor beating that version of Rachel is very much PIS.
Necron literally was going back and fourth with her in the same story where all of that backstory plus the Phoenix being multiversal was revealed.
-This is not multiversal. The tower is connected to very plane in existence which stores the matrix energy. Phoenix just projected its essence in it
Your basically saying "The story that told his origin and lead to the fight, made him sound more awesome then her even though she beat him in the end"
Necron is very low multiversal. And entirely situational (worst then Merlyn) as he needed the Phoenix and his tower to achieve his multiversal feat. And let's not wank the Anti-Phoenix...its literally a small fraction of the Phoenix that he had been baking for a few billion years.
-Merlyn is multiversal and Necron is above him. Only person out the group who is low multiversal is Roma. The tower stores the energy he compressed together. The magic Merlyn took from him. He still had superior power than Merlyn and had phoenix powers. That's not wank. There are different level of multiversal as you said. Nercon is still multiversal on his own.
Not to mentions she did not defeat Necron by overpowering him or etc.
Starving Galactus or not doesnt matter.
The first time fed Galactus met Rachel, she basically told him after she threw his Herald at him and knocked him on his ass that the only reason she was surrendering was to save her friends. She was still shit talking while surrendering.
- He was weak when she fought him . Not the same
When she punked Galactus the second time, it was the full power of the Phoenix reunited with the anti-Phoenix. Which is why Phoenix didnt even realize she destroyed a planet while beating him. It's the "Oh shit moment that lead to her gaining all the power of the Phoenix"
When she punked Galactus the second time, it was the full power of the Phoenix reunited with the anti-Phoenix. Which is why Phoenix didnt even realize she destroyed a planet while beating him. It's the "Oh shit moment that lead to her gaining all the power of the Phoenix"
When she punked Galactus the second time, it was the full power of the Phoenix reunited with the anti-Phoenix. Which is why Phoenix didnt even realize she destroyed a planet while beating him. It's the "Oh shit moment that lead to her gaining all the power of the Phoenix"
1- Yea the Phoenix is multiversal is established in that story. Tower and that point are 2 different ones.
2- What feat puts Necron above Merlyn? What Multiversal feat does he have after the Tower instance? How do you even explain that he didn't have the Anti-Phoenix after fighting Feron??? I mean the story literally starts with him going after the Anti-Phoenix and then going after Rachel.
3- I didn't say she overpowerd Necron. I said she had a fight with him that destroyed a solar system. She threw him through a planet. They through moons at eachother and a sun collapsed in their faces. But YOUR telling me that Thor countering her with a blast isn't PIS.
BUT for the record he wasn't stronger then Rachel, She literally calls it a STALEMATE in your own scan.
SO: How is it that in the ONE story that features him, where his backstory is told, where he has his ONLY fight where it's said on PANEL that he and Rachel would've destroyed the universe if they kept fighting. That her beating him is PIS?
Especially when it was established 25 issues BEFORE the fight that Rachel's Phoenix was draining power from life and stars in the universe?
You can't have PIS in your one and only fight if it's at cosmic levels.
4- No, Galactus was not hungry when she fought him
He literally ATE an alternate earth in issue 14 of Excalibur. When he comes back in issue 25, she threw Nova at him and when she surrenders herself she still implies she could take him.
Exaclibur 14Excalibur 25
5- Later on Phoenix Possessed Rachel Destroys a planet while beating Hungry Galactus, and then gives Rachel it's full power. Because it feels bad
1- Yea the Phoenix is multiversal is established in that story. Tower and that point are 2 different ones.
-I take that back Feron as the phoenix host established the towers which multiversal
2- What feat puts Necron above Merlyn? What Multiversal feat does he have after the Tower instance? How do you even explain that he didn't have the Anti-Phoenix after fighting Feron??? I mean the story literally starts with him going after the Anti-Phoenix and then going after Rachel.
That he is a sorcerer supreme. Merlyn knew these events would happen he literally had to fake his death to plot against. He literally said he did all this because Necrom is a powerful opponent and he could be exposed to his attacks. He defeated Feron with his OWN magic, who was hosting the phoenix, who created the tower.
3- I didn't say she overpowerd Necron. I said she had a fight with him that destroyed a solar system. She threw him through a planet. They through moons at eachother and a sun collapsed in their faces. But YOUR telling me that Thor countering her with a blast isn't PIS.
-Rachel was not always consistently at these levels. But on average she is definitely stronger than the phoenix 5. Idk know if Thor was amped with odin force or not though. But what I do know the phoenix 5 don't have a feat to measure up to Storm harming a god tanking a black hole and ripping the fabric between the negative zone and 616 universe.
BUT for the record he wasn't stronger then Rachel, She literally calls it a STALEMATE in your own scan.
-He could have. She was also being hammered in their fight. She calls it a stalemate cause they literally fighting over absorbing phoenix energy. he defeated Feron with his own magic. Feron was hosting the phoenix and was doing multiversal feats. Not only Nercom had the anti phoenix to boost his powers a bit
SO: How is it that in the ONE story that features him, where his backstory is told, where he has his ONLY fight where it's said on PANEL that he and Rachel would've destroyed the universe if they kept fighting. That her beating him is PIS?
Especially when it was established 25 issues BEFORE the fight that Rachel's Phoenix was draining power from life and stars in the universe?
-For a fact Necrom defeated Feron when he had the phoenix powers. He had Merlyn, who is a paygrade above Rachel fake his death so he can plot.
You can't have PIS in your one and only fight if it's at cosmic levels.
-Well it is Necrom defeated a superior avatar
4- No, Galactus was not hungry when she fought him
He literally ATE an alternate earth in issue 14 of Excalibur. When he comes back in issue 25, she threw Nova at him and when she surrenders herself she still implies she could take him.
-Could take him does mean defeat. I could take on a Lion does not mean I'll win
Exaclibur 14Excalibur 25
5- Later on Phoenix Possessed Rachel Destroys a planet while beating Hungry Galactus, and then gives Rachel it's full power. Because it feels bad
1- Rachel met death in the same issue she let Galactus drain her. He sites Jean Grey's conversation with him. The one where he explains to Jean that in no uncertain terms that the Phoenix's power is hers and her childrens.
There are no "superior" host. And if there were it wouldn't be Feron or Necron given that Feron didn't have the full Phoenix force when he lost. The Anti-Phoenix is literally just the portion of the Phoenix that Necron had.
2- Rachel's power level's were consistently busted in almost every single arc she appeared in. From gathering souls to open a hole in the Mkrann crystal that would destroy the world. To being sited as having the power to drain life force from the universe. To making stars go out when her power is drained. To stretching minds across the cosmos. To fueling Adult Franklin Richards reality warps with no side effect, To overwhelming the beyonder with the totality of life in the universe, tanking nukes, jumping realities, stargates...etc
The inconsistencies are WAAAAAAAY out of the park low showings.
3- Necron has this whacky scaling where he's supposedly stronger then Merlyn, but has no showings of it aside from fighting a dude he was training who was tapping the Force while a rookie Merlyn ran off to save the multiverse.
Merlyn even comments that he formed the Britain corps in part to search for Necron.
Hell Merlyn even says that he mastered the multiverse energy that Necron was trying to unleash while Feron fought him.
The whole arc plays out like Necron is flying under the radar to eventually get the Phoenix....and then Merlyn pops out right before the fight with Rachel starts to say "This was my plan all along"
There is NOTHING to say that Necron is superior to Rachel, especially seeing as the first thing he has to do after he joins with the Anti-Phoenix is drain life force. And the best feat he had that wasn't in a flash back was controlling zombies and controlling a pawn from another dimension
1- Rachel met death in the same issue she let Galactus drain her. He sites Jean Grey's conversation with him. The one where he explains to Jean that in no uncertain terms that the Phoenix's power is hers and her childrens.
-alright
There are no "superior" host. And if there were it wouldn't be Feron or Necron given that Feron didn't have the full Phoenix force when he lost. The Anti-Phoenix is literally just the portion of the Phoenix that Necron had.
-Feron had the full phoenix and got defeated
2- Rachel's power level's were consistently busted in almost every single arc she appeared in. From gathering souls to open a hole in the Mkrann crystal that would destroy the world. To being sited as having the power to drain life force from the universe. To making stars go out when her power is drained. To stretching minds across the cosmos. To fueling Adult Franklin Richards reality warps with no side effect, To overwhelming the beyonder with the totality of life in the universe, tanking nukes, jumping realities, stargates...etc
-overwhelming beyonder? I would like to see it
The inconsistencies are WAAAAAAAY out of the park low showings.
3- Necron has this whacky scaling where he's supposedly stronger then Merlyn, but has no showings of it aside from fighting a dude he was training who was tapping the Force while a rookie Merlyn ran off to save the multiverse.
-Necrom did not appear much in marvel. That one feat shows his power is multiversal
Merlyn even comments that he formed the Britain corps in part to search for Necron.
-He also stated he faked his death because Nercom was a powerful opponent.
Hell Merlyn even says that he mastered the multiverse energy that Necron was trying to unleash while Feron fought him.
-He didn't master it right away
The whole arc plays out like Necron is flying under the radar to eventually get the Phoenix....and then Merlyn pops out right before the fight with Rachel starts to say "This was my plan all along"
-Yes he faked his death because he had plan
There is NOTHING to say that Necron is superior to Rachel, especially seeing as the first thing he has to do after he joins with the Anti-Phoenix is drain life force. And the best feat he had that wasn't in a flash back was controlling zombies and controlling a pawn from another dimension
Merlyn casually saying he'd beaten Necron by setting him up against Rachel and that to him this was just part of an elaborate game
Unless were somehow saying that Necron is more powerful then the guy who Mastered the power that was supposed to make him more powerful...this is nuff said
Feron had the FULL phoenix and got defeated. Necrom only torn a portion of it while the rest fled. Necrom beat a phoenix host with the full phoenix not amped
Beyonder
I need context seems like PIS
didn't he overpower and chock her?
Merlyn casually saying he'd beaten Necron by setting him up against Rachel and that to him this was just part of an elaborate game
-As you can see Merlyn stated that him playing dead would guard him from an attack from Necrom as he stated he was very powerful
Unless were somehow saying that Necron is more powerful then the guy who Mastered the power that was supposed to make him more powerful...this is nuff said
-If Merlyn was more powerful why didn't he use his already multiversal magic and amp it with the matrix energy?
Every single p5 member wrecked Thor. Nothing suggests Storm to be greater than Thor.
P5 namor who should be the 2nd weakest host w/o the Phoenix force wrecked thor along with the rest of the Avengers.
The phoenix 5 didn't even have showings on green phoenix level so Thor losing is pure PIS. Only person doing something powerful was Cyclops with the full phoenix. Not to mention Namor was literally getting merked at first by everyone. Storm has actually hurt a god which survived a black hole and ripped the fabric between two universes.
@kasya_carey: Idk what else you want if you disagree with the words on the panel.
He tore out the portion that connected Feron to the Phoenix.
If he could beat a full powered Phoenix host without help, then he wouldnt need the Phoenix to begin with.
- Beyonder said he gave Rachel the power to kill him. She flew into space doing crazy shit for a while and flew back to earth when she calmed down.
He came to get the power and shes like "here have it!" and gives him more then what he gave her. Something he says he cant stop. And it overwhelms him with the normal Phoenix crap...life/rebirth the universe and crap.
He then pledges to be a good boy and flies off to be retconned later on.
- Lol Merlyn faking his death does not imply he would be beaten by Necron. He says the entire thing is game, he literally hid himself so Necron wouldnt focus on trying to take him out, and instead went for the Phoenix.
I don't understand how you believe:
(A) Necron is strong enough to beat Merlyn + (B) Necron is strong enough to beat a Phoenix host and yet still somehow get to (C) Necron still needs the Phoenix force.
It doesn't add up.
If Necron was more powerful then Merlyn and the Phoenix then he wouldnt have needed the Phoenix or the matrix energy.
You can be less powerful then someone and still be threat. But your not gonna sell me on him being stronger then both the amps he waited millennia to get.
@kasya_carey: Idk what else you want if you disagree with the words on the panel.
-because he defeated a full phoenix host, who was performing multiversal feats
He tore out the portion that connected Feron to the Phoenix.
-Feron had the full phoenix fighting Necrom. The other part literally fled in confusion when Necrom ripped a portion out.
If he could beat a full powered Phoenix host without help, then he wouldnt need the Phoenix to begin with.
-Necrom is literally power hungry. It shows. He wanted the matrix energy to the phoenix power.
- Beyonder said he gave Rachel the power to kill him. She flew into space doing crazy shit for a while and flew back to earth when she calmed down.
-It sounds like Rachel did not have the power on her own
He came to get the power and shes like "here have it!" and gives him more then what he gave her. Something he says he cant stop. And it overwhelms him with the normal Phoenix crap...life/rebirth the universe and crap.
-I seen scans of Beyonder easily tanking Rachel and choking her
He then pledges to be a good boy and flies off to be retconned later on.
- Lol Merlyn faking his death does not imply he would be beaten by Necron. He says the entire thing is game, he literally hid himself so Necron wouldnt focus on trying to take him out, and instead went for the Phoenix.
I don't understand how you believe:
(A) Necron is strong enough to beat Merlyn + (B) Necron is strong enough to beat a Phoenix host and yet still somehow get to (C) Necron still needs the Phoenix force.
It doesn't add up.
- I don't think you understand Nercom is power hungry. Merlyn himself is multiversal with his own magic but yet he is greedy with the matrix energy.
If Necron was more powerful then Merlyn and the Phoenix then he wouldnt have needed the Phoenix or the matrix energy.
-It was literally shown Nercom whooping Feron with the full phoenix a@@ and Merlyn stating on panel that he had to fake his death to avoid an attack from Necrom and his is very powerful
You can be less powerful then someone and still be threat. But your not gonna sell me on him being stronger then both the amps he waited millennia to get.
- But you're saying Necrom is weak though when he already defeated a multiversal empowered host with his own magic. Not to mention the phoenix amped his abilities Merlyn would have had no problem and easily faced in. But Necrom is more skilled being Merlyn teacher, more powerful obviously to fake someone's death, and was amped.
@kasya_carey: Beyonder stalked Rachel for a few issues before she got the Phoenix. As soon as she did she flew to San Francisco and tried to Nuke him. After that he gave her power. She then flew into space with the X-Men and Starjammer souls and was going to RIP a hole in the universe with the Mkrann crystal to kill him.
When she got back to Earth he asked for the power and she gave him everything he gave her PLUS some.
As for the rest...I dont get how you think that Feron had the Phoenix force or that Necron is this insane multiversal threat when we literally see him scheming in that arc and it's not nearly that.
The fact that he then got the Anti-Phoenix and was still struggling with Rachel should be enough to tell you what was intended.
I'm done though, weve both said our pieces twice over theres nowhere else to go with this
The phoenix 5 didn't even have showings on green phoenix level so Thor losing is pure PIS.
It was PIS? It was clearly the writter's intent for the P5 to written above Herald level. All 5 put Thor down. They also put down other characters like Gladiator. Stop with the lowballing. Thor beating Phoenix Rachel is a feat. ( It doesn't mean Thor is above the Phoenix Force.) Magik defeated Legion w/o the Phoenix force. It's a feat for Magik. I don't go around saying Magik is more power than Legion.
Only person doing something powerful was Cyclops with the full phoenix. Not to mention Namor was literally getting merked at first by everyone.
Namor thrashed the Avengers Thor included. I have no idea where you get the idea where he got merked. He got hit and then proceeded to stomp on the Avengers (breaking Rulk's arm and no selling Thor's attack) Phoenix Scott with 1/5 block Mjolinr with his pinky. The only thing that saved the Avenger's was Wanda's magic.
Storm has actually hurt a god which survived a black hole and ripped the fabric between two universes.
Oh please putting that "god" down was a team effort. The x-jets weapons hurt him. Captain Britain and Colossus were taking out chunks of his body, Magik trapped and immobilized him, Storm added some damage and finally he was put down by the bloody X-jet. So much for his black hole level durability.
The phoenix 5 didn't even have showings on green phoenix level so Thor losing is pure PIS.
It was PIS? It was clearly the writter's intent for the P5 to written above Herald level. All 5 put Thor down. They also put down other characters like Gladiator. Stop with the lowballing. Thor beating Phoenix Rachel is a feat. ( It doesn't mean Thor is above the Phoenix Force.) Magik defeated Legion w/o the Phoenix force. It's a feat for Magik. I don't go around saying Magik is more power than Legion.
Only person doing something powerful was Cyclops with the full phoenix. Not to mention Namor was literally getting merked at first by everyone.
Namor thrashed the Avengers Thor included. I have no idea where you get the idea where he got merked. He got hit and then proceeded to stomp on the Avengers (breaking Rulk's arm and no selling Thor's attack) Phoenix Scott with 1/5 block Mjolinr with his pinky. The only thing that saved the Avenger's was Wanda's magic.
Storm has actually hurt a god which survived a black hole and ripped the fabric between two universes.
Oh please putting that "god" down was a team effort. The x-jets weapons hurt him. Captain Britain and Colossus were taking out chunks of his body, Magik trapped and immobilized him, Storm added some damage and finally he was put down by the bloody X-jet. So much for his black hole level durability.
Gladiator and Thor have job recently. Only person doing something planet level was a full phoenix cyclops
first of all let's not about Legion. On the Maxima vs Magik thread thread "Magik is already multiversal helllord she is even greater with phoenix"
Namor was getting his ass beat at first. Was he not?
powerhouses like Meggan, Captain Britain, Rogue, Ice Man, Magik and so on could not even defeat it. Storm got stormcaster and with a bolt dropped the god on its knees. All Kitty was drive a jet into him so it can explode while he was weak.
Hell Lord Magik could not do it herself
Literally stated he had black hole durability basically solar system
As you can see Storm with one attack put the god on his knees and he wasn't able to fight anymore. This left Kitty to drive a jet to explode to finish him off.
The phoenix 5 didn't even have showings on green phoenix level so Thor losing is pure PIS.
It was PIS? It was clearly the writter's intent for the P5 to written above Herald level. All 5 put Thor down. They also put down other characters like Gladiator. Stop with the lowballing. Thor beating Phoenix Rachel is a feat. ( It doesn't mean Thor is above the Phoenix Force.) Magik defeated Legion w/o the Phoenix force. It's a feat for Magik. I don't go around saying Magik is more power than Legion.
Only person doing something powerful was Cyclops with the full phoenix. Not to mention Namor was literally getting merked at first by everyone.
Namor thrashed the Avengers Thor included. I have no idea where you get the idea where he got merked. He got hit and then proceeded to stomp on the Avengers (breaking Rulk's arm and no selling Thor's attack) Phoenix Scott with 1/5 block Mjolinr with his pinky. The only thing that saved the Avenger's was Wanda's magic.
Storm has actually hurt a god which survived a black hole and ripped the fabric between two universes.
Oh please putting that "god" down was a team effort. The x-jets weapons hurt him. Captain Britain and Colossus were taking out chunks of his body, Magik trapped and immobilized him, Storm added some damage and finally he was put down by the bloody X-jet. So much for his black hole level durability.
Gladiator and Thor have job recently. Only person doing something planet level was a full phoenix cyclops
Planet level? The P5 were stomping on characters with planet level feats.
first of all let's not about Legion. On the Maxima vs Magik thread thread "Magik is already multiversal helllord she is even greater with phoenix"
Didn't Magik have a feat of unleashing her realm across different timelines wiping them out and killing all the heroes in progress? The demons turned phoenix Rachel into a puppet. Even with that feat, I'm not going around saying Magik > then the Phoenix force. Unlike your statement that Thor > Phoenix Rachel. Is regular Rachel greater than Phoenix Rachel because she knocked down Thor? That would make no sense at all.
Namor was getting his ass beat at first. Was he not?
So drawing blood means getting his ass beat? Does that mean Thanos got his ass beat by Namor w/o the phoenix force since Namor drew blood?
powerhouses like Meggan, Captain Britain, Rogue, Ice Man, Magik and so on could not even defeat it. Storm got stormcaster and with a bolt dropped the god on its knees. All Kitty was drive a jet into him so it can explode while he was weak.
Hell Lord Magik could not do it herself
She clearly wasn't in her Hell Lord mode. It's explained here
If she was in her Hell Lord mode she could do this against an opponent with durability feats way more impressive then that "god" you keep bragging about.
Literally stated he had black hole durability basically solar system
Which is is why Colossus was able to take a chunk off him and Magik able to trap him
As you can see Storm with one attack put the god on his knees and he wasn't able to fight anymore. This left Kitty to drive a jet to explode to finish him off.
It was a team effort. With the x-jet dishing out the killing blow.
@chiq: one the jet did not kill him. It only pushed him into to the portal. The god is immune to death.
Seems to be pretty dead here. His remains are splattered in Limbo. So either the x-jet destroyed him or Magik discs teledismembered him just like she did Magus.
If he isn't dead, he probably will be Magik's demon slave if we don't hear anything from him right?
Colossus did not even budge him though
You're calling the P5 inconsistent yet you make out that this "god" will only be injured by forces greater than a black hole. So Storm's lightning strike more powerful then a blackhole? How about Colossus having the strength to damage him? Are those black hole level punches?
The only effort was to make a portal and trap him. Storm was the one the one to bring him to his knees easily.
Yes so trapping him isn't a feat? Blackhole level stepping disc right there. Storm brought him to his knees but X-Jet/Portal destroyed the Solar System level god.
The phoenix were inconsistent in power. Hell Storm was stalemating Emma for a bit.
You just said Thor and Gladiator job a lot. Doesn't that mean they're inconsistent as well? Odin got tossed around by Jane Thor it happens to most characters. Stalemating someone for a bit is different from someone stalemating someone or outright beating them.
They were consistent enough that they beat Thor every time they faced him. What feats does Storm have that puts her above Thor?
Well you sure did say she is multiveral and etc so the phoenix amps her let's not play.
She teleported in demons across most timelines which they destroyed.
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Yes she is an ominiversal teleporter
Yes, Dormammu waited for her to let go of the Phoenix force before he tried to get Limbo. So yes it's an amp.
She is the "ultimate predator and her prey is all creation" In Hell Lord from she's a huge threat on a massive scale. The New mutants think she will be unbeatable.
Unlike Thanos Namor was actually getting beat up. He had to unleash a power wave to defend himself.
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Gallery
So he's talking on Thor, Rulk, Doc Strange, Thing, Vision, etc he take their hits and proceeds to stomp them.
What feats does this Storm have that approaches the P5?
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