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#801 Posted by P00TY (5781 posts) - - Show Bio

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

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#802 Posted by PhoenixTitan (899 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

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#803 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

it ( lightening )hurt hydro man and storm has already beaten hydro man by freezing him (

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#804 Edited by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio
@butterflykyss said:

@hellionvulcan:

1.Storm holds back more often than not as well as to not negatively impact the weather.

2.im not sure wat a telepathic connection has to do with anything.

3.im not sure wat you are talking about, scans demonstrate that her powers protect her from his extreme cold powers.

storm wins here

Not to mention she could simply mess with the electrical impulses in his brain to instantly knock him out...

@original_sin said:

@TERMINATORXX said:

I was wondering if storm could resist icemans freeze.

That's a tough question. In the past Storm has held him while he has created sub 0 temps with no ill effects. Also she has made the temp around her cold enough to shatter steel and has made her own below 0 temps.. Again with no ill effects. But we cannot say for certin if Iceman tried to freze her insides if she would be effected or not. Iceman has shown that he can make temps go down to absolute 0. So I don't see what her body could do in response to that.

@Thoushallnot

See bolded part.

Storm channeled a super-power blizzard through her body, powerful enough to last at least 8 to 9 months, with no ill effects whatsoever.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/jtGkQF7HSR6FOCwDtf4efqcxH6SdhZ0-G5Y1O9SOxOxDiYRrVOo_8qSAlrHWUewCNiMAFof7JmfC=s1600

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#806 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

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#807 Posted by dami24434 (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman would win in a spitestomp if he wants. Jobbing aside iceman cannot be hurt by storm attacks. Mister sinister learned this the hard way recently and that was an holding iceman too.

Iceman can fly if need be,storm has zero advantage.

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#808 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9905 posts) - - Show Bio

@dami24434: That's not true. Iceman has been knocked out harmed before even in ice form. Storm has on more than occasion hurt iceman.

To claim Storm has Zero Advantage is actually incorrect.

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#809 Posted by tethadam (608 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman stops time with Absolute Zero. Is this possible?

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#810 Edited by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@dami24434: how can you claim she cant hurt him when there are literally 3 different occasions when she did just that? let's not ignore canon because your fave is outclassed and outdone by the all-goddess now.

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#811 Posted by xMangog__Beastx (4736 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman.

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#812 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9905 posts) - - Show Bio

If, Iceman is morals off then he stomps, but since he isn't. Storm takes the Win here.

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#813 Posted by Noone1996 (11863 posts) - - Show Bio

Ice Man stomps.

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#814 Posted by Aqualion0 (2127 posts) - - Show Bio

@phoenixtitan said:
@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

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It's funny how you posted 3 out of context scans. First and third occurred when Iceman was mind-controlled and during second one he wasn't even omega level.

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#815 Posted by PanzerX (494 posts) - - Show Bio

You have to admire the determination that Storm fans have to keep pushing her as some sort of herald tier.

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#816 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9905 posts) - - Show Bio

@panzerx: I don't think she's a Herald Tier at all times. But since Storm has recently been established to be an actual Goddess. We are finally getting a chance at seeing Storms full potential. I don't see what the problem with that.

@aqualion0 said:
@butterflykyss said:
@phoenixtitan said:
@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

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It's funny how you posted 3 out of context scans. First and third occurred when Iceman was mind-controlled and during second one he wasn't even omega level.

So, how do you answer for the other many times Iceman has been hurt and KO, by Storm and other people through other means? These scans are not out of context they actually support the Narrative that Storm can harm and or hinder Iceman. And that's not even factoring in Storm stating his powers doesn't affect her and OR her being able to change the temperature around him making him melt faster.

As, I stated before if Iceman was morals off he would kill storm in seconds, but becuase he is not. Storm will take him out quickly.

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#817 Edited by Aqualion0 (2127 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

So, how do you answer for the other many times Iceman has been hurt and KO, by other means? These scans are not out of context they actually support the Narrative that Storm can harm and or hinder Iceman.

Iceman's power fluctuates and depends on his mental condition. He subconsciously limits himself to not use full extent of his powers. I think it was quite established but you guys still not get it. In Astonishing X-Men #64-65 Iceman defeated Thor and lightning couldn't do shit to his ice. Storm was also unable to reverse effects of planet freezing.

''Feats'' Butterflykyss posted... They are just simply not useful for this debate because we are using Iceman at his best not jobber , mind-controlled or restricted version. In addition of that Iceman easily encased Storm alongside with X-Men in pillars during New Avengers #9 and all of them were frozen and powerless to break free until Kitty Pryde started phasing.

Here's what she posted.

  • Black Order attacks X-Mansion. Supergiant starts mind-banging people and targets Iceman. She claims Bobby to be the only danger while Storm , Rachel Gray , Logan and other X-Men are considered as ''fodder''. Mind-Controlled Iceman encases all of them in ice until Kitty Pryde saves them with her phasing. Then Storm proceeds to attack Iceman's physical body and gives Rachel Gray opportunity to free Bobby from her mental hold.

TL;DR Iceman was mentally assaulted (He wasn't at full potential), managed to freeze Storm and she was unable to break without help , Storm attacked him to get rid of Supergiant alongside with Rachel.

  • This is not even debatable. It's from Infinity Crusade , before Iceman was supposed to be omega level mutant and struggled against street-tiers

TL;DR Storm KOed weakest incarnation of Iceman

  • Shadow King takes over Iceman's body and mind to attack X-Men. While he's distracted Storm unleashes tornado and takes him out.

TL;DR Storm defeated Mind-Controlled Iceman who wasn't using his powers in right ways.

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#818 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9905 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0 said:

@mooty_pass:

Iceman's power fluctuates and depends on his mental condition. He subconsciously limits himself to not use full extent of his powers. I think it was quite established but you guys still not get it. In Astonishing X-Men #64-65 Iceman defeated Thor and lightning couldn't do shit to his ice. Storm was also unable to reverse effects of planet freezing.

Well, for one we know that Iceman was amped with the Death Seed and all during that fight with Thor. And at the end of that fight Thor Blew a hole in his body with lightning and then smashed him to bits. I don't see why Storm can't do the same as she has already done with her hurting him with Lightning.

''Feats'' Butterflykyss posted... They are just simply not useful for this debate because we are using Iceman at his best not jobber , mind-controlled or restricted version. In addition of that Iceman easily encased Storm alongside with X-Men in pillars during New Avengers #9 and all of them were frozen and powerless to break free until Kitty Pryde started phasing.

Yes, Iceman is a huge Jobber, but when you look at the many times Iceman has been hurt by other conventional means as well as Thor's lightning and Storm's lighting Twice it's really not that far fetch here. While that is a VERY good tactic on Bobby's part, but wouldn't be the smartest idea. Why would you encase Storm in a block of ice? Your just going to put her in a Frenzy.

Here's what she posted.

  • Black Order attacks X-Mansion. Supergiant starts mind-banging people and targets Iceman. She claims Bobby to be the only danger while Storm , Rachel Gray , Logan and other X-Men are considered as ''fodder''. Mind-Controlled Iceman encases all of them in ice until Kitty Pryde saves them with her phasing. Then Storm proceeds to attack Iceman's physical body and gives Rachel Gray opportunity to free Bobby from her mental hold.

TL;DR Iceman was mentally assaulted (He wasn't at full potential), managed to freeze Storm and she was unable to break without help , Storm attacked him to get rid of Supergiant alongside with Rachel.

  • This is not even debatable. It's from Infinity Crusade , before Iceman was supposed to be omega level mutant and struggled against street-tiers

TL;DR Storm KOed weakest incarnation of Iceman

  • Shadow King takes over Iceman's body and mind to attack X-Men. While he's distracted Storm unleashes tornado and takes him out.

TL;DR Storm defeated Mind-Controlled Iceman who wasn't using his powers in right ways.

That's not the point. His durability has nothing to do with him being mind controlled. Again Iceman has been hurt by many other conventional means and other people. The Narrative that your arguing against is that that Storm and Thor were able to harm him with Lightning. And when we look at the times other people have been able to harm Iceman as well this shouldn't be that much of a problem.

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#819 Posted by Jacthripper (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman

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#820 Posted by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

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#821 Posted by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

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#822 Edited by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0 said:
@butterflykyss said:
@phoenixtitan said:
@p00ty said:

@pastepotpete1: lightening - will not hurt iceman.

I used to think that also. But she's put him down and hurt him with lightning a few times. I'll try to find the scans

Still waiting for scans, 13 months later.

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It's funny how you posted 3 out of context scans. First and third occurred when Iceman was mind-controlled and during second one he wasn't even omega level.

First off the poster asked to be shown images where lightning hurt Iceman. That is what I did.

Secondly, him being mind controlled or not is not going to affect what can hurt him or not. The bottom line is that Ororo was able to KO him with her lightning and in the last scan her winds.

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#823 Posted by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

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#824 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

agreed. bloodlusted or not Ororo would still win. and lets not forget who has been described categorically as more dangerous:

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#825 Edited by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

@butterflykyss said:
@stormcell said:

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

agreed. bloodlusted or not Ororo would still win. and lets not forget who has been described categorically as more dangerous:

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You're right. And not only was she described as "the most dangerous", but "easily the most dangerous" meaning the other X-Men don't even come close to Ororo.

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#826 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@butterflykyss said:
@stormcell said:

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

agreed. bloodlusted or not Ororo would still win. and lets not forget who has been described categorically as more dangerous:

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You're right. And not only was she described as "the most dangerous", but "easily the most dangerous" meaning the other X-Men don't even come close to Ororo.

exactly!!! excellent point as always.

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#827 Edited by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

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Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

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#828 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16817 posts) - - Show Bio

SiNOpSis fRyInG

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#829 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

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Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

she doesnt have to put him down for good to KO him. shes ko'd on three separate occasions so to argue that she cannot doesnt align to canon.

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#830 Edited by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell said:
@butterflykyss said:
@stormcell said:

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

agreed. bloodlusted or not Ororo would still win. and lets not forget who has been described categorically as more dangerous:

You're right. And not only was she described as "the most dangerous", but "easily the most dangerous" meaning the other X-Men don't even come close to Ororo.

exactly!!! excellent point as always.

As I was saying, Iceman usually holds back, is a wimp and a pussy... Sooo, that's why Storm could be EASILY described as the most dangerous. However that does NOT imply that she would win against Bobby if he is to use his power to it's fullest .

This is how it would go. Storm hits Iceman, he falls, then reform. Repeat.

Eventually... Iceman hits Storm. Game over.

In ice form Bobby has something similar to a healing factor that not only makes him capable of coming back from nearly absolute desintegration, but alows him to exist everywhere in the world where there is moisture. He also has the ability to attack you from within. So no hit is requiered. He only needs to freeze the water in you.

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#831 Edited by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@butterflykyss said:
@stormcell said:
@butterflykyss said:
@stormcell said:

Even if Iceman were bloodlusted, I still don't see how he could win against Ororo. Her elemental powers can easily cancel out his, and then she has a lot more stuff in her powerset on top of that. The lady has even demonstrated subatomic control over matter on panel. This is a curbstomp in Storm's favor whether Bobby is bloodlusted or not.

agreed. bloodlusted or not Ororo would still win. and lets not forget who has been described categorically as more dangerous:

You're right. And not only was she described as "the most dangerous", but "easily the most dangerous" meaning the other X-Men don't even come close to Ororo.

exactly!!! excellent point as always.

As I was saying, Iceman usually holds back, is a wimp and a pussy... Sooo, that's why Storm could be EASILY described as the most dangerous. However that does NOT imply that she would win against Bobby if he is to use his power to it's fullest .

This is how it would go. Storm hits Iceman, he falls, then reform. Repeat.

Eventually... Iceman hits Storm. Game over.

In ice form Bobby has something similar to a healing factor that not only makes him capable of coming back from nearly absolute desintegration, but alows him to exist everywhere in the world where there is moisture. He also has the ability to attack you from within. So no hit is requiered. He only needs to freeze the water in you.

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iceman is not a real god. let's get that straight. ororo is actually a goddess.

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Secondly, if Iceman would just reform why didnt he just get up after being hit by either wind or lightning? No one is denying he can send his consciousness anywhere there is water however to do that he would have to be awake. As I demonstrated Iceman can be KOd by her powers and she has done this on three separate occasions.

Lastly Ororo holds back too and all the time and she can also attack you internally. This is not something only exclusive to Iceman.

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#832 Posted by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

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Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

she doesnt have to put him down for good to KO him. shes ko'd on three separate occasions so to argue that she cannot doesnt align to canon.

.

Things happen in comics due to different plot twists and reasons, so I'm not arguing if Storm can or can't KO Bob under this or that condition or situation. What I am saying is that Iceman HAS the ability to win in a fight against her, if he uses his powers adequately.

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Make of this what you wil.

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#833 Edited by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@butterflykyss:

Iceman is not a real god. let's get that straight. ororo is actually a goddess.

This is irrelevant to the conversation.

Secondly, if Iceman would just reform why didnt he just get up after being hit by either wind or lightning? No one is denying he can send his consciousness anywhere there is water however to do that he would have to be awake. As I demonstrated Iceman can be KOd by her powers and she has done this on three separate occasions.

It's not only about sending his conciousness, is about existing simultaniously all around the planet: Including in the water within Ororos body.

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You can see on the scans 2 statements of being everywhere at once, including knowledge of things happening around the world, and 1 of being part of everything.

He also says it as if it is simply a state of his being. He generates a sustained cold affect that freezes the world causing winter everywhere, and he has 3 conversations in Manhattan, China (proceeds to space), and what appears to be antarctica simultaneously while also watching over his dad 50 miles north of Manhattan.

With the one in space, that Ice-giant was larger than the empire state building and with the earths atmosphere being 300 miles thick that is at least 2.474.516.317.500.000 gallons of water (ignoring he didn't go in a straight line) that he is in direct control of while still freezing the entire planet.

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This other scan is of him freezing the Strangers' cosmic energy beams. The Stranger is (nearly) a Galactus-level cosmic being.

Bobby now and the Bobby you are talking about are worlds apart. His omniscience is pretty new. You can't limit a growing character by old limitations when he continues to outgrow them. This Iceman even threatened to kill the entire planet with a thought. His human body means nothing and has been entirely destroyed in human form.

In summary he can and basically has been and always is in control of all water on Earth at all times. I has basically been written right into this crazy power set.

So, yes, he has been KOed by Storm, but taking this into account it is safe to state that Iceman can and could win, if he was to take the fight seriously.

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#834 Edited by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

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Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

Iceman isn't going to be able to turn Storm into ice. She's immune to cold. Nice try, but no cigar.

Storm could also attack Iceman by controlling the electrical impulses in his brain/nervous system. Iceman still thinks, even if he can exist in a single molecule of water, meaning Storm can control the electrical impulses that governs his consciousness. She could kill him if she wanted to.

Someone also mentioned the water in Ororo's body. The problem is Storm also controls moisture/water, and she can control the elements internally within people and objects. Storm should be able to outmuscle Bobby's control over moisture given she is vastly more powerful than he AND he has the willpower of a marshmellow compared to hers.

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#835 Edited by God_Spawn (43169 posts) - - Show Bio

Astounding.

Moderator
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#836 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@butterflykyss said:
@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

she doesnt have to put him down for good to KO him. shes ko'd on three separate occasions so to argue that she cannot doesnt align to canon.

.

Things happen in comics due to different plot twists and reasons, so I'm not arguing if Storm can or can't KO Bob under this or that condition or situation. What I am saying is that Iceman HAS the ability to win in a fight against her, if he uses his powers adequately.

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Make of this what you wil.

I mean anyone can win a fight if they adequately use their abilities. The question is can Iceman win against Ororo? Ororo is immune to the elements which include the extreme cold. I'm not seeing what he could do that she would not be able to counteract with her abilities. If he tries to freeze her she could just wrestle control and undo the effects of his ice.

@butterflykyss:

Iceman is not a real god. let's get that straight. ororo is actually a goddess.

This is irrelevant to the conversation.

Secondly, if Iceman would just reform why didnt he just get up after being hit by either wind or lightning? No one is denying he can send his consciousness anywhere there is water however to do that he would have to be awake. As I demonstrated Iceman can be KOd by her powers and she has done this on three separate occasions.

It's not only about sending his conciousness, is about existing simultaniously all around the planet: Including in the water within Ororos body.

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You can see on the scans 2 statements of being everywhere at once, including knowledge of things happening around the world, and 1 of being part of everything.

He also says it as if it is simply a state of his being. He generates a sustained cold affect that freezes the world causing winter everywhere, and he has 3 conversations in Manhattan, China (proceeds to space), and what appears to be antarctica simultaneously while also watching over his dad 50 miles north of Manhattan.

With the one in space, that Ice-giant was larger than the empire state building and with the earths atmosphere being 300 miles thick that is at least 2.474.516.317.500.000 gallons of water (ignoring he didn't go in a straight line) that he is in direct control of while still freezing the entire planet.

No Caption Provided

This other scan is of him freezing the Strangers' cosmic energy beams. The Stranger is (nearly) a Galactus-level cosmic being.

Bobby now and the Bobby you are talking about are worlds apart. His omniscience is pretty new. You can't limit a growing character by old limitations when he continues to outgrow them. This Iceman even threatened to kill the entire planet with a thought. His human body means nothing and has been entirely destroyed in human form.

In summary he can and basically has been and always is in control of all water on Earth at all times. I has basically been written right into this crazy power set.

So, yes, he has been KOed by Storm, but taking this into account it is safe to state that Iceman can and could win, if he was to take the fight seriously.

1. you posted a scan saying he was a god because his thoughts can be anywhere water is. I was correcting that statement. So it's very much relevant.

2. Ororo again is immune to the elements. He wont be able to do anything to her that would incapacitate her to a point where she could not eventually fight back (unless he stabs her with an ice shard or something like that).

3. Iceman had exhibited that ability to transfer his consciousness by the time she KOd when Supergiant took over his mind and when Shadow King took over his mind and in both those instances Ororo was able to ko him.

I'm assuming both fighters are taking this seriously. Also, Spiderman (dr oct) stated was easily the most dangerous of the xmen team which included iceman.

Avatar image for stormcell
#837 Posted by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

@butterflykyss said:
@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

she doesnt have to put him down for good to KO him. shes ko'd on three separate occasions so to argue that she cannot doesnt align to canon.

.

Things happen in comics due to different plot twists and reasons, so I'm not arguing if Storm can or can't KO Bob under this or that condition or situation. What I am saying is that Iceman HAS the ability to win in a fight against her, if he uses his powers adequately.

No Caption Provided

Make of this what you wil.

Make of these scans what you will:

Storm wields near-infinite power: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Storm is one with the entire planet, and all of its myriad, elemental forces are hers to command: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GDZ_cnSgg0HdlPM8iRjNwURlZtElsnfjx1sVoGCBM-dekOrduIVSBEJSCJ06HQ7jV4SdOKArgqpR=s1600

Storm wields the power of a galactic core (millions of stars crammed into a relatively small area of space spanning lightyears across): https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TA1J3mXX9MxQCeN2xFF3Z0NOKwIeIuHj53uVw6LDmd9gIJV0ASaQxyh2Kp3Io7ZI08gMxMFVdjnu=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Z7nv4mGSzvEUL0Jg08ObnGrIl3ZurnkiUFhYZg45hPn8UU8VY4gzEgR_ofw-8LIR8QJ8nfYvtl8v=s1600

Storm defeats the Trion, the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's past, present, and future: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sWDgSnLobDx-JvrXaPXneRkdHpxfEPmXEbOgUAhd_cje-rfGKkxGj9FUbxTavW4-snDJqTtMtLJf=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zAFw2Hp2Q_e10HNFYttsWLAsThlvAA5AU1l7daz00zAM4fnmmbzKr0_uX4q68JyUWqj8J2JzxTX7=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VkeSn3jQg62t5kA4_eqaVB4Wggn1T5-TsIRwaRK6IuNhKldyz8XJ-bMJhXdbfVZ6zgHEkl0rH2Lc=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Uajj6j4RzQdVbw4Xe5D2MXpWPgmjLBk-Fb0-wJazIHKI9Ak9ciDdW-fj0d8uQhfPSpOeWOLriMRG=s1600

Notice in this scan how she says she could actually destroy the Trion if she wanted to: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TvPqmS93YoaGYpxfQQGfQ9t6E5Yeq2iUs789TaCwml4IkQm0TKb6gOTonUC8a0C1AjjiDmK0StJD=s1600

And then she wields enough power to sew that reality back together when it starts to come apart at its seams: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/W9MiEZhPChlcuV2y7pztz_F3z2g-YTg_UpqhMByUghZ5_KKVQRHqb6zElR6Bv74xJgVNkAg1YsoI=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nNMAtQfQN2gAPJEf56KEfSUBjipxK52KQBCSK_VEl7x_qR1MMt_sLTQ5VcSiSHUy2mNQWojSlHsO=s1600

In Fantastic Four #546, we see Human Torch, who has Silver Surfer's powers added to his own, only able to contain Stardust for a few moments. Notice the damage he's doing to Stardust when I bring up what Storm does to this character in the same issue: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxW5lqEWMlniQ0o95UDGrTgwtGzFQHeC6uxCU0hloaWqLKZylP7UFHixAN8cpkMYGIzSaj9kU_I=s1600

Storm does FAR more damage to Stardust with her own powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Sz1uHALLWV4__vy0L2mJXETOgd9oE-iNtpuEjIJNZg9E7xaENrJuQ6CCXj0r1iYGt-Qlb-KDRpOh=s1600

While Stardust reforms herself later after Storm's attack, the point is that even the combined power of Torch and Silver Surfer in one being could not blow up Stardust which Storm did.

So, essentially, Storm's feats puts her in a powerclass FAR greater than Iceman's even when Bobby is boosted by a death seed. Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PIS writing Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.

Avatar image for buckwheat
#838 Posted by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell:

Make of these scans what you will:

Storm wields near-infinite power: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Hyperbole. She is not wielding near-infinite power, it is just a statement.

Storm is one with the entire planet, and all of its myriad, elemental forces are hers to command: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GDZ_cnSgg0HdlPM8iRjNwURlZtElsnfjx1sVoGCBM-dekOrduIVSBEJSCJ06HQ7jV4SdOKArgqpR=s1600

Again. This is a statement not an actual feat. What they say is "one with the entire planet, and myriad of elemental powers hers to command" what she actually does is: blast Doom with a lightning beam that does NOT put him down.

Storm wields the power of a galactic core (millions of stars crammed into a relatively small area of space spanning lightyears across): https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TA1J3mXX9MxQCeN2xFF3Z0NOKwIeIuHj53uVw6LDmd9gIJV0ASaQxyh2Kp3Io7ZI08gMxMFVdjnu=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Z7nv4mGSzvEUL0Jg08ObnGrIl3ZurnkiUFhYZg45hPn8UU8VY4gzEgR_ofw-8LIR8QJ8nfYvtl8v=s1600

The first of the two links is broken. On the second one Storm draws the power of the core, as she does when she draws power from Earth, except in the scan it kills her to do so, and in this fight she does not have the core of stars to draw power from.

Storm defeats the Trion, the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's past, present, and future: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sWDgSnLobDx-JvrXaPXneRkdHpxfEPmXEbOgUAhd_cje-rfGKkxGj9FUbxTavW4-snDJqTtMtLJf=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zAFw2Hp2Q_e10HNFYttsWLAsThlvAA5AU1l7daz00zAM4fnmmbzKr0_uX4q68JyUWqj8J2JzxTX7=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VkeSn3jQg62t5kA4_eqaVB4Wggn1T5-TsIRwaRK6IuNhKldyz8XJ-bMJhXdbfVZ6zgHEkl0rH2Lc=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Uajj6j4RzQdVbw4Xe5D2MXpWPgmjLBk-Fb0-wJazIHKI9Ak9ciDdW-fj0d8uQhfPSpOeWOLriMRG=s1600

Nowhere on these scans does it show Storm defeating Trion. Did I miss it?

Also, notice she is tapping on the energy of that realm she is at, she has acces to that energy source, a source she does NOT have acces on this battle.

Notice in this scan how she says she could actually destroy the Trion if she wanted to: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TvPqmS93YoaGYpxfQQGfQ9t6E5Yeq2iUs789TaCwml4IkQm0TKb6gOTonUC8a0C1AjjiDmK0StJD=s1600

Yeah, she does SAY she could, but many people say many things in comics.

And then she wields enough power to sew that reality back together when it starts to come apart at its seams: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/W9MiEZhPChlcuV2y7pztz_F3z2g-YTg_UpqhMByUghZ5_KKVQRHqb6zElR6Bv74xJgVNkAg1YsoI=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nNMAtQfQN2gAPJEf56KEfSUBjipxK52KQBCSK_VEl7x_qR1MMt_sLTQ5VcSiSHUy2mNQWojSlHsO=s1600

This is true. And it is impressive. Ok, don't gert me wrong, all the scans you are bringing are very impressive ones. But how is sewing reality back together usefull in battle?

In Fantastic Four #546, we see Human Torch, who has Silver Surfer's powers added to his own, only able to contain Stardust for a few moments. Notice the damage he's doing to Stardust when I bring up what Storm does to this character in the same issue: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxW5lqEWMlniQ0o95UDGrTgwtGzFQHeC6uxCU0hloaWqLKZylP7UFHixAN8cpkMYGIzSaj9kU_I=s1600

Storm does FAR more damage to Stardust with her own powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Sz1uHALLWV4__vy0L2mJXETOgd9oE-iNtpuEjIJNZg9E7xaENrJuQ6CCXj0r1iYGt-Qlb-KDRpOh=s1600

While Stardust reforms herself later after Storm's attack, the point is that even the combined power of Torch and Silver Surfer in one being could not blow up Stardust which Storm did.

The scan does not show the kind of damage Stardust recieves from Storm's attack. We only see the impact, and nothing more. So if it was a lot of damage or very little... It is left to interpretation.

So, essentially, Storm's feats puts her in a powerclass FAR greater than Iceman's even when Bobby is boosted by a death seed.

First off let me note that about half of the feats I presented for Iceman take place AFTER the apocalypse seed has already been REMOVED from Bobby's body, and he retained the same level of power. The examples of omnipresence I showed (the conversations were definitely after it was removed). He has also shown afterwards that he retained it. Even joking making a giant iceman gundam robot he piloted from the inside of a cockpit for fun during a fight with krakoa.

It is generally agreed it isnt an amp and he has said afterwards he could still do it.

That said, I don't see how in a battle against Iceman Storm's powerclass is so far greater. Sure she has done some impressive things, but most of the scans you presented where of Storm using the energy of space or an alternate dimension to power herself, and she does not have access to that on Earth.

Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PIS writing Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.

Iceman was able to control the wheather throught the entire planet, whilst heaving converstions in several places throughout the world at the same time, while keeping Thor at bay (Thor God of Thunder I might add) and creating a gigantic self that elevated out of Earth's atmosphere. So I just don't see how controling the moisture of Ororo's body would be so much of a deal.

Bring me some real battle feats for Storm, in Earth, that would proof to put and keep Iceman down. Because as of now, Iceman does have the upper hand.

Avatar image for buckwheat
#839 Posted by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

Iceman isn't going to be able to turn Storm into ice. She's immune to cold. Nice try, but no cigar.

Is she really inmune to been frozen by someone like Iceman? Can you back that statement with a scan? If you can't... Nice try, but no.

Storm could also attack Iceman by controlling the electrical impulses in his brain/nervous system. Iceman still thinks, even if he can exist in a single molecule of water, meaning Storm can control the electrical impulses that governs his consciousness. She could kill him if she wanted to.

This makes no sense to me. How would she control de electrical impulses of a conciousness that exists all over Earth simultaniously?

Someone also mentioned the water in Ororo's body. The problem is Storm also controls moisture/water, and she can control the elements internally within people and objects. Storm should be able to outmuscle Bobby's control over moisture given she is vastly more powerful than he AND he has the willpower of a marshmellow compared to hers.

Actually I disagree. I don't think Ororo would outmuscle Iceman over control of ice, at all.

I, nor anyone, has ever seen Storm controling moisture to the point of been able to create complex ice structures, such as walking talking ice humanoids. Her control over the elements albait great is more simple. Iceman could and would succeed in controling Ororo's moisture... As bad as that sounds.

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#840 Posted by Toratorn (7275 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are overrated garbage.

Avatar image for butterflykyss
#841 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell:

Make of these scans what you will:

Storm wields near-infinite power: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Hyperbole. She is not wielding near-infinite power, it is just a statement.

Storm is one with the entire planet, and all of its myriad, elemental forces are hers to command: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GDZ_cnSgg0HdlPM8iRjNwURlZtElsnfjx1sVoGCBM-dekOrduIVSBEJSCJ06HQ7jV4SdOKArgqpR=s1600

Again. This is a statement not an actual feat. What they say is "one with the entire planet, and myriad of elemental powers hers to command" what she actually does is: blast Doom with a lightning beam that does NOT put him down.

Storm wields the power of a galactic core (millions of stars crammed into a relatively small area of space spanning lightyears across): https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TA1J3mXX9MxQCeN2xFF3Z0NOKwIeIuHj53uVw6LDmd9gIJV0ASaQxyh2Kp3Io7ZI08gMxMFVdjnu=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Z7nv4mGSzvEUL0Jg08ObnGrIl3ZurnkiUFhYZg45hPn8UU8VY4gzEgR_ofw-8LIR8QJ8nfYvtl8v=s1600

The first of the two links is broken. On the second one Storm draws the power of the core, as she does when she draws power from Earth, except in the scan it kills her to do so, and in this fight she does not have the core of stars to draw power from.

Storm defeats the Trion, the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's past, present, and future: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sWDgSnLobDx-JvrXaPXneRkdHpxfEPmXEbOgUAhd_cje-rfGKkxGj9FUbxTavW4-snDJqTtMtLJf=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zAFw2Hp2Q_e10HNFYttsWLAsThlvAA5AU1l7daz00zAM4fnmmbzKr0_uX4q68JyUWqj8J2JzxTX7=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VkeSn3jQg62t5kA4_eqaVB4Wggn1T5-TsIRwaRK6IuNhKldyz8XJ-bMJhXdbfVZ6zgHEkl0rH2Lc=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Uajj6j4RzQdVbw4Xe5D2MXpWPgmjLBk-Fb0-wJazIHKI9Ak9ciDdW-fj0d8uQhfPSpOeWOLriMRG=s1600

Nowhere on these scans does it show Storm defeating Trion. Did I miss it?

Also, notice she is tapping on the energy of that realm she is at, she has acces to that energy source, a source she does NOT have acces on this battle.

Notice in this scan how she says she could actually destroy the Trion if she wanted to: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TvPqmS93YoaGYpxfQQGfQ9t6E5Yeq2iUs789TaCwml4IkQm0TKb6gOTonUC8a0C1AjjiDmK0StJD=s1600

Yeah, she does SAY she could, but many people say many things in comics.

And then she wields enough power to sew that reality back together when it starts to come apart at its seams: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/W9MiEZhPChlcuV2y7pztz_F3z2g-YTg_UpqhMByUghZ5_KKVQRHqb6zElR6Bv74xJgVNkAg1YsoI=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nNMAtQfQN2gAPJEf56KEfSUBjipxK52KQBCSK_VEl7x_qR1MMt_sLTQ5VcSiSHUy2mNQWojSlHsO=s1600

This is true. And it is impressive. Ok, don't gert me wrong, all the scans you are bringing are very impressive ones. But how is sewing reality back together usefull in battle?

In Fantastic Four #546, we see Human Torch, who has Silver Surfer's powers added to his own, only able to contain Stardust for a few moments. Notice the damage he's doing to Stardust when I bring up what Storm does to this character in the same issue: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxW5lqEWMlniQ0o95UDGrTgwtGzFQHeC6uxCU0hloaWqLKZylP7UFHixAN8cpkMYGIzSaj9kU_I=s1600

Storm does FAR more damage to Stardust with her own powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Sz1uHALLWV4__vy0L2mJXETOgd9oE-iNtpuEjIJNZg9E7xaENrJuQ6CCXj0r1iYGt-Qlb-KDRpOh=s1600

While Stardust reforms herself later after Storm's attack, the point is that even the combined power of Torch and Silver Surfer in one being could not blow up Stardust which Storm did.

The scan does not show the kind of damage Stardust recieves from Storm's attack. We only see the impact, and nothing more. So if it was a lot of damage or very little... It is left to interpretation.

So, essentially, Storm's feats puts her in a powerclass FAR greater than Iceman's even when Bobby is boosted by a death seed.

First off let me note that about half of the feats I presented for Iceman take place AFTER the apocalypse seed has already been REMOVED from Bobby's body, and he retained the same level of power. The examples of omnipresence I showed (the conversations were definitely after it was removed). He has also shown afterwards that he retained it. Even joking making a giant iceman gundam robot he piloted from the inside of a cockpit for fun during a fight with krakoa.

It is generally agreed it isnt an amp and he has said afterwards he could still do it.

That said, I don't see how in a battle against Iceman Storm's powerclass is so far greater. Sure she has done some impressive things, but most of the scans you presented where of Storm using the energy of space or an alternate dimension to power herself, and she does not have access to that on Earth.

Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PIS writing Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.

Iceman was able to control the wheather throught the entire planet, whilst heaving converstions in several places throughout the world at the same time, while keeping Thor at bay (Thor God of Thunder I might add) and creating a gigantic self that elevated out of Earth's atmosphere. So I just don't see how controling the moisture of Ororo's body would be so much of a deal.

Bring me some real battle feats for Storm, in Earth, that would proof to put and keep Iceman down. Because as of now, Iceman does have the upper hand.

1 and 2. No it wasnt hyperbole. Have you read the actual story? She was on the verge of becoming another "Dark Phoenix" that is until she regained her humanity. Her power had grown to that of nearly an entire continent and was expanding.

2. Did you read her battle with Trion? She in fact did beat Trion in their own dimension and also healed their dimension. The fact she is taking over an entity such as Trion's power in its dimension is a feat in of itself. Also, Ororo is a goddess who was able to beat Adversary (a god) with her powers and was the only xman who was able to hurt X-Legion when the xmen fought against them in dissembled. Iceman wasnt even able to do a thing against X-Legion.

3. The scans you showed of him doing all of those impressive things were with him being amped whereas ororo was able to defeat a god-tier being (adversary) all under her own power and has used her powers on a global level as a child and multiple times as an adult. These powers she most definitely have access to on earth.

4. Her goddess form battle agaisnt Adversary and her being the only xman that could hurt X-Legion is another recent example of her outclassing Iceman.

Avatar image for stormcell
#842 Posted by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

Iceman isn't going to be able to turn Storm into ice. She's immune to cold. Nice try, but no cigar.

Is she really inmune to been frozen by someone like Iceman? Can you back that statement with a scan? If you can't... Nice try, but no.

Storm could also attack Iceman by controlling the electrical impulses in his brain/nervous system. Iceman still thinks, even if he can exist in a single molecule of water, meaning Storm can control the electrical impulses that governs his consciousness. She could kill him if she wanted to.

This makes no sense to me. How would she control de electrical impulses of a conciousness that exists all over Earth simultaniously?

Someone also mentioned the water in Ororo's body. The problem is Storm also controls moisture/water, and she can control the elements internally within people and objects. Storm should be able to outmuscle Bobby's control over moisture given she is vastly more powerful than he AND he has the willpower of a marshmellow compared to hers.

Actually I disagree. I don't think Ororo would outmuscle Iceman over control of ice, at all.

I, nor anyone, has ever seen Storm controling moisture to the point of been able to create complex ice structures, such as walking talking ice humanoids. Her control over the elements albait great is more simple. Iceman could and would succeed in controling Ororo's moisture... As bad as that sounds.

1) Iceman is not some mystical being which means the laws of physics still apply to him. While Iceman can send his consciousness elsewhere, there must be electrical impulses to still govern it. Storm controls that. Also, if he moves his consciousness into a body of water, that water still bends to Ororo's control. While I won't bother to argue about Storm having more or less control over ice, I will assert that her control over moisture/water is greater than his.

2) Storm is immune to cold. Period. It has nothing to do with Iceman. Its a part of her mutant power. In other words, Iceman would not be able to freeze her. If she allowed him to, he could encase her in a block of ice, but she'd just break free of it with lightning, and she would not be chilled by the ice. Her immunity to cold even extends to her insides as she can channel massive blizzards through her body without being chilled.

3) Iceman controlling ice scupltures is not the same as his moisture control. Storm can control ocean currents. Has Iceman done that? Storm can control the surface tension of water so that she can surf on the ocean waves barefoot. Has Iceman done that? Storm can disperse a being made up of water (Hydroman) simply by thinking about it. Has Iceman done that? Storm can make it rain and also banish rain. Has Iceman done that? Storm may not have demonstrated the ability to create animate ice golems, but her control over water in its liquid form far outdoes Bobby's...and that is what she'll be fighting him over if he tries to pull the moisture out of her body. She should beat him here because she's vastly more powerful and she's stronger-willed.

Avatar image for butterflykyss
#843 Edited by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:
@stormcell said:
@buckwheat said:

Is this Omega Level Iceman? If so, stomp in his favour. If this is regular-holding-back-Bobby Ororo can shake her stuff and make him drop.

Iceman has no feats that puts him anywhere near what Storm has done in terms of power. I'm sorry, but if Storm can wield power in quantities to defeat the Trion, Iceman, even at his most powerful, would be a joke compared to her.

Actually no, it's the other way around if I'm not mistaken. Storm has no way of puting Iceman down for good. He will just keep coming back until he freezes her.

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Yuo see Iceman can exist within a single molecule of water, therefore when Storm hits his body and brakes him, he will just reform. However if Bobby chooses to turn Storm's blood to ice... It's game over for her.

But that's why I was asking if this is full out Iceman, because usually Bobby does not operate at his top condition.

Anywhay, he has the means to stop Storm and not the other way around.

Iceman isn't going to be able to turn Storm into ice. She's immune to cold. Nice try, but no cigar.

Is she really inmune to been frozen by someone like Iceman? Can you back that statement with a scan? If you can't... Nice try, but no.

Storm could also attack Iceman by controlling the electrical impulses in his brain/nervous system. Iceman still thinks, even if he can exist in a single molecule of water, meaning Storm can control the electrical impulses that governs his consciousness. She could kill him if she wanted to.

This makes no sense to me. How would she control de electrical impulses of a conciousness that exists all over Earth simultaniously?

Someone also mentioned the water in Ororo's body. The problem is Storm also controls moisture/water, and she can control the elements internally within people and objects. Storm should be able to outmuscle Bobby's control over moisture given she is vastly more powerful than he AND he has the willpower of a marshmellow compared to hers.

Actually I disagree. I don't think Ororo would outmuscle Iceman over control of ice, at all.

I, nor anyone, has ever seen Storm controling moisture to the point of been able to create complex ice structures, such as walking talking ice humanoids. Her control over the elements albait great is more simple. Iceman could and would succeed in controling Ororo's moisture... As bad as that sounds.

1) Iceman is not some mystical being which means the laws of physics still apply to him. While Iceman can send his consciousness elsewhere, there must be electrical impulses to still govern it. Storm controls that. Also, if he moves his consciousness into a body of water, that water still bends to Ororo's control. While I won't bother to argue about Storm having more or less control over ice, I will assert that her control over moisture/water is greater than his.

2) Storm is immune to cold. Period. It has nothing to do with Iceman. Its a part of her mutant power. In other words, Iceman would not be able to freeze her. If she allowed him to, he could encase her in a block of ice, but she'd just break free of it with lightning, and she would not be chilled by the ice. Her immunity to cold even extends to her insides as she can channel massive blizzards through her body without being chilled.

3) Iceman controlling ice scupltures is not the same as his moisture control. Storm can control ocean currents. Has Iceman done that? Storm can control the surface tension of water so that she can surf on the ocean waves barefoot. Has Iceman done that? Storm can disperse a being made up of water (Hydroman) simply by thinking about it. Has Iceman done that? Storm can make it rain and also banish rain. Has Iceman done that? Storm may not have demonstrated the ability to create animate ice golems, but her control over water in its liquid form far outdoes Bobby's...and that is what she'll be fighting him over if he tries to pull the moisture out of her body. She should beat him here because she's vastly more powerful and she's stronger-willed.

great rebuttal rut! and just to add to this in regards to cold temperatures in particular:

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#844 Edited by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:

@stormcell:

Make of these scans what you will:

Storm wields near-infinite power: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Hyperbole. She is not wielding near-infinite power, it is just a statement.

Storm is one with the entire planet, and all of its myriad, elemental forces are hers to command: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GDZ_cnSgg0HdlPM8iRjNwURlZtElsnfjx1sVoGCBM-dekOrduIVSBEJSCJ06HQ7jV4SdOKArgqpR=s1600

Again. This is a statement not an actual feat. What they say is "one with the entire planet, and myriad of elemental powers hers to command" what she actually does is: blast Doom with a lightning beam that does NOT put him down.

Storm wields the power of a galactic core (millions of stars crammed into a relatively small area of space spanning lightyears across): https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TA1J3mXX9MxQCeN2xFF3Z0NOKwIeIuHj53uVw6LDmd9gIJV0ASaQxyh2Kp3Io7ZI08gMxMFVdjnu=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Z7nv4mGSzvEUL0Jg08ObnGrIl3ZurnkiUFhYZg45hPn8UU8VY4gzEgR_ofw-8LIR8QJ8nfYvtl8v=s1600

The first of the two links is broken. On the second one Storm draws the power of the core, as she does when she draws power from Earth, except in the scan it kills her to do so, and in this fight she does not have the core of stars to draw power from.

Storm defeats the Trion, the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's past, present, and future: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sWDgSnLobDx-JvrXaPXneRkdHpxfEPmXEbOgUAhd_cje-rfGKkxGj9FUbxTavW4-snDJqTtMtLJf=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zAFw2Hp2Q_e10HNFYttsWLAsThlvAA5AU1l7daz00zAM4fnmmbzKr0_uX4q68JyUWqj8J2JzxTX7=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VkeSn3jQg62t5kA4_eqaVB4Wggn1T5-TsIRwaRK6IuNhKldyz8XJ-bMJhXdbfVZ6zgHEkl0rH2Lc=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Uajj6j4RzQdVbw4Xe5D2MXpWPgmjLBk-Fb0-wJazIHKI9Ak9ciDdW-fj0d8uQhfPSpOeWOLriMRG=s1600

Nowhere on these scans does it show Storm defeating Trion. Did I miss it?

Also, notice she is tapping on the energy of that realm she is at, she has acces to that energy source, a source she does NOT have acces on this battle.

Notice in this scan how she says she could actually destroy the Trion if she wanted to: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TvPqmS93YoaGYpxfQQGfQ9t6E5Yeq2iUs789TaCwml4IkQm0TKb6gOTonUC8a0C1AjjiDmK0StJD=s1600

Yeah, she does SAY she could, but many people say many things in comics.

And then she wields enough power to sew that reality back together when it starts to come apart at its seams: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/W9MiEZhPChlcuV2y7pztz_F3z2g-YTg_UpqhMByUghZ5_KKVQRHqb6zElR6Bv74xJgVNkAg1YsoI=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nNMAtQfQN2gAPJEf56KEfSUBjipxK52KQBCSK_VEl7x_qR1MMt_sLTQ5VcSiSHUy2mNQWojSlHsO=s1600

This is true. And it is impressive. Ok, don't gert me wrong, all the scans you are bringing are very impressive ones. But how is sewing reality back together usefull in battle?

In Fantastic Four #546, we see Human Torch, who has Silver Surfer's powers added to his own, only able to contain Stardust for a few moments. Notice the damage he's doing to Stardust when I bring up what Storm does to this character in the same issue: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxW5lqEWMlniQ0o95UDGrTgwtGzFQHeC6uxCU0hloaWqLKZylP7UFHixAN8cpkMYGIzSaj9kU_I=s1600

Storm does FAR more damage to Stardust with her own powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Sz1uHALLWV4__vy0L2mJXETOgd9oE-iNtpuEjIJNZg9E7xaENrJuQ6CCXj0r1iYGt-Qlb-KDRpOh=s1600

While Stardust reforms herself later after Storm's attack, the point is that even the combined power of Torch and Silver Surfer in one being could not blow up Stardust which Storm did.

The scan does not show the kind of damage Stardust recieves from Storm's attack. We only see the impact, and nothing more. So if it was a lot of damage or very little... It is left to interpretation.

So, essentially, Storm's feats puts her in a powerclass FAR greater than Iceman's even when Bobby is boosted by a death seed.

First off let me note that about half of the feats I presented for Iceman take place AFTER the apocalypse seed has already been REMOVED from Bobby's body, and he retained the same level of power. The examples of omnipresence I showed (the conversations were definitely after it was removed). He has also shown afterwards that he retained it. Even joking making a giant iceman gundam robot he piloted from the inside of a cockpit for fun during a fight with krakoa.

It is generally agreed it isnt an amp and he has said afterwards he could still do it.

That said, I don't see how in a battle against Iceman Storm's powerclass is so far greater. Sure she has done some impressive things, but most of the scans you presented where of Storm using the energy of space or an alternate dimension to power herself, and she does not have access to that on Earth.

Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PIS writing Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.

Iceman was able to control the wheather throught the entire planet, whilst heaving converstions in several places throughout the world at the same time, while keeping Thor at bay (Thor God of Thunder I might add) and creating a gigantic self that elevated out of Earth's atmosphere. So I just don't see how controling the moisture of Ororo's body would be so much of a deal.

Bring me some real battle feats for Storm, in Earth, that would proof to put and keep Iceman down. Because as of now, Iceman does have the upper hand.

1) Storm was very much wielding near-infinite power just like the issue stated. The whole story was to parallel Storm to Dark Phoenix. Furthermore, Claremont gave Storm feats in canon to match and exceed those accomplished by Phoenix/Dark Phoenix.

2) Doom stated that he was no match for Storm. Keep in mind that Doom has technology that even allowed him to steal Galactus's power. So, nice try.

3) Storm totally blew Stardust apart in that scan. Stardust was disintegrated by her blast and had to piece herself back together in a later panel after Storm's attack as shown here: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Jc-hZbEdSRv4F-F-AaYgNdK_OD_zAM5y6MJyVTTZfUGNOVP9p_8kOvgWZmydSGnyfNyy--B9yPbx=s1600

Torch and Surfer's powers combined could not blow Stardust apart like Storm's attack did, and Storm did not tap into the cosmos to do this either. She simply reached into Stardust's body, pulled electrons from her, and then sent those electrons flying back with enough force to blow the herald apart. In other words, Storm could hurl electrons with this kind of force on Earth, or anywhere else she pleases where this subatomic particle exists.

4) The Trion tried to destroy Storm and failed. Also, it was very clear that Storm won that fight. Heck, it was plainly stated that the Trion feared Ororo, hence they tried to capture her at the beginning of the story out of fear of her power. It's painfully obvious to any objective reader that Storm outpowered the Trion. That said, Storm's powers were not boosted in that dimension. Her powers merely adapted to control the natural forces there. This story is a clear example of how much power Storm can wield when she wants to really go for it. In other words, she can wield power in this same quanitity in her home reality since her actual power levels were not boosted or other wise affected. She dwarfs Iceman in power.

5) I'm not going to argue this point with you since Bobby has no feats to compare with Ororo's high end feats, regardless of him having the death seed or not.

6) On Earth, we have seen Storm create a gamma-powered elemental shield around the planet that deflected a world-wrecking blast from the sun. We have seen her wield near-infinite power. We have seen her redirect the full power of Sienna Blaze. Etc.

Also, Iceman doesn't control the weather like you tried to assert. Simply freezing the planet does not equate to weather control. He doesn't control the wind, pressure gradients, electrical impulses, EM shields, gravitational fields, etc. All of those things play into weather control. Heck, he doesn't even really control heat. He simply has a mechanism for removing heat from his target space to lower the temperature (he probably shunts the heat off to another dimension). If it's cold outside, for instance, he can't create a heatwave to warm things up, for instance, nor can he toss heat beams. Storm can do all of that.

@butterflykyss: Thanks! I was looking for the scan from the Classic X-Men back story where Storm went swimming nude at the mansion, but couldn't find it. The issue stated that she was immune to cold. Your scans certainly filled the role of that.

Here is another scan from Uncanny X-Men #120 where Storm says she is never cold: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ODyrsKBWqvvJh0T646GGGP-mkStjDT4bUyEAwS9Kpa2aqcywpaeqMklUnQ1kJiaIoETWN4OC5njc=s1600

And then, in the very next issue, she channels a blizzard through her body powerful enough to last more than 8 months:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/PTo-qX_nySuJBZ95dt_fnwT-uBnULrnWD6fLCbOJZ9YlukDELEHuL-9LLurcwHD5-XM0RRJ94_rR=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/jtGkQF7HSR6FOCwDtf4efqcxH6SdhZ0-G5Y1O9SOxOxDiYRrVOo_8qSAlrHWUewCNiMAFof7JmfC=s1600

This is New Years, by the way. So, it's January. Notice how she says in the first scan that the blizzard had enough power to last that it may not blow itself out till next summer, if then. Summer ends near the end of August/early September. So, that gives us at least 8 months, meaning the blizzard was strong enough to rage for that long. Then, in the second scan, after she channeled the blizzard, she states that it was even more powerful than she thought meaning who knows how long that blizzard could have lasted. It may have been able to last till Christmas.

Anywho, the fact is she channeled this massive blizzard through her body, after flying so high up in the atmosphere where the air was "so cold and thin a normal human would perish in seconds", without feeling any chill externally or internally. To make the feat more impressive, she remained at those altitudes, channeling this massively powerful blizzard for a period of hours.

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#846 Posted by Supermanthor (20344 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman

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#847 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormcell: yes I remember the scan from classic xmen of her swimming. yet again additional examples showing how she is immune to cold.

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#848 Posted by Buckwheat (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:

@stormcell:

Make of these scans what you will:

Storm wields near-infinite power: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Hyperbole. She is not wielding near-infinite power, it is just a statement.

Storm is one with the entire planet, and all of its myriad, elemental forces are hers to command: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GDZ_cnSgg0HdlPM8iRjNwURlZtElsnfjx1sVoGCBM-dekOrduIVSBEJSCJ06HQ7jV4SdOKArgqpR=s1600

Again. This is a statement not an actual feat. What they say is "one with the entire planet, and myriad of elemental powers hers to command" what she actually does is: blast Doom with a lightning beam that does NOT put him down.

Storm wields the power of a galactic core (millions of stars crammed into a relatively small area of space spanning lightyears across): https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TA1J3mXX9MxQCeN2xFF3Z0NOKwIeIuHj53uVw6LDmd9gIJV0ASaQxyh2Kp3Io7ZI08gMxMFVdjnu=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Z7nv4mGSzvEUL0Jg08ObnGrIl3ZurnkiUFhYZg45hPn8UU8VY4gzEgR_ofw-8LIR8QJ8nfYvtl8v=s1600

The first of the two links is broken. On the second one Storm draws the power of the core, as she does when she draws power from Earth, except in the scan it kills her to do so, and in this fight she does not have the core of stars to draw power from.

Storm defeats the Trion, the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's past, present, and future: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sWDgSnLobDx-JvrXaPXneRkdHpxfEPmXEbOgUAhd_cje-rfGKkxGj9FUbxTavW4-snDJqTtMtLJf=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zAFw2Hp2Q_e10HNFYttsWLAsThlvAA5AU1l7daz00zAM4fnmmbzKr0_uX4q68JyUWqj8J2JzxTX7=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VkeSn3jQg62t5kA4_eqaVB4Wggn1T5-TsIRwaRK6IuNhKldyz8XJ-bMJhXdbfVZ6zgHEkl0rH2Lc=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Uajj6j4RzQdVbw4Xe5D2MXpWPgmjLBk-Fb0-wJazIHKI9Ak9ciDdW-fj0d8uQhfPSpOeWOLriMRG=s1600

Nowhere on these scans does it show Storm defeating Trion. Did I miss it?

Also, notice she is tapping on the energy of that realm she is at, she has acces to that energy source, a source she does NOT have acces on this battle.

Notice in this scan how she says she could actually destroy the Trion if she wanted to: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TvPqmS93YoaGYpxfQQGfQ9t6E5Yeq2iUs789TaCwml4IkQm0TKb6gOTonUC8a0C1AjjiDmK0StJD=s1600

Yeah, she does SAY she could, but many people say many things in comics.

And then she wields enough power to sew that reality back together when it starts to come apart at its seams: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/W9MiEZhPChlcuV2y7pztz_F3z2g-YTg_UpqhMByUghZ5_KKVQRHqb6zElR6Bv74xJgVNkAg1YsoI=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nNMAtQfQN2gAPJEf56KEfSUBjipxK52KQBCSK_VEl7x_qR1MMt_sLTQ5VcSiSHUy2mNQWojSlHsO=s1600

This is true. And it is impressive. Ok, don't gert me wrong, all the scans you are bringing are very impressive ones. But how is sewing reality back together usefull in battle?

In Fantastic Four #546, we see Human Torch, who has Silver Surfer's powers added to his own, only able to contain Stardust for a few moments. Notice the damage he's doing to Stardust when I bring up what Storm does to this character in the same issue: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OxW5lqEWMlniQ0o95UDGrTgwtGzFQHeC6uxCU0hloaWqLKZylP7UFHixAN8cpkMYGIzSaj9kU_I=s1600

Storm does FAR more damage to Stardust with her own powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Sz1uHALLWV4__vy0L2mJXETOgd9oE-iNtpuEjIJNZg9E7xaENrJuQ6CCXj0r1iYGt-Qlb-KDRpOh=s1600

While Stardust reforms herself later after Storm's attack, the point is that even the combined power of Torch and Silver Surfer in one being could not blow up Stardust which Storm did.

The scan does not show the kind of damage Stardust recieves from Storm's attack. We only see the impact, and nothing more. So if it was a lot of damage or very little... It is left to interpretation.

So, essentially, Storm's feats puts her in a powerclass FAR greater than Iceman's even when Bobby is boosted by a death seed.

First off let me note that about half of the feats I presented for Iceman take place AFTER the apocalypse seed has already been REMOVED from Bobby's body, and he retained the same level of power. The examples of omnipresence I showed (the conversations were definitely after it was removed). He has also shown afterwards that he retained it. Even joking making a giant iceman gundam robot he piloted from the inside of a cockpit for fun during a fight with krakoa.

It is generally agreed it isnt an amp and he has said afterwards he could still do it.

That said, I don't see how in a battle against Iceman Storm's powerclass is so far greater. Sure she has done some impressive things, but most of the scans you presented where of Storm using the energy of space or an alternate dimension to power herself, and she does not have access to that on Earth.

Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PIS writing Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.

Iceman was able to control the wheather throught the entire planet, whilst heaving converstions in several places throughout the world at the same time, while keeping Thor at bay (Thor God of Thunder I might add) and creating a gigantic self that elevated out of Earth's atmosphere. So I just don't see how controling the moisture of Ororo's body would be so much of a deal.

Bring me some real battle feats for Storm, in Earth, that would proof to put and keep Iceman down. Because as of now, Iceman does have the upper hand.

1 and 2. No it wasnt hyperbole.

In the scan you provided we don't see her wielding near-infinite power, we see her NOT been able to drop Dr. Doom with a blast. So the statement could very well be an hyperbole. If you have scans showing otherwise, please bring them on.

Have you read the actual story?

That's irrelevant since you are the one that mast prove that Storm is as powerful as you say.

She was on the verge of becoming another "Dark Phoenix" that is until she regained her humanity. Her power had grown to that of nearly an entire continent and was expanding.

So, as even you admit, she does not perform at those levels unless she is to lose her humanity. Therefore to pretend Storm is as powerful as you say in average is wrong. She is not. And even when she was, you are jet to prove she is as powerful as you say, since in the scan provided she does nothing more than blasting Doom with inefficient force.

2. Did you read her battle with Trion? She in fact did beat Trion in their own dimension and also healed their dimension.

If she did, please prove it. You see, it's not that I don't believe you, it's just that there are a lot of fans out there that overrate Storm a bit, so if you have a scan in which Strom beats Trion, you are welcome to share it.

Also, Ororo is a goddess who was able to beat Adversary (a god) with her powers and was the only xman who was able to hurt X-Legion when the xmen fought against them in dissembled.

I'm sorry, but Ororo is a mutant, a human mutant to be exact. She is not a Goddess. She is reffered as one, but, as I said earlier, this is also an hyperbole.

3. The scans you showed of him doing all of those impressive things were with him being amped whereas ororo was able to defeat a god-tier being (adversary) all under her own power and has used her powers on a global level as a child and multiple times as an adult.

Over half of the feats I presented for Iceman take place AFTER the apocalypse seed has already been REMOVED from Bobby's body, and he retained the same level of power. The examples of omnipresence I showed (the conversations were definitely after it was removed). He has also shown afterwards that he retained it. Even joking making a giant iceman gundam robot he piloted from the inside of a cockpit for fun during a fight with krakoa.

It is gerally admited that he has that power within him, regardless of the seed.

These powers she most definitely have access to on earth.

Storm uses the power of Earth's elements. When she was in space, she used the power of the Start's core to fuel herself and when she was in Trion's dimension she used the power that she tapped into there. So no, in Earth she will ONLY have access to Earth's powers, not the core's and not Trion's dimenion.

4. Her goddess form battle agaisnt Adversary and her being the only xman that could hurt X-Legion is another recent example of her outclassing Iceman.

Don't tell me. Show me. As of now, I see a lot of statements that confuse of missuse information. You pretend that Ororo will have in Earth the same power she aquired by tapping into Trion's dimension. You talk of her been a Goddess, when she is human... You show Storm using the power of that core os starts in outerspace, as if that is a source she would have access to in Earth...

It's all missinformation and missinterpretation of facts.

Me, I've shown you Iceman covering Thor in ice and possibly puting him out of the fight... I've showed you how Iceman can't be destroyed, how he can reform, how his conciesness can be everywhere and how he can freeze even a FIRE powered rival.

I'm afraid Bobby has the win if we look into the scans presented so far.

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#849 Posted by butterflykyss (5934 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat:

1. See the scans in number 3. Doom was nervously anxious that if they didnt do something they all would be doomed. her objective was to be free to gain more power and not necessarily drop doom

2. Its very much relevant. You're calling scans as hyperbole but if you had read the story it was supposed to call on what happened to jean when she became dark Phoenix. this story happened shortly after the xmen fought against dark Phoenix so disregarding the statement as hyperbole is not correct.

3. I dont think you understand dark Phoenix abilities. she isnt a near infinite being, dark Phoenix is an infinite being. ororo dialed her powers back before reaching infinite levels and hence going dark as jean did:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

4. Ororo after beating them tell them she could destroy them in their dimension:

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5. Ororo becoming an actual goddess is a recent development that occurred in black panther and was confirmed by the xoffices writers in the uncanny xmen issue 11:

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And this is from the writers of uncanny confirming she is a real goddess just so that you dont have to take my word.

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6. the power may be within him but that does put him on the level of ororo nor has he demonstrated said power since the seed was removed. I think it's safe to say he was amped when he displayed those abilities.

7. I think your assessment is a fair one about her natural mutant abilities being that she only have access to the energies that are available on earth however as goddess storm her abilities go beyond natural forces. also she can bend the elements beyond what they exist as on earth, she does risk damping the natural balance beyond a point it can be repaired it she has done so before in canon:

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8. I have not provided misinformation. look at the evidence and let's revisit that statement

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#850 Edited by Stormcell (1699 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing about Storm in the Trion dimension, her power levels remained the same. They were not boosted. In other words, she can control the forces in her home reality at the same level she controlled the forces of the Trion dimension.

Here, it shows how the energies of the dimension amplified Xavier's psi-powers: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SvweEN4cUORKLCQ1X4gGl7MEVS1z7SmJTQPIyhUfew_poA-6l9OGMpjjcxN3lZn0TSfnAynEJDQ_Vg=s1600

Nowhere was it stated that Storm's power levels were amplified by the dimension. All that happened in her case was mutant abilities adapted themselves to control the natural forces of the Trion reality. So, the power levels she wielded there, she wields in her home dimension. The only thing that changes is the nature of the energy she wields. She wields the natural energies of either dimension depending on which one she's in, but her power levels stay the same either way.

Regarding Storm being limited to the Earth's elements, here's the thing: she can amplify the natural forces on Earth far beyond their natural limits. For instance, no wind on Earth would be strong enough to redirect the full power of Sienna Blaze, a mutant powerful enough to split the Earth like a ripe melon. No wind on Earth would be able to lift skyscrapers, throw back million ton tsunami waves moving in at hundreds of miles per hour, etc. When she blew up Stardust in the same issue where the combined power of Human Torch and Silver Surfer wielded by a single being couldn't come anywhere near that kind of power, Ororo did not tap into the universe to create that powerful bolt. She took the electrons directly from Stardust's body and sent them flying back with enough force to disperse her. She did that with her will. In other words, she could throw an attack like that on Earth, too, or anywhere where she can find electron particles.

Storm's powers are limited by the strength of her will and body, and there appears to be no upper limit to her willpower given how she was able to host Eternity because of the strength of her will. It was established in that same issue that neither Silver Surfer, Torch, T'challa, or Thing could manage that and survive. So, what I'm saying is Storm's limits far exceeds the natural limits of Earth's power even while she's on the planet since she can amplify her elemental attacks with the strength of her will and body. It would explain why she does TONS of things on Earth far beyond the scope of power of any natural weather effect.