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#1 Edited by Trixie (998 posts) - - Show Bio
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VS

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  1. (A song of) Ice and Fire
  2. Lightning Lad (5 minutes prep)
  3. Atlee (morals off)
  4. Poison Ivy (10 minutes prep)
  5. Red Tornado
  6. Aspen Matthews (morals off, for Storm as well)
  • Win by Death, knockout or incapacitation
  • In character unless otherwise specified
  • No preparation time unless otherwise specified
  • Fighting on neutral nature grounds here;
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_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  • Bonus:
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#2 Posted by geekryan (4757 posts) - - Show Bio

Could potentially clear, but is likely to stop at Red Tornado

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#4 Posted by Sovngarde (536 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at RT

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#5 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah stops at Reddy. RT at his best easily solos the big 7 JLA. Hes not just a controller of wind but living air.

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#6 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16810 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely 5.

Could even stop at Ivy, due to the latter's high ends.

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#7 Posted by Koays (11488 posts) - - Show Bio

This is gonna get messy....

Feats for Red Tornado?

Online
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#8 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (12613 posts) - - Show Bio

Possibly stops at 5 or 6.

Aspen with morals off could definitely win. Storm could brain scramble her too though (unless Aspen has a defense to that).

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#9 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15366 posts) - - Show Bio

Clear

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#10 Posted by geekryan (4757 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

This is gonna get messy....

Feats for Red Tornado?

Here's his RT

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#11 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays:

hes beaten the entire JLA twice and has controlled the air on two sparate planets simultaineously.

Reddy is the living embodiment of the air who has possessed an android form and at another point just a constructed form

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Hes literally connected to all air in existance and can

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5c6c427da31ab (357 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Red tornado

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#14 Posted by Noone1996 (11859 posts) - - Show Bio

In b4 "idk anything about these characters but Storm casually solos because she's a goddess".

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#15 Posted by IntoTheVoid (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm is a goddess.

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#16 Posted by Supermanthor (20284 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm Clears with difficulty.

Her fighting Red Tornado will be her most challenging one and a long drawn out fight.

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#19 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

In b4 "idk anything about these characters but Storm casually solos because she's a goddess".

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#20 Posted by XLR87T3 (10066 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:..."and can" what? Don't leave us hanging!

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#21 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably stops at Red Tornado, but she is not clearing Aspen Matthews, even if she did somehow make it past RT. Aspen's water and energy manipulation, plus her healing are just too good. Turning into pure water, with complete control over her molecular structure, Storm couldn't even hope to freeze her. Aspen can control the water inside of Storm's body (rip it all out), or just call on a "blue sun" effect, and vaporize Storm, which is likely considering this is morals off. I mean hell, she could just release all of the energy of the water in Storm's body...

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#22 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: conteol all air everywhere. His wind control is beyond planetary. Hes already controlled it on two planets at once.

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#23 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

Possibly stops at 5 or 6.

Aspen with morals off could definitely win. Storm could brain scramble her too though (unless Aspen has a defense to that).

Aspen has energy control, complete control of her molecules, healing/regen, and often turns into water in combat, so there would be no brain to scramble.

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#24 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Honestly, RT should probably be after Aspen in this gauntlet if he has controlled the air on 2 planets.

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#25 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:
@thunderbolt30 said:

Possibly stops at 5 or 6.

Aspen with morals off could definitely win. Storm could brain scramble her too though (unless Aspen has a defense to that).

Aspen has energy control, complete control of her molecules, healing/regen, and often turns into water in combat, so there would be no brain to scramble.

If she is turning into water as often as you say in combat, Storm would turn her into Mist every time as she has done with Hydro-Man.

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#26 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: conteol all air everywhere. His wind control is beyond planetary. Hes already controlled it on two planets at once.

Interesting. Do you have scans of this?

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#27 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio
@mooty_pass said:
@wyldsong said:
@thunderbolt30 said:

Possibly stops at 5 or 6.

Aspen with morals off could definitely win. Storm could brain scramble her too though (unless Aspen has a defense to that).

Aspen has energy control, complete control of her molecules, healing/regen, and often turns into water in combat, so there would be no brain to scramble.

If she is turning into water as often as you say in combat, Storm would turn her into Mist every time as she has done with Hydro-Man.

The problem with this is, Aspen can and has reformed from complete and total disintegration, plus I would argue her control over water is a bit beyond that of Storm (she can make full blown forcefields, control and release the energy from water, make water float in the air to carry things and trap creatures, separate oil from water and float it away from the ocean and more). Plus, the battle is by the ocean...all Storm will be doing is wasting her time with the mist bit, since Aspen can easily reform, heal, add and subtract to her mass, with plenty of water to work with.

Aspen is truly and honestly on another scale of power as compared to Hydro-Man. He truthfully wouldn't even be a blip on her radar. Now, I don't want to make Aspen sound invincible. She truly isn't, but her weaknesses do entail some detailed knowledge of the underwater race of the Blue...which is information Storm would be lacking here.

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#28 Posted by Warlockmage (9312 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Tornado blitzes... hes kept up with people like Impulse (casual not trying) and Superboy... Jay Gerrik implied Red Torndao was as fast if not faster than him.

not to mention im not sure she can actually KO him

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#29 Edited by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass: i did have but the laptop they were on needs to be rebooted with recovery disk. The feat was pre crisis but referred to post coie. He controlled the wind on Rann and Earth

Theres also the one during COIE when Anti- Monitor stripped the air elemental from Reddy and he was attacking heroes on multiple earths at once

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#30 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass: found this with a google search

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4737959-rt+has+powers+that+will+allow+antimonitor+control+of+his+universe.jpg

Anti monitor stated Reddy had power that would allow control of his new universe. Clearly beyond planetary

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#31 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

1. To your first paragraph, I can agree Aspen’s water manipulation is better, but Storm isn’t all that far behind. What separates them is Aspen’s ability to make water constructs and become living energy. To that point I can concede and retract my comment of Storm clearing. But what I disagree with you on their setting of them being near water. Any water form attack is effectively useless since it will become mist over and over and over. People don’t seem to know this, but Storm can manipulate water too and create Tsunamis too. Just look at what she did to the ruins of Genosha in X-Men Red issue #9.

As I said in my comment above sure Storm may not be able to fully Stop Apens, but Storm is far from helpless and would make the fight a lot difficult.

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#32 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Thank You for providing a link, i’m using my phone and that link you posted isn’t working for me so I’ll have to look at that later. Now Red Tonado I’m a bit skeptical because with him I don’t see him beating Storm. Aspen I can agree on but RT not so sure. It’s to my understanding he is composed of nanites. So, what happens if Storm creates a EMP that disables those Nanites what are his counters?? Since we are talking about morals off Storm would be hitting him with her most powerful bolts of lightning and going by her feats they pack a good wallop. So, I wanna know his resistance to high form electric attacks.

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#33 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass: Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Storm would make anything easy. It is just that Aspen has taken down massive water based attacks from a multitude of city level water manipulators facing her all at once. Aspen can pull the moisture from the very air, and manipulate the very water molecules in Storm's body. Plus, Aspen has energy attacks that Storm just flat out has no defenses against, while Aspen can heal, reform and so on, with complete control of the water molecules in her body. Plus if Aspen releases a "blue sun" effect, Storm can't really dodge it, since it just appears around her foes (this a nuclear based effect from the water):

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And this was another member of the Blue she did this to, though it is her underwater race of the Black heritage that allows her to do this...she is mix of both races.

And Storm, playing with storms and making rain...plus with all of the water around, Aspen can just release the energy from the water:

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Which disintegrates even massive ocean monsters. Part of Storm's biggest advantages, comes with using forces based on Aspen's bread and butter. Aspen can even create storms based on her abilities. We have a massive body of water with the ocean, and Aspen can turn into water, without Storm being able to distinguish her enemy from the ocean.

Storm is a tough foe, don't get me wrong. I just don't see her taking Aspen in a morals off battle. Not even in a minority of bouts, not without intel and prep, and possibly a battleground that isn't 100% suited to Aspen, like this one is.

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#34 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

1. To your first paragraph, yes I know that. Which is why I said that Storm would not be able to put her down, or be able to beat her because Aspen is able to survive without a body. I got that I understand that. But the point is any water based attack regardless if she is able to reform from mist is useless is the main point I’m making. Now this energy attack you speak off is it a form of projectile or what? If it is indeed a projectile I don’t understand why Storm can’t just dodge it? Is it light speed or what? Now this “Blue Sun” affect I can agree Storm cannot dodge that.

2. To your second mini paragraph I’m not sure what your trying to say here other than dispersing energy. Let me ask you this what are here resistance to high forms of electric energy?

3. The only way that would happen is if she somehow got Storm underwater. Now, the location picked for the battle the OP never said they are standing next to water. For all we know Storm could be flying. An attack as what your describing(from the looks of the scan you posted) seems to be happening underwater. I don’t think she’d be able to drag Storm down to the depths of the sea if she is being bombarded by Lightning, Tornados, Hurricanes.

4. As I said to you on post #31. I can concede and retract my comment of Storm clearing due to Aspen’s ability of being able to survive without a body. And to add to that her having stronger Hax Abilities than Storm. However, as I said Storm isn’t going down as easy as many may think.

Edit: Thanks for the scans.

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#35 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

1. To your first paragraph, yes I know that. Which is why I said that Storm would not be able to put her down, or be able to beat her because Aspen is able to survive without a body. I got that I understand that. But the point is any water based attack regardless if she is able to reform from mist is useless is the main point I’m making. Now this energy attack you speak off is it a form of projectile or what? If it is indeed a projectile I don’t understand why Storm can’t just dodge it? Is it light speed or what? Now this “Blue Sun” affect I can agree Storm cannot dodge that.

Unless Storm can mist the entire ocean, it doesn't matter. Then, how does Storm distinguish Aspen from the rest of the water that she looks like? Water based attacks aren't useless, since Aspen can use the very water in Storm's body. The Blue sun effect, just kind of appears when Aspen summons it, and releasing the energy from water...imagine a water molecule, be it in a person's body, the ocean, or the very air, suddenly turning into energy. She can make projectiles, sure, but she can just release the energy from water.

2. To your second mini paragraph I’m not sure what your trying to say here other than dispersing energy. Let me ask you this what are here resistance to high forms of electric energy?

The second paragraph had nothing to do with resistance, just her releasing the energy from water. If she is water, without a body, nervous system and so on...not much electricity is going to do to her. Her body has survived in the nuclear ranges as an FYI.

3. The only way that would happen is if she somehow got Storm underwater. Now, the location picked for the battle the OP never said they are standing next to water. For all we know Storm could be flying. An attack as what your describing(from the looks of the scan you posted) seems to be happening underwater. I don’t think she’d be able to drag Storm down to the depths of the sea if she is being bombarded by Lightning, Tornados, Hurricanes.

Not really. That is an example of her releasing the energy from water, she just happens to be underwater. If Storm, create's storms, which involve water, then energy can be released from it. I can give you examples of Aspen surrounding foes with water drawn from the atmosphere and releasing the energy, or overcharging foes with the energy from the water in their very bodies. She doesn't have to drag Storm to the depths to even just rip the water from her body. Morals off, this is all on the table.

4. As I said to you on post #31. I can concede and retract my comment of Storm clearing due to Aspen’s ability of being able to survive without a body. And to add to that her having stronger Hax Abilities than Storm. However, as I said Storm isn’t going down as easy as many may think.

No worries on any of this, and make no mistake, I am not trying to be combative, I am just laying down the options. I can and will gladly provide more scans, just cannot right his second. It is just that without morals, this gives me a lot of ground that could be covered with Aspen, from releasing energy, to the blue sun, to ripping the water from Storm's body...none of which are attacks that can really be dodged, and do not require projectiles. A morals off Aspen...would be a terrifying foe even in the JLA upper tiers levels.

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#36 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

1. I’m not arguing against Aspen ripping the water from Storms body. That’s not my point. The point is any water based attack as in projectile or construct or turning herself into water is useless for those will be turned to Mist very quickly.

2. Let me clarify. Not being in-her water form. What is her resistance to high forms of electric energy.

3. Ok, so you have scans of her doing so above water? Morals off Storm is more likely to use Kinetic Energy (Wind) and Lightning. So your comment of Storm creating Storms is unlikely due to the fact she will try to bombard her with Hurricanes, Lightning and a bunch of F6 tornadoes. Storm is not going to use rain here at least not if she is morals off she won’t.

4. I know her options that’s why I have conceded. I don’t sense any form of you being combative. The fact of the matter is I know now Storm can’t beat Aspen, but stated once more isn’t going down easy.

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#37 Posted by Noone1996 (11859 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm isn't getting outsped. She reacted to Mjolnir and we all know Thor always throws that hammer at massively faster than light speeds. It's only logical that Storm is that fast too. Anybody that disagrees is just a hater.

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#38 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

if the nanites are disabled it only disables the physical form he possesses and frees the air elemental entity that posseses them. It makes him more powerful. That is why she stops at him. Facing JUST the android she may win and cause his destruction but that releases a vastly greater threat

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#39 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2578 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Ivy

If Ivy goes for mind control on storm (which she has done to the earth including the justice league all at once) she would win. And Ivy with 10 minutes prep can easily build plant defenses to protect her while she takes control of Storm.

Ivy is often very underrated on this site

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#40 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

Here are the scans from COIE

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Anti monitor wanted him to contol across a universe

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He simultaineously fought many heroes at many points on three earths

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#41 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Ok, so I’ll have to disagree on that. And say that Storm doesn’t stop at him she stops at Aspen. And here’s why. The scan you posted shows that RT is being controlled by the Antimonitor taxing out his powers to the fullest causing him to become some force of Nature. RT isn’t exactly Fighting 3 teams at the same time. He became a giant Thinderstorm that 3 teams end up taking care of the problem.This stands to reason that RT cannot do such a thing at will. Even if we assume he can when has ever done that morals off in an actual battle situation??

First thanks for responding to my EMP question. So, with your response an EMP does work on him (Another reason why Storm doesn’t stop at him) . Second exactly how powerful is this “elemental” because Storm has seized control over an unnatural weather phenomenon. Her fight with the magic wizard Shaman. Respectfully RT is powerful foe, but against a Morals Off Storm I don’t see him winning. I would say Storm has potential to Stop at him, but she stops at Aspen.

Edit: Thanks for the scans.

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#42 Posted by Risk0608 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

Had no idea Red Tornado was this powerful.

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#43 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

So much wrong with your statement.

1. He didnt turn him into a force of nature he released the force of nature that possesses RT.

2. That is only 1 of 4 times it has happened. Tornado Tyrand vs JLA pre coie, tornado tyrant vs Rann and earth pre coie and tornado tyrant vs jla post COIE (a story which referenced the first two showing they were still canon)

3. It wasnt just 3 teams there are 2 whole pages of battle between the scans (I've loaded pages 16,17 and 20 as forum rules limit me to 3 pages of an issue) including a lot more characters.

4. It took the combined power of Thunderbolt, Zatanna, Sargon, and Classic Dr Fate in an orchestrated and combined assault to contain the winds RT created. The lowest two powered of these (Sargon and Zatanna) are equal to Storm the other two significantly above.

5. Even with all 4 trying to bring the wind under control separately they couldnt. It wasnt until they combined their efforts and worked together that their control was greater.

Thunderbolt alone could solo a team of xmen with Storm and a couple other alphas in it. Classic Fate fought sky fathers every other issue and even recreated the earth and all life on it after it was destroyed by one of gis battles. Storm isnt matching a feat either one can do solo let alone teamed with Zatanna and Sargon.

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#44 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

1. Ok.

2. So, the question is this can he become this entity by leaving his Android body at any given moment??? If he can’t theres no reason to say that he will in this battle. And if he does I don’t see why Storm can’t seize control of his unnatural weather like she had done before and with Shamans magical Blizzard.

3. Ok, noted. Thank You.

4/5. This harkens back to my #2 response. I can’t help but say the same thing take control of him and then disperse him.

That statement is based on your opinion. I can’t argue against that because I don’t know who Thunderbolt is. If Classic Fate a God of Order someone who fights Sky Fathers as you said every other issue and recreated Earth couldn’t handle this? Sounds like major PIS then. Because if that’s the case RT is above Sky Father level then. And is more powerful than Classic Fate which I find absurd.

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#45 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

So, the question is this can he become this entity by leaving his Android body at any given moment???

The entity is always a part of him. The air elemental that is red Tornado is a merger of two air forces. one the tornado Tyrant that was born or Rann and the other the Tornado Champion born on earth. When it possessed the otherwise non functioning form of the Android Red Tornado created by T.O. Morrow there was a feedback that erased the air elementals memory.

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Every time his body has been destroyed or severely damaged it has been released.

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The very nano tech that is a part of the current Reddy was created by Cyborg in an attempt to prevent that so that the entity within doesn't get free again. Here are some examples of what it is capable of (after a bit more of a search)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In JLA 17 it can absorb and use the powers of the JLA themselves against themselves.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

In the pages of two issues of Capt Atom where the JLI were involved it even had the power to face the entire quantum field. it took the power of Swamp thing to pull them into the green to reason with them to end the conflict.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

in JLA 193 only one half of the entities essence again stomps the JLA. In JLA 17 it was only defeated with Anti energy, that didn't destroy it but weakened the evil half so that the good half could take over and make it eventually merge with T.O. Morrow's created android.

If he can’t theres no reason to say that he will in this battle.

Except you said Storm would take his body out with electromagnetics. body down air elemmental freed.

I can’t argue against that because I don’t know who Thunderbolt

Thunderbolt is a 5th dimensional Djinn. another race from Mr Mxy's world. They're only a little less powerful than Mxy. He casually beat Mrdru, the same guy who could solo the combined JLA/JSA/ LoSH

Because if that’s the case RT is above Sky Father level then. And is more powerful than Classic Fate which I find absurd.

In the war of the elementals in Firestorm 91,92, 93 he was shown to be equal in power to Swamp Thing. At his peak Swamp thing is shyfather + as are all the DC elemmentals. that's my whole point. all DC elementals are the power of all the element they are everywhere.

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#46 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9904 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

I will respond to your scans in time as soon as I get to a PC.

But I wanna say my piece. After doing my own research on this entity it stands to show that RT’s body actually has been destroyed and the entity doesn’t escape. So, I don’t think that will happen. Now, I can agree this Wind based Entity is very powerful, but throughout your scans there’s nothing that suggest Storm can’t take control of him. Beating the JLA is very impressive, but none of them had the ability to manipulate or control the weather. After all he is merely made out of Wind a basic fundamental force of nature that Storm has full control over. But I’ll be back as soon as I can.

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#47 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

1. I’m not arguing against Aspen ripping the water from Storms body. That’s not my point. The point is any water based attack as in projectile or construct or turning herself into water is useless for those will be turned to Mist very quickly.

I am going to say, I don't think Storm is turning Aspen into mist on the basis that she did it to Hydro-Man. While I checked the instance and it is impressive, Aspen's water control over herself and water in general is far greater than that of Hydro-Man (considering she can perform nuclear fusion to create heavy water and so on). Not to mention, we are talking about her having a whole ocean to manipulate near her. Water heals and rejuvenates Aspen, and being near a large source of it, again, unless Storm has misted an entire ocean, I just cannot really get behind the idea of her managing to keep doing this to Aspen. Aspen can go water form, hang out in the ocean itself, blending in with it.

Plus, there is the level of her water attacks. She can one shot entire naval fleets (and the jets and helicopters flying around the fleet along with it) and draw enough water to the sky to darken the countryside to create storms. Do we have examples of her misting that much water at once, and misting the water that is under the control of a water manipulator of Aspen's caliber? I can get you scans of all of this by the way, just not right this second.

Though even if she did manage this, I think you at least agree it would only be a matter of time, and that she would only be delaying the inevitable. So, I won't argue it too much more.

2. Let me clarify. Not being in-her water form. What is her resistance to high forms of electric energy.

When channeling energy, she is generally in her water form, since it is mid combat. The best you see with her actual physical durability is withstanding the pressures of the deep, tanking tonner level hits, tanking a missile fired from a fighter jet and getting immediately back up, and being in a machine while performing nuclear fusion in it and creating heavy water. Couple that with her healing and reforming from having her body disintegrated, you can see why she is a tough foe.

There was one instance where a woman with mystical abilities and tech managed to knock out Aspen with a form of energy while in her human form, we just don't what it was that she used, and it was a prep scenario. That is where specialized knowledge of the Blue/Black comes in handy.

3. Ok, so you have scans of her doing so above water? Morals off Storm is more likely to use Kinetic Energy (Wind) and Lightning. So your comment of Storm creating Storms is unlikely due to the fact she will try to bombard her with Hurricanes, Lightning and a bunch of F6 tornadoes. Storm is not going to use rain here at least not if she is morals off she won’t.

While in a domed area under the sea, this was an open air environment mind you, she pulled moisture from the air around her foe, and released the energy, knocking him out. And while out of the water (but near it), we have one of her blowing open a creature that had a hold of her:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And here she is taking moisture from the air and gathering the energy from it to blow apart some prison bars:

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There are more examples of her drawing moisture out of air and blasting down security doors and more. Plus firing off energy blasts and the like, plus the Blue Sun effect and so on. Basically, the overall point being, she doesn't need to be beneath the water to release the energy from it. What would prevent her from doing so to creatures she is facing, would be her morals, though she has killed before as you have seen. Regardless, without morals, she is probably more likely to use the Blue Sun effect or just straight up rip the water out of Storm's body. The releasing the energy bit, is more less just another option that could be feasible, since as you have seen, she has done it, and it can be deadly. Probably not her primary go to in a morals off fight.

4. I know her options that’s why I have conceded. I don’t sense any form of you being combative. The fact of the matter is I know now Storm can’t beat Aspen, but stated once more isn’t going down easy.

Like I said, I know Storm would not make it easy, so we are in agreement for the most part.

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#48 Posted by beatboks1 (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass:

I'm unaware of a single instance in which rt's body being destroyed did not release the entity. there was the instance in the 2006 jla run where his AI was uploaded into the Justice League computers and the AI existed in that way but the Entity was still released and was a separate character as well.

Zatanna is a mage whose power is to control the elements. literally the fight with the jla in 193 was a verse team that included in its members a character who has the exact same power set as storm, to the exact same level. hence why I mentioned earlier they were equals.

Thunderbolt (who is a reality warper) and Doctor Fate both have the ability to control the elements on a grander scale than either storm or Zatanna and both have failed individually even working at the same time without cooperating and working as a combined unit to control his wind (as did Zatanna and Sargon).

Instead it took all four of those characters to combine and work together in a co-ordinated effort to be able to gain control of his form. essentially we're talking about the fact that 2 equals to storm plus two graters to storm combined working as a unit could only then control the wind above RT's own control, yet you believe storm will with less than one-quarter of the power the combined effort used?

NLF MUCH

RT has the feats to show the limits of the power. Storm doesnt have the feats to match. Shaman is at best equal to Sargon, below Zatanna and massively below Fate ot Thunderbolt in magical power. Being able to control a wind his magic created is <<<<<<<<< requiring the magic of all four of these to stop a wind

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#49 Posted by kasya_carey (5604 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I would imagine so... the justice league can’t fight or manipulate air. Storm can

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#50 Posted by kasya_carey (5604 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao if RT universal then I guess we should use all of Storm outlier feats too 😭😭😭