Starship Hulk Vs. Doomsday and Mongul:
The Rules:
- Morals Off/Bloodlust.
- Neutral Dimension.
- Random Encounter.
- Current Starship Hulk(No Titan).
- New 52 and Rebirth versions
- Win by any means.
LOCATION:
Starship Hulk Vs. Doomsday and Mongul
@vjbthe3: Sure
Those are all the relevant pages.
@thedailybagel: It depends on the planet itself but for Earth specifically it's actually around 45% of it's mass
https://www.livescience.com/64042-earth-weight-in-neutrinos.html
"And the method worked reasonably well. The scientists came to a similar estimate of Earth's mass: about 13 septillion lbs. (6 septillion kg). They also measured Earth's core mass at 6 septillion lbs. (2.72 septillion kg). That's 45 percent of the planet's total mass, and significantly higher than the results from seismic measurements, which estimate the core makes up 33 percent of Earth's total mass."
@superprimetime: Clearly it is an overstatement if your trying to use physics to justify a planet’s core in comic having 45% of the planets mass when physics would dictate it can’t. Even the part about it being dense is okay but the fact it doesn’t exert its own gravity means it couldn’t be that heavy to begin with. At least not using physics.
It's not because the intent is very clear as well the author didn't use this feat to suggest Hulk is solar system level or above, he used it to suggest he is planetary even calling him Worldbreaker in the same issue which we all know what thats a reference to. Also you can't have it both ways, if the core doesn't produce enough gravity to pull everything towards it than it also can't be strong enough to withstand being constantly pelted around all the way into space and back. And we know it is and that it's very, very dense and very durable as well.
It's pretty obvious the writer didn't care or know much about the gravity effect, just wanted to make a silly game where there are beings strong enough to break planets until they get to their cores, pummel theose cores until they become dense and strong enough and then play super volleyball with it.
It doesn't mean it can't be that heavy it just means the writer didn't know what he was doing because he is a comic book writer, not someone interested in physics. We don't have to use exact physics we still have someone using planetary cores(stated in the comic) playing volleyballs with them and breaking planets(stated in the comic) to make more planetary cores, the 45% is irrelevant, this is still clearly a planetary feat.
Your mistaken
No i disagree, you are either trying to use a double standard or you are complaining for the sake of complaining, motives notwithstanding.
1. Im well aware of the clear author intent for this to imply hulk and all the other hulks are planet level easily, my point was that you can’t use real world physics the way you have, you used it in a manner to highball a feat, when using physics it had to be used unbiased and in fact if we used physics unbiased it would dictate the feat even without calculation be below moon level just using common sense as even the moon pulls on the tides yet those cores pull on nothing while being literally on the surface.
Then you are just arguing either for the sake of arguing or trying to downplay the feat because it's not something they wanna see Hulk which is especially funny when you realize that this isn't even the top 3 biggest feats this Hulk has had in a 11 issue short run so far.
But as you said and hopefully wont retract, this is very clearly meant to imply that Hulk is at planetary level(at the very bottom of his anger). Also for the love of god please don't tell me about Moon pulling the tides and that crap, every week and i do mean EVERY week i see characters casually talking in space without any writer giving a flying f@ck about it, i see characters sometimes pull and push entire planets without their hands sinking into them, i see characters move at FTL without causing massive nuclear level explosions or even harming humans they move inches close to, i see WW pulling the Sun with a lasso and i chuckle and move on despite the fact that there are at least 17 different ways that can't work, i see Superman pushing a planet the size of Venus without going straight to it, i see even street tier characters go through black holes and come out the other side unharmed, etc... There is no "common sense" with comics, which is why i was never a fan of people trying to arbitrarily calculate feats that the writers themselves never considered to do.
2. That being said the same way I agree with the author intent means in future we should remember authors aren’t scientists, maybe I remembered wrong but I could’ve sworn u once tried to highball Hulk using a richter scale calc that had Hulk at universal even tho authors have no clue that jumps from 1 to 2 on a richter scale are exponential and that the planet wasn’t harmEd smh, maybe I’m remember wrong but author intent didnt suggest hulk was universal at all, another instance is lowballing of the superman destroying the shadow man as if authors didn’t intend for the moon to weigh as much as the moon and people even said the dc moon weighs less then the real moon to lowball.
Then why are you holding them up to that standard? I NEVER used the Hulk richter scale to argue that Hulk is universal lol. Do you mean me making fun of or just mentioning the fact that Greg Pak wrote Amadeus Cho Hulk hitting the Moon at over 100 on the richter scale(can't remember the exact number and too lazy to search) which some people calculated would make the energy output much higher than the Big Bang. I think you might be referring to that, but i would need you to tell me where i actually used that in earnest or to debate Chulk is universal, otherwise this is some poor attempt at character assassination. The ONLY thing i argued for that feat is what the intent clearly was which is to say that he could break the Moon, which is what the comic itself also said at the time, not that he could break the universe.
Basically I have no quarrel with Hulk being planetary my quarrel is with double standards on this site and while I may have remembered wrong and it wasn’t you at least I would’ve spread awareness
Whether you have a quarrel to that is irrelevant to the fact, Hulk didn't wake up last Wendsday and become planetary he has been at that level for several decades now. The only real difference is that this feat was more casual than his usual stuff since we got a direct confirmation that he can preform all this while being at the very bottom of his anger. Otherwise nothing has changed, just more planetary level feats for Hulk to add to an already considerable pile.
Also i dunno what double standards you think i used here other than to present Hulk as planetary which is what you also agree with here? I mean you could say i was using double standard if i said he was being large/multi-planetary with this feat since if you calculated it as you said you did, you would discover that the energy needed to slap something like Earths core into outer space in mere seconds would require such energy outputs to begin with and that's not what i argued for.
@underfire47 said:
@superprimetime: Clearly it is an overstatement if your trying to use physics to justify a planet’s core in comic having 45% of the planets mass when physics would dictate it can’t. Even the part about it being dense is okay but the fact it doesn’t exert its own gravity means it couldn’t be that heavy to begin with. At least not using physics.
It's not because the intent is very clear as well the author didn't use this feat to suggest Hulk is solar system level or above, he used it to suggest he is planetary even calling him Worldbreaker in the same issue which we all know what thats a reference to. Also you can't have it both ways, if the core doesn't produce enough gravity to pull everything towards it than it also can't be strong enough to withstand being constantly pelted around all the way into space and back. And we know it is and that it's very, very dense and very durable as well.
It's pretty obvious the writer didn't care or know much about the gravity effect, just wanted to make a silly game where there are beings strong enough to break planets until they get to their cores, pummel theose cores until they become dense and strong enough and then play super volleyball with it.
It doesn't mean it can't be that heavy it just means the writer didn't know what he was doing because he is a comic book writer, not someone interested in physics. We don't have to use exact physics we still have someone using planetary cores(stated in the comic) playing volleyballs with them and breaking planets(stated in the comic) to make more planetary cores, the 45% is irrelevant, this is still clearly a planetary feat.
Your mistaken
No i disagree, you are either trying to use a double standard or you are complaining for the sake of complaining, motives notwithstanding.
1. Im well aware of the clear author intent for this to imply hulk and all the other hulks are planet level easily, my point was that you can’t use real world physics the way you have, you used it in a manner to highball a feat, when using physics it had to be used unbiased and in fact if we used physics unbiased it would dictate the feat even without calculation be below moon level just using common sense as even the moon pulls on the tides yet those cores pull on nothing while being literally on the surface.
Then you are just arguing either for the sake of arguing or trying to downplay the feat because it's not something they wanna see Hulk which is especially funny when you realize that this isn't even the top 3 biggest feats this Hulk has had in a 11 issue short run so far.
But as you said and hopefully wont retract, this is very clearly meant to imply that Hulk is at planetary level(at the very bottom of his anger). Also for the love of god please don't tell me about Moon pulling the tides and that crap, every week and i do mean EVERY week i see characters casually talking in space without any writer giving a flying f@ck about it, i see characters sometimes pull and push entire planets without their hands sinking into them, i see characters move at FTL without causing massive nuclear level explosions or even harming humans they move inches close to, i see WW pulling the Sun with a lasso and i chuckle and move on despite the fact that there are at least 17 different ways that can't work, i see Superman pushing a planet the size of Venus without going straight to it, i see even street tier characters go through black holes and come out the other side unharmed, etc... There is no "common sense" with comics, which is why i was never a fan of people trying to arbitrarily calculate feats that the writers themselves never considered to do.
2. That being said the same way I agree with the author intent means in future we should remember authors aren’t scientists, maybe I remembered wrong but I could’ve sworn u once tried to highball Hulk using a richter scale calc that had Hulk at universal even tho authors have no clue that jumps from 1 to 2 on a richter scale are exponential and that the planet wasn’t harmEd smh, maybe I’m remember wrong but author intent didnt suggest hulk was universal at all, another instance is lowballing of the superman destroying the shadow man as if authors didn’t intend for the moon to weigh as much as the moon and people even said the dc moon weighs less then the real moon to lowball.
Then why are you holding them up to that standard? I NEVER used the Hulk richter scale to argue that Hulk is universal lol. Do you mean me making fun of or just mentioning the fact that Greg Pak wrote Amadeus Cho Hulk hitting the Moon at over 100 on the richter scale(can't remember the exact number and too lazy to search) which some people calculated would make the energy output much higher than the Big Bang. I think you might be referring to that, but i would need you to tell me where i actually used that in earnest or to debate Chulk is universal, otherwise this is some poor attempt at character assassination. The ONLY thing i argued for that feat is what the intent clearly was which is to say that he could break the Moon, which is what the comic itself also said at the time, not that he could break the universe.
Basically I have no quarrel with Hulk being planetary my quarrel is with double standards on this site and while I may have remembered wrong and it wasn’t you at least I would’ve spread awareness
Whether you have a quarrel to that is irrelevant to the fact, Hulk didn't wake up last Wendsday and become planetary he has been at that level for several decades now. The only real difference is that this feat was more casual than his usual stuff since we got a direct confirmation that he can preform all this while being at the very bottom of his anger. Otherwise nothing has changed, just more planetary level feats for Hulk to add to an already considerable pile.
Also i dunno what double standards you think i used here other than to present Hulk as planetary which is what you also agree with here? I mean you could say i was using double standard if i said he was being large/multi-planetary with this feat since if you calculated it as you said you did, you would discover that the energy needed to slap something like Earths core into outer space in mere seconds would require such energy outputs to begin with and that's not what i argued for.
Naw dude, Braniac's ship was really light because it didn't rip apart Earth from the gravity involved! He couldn't have benched the real weight of Earth or he would've gone through the floor! He didn't even pull a real star because that's not even possible to do!
@superprimetime: I am gonna drop most of the other stuff since we got over the whole physics thing and the 45% number. I just wanna address a few things outside of it that still bother me.
Well as an example in 3 months. Doomsday will have evolved to Doombreaker but I can’t use that doomsday as he’ll be a different form of doomsday not present in this battle, but when hulk uses higher levels it will be the same hulk and if he’s fighting doomsday and mongul he’ll have always had this level of power it’s just a matter of setting hulk to the right level. But a weakened Doomsday fighting countess heroes in Dark crisis seems more impressive then fighting just Thor especially since Black Adam gave his power to all the heroes present, doomsday is nothing but a tank basically heals on the spot, only way Hulk would win is if he outright detsroys Doomsday without a trace lest Doomsday come back stronger like he will in the upcoming Doombreaker storyline.
I am sorry but this doesn't make sense to me... First off i dunno what Doomsday evolving to Doombreaker has to do with whether or not Hulk himself will get feats good enough(for you specifically) to say he can beat Doomsday. We have no way of knowing that. Yes Hulk is at the bottom level of his anger right now but that may not translate properly into feats later on.
Secondly i may be wrong but i checked the Dark Crisis story and from what little Doomsday shows up so far i don't see what he is doing that's so significant? He isn't fighting countless heroes by himself the way you say it, there are countless heroes fighting EACH OTHER while DD never takes on more than 1 or 2 that we see from him mostly in the background for literally a single panel. Other than that he also gangs up on Jon Kent together with a few other characters including Darkseid. So i am not seeing how that is more impressive than Hulk going all out against OF Thor? Black Adam giving all the heroes some of his powers doesn't really help much either. Hell Hulk didn't even JUST take on OF Thor at one point he takes on OF Thor with Hulk powers, a Thor so powerful in less than 2 full issues he breaks the whole Bifrost bridge just by resisting being teleported by Sif
Gallery
The same Thor that has enough power to from a single clash with Mljonir Hulk break a whole planet
Gallery
The same Thor that resisted every power in the known realm trying to restrain him and broke Ygdrassil the world tree itself
Gallery
The same Thor that just straight up ripped Hulks limb
The same Thor that was tearing up a Hulkbuster Celestial like it was made of paper
Against that same Thor, Hulk managed to hold his own for a while even tanking a flurry of punches before he got the Thor upgrade himself
Gallery
Now unless i am missing some other appearances to me this is way, WAAAAAY more impressive than Doomsday fighting some random heroes in the background for a couple of pages, ganging up on Jon Kent with several other villains and getting stopped by Superman then punted through several cars by Superman and his son
Gallery
Edit: missed a page when uploading
Like please... tell me how??? How is this more impressive for Doomsday than the stuff i posted above.
And lastly, again i don't like presenting things that are yet to happen with such certainty. Yes it's very likely that Doomsday will be shown as more powerful when he comes back as Doombreaker mostly because he barely even has any appearances in Rebirth as far as i know, so it's not like he has a tough job in front of him. But i bring this up because we can't state stuff like this with such conviction like it's a 100% fact. Kluh was meant to be a Hulks Hulk, was even wanked by the writer at the time in an interview and then he appeared and did basically nothing... just did what any other Hulk would do, mostly appearing in the background and kinda jobbed to a Apocalypse clone, that's it. I say all of this because i still don't get how you made up your mind that Hulk can't beat DD now but you know for sure he will in 3 more issues??? It seems like you just said something that you know you can't know for certain and are now trying to justify it in a weird way that don't make much sense to me.
Nobody is using calcs though? We’re saying “this is what a planet core typically weighs in the case of an earth sized planet” which is the gold standard of planet level on CV. Nobody is working out how much force is takes to slap it into the atmosphere…
Yea this whole hang up over a simple 45% of Earths mass number is way overblown, it's not me going around doing exact "calculations" on the feat as i never calculated anything i just did a simple google search and got a simple number... Using the gold standard of CV which is Earth, since whenever we see a planet being involved in a feat and as long as we don't have any clear visual way to determine it's size, no weight/mass or statement about it, we just assume it's similar to Earth. Funnily enough I did have someone else calculate the feat for me just for fun on discord, they told me depending on how fast Hulk slaps the ball into outer space and assuming it's the same mass as Earths core it would make that feat Large to multi-planetary for Hulk. Now if i used this to argue that Hulk preformed a large planetary/multi-planetary feat that would be me using calculations but i never did any of this i never even said the feat is large planetary/multi-planetary.
@superprimetime:you guys are right I apologise for wasting everyone time smh. Nah I misinterpreted what was said I must be getting dumber with age smh.
It's fine no need to apologize, if it's a misunderstanding than we can just move on like nothing happened. I do wish you told me what makes current DD so impressive because his first fight in Rebirth against Superman was ok but nothing compared to Starship Hulk vs OF Thor and his latest appearances is kinda meh to me...
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