Star King Kirito vs Super Saiyan 3 Goku

@fearreaperredux:

Super Saiyan 3 Goku was causing extensive damage to the Sacred World of the Kai during his fight against Kid Buu, the planet itself is so big that it's considered the size of many galaxies.

Source?

Goku walks over and unplugs Kirito from his fanfic world.

@fearreaperredux:

Shaking a universe isn't multi galaxy... it's unquantifiable.

The Feat

Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation shakes the entirety of a universe-sized realm

The Calc

Based on Kep's calc method: (basically the same text)

So, I'm going to massively lowball this. The Other World is mostly solid ground, unlike the actual universe which is, of course, an endless vacuum with a few planets and stars. But we can't use a real earthquake's seismic wave, due to the fact that the formulas we have were all designed with a planet-bound quake in mind. It'd highball the result massively.

In virtue of this fact, I will use inverse square law for this calculation also.

Anyway, the Mercalli scale at distance here is pretty clear. Grand Kai's chair fell over, everything shook massively and the tournament stadium was noticeably cracking. That's a solid 6, at the very least.

The radiated seismic energy of a 6 quake is 6.309573e13 joules, going by this. Spherical surface area formula is 4*pi*r^2, but we will halve that since the quake was ground-capped. The universe is 1.76x10^27 meters in radius.

Calculations

With the Radius of the Universe:

6.309573e+13 * (1/2*4*pi*((1.76e27)/2)^2) =3.070048 × 10⁶⁸joules which is still 3-C but high-end.

• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_2nd_Existential_Seed/Dragon_Ball_Universe_size#

When the diameter of the universe is used:

6.309573e+13 * (1/2*4*pi*(1.76e27))^2) = 1.228019 × 10⁶⁹joules which is Multi-Galaxy level or 3-B.

Conclusion

In any case, I think the radius method would be more consistent to be used and this method was accepted in the past. In any case, it is up to the members of the Calculation Groups and the community at large.

It is? Can you show me where this is stated?

Kid Buu's outrageous power in DBZ

So Kid buu's power is a hotly contested thing and has been for a long time, mostly due to differing opinions of what should be taken as literal, and what should be taken as hyperbolic, also due to unknown time frames for statements and feats. But in DBZ he has one feat of being able to destroy the Grand Kais planet in that instant with one attack, which is not ambiguous or hyperbolic at all.

The big issue with this is nobody knew the size of the Grand Kais planet. However I believe I have sufficiently found an accurate estimate for it's size, based on a direct side by side screenshot of the planet, and heaven (which is the size of the Universe), and a second screenshot showing the planets relatively tight orbit of Heaven, along with it being somewhat comparable in size to heaven, and not simply up close to the viewer, due to it being depicted behind the visible curvature of heavens surface, as the plane travels away from the viewer towards it after it came out from the horizon.

So by using some simple pixel scaling with Heaven being the diameter of the Observable Universe to be conservative, I found the approximate size of Grand kais Planet.

https://imgur.com/a/kIPO2mk

Heaven: 245 pixels

Grand Kais Planet: 9 pixels

9/245 = 0.0367

8.798e26m (diameter of Observable Universe/Heaven) x 0.0367 (GK Planet compared to Heaven) = 3.228866e25m or 3,412,914,055 light years.

Now with the size of the Grand Kai's Planet out of the way, we can move on to the speed and power of Kid Buu's attack that can wipe out a planet 3,412,914,055 light years in Diameter!

Energy needed to destroy

As seen here it is stated that Buu would destroy the Grand Kai's Planet.

https://imgur.com/a/wVALigh

Now a simple calculation to find how many joules of energy you would need to accomplish such a feat. We can easily just use the GBE of a Planet of that size with the same gravity as Earth for an approximation, even if it is a low ball. We can use a calculator for this to increase accuracy and give us an upper and lower yield. All we need to do is plug in the diameter in Km of GK planet, which is 3.23e22km.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Calculator.html

https://imgur.com/a/CrBrcqP

As we can see here, the resulting numbers are

Low end (less accurate): 3.642E+87 joules (Multi-Galaxy level)

High end (More accurate due to faster dispersion): 4.999E+113 joules (Well above Observable Universe level)

SO to summarize kid Buu is actually multi-galaxy to Universe level in the anime, due to being able to destroy Grand kai's planet with a single ki blast.

No he doesn't, GT Goku is multi galaxy+ at best.

Index

• Reasoning
• Counter-Arguments

Reasoning

The founding stone of the upgrade is first of all, Super Yi Xing Long/Omega Shenron's Minus Energy Power Ball. This attack is stated twice, by both Oob and Yi, to be the combined negative energy of all the Evil Dragons condensed and heavily concentrated on a focal point in order to deal more damage:

With the fact that the attack is a condensed energy attack being known, then we will look at the statements regarding its dangers.

After reabsorbing the 4-star Dragon Ball, Yi Xing Long remarks that his negative energy has once again been gathered to the point where he will be able to destroy the entire universe:

https://gfycat.com/ImmenseWhiteAndeancondor

The literal translation of what is stated here is the following:

完璧だ｡ 再び 四星球を取り込んだことにより➡俺は 完全になった｡ これからは 俺が神だ｡➡何でもかんでも ぶち壊す 破壊神だ｡➡全宇宙を この俺のﾏｲﾅｽﾊﾟﾜｰで 破壊し尽くしてやる｡

• "I'm perfect. By obtaining the four star ball I have become perfect. From this moment on, I am god. I'll destroy anything and everything. The god of destruction. I'll utterly destroy the entire universe with my minus power."

Yi's statement prompts Elder Kaioshin to say there's no hope left, and Kibitoshin, who was looking at Earth at the moment, frantically asks him what will happen. What ensues is his infamous explanation of the Minus Energy Power Ball's abilities:

https://gfycat.com/FoolhardyNauticalAmmonite

The literal Japanese translation:

"そして しまいにゃあ 地球自体が腐ってしまう｡➡ いや それだけではない｡➡やがて 地球から あふれ出したﾏｲﾅｽｴﾈﾙｷﾞｰは➡次々と 周囲の星々をも浸食し➡やがては 銀河全体が腐って なくなってしまうじゃろう｡➡じゃ… じゃあ この界王神界も｡➡うむ｡ 無事では 済まないじゃろうな｡➡た… 大変じゃないですか!➡早く逃げましょう｡"

• "Elder Kaioshin: And, in the end, the world itself will rot. And it won’t stop there. Soon, negative energy overflowing from that world will erode the surrounding celestial bodies until, entire galaxies will rot and disappear."

• "Kibitoshin: Then... then our world will be affected too?!"

• "Elder Kaioshin: Yes. Our world isn’t safe from it either."

The most important portion of this explanation is the bolded part above, which establishes that the negative energy condensed on Earth would "overflow", eroding the surrounding stars and worlds. Let's look at the meaning of the word "overflow"

• "To flow over the bounds of; to fill a space beyond its limits and capacity."

This establishes that the destruction of the universe would ensue because the condensed and concentrated energy located on Earth is so full to the brim that it ends up leaking beyond the Earth, with the small droplets of negative energy that flow from the original Minus Energy Ball eroding and destroying the surrounding stars and worlds. All of that overflow negative energy come from the same condensed power source, still.

If the condensed Minus Power Ball can supply the energy required to destroy Universe 7 before it is fully depleted, that means its condensed energy output is 3-A, despite its small area of effect.

Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta purified all of the condensed energy inside the Minus Energy Power Ball into positive energy when he kicked it away into space, destroying the field of minus energy surrounding Earth. Which means he scales to its energy with his physical attacks.

Therefore I propose:

• Super Yi:3-B, 3-A with the Minus Energy Power Ball

• Gogeta: 3-A

Answering Counter-Arguments

1: The Minus Energy Power Ball is a chain reaction and only works by destroying the universe over a vast period of time

Rebuttal: While it's true that the area of effect of the Minus Ball is not Universal, that doesn't matter as per our standards on attack potency. What actually matters is the condensed attack potency displayed by it:

Attack Potency

• A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level [. . .] We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well [. . .] The attack potency depends upon the energy output of the attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

I have provided the quotes that state the Minus Energy Power Ball is the combined negative energy of the Evil Dragons, which can destroy the universe, except heavily condensed and concentrated on a focal point, as you may have already seen.

Likewise, the highlighted bit I pointed on Elder Kaioshin's explanation of the Minus establishes that the Minus Energy Ball concentrated on Earth is the source of all the overflown energy that destroys the rest of the universe; the Minus Energy Ball merely radiates small pockets of negative energy onto other worlds until its energy source is fully depleted, but by that point the entire universe is already gone.

An analogy I can use for this point to be better understood is the following:

• The energy required to destroy the universe is 1,000,000,000 units of energy.

• The Minus Ball has a condensed power source of 1,000,000,000 units.

• The energy required to destroy a star is 0.1 units.

• The Minus Ball radiates 0.1 units of negative energy onto other worlds, lowering its original condensed power. By the time all 1,000,000,000 units have been spent, the entire universe will have already been destroyed.

Another example:

• A character that is 3-C can fire an energy blast; said energy blast will destroy a galaxy, but after it destroys the galaxy it will vanish/dissipate, because all of its energy will have been spent in order to perform such feat.

• A character that can destroy 52 galaxies can fire an energy blast. Said energy blast will destroy a galaxy, and after it destroys one galaxy it will keep going, destroying another and so on, until it has destroyed 52 galaxies; when that happens, it will dissipate because all of its energy will have been spent to perform this feat.

Likewise, the Minus Energy Ball, by virtue of being a condensed energy attack of the 3-A order, fits into the above. This argument ends up not working at all.

2: The Minus Energy Power Ball expands its energy gradually the more worlds it spreads to, thus it isn't 3-A

• Rebuttal: This is false. As the quote provided above shows, the Minus Energy Power Ball doesn't expand the more worlds it spreads to; all the negative energy corroding the universe comes from the exact same source, which is so full to the brim with that energy that it overflows and releases some pockets of negative energy to space.

@fearreaperredux: How big are the suns that surround the Kai Planet?

This thread is a product of SAO wanking gone rampant

Read my comment above.

I'm not reading all that just give me something to work with then I'll read your calculations.

@seitaer: plus Goku can manipulate heat.

Kirito blitzes and one shots

Star King Kirito was doing feats similar to SSJG Goku and unlike Goku, has actual MFTL feats and scailing that aren’t filler or contradicted later.