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#1 Edited by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2

Location: Grand Central Station

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Objective: Your team's mothebox (not a useable piece of equipment) will open another boomtube in three hours to your next location, you must be ready to leave in the time limit. Your objective for this round is simple: Be the last team standing.

Starting Distance: 150 ft.

Time Limit: 3 hours (because this is a three way debate I'm going to extend the clock an additional 2 hours for a total of 5 hours)

Rules: Winner by K.O, Death or Incap.

As was the case in the previous round you may select one team perk and two individual perks.

Team Perks

Prep Time: Gives your team three hours to make a plan and explore the battlefield beforehand, the battlefield cannot be altered and no additional gear or knowledge can be gained.

Full Knowledge: You're granted full knowledge of your opponents gear, powers, weaknesses etc.

Telepathic Team Link: Your team is linked together telepathically.

Bloodlusted: Your team will kill without hesitation or remorse, their mental states and emotional states remain in character.

The Goodie Bag: Grants each of your team members: A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, gas masks, grenades,(1 flash bang, 1 smoke, 1 teargas) and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision)

Why can’t we be friends? : Your team all cooperates and will work together as if all existing personality clashes/enmity and bad blood didn’t exist.

Give me some Backup! : Grants your team complete control of an 4 man squad of S.H.I.E.L.D Agents outfitted in Civil War style Cape-Killer armor (includes gas masks, hover discs, com units, tranquilizer darts and paralyzer lasers)

Individual Perks

Power Amp: Raises one of your character's strength by 5 tons

Defense Amp: Adds a full body coating of vibranium mesh weave armor to your character’s costume/outfit.

Speed Amp: Raises your characters reflexes by Batman levels.

Gear up: One member of your team can add a piece of non-standard gear to their arsenal provided the equipment doesn't put them over the tournament levels

Blades and bullets: You may turn your character’s bullets/thrown weapons/arrows into adamantium. Or your character’s hand held weapon can be transformed into an Adamantium version of itself.

Ninja: Completely silence’s your character’s movement, heart beat and breathing (any other noise they make can be heard normally)

Team @dredeuced

Isaac Netero (no suicide nuke);

TUNED Alita (No orbital death laser);

Mr. Terrific (New-52);

Blink (AoA).

Reward:Enhanced Version of : I Love Perks! selected via The Gambler. You may select 4 additional individual perks you may stack these or distribute them among your team.

Team @mr_ingenuity

New 52 Static Shock

Penance aka Robert Baldwin, Speed-ball

The Hood Parker Robin

Horohoro

Reward: A wrist mounted gun with two S.P.I.N Tech Adamantium tipped darts (muzzle velocity 2,500 fps)

Team @floopay

Jarlaxle Baenre (No Ring of Three Wishes) (Sellsword Trilogy)

Sesshomaru (Inuyasha) (Full Feats, has first sword, and tessaiga) (Manga Version)

Seras Victoria (Hellsing, Post-Blood Drinking)

Ogami Rei (Code: Breaker) (Katana)

Reward: Gene Starwind's Caster: (one black hole shell)- produces a miniature black hole ( 10 foot diameter, 5 second duration), the black hole can absorb 1 character maximum, they are considered BFR’d (There is no life drain penalty).

Good Luck!

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#2 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced Ha! I was hoping to face you with my D&D character! Mwahahahahaha.

@mr_ingenuity Lets do this!

Team Perk: Why can't we be friends? (Perfect Teamwork)

Individual Perk 1: Jarlaxle - Blades and Bullets

Individual Perk 2: Pending

@sovereign91001

For the Gear Up Perk, does it have to be something they have used, or can it just be something they have access to, regardless of whether or not they've used it?

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#4 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh man this will be good.

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#5 Edited by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: something they've used, they need to have a feat/showing with the item.

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#6 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay@mr_ingenuity

Team Perk:

Full Knowledge

Individual perks:

Vibranium Suit on Blink, Terrific, Netero and Alita

Batman Reflex Increase on Blink

Gear Up: Alita's plasma jets from her Imaginos bodies

Curse your bones, Floopay.

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#7 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: After you've pick your last perk.

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#8 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: @mr_ingenuity: @dredeuced:

Alright, after talking it over with Sovereign91001.

I choose to use the Gear Up! Perk to give Jarlaxle another Ring of Dimension Door. This will give him two rings of Dimension Door.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#9 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15140 posts) - - Show Bio

this is gonna be a good match up all 3 great comicviners

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#10 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay@mr_ingenuity

Ok, I'll start off with a small maneuver before we get into the main brawl. With full knowledge, my team should be well aware of Sesshomaru's flightiness that makes him deal with his closest targets due to arrogance. Terrific will count on that and order Blink to, as soon as the fight starts, teleport my team to one of the separate rooms in the building, off to the side -- Alita will drop a bunch of probe lice during this. Probe lice are basically incredibly small scouting drones:

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She'll send dozens of them out to scurry every which way in the room -- I presume your teams will be too preoccupied to start hunting them down so it should be fair for them to keep me informed on what goes on.

Just in case you guys decide to turn and try to stop my team from teleporting away with some ranged attacks, I'll have Netero use his Hyakushiki Kannon's arms to block any attack angles while we teleport and for Terrific to use a forcefield:

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For reference, Isaac's construct is enormous and the arms should be capable of defending any direct attacks for a couple of seconds:

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While I doubt such tactics could bear the brunt of either team attacking at full force for sustained time, this is just to buy them enough time to teleport away and for Alita to get her drones down, so it should suffice.

Mind you, my team is NOT running away from the fight -- that'd be kind of cheesey and lame and I don't want to debate that way. They're teleporting away to get a minute's reprieve, scope out how your team's engage each other, come up with a brief plan (think of it as micro preptime) then come in and counter. I don't expect to cheese it and say your teams kill each other and I clean up the mess, I'm just saying your teams should probably both make their first moves against each other and then then my team comes in thanks to teleportation. Besides, Alita's kind of hot headed so she'll want to get back to the fight before all the fighting's done(though I can show that it's not beyond her character to hide out from superior forces to judge her situation). :P

Edit: Oh, I will make a small note that since my team and, therefore, Blink are fully aware of Jarlaxe's gear, Blink will consciously teleport us far enough through the building so Jarlaxe's dimension doors, which have limited range, won't be able to follow. It's a pretty enormous building and, as I'm aware, Jarlaxe's rings are around 400ft + some amount for his level in range so this shouldn't be a huge issue. Don't want Floopay crashing my little pow wow. :P

During the short reprieve, I'll have Mr. Terrific give everyone a T-Mask with 3 of his six spare spheres, as shown here:

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This will give my team a few advantages -- such as the ability to communicate and invisibility to technology, as well as multiple fields of vision beyond visible light (though, frankly, Netero and Alita don't need that part). He'll then patch the T-Sphere's HUD into Alita's Tiphares link that connects her drones like Gabriel or her Probe Lice, so that everyone can be updated on traps (probe lice specialize in uncovering traps) and enemy position so that Alita won't have to fill everyone in constantly and they can just have the information on hand. It will also allow Alita to combat any hacking anyone may attempt on Mr. Terrific's systems as she's basically the best anti-hacker around.

From then my team will probably spend a minute or two going over their full knowledge and determining basic counters to your team, especially your extra perks -- since I don't want anyone on my team getting depowered by S.P.I.N or destroyed by a black hole gun.

Blink will be assigned to dealing with and countering projectiles. With Batman's reflexes added on top of her own she should be able to react to stuff like bullets, grenades, S.P.I.N darts or the gravity caster with her teleportation, shooting them back at your team or the other team kind of like she did with Hyperion's heat vision:

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She's effectively my anti range character with the Batman reflex addition.

Alita's job will be to deal with heat, cold, sound, and electric/electromagnetic abilities thanks to her gear'd up plasma jets. She's shown the ability to counter kinetic blasts from Toji (capable of destroying large boulders and tearing through steel) with them:

Handy, aren't they?

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She can also use them to counter electromagnetic attacks. Toji's combat style is actually called Hyper Electromagnetic Kung Fu and he uses EM control to increase his attack and defense power, but Alita's jets have broken through his EM shield and could presumably counter electric attacks from the likes of Static or Jarlaxe's lightning wands:

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The second panel shows that she's using Plasma to dispel the EM shield that Toji is capable of creating, ala:

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Toji's shield was capable of taking an attack from Anomaly's Libido Cannon (yes, it is as raunchy as it sounds) and Alita over powered them pretty quickly. An explanation as to why her plasma abilities interact so favorably with EM abilities is probably because it's sort of an EM ability itself (Note, this scan is read left to right. This was the first introduction of her plasma abilities before the creator swapped publishers who forced him to change to the right to left style):

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Also, I imagine 15,000 degrees centigrade should PROBABLY negatively affect Horohoro's ice powers, but I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with Shaman King -- let me know Mr_Ingenuity whether or not it is vulnerable to high temperatures since Alita does have full knowledge.

Mr. Terrific doesn't particularly counter any direct abilities I can think of, aside from perhaps The Hood's invisibility and Jarlaxe's light displacement with the T-masks he's provided (Assuming they only bend visible light and not Gamma, X-Ray, or IR). That said, he does provide great fire support with his remaining spheres and can make forcefields, gravity wells, electric shocks, photon blasts and force blasts, so he'll bring a great deal of fire power and defense when my team ports back in.

Netero's a bit more...straight forward. While his Nen provides himself many great abilities, such as improved durability, speed, and strength; the ability to sense living beings, super enhanced eye sight and a ton of other great tools, his main job is to smash the hell out of your team with Hyakushiki Kannon and possibly provide defense for the less physically superhuman members of my team like Blink and Terrific -- though Terrific can fly and dodge with the best of them and getting at Blink will be difficult when you combine Batman Reflexes + teleportation + vibranium mesh.

So basically my plan is to come up with a plan, lol. I've more or less set the stage for your two teams to interact before my team comes back to crash the party so things don't get too boring.

edit: oh, just to cover my bases, Netero will have his En activated in a 50 meter radius around him while my team plans so there won't be any sneaky business of someone catching my team unawares while they plan.

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#11 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @mr_ingenuity

I love that openning!

Now then, remember, no more bad blood between my team, and they will cooperate.

Jarlaxle is the team leader. Why? Because he speaks all languages, he's the oldest, he has the most experience, and is especially the most experienced in this type of warfare. Jarlaxle does not expect the team to fight for him, he doesn't expect them to fight for the team. He expects them to fight for themselves, and for their own survival. Because of this, I believe he is the only one who can rally and coordinate my team.

This should hold Sesshomaru at bay, which won't be hard. As arrogant and belittling as he is, he doesn't really have any reason to confront your team unless he has to. He views humans as below him, and therefore not worthy of his time. No human has actually EVER damaged him.

Opening Strategy

You will open up hard and heavy. And realistically that's probably the best idea. With Isaac's construct, your team will likely be the one to target. Not because yours is the most powerful, but if there was ever a thing to draw fire from multiple teams it would be an enormous construct that likely takes up the entire corridor!

However, Jarlaxle is very skilled in this type of combat. In fact, he's spent the better part of his life doing so. In a society of matriarchs, Jarlaxle stood as a leader, and a cornerstone member of their society. It's not a small task, or an easy feat.

Drizzt about Jarlaxle:

Right now I'm just trying to establish why I think Jarlaxle will take the route I'm going to say he takes. As you can see he is a leader among leaders, and an expert at what he does.

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Jarlaxle's Tactics

Jarlaxle has no desire to fight your teams head on. He knows how to play this game and you've already played your hand. So he'll take a tactic every drow of every house knows well. A tactic used for centuries or even millenniums by his people.

He's going to retreat. You've already played your hand and attacked on all fronts. Obviously Mr_Ingenuity will be forced to confront your team, and you will charge directly towards my team as well. My team can likely stand the head to head confrontation, and your team looks to at least match mine in speed. However, that won't be a problem.

Jarlaxle will conjure a 20 foot globe of darkness in the area while simultaneously calling a wand to his hand. This will blind anyone from knowing what's coming next.

Wall of Stone

Here he uses a wand to conjure a wall of stone. It doesn't last long, I know, but there is an army of gargoyles assaulting it, and a several thousand pound golem battering against it. For it to last 10 seconds under that kind of stress, especially with a lich of all things casting on it as well, is nothing short of impressive.

This will extend from wall to wall and up to the ceiling

Wall of stone.

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Wall of stone

So what am I doing?

Simple, my team is going to retreat. Jarlaxle conjures a globe of darkness and brings a wand to his hand simultaneously. Both are done with nothing more than a thought. The globe has a 20 foot radius (so 40 feet across in diameter) and the Wall of stone can extend hundreds of feet in either direction if it has too. It was used here to close off an entire corridor.

Jarlaxle conjures the wall, and knowing he doesn't likely have much time to waste, my team will retreat through the nearest tunnel and take a round about route back to the battlefield.

Seras will take Ogami, and Jarlaxle will be taken by Sesshomaru.

Sesshomaru doesn't seem like the carrying type, I know that. But, he sure as heck can hold onto a piece of rope. Jarlaxle can instantly call fort a piece of string that can elongate to over a hundred feet in length. He'll only need 5-10 feet. Sesshomaru just has to hold onto that as Seras and him fly off.

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My team runs.

Like I said, this tactic is something well known to the drow, it's something he could easily come up with on the fly.

They take the nearest hallway and run. Jarlaxle only stops for half a second to set up his Dragon Statuette.

What does this do?

Well, it calls for the breath weapon of the chosen chromatic dragon. It has been used for Blue and Red dragons thus far, but it was stated on page that it can do any chromatic dragon. When the next person steps under this statuette, it will blast the chosen weapon.

He will likely choose Black, it is the most effective in this type of area. This will blast anyone who comes underneath, and it will continue to blast as more keep coming. Black dragons spew acid which melts stone, bone, and metal with ease.

Dragon Statuette

There are 3 scans here of the dragon statuette, and the fourth is actually of a Black Dragon's breath melting a small squadron of undead soldiers with metal armor and equipment. I can provide more on a Black Dragon's breath as well. Additionally, as you can see Jarlaxle can meld into stone (not relevent for the strategy, but it's in the scan).

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What's the ultimate goal here?

Well, between a globe of complete darkness, a wall of stone, and a dragon statuette that will stop all pursuers, Dredeuce's team cannot really pursue mine.

Why? Because he's already begun his attack, and likely so will Mr_Ingenuity. If either of you break off from fighting each other to pursue my team, it will only end in the other one's team taking the advantage over yours and quickly ending your team. You can't afford to pursue me.

My team's goal is to stick together. They don't want to break up or move away because it keeps them at a disadvantage the further they get from one another. By exiting it allows them to pool their resources and come back stronger.

Sesshomaru

Sesshomaru can track what is transpiring between your teams and can track their location. Just from smell alone (he already knows your smells, he was in the same room as your teams).

Sesshomaru acquires Goshinki's head

Here, Sesshomaru is able to tell everything that happened in the fight between Inuyasha and Goshinki, days after the fact by mere smell alone.

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Other Stuff

Seras will be ready to fire on anyone who enters, as will Jarlaxle.

However, Jarlaxle will pass his second Ring of Dimension Door to Ogami and give him the rundown on how it works (should take all of 15 seconds, it's activated with a thought).

Once one of your teams retreats or once your teams are done fighting, my team will either take the defensive route and only attempt to take on the team most injured or the most split up (if one of your teams retreats), or will descend upon the last team remaining.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#12 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Wait, what? I didn't attack anyone, most certainly not all out. I teleported away while defending my team.

Netero's construct isn't even visible until he forms it from his Nen -- he'd create two giant hands to defend then they'd all disappear in the first second of the fight. After the first second of the fight the only people in the room are your two teams. I specifically said I was waiting for your two teams to interact before I attack, so I'm absolutely not attacking first and foremost. Definitely not gonna let you try to pull the "let two teams fight then pick off the stragglers" maneuver that easily. My entire goal was specifically to see how your teams fight before I come into the fight. I was basically trying to make it easier to interact in the debate. If both of our teams instantly leave the battlefield then NO ONE is fighting.

All of my stuff was me explaining my team coming up with a plan to counter your abilities, not that I was actively attacking. You might want to reread it. My team can see into the main room thanks to the probe lice, so that means I'd be well aware of your team ditching the battle -- which means my plans don't go through because Sesshomaru defied expectation and didn't attack the nearest opponents.

Also, I asked @sovereign91001 how far I could go with Blink's teleportation and he stated I could not leave the building, which is why I said a separate room -- I was originally gonna teleport outside so I could draw you guys into Gabriel's field of view, but that's not available. I'm not sure what you meant by tunnels since you'd have to stay in the building -- I guess you meant the giant openings people walk through, but those aren't really tunnels in the grand central station.

Assuming you still go with your plan, that just means our teams are scurrying through the building while Mr_I's is in the main room. I think the most likely scenario is that, while retreating, your team actually runs into mine since we teleported randomly to another part of the building, but that should give me the edge since I did state that Netero is using his En to detect anyone who comes near us.

edit-- also, I question Sesshomaru's ability to match smells to faces if your team's FIRST course of action is ditching the scene. It takes time for air to flow and smells to reach him, he wouldn't automatically know anyone's scent (Especially in a building that has literally MILLIONS of people travel through it a month) and be able to match it to their faces. While that scan is impressive, it's of Sesshomaru determining smells that'd been there for ages and of someone whose scent he's obviously very familiar with in Inuyasha.

Even so, Terrific can put up a forcefield to prevent airflow while my team discusses thanks to full knowledge, if I seriously DO need to counter it.

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#13 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

A tunnel just refers to a passage through somewhere. Whether it's a staircase, a hallway, or whatever, my team will be fleeing.

My team will be setting up in a separate room. Using Jarlaxle's portable hole, they can actually run through walls of the building until they are away from both teams.

From there they set up and distribute items.

Again, Ring of Dimension Door will go to Ogami, and Jarlaxle will keep his as well (I got an extra because of the perk).

Dimension Door Range:

400 feet is wrong, from all points of view. First of all, these books were written in second edition, which is when Dimension Door had a range of 100 yards + 30 per level of the caster. In 3.5 it was decreased to 400 feet + 40 feet per level of the caster. And the level of the caster is not the level of Jarlaxle, it's the level of the person who crafted the item. Considering it's a 4th level spell, that would make the caster a minimum of 7th level which would give it a minimum range of 310 yards, or 930 feet (100yrd+30yrd*7=310yrd*3=930ft).

However, that's a game mechanic.

In his fight with a Red Great Wyrm he was able to teleport from one side of the room, where he was near the wall as the dragon plummeted into the wall behind him when he attacked, all the way to the other side of the room near the exit. Considering this thing is a minimum of 300 feet long, I would say he teleported way over 400 feet. Remember, this thing sleeps and is able to comfortably move around in this room, I can't imagine I would be comfortable moving around in a room that was snug against my body, which means he was probably teleporting at least 600 feet or better with Dimension Door.

Jarlaxle vs Hephaestus


Dimension Door on two occasions to teleport from one end of the thing to the other, from one side of the room to the other.

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Valas Hune, Dimension Door

Not Jarlaxle, but under employment of Jarlaxle. He has a trinket that allows him to Dimension Door, and he's able to cross halfway across the Underdark in a single day. Considering he can only dimension door once per day, that means it had to have taken him pretty far.

He also uses it to get from one part of a city, to a barracks and on the shoulder of a Stone Giant to hack away at it's jugular.

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There are more feats for it, but yes he can cover a huge area.

Considering the main Grand Central Building is only like 1,400 feet wide from one end to the other, I wouldn't say your team is exactly "Safe" from Dimension Door.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#14 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

You'd have to waste time locating my team and dimension dooring multiple people ( believe in your other thread you said there's a limit of two, so he'd also have to divy up his Gear'd up one to someone else to take the other half of your team) and, frankly, Blink could just teleport them again. It's not like she's on a limited supply. I'm getting my brief planning session. :P

I also take issue with the "You've shown your hand!" comment from your first post. SOMEONE in this fight had to make the opening post, I'll hardly say it should come as a disadvantage that I did it, especially with how cautiously I worded it. Like I said, as it is, the fight starts with both of us ditching Ingenuity's team in the main room to go sleuthing around in the corridors of the station.

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#15 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

You'd have to waste time locating my team and dimension dooring multiple people ( believe in your other thread you said there's a limit of two, so he'd also have to divy up his Gear'd up one to someone else to take the other half of your team) and, frankly, Blink could just teleport them again. It's not like she's on a limited supply. I'm getting my brief planning session. :P

I also take issue with the "You've shown your hand!" comment from your first post. SOMEONE in this fight had to make the opening post, I'll hardly say it should come as a disadvantage that I did it, especially with how cautiously I worded it. Like I said, as it is, the fight starts with both of us ditching Ingenuity's team in the main room to go sleuthing around in the corridors of the station.

I have two people with Rings of Dimension Door, and I have 4 party members.

Also, my team won't be seeking yours out, my team will be taking the side lines. I planned on using that tactic since I found out this is a threeway battle.

Loading Video...

I'll post more later.

But my team plans on taking full advantage of planning, in detail, how my team plans on doing this.

I'll wait for Mr_Ingenuity to post before I say anything else.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#16 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning towards Floopay with Dredeuced right behind him. This is a really heated debate. Good job on the both of you!

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#17 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Nah ah, you have one person with two rings. Like I said, you'd have to divy it up, decide who goes with which ring holder, make sure the second ringholder knows how to use it, and then make sure you all four teleport to the same place (I doubt everyone has Jarlaxe's ability to see through stone) if you wanted to follow my team with teleportation. I don't believe it's QUITE as simple as you make it. Blink's powers are pretty straightforward and cut through any of that hassle.

I don't understand what you mean by side lines. There's only so much space in the building and you have to stay inside it. I imagine if you're running away from the main area then, unless you take up camp in a specific room like I am, you'd eventually run into my team or atleast come within 50m of Netero which would tip off his En.

But yeah, I suppose it's up to Mr_Ingenuity to react to both of our teams apparently turning tail and running at the mere sight of his team, lol.

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#18 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Nah ah, you have one person with two rings. Like I said, you'd have to divy it up, decide who goes with which ring holder, make sure the second ringholder knows how to use it, and then make sure you all four teleport to the same place (I doubt everyone has Jarlaxe's ability to see through stone) if you wanted to follow my team with teleportation. I don't believe it's QUITE as simple as you make it. Blink's powers are pretty straightforward and cut through any of that hassle.

I don't understand what you mean by side lines. There's only so much space in the building and you have to stay inside it. I imagine if you're running away from the main area then, unless you take up camp in a specific room like I am, you'd eventually run into my team or atleast come within 50m of Netero which would tip off his En.

But yeah, I suppose it's up to Mr_Ingenuity to react to both of our teams apparently turning tail and running at the mere sight of his team, lol.

Actually, you make a good point.

The second ring goes to Sesshomaru, not Ogami.

And no, using the ring is not hard. You think about where you want to go with it, and a door appears in front of you. Ready to transport you to the location you desire.

Thanks for reaidng,

Floopay

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#19 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Well, technically the second ring goes to Jarlaxe since it's his perk(unless I can somehow magically install Alita's plasma gear onto Blink. YES PLEASE lol). He'd still have to give it to Sesh and tell him "Just think about where you want to go and it'll take you there," since Sesh has never used one before -- though I'm skeptical if that's how it truly works (would you need to know where you're going? or could you just think "Take us to Dredeuced's team" and it'd automatically work?). This stuff does take a bit of time, though I suppose you did create some leeway by retreating and sort of sealing off the area behind you.

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#20 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Well, technically the second ring goes to Jarlaxe since it's his perk(unless I can somehow magically install Alita's plasma gear onto Blink. YES PLEASE lol). He'd still have to give it to Sesh and tell him "Just think about where you want to go and it'll take you there," since Sesh has never used one before -- though I'm skeptical if that's how it truly works (would you need to know where you're going? or could you just think "Take us to Dredeuced's team" and it'd automatically work?). This stuff does take a bit of time, though I suppose you did create some leeway by retreating and sort of sealing off the area behind you.

Did you read my statements?

My plan is to run away, confer in a small area, and then hand out the ring, and tell him how to use it.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#21 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Yes. You'll notice the last sentence of the very post you quoted specifically has me mentioning you getting some time for yourself by retreating. I was pointing out that you shouldn't be able to instantly follow my team with Dimension Door because doing those things takes time, so my own brief planning session should go uninterrupted. Your phrasing just wasn't exact so I scrutinized it a wee bit. :P

I mainly questioned the actual way the Dimension Door works -- whether it's based purely on desire like you said or if it is based on knowledge of where you're going.

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#22 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Yes. You'll notice the last sentence of the very post you quoted specifically has me mentioning you getting some time for yourself by retreating. I was pointing out that you shouldn't be able to instantly follow my team with Dimension Door because doing those things takes time, so my own brief planning session should go uninterrupted. Your phrasing just wasn't exact so I scrutinized it a wee bit. :P

I mainly questioned the actual way the Dimension Door works -- whether it's based purely on desire like you said or if it is based on knowledge of where you're going.

It has safeguards in case you teleport into an object so it will autmoatically move you outside of the object. So no, you don't need to know where you're going.

Valas at one point uses it to get outside of a tavern in a town he's unfamiliar with. I'll dig up the scans if you'd like.

You teleport to a desired location, if you end up teleporting into a solid object it will look for a place to teleport you outside of that object. You don't have to envision the location, or know where it is, you can actually dimension door randomly if you need to.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#23 Posted by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Fair enough, though I'd be more accepting if it let you teleport to a person, considering your team shouldn't really know mine's location

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#24 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Fair enough, though I'd be more accepting if it let you teleport to a person, considering your team shouldn't really know mine's location

Would you like more scans on Sesshomaru's sense of smell? Because he can pinpoint Inuyasha's locations from over a mile away... and track Rin haflway across a mountain range with no issues. Grand Central Station is a bit smaller than that...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#25 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@dredeuced said:

@floopay: Fair enough, though I'd be more accepting if it let you teleport to a person, considering your team shouldn't really know mine's location

Would you like more scans on Sesshomaru's sense of smell? Because he can pinpoint Inuyasha's locations from over a mile away... and track Rin haflway across a mountain range with no issues. Grand Central Station is a bit smaller than that...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I've already addressed the smell argument. It takes time for smell to travel (bloodhounds can track smells from miles away, the smells don't "move" away as the person moves so distance isn't a thing so much as time) and Terrific can prevent air flow if necessary. Finally I don't think sesshomaru would know my team's smell if your very first move is running away from everyone before the air can even circulate over to your team for Sesshomaru to get a smell -- i'm sure your team runs faster than the speed of stink!

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#26 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@dredeuced said:

@floopay: Fair enough, though I'd be more accepting if it let you teleport to a person, considering your team shouldn't really know mine's location

Would you like more scans on Sesshomaru's sense of smell? Because he can pinpoint Inuyasha's locations from over a mile away... and track Rin haflway across a mountain range with no issues. Grand Central Station is a bit smaller than that...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I've already addressed the smell argument. It takes time for smell to travel (bloodhounds can track smells from miles away, the smells don't "move" away as the person moves so distance isn't a thing so much as time) and Terrific can prevent air flow if necessary. Finally I don't think sesshomaru would know my team's smell if your very first move is running away from everyone before the air can even circulate over to your team for Sesshomaru to get a smell -- i'm sure your team runs faster than the speed of stink!

That depends on the sensitivity of a person's smell.

Sesshomaru was able to track Inuyasha with little issue from miles away.

He should be able to pretty much pick up your teams scent the moment the battle starts. Your team is in the same room as him, not miles away. If we wanna go by logic, it would realistically take no more than a single particle for him to pick up on a scent.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#27 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: You seriously just ignored what I said. I specifically point out that it's not a matter of distance as long as you're just smelling where someone has travelled -- real life animals can do that. If your team's first move is literally to run away then it's completely unreasonable to think that Sesshomaru ever got a whiff because he'd be moving faster than the air could carry the particles that make up the smells to his nose -- smells that he's ALSO unfamiliar with(how would he know they're my team's instead of Mr_I's? they're all in the same room).

Honestly it's all kind of moot unless you actually plan to teleport on top of my team but my point is that it's not a matter of distance, but speed.

edit-- I mean I guess you could argue his nose is magical because he's a demon or something, kind of like how Superman can magically hear things further away than sound can travel. Who knows! lol

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#28 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: @dredeuced:

D*mn it you two so many post just to find a way to keep the distance between teams. :P

Now if you don't mind I'll continue with my strategy.

Opening Strategy

Unlike your teams my team will not have a leader for the simple fact it halts the flow of information. So my team will be free to share info & individually act on it. Don’t get me wrong my team is still a team, they will cover each other’s back, but they won’t decide the use of each other’s abilities.

Also unlike your teams mine will keep attacking, while standing their ground.

Horohoro

Answering dredeuced’s question. Yes heat will melt his ice & sufficient strength will break it even with the perks of being spirally/magically created. But I doubt your team can stop him from flash freezing water vapor to create ice since no team can eliminate all sources of water.

The instant the fight starts Horohoro will be using fumon tonkou (brief explanation blow) a move reading technique. This will give Horohoro insight to enemies’ basic team strategy (when & where they will attack)

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/200/02.jpg

Horohoro will instantly know both teams have no intention of attacking and since it’s not fight then it’s flight. Horohoro will share this info only takes half a second with the rest of my team..

Horohoro will go into action attacking dredeuced team by flash freezing them before they teleport.

The nature of Horohoro’s spirit energy (universe specific furyoku) is ice. Horohoro simply has to concentrate his spirit energy at a certain point & his range being dozens of meters. I’m quite sure none of your team is able to negate his spirit energy or stop him from freezing the water inside their bodies.

Concentrates his full power to create a mini avalanche covering a city block

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003279-59_36_59__shaman+king+v05+c036+025.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003280-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+027.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003282-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+030.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003285-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+039.jpg

Here is what flash freezing will do to the human body

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/254/07.jpg

Now apply that to some ones whole body.

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/255/07.jpg

I don’t know how this will affect Alita, I’m inclining to say this should kill Blink, but I know this will kill Mr. Terrific & Isaac.

From where I’m standing your team should be cut down to 1/4

Fumon Tonkou using this spell enables one to read the flow of furyoku and determine its course. Effective use can render most magical attacks ineffective and one can predict the movements of an opponent.

Furyoku term used to determine the measure of sixth sense a person possesses. This can be increased by having a near-death experience. More furyoku means more control over one's spirit.

If you are not quite sure what this gibberish is trying to tell you I have scans. May or may not help.

Penance

Penance will aim in the opposite direction of Horohoro an attack Floopay’s team.

Know I understand his team will simply run through the build to get away & possibility use Rings of Dimension Door but I believe that’s for another purposes.

Penance will try to arbitrate Floopay’s team while their backs are turned, rules are last team standing.

Now Penances uses his powers in two ways.

Focused kinetic blasts

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2896340-penance_relentless__04_021.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2896021-thunderbolts_123_012.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895172-thunderbolts__111_16.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895181-home_front_04_004.jpg

Or AOE for wide spread destruction

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2896341-penance_relentless__04_022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895178-home_front_03_011.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2896337-penance_relentless__01_023.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2896334-penance_relentless__01_022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3029939-nova+3+08.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3029940-nova+3+09.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3029941-nova+3+010.jpg

But since Penance is in a building comprised of teammate and enemies. He will go for a third way & focus enough energy to wipe out that section of the building without leveling the whole place.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895175-thunderbolts__121_08.jpg

Static Shock

Static will be simple and spam electricity in blood lust. The electricity won’t be for the sole purpose of destruction but S&D (search & destroy), an instant kill for any one it hit. Also my team will be standing their ground so none of them will be hit plus Static has fine-tune accuracy.

First scan gives magnitude, accuracy & range of the power Statics unleashed (morals on).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3005726-the+savage+hawkman+7+06.jpg

While the second scan gives Hackman’s thoughts on the matter (well it is his comic), he notes that Static clears the bridge form one side. And from how I see it Static couldn’t even see what he was doing, explains his surprise to Hawkman (also on the bridge with nervous system intact).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3005727-the+savage+hawkman+7+07.jpg

Final scan is confirmation stating more than simple electrocution.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3005728-the+savage+hawkman+7+08.jpg

Electron Shock

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3014022-static+shock+7+018.jpg

Hood

Hood will unload his guns on floopay’s team with Penance’s powers adding to Hood’s adamantium bullets momentum. Hoods bullets alone are able to blow chunks out of buildings leveling them in minutes so any thing hit will be gone.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2892810-new_avengers_52_07_08.jpg

Hood will also be using demonic empower eye sight to see are they still there & who is still alive. So they won’t have to stop unloading & check

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895502-2892844-hood_power_unholy_sight___3_.jpg

Countermeasure

Now let's say for a second both teams make good on their escape, then there would be no team from stopping mine from blast, freezing & electrocuting their positions bring the place down around them. Hood, Horohoro & Static have ways of seeing the teams and attacking accordingly. No team can leave the building so both will inevitably teleport back to the main room where my team will be waiting. And let us not forget randomly teleporting could put both teams in the same location.

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#30 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Flaws

My team leader is Jarlaxle, and he is the one deciding how my team will act. So Horhoro will not be able to read what his intended actions are.

Proof is here:

The eyepatch, it denies entrance to his mind by wizard, priest, or psionicists.

That is magical, spiritual, or psionic means that it denies entrance from.

It also allows him to see through walls, doors, and even through a person's body. Quite simply, he'll know your team is coming, even if they plan on coming through a wall.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Over and above this my team will be blanketed in darkness thanks to Jarlaxle's globe of invulnerability, and an instant after that there will be a stone wall between my team and yours.

Against Penance:

As stated, it will take at least 0.5-1 second for your team to even coordinate that @dredeuced's team plans on fleeing, and they have no idea of my team's intent, because the only one coordinating is Jarlaxle, who is immune to telepathic intrusion (as is Sesshomaru, and Seras Victoria).

So about 2 seconds into the battle (I think that's a fair amount of time to assume), Penance charges and might open up a kinetic blast. Even if we assume that even though your team doesn't know my team's strategy, Penance charges my team anyway, whatever, who am I to judge?

There is still a stone wall (a magical one, that has withstood blows from a small army of gargoyles, a lich, and a several thousand pound golem for a few seconds) blocking my team's escape. Over and above this there is a globe of darkness across where my team was, so your team has no idea if my team is there, or if my team has moved.

All and all, between determining my team's location, destroying that wall, and determining if my team is still there will take your team at least a good 10 seconds or better. My team will be LONG gone by then.

Against Static Shock and Penance

Sesshomaru will be well aware of what's going on, when my team stops, then Ogami can simply stop any debris from falling on my team by incinerating it, and can protect my team from attacks via Belphegor.

This will stop any and all power use against my team when used.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11Gallery image 12Gallery image 13

Ogami catches part of an overpass, holds onto it briefly, then incinerates it.

This will stop any fallen debris (not that I need him to, Seras and Sesshomaru can do the same thing to a degree).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Teleporting

Who says my team is teleporting away? I have only made the claim thus far my team HAS a means of teleportation.

My team can just run, nobody is fast enough to catch them when they get in full motion....

My team can run through walls if needed, so no need to even search for doorways and etc.

Here's him using his globe of darkness, and him using his portable hole against Hephaestus (not the god, it's a Great Red Wyrm with the same name).

For good measure, there is another instance of him using the portable hole in there, except this time it's also him using his belt's magical property, which turns into a snake for climbing.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#31 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Opening Strategy

Unlike your teams my team will not have a leader for the simple fact it halts the flow of information. So my team will be free to share info & individually act on it. Don’t get me wrong my team is still a team, they will cover each other’s back, but they won’t decide the use of each other’s abilities.

Also unlike your teams mine will keep attacking, while standing their ground.

Horohoro

Answering dredeuced’s question. Yes heat will melt his ice & sufficient strength will break it even with the perks of being spirally/magically created. But I doubt your team can stop him from flash freezing water vapor to create ice since no team can eliminate all sources of water.

The instant the fight starts Horohoro will be using fumon tonkou (brief explanation blow) a move reading technique. This will give Horohoro insight to enemies’ basic team strategy (when & where they will attack)

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/200/02.jpg

Horohoro will instantly know both teams have no intention of attacking and since it’s not fight then it’s flight. Horohoro will share this info only takes half a second with the rest of my team..

Horohoro will go into action attacking dredeuced team by flash freezing them before they teleport.

The nature of Horohoro’s spirit energy (universe specific furyoku) is ice. Horohoro simply has to concentrate his spirit energy at a certain point & his range being dozens of meters. I’m quite sure none of your team is able to negate his spirit energy or stop him from freezing the water inside their bodies.

Concentrates his full power to create a mini avalanche covering a city block

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003279-59_36_59__shaman+king+v05+c036+025.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003280-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+027.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003282-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+030.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003285-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+039.jpg

Here is what flash freezing will do to the human body

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/254/07.jpg

Now apply that to some ones whole body.

http://www.citymanga.com/files/images/shaman_king/255/07.jpg

I don’t know how this will affect Alita, I’m inclining to say this should kill Blink, but I know this will kill Mr. Terrific & Isaac.

From where I’m standing your team should be cut down to 1/4

There's a lot that's wrong with this and you even contradict yourself at one point.

For one, there's no reason to think Horohoro's freezing should penetrate the Forcefield I specifically made sure Terrific created before my team teleports. Secondly, there's no reason to think your blast gets past Netero's construct whom I also specifically said defended my team from attacks. Unless you can show Horohoro freezing people he can't see who are behind durable objects, I think your plan's entire premise is bunk.

Now onto why your plan's execution is bunk. Here's your own statement:

The nature of Horohoro’s spirit energy (universe specific furyoku) is ice. Horohoro simply has to concentrate his spirit energy at a certain point & his range being dozens of meters

None of your scans showed flash freezing from dozens of meters. A dozen meters is about 40 feet. We start 150 feet apart (presumably equidistant from each other in a triangle, more or less). You said "dozens of meters" -- that's pretty vague. 2 dozen meters? 3 dozen meters? It'd take 4 dozen meters just to reach my team, not to mention having to push through forcefields and super durable constructs.

Show me Horohoro flash freezing someone from 150 feet away. I want full scans of the build up, too, because you're making it sound like he's got Iceman level powers.

Now that premise and execution out of the way, let me bring up the fact that you said:

Yes heat will melt his ice & sufficient strength will break it even with the perks of being spirally/magically created.

So, you don't think Alita can counter his flash freezing with 15,000 centigrade plasma jets? What's to stop Horo from getting vaporized by that? Or at the very least having his attack completely mitigated while blink teleports away. I've got absurd heat powers, force fields, physical barriers, and I'm pretty sure superior reaction time on my side (Batman + Blink reflex, Alita has combat precognition, Netero has mach 9+ reaction speed, Terrific has top tier street level reactions) not to mention no one on my team is even directly exposed to the air his powers seem to circulate through thanks to 4 man full body vibranium clothing.

And, beyond all of that, Blink's teleportation is instant. My team teleports away as fast as she can react (reaction perk!), while your team is sharing information and using other techniqures. By the time Horohoro uses his precog ability, my team's already disappeared.

All in all, I think your statement that you kill 3 members of my team in the first second of the fight is downright false.

Everything else is either static (already addressed pre emptively) or this:

Now let's say for a second both teams make good on their escape, then there would be no team from stopping mine from blast, freezing & electrocuting their positions bring the place down around them. Hood, Horohoro & Static have ways of seeing the teams and attacking accordingly. No team can leave the building so both will inevitably teleport back to the main room where my team will be waiting. And let us not forget randomly teleporting could put both teams in the same location.

Why's that? I was waiting to see how Floopay's team and yours interact, but Floopay's first move was to move throughout the building, so that's hardly the case. From the temporary safety of my team's teleportation, I could have Blink and Alita teleport Fireflies directly into your character's mouths and have them go off. What's a firefly, you ask? Well:

No Caption Provided

About a five meter diameter plasma burst the burns for 5 seconds. Oh, and don't think Blink's not precise enough to teleport stuff into/onto someone's body directly, because:

No Caption Provided

And her teleporting doesn't even need line of sight to where she's teleporting things TO. All she needs is to be able to hit the fireflies with her daggers and they'd go. Heck she could teleport all of them at the same time:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So, how does your team survive multiple 5 meter plasma bursts erupting from inside their mouths? Remember, this isn't teledropping or dismembering, just teleporting an item to point blank range to a place my team can see thanks to the probe lice!

If your team sits there attacking then they're sitting ducks for this maneuver, too.

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#32 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @mr_ingenuity:

An interesting point I would like to bring up, something that @diredrill had brought up in our previous match.

According to @sovereign91001 your teams are assumed to work together to some degree, but teamwork is to be taken into account for. He also says your teams have general knowledge on each other and their power sets.

However, I would like to ask.

@dredeuced do Alita or Isaac speak English? Because half your team speaks english and I don't think either Blink or Mr. Terrific speak japanese.

@mr_ingenuity You say Usui will be relating our team's strategies to the rest of the team, but does he speak English, or does anyone on your team speak japanese?

I don't know if they do or do not, but it's a clear barrier that has to be overcome if it is there.

My team:

It's only fair I provide the same evidence, I understand that.

Jarlaxle:

Jarlaxle speaks any language thanks to the silver whistle he wears around his neck.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Ogami Rei:

Speaks Japanese and is fluent in a great many languages from being all over the world.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Sesshomaru

Only speaks Japanese

Seras Victoria

Only speaks English. Maybe German? I'd have to look into that.

More than likely: Jarlaxle will simply repeat his orders in both languages, or Ogami will translate for him (which seems like the most likely scenario).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#33 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Alita speaks English -- the scrapyard that Battle Angel Alita takes place in is actually central kansas and everyone in their universe are descendants of english speaking dudes who created a quantum computer and migrated to the rest of the solar system after a cataclysm that wrecked Earth. English is the predominant language in BAA and BAA:LO. I could prove this to you but I'd have to uh, basically post you 20-25 chapters to read of Battle Angel Alita Last Order, lol.

Isaac I'm not sure about. Here's the map of Hunter x Hunter verse:

No Caption Provided

As you can tell, it's an obvious offshoot of the real world with things moved around. There is no stated language in their universe, though. For instance, there's a town called Yorknew (New York) exactly where New York would be in the real world where Isaac can communicate with other people just fine if you pulled some equivalency there. You could also assume that, since it's a japanese manga, the predominant language would be Japanese.

That said, Terrific's masks could presumably work as translators if it was ruled that Isaac does speak Japanese. It's very simple technology and I'd imagine Terrific could be easily capable of it (he does translate russian at one point). Terrific also does know most major languages, if that makes it sound more reasonable. He's kind of the de facto leader just because he's the smartest guy around.

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#34 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @floopay:

It seems we have a lot of misunderstandings concerning my post. So I’ll try to be as thorough in my explanation as possible.

First off Floopay’s Question & rebuttal.

Horohoro is not japanese actually but I don't remember where he's from. But in any event the manga take place in America and Japan so english is assumed. Plus he was in an international tournament with friends from America, China, & Japan.

My team leader is Jarlaxle, and he is the one deciding how my team will act. So Horhoro will not be able to read what his intended actions are.

Proof is here:

The eyepatch, it denies entrance to his mind by wizard, priest, or psionicists.

That is magical, spiritual, or psionic means that it denies entrance from.

It also allows him to see through walls, doors, and even through a person's body. Quite simply, he'll know your team is coming, even if they plan on coming through a wall.

Over and above this my team will be blanketed in darkness thanks to Jarlaxle's globe of invulnerability, and an instant after that there will be a stone wall between my team and yours.

There is no telepathy involved no mind contact of any sort. As I specially state move reading to put it simple.

In Horohoro universe soul have a spiritual type energy called furyoku, since no one’s soul gives off this energy for debating purposes we use equivalency. Now I assume everyone on the battle field has souls meaning Horohoro should be able to sense & read their souls to execute Fumon Tonkou.

Here is another explanation of Fumon Tonkou.

Fumon Tonkou grants precognition over people with some sort of spiritual energy by reading the flow of the energy itself.

Shown that Fumon Tonkou allows furyoku energy sense once again through the use of equivalency soul sensing

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39536/15.jpg

Shown again as move reading

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39535/2.jpg

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39535/3.jpg

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39535/4.jpg

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39535/5.jpg

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/39535/6.jpg

Note both events take place before Horohoro learns & masters Fumon Tonkou.

Against Penance:

As stated, it will take at least 0.5-1 second for your team to even coordinate that @dredeuced's team plans on fleeing, and they have no idea of my team's intent, because the only one coordinating is Jarlaxle, who is immune to telepathic intrusion (as is Sesshomaru, and Seras Victoria).

I wonder how fast it take to say “they’re retreating”

And by this time I think the Fumon Tonkou should be settled, so things go as planned.

So about 2 seconds into the battle (I think that's a fair amount of time to assume), Penance charges and might open up a kinetic blast. Even if we assume that even though your team doesn't know my team's strategy, Penance charges my team anyway, whatever, who am I to judge?

Penance only know “they’re retreating” and will act accordingly & he has bullet timing reflexes. And no I state stand their ground basically saying no one is running off to do anything (& what for everyone has mid to long range powers)

There is still a stone wall (a magical one, that has withstood blows from a small army of gargoyles, a lich, and a several thousand pound golem for a few seconds) blocking my team's escape. Over and above this there is a globe of darkness across where my team was, so your team has no idea if my team is there, or if my team has moved.

All and all, between determining my team's location, destroying that wall, and determining if my team is still there will take your team at least a good 10 seconds or better. My team will be LONG gone by then.

You have completely left out Hood who by the way is aiding Penance (passing on knowledge).

Hood

Hood will unload his guns on Floopay’s team with Penance’s powers adding to Hood’s adamantium bullets momentum. Hoods bullets alone are able to blow chunks out of buildings, leveling them in minutes, so anything hit will be gone.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2892810-new_avengers_52_07_08.jpg

Hood will also be using demonic empower eye sight to see are they still there & who is still alive. So they won’t have to stop unloading & check

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895502-2892844-hood_power_unholy_sight___3_.jpg

.

Against Static Shock and Penance

Sesshomaru will be well aware of what's going on, when my team stops, then Ogami can simply stop any debris from falling on my team by incinerating it, and can protect my team from attacks via Belphegor.

This will stop any and all power use against my team when used.

Ogami catches part of an overpass, holds onto it briefly, then incinerates it.

This will stop any fallen debris (not that I need him to, Seras and Sesshomaru can do the same thing to a degree).

I’m going to point some things out.

I’ve shown scans of Penance hurting or stunning human level durability to Worthy & everything in-between. So even though I do not know your team’s durability I’m confident it will KO all of them. Even Ogami Rei due to the fact that Penance power is not sound based at all, what you have shown Ogami Rei to combat.

This is basic knowledge.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2895178-home_front_03_011.jpg

Also you made no counter to Statics electricity or its effects.

Teleporting

Who says my team is teleporting away? I have only made the claim thus far my team HAS a means of teleportation.

My team can just run, nobody is fast enough to catch them when they get in full motion....

Yes I was confused on that part but I have an understanding now.

& my team does not need to catch them simply blast away & I don’t see them dodging Penance attack.

My team can run through walls if needed, so no need to even search for doorways and etc.

Here's him using his globe of darkness, and him using his portable hole against Hephaestus (not the god, it's a Great Red Wyrm with the same name).

For good measure, there is another instance of him using the portable hole in there, except this time it's also him using his belt's magical property, which turns into a snake for climbing.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

The first scan is thumbnail size just so you know

The rest of it just re states how your team runs, but that doesn't convince me, my teams attack will have no effect.

Next up Dredeuced’s rebuttal.

There's a lot that's wrong with this and you even contradict yourself at one point.

For one, there's no reason to think Horohoro's freezing should penetrate the Forcefield I specifically made sure Terrific created before my team teleports. Secondly, there's no reason to think your blast gets past Netero's construct whom I also specifically said defended my team from attacks. Unless you can show Horohoro freezing people he can't see who are behind durable objects, I think your plan's entire premise is bunk.

Nope.

I own & have read all of New 52 Mr. Terrific’s solo series and there is nothing to suggest his shield can block energy magical in nature. Plus he only used shields once in issue 6 to no avail.

I also blitzed through a few hundred chapters of Hunter X Hunter Manga last month stopping on chapter 33. Netero’s emission type construct only blocked brute force attacks no energy or ice manipulation attacks.

Now onto why your plan's execution is bunk. Here's your own statement:

None of your scans showed flash freezing from dozens of meters. A dozen meters is about 40 feet. We start 150 feet apart (presumably equidistant from each other in a triangle, more or less). You said "dozens of meters" -- that's pretty vague. 2 dozen meters? 3 dozen meters? It'd take 4 dozen meters just to reach my team, not to mention having to push through forcefields and super durable constructs.

Show me Horohoro flash freezing someone from 150 feet away. I want full scans of the build up, too, because you're making it sound like he's got Iceman level powers.

Horohoro has never flash frozen someone from that far away that would be against his moral. But here he’s blood lust & I have given a clear picture of the range of his normal power set. Also attacks with Horohoro’s spirit energy don’t acknowledge physical durability. Can you negate the sprit energy? If the answer is yes then you won’t freeze. If the answer is no then you will be flash frozen. Simple as that. Even through rules of equivalency your team can’t combat magic.

Flash freezing making enough snow to cover a city block & shake the ground.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003285-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+039.jpg

Proof enough?

I’m not claiming Iceman level power because Iceman can literally exist as water vapor. Horohoro is clearly human with magic based Ice manipulation.

So, you don't think Alita can counter his flash freezing with 15,000 centigrade plasma jets? What's to stop Horo from getting vaporized by that? Or at the very least having his attack completely mitigated while blink teleports away.

No I don’t think Alita can counter his spirit energy which is how he freezes things. Horohoro’s vibranium suit will protect him.

I've got absurd heat powers, force fields, physical barriers, and I'm pretty sure superior reaction time on my side (Batman + Blink reflex, Alita has combat precognition, Netero has mach 9+ reaction speed, Terrific has top tier street level reactions) not to mention no one on my team is even directly exposed to the air his powers seem to circulate through thanks to 4 man full body vibranium clothing.

From what I’ve seen vibranium doesn’t protect against magical/spiritual based attacks, & reflexes won’t help against line of sight attacks or help close the distance before an attack is made.

And, beyond all of that, Blink's teleportation is instant. My team teleports away as fast as she can react (reaction perk!), while your team is sharing information and using other techniqures. By the time Horohoro uses his precog ability, my team's already disappeared.

Mr. Terrific is giving Blink orders so it actually comes down to can he give those orders before Horohoro attacks. Because Horohoro’s precog is an always on combat ability second nature, and it doesn’t take much to say “they’re retreating” to someone next to you while simultaneously attacking.

All in all, I think your statement that you kill 3 members of my team in the first second of the fight is downright false.

I haven't made a claim of anything impossible or outside of the rules. If your team can't defend against an attack it's possible & certainly not out of the question that they would die

Everything else is either static (already addressed pre emptively) or this:

Why's that? I was waiting to see how Floopay's team and yours interact, but Floopay's first move was to move throughout the building, so that's hardly the case. From the temporary safety of my team's teleportation, I could have Blink and Alita teleport Fireflies directly into your character's mouths and have them go off. What's a firefly, you ask? Well:

@sovereign91001: Tele frag is banned.

The following abilities (not character’s) are Banned: tele frag

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#36 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Nope.

I own & have read all of New 52 Mr. Terrific’s solo series and there is nothing to suggest his shield can block energy magical in nature. Plus he only used shields once in issue 6 to no avail.

I also blitzed through a few hundred chapters of Hunter X Hunter Manga last month stopping on chapter 33. Netero’s emission type construct only blocked brute force attacks no energy or ice manipulation attacks.

Netero's Nen type is never stated. It could be Enhancement, Emission, Conjuration or Specialization.

It's literally a giant spirit energy created puppet. If it can't block other spiritual attacks then I think you're making both an asspull and playing both sides of the fence by saying your attack is spiritual but ALSO directly physically affecting everything.

Horohoro has never flash frozen someone from that far away that would be against his moral. But here he’s blood lust & I have given a clear picture of the range of his normal power set. Also attacks with Horohoro’s spirit energy don’t acknowledge physical durability. Can you negate the sprit energy? If the answer is yes then you won’t freeze. If the answer is no then you will be flash frozen. Simple as that. Even through rules of equivalency your team can’t combat magic.

Flash freezing making enough snow to cover a city block & shake the ground.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/3003285-59_37_59__shaman+king+v05+c037+039.jpg

Proof enough?

No, it isn't. This isn't flash freezing. This is creating an avalanche and having it fall on an area. Which is neither "freezing" everything nor fast enough to stop my team from teleporting, nor would I imagine it could get past Netero, nor would I imagine that Alita couldn't easily vaporize it as it closes in on my team. Nor is it actually him using his powers at range -- it's him creating a lot of snow and having gravity due the work of making it fill the area. This isn't even a range feet. It's a volume feat, I suppose, though I imagine if he did this exact maneuver of having a torrential flow of snow come in that there'd be some friendly fire.

If you don't have a showing of him using specifically different powers at those ranges then no, I'm not gonna assume your guy can just kill everyone on either team with a gesture. Saying your guy can instantly kill anyone from 150 away with no real proof is cause for skepticism. You're making him sound literally more powerful than Iceman in temperature manipulation, even if he doesn't have the durability. You dodged the meaning of my statement by addressing a power (Iceman's incorporeal state) I wasn't referencing.

No I don’t think Alita can counter his spirit energy which is how he freezes things. Horohoro’s vibranium suit will protect him.

Okay, so you're saying your vibranium suit can stop extreme temperature attacks, but my FOUR vibranium suits don't do anything and everyone on my team just dies. Not buying it.

From what I’ve seen vibranium doesn’t protect against magical/spiritual based attacks, & reflexes won’t help against line of sight attacks or help close the distance before an attack is made.

Alright, we need to make a distinction here. Just because your powers are spiritual in nature does not mean their effects aren't physical. Netero's construct punching someone doesn't ignore physical barriers because it's made from spiritual energy. Your ability to flash freeze water in the air is a physical effect that can be blocked by physical means. If it wasn't then it'd just freeze souls or whatever and not body parts. There has to be some physical medium through which it travels for what you're saying to work.

I mean, it stops bullets, doesn't it? It clearly interacts on a physical level even if it's a spiritual power.

Mr. Terrific is giving Blink orders so it actually comes down to can he give those orders before Horohoro attacks. Because Horohoro’s precog is an always on combat ability second nature, and it doesn’t take much to say “they’re retreating” to someone next to you while simultaneously attacking.

You also said your team was exchanging info, using OTHER abilities, then attacking. Blink's teleportation also doesn't have to travel 150 feet.

How long does it take to say "they're retreating!" ? Does it take as long as saying "Blink, teleport us." ?

I haven't made a claim of anything impossible or outside of the rules. If your team can't defend against an attack it's possible & certainly not out of the question that they would die

And I'm calling you out for misrepresenting your powers. You can't freeze physical things but say your powers also ignore physical barriers.

Physical barriers that are also made of spirit energy. Which you decide to pick and choose to say that they can't block spiritual attacks.

I mean, it's outright hypocritical. Especially since your one range showing is literally a bunch of snow filling a large area and not a real range showing.

Tele frag is banned.

Telefragging is when you teleport inside of someone else and cause them to explode by taking up the same space they do. The fireflies wouldn't be doing that, they'd just teleport there then go off -- the effect is what kills you, not the teleportation.

If she can't teleport them into your mouths or whatever. She instead teleports them on top of your head or inside of your shirts or pants to make it difficult to identify what happened and get it away from you before it goes off, especially since you should have absolutely no idea what they do (basic knowledge shouldn't give full details about her drone abilities). There shouldn't be a rule stating that she can't teleport exploding devices at her opponent

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#37 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

You see, you state that we use a spiritual equivalency and state that by using that supposed equivalency, your character is able to "sense Jarlaxle's" motives, when Jarlaxle has an item specifically created to prevent people from sensing his motives, reading his thoughts, or anything along those lines.

Over and above this, your hypothesis is flawed and doesn't really use a real equivalent.

You state "everyone has souls" and it "senses and affects souls" so therefore it works. But there's much more to it than that.

Everyone who has read through comics should be aware of the concept of the "Astral Plane". That is the plane of existence a person's soul is on. Telepaths, and magic users can affect people minds by accessing the Astral Plane of existence. Going so far as to project their own soul or mind across the same plane of existence to have an "out of body" experience.

The Astral Plane exists in Dungeons and Dragons, Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, Image, Top Cow, Supernatural, Roman Mythology, Greek Mythology, Final Fantasy 7, Soul Eater, and many other fantasy, sci-fi, and rpg games. Similar to Marvel and DC, Psionics works both on the physical and astral planes of existence.

Realistically, Jarlaxle's eyepatch should very much protect him from such an attack. It could block illithids, beings of immense psionic power, the most powerful of drow psionicists, and could even keep out the Crystal Shard, an item that could enslave entire cities and attract monsters from miles away.

The whole concept of "he reads a person's soul but not their mind" when in much of manga, comics, novels, and mythos the concepts of consciousness and the soul put both on the same plane of existence and both can be accessed and manipulated accordingly.

Ogami Rei

Belphegor's power is not SOUND cancellation, it's POWER cancellation.

He can use it on any power to cancel it out.

Here it is being used against Satan's Blaze

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Again

Your team will not be able to even see my team. He will drop a Globe of Darkness at the start of battle, covering a 20 foot globe.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And then conjure a stone wall

If Penance breaks down the wall my team will already be gone...

Sesshomaru's Speed


As you can see, he's fast. He's very fast. He matches Spider Man's fastest speed feats head on. With Inuyasha only inches from him, he dodges Inuyasha and then pushes past him and is standing next to Kagome before either her or Inuyasha have moved. Him and Jarlaxle will be gone in an instant.

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Seras Victoria

Seras speed blitzing vampires. Her and Ogami will be gone in an instant.

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Seras carrying someone off:

Her carrying Sir Integra off with no issue of being encumbered

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

I've already provided that Jarlaxle will be giving Sesshomaru a rope to carry him with, as when he's levitating he's literally weightless. So Sesshomaru can easily carry him around like a dog on a leash at full speed to get him out of their fast (no, the irony of that is not lost on me at all).

Penance:

My team will be long gone before he makes it to my team. I've seen the scans, I've even read some of Speedball's appearances as Penance. The fact is, it takes him a second to charge up his beam attacks. Once he's determined there is a wall blocking his way to my team, he will have to destroy it.

Even assuming he does attack my team, the fact is by the time he destroys the wall, he'll still have to push past the globe of darkness in order to see if my team is there or not, which they won't be. I've already proven my team is fast enough to be gone within the first few seconds of the battle.

Remember, my team will cooperate, and none of the tactics I have presented are "new" for Jarlaxle. He has used all of these in the past, and thought them up spur of the moment. Running away and letting your enemies fight each other is a tactic used a half dozen times or more in the book series I've read. And each time they comment on how it's a common tactic used by their race. So I have little doubts my team, with the Perk that makes them cooperate with one another, will take much time at all to execute these plans.

If Penance wants to pursue my team after that...well...then he can have at it.

In order to pursue my team he will have to abandon yours and any help they can provide, because he will be chasing my team across Grand Central while your team stays in the common area.

Seras and Ogami can easily handle him.

Ogami uses power cancellation, and Seras sends her tendrils through his body. These Tendrils rip through the Captain with zero issue, someone who has caught an attack that rips through buildings with his hands, causing only mild bleeding. So it'll make quick work of him, and it can be used over long distances:

Seras vs Captain

She can rip through reinforced steel with ease with these things, and can spread it over a wide area in a wide distance, all piercing damage.

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Penance

He can pursue my team all he wants, but it'll be his end.

Also, after the first passageway my team will be setting up the dragon statuette, so if he pursues my team that alone will be his end. Seras and Ogami won't even have to get involved

Catching my team:

Your team will blow apart that wall and find nobody. Your choices are to either pursue my team, in which case that Dragon Statuette alone will guarentee at least one of your team members bites the dust along the way, and in the time it takes for that thing to finish spewing acid breath that can melt away a small armies worth of steel, bone, flesh, wood, and stone, my team will be long gone. They'll be rushing around waiting to be ambushed.

Your best bet would be to pursue @dredeuced's team.

Now to be the jerk!

I hate to say it @dredeuced, but I'm not ready to leave you out of this debate yet and ignore your team and your tactics.

Your Team:

Formidable, to be sure. However it was stated at the beginning of this tournament that team dynamics would be taken into consideration.

It is unfair to assume your team won't work towards common ends. When a team was made at the beginning of this tournament, that much is to be assumed and accepted for. Your team has the same goal, but they operate as themselves, whether or not that will make them function as individuals and as a team is dependent on each individual person's personality.

However, you chose to have full knowledge on both our teams at the beginning of this debate, you did not choose to have a team that would coordinate with each other, and your team was not assumed to work as if their personalities did not exist.

Your team may not bicker, and they obviously won't try to harm the others, but they still operate as themselves. They won't abandon their personalities, and they won't just assume the position of second in command if they are often someone used to being in charge.

That being said:

Your team has full knowledge of your opponents strengths and weaknesses. Now am I to assume all of your team is readily open to this "Run away and hide" tactic?

Isaac is borderline insane when it comes to battle, and he does not seem like the type to run and hide when put in front of a foe worthy of his challenge. @mr_ingenuity's team is attacking your team and attacking them hard. Isaac, by your own admission, has more than enough advantages over his team mates to make it a good fight. Are you saying he's going to readily accept the idea of giving up a good fight when his opponent is ready to confront to flee? Does he normally run away from battles? Even if the rest of your team chooses to run, will he willingly accept the role as second in command, or would he choose to fight and beckon others to follow him?

How about Alita? She has a body designed for confrontation, is she going to abandon the battle and any allies who choose not to flee? Does she often run away from her battles, or does she confront her opponents. Is she normally a leader, or a follower?

Mr. Terrific and Blink might both be used to being in a team, but if the rest of your team chooses to fight, are they the type to force others into following their whims? Even at the cost of destroying your teams dynamic? If they forcibly remove someone from battle who not only craves battle, but bloodlusts at the thought of a good fight, will that not devastate your team's ability to work together?

I took the teamwork perk because I figured my team needed it for this kind of battle. It gives my team the ability to coordinate their abilities and a level of control that is needed to make a 3 vs. 3 battle not a massacre one way or the other. Your team has full knowledge, your team knows your opponents weaknesses and strengths in full. If you have people on your team who crave battle, they will not willingly abandon their personality, abandon their desires, and abandon their assumed role in your team for the sake of someone else. My team will, only because of the Perk.

In my first round debate I chose a tactic that utilized each person's personality. I assumed Sesshomaru would be arrogant and rush into battle, I assumed Seras would take her ranged weapons and use them as ranged weapons, and I assumed the only reason Ogami would follow Jarlaxle, was because it served mutual interests. I made assumptions of team dynamics based on individual personalities. In the first round my team would not function like a well oiled machine, and I knew that. Therefore I debated with them as individuals with a common goal, each taking their own battle. Seras was an easy one to use if needed, because she's a follower, a soldier, and someone who takes directions better than she gives them. Whether it's from a police captain, her master Alucard, Sir Integra, Pip Bernadotte, or Jarlaxle Baenre, she is a follower, and in a team dynamic she can be assumed to fall under such a role.

My team:

Given the perk my team will function as if their personalities, and bad bloods are distinguished and that they will cooperate as a team and for the team.

That means Jarlaxle is the leader. Why? He has the most experience, he is the most charismatic, he has the most training, he has been a leader longer than any of them, his intelligence is unmatched, and that is the role he plays best.

Sesshomaru is following orders only because of the perk, his personality is dissolved into the party.

Seras Victoria is an expert at following orders as described above, and will do so to the best of her ability.

Ogami Rei has functioned both as a leader and as a follower. However, with his leadership skills being dwarfed to no end by Jarlaxle's, he'll will have to be content with the latter.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#38 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Your team has full knowledge of your opponents strengths and weaknesses. Now am I to assume all of your team is readily open to this "Run away and hide" tactic?

Yeah, and I'll tell you why no one on my team should have any problem with it.

Isaac is borderline insane when it comes to battle, and he does not seem like the type to run and hide when put in front of a foe worthy of his challenge. @mr_ingenuity's team is attacking your team and attacking them hard. Isaac, by your own admission, has more than enough advantages over his team mates to make it a good fight. Are you saying he's going to readily accept the idea of giving up a good fight when his opponent is ready to confront to flee? Does he normally run away from battles? Even if the rest of your team chooses to run, will he willingly accept the role as second in command, or would he choose to fight and beckon others to follow him?

Very much so. Isaac spent weeks hiding in the NGL forests during the Chimera Ant Incursion waiting for the right time to strike. He waited to the very last moment, where thousands of people would die if he didn't intervene, because he didn't want to make a rash move that would put the lives of him or his hunters in danger. Netero, as much of a lover of a fight as he is, has also never displayed any type of alpha dog personality and didn't even create the plan to attack the Chimera ants -- he got scouting information from Knov and let Morel design the plan of attack.

Netero is otherworldly patient and operates on a greater good moral basis. I can give you the Chimera Ant arc chapters to read if you don't believe me -- Gon and Killua literally get a week of training while Netero is hiding out in the wilderness preparing.

And, beyond all of that, Netero honestly wouldn't have a choice. It's not like he can resist Blink's teleportation, and it's not like he's stupid enough to charge off to fight your teams by himself.

How about Alita? She has a body designed for confrontation, is she going to abandon the battle and any allies who choose not to flee? Does she often run away from her battles, or does she confront her opponents. Is she normally a leader, or a follower?

I don't think she's either a leader or a follower. She works with a bunch of people she considers friends and allies, but she never bosses them around to do anything. She's more than willing to take orders, especially from friends (Lou Collins, the girl seen in my probe lice scan, would frequently tell her what to do and she'd accept it). She's also not stupid -- she loves to fight but when outnumbered or outgunned, she has taken up hiding to scope the situation out and decide a better strategy. She ran away from Barjack's forces despite wanting to fight here:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Note: She has mellowed out a whole lot since this, mind you. This was before she met Kaos or before she fell in love with Figure. She's much more levelheaded and reasonable in Last Order after she goes through some experiences. There should be no problem with her and Blink working together to kill dudes.

Mr. Terrific and Blink might both be used to being in a team, but if the rest of your team chooses to fight, are they the type to force others into following their whims? Even at the cost of destroying your teams dynamic? If they forcibly remove someone from battle who not only craves battle, but bloodlusts at the thought of a good fight, will that not devastate your team's ability to work together?

The only person on my team who's ever had a real bloodlust for battle was Alita, and she's since gotten over that (She even stops herself from killing Trinidad, a guy she utterly hates, because it would negatively affect her friends and wouldn't let her win a tournament to save the Scrapyard and Tiphares). Netero is exceedingly patient and worked with dozens of hunters on combined operations before.

I took the teamwork perk because I figured my team needed it for this kind of battle. It gives my team the ability to coordinate their abilities and a level of control that is needed to make a 3 vs. 3 battle not a massacre one way or the other. Your team has full knowledge, your team knows your opponents weaknesses and strengths in full. If you have people on your team who crave battle, they will not willingly abandon their personality, abandon their desires, and abandon their assumed role in your team for the sake of someone else. My team will, only because of the Perk.

Let me put it this way. If @mr_ingenuity is not fudging me and can actually instakill anyone on either team with Horohoro's ice powers, then there's no conflict of interests here. My team would like to fight, but not 8 v 4. They're all more level headed than that. And, as I said, Blink's powers aren't optional. They teleport with us then Mr. Terrific goes through the plans of getting everyone on the same com link and seeing how the fight unfolds. They've got more than a minute's worth of patience, especially with full knowledge of how dangerous your teams are.

If someone crashes our pow wow then they'd probably step up to fight, but you seem intent on trying to force the idea that me and Ingenuinty kill ourselves and you come in and clean up the remains. My entire goal was to make sure no one gets that easy out in this debate. My team's employing a strategy that won our last fight fairly well (Blink teleports Alita's drones at the enemy).

@mr_ingenuity@dredeuced@floopay

Mr_I is correct. Tele frag is banned as is tele cut and tele drop

Is what I'm doing tele fragging? See, this is telefragging:

Telefrag

I'm not doing that. If I were having Blink recreate the Hyperion feat exactly by, say, teleporting a ton of stone into someone's stomach and having them explode, then that'd be telefragging. As it is, I'm teleporting a device onto someone's person and having it go off. Is that against the rules? It isn't telefragging in the slightest.

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#40 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced That is correct. And no that is not illegal (It's hard to counter but not illegal). It doesn't bypass any durability unlike Telefragging which is why I banned it. What you're doing is just a matter of overcoming durabilty. You can't teleport inside of a character's costume/armor. On top of it/near it is fine though.

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#41 Posted by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced That is correct. And no that is not illegal (It's hard to counter but not illegal). It doesn't bypass any durability unlike Telefragging which is why I banned it. What you're doing is just a matter of overcoming durabilty. You can't teleport inside of a character's costume/armor. On top of it/near it is fine though.

Cool, then they'll just teleport on top of their heads or at their feet. As long as they have to get through the character's durability. So it was my mistake to say she teleports them inside Mr_I's teams' mouths. My apologies, Mr_I.

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#42 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14550 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @mr_ingenuity@sovereign91001

Note:

I probably won't be able to get back on until Saturday, so this will more than likely be my last post.

Running Away:

I think I've made a fairly compelling argument for this, and I actually stand by my tactic. Between the Globe of Darkness (or two), and the Wall of Stone, I don't see anyone getting to my team before they can flee. Especially seeing as my team is at the limits of this tournaments speed allowance.

My team will run, and then confer somewhere and exchange items.

Jarlaxle will give Sesshomaru his second Ring of Dimension Door at this point.

Dredeuced's Team:

Alright, now your team will be dropping drones left and right am I correct?

My guess would be most of these would be sent towards Mr_Ingenuity's team. Why?

Well, my team is sticking together, and not straying from one another. Because of this, your team would know that Ogami can negate the effects of fire around him with his blue flame. Essentially, incendiary and explosive drones would be useless.

Ogami Stops Explosives from harming Sakura and a Puppy

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As you can see, nobody was harmed. Except the guy he incinerated with a handshake afterwards....

Ogami escapes by using blue flame to fend off explosion

Same deal again, this time someone grabs his team mates before he has to protect them, but he still protects himself.

I have several more of these feats, he actually has to use this tactic often.

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Seras can shield my team

Over and above this, Seras is next to immune to concussive force from explosions (and yes, she's vulnerable to piercing, bullets, and slashing attacks, she's just very resistant to blunt force and concussive, so she's within the tournament limits).

She can also shield my team vs explosives if needed.

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Jarlaxle can make himself immune to fire if needed.

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On this same note, he can conjure a fire shield, just like Gromph's. Remember that one?

However, he'll likely erect the ice shield to protect himself, it's the cold version of this.

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Realistically

I'm not looking at a lot of prep here, some quick equipment exchange, erect a few buffs, and then get ready for action!

The Battle:

Sesshomaru

Sesshomaru's job will be to locate your team. I know your argument already. How will he know where you are? Not enough time for the air to circulate and for him to pick up on scents, etc.

Well, that's all good, but the problem is that my team has seen yours. He can easily smell out a cyborg and a bunch of tech from Mr. Terrific. The scent of metal will be much easier to pick up than picking up a scent, and figuring out exactly what happened at a location several days after the incident.

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Not the first time either.

Depowered Sesshomaru fights off Superhuman fighters

Alright, both these guys are superhuman. Before their enhancements, they were capable of taking out armies. Normally the full team was said to be capable of taking on a hundred men, but there are only these two. However, they are severely enhanced with the Shikon Jewel Fragments, which has multiplied their ability several times over.

Sesshomaru easily handles these guys, going so far as to deflect the guy's attacks back at him. Remember, this is an Anti-Demon barrier, one powerful enough to completely eliminate Inuyasha's powers, drive away demons, and eliminate the special properties of Inuyasha and Sesshomaru's swords.

Even within the barrier though, he is more than capable of picking up the scents of Kikyo's body (identifying that she smells of grave soil and etc.)

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Why is this important?

There are only two other teams, and two other groups of people. It shouldn't be difficult to distinguish between the tech group and Mr_Ingenuity's mutant group. Especially with all the drones your team has.

My Tactic
My team will strategize briefly, and I think the best tactic, seeing as you've gone after Mr_Ingenuity's team (and possibly mine, though fruitless, it's your choice if you wanna drop drones on my team).

I think Jarlaxle will probably listen to Seras's tactic, and go with that.

Woah, woah, woah! What happened to Seras is a follower not a leader!?

Don't worry, it's not technically her tactics, but it's a brilliant one Jarlaxle will undoubtedly agree with. Even Ogami has used this tactic before in the past, and Sesshomaru will view your team as below him anyway so for him I doubt he'd care.

Seras holds two people in her body, herself, and Pip Bernadotte. As shown here:

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He has offered her strategic and moral support as well, I'll get on that later.

Now then, why this is important as Pip Bernadotte understands the important of using Surprise and massive Area of Effect to one's advantage. As shown here:

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So, the best tactic for my team would be the element of surprise, followed by massive Area of Effect. Something no team could dodge around, even if they wanted to.

So here's how my team does that.

My team should know Mr_Ingenuity's team's scent

This means by process of deduction, they should know which team is yours, which is his.

In case he can't, he'll have a pretty good idea of both team's location due to his bat familiar constantly scouting:

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My team moves towards yours.

My team will move close enough to be within Dimension Door Range (which isn't very close, a good 1,000 feet). I have two rings of Dimension Door, each can take 1 person with them, so my team can simultaneously drop.

As you can see with Valas Hune, the door only appears on one end, so your team will only see my team appear on top of them.

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My team drops in.

My team will use a Globe of Darkness just before teleporting on one of Seras's shells, an explosive one.

When they drop in, Seras will immediately drop one of her shells, it has this effect:

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The shell will drop, it won't detonate, Ogami will handle that.

Seras will be in charge of a massive AoE Piercing Attack:


She will drop in and go as quick as possible. She's fast, very fast, she blitz's vampires and keeps up with the Captain, she's at the limits of this tournament. She'll easily spread her attack with ease.

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Ogami

Ogami will already have the Catharsis Flame of Beelzebul activated.

As you can see, he can choose who it burns, as shown here, so that heat will already be radiating off of him when my team drops in, your team won't have a chance to defend against it.

Here he melts something underneath his allies, without affecting them.

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Yes, it works against people

I realize I haven't posted anything showing it works against actual living things. The scan above actually happens AFTER this next set of scans. These things, as you will see, are well above peak human durability. In fact, by the time he gets to them they are resisting I-Beams being thrown at them without any real damage to their person (an I-Beam weights about 600 pounds, and Toki throws them at bullet speeds).

They've even resisted some of Ogami's flames at this point.

However, when he busts out Beelzebul, it's over, and they are done for.

This will be the Beelzebul he uses, the real form. Not just the weak form I showed in the other 2 sets of scans. This one is completely invisible, and it makes him mostly camouflage. Seeing as this melts steel (1500 degrees Celsius+), it would easily kill most of your team.

Blink's blood would instant vaporize, her body would be turns to a husk of carbon as the gas from inside her body caused her to explode, or as shown in these scans against people who are actually superhumanly durable, it would just turn her to ash.

Alita's metal components would melt away, her bullets would explode and her weapons would be rendered useless.

Netero, I dunno his resistance to heat.

I dunno Mr_Terrific's resistance either.

As you can see, this thing incinerates a small army, as these things being to multiply as the fight went on.

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Sesshomaru

Sesshomaru (by the way, I'm using end of the manga Sesshomaru, who has both arms), can sling out acid with one of his hands. This acid has melted through iron, steel, and his father's bones (which were much much harder than steel, they stood up to diamond assaults with only mild damage). This has a pretty good area of effect, and can be slung at anyone who might still be alive.

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If that doesn't work

He'll simultaneously, with his other arm, use his sword to hit a wide area with massive wind cutting damage. Easily slicing through Inuyasha (who has stood up to cannon fire), even after the attacks are blocked, it hits a nice wide area.

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While this is happening:

Jarlaxle will be barraging your team with spells from his wands. There are two here, one is capable of producing bolts of lightning, which were enough to harm and get a Great Red Wyrm's attention.

The other wand, is powerful enough to stick that Wyrm in it's place, sealing it's tale to the stone floor, and then sealing it's mouth shut with the next blast. Any of your team that is hit by it will be fully immobilized.

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If it's down to one or two people left, Jarlaxle has his bracers.

As you can see, in a small sparring room, and not even on opposite ends of the room (3-5 meters away, at best), Jarlaxle is able to have 4 throwing daggers in the air before the first one connects and hits it's target.

About 40% of his daggers that are thrown, are illusions. However, they have weight, make noise, look real, and if struck, feel real. Unless someone has a means of countering the illusions, those ones can, and will, kill somebody.

Here are two instances of him throwing daggers.

Notice he also has that cloak on that displaces his location. So even if your team does fire back, they have to assume he's somewhere within 6 meters of his current location. So getting him is not going to be easy.

Note: With the perk, Jarlaxle's daggers are Adamantium, over and above the fact that they have enhanced piercing power. These were able to puncture the hide of a Great Red Wyrm, being adamantium would enhance them all the more.

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Now then

Blink and Alita should be pretty much done just by Ogami's presence and his attack.

Isaac and Mr. Terrific now have to deal with my entire team and their full assault.

Remember: This is MASSIVE area of effect. Explosions, acid, wind attacks, piercing, slashing, lightning, and a barrage of magically enchanted adamantium daggers. It's no small task trying to survive this.

Over and above this, Jarlaxle can wall your team in with his wand if he'd like.

Mr_Ingenuity, your turn

Now then, as you can see, Ogami was hurt just by over using Beelzebul. I have an easy solution to this.

Any damage received by my team during that fight can be cured by Jarlaxle and his orb of healing. Here are two instances of it's use (I have more), both happen at once, but he withholds using it to get some answers, then continues to use it after. Just so you know.

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Dimension Door

I doubt your team will try to avoid mine, I mean, they are bloodlusted. My team will welcome the confrontation.

Ogami:

Ogami can cancel out much of your team's attacks with Belphegor, as I showed earlier.

Additionally, he's gone up against a powerful electric user int he past.

Hitomi - Can create fields of electricity, like a giant net across a room, he can go so far as to control someone's central nervous system by touch, he can create massive balls of lightning, and tear through stone and buildings with his attacks.

Ogami vs Hitomi

This is a much much weaker version of Ogami, and he can easily resist Hitomi's attacks. Once he removes his ring, Hitomi isn't even an issue for him. Ogami's ring is a thing of the past that he doesn't use anymore, just an FYI.

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Over and above this, he can hit huge areas and affect your team with Beelzebul:

Beelzebul:

See above against Dredeuced's team. This will also protect my team vs. Horohoro.

Mammon:

If he has to, he can hit a wide area, and melt through steel and create a massive slicing attack using the twin flames of Mammon. This will easily cut through anyone weak against slashing damage, and do a lot of damage against a lot of members of your team.

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Satan's Flame

The ultimate flame attack. It has several uses.

As seen against Hitomi, he can conjure it above and around him, without need of touch or whatever.

First use: Can incinerate steel with no problem, has decent AoE, and etc.

Second use: When hit, it can cause someone to see their death and see the one's they've harmed in the past.

Third use: If he touches somebody, he can place the bonds of censure on their body. If they intend to commit malice, it will incinerate them from the inside out. So your team member would be left completely inert, unless they intend on dying.

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Finally:

If worse comes to worse, he can freeze one of your team members in a block of ice that never melts.

Leviathan

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Ogami:

Ogami can tank slashing and bludgeoning attacks as well.

Stands in an attack that shatters stone with zero issue:

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Ogami vs Slashing attacks:

Over and over he comes in against these attacks. But over and over he resists them.

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Seras

Seras can use her wide area of effect, or she can attack directly.

She's also a vampire, and not one like any of your team has seen before. There are three ways of killing her. Stake through the heart, holy weapons, and decapitation Your team won't know that, and as a result she'll be able to recover from most of your team's attacks until they get a lucky shot.

Seras Blitzing Vampires

Seras puts fear into the hearts of battle hardened Nazi Vampries. She uses her arm to rip through them pretty easily.

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Seras's Accuracy

Seras can also pick off much of your team pretty easily. She can hit something 5600 meters (3.5 miles) that's in a full sprint, and it's a vampire so it's superhumanly fast.

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Seras vs the Captain part 1

As you can see, she's actually fast enough to deal with someone like the Captain. She can tank steel busting strikes, and is incredibly resistant to blunt force. However, his gun is still able to harm her, as shown.

As you can see, she recovers from almost all injury pretty quickly.

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Seras vs Captain part 2

Massive area of effect attacks, she can tank attacks that shatter steel, and her impact hits some explosives and she comes back with little injury.

She can throw a 550 pound bomb at him, and tanks the explosion. She locks fists with him and her arm shatters, but she stays smiling.

Over and above this she has Pip Bernadotte to give her instructions and keep an eye on the battlefield for her.

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Seras vs Captain part 3

Regenerates her fist almost instantly.

Pip comes out of her body, the rest is pretty much irrelevant.

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Then we have Sesshomaru

Sesshomaru

Sesshomaru has Tenseiga. This blade will protect him once against an attack that would kill or otherwise maim him. It's only ever brought up it's barrier once in an encounter, and it's allowed him to be damaged before. But this would serve as an extra barrier of protection against a powerful strike.

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His Sword, Speed, Reflexes

Sesshomaru can project a cutting strength from his sword without touching someone. He never even makes contact with Inuyasha here, and Inuyasha winds up covered in cuts. As seen at the end, he's even going easy on Inuyasha. Inuyasha is enhanced in this instance, as he becomes a full blooded demon in this state. At one point, he hits Sesshomaru's sword, and winds up with cutting wounds all over his arm as a result.

Over and above this, he doesn't even have to point it at Inuyasha, as seen in the last few scans, it can be projected from the sides of his weapon as well.

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Strength, and Punching Power

With a single punch, he launches Inuyasha into the ground, leaving a crater and a landing strip where he flew. He replicates this feat several times throughout the manga.

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Jarlaxle

I've already shown a good variety of his attacks, but lets expand on those further.

Summon Nightmare

He can easily give my team a minor numbers advantage by summoning this hellish warhorse. They weight about 850 pounds, breath fire, and can serve as quite the distraction if needed. He can throw this right on top of your team's face and call this thing forth, easily knocking them off guard and taking them by surprise.

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Over and above this:

I don't feel like getting the scan, I'm tired and it's late, but you can read about it here:

The feather on Jarlaxle's hat allows him to summon a 10 foot Diatryma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastornis

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jarlaxle_Baenre

Overall:

Obviously I don't expect my plan to be perfect, but I think I've proven that even if there are some hiccups, my team is more than formidable enough to deal with either team, and with the massive AoE and the Dimension Doors (up to 2 per ring), and my team's physical abilities and versatility, my team should be able to overcome this battle.

Sesshomaru, Jarlaxle, Ogami, and Seras can all resist spiritual attacks as well. In fact, they all have in the past, so that's a solid defense against any I haven't seen presented yet (when I see anime characters, I always figure they'll show up eventually).

I think my team has a reasonable chance of taking out enough people to turn this in my team's favor. The biggest advantage is AoE, this can take out a lot of grief that would normally be had through dodging characters.

That and Ogami's power cancellation will prove very useful defensively.

Over and above this:

Seras is carrying this gun with one bullet ready to be used. It's slow, but at point blank range whoever it is used against has no chance of dodging. Mr. Terrific, Isaac, Isaac's Construct, whomever, this is an instant kill for 1 person.

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Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Avatar image for dredeuced
#44 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Alright, now your team will be dropping drones left and right am I correct?

My guess would be most of these would be sent towards Mr_Ingenuity's team. Why?

Well, my team is sticking together, and not straying from one another. Because of this, your team would know that Ogami can negate the effects of fire around him with his blue flame. Essentially, incendiary and explosive drones would be useless.

I don't see why. I'll explain:

Ogami Stops Explosives from harming Sakura and a Puppy

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As you can see, nobody was harmed. Except the guy he incinerated with a handshake afterwards....

Except this was with Ogami knowing stuff was going to blow up. He has no idea what fireflies are or do -- that'd take the benefit of full knowledge. He'd also have no idea they were teleporting on both him and his allies and going off then and there. By the time he realizes there's a plasma explosion, your team is already covered in plasma. Maybe he can react to what happens AFTER they go off then pull the heat away, but it's asinine to believe that he preemptively stops the flare when he doesn't know it's coming.

I have several more of these feats, he actually has to use this tactic often.

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I think you're mistaking my fireflies for other drones I used in our previous matches. This is a raw spherical plasma ball that erupts from the fireflies after landing on your team's heads or at their feet. There's no tell tale throwing motion that lets Ogami react and throw up his blue flames to stop it from hitting all four members of your team. You could make the case that Ogami could protect himself from such an attack because he felt the bug land on him, SOMEHOW knew in the microsecond it takes for them to go off that they're fire based, and activated the correct ability to barely save himself (and honestly, I think even that's stretching it), but I find it absurd he could protect every single member when he has no idea what's happening.

Seras can shield my team

Over and above this, Seras is next to immune to concussive force from explosions (and yes, she's vulnerable to piercing, bullets, and slashing attacks, she's just very resistant to blunt force and concussive, so she's within the tournament limits).

She can also shield my team vs explosives if needed.

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It's not an explosive force, per se. As said in the scan, it's MEANT for mining ultra tough metal ores and creating tunnels. Tunnel makers don't want to blow things up when they can burn them away with plasma. This should be irrelevant in regards to fireflies. And once again, they should have no idea what's going on. I doubt basic knowledge includes firefly info.

Jarlaxle can make himself immune to fire if needed.

On this same note, he can conjure a fire shield, just like Gromph's. Remember that one?

However, he'll likely erect the ice shield to protect himself, it's the cold version of this.

I need to make sure all the readers read these passages because there's a very important detail here -- if people just skimmed this they would assume that Jarlaxle is constantly immune to fire attacks, but Floopay's own scan specifically states that he has to consciously choose what he needs to resist.

This is technology from the far future. What in the world would make Jarlaxe suspicious -- if he even KNEW what was going on -- that a plasma attack was about to happen? Did someone warn him before hand? Does he have full knowledge of Alita's tech and gear and her strategic combination with Blink?

You can't assume your team has activated defenses up 24/7, especially when they just spent their time fleeing and are then spending some time discussing strategy and handing out gear and explaining how to use it. You act as if your team has perfect precognition of what's about to happen to them and have all their countermeasures in place as soon as it happens. They shouldn't know what's happening, they shouldn't know what the four devices that just suddenly appeared at their feet or on top of their heads do, heck they shouldn't really be able to react to it since it's a complete surprise and my team is timing the attacks specifically to go off as soon as they teleport.

My team should be able to enact our strategy much quicker, because they're not stopping to set up dragon statues or, hell, they don't even have to run away to create the distance you need. As soon as the fight starts, they're gone and setting up faster than you can due to the nature of our departures.

Sesshomaru's job will be to locate your team. I know your argument already. How will he know where you are? Not enough time for the air to circulate and for him to pick up on scents, etc.

Well, that's all good, but the problem is that my team has seen yours. He can easily smell out a cyborg and a bunch of tech from Mr. Terrific. The scent of metal will be much easier to pick up than picking up a scent, and figuring out exactly what happened at a location several days after the incident.

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Not the first time either.

Again, this still doesn't address the speed air travels. Unless Sesshomaru waits a couple of minutes for the air my team is standing in after teleportation to circulate through the giant building. You can't just go "Sense of smell! He's omnidirectionally aware of everything!" when there are inherent limitations to the sense of smell because of how smelling works. In practically all the showings you've given me he's tracking the path someone went down or an area someone was fighting in -- which my team circumvents through teleportation.

My Tactic

My team will strategize briefly, and I think the best tactic, seeing as you've gone after Mr_Ingenuity's team (and possibly mine, though fruitless, it's your choice if you wanna drop drones on my team).

My attacks would only be fruitless if your team had precognition and full knowledge of how my abilities and tools work. They have neither. As I said, it's absurd to think your team even knows what's going on until the fireflies activate.

My Tactic

My team will strategize briefly, and I think the best tactic, seeing as you've gone after Mr_Ingenuity's team (and possibly mine, though fruitless, it's your choice if you wanna drop drones on my team).

I think Jarlaxle will probably listen to Seras's tactic, and go with that.

Woah, woah, woah! What happened to Seras is a follower not a leader!?

Don't worry, it's not technically her tactics, but it's a brilliant one Jarlaxle will undoubtedly agree with. Even Ogami has used this tactic before in the past, and Sesshomaru will view your team as below him anyway so for him I doubt he'd care.

Seras holds two people in her body, herself, and Pip Bernadotte. As shown here:

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He has offered her strategic and moral support as well, I'll get on that later.

Now then, why this is important as Pip Bernadotte understands the important of using Surprise and massive Area of Effect to one's advantage. As shown here:

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So, the best tactic for my team would be the element of surprise, followed by massive Area of Effect. Something no team could dodge around, even if they wanted to.

I think you're just reaching for a reason to post scans, here, since apparently this will be your last post. There's no reason why Seras has to specifically come up with this plan even if she's done something similar before. Frankly, it's YOU coming up with the plan, for all intents and purposes. I understand the want to, but it's fairly irrelevant.

So here's how my team does that.

My team should know Mr_Ingenuity's team's scent

This means by process of deduction, they should know which team is yours, which is his.

Why? Your team ran away, first thing. They were in the same room as my team for a split second before ditching the scene, too, that doesn't change any of my points when it comes to the fact that Sesshomaru never could've gotten a whiff of our teams if his first plan of action was to run away. As said, Sesshomaru and the rest of your team travel much faster than the air currents inside a building.

Especially considering you walled your team completely off from Mr_I's. How is the smell even getting past that wall, for Sesshomaru to sniff it?

My team will move close enough to be within Dimension Door Range (which isn't very close, a good 1,000 feet). I have two rings of Dimension Door, each can take 1 person with them, so my team can simultaneously drop.

As you can see with Valas Hune, the door only appears on one end, so your team will only see my team appear on top of them.

How far on top of them? Because if it's 15 meters, Alita will instantly sense them:

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And Netero's En stretches up to 50 meters in all directions.

I'd also like to point out some hypocrisy in a double standard you created. Apparently YOUR team can react to something teleporting directly onto them and instantly use their powers to mitigate the effect, despite not even knowing what fireflies do.

But MY team is, somehow, completely surprised by your team's teleportation attack despite A: not being point blank to somewhere they can't see (like my fireflies), B: my team having full knowledge that your team can teleport in with the dimension rings thanks to the perk and C: My team having two people with supernatural senses (one of which is precognition) that instantly alert them to anyone in the area.

This is a very important and very biased distinction you've made. Your team can reap the benefits of teleport surprise while mine can't despite mine having the advantage of Alita's precognition and Netero's En, not to mention full knowledge that you can do this. My team should be much more suited to reacting to a teleportation attack than yours.

My team will use a Globe of Darkness just before teleporting on one of Seras's shells, an explosive one.

When they drop in, Seras will immediately drop one of her shells, it has this effect:

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The shell will drop, it won't detonate, Ogami will handle that.

Wait, would this even work? For one, globe of darkness, as I've read it, creates a giant 20 foot barrier of impermeable blackness to block vision, but the T-Mask's my team have, Netero's En and Alita's Chi would be completely unaffected. They'd be able to see right through it and redirect the attack back at you ala blink or just destroy it in midair before it reaches us by having Netero smash it as soon as Seras drops it with a Kyuu Jyuu Kyuu no Te.

Which would also smash your team as soon as they deigned attack us.

Seras will be in charge of a massive AoE Piercing Attack:

She will drop in and go as quick as possible. She's fast, very fast, she blitz's vampires and keeps up with the Captain, she's at the limits of this tournament. She'll easily spread her attack with ease.

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This is where I believe you made your second fatal flaw in reasoning (the first being the "counters" to my Teleport attacks). You're dimension dooring in above my team, which implies being in midair. Your speed is useless unless your team is fast enough to run on air (hint, they can't be). You can only fall so fast unless you use some form of attack to push you downwards faster than gravity pulls you.

Four people fall out of the air into Netero's En, like sitting ducks, trying to surprise a man who can instantly sense their encroachment and respond to an attack fast enough to surprise a hypersonic Mereum:

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No one on your team can blitz faster than Mereum, so no, you're not "blitzing" anyone. I'll take Netero in a quickdraw over anyone here. He doesn't have straightline speed to brag about due to his age, but his reaction and his prayer attacks are much, much faster than your team.

Ogami

Ogami will already have the Catharsis Flame of Beelzebul activated.

As you can see, he can choose who it burns, as shown here, so that heat will already be radiating off of him when my team drops in, your team won't have a chance to defend against it.

Here he melts something underneath his allies, without affecting them.

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Yes, it works against people

I realize I haven't posted anything showing it works against actual living things. The scan above actually happens AFTER this next set of scans. These things, as you will see, are well above peak human durability. In fact, by the time he gets to them they are resisting I-Beams being thrown at them without any real damage to their person (an I-Beam weights about 600 pounds, and Toki throws them at bullet speeds).

They've even resisted some of Ogami's flames at this point.

However, when he busts out Beelzebul, it's over, and they are done for.

This will be the Beelzebul he uses, the real form. Not just the weak form I showed in the other 2 sets of scans. This one is completely invisible, and it makes him mostly camouflage. Seeing as this melts steel (1500 degrees Celsius+), it would easily kill most of your team.

Blink's blood would instant vaporize, her body would be turns to a husk of carbon as the gas from inside her body caused her to explode, or as shown in these scans against people who are actually superhumanly durable, it would just turn her to ash.

Alita's metal components would melt away, her bullets would explode and her weapons would be rendered useless.

Netero, I dunno his resistance to heat.

I dunno Mr_Terrific's resistance either.

As you can see, this thing incinerates a small army, as these things being to multiply as the fight went on.

Making a lot of assumptions now, are we? Who said my team cares about invisibile fire? Clearly your flames produce heat (you even pointed out a precise temperature yourself!), which all of my team can see thanks to the T-Mask (infrared vision is standard, yo):

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Note, I know there's not TECHNICALLY him showing infrared usage here, but he specifically states his mask gives him vision along the entire electromagnetic spectrum, which would include infrared. Thanks to full knowledge, my team's aware of both Rei's invisible flames and Jarlaxe's penchant for fire shields. If you can go back and change who you give your ring to, is it fair to say my team takes the precaution of making sure they can't be surprised by invisible heat?

I say this because I originally assumed your team had teleportation distance limits and a limitation on how it works (I still question whether Sesshomaru can even locate my team or if you even survive the fireflies) so I thought my team was safe. When you gave me more information on the ability, which my team would have from Full Knowledge, it becomes apparent my team needs to prepare for a teleportation strike not unlike the ones I'm using with Blink.

Heck, I assume you'd go after my team (assuming you survive the fireflies) afterwards because no one likes getting attacked from places they can't counter.

Anyhow, moving on. Alita can clearly sense your attacks through her Chi's precognition and omnidirectional awareness, so it's time to bust this baby out:

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Remember in my original post, when I said Alita counters fire attacks? Well, her plasma controls allow her to manipulate any blaze -- this one was a superheated explosion from a chemical bath, also hot enough to melt steel (even hotter considering it threatened Alita's berseker body). This was also literally Alita's first fight ever with her plasma weaponry, at her novice stages.

With later experience, well...

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Yeah, she can control and counter temperatures up to 100,000 degrees centigrade. What was that, you said? 1500 C? Oh my, that just won't cut it. Not only can Alita control heat, she can actually send her own shockwaves through it to blast your team. You remember from our last fight, right? The Hertza Haeon, the shockwaves that make people's heads explode.

You see, I didn't just slap a similar team together and go to this tourney out of loyalty to the characters or whatever, I learned from our last little scuffle in Cadence's tourney what Rei could do, and coming into this fight my primary goal was countering this guy (Sorry Mr_I, you haven't burned me yet like Floopay has. Get it? Burned? I'm sorry, that was horrible) because of his absurd ability to just kill anyone with super flames. Thankfully, Sovereign gave me that out with the gear up perk. I'm not falling for the same little trick you used last time of having Rei come in from above my team and automatically win the fight by going "Well he melts steel so your characters are dead!" You gave me a hard lesson in my first tournament and I'd like to think I've learned a thing or two.

PS: How does Seras, Jarlaxe and Sesshomaru deal with 15,000 degree temperatures (This is the heat she puts out without building it up like in those scans I showed)? Because as soon as Rei's attacks get redirected, a Superheated plasma burst is going directly at a bunch of guy who are falling out of the sky, with no apparent ability to move thanks to, well, falling out of the sky.

Sesshomaru (by the way, I'm using end of the manga Sesshomaru, who has both arms), can sling out acid with one of his hands. This acid has melted through iron, steel, and his father's bones (which were much much harder than steel, they stood up to diamond assaults with only mild damage). This has a pretty good area of effect, and can be slung at anyone who might still be alive.

The acid should be mainly destroyed by our little heat exchange. That said, my team can dodge or blink can just teleport the acid back onto Sesshomaru or one of your other teammates and melt them, or heck Netero's construct will probably be in the way. It's not like a spirit energy created golem has molecules that dissolve in acid (that's how acid works, ya'know).

If that doesn't work

He'll simultaneously, with his other arm, use his sword to hit a wide area with massive wind cutting damage. Easily slicing through Inuyasha (who has stood up to cannon fire), even after the attacks are blocked, it hits a nice wide area.

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Excuse me, but isn't this the windscar? The attack that comes from hitting the rift between two demon's auras? Sesshomaru even mentions it when he states that the windscar he uses against Inuyasha is weak because he's a half demon in scan #12 of this little bundle. No one on my team is a demon, there would be no aura rift to exploit.

If it's just, like, him using a wind slash then once again it should be blown back by Alita's and Rei's exchange and it shouldn't really affect the vibranium everyone on my team is wearing.

Jarlaxle will be barraging your team with spells from his wands. There are two here, one is capable of producing bolts of lightning, which were enough to harm and get a Great Red Wyrm's attention.

The other wand, is powerful enough to stick that Wyrm in it's place, sealing it's tale to the stone floor, and then sealing it's mouth shut with the next blast. Any of your team that is hit by it will be fully immobilized.

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I'm pretty sure he can only use one wand at a time and, frankly, how fast is the speed of goop? My team won't be distracted like that apparently stupid dragon. Netero's massive construct probably wouldn't be too affected by getting gooped and Blink can teleport more than one thing at once. I'd assume there's a giant wave of plasma in the way of Alita and, well, Terrific flies.

My team's got plenty of durability thanks to Vibranium + inherent durability (Netero's Ken, Alita being a cyborg, Terrific's suit which takes pretty significant blasts without being harmed, blink's teleport defenses). I'm not sure how that compares to a dragon because I don't think there's equal comparison between fantasy land and comics land.

If it's down to one or two people left, Jarlaxle has his bracers.

As you can see, in a small sparring room, and not even on opposite ends of the room (3-5 meters away, at best), Jarlaxle is able to have 4 throwing daggers in the air before the first one connects and hits it's target.

About 40% of his daggers that are thrown, are illusions. However, they have weight, make noise, look real, and if struck, feel real. Unless someone has a means of countering the illusions, those ones can, and will, kill somebody.

Here are two instances of him throwing daggers.

Notice he also has that cloak on that displaces his location. So even if your team does fire back, they have to assume he's somewhere within 6 meters of his current location. So getting him is not going to be easy.

Note: With the perk, Jarlaxle's daggers are Adamantium, over and above the fact that they have enhanced piercing power. These were able to puncture the hide of a Great Red Wyrm, being adamantium would enhance them all the more.

This is assuming cleanup of my team. If he's put away his wand then Blink can just teleport the daggers as they come out. She's got Batman's reflexes which dwarf anything I've seen from Jarlaxle so far (crossbows at best, right?) so this shouldn't even be difficult to stop a throwing knife. Thank goodness Alita defended her, huh?

Blink and Alita should be pretty much done just by Ogami's presence and his attack.

I wouldn't underestimate Alita if I were you. She's dealt with far greater temperatures than I've seen Rei put out and controlled and contained them. So nah, I don't think so.

Isaac and Mr. Terrific now have to deal with my entire team and their full assault.

Hell, you know what, even if that were the case (nope), why couldn't they, again?

As far as I can tell, your team is dropping out of the air and are sitting ducks to a guy who can do this:

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I mentioned the Kyuu Jyuu Kyuu no Te before, but words don't quite do it justice. It is thousand upon thousands of rapid hits -- each individually capable of shattering several meter wide chunks of stone. Your team's falling directly into it.

I'll admit, chances are some of your attacks will damage the construct while hit lays into your team, but would it stop thousands of palm strikes? Remember, this is made from Netero's aura and he can repair it at will. Even as you destroy the hands they'd quickly reform, and Netero's capable of exchanging hundreds of thousands of blows with a guy who could destroy his hands, so he wouldn't be tiring out any time soon.

The construct, in this case, would also take up your entire field of view with its attacks, given its massive size. Your attacks are being countered, teleported, redirected, or blocked.

Remember: This is MASSIVE area of effect. Explosions, acid, wind attacks, piercing, slashing, lightning, and a barrage of magically enchanted adamantium daggers. It's no small task trying to survive this.

Over and above this, Jarlaxle can wall your team in with his wand if he'd like.

Many of which you can't do at the same time. Like Jarlaxle using two kinds of wands and his bracers, Sesshomaru attacking with both hands individually despite both attacks you showed need him to do full body swings, or Seras apparently dropping explosives at the same time she "blitzes" my team.

See, Alita can do a lot of things -- heck, she could presumably use her drones at the same time she's doing these plasma attacks, but I'm not presumptive. I don't assume half your team is dead before I move on to other attacks. The best part is, I countered your entire multifaceted approach without sacrificing the logistics of my team using their abilities -- Netero's construct is all he works with and its massive scale would greatly get in the way. Alita straight up counters Ogami as best as anyone in this tournament could imagine, and I've outright shown Blink teleporting multiple things at the same time.

The funny part is, I didn't even address what Mr. Terrific does.

After giving away the T-masks to my team, he'd have 3 spheres left. Your team jumps out of the sky and there's this giant ruckus as my other three members, with their massively superhuman reaction speeds, react to a "surprise" attack that my entire team is aware of the possibility.

What's Terrific gonna do? Play it nice and sit back and watch?

Nah, that'd be lame. Chances are he'd smash your team with a gravity field:

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Wreck them all with a blast that destroys futuristic tanks:

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Or use a forcefield to block some of your less forceful attacks that more rely on nasty effects, like goop or acid, that need to touch my team before they really harm them:

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Oh, that's right, he can do all three at once because each T-Sphere is capable of doing this individually (actually he just puts the forcefield up with a hand, so maybe he can do that with his T-Suit. Who knows!).

Alita protects my team from heat and turns it back onto your team, Blink and Terrific protect my team from basic projectiles, Netero completely obstructs your view and smashes your effectively prone team out of the sky, and Alita and Netero can enact as soon as your team exists in the area thanks to their supernatural abilities.

Combine all of this with the fact that my team should be far more durable than yours thanks to a fourway vibranium perk, and far more knowledgeable about what counters what thanks to full knowledge, and I think your plan gets turned around. See, your team has no clue that Alita can do what she does because Gear Up is, clearly, not something she standardly has. They should also have no clue about my team's supernatural ability to sense in all directions, so they couldn't possibly know that Netero's En and Alita's Chi would counter any premise of surprising my team. You had to use your perks to keep your team in line so that their arrogance wouldn't get the best of them, while I used it to give my team in battle advantages. In a straight up fight I think my team has the clear advantage.

The rest of your post is about fighting Mr_I's team and assumes you beat mine with relatively few losses that can be simply healed off. I'll take exception to that idea and say my team is much more dangerous than yours.

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#45 Edited by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Sorry, lol I realized I tagged you about two minutes after I did.

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#48 Posted by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

I see a lot about Blink except for how she survives. At 1,500 degrees Celsius, her body would instantly vaporize the second he arrived.

As for defending Jarlaxle against firebugs. I doubt my team is going to ignore them. It's not like these things are randomly going to appear out of nowhere on my team's heads, and my team is going to stand there and wait for something to happen. Ogami can instantly incinerate them before they explode, Seras can destroy them with a swipe of her hand, Sesshomaru can cut them down with his fingers in an instant, and Jarlaxle can just move out of the way and destroy them with daggers. Adamantium daggers, which against a dragon (which they weren't adamantium in that scan) whose hide is tougher than steel they were able to penetrate.

I've provided much more than Ogami's heat wave as to my initial assault. Your team DOES NOT have the cooperating team perk. Even my team, with the perk, I am using tactics that all of my team members have used in the past on multiple occasions. To assume a team that is thrown together, even when working towards a common goal, is instantly going to get along and execute maneuvers with each other with absolute precision seems ridiculous. There's going to be conflict, not much, but enough to put a huge difference in the time it takes my team to come up with and execute a plan, and your team to come up and execute a plan.

Blink is just going randomly teleport everyone away for no reason and with no warning, then Alita is instantly going to command Blink teleports her firefly drones off elsewhere, while the rest of your team starts erecting barriers and shields. Over and above this, they all decide to just abandon the fight that readily presents itself from Mr_Ingenuity's team, because your entire team consists of characters who run away from their battles. Isaac, Mr. T, and Alita we're to assume haven't charged into battle before Blink comes up with her run away tactic, even when they have full knowledge on the weaknesses of their opponents and have the numbers advantage (remember, you're only being confronted by 1 guy, while 2 shoot off attacks in every direction, and 1 charges towards my team).

This isn't exactly a no-brainer strategy your team is pulling off here. Your team is supposed to execute plans faster than mine, because they have no conflicting personalities, none of them have taken charge as leader, and they all instantly know how to use each other's powers in succession with one another to their full potential. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. If you wanted a team that coordinated with no conflicts and worked as a well-oiled machine, you should have taken the perk for it. But you chose full knowledge, and now assume your team operates as if it has the perk.

Jarlaxle, in the past, has always listened to the advice of his subordinates, which I see him doing here with Seras. Pip not only used the AoE tactic against vampires, but also told Seras to use it against the Captain. Run away and come back to fight later is a common tactic in the underdark. It's centuries old and he's used it several times throughout the book series I've read. Even against the lich (the Stone Wall tactic) in the scans I provided, he used a version of that tactic.

I'm basing my strategy off of tactics used multiple times the past, and with the perk my team should be able to execute them lightning fast. It's not going to take long for my team to run out of a room, and set up a trap that magically seals itself to a wall by tapping it, and activates with a two word command. My team is also not going to stand around when these firefly things appear, and I see nothing to suggest they blow up in under a second.

As for Ogami's Heat

Beelzebul may only put out 1500 Celsius (actually, much higher than that, as he INSTANTLY melted the steel that was only 2 feet from his face), but Satan's blue flame INCINERATES several tons of steel instantly. Not melt, vaporizes, turns it to nothing but ash.

Brief description of Satan's Blaze, and it's power

Here it is, incinerating several tons of steel instantly.

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His Reaction Time

I doubt Ogami is going to stand idly by while things randomly teleport on top of my group. And with his reaction time I don't see why he couldn't incinerate these things as they appear.

In this scan, someone launches their attack at him, and when it's only a meter or two from his face, he has a casual conversation, summons a couple weapons, and dispatches the attack. So his reflexes are pretty ridiculous.

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Blocking Bullets with his hand

With only his left hand, he's blocking bullets in front of him, and that guy is at best 2 meters from him.

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Later in the Manga

Repeats this feat, but this time he's much more skilled. Blocking Machine gun fire after it's been fired with his left hand only, and this is from multiple sources.

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Alita

Again, if she can control heat, that's fine, I've already provided a scan of him freezing someone with his attack.

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Sesshomaru's Tracking

Again, your keep assuming your team can execute everything instantaneously, something I'm not convinced, at all, they can do. It shouldn't take more than about 30 seconds for it to ventilate some of your team's particles around the building. And no, that's not an exaggeration, air travels faster than people think, a gas expands to cover as much space as possible by nature.

Over and above this he still has his enhanced hearing to track your team with, in Grand Central Station which is essentially one giant echo chamber!

@mr_ingenuity As for your team, you haven't responded yet.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#49 Edited by Dredeuced (6441 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

I see a lot about Blink except for how she survives. At 1,500 degrees Celsius, her body would instantly vaporize the second he arrived.

Because heat, like any other form of energy of all time, takes time to radiate out from its source. Alita contained a giant spherical ball of 100,000 C heat without letting the slightest bit leak out to harm her or her surroundings.

You're committing a fallacy to assume that, as soon as he steps out of the gate, the entire area is 1500 degrees celsius. That's not how heat or his own attacks work by everything you've shown me -- his attacks all come from him and Alita should be more than capable of redirecting them.

As for defending Jarlaxle against firebugs. I doubt my team is going to ignore them. It's not like these things are randomly going to appear out of nowhere on my team's heads, and my team is going to stand there and wait for something to happen.

This is not what I said. I said they appear then activate. There's no time to wait around. You're once again misrepresenting the situation. Jarlaxle should also be unaware that they're heat based attacks so your original counter -- that he uses magic to defend himself -- is nullified by lack of knowledge. In the feat you provided me he literally had to take a guess based on his opponent's personality, of all things.

Ogami can instantly incinerate them before they explode,

No he can't. He wouldn't know they were there nor what they do nor that they had appeared next to his teammates, either. Also, these things ARE made to burn for 5 seconds in a 15,000C plasma field before burning away. I don't think Ogami reaches 15,000 degrees Celsius that Alita's plasma does, does it? Why would he even be able to burn them away if he were somehow aware of what was going on?

Seras can destroy them with a swipe of her hand, Sesshomaru can cut them down with his fingers in an instant, and Jarlaxle can just move out of the way and destroy them with daggers. Adamantium daggers, which against a dragon (which they weren't adamantium in that scan) whose hide is tougher than steel they were able to penetrate.

Once again, if they knew they were coming, sure. They do not. They have no clue that a plasma flare is about to detonate from the back of her head until it already happens -- if they had some sort of preternatural sense of their surroundings like Netero or Alita then they might have a shot to know it was coming. I specifically said in my address to Mr. Ingenuity that they were being teleported right on top of the targets where they couldn't be seen.

I've provided much more than Ogami's heat wave as to my initial assault. Your team DOES NOT have the cooperating team perk. Even my team, with the perk, I am using tactics that all of my team members have used in the past on multiple occasions. To assume a team that is thrown together, even when working towards a common goal, is instantly going to get along and execute maneuvers with each other with absolute precision seems ridiculous. There's going to be conflict, not much, but enough to put a huge difference in the time it takes my team to come up with and execute a plan, and your team to come up and execute a plan.

Except for the part where I have a lot more time than you do to come up with the idea because my team didn't have to spend their time running away and setting up traps and blockades to prevent them from following -- this is because of teleportation's superiority to running.

Not to mention it seems you have forgotten the scenario as posted by @sovereign91001 :

Objective: Your team's mothebox (not a useable piece of equipment) will open another boomtube in three hours to your next location, you must be ready to leave in the time limit. Your objective for this round is simple: Be the last team standing.

Our teams had 3 hours to reconcile differences at the end of the last match -- AND the last match happened. Do you know what happened in my last match? I'll link you if you don't remember:

Dredeuced vs Veitha It's in my third post, if you doubt me.

Alita and Blink have ALREADY executed the teleporting drones strategy to win my last fight on Treasure Island vs Veitha's team. You're creating an obstacle of teamwork that has no reason to exist considering they've already used the tactic and have had 3 hours of discussion after the fight to come to terms with each other. There's no personality conflicts on my team that 3 hours couldn't sort out -- Terrific gets to call shots because of his intelligence and his T-Masks being the comlink. Alita is used to taking orders from Tiphares(she was even best friends with Lou Collins, her operator), Netero is a grade A team player considering he teamed up with his greatest rival (Zeno Zolydck) in the Chimera Ant invasion with nothing but a smile on his face. Blink has only ever worked with teams and is also used to taking orders from, say, Sabretooth.

No one on my team is like Sesshomaru -- arrogant beyond recompense with a habit of taking on things solo. Not to mention mega-racist (speciesist? whatever, he thinks non-demons suck)

So yeah, I think your idea of my team, who has already worked together to complete a goal and had 3 hours to chat about it afterwards, having conflicting problems is wrong. It's not my fault your team was too dysfunctional and needed a perk to overcome that issue. Mine's not.

Blink is just going randomly teleport everyone away for no reason and with no warning, then Alita is instantly going to command Blink teleports her firefly drones off elsewhere, while the rest of your team starts erecting barriers and shields. Over and above this, they all decide to just abandon the fight that readily presents itself from Mr_Ingenuity's team, because your entire team consists of characters who run away from their battles. Isaac, Mr. T, and Alita we're to assume haven't charged into battle before Blink comes up with her run away tactic, even when they have full knowledge on the weaknesses of their opponents and have the numbers advantage (remember, you're only being confronted by 1 guy, while 2 shoot off attacks in every direction, and 1 charges towards my team).

Yeah, they do. I've specifically shown you Alita retreating from superior forces before, I've already explained why Blink should be more than willing to listen to Terrific, and Netero is exceedingly patient.

And as I said, they don't get much of a choice. Blink CAN teleport them against their will, but that's not even an issue. You're trying to punish me too hard for playing it smart. No one on my team is dumb enough to try to fight what looks like, at the outset, a 8v4.

I also didn't say blink comes up with it. I said Terrific did -- he tells Blink to teleport them out of there as far as they can go. You know why? Because Terrific is a super genius with the benefit of full knowledge. My entire team does have full knowledge and, therefore, should be well aware of how deadly Horohoro and Rei Ogami are -- not to mention the rest of your two teams. My team's teleporting before anyone even decides to shoot -- remember, I did make the first post and my first move was to teleport to safety to think up some counters, given our team knows your weaknesses.

Alita -- or heck, Terrific could -- is gonna prompt Blink to do their strategy again, this time with even more dangerous drones, because your teams seem far more dangerous than my previous opponent. Alita doesn't even have to do anything besides let the fireflies go. From there on it's Blink teleporting them and them going off as soon as they teleport.

This isn't exactly a no-brainer strategy your team is pulling off here. Your team is supposed to execute plans faster than mine, because they have no conflicting personalities, none of them have taken charge as leader, and they all instantly know how to use each other's powers in succession with one another to their full potential. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. If you wanted a team that coordinated with no conflicts and worked as a well-oiled machine, you should have taken the perk for it. But you chose full knowledge, and now assume your team operates as if it has the perk.

You're right. If my team didn't already have a successful mission under their belt and 3 hours to shoot the breeze before the fight, and if they actually had conflicting personalities, my idea might not work.

But none of that applies. Sovereign told us teamwork matters in this tournament. You bucked that trend when you created your team, I didn't. It's not like I added a homicidal maniac or a loner to my team -- every single member of my team has worked with bigger and greater organizations than them. Your team would probably work pretty well together if you swapped Sesshomaru out for someone else -- he's the only reason you needed the teamwork perk. Why should my team have the same standard applied to it that yours does? Our teams are different

Also, I want to point out, you keep telling me "your team knows all of the weaknesses! Why aren't they exploiting them?" My teleport strategy IS exploiting your weaknesses. And hell, why aren't I exploiting your team's weaknesses directly? Well in your own PM to me, here's your stated weaknesses:

"Ogami's Left Arm - If removed, it will temporarily kill him. At least until his arm flames back to life. However, he's down for a good 5-10 minutes before that happens.

[Sesshomaru] None - Sesshomaru is susceptible to attacks, but he does not have anything that could be defined as a "weakness".

Jarlaxle: None given

Seras:

Stake through the heart - This does not guarentee a kill, but it can kill a vampire. If they are capable of regenerating, or somehow negating the damage, they can survive an attack like this. However, it is a method of killing them.

Decapitation - Cutting off a vampire's head will kill it.

Holy and Anti-Vampire Weaponry - Can harm a vampire, and cause extra damage "

So that's 2 people with zero exploitable weaknesses, one person whose weakness is cutting off his arm...which would require my team blitzing into, by your own words, omnidirectional 1500C temperatures, which would kill everyone but Alita. Also, dismemberment is everyone's weakness except, like, regenerators. Seras, who has one weakness no one on my team can exploit -- magical and holy weakness, and two weaknesses that are the same weakness everyone in the world has -- getting their head cut off or stabbed through the heart.

So yeah, that's 4 people who don't actually have weaknesses to exploit or that I can actively exploit. Only Alita can truly counter Rei via heat control(and I wouldn't call that a weakness, merely a beneficial interaction of skillsets) and Netero would have a shot if he could keep his distance and strike with his construct.

I acted on the information you gave me that full knowledge gives. Your team and Mr_I's team are very dangerous. Why take unnecessary risks?

Jarlaxle, in the past, has always listened to the advice of his subordinates, which I see him doing here with Seras. Pip not only used the AoE tactic against vampires, but also told Seras to use it against the Captain. Run away and come back to fight later is a common tactic in the underdark. It's centuries old and he's used it several times throughout the book series I've read. Even against the lich (the Stone Wall tactic) in the scans I provided, he used a version of that tactic.

Yeah, and my team has done everything I've said they do in my last battle, which is applicable to this situation. They all know the drill with Blink's teleporting, Terrific's T-Masks, and Alita's drones. You're trying too hard to say I can't use my strategy -- possibly because it's a good one, huh?

I'm basing my strategy off of tactics used multiple times the past, and with the perk my team should be able to execute them lightning fast. It's not going to take long for my team to run out of a room, and set up a trap that magically seals itself to a wall by tapping it, and activates with a two word command. My team is also not going to stand around when these firefly things appear, and I see nothing to suggest they blow up in under a second.

I can't say I've done it multiple times in the past, but one fight with a debriefing afterwards should remove anything resembling unfamiliarity.

As for Ogami's Heat

Beelzebul may only put out 1500 Celsius (actually, much higher than that, as he INSTANTLY melted the steel that was only 2 feet from his face), but Satan's blue flame INCINERATES several tons of steel instantly. Not melt, vaporizes, turns it to nothing but ash.

Brief description of Satan's Blaze, and it's power

Here it is, incinerating several tons of steel instantly.

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The boiling point of steel (well, iron, which going past the melting point would reduce it to) is 2700~ish degrees celsius. Alita's plasma burners naturally go at 15,000 Celsius and I've shown you her containing and overpowering someone much stronger than her who was producing a 100,000+ Celsius plasma wave with her own control and her vibration powers. Not even close. You've even said in previous threads that Ogami's flames have a minor weakness in that they produce no outright physical force -- this is another way in which Alita trumps Rei. Her attacks not only have physical impact behind them, but she can use them as a medium to transfer quite deadly vibrations that cause brain ruptures.

His Reaction Time

I doubt Ogami is going to stand idly by while things randomly teleport on top of my group. And with his reaction time I don't see why he couldn't incinerate these things as they appear.

In this scan, someone launches their attack at him, and when it's only a meter or two from his face, he has a casual conversation, summons a couple weapons, and dispatches the attack. So his reflexes are pretty ridiculous.

Blocking Bullets with his hand

With only his left hand, he's blocking bullets in front of him, and that guy is at best 2 meters from him.

Later in the Manga

Repeats this feat, but this time he's much more skilled. Blocking Machine gun fire after it's been fired with his left hand only, and this is from multiple sources.

It is not a matter of reaction time. It is a matter of awareness. This has already been addressed. They're also not teleporting in "randomly" -- don't diminish one of the cruxes of the strategy. They're teleporting in very specifically where you'd have trouble seeing them while your team is busy plotting and handing out rings to each other and determining locations. Your team has limited knowledge of what mine is capable of and I'd imagine they'd be a little distracted while they set up this strategy you yourself are talking about. My team has the benefit of full knowledge to wade through any difficulties of discussing counters and shouldn't have to explain to each other what they think will work -- they know what will work.

Alita

Again, if she can control heat, that's fine, I've already provided a scan of him freezing someone with his attack.

Question. Can he do both of these attacks at once? Because you've made it pretty clear that your goal is to attempt to vaporize my team by having him come out of the dimension door and spread his heat. Can he simultaneously try to spread his heat and remove the heat from an area like this attack shows? This would be like me saying Alita is using her plasma control while also shooting your team with her guns -- of course she isn't, she's never shown the ability to use her plasma abilities while firing a gun at the same time. If he's changing moves mid fall without even realizing what Alita's doing that's pretty impressive. Still doesn't stop her from turning his own heat on him and destroying him with a Herza Haeon channeled through her plasma which destroyed a big ass robot. If he comes out of the gate shooting a big ol ice dragon then Alita wouldn't be preoccupied with redirecting his heat.

You also said he was using Satan's Blaze. Three attacks at once!

Maybe if he had foreknowledge that Alita can do what she's doing with her plasma control he'd use the freezing attack but, ah, let me use your argument -- You didn't get that perk! :D

Again, your keep assuming your team can execute everything instantaneously, something I'm not convinced, at all, they can do. It shouldn't take more than about 30 seconds for it to ventilate some of your team's particles around the building. And no, that's not an exaggeration, air travels faster than people think, a gas expands to cover as much space as possible by nature

I don't assume my team can execute anything instantaneously -- just faster than your team thanks to teleportation cutting down on escape time and full knowledge cutting down on the time it takes to strategize counters, as well as my team's pre-existent familiarity with the strategy I'm using.

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#50 Edited by Floopay (10853 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

You're still very focused on Ogami, he's not the only one dropping on your team. If Ogami comes it won't take more than a moment for his heat to spread, and considering my team is convered in darkness, it's hard to believe your team will know exactly what he'll be up to.

As for him and Alita, if Alita starts to contain his fire, then hes, I see him actually switching techniques. He's not an idiot, if an attack is ineffective I doubt he's going to keep trying to use it.

What protects your team against Sesshomaru's Acid, AND Sesshomaru's cutting attacks? Both of which have a wide area of effect, and can be used at a medium distance. I've already shown him cutting while throwing out acid in his first fight with Inuyasha. In his later fights he couldn't because he only had one arm, but he's back to two arms since near the end of the manga.

What's to protect your team against getting stuck to something and being unable to move because of Jarlaxle's Wand? Or protect them against fireballs?

And finally, what's your team's defense against Seras's massive piercing attacks with, again, a huge area of effect?

My team can do more than one thing at once. All of your counters seem to be dependent on the idea of all this happening one at a time. From what I'm seeing, Alita instantly block Ogami's fire, despite the fact that it's completely invisible, while simultaneously dodging Jarlaxle's wands, while simultaneously dodging Sesshomaru's acid attacks and wind attacks. At the same time Blink is redirecting any daggers Jarlaxle has thrown, while dodging Seras's attacks, while dodging Sesshomaru's attacks, while dodging and redirecting any daggers from Jarlaxle. Mr. T, and Isaac do the exact same thing. And your team executes all this with perfect precision while they are covered in a globe of darkness, with the only light they see coming from Jarlaxle's explosions, and Ogami if he uses any of his other attacks.

Is that about right?

And what is to stop one of your team members from instantly dying with Seras Victoria's Black Hole gun? That's 1 team member being BFR'd and turning this into a 4 vs. 3 battle.

My team plotting

My team is still in a combat situation, and with Mr_Ingenuity blowing everything up and trying to take the building down, Ogami is in charge of incinerating any debris that could fall on my team. This isn't a new tactic either, I stated this right after his post. So yes, my team will no be staring at each other like idiots and neglecting their environment while they casually sit back and discuss strategies. They will be in a combat situation thinking tactically, and quickly, and determining the best way to attack. If some fireflies randomly appear in, Ogami will destroy them, as he's on lookout to make sure my team is safe.

My team won't be taking anyone lightly. Drow society is one based off of necessity and survival. Above all else, my team will be looking to do just that, survive. They are not going to regard your team and Mr_I's team as non-factors and take their time to plot and assume they are safe. Even in the fight with Seras and the Captain, the strategy is decided while fighting, and while defending herself. With Jarlaxle against the lich, he comes up with the strategy on the fly while defending himself against a lich, an endless horde of gargoyles, and some several thousand pound iron constructions. When fighting waves of acid spitting flying snake monster (no idea what they are other than that), he comes up with his strategies while fighting. When Ogami decides to melt away Toki's attacks, he comes up with the tactic on the fly while defending himself.

My team can, and has, come up with tactics on the fly, and they don't have to stop defending themselves to do so. With a collapsing building (thanks to Mr_Ingenuity), and being in a combat situation, I doubt they're going to stop, sit, and discuss an in depth strategy and ignore their environment. If they had time to do that I would use a more in depth strategy, but as is I'm using a list of tactics that have already been used.

Boiling Points

Boiling points are the point at which that starts to happen. If I poor water over a 212 degree pan, it wouldn't instantly vaporize (even assuming the pan didn't drop in temperature). It would take awhile. The point of my scan is that all of that was INSTANTLY incinerated. That's way above 2700 degrees Celsius.

Same with Beelzebul, steel was instantly brought to it's melting point.

My Strategy:

Over and above this my team can actually execute this one attack, and just flee right after. One huge wave of massive omni-directional attacks, which are almost guarenteed to kill one or two people, maybe even three with Seras's black hole cannon, and then just teleport right back out.

Seems ridiculous? Jarlaxle already used a tactic like this against a horde of gargoyles swooping in on him.

Used a similar tactic against the lich in the scan above.

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My team has many ways of taking this, just as I believe yours does.

However, I do believe my team has a huge advantage with the overwhelming amount of AoE and the amount of defenses my team can put up.

Jarlaxle against fire:


Okay, just so you are sure that Jarlaxle doesn't have any special protections for these following scans, here's some context:

Jarlaxle in his fight before Hephaestus

Jarlaxle denies any bonus protections from the powerful cleric, and only takes a very minor one from a dwarven druid.

Then he confronts the dragon, and drops his globes of darkness, etc. etc.

Then you can see their magical protections are dispelled from a magical dispel.

Then someone counters the dragon's breath and the group is split up

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Jarlaxle vs. Firebreath

This is just after this, Jarlaxle plays with the dragon for a bit (in a previously uploaded scan), then leads the dragon with him and lures it to his opponents. He drops a globe of darkness over his opponents, and then right as he dispels the first one, he drops another globe over the crystal shard, and stands in the tunnel as the dragon produces a breath of fire capable of causing stone to bubble (which seems very similar to fireflies which are used to burn tunnels into mining shafts...):
He then outruns the second wave from it's fiery breath.

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Jarlaxle's Speed and Reflexes

The reason I didn't take the Batman perk, is because Jarlaxle is already as fast if not faster than Batman. This is him throwing out 4 daggers before the first one hits (second time he has done this) in a small tower room (at the top of a small tower) against the lich.

Afterwards, he produces a globe of darkness on his opponent, and the lich casts out a ray (which will seek out a target, doesn't need to be aimed other than in the general direction of it's target), which is produced from the globe, and Jarlaxle swiftly moves out of it's way. And then watches as it disintegrates part of the stone wall behind him.

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Again, I think my team has the speed, reflexes, and tactical awareness to take this. Not to mention the raw power within each person, and a high amount of versatility.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay