You guys who are saying Goku wins have to understand that the powerscaling isn't from the anime as the movie version of ssj3 Goku would body EOS Gt characters and would give BoS Ssj God Goku somewhat of a challenge Goku just by powering up shook the afterlife.
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Janemba after adapting smacked this Goku.
There is no way Ssj4 Goku is winning this fight.
you guys are scaling Janemba to the anime version of Ssj3 Goku who is only Multi solar system level at best.
You’re nuts. Base Goku in GT was already as powerful as SSJ3 Buu saga Goku. SSJ4 Goku is overkill for Janemba.
Also, Goku references Buu in his fight against Janemba. He said nobody has taken me this far except for Buu. Buu exists in that timeline, so Goku wouldn’t be so much more powerful than his anime counterpart as you said.
Also, Goku powering up to SSJ3 in the anime/manga was felt throughout the realms as well. Gohan training with the Z sword was able to feel his father. Same as Buu was able to feel Gohan from worlds away.
"again movie 12 version/feats surpasses the manga/anime"
There is no difference of power in the OAV and the anime because the OAVs happen in the history of the anime. For example here, it's in the Buu period I think. But hey, DB GT is going on much later. So yes, SSJ4 Goku sprays Janemba.
You’re nuts. Base Goku in GT was already as powerful as SSJ3 Buu saga Goku. SSJ4 Goku is overkill for Janemba.
Dear God using anime scaling for a movie? Especially when feats in said movie eclipse the anime?
Also, Goku references Buu in his fight against Janemba. He said nobody has taken me this far except for Buu.
Irrelevant.
Also, Goku powering up to SSJ3 in the anime/manga was felt throughout the realms as well. Gohan training with the Z sword was able to feel his father. Same as Buu was able to feel Gohan from worlds away.
that's not shaking it though now is it? Even King Kai felt Frieza and Goku's battle on Namek and even before that he told Goku to stay away from first form Frieza sensing ki is vital in DragonBall again so moot point is moot.
"again movie 12 version/feats surpasses the manga/anime"
There is no difference of power in the OAV and the anime because the OAVs happen in the history of the anime. For example here, it's in the Buu period I think. But hey, DB GT is going on much later. So yes, SSJ4 Goku sprays Janemba.
Please don't tell me you inderectly said that Fusion reborn is cannon?
>Vegeta is dead
>There is no Buu
>Gohan is alive without the use of Mystic
>Goten and Trunks know the fusion dance while Goku is dead
etc.
Goku makes one statement about Buu, it doesn't make it cannon.
@skysanji: I accept your arguments, but there is no doubt that Goku SSJ4 beats Janemba without difficulty. And Gohan Buu >> Janemba.
Fair enough I'm just trying to make it a point not to scale to the anime cause I'm seeing a lot of "Ssj4 Goku is way stronger than ssj3 so he wins" type of comments.
But I stated why I think Janemba should stomp we should agree to disagree at this point.
for example Luffy can fight Toriko and Ssj Goku In the dream 9 special BUT I can't then say oh Anime Luffy can do the same since he did it in a special, it doesn't make sense.
You can’t just take valid arguments and say moot point and irrelevant.
SSJ4 Goku is legit overkill for Janemba.
Goku mentioning Buu is not irrelevant, it shows that Buu is still viewed as a very powerful opponent. Otherwise Goku wouldn’t have mentioned Buu at all.
And yes, you can only go by power scaling. Let’s say Movie 12 Goku is twice as powerful as EOS DBZ Goku (which is what you’re implying which is untrue), GT Goku in base is as strong as SSJ3 EOS Goku. Now count that PLUS 4 more SSJ transformations. This is a complete and utter mismatch.
I would love to know your arguments (because it interests me and it can make me change my mind) on why Janemba beats SSJ4 Goku. Especially that Janemba has no feats (just the one to hurt SSJ3 Goku, then get crushed by Gogeta). On the other hand, SSJ4 Goku has tons.
Then, I would also like to know why the Movie Character Level is (according to you) incredibly superior to the Anime and Manga. There is a source that indicates that in the movies, the character levels are higher?
You can’t just take valid arguments and say moot point and irrelevant.
how is your arguement valid, you compared sensing ki from world's away to Shaken the afterlife, sensing ki is vital in the DB universe and I even gave you an example of King Kai sensing Goku and Frieza's battle on Namek.
as for me saying your buu point is irrelevant, it is Goku mentioning Buu doesn't make Fusion Reborn cannon.
SSJ4 Goku is legit overkill for Janemba.
as you've yet to prove.
Goku mentioning Buu is not irrelevant, it shows that Buu is still viewed as a very powerful opponent. Otherwise Goku wouldn’t have mentioned Buu at all.
All that that shows is that in that timeline/dimension or whatever time the movie takes place Buu is powerful, that's all.
You can't take a movie/different Dimension Goku's statement and then use Anime versions it makes no sense.
And yes, you can only go by power scaling. Let’s say Movie 12 Goku is twice as powerful as EOS DBZ Goku (which is what you’re implying which is untrue), GT Goku in base is as strong as SSJ3 EOS Goku. Now count that PLUS 4 more SSJ transformations. This is a complete and utter mismatch.
I am going by powerscaling just not anime powerscaling since it's a movie who's feat far surpasses the anime and Gt
How is EOS Dbz Goku stronger than Movie 12 Goku I have yet to see you post a feat anowhere near shaking the afterlife from EOS Dbz Goku, still.
Gt Goku in Base is as strong as ANIME Ssj3 EOS Goku.
Why I have to keep reiterating that, only God knows.
I would love to know your arguments (because it interests me and it can make me change my mind) on why Janemba beats SSJ4 Goku. Especially that Janemba has no feats (just the one to hurt SSJ3 Goku, then get crushed by Gogeta). On the other hand, SSJ4 Goku has tons.
I pretty much went over it on post #19
but I'll go over it again.
Ssj3 Goku just by powering up shook the afterlife and Janemba after adapting stomped this Goku.
this cannot be scaled to the anime for obvious reasons.
Also feats from Ssj4 Goku that's anywhere near Movie Ssj3 Goku's feat?
Then, I would also like to know why the Movie Character Level is (according to you) incredibly superior to the Anime and Manga. There is a source that indicates that in the movies, the character levels are higher?
Tell me what anime or manga feat is greater than shaking the afterlife?
There is none Movie ssj3 Goku would stomp all of Z and Gt that answers your question
It's a hard pill to swallow but Movie ssj3 Goku and Janemba would give BoS Ssj God Goku a halfway decent fight.
You guys who are saying Goku wins have to understand that the powerscaling isn't from the anime as the movie version of ssj3 Goku would body EOS Gt characters and would give BoS Ssj God Goku somewhat of a challenge Goku just by powering up shook the afterlife.
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Janemba after adapting smacked this Goku.
There is no way Ssj4 Goku is winning this fight.
you guys are scaling Janemba to the anime version of Ssj3 Goku who is only Multi solar system level at best.
Shaking something is way different from destroying something. Like wayyyyyy different. It proves nothing. Also GT goku did this same feat in base. Lol @ him being able to give BOG goku a fight, who was stated to be able to destroy the dbs macrocosm by just fighting with beerus. The macrocosm containing heaven, hell, and our universe.
"Shaking something is way different from destroying something.Like wayyyyyy different."
Strawman.
I never implied he destroyed it.
It proves nothing.
It proves Goku by powering up to Ssj3 has casual multi galaxy level of Dc.
"Also GT goku did this same feat in base."
scans? Don't bother it never happened....
Lol @ him being able to give BOG goku a fight, who was stated to be able to destroy the dbs macrocosm by just fighting with beerus. The macrocosm containing heaven, hell, and our universe."
Said multiple times a Halfway decent fight and or somewhat of a challenge in other words think of Vegeta ssj2(Bulma getting slapped) vs Beerus
@joshua755: As said before, the movies have different power levels from the anime. Janemba was literally warping the entire universe in a weaker form without even trying as soon as he appeared. The only thing in the anime that comes close to that was when Buu was angry and was like ripping apart dimensions and was eventually going to destroy the universe. While I do think that ss4 Goku scales to that level, the keyword about that feat is EVENTUALLY and not all at once unlike Janemba.
So tldr, Janemba has better feats and thus more powerful when taking into account the different power scaling in the movies.
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