Who would win in this fight when there speed durability is equalized?
So in the battle of skills who wins?
No kaioken or IT
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Who would win in this fight when there speed durability is equalized?
So in the battle of skills who wins?
No kaioken or IT
This is a much closer match up than the other ones. SSJ4 Gogeta might stand a chance at a stalemate or better, but Whis would stomp him for sure.
I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta 6/10 majority over Bills.
This is a much closer match up than the other ones. SSJ4 Gogeta might stand a chance at a stalemate or better, but Whis would stomp him for sure.
I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta 6/10 majority over Bills.
SS4 Goku and Vegeta alone would beat Bills and Whis. In the movie SS3 Goku i believe was 1% of Bills and Whis is 150% of Bills. GT Goku base is at least equal to the SS3 Goku that fought Bills. So that means a SS3 GT Goku would stomp them both at the same time let alone SS4.
@goobot: Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
You're a cute wittle troll with funny wittle math.
Also, Whis is much more than 150% of Bills. You're getting confused because Toriyma said he'd put SSJ God at a 6, Bills at a 10, and Whis at a 15. That doesn't mean that Whis is only 50% stronger than Bills.
@goobot: Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
You're a cute wittle troll with funny wittle math.
Also, Whis is much more than 150% of Bills. You're getting confused because Toriyma said he'd put SSJ God at a 6, Bills at a 10, and Whis at a 15. That doesn't mean that Whis is only 50% stronger than Bills.
LOL, compared to your what? Making things up with your opinion? Sorry but facts don't lie, you are the only troll.
@goobot: You're high if you think SSJ3 GT Goku > Bills and Whis combined.
@kasumi_geist: Why? It's not like this doesn't happen after every saga, base Goku couldn't touch Frieza yet during buu he would blow him to pieces as base. You are just blind.
@goobot: Your math doesn't make sense, and is solely based on the fact that GT Goku > end of Z Goku. You haven't given an actual power level of Whis or Bills to compare that too, and you're only speculating that GT Goku is more powerful than them (he's not...at all).
Toriyama stated that Bills is the strongest villain in ALL of Dragon Ball (not just Z, the whole metafranchise). Meaning Bills > Omega Shenron > SSJ4 Goku > SSJ3 GT Goku.
But we could do powerscaling and all that BS if you really want...
@goobot: Your math doesn't make sense, and is solely based on the fact that GT Goku > end of Z Goku. You haven't given an actual power level of Whis or Bills to compare that too, and you're only speculating that GT Goku is more powerful than them (he's not...at all).
Toriyama stated that Bills is the strongest villain in ALL of Dragon Ball (not just Z, the whole metafranchise). Meaning Bills > Omega Shenron > SSJ4 Goku > SSJ3 GT Goku.
But we could do powerscaling and all that BS if you really want...
LOL no. I said base GT Goku = SS3 Z Goku, Z Goku is the common factor which is why my math is fine. And GT is non-cannon which is why that is true though obviously since this thread includes it it is a what if scenario.
@goobot: Except that doesn't state how powerful Whis or Bills is! You need two variables to complete a math problem.
If I say GT Vegeta > Z Vegeta...that doesn't mean that he could beat Bills or Whis. It's just a factual statement. Lets say GT Goku is represented by 100. Since you haven't preposed how strong Bills or Whis is, they are represented by X (the unknown). Therefore you are saying 100 > X, when we don't know that to be true at all.
Besides, GT was canon until BoG relegated it to "one possible future" as Toriyama put it.
@marshall_long: Haha! Yeah that's helpful to this discussion...
...not to mention completely inaccurate.
@kasumi_geist: I said Whis is 150% Bills, and SS3 Goku 1% Bills.
@goobot: Which is pure speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that 80% Bills >>> SSJ God which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3.
@kasumi_geist: I find it absolutely hilarious that you use what Toriyama said as evidence but when i use what he said it is speculation. You should become an news reporter because you are honestly a joke XD
@goobot: In-universe Goku (not just Toriyama) said GT = Z SSJ3, he trained like crazy. I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the fact that that means SSJ3 GT Goku stomps both Bills and Whis at the same time. Because that's pure herp derp, based on 0 evidence.
@kasumi_geist: The evidence is 1st grade math which i showed you multi-able times. Sorry you can't see that but i already see that all you are going to do is turn this conversation into a damn circle with me repeating myself 10 times, so I'm out.
Gt goku= 1% Bills, Gt SS goku = 50%, GT SS2 goku= 100%, Gt SS3 goku= 400%, in DBZ it has been seen many times that having just 2X power lets you destroy your opponent. Goku is 4X Bills and almost 3X Whis.
@goobot: Ah man, I'm crying with laughter.
1. SSJ3 Goku/GT base being 1% is pure speculation.
2. You need to learn how Super Saiyan works
3. Your math is all kinds of wonky
This is a much closer match up than the other ones. SSJ4 Gogeta might stand a chance at a stalemate or better, but Whis would stomp him for sure.
I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta 6/10 majority over Bills.
SS4 Goku and Vegeta alone would beat Bills and Whis. In the movie SS3 Goku i believe was 1% of Bills and Whis is 150% of Bills. GT Goku base is at least equal to the SS3 Goku that fought Bills. So that means a SS3 GT Goku would stomp them both at the same time let alone SS4.
@kasumi_geist: The evidence is 1st grade math which i showed you multi-able times. Sorry you can't see that but i already see that all you are going to do is turn this conversation into a damn circle with me repeating myself 10 times, so I'm out.
Gt goku= 1% Bills, Gt SS goku = 50%, GT SS2 goku= 100%, Gt SS3 goku= 400%, in DBZ it has been seen many times that having just 2X power lets you destroy your opponent. Goku is 4X Bills and almost 3X Whis.
@easternwind@ssjdarthplagueis@brolytard1337@nheritor@blade_r@ssj_god@sheenlantern@jaken7@retconcrisis@flashback0180@deaditegonzo@iragexcudder@kingant27@pope052@nukea6@beaconofstrength@omegashenron@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@wolverine08@deathstrokergeist Calling anyone I can think of posting in DBZ threads before. You have to see this! It's hilarious...I think he might actually be serious.
@kasumi_geist: GT vs DBZ battles are......well you should know.
No comment on this battle.
@kasumi_geist: GT vs DBZ battles are......well you should know.
No comment on this battle.
I couldn't care less about this battle anymore honestly, I just want to know what you guys think of @goobot claiming that SSJ3 GT Goku would stompbothWhis and Bills at the same time.
This is a much closer match up than the other ones. SSJ4 Gogeta might stand a chance at a stalemate or better, but Whis would stomp him for sure.
I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta 6/10 majority over Bills.
SS4 Goku and Vegeta alone would beat Bills and Whis. In the movie SS3 Goku i believe was 1% of Bills and Whis is 150% of Bills. GT Goku base is at least equal to the SS3 Goku that fought Bills. So that means a SS3 GT Goku would stomp them both at the same time let alone SS4.
@kasumi_geist: The evidence is 1st grade math which i showed you multi-able times. Sorry you can't see that but i already see that all you are going to do is turn this conversation into a damn circle with me repeating myself 10 times, so I'm out.
Gt goku= 1% Bills, Gt SS goku = 50%, GT SS2 goku= 100%, Gt SS3 goku= 400%, in DBZ it has been seen many times that having just 2X power lets you destroy your opponent. Goku is 4X Bills and almost 3X Whis.
@easternwind@ssjdarthplagueis@brolytard1337@nheritor@blade_r@ssj_god@sheenlantern@jaken7@retconcrisis@flashback0180@deaditegonzo@iragexcudder@kingant27@pope052@nukea6@beaconofstrength@omegashenron@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@wolverine08@deathstrokergeist Calling anyone I can think of posting in DBZ threads before. You have to see this! It's hilarious...I think he might actually be serious.
YAY i feel special. but also ashamed that someone might actually be paying atention to what I say ! haha. Sorry if I ever said something stupid.
anyway... Stomping both is a ... bold claim.
@easternwind: Well seeing as how SSJ God vs. SSJ4 Goku is a very popular and heated debate.
And Bills >>> SSJ God is a fact.
Saying that Bills and Whis both being stomped by SSJ3 GT Goku is a little more than just a bold claim. Lol.
@kasumi_geist: Except SS god was beat in Z and not GT... I mean is a sense of time really hard to grasp?
@goobot: I'm sorry, what comment are you referring to?
@kasumi_geist: Yours, the one right above it.
This is a much closer match up than the other ones. SSJ4 Gogeta might stand a chance at a stalemate or better, but Whis would stomp him for sure.
I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta 6/10 majority over Bills.
SS4 Goku and Vegeta alone would beat Bills and Whis. In the movie SS3 Goku i believe was 1% of Bills and Whis is 150% of Bills. GT Goku base is at least equal to the SS3 Goku that fought Bills. So that means a SS3 GT Goku would stomp them both at the same time let alone SS4.
@kasumi_geist: The evidence is 1st grade math which i showed you multi-able times. Sorry you can't see that but i already see that all you are going to do is turn this conversation into a damn circle with me repeating myself 10 times, so I'm out.
Gt goku= 1% Bills, Gt SS goku = 50%, GT SS2 goku= 100%, Gt SS3 goku= 400%, in DBZ it has been seen many times that having just 2X power lets you destroy your opponent. Goku is 4X Bills and almost 3X Whis.
@easternwind@ssjdarthplagueis@brolytard1337@nheritor@blade_r@ssj_god@sheenlantern@jaken7@retconcrisis@flashback0180@deaditegonzo@iragexcudder@kingant27@pope052@nukea6@beaconofstrength@omegashenron@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@wolverine08@deathstrokergeist Calling anyone I can think of posting in DBZ threads before. You have to see this! It's hilarious...I think he might actually be serious.
Lmao I don't like singling people out but damn haha I don't know what to say ive been sitting here trying to figure out how he came up with that but I don't see how he did without speculation
@kasumi_geist: noooo i said
a ".....bold" claim ,
completely different ;)
Also this is the second time I was the first on a callout list I must have an easy to rember name.
@kasumi_geist: Except SS god was beat in Z and not GT... I mean is a sense of time really hard to grasp?
Do we know for sure when each took place? Gt was made before BOG was a thing, and BOG was made after GT
What is your proof for the 1% of billis = SSJ3 Z claim?
Because it actually seems hard to deny.
It seems that if
Then the conclusion cannot be wrong, as it follows from the premise.
@goobot: Okay? My point was that SSJ God (who is weaker than Bills by a large margin) vs. SSJ4 Goku is a very heated, back-and-forth debate with great points on both sides.
So what you said was incredibly bold.
@kasumi_geist: I don't know what's more funny, this or the crazy claims on why the Boss would eat Lady Shiva alive.
@kasumi_geist: Except SS god was beat in Z and not GT... I mean is a sense of time really hard to grasp?
I understand that and ive pondered over it before but I cant ignore that BOTG came out way after GT, if SSJG existed when GT came out im sure it would have been included at some point. While I don't 100% agree I do understand where you're coming from, for example, since Goku said Baby Vegeta was the strongest power he had ever felt up until that point and GT technically happens after BOTG & Z then Baby Vegeta should be above Bills since Bills was in BOTG/Z and goku had felt his power right? Is that the logic you're using here? I'm not bashing it im just asking.
@goobot: Okay? My point was that SSJ God (who is weaker than Bills by a large margin) vs. SSJ4 Goku is a very heated, back-and-forth debate with great points on both sides.
So what you said was incredibly bold.
Well SS4 is a 10X multiplier so SS god is much more powerful if it were used on the same person at the same time period.
@easternwind: BoG takes place before the last episode of Z (the one where Goku flies off with Uub). It takes place in between the defeat of Buu and the martial arts tournament with Uub. There was a big time skip between those episodes.
But yeah, I don't know where he's coming up with the other stuff.
@goobot: But Goku couldn't go SSJ God in GT, so that's more speculation and conjecture.
Except SS god was beat in Z and not GT... I mean is a sense of time really hard to grasp?
Do we know for sure when each took place? Gt was made before BOG was a thing, and BOG was made after GT
Yes, Pan was born and alive at the end of Z but wasn't in the movie.
@kasumi_geist: Thanks, I wasnt sure, I thought thats where they put it.
But if he is right about
SSJ3 goku = 1% billis
and
Willis = 150% billis.
and
SSJ3 = Base GT
then his conclusion through the multipliers , has merit. You have to attack one of the premises, to defeat the conclusion
I take it , from what Ive seen in the thread, that you dont buy the first 2
@blade_r: That would make sense except that BoG made it so that GT is just "one possible future" according to the creator Toriyama himself. So in that future, Goku never became SSJ God, and never met Bills. Saying Baby's the strongest he'd met at the time doesn't mean anything in regards to BoG.
@easternwind: Right. SSJ3 = 1% Bills is something he made up.
Whis = 150% Bills is an incorrect conclusion taken from a statement by Toriyama that he misremembered.
SSJ3 Z Goku = Base GT Goku is fact though.
@kasumi_geist: Alright, I just like to try to cut to the meat of arguements. Now its up to @goobot to show try to show why
SSJ3=1% billis
and
Willis = 150%
unless he has already, im not reading the thread again.
@easternwind: I'm assuming that he thought Whis = 150% Bills because Toriyama said if he had to put everyone on a level he'd put:
SSJ God - 6
Bills - 10
Whis - 15
But those are just made up levels stated during an off-hand comment. We don't know how much more powerful 1 level is over the other, or what those levels come out to in power.
@nukea6: But The Boss totally WOULD bea- I can't even finish it bwahahahaha!
She was BA in Snake Eater though.
@easternwind: @easternwind: Toriyama said that SSG Goku was a 6, Bills 10 and Whis 15. In the movie Bills said he used only 70% to beat SSG Goku so that is just logic.
I read on some site that Bills in the jap dub also said that he only was using few percent of his power when he beat Goku. This is really the only point that can be argued since i don't speak Jap, but all his replies about my math being wrong is just wow.
@blade_r: That would make sense except that BoG made it so that GT is just "one possible future" according to the creator Toriyama himself. So in that future, Goku never became SSJ God, and never met Bills. Saying Baby's the strongest he'd met at the time doesn't mean anything in regards to BoG.
Yeah I agree with that, I was just asking him if that is the logic he was using. but yeah since BOTG came out way after GT in confuses things, like you said it pretty much (IMO) makes GT just one possible future of what could have happened after Z. Idk im interested to see where this thread goes, its getting interesting lol
@goobot: You don't speak "Jap!?" That is INCREDIBLY offensive.
Anyways, read post #45 to see why you miscalculated based on the 6, 10, 15 levels.
@kasumi_geist: How is i don't speak Jap offensive? The abbreviation for english is eng, is that offensive? Are you honestly just trying to start a fight? Because thats all your post are saying. Post 45 means nothing because what Bills said in the movie matches it.
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